The typical transgender personality
As an interplay of false gender conditioning, intermixed with miswired neurology, it equates into an interestingly -somewhat- homogenous personality despite the extreme influences of factors.
Definitely there's much more diversity in a handful of transgender women visually than genetic women. But personality wise there's a degree of homogeneity?
Extreme honesty is one striking difference between the trans and general population.
There is no one typical "transgender personality" any more than there is one typical human personality.
Well this has to be the only forum I havent seen people fighting and calling words each other...
so I think that means something.
Anyway I believe that trans people are more kind , wise and accepting than the normal ones...
and not only trans generally people who have to go through that kind of inner search etc
I could be wrong.
I feel there's more introversion in the trans world. Not sure if that's hereditary or environmental.
@nikko
Introversion is a really common trait, considering that most trans people find successes in industries like engineering, IT, more socially isolated career pathways - and Lana Wachowski, fantasy film director - similar vein in a sense to those typical industries.
I feel there's oddly an under representation, in proportion to talent pool and population
In traditional arts - when you'd assume that to be something to be a large trans industry,
However art is extroverted and socially-based in a sense.
It makes sense it's environmental moreso than hereditary, but then I can't be so sure.
Though personalities differ, there do seem to be a lot of common traits, as this thread (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,151308.0.html) can attest to.
Quote from: BLZA on March 11, 2014, 08:19:03 AM
The typical transgender personality
As an interplay of false gender conditioning, intermixed with miswired neurology, it equates into an interestingly -somewhat- homogenous personality despite the extreme influences of factors.
Definitely there's much more diversity in a handful of transgender
women visually than genetic women. But personality wise there's a degree of homogeneity?
Extreme honesty is one striking difference between the trans and general population.
Ummm I personally don't like being described by someone -cis or trans- as being broken or malformed. And honestly how I was raised had very little to do with me being trans, I was always the gender I identify as, I just express it outwardly now and am taking medical steps to blend in and make my body as I wish it to be.
Also, genetic women also implies that everyone who appears male or female has the chromosomes of xy and xx respectively. There are men with xx chromosomes and women with xy chromosomes. The term that is most accurate would be "cisgender women".
"The trans"? What are we a collective like "the Borg" now? Lol :P
You mean to say "Trans people", its a common mistake. People think "transgender" is a noun when in fact it is an adjective.
I've seen a lot of diversity in trans and cis women...to categorize us all as "homogenous" would be like mixing every drink in your fridge together comparing them to the original drinks and trying to say "See they're basically all the same"...even through the blend of all of them doesn't quite match the others.
I have heard of sexual predators who are trans women, sociopaths, and people who are very broken because of how society as a whole treats us. But I've also met very happy trans women who are well to their core being. There is a huge spectrum of diversity.
I'm a trans women that uses the term genetic women rather than cis women because I find the term cis to be reminiscent of "cysts" and a bit shady. It's easy to use it online but definitely in real life when I call genetic women cis women they look a bit offended.
Well there's a forum, for trans people, and we're on it, as a collective, and in my observations I find shared traits and it strikes my curiosity and therefore I'm bringing it up - I find it bizarre that it's being misinterpreted so literally: That transgender people have a "typical" personality in a literal/defined sense.
Quote from: BLZA on March 11, 2014, 09:22:12 AM
I'm a trans women that uses the term genetic women rather than cis women because I find the term cis to be reminiscent of "cysts" and a bit shady. It's easy to use it online but definitely in real life when I call genetic women cis women they look a bit offended.
Well there's a forum, for trans people, and we're on it, as a collective, and in my observations I find shared traits and it strikes my curiosity and therefore I'm bringing it up - I find it bizarre that it's being misinterpreted so literally: That transgender people have a "typical" personality in a literal/defined sense.
"Cis" has no relation at all linguistically to "cyst".
Here is a cut and paste of the Wikipedia article for "Cisgender"
Cisgender has its origin in the Latin-derived prefix cis-, meaning "on this side of," which is an antonym for the Latin-derived prefix trans-, meaning "across from" or "on the other side of". This usage can be seen in the cis-trans distinction in chemistry, the cis-trans or complementation test in genetics, and in the ancient Roman term Cisalpine Gaul (i.e., "Gaul on this side of the Alps"). In the case of gender, cis- is used to refer to the alignment of gender identity with assigned sex.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisgender
Just because someone takes offense at a word, doesn't mean its automatically offensive or shouldn't be used. (Unless its origin is being used in oppression eg. "Slut", "Whore", the T word)
Overall it is more accurate to use "cisgender" because 90% of people don't actually know what their chromosomes or kareotype are. And, often "genetic girl" is used as a way of oppressing trans women like us...it is not a neutral word.
I feel we're inclined to be more argumentative. ;)
I know that people probably won't like me to say this but I think that mostly, trans people have pretty similar personalities overall to what is normal for their birth sex in their own culture. Not saying it's wrong or bad or not valid, just, that's what I noticed. Please don't hate me for noticing it ;O;
Quote from: sad panda on March 11, 2014, 11:34:19 AM
I know that people probably won't like me to say this but I think that mostly, trans people have pretty similar personalities overall to what is normal for their birth sex in their own culture. Not saying it's wrong or bad or not valid, just, that's what I noticed. Please don't hate me for noticing it ;O;
You can get in big trouble around here for saying that. I happen to share this observation, but if you tell ANYBODY, I'll deny it vigorously.
Is there a typical transgender personality? Perhaps there are some common traits that derive from being trans, and even those may be mitigated or amplified by the temporal sphere. Personality is a multidimensional thing, in terms of quantification. Without data, all I can offer is anecdotal "evidence" with a very small (N = 1) sample size. My speculation would be that TGs from my generation (boomers, post WWII) would tend to be less assertive than say, Gen-Y. I attribute that hypothesis to change in attitude. When boomers were teenagers, any sexual or gender-related behaviours or attitudes that fell beyond one (or so) standard deviations from the mean were considered deviant, not simply statistically, but in a pejorative sense, and the consequences for being known to cleave to such thought were dire. Thanks to the efforts of (largely) the gay community, those prejudices are melting away so adolescent TGs today have somewhat less to fear and are more likely to announce themselves, feeling less threatened.
Nonetheless, there is still reservation, there is still some degree of mistrust, there is still fear. That speaks to Nikko's point about introversion.
@FalsePrincess, more tolerant and accepting of peopled differences than the cis (on average)? Perhaps. That one's harder for me to judge because most of the people I know are university graduates and they tend to be fairly tolerant on average anyways.
@BLZA, as regards honesty... I have lived a lie most of my life. I have walked about, dressed as a man, engaging in manly things, football, construction, hunting; and yet never admitting to myself that in fact, I am female. The first person I discussed that fact with was a licensed mental health professional, in complete confidence. I still present in public as a male. I know other TGs who behave in a similar fashion. So, while there are certain principles of morality I guide my behaviour by and, I am not a thief, murderer or bearer of false witness, I don't think I can consider myself or those other trans people I described, as being completely honest. Sorry.
@Skye-Blue: We are the Tranz. Lower your shields and surrender. Your biological distinctiveness will be added to our own. Resistance is futile. You will be transitioned. You lucky girl :)
Quote from: sad panda on March 11, 2014, 11:34:19 AM
I know that people probably won't like me to say this but I think that mostly, trans people have pretty similar personalities overall to what is normal for their birth sex in their own culture. Not saying it's wrong or bad or not valid, just, that's what I noticed. Please don't hate me for noticing it ;O;
I think they tend to have similar interests to their birth sex (one study said the rate for the military is much higher among trans women than for the general male population; not that there aren't women in the military but it's generally a traditionally masculine thing). I'm not sure about personality. There are some really womanly trans women on here, some of whom are veterans.
Oddly, or not so oddly, interests also seem to correspond to orientation some. Trans women who were straight in their male lives tend to have more traditionally male interests. Trans guys with traditionally feminine interests also tend to be gay (not all, but enough to see a pattern).
Quote from: suzifrommd on March 11, 2014, 12:08:31 PM
You can get in big trouble around here for saying that. I happen to share this observation, but if you tell ANYBODY, I'll deny it vigorously.
Well, I don't know. I am not trying to hurt anyone. It is seriously just my opinion, everyone deserves one, but that's it, and I don't mean anything by it (except that i don't want to pretend i think something I don't) and don't expect anyone to agree or anything. Cuz, I know in the trans community it is taboo but most of the cis world doesn't even care. Better to be honest among accepting people and figure out how everyone feels than stay in denial and get it from the cis world who ISN'T accepting. That is how I feel.
It's not that I don't see WHY it frustrates people, because a lot of people with my opinion also believe trans people like that are not valid, but since i believe trans people are valid... yeah. No pitchforks please ><
Quote from: FA on March 11, 2014, 12:40:02 PM
I think they tend to have similar interests to their birth sex (one study said the rate for the military is much higher among trans women than for the general male population; not that there aren't women in the military but it's generally a traditionally masculine thing). I'm not sure about personality. There are some really womanly trans women on here, some of whom are veterans.
Oddly, or not so oddly, interests also seem to correspond to orientation some. Trans women who were straight in their male lives tend to have more traditionally male interests. Trans guys with traditionally feminine interests also tend to be gay (not all, but enough to see a pattern).
I don't really want to talk about it too deeply and make people upset at me. I know that will happen no matter how well meaning I am. :( Plus I have only really interacted with the trans population on the internet, so I don't know how it represents the entire population either. But in my opinion it does extend to personality. Things like dependence/independence/counterdependence and attachment styles, relationship role preference, group forming and conforming, conscientiousness, combativeness, decisiveness, measures of self worth, social emotional processing, sexuality, sexualization of others and sexual behavior, logical vs artistic preference, thinking vs feeling preference... I did notice the orientation thing as well, esp orientation pre-HRT and before thinking about transition.
For example i think I am personally in the middle or inconsistent on most of the gendered personality aspects despite a lot of people thinking i am feminine. It doesn't always jump out at you. :)
Quote from: FalsePrincess on March 11, 2014, 08:32:06 AM
Well this has to be the only forum I havent seen people fighting and calling words each other...
so I think that means something.
That's likely due to the strongly moderated nature of the forum...having previously on some other trans forum with lax moderation the insults flowed pretty freely sometimes!
I don't know about "homogenous", having now met a number of trans women it seems we are all as unique as any person. I only know one trans guy - a friend going back ten years - and he's as unique an individual as any person I know. It's a bit like saying all "racial group" are the same or all "religious group" are the same or all "political group" are the same. It only appears that way to the outsider, on the inside it's pretty obvious they share cultural or philosophical traits/beliefs but are still individuals.
Quote from: FA on March 11, 2014, 12:40:02 PM
I think they tend to have similar interests to their birth sex (one study said the rate for the military is much higher among trans women than for the general male population; not that there aren't women in the military but it's generally a traditionally masculine thing). I'm not sure about personality. There are some really womanly trans women on here, some of whom are veterans.
Oddly, or not so oddly, interests also seem to correspond to orientation some. Trans women who were straight in their male lives tend to have more traditionally male interests. Trans guys with traditionally feminine interests also tend to be gay (not all, but enough to see a pattern).
Well FA, I can only speak for myself but I somehow had the thought that the military might "fix" me but learned the hard way it doesn't work like that. So even after four very long years of faking it I was and still am trans. For me it was more of a test, sort of like an extended purge that ended up being extremely miserable. If I knew then what I know now, I wouldn't have joined but sort of glad and proud that I did.
Quote from: Jess42 on March 11, 2014, 01:56:08 PM
Quote from: FA on March 11, 2014, 12:40:02 PM
I think they tend to have similar interests to their birth sex (one study said the rate for the military is much higher among trans women than for the general male population; not that there aren't women in the military but it's generally a traditionally masculine thing). I'm not sure about personality. There are some really womanly trans women on here, some of whom are veterans.
Oddly, or not so oddly, interests also seem to correspond to orientation some. Trans women who were straight in their male lives tend to have more traditionally male interests. Trans guys with traditionally feminine interests also tend to be gay (not all, but enough to see a pattern).
Well FA, I can only speak for myself but I somehow had the thought that the military might "fix" me but learned the hard way it doesn't work like that. So even after four very long years of faking it I was and still am trans. For me it was more of a test, sort of like an extended purge that ended up being extremely miserable. If I knew then what I know now, I wouldn't have joined but sort of glad and proud that I did.
I think the study touched on that too, that there was probably an element of trying to stamp out feminine feelings responsible for so many trans women in the military. <wish I remember where I saw this>
Quote from: FA on March 11, 2014, 02:02:17 PM
I think the study touched on that too, that there was probably an element of trying to stamp out feminine feelings responsible for so many trans women in the military. <wish I remember where I saw this>
I wish you could remember too, it seems like it might be an interesting study. Look at how many we have on the forums that are now going through the same smack on the head that I did. I had a whole lot of patience though to wait it out. I truly feel for the ones that are going through the realization because I know how miserable it was for me. I tried the gung ho thing and that worked about as well as trying to get a rock to float. I joined the flag football team for my unit at my first duty station, less than 6 months in. I just wasn't aggressive enough(go figure, flag football?) and that is the point in time that I realized I am not really a man or at least not on the inside and never would be. Then 3 1/2 years I had to make do and trudge through it more or less on autopilot.
I agree with the whole theme of "hiding feminine behaviors" being something that a lot if not most of us went through.
It was slightly different in my case because I am bigender, I have two genders that I switch between without control. (I am sometimes androgyne, but most of the time I am female)
So as a child I was very between guys and girls and never really understood guys at all, but felt like I could relate a lot to girls and sort of envied them. I started to figure out that if I behaved a certain way that I would be more likely to be accepted. Effectively I was forced into being androgyne for 19 years, albeit when puberty hit it was a lot easier to pretend to be a strong masculine jerk male (which I did for several years, all of which I regret painfully)...yay male hormones... :(
As much as what I did was dictated by my hormone levels, I still felt like my actions and what I felt/wanted were completely opposite things.
Eventually after living that long suppressing my primary female gender "she" sort of just popped out complete with a psychosomatic breakdown beforehand (IBS, major depression, complete confusion as to what was happening to me, and a loss of time).
Lesson learned...you can only suppress things for so long before they come out without your consent and turn your life upside down.
Quote from: ♡ Emily ♡ on March 11, 2014, 03:01:39 PM
Well "stamping out feminine feelings" makes a lot of sense. I realised that I was doing exactly the same for most of my life, except I was able to do the same stuff without joining military (not that the idea of joining never crossed my mind).
Anyone trans that know they are and are certain I would definitely try to talk them out of joining at least until trans people can openly serve. The contract you sign pretty much locks you in and what type of discharge you get has an effect on future job propositions and so on. An honorable discharge will get no questions asked. With a general discharge or less than honorable or dishonorable, the questions will start coming. My first job after I had to give them a copy of my DD form 214 as proof of military service and what type of discharge is on it.
You did right Emily because being forced to be 100% guy for several years sux. The only way I could be me was dreaming, which isn't always a given unless you are an expert at lucid dreaming or daydreaming. I looked at the girls with envy but most of my fellow soldiers would think it was lust. Same with magazines, while they would be, "Man I would do her." I would be thinking, " I wish I could have be her". Living a lie ain't no fun.
There is no typical personality from what I've noticed. Everyone is different and are own person. Some transwomen are certainly more masculine, but that's not true of all. And some transmen are a little more fem, but there are many masculine guys out there. I actually feel there are more masculine transmen than feminine transwomen from what I've noticed. It's hard to judge. Everyone has such a diverse background and they all act differently regardless of being fem or masculine. To be honest, I think most people overthink this. Just be you, whatever that is.
I definitely get hiding feminine behaviors, I grew up with a devout christian dad, kinda have to do that to survive as a boy to a large extent, but the stamping out is interesting to me. What creates the urge to stop being feminine inside? Like, what were you feeling when you thought, i need to stop feeling this and be a man? for me, I was perfectly okay with the fact that I was feminine and liked typical girly things, I just got kinda angsty abt it and didn't tell people about me because I thought they would judge me.
I am guessing those were some pretty extreme feelings to join the military.. it must have been hard to cope with. :s
If you know one transgender person, you know one transgender person.
--Jay
Quote from: aleon515 on March 13, 2014, 02:06:00 AM
If you know one transgender person, you know one transgender person.
--Jay
Daaaamn. ^THIS^
You are correct, sir. You mean we're not stamped out at factories?
We are snowflakes. Some flakier than others. :P
Kia Ora,
Re: How would you describe the typical transgender personality? ::) Split ::) ;) ;D
Metta Anatta :)
Quote from: BLZA on March 11, 2014, 08:19:03 AM
Extreme honesty is one striking difference between the trans and general population.
Nah, I've met some pretentious trans people at about the same rate as with cis people.
Quote from: sad panda on March 11, 2014, 04:51:27 PM
I definitely get hiding feminine behaviors, I grew up with a devout christian dad, kinda have to do that to survive as a boy to a large extent, but the stamping out is interesting to me. What creates the urge to stop being feminine inside? Like, what were you feeling when you thought, i need to stop feeling this and be a man? for me, I was perfectly okay with the fact that I was feminine and liked typical girly things, I just got kinda angsty abt it and didn't tell people about me because I thought they would judge me.
I am guessing those were some pretty extreme feelings to join the military.. it must have been hard to cope with. :s
I can't speak for anyone but myself but it was more of a test. Could I be a macho male? Were all the people that called me a sissy, feminine, or thought me to be gay right? Even though it was mainly girls I was interested in back then with the occasional guy. I got my answers about six moths in and yes, they were right except about the gay part. I am bi. Then I had three and half years to masquerade as something that I wasn't.
It never stopped the feeling of feminine inside but I had to hide it. Really it's what made me realize and fully accept that I was transgender. So it was more of proving something to myself rather than trying to squash those feelings. Believe me, when the four years were up I had my answer. I still keep it secret, after all it is mine anyway with the exception of a few places I can let my hair down and be me. But then again I didn't suffer crippling GID and I think that is one of the reasons that I made it without too many problems. I would hate to think about it if I couldn't have even looked at myself in the mirror because of my anatomy. The only problem that I did have was not being able to do my beauty regimes like shaving. I just felt nasty all the time.
one word: reflective
Just a note, and I certainly don't mean any offense by it.
But one thing I've noted that is trans women tend toward having been overachievers in their former lives while this seems less true for trans men. Of course, there are those who don't fit this. There seem to be a lot of trans women who were extremely successful in their former lives. And we really don't see this very much with trans men. A lot more trans men seem to be blue or pink collar. Of some of the more successful trans men (before transition) I've known, they tend to have experienced more delays career and education wise (taking longer than average to graduate and 'set up shop' as it were). Many also seem more delayed in other areas as well. Now by delay, I'm not talking cognitive function or anything.
But I've seen a trend over the years with trans men seeming to have more reluctance to grow up. (now, not everyone, I can already see the protests of the few really mature, successful guys out there, but when compared to trans women we lag far behind as a group). We're just usually not nearly as successful in our pre-transition lives as the ladies (even when accounting for age differences).
So, I think the typical traits are very different depending which direction you're going. And without trying to offend and including myself in this - I think a typical trait for trans men is the peter pan thing. When we hit puberty, we get freaked out as our bodies move away from androgyny. And we stay stuck in a kind of never realized boyhood, terrified of becoming a woman and unable to see ourselves in a woman's role at all, much less plan for the future and who we're going 'to be' as a woman. The whole idea of growing up into a woman is abhorrent to us and we want no part of it at all. Even being a 'strong woman' successful in whatever way is completely unpalatable and we can't bear to think of it all. We'd be better off dead and we can see no future to plan for at all. (And this may be more true for guys who didn't know anything about trans stuff.) There's nothing to grow up into and we lack the guidance and yes, pressure, we need to grow into a man. Girls just really aren't encouraged or expected to be much, so...
And there seems to be an orientation part to this as well. For a trans woman who was very successful pre-transition, you will usually find she was straight (into women) or close to it. A lot more of those who didn't fare very well in their former lives were more into men. I think there's something to that. Now of course this isn't true for everyone. I'm just noting patterns here.
Quote from: FA on March 13, 2014, 10:43:12 AM
Just a note, and I certainly don't mean any offense by it.
But one thing I've noted that is trans women tend toward having been overachievers in their former lives while this seems less true for trans men. Of course, there are those who don't fit this. There seem to be a lot of trans women who were extremely successful in their former lives. And we really don't see this very much with trans men. A lot more trans men seem to be blue or pink collar. Of some of the more successful trans men (before transition) I've known, they tend to have experienced more delays career and education wise (taking longer than average to graduate and 'set up shop' as it were). Many also seem more delayed in other areas as well. Now by delay, I'm not talking cognitive function or anything.
But I've seen a trend over the years with trans men seeming to have more reluctance to grow up. (now, not everyone, I can already see the protests of the few really mature, successful guys out there, but when compared to trans women we lag far behind as a group). We're just usually not nearly as successful in our pre-transition lives as the ladies (even when accounting for age differences).
So, I think the typical traits are very different depending which direction you're going. And without trying to offend and including myself in this - I think a typical trait for trans men is the peter pan thing. When we hit puberty, we get freaked out as our bodies move away from androgyny. And we stay stuck in a kind of never realized boyhood, terrified of becoming a woman and unable to see ourselves in a woman's role at all, much less plan for the future and who we're going 'to be' as a woman. The whole idea of growing up into a woman is abhorrent to us and we want no part of it at all. Even being a 'strong woman' successful in whatever way is completely unpalatable and we can't bear to think of it all. We'd be better off dead and we can see no future to plan for at all. (And this may be more true for guys who didn't know anything about trans stuff.) There's nothing to grow up into and we lack the guidance and yes, pressure, we need to grow into a man. Girls just really aren't encouraged or expected to be much, so...
And there seems to be an orientation part to this as well. For a trans woman who was very successful pre-transition, you will usually find she was straight (into women) or close to it. A lot more of those who didn't fare very well in their former lives were more into men. I think there's something to that. Now of course this isn't true for everyone. I'm just noting patterns here.
I couldn't separate out any of this as it was another excellent commentary from my perspective. I might add though that there are trans women who aren't as focused as those you cite and do seem to have cognitive problems when it comes to planning their transitional steps and wind up trumping themselves in the process. Unfortunately I fall into that latter group, not because of cognitive problems but due to age and the lack of information available when I was younger. I do feel bad for those who don't plan well and drop out of school, lose their jobs and suddenly due to the social stigma of being trans wind up with menial low wage jobs and are never able to afford the necessary steps to complete their journey.
Quote from: FA on March 13, 2014, 10:43:12 AM
Just a note, and I certainly don't mean any offense by it.
But one thing I've noted that is trans women tend toward having been overachievers in their former lives while this seems less true for trans men. Of course, there are those who don't fit this. There seem to be a lot of trans women who were extremely successful in their former lives. And we really don't see this very much with trans men. A lot more trans men seem to be blue or pink collar. Of some of the more successful trans men (before transition) I've known, they tend to have experienced more delays career and education wise (taking longer than average to graduate and 'set up shop' as it were). Many also seem more delayed in other areas as well. Now by delay, I'm not talking cognitive function or anything.
But I've seen a trend over the years with trans men seeming to have more reluctance to grow up. (now, not everyone, I can already see the protests of the few really mature, successful guys out there, but when compared to trans women we lag far behind as a group). We're just usually not nearly as successful in our pre-transition lives as the ladies (even when accounting for age differences).
So, I think the typical traits are very different depending which direction you're going. And without trying to offend and including myself in this - I think a typical trait for trans men is the peter pan thing. When we hit puberty, we get freaked out as our bodies move away from androgyny. And we stay stuck in a kind of never realized boyhood, terrified of becoming a woman and unable to see ourselves in a woman's role at all, much less plan for the future and who we're going 'to be' as a woman. The whole idea of growing up into a woman is abhorrent to us and we want no part of it at all. Even being a 'strong woman' successful in whatever way is completely unpalatable and we can't bear to think of it all. We'd be better off dead and we can see no future to plan for at all. (And this may be more true for guys who didn't know anything about trans stuff.) There's nothing to grow up into and we lack the guidance and yes, pressure, we need to grow into a man. Girls just really aren't encouraged or expected to be much, so...
And there seems to be an orientation part to this as well. For a trans woman who was very successful pre-transition, you will usually find she was straight (into women) or close to it. A lot more of those who didn't fare very well in their former lives were more into men. I think there's something to that. Now of course this isn't true for everyone. I'm just noting patterns here.
FA, I can't really find any argument with what you said and certainly no offense. Of course there are exceptions to the pattern but it seems spot on. I think society messes us over more than nature though. Tomboy is a term of endearment for girls that act boyish while sissy is an insult for boys that act girly. I think it's another reason that transmen although still hard but have a way easier time dressing and acting more like their inner gender than transwomen.
Quote from: Jess42 on March 13, 2014, 11:42:44 AM
FA, I can't really find any argument with what you said and certainly no offense. Of course there are exceptions to the pattern but it seems spot on. I think society messes us over more than nature though. Tomboy is a term of endearment for girls that act boyish while sissy is an insult for boys that act girly. I think it's another reason that transmen although still hard but have a way easier time dressing and acting more like their inner gender than transwomen.
Thanks hon. Oh yeah, I think society has a lot more to do with it than we like to admit. For trans guys, we get some pressure and problems for being too masculine. But not like what trans girls get. Boys are pressured to perform in general and make something of themselves, grow up, be independent, be 'men'. And sometimes this is magnified for young trans girls showing feminine traits. So, it makes sense they feel a lot more pressure to perform. (and of course there are also advantages career wise conferred upon perceived males in this culture which I know is a very touchy subject) So, basically dysphoria sometimes drives pre-transition women to achieve at a high level. And there may also be other factors involved.
Quote from: FA on March 13, 2014, 12:16:54 PM
Thanks hon. Oh yeah, I think society has a lot more to do with it than we like to admit. For trans guys, we get some pressure and problems for being too masculine. But not like what trans girls get. Boys are pressured to perform in general and make something of themselves, grow up, be independent, be 'men'. And sometimes this is magnified for young trans girls showing feminine traits. So, it makes sense they feel a lot more pressure to perform. (and of course there are also advantages career wise conferred upon perceived males in this culture which I know is a very touchy subject) So, basically dysphoria sometimes drives pre-transition women to achieve at a high level. And there may also be other factors involved. Generally though, the average trans woman is more successful than the average cis woman (and maybe even cis man). I don't know what that means. Are trans women as a group smarter? Does being raised male somehow bring out the best in a female mind? If sexism wasn't a thing, would we see this level of achievement more and more in cis women as well?
AH HA. That must be the male privilege everyone keeps talking about. ;) I don't really know 'cause I have never experienced "male privilege". When I was young I was always a loner or with the other misfits of society. Pretty much I grew up how I grew up and wasn't really forced or pushed to do anything. If so it wouldn't have worked anyway, I was too stubborn. The only popularity I experienced in high school was only because I played in a rock band. I think the only reason I learned how to play was the big hair and makeup without ridicule, enjoying it is just a byproduct. I've always known though from my first memories that I was trans or at the time wanted to be a girl instead of a boy. So I really didn't do all the normal boy stuff.
I really don't think transwomen are smarter than anyone else but those of us that were pushed to be competitive to keep from being called sissies and such or played sports to prove something, that the competitiveness may be a hold over. Someone else might answer that question better 'cause I wasn't a very competitive person at all. Never played sports and if playing games I would often times lose on purpose and let someone else win. But it seems like I have always thought more in line with females than males. Hell, even young if someone called me a sissy it didn't even bother me like it would my male peers. I felt no need to prove otherwise.
As for sexism, I think it's on the way out and I do see more and more females in positions previously dominated by males and doing more masculine jobs such as welding, construction, auto mechanics and so on. I also see more women that are the main provider for their families and the male doing the "extra" job. Even some that are stay at home dads. I do think that gender roles are changing due to either society, evolution, nature or technology. I think we just maybe the beginnings of the change and ahead of the times. Or hope so anyway. ;) Or at least a world in which we can decide on which gender to express ourselves without all the negativity that comes with it regardless of what genitals we are born with. Besides being a hopeless romantic I'm also one heck of a dreamer. ::)
Quote from: Jess42 on March 13, 2014, 01:37:51 PM
AH HA. That must be the male privilege everyone keeps talking about. ;)
Well, like I said. I know it's a touchy subject and I'm not sure anyone is really sure on the concept or how far it goes. I mean, obviously there are a lot of men who don't seem to have benefited much. But there are also a lot of people who probably wouldn't be where they are if they had been female. Probably none of the US presidents for example. Probably not most of the world's CEOs. I don't think that means they in anyway are undeserving of their success, just that they probably wouldn't have gotten there if they had been female. And I think there's a difference there in what little boys see is possible for them and what little girls see (particularly when I was growing up). Anyway, I'm not sure privilege is the best term for it. It's more like lack of a certain discrimination.
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Quote from: FA on March 13, 2014, 10:43:12 AM
Just a note, and I certainly don't mean any offense by it.
But one thing I've noted that is trans women tend toward having been overachievers in their former lives while this seems less true for trans men. Of course, there are those who don't fit this. There seem to be a lot of trans women who were extremely successful in their former lives. And we really don't see this very much with trans men. A lot more trans men seem to be blue or pink collar. Of some of the more successful trans men (before transition) I've known, they tend to have experienced more delays career and education wise (taking longer than average to graduate and 'set up shop' as it were). Many also seem more delayed in other areas as well. Now by delay, I'm not talking cognitive function or anything.
But I've seen a trend over the years with trans men seeming to have more reluctance to grow up. (now, not everyone, I can already see the protests of the few really mature, successful guys out there, but when compared to trans women we lag far behind as a group). We're just usually not nearly as successful in our pre-transition lives as the ladies (even when accounting for age differences).
So, I think the typical traits are very different depending which direction you're going. And without trying to offend and including myself in this - I think a typical trait for trans men is the peter pan thing. When we hit puberty, we get freaked out as our bodies move away from androgyny. And we stay stuck in a kind of never realized boyhood, terrified of becoming a woman and unable to see ourselves in a woman's role at all, much less plan for the future and who we're going 'to be' as a woman. The whole idea of growing up into a woman is abhorrent to us and we want no part of it at all. Even being a 'strong woman' successful in whatever way is completely unpalatable and we can't bear to think of it all. We'd be better off dead and we can see no future to plan for at all. (And this may be more true for guys who didn't know anything about trans stuff.) There's nothing to grow up into and we lack the guidance and yes, pressure, we need to grow into a man. Girls just really aren't encouraged or expected to be much, so...
And there seems to be an orientation part to this as well. For a trans woman who was very successful pre-transition, you will usually find she was straight (into women) or close to it. A lot more of those who didn't fare very well in their former lives were more into men. I think there's something to that. Now of course this isn't true for everyone. I'm just noting patterns here.
Yeah I can see this too.. I know that being into guys I was spending more time looking for a guy to take care of me than trying to take charge of my own future... hah... and i have met a couple other MTFs who like guys with similar attachment problems :/
Not that this is a good thing at all, but I will probably always feel like a child. :c
Quote from: FA on March 13, 2014, 02:22:17 PM
Well, like I said. I know it's a touchy subject and I'm not sure anyone is really sure on the concept or how far it goes. I mean, obviously there are a lot of men who don't seem to have benefited much. But there are also a lot of people who probably wouldn't be where they are if they had been female. Probably none of the US presidents for example. Probably not most of the world's CEOs. I don't think that means they in anyway are undeserving of their success, just that they probably wouldn't have gotten there if they had been female. And I think there's a difference there in what little boys see is possible for them and what little girls see (particularly when I was growing up). Anyway, I'm not sure privilege is the best term for it. It's more like lack of a certain discrimination.
Well I love touchy subjects, controversial stuff, politics and religion. Pretty much all the stuff people fight over. Let me rephrase, I love these things when there is no fighting and a real in depth discussion can be had. I have learned so much in my life from other's experiences with these subjects but the minute someone gets angry over something then I just back away. I can tell you another name for male privilege and that is "the good ol' boy's club". Or that's what we called it where I am from. Overlooking females for promotions, or possible job positions and so on but like you said its not just limited to females. Thankfully it seems to be less and less though. I do think that I may have experienced female privilege a few times or maybe transfemale privilege from guys while doing my job. I really don't know but it seems like they are awfully helpful, more than usual in an industry where a guy gets treated like crap most of the time and a little flirtatious even. Maybe they're just into transwomen and when I do wear more feminine t shirts and women's jeans, this seems to happen. I've got to say that I am extremely flattered when it happens whether they think I am trans and are into me or just honest to god confused or really can't tell and just see me as a female with a slightly masculine face. Either way I am extremely happy to have the help especially in the summer time. I do know that the industry in which I conduct my business is extremely diverse.
Yeah, when I was growing up there was definitely a difference in the priorities of little girls and little boys. Now anything seems possible for both but it was fairly limited back then.
Quote from: sad panda on March 13, 2014, 02:32:52 PM
Yeah I can see this too.. I know that being into guys I was spending more time looking for a guy to take care of me than trying to take charge of my own future... hah... and i have met a couple other MTFs who like guys with similar attachment problems :/
Not that this is a good thing at all, but I will probably always feel like a child. :c
I think we all feel a little childlike inside sad panda. I would love to find a world famous nuerosurgeon that would fall in love with me. :P But I don't ever see that happening though. Being MTF I love to have someone that can make me feel safe and secure with my own self identity. With me, not necessarily to take care of me financially but a protector that will comfort me during a thunderstorm. I hate thunderstorms especially during tornado season. Someone that I can walk down the street with that will keep me safe from a bad situation and so on. Someone that will cherish me for who I am. I think we all long for that.
Quote from: Jess42 on March 13, 2014, 04:52:10 PM
I think we all feel a little childlike inside sad panda. I would love to find a world famous nuerosurgeon that would fall in love with me. :P But I don't ever see that happening though. Being MTF I love to have someone that can make me feel safe and secure with my own self identity. With me, not necessarily to take care of me financially but a protector that will comfort me during a thunderstorm. I hate thunderstorms especially during tornado season. Someone that I can walk down the street with that will keep me safe from a bad situation and so on. Someone that will cherish me for who I am. I think we all long for that.
Yeah though I don't mean like that, it's more like he's half my dad and half my man. Not proud of it but thats kinda what i need in a partner :/ I never managed to have a job yet (responsibilities overload me emotionally, like I can't handle it) and my life doesn't mean much to me without somebody to give it to. I sorta think I am a dainty victorian chick they put in the wrong era. :-X at least i found a guy who is ok with that.
Like for example you mentioned politics... adult/real world stuff like that scares me lol. I can't watch the news or anything. I just live in my little bubble away from practical concerns and stuff. :-\
Quote from: Jill F on March 13, 2014, 02:19:41 AM
Daaaamn. ^THIS^
You are correct, sir. You mean we're not stamped out at factories?
We are snowflakes. Some flakier than others. :P
Nah, the trans stamping out factory hasn't been working for years. Flaky? I resemble that remark! :)
--Jay
Quote from: Nikko on March 11, 2014, 08:32:43 AM
I feel there's more introversion in the trans world. Not sure if that's hereditary or environmental.
I think environmental for lack of a better term. Before we make peace with ourselves we require a lot of soul searching to figure out who we are more often than not. A deeply internal journey of trying to figure out who we are. That's bound to drive any developing mind to be heavily introverted. Combined with not feeling secure or at home in our own skins, and not wanting to draw attention to ourselves because of it.
I think a lot of transpeople are accepting and open minded, because they know themselves what it's like to be judged. But then again, there are close minded pricks everywhere, also in the trans world. (and I see transpeople can sometimes fight pretty hard on who is 'trans enough' and who is not, yadda yadda)
It could also be because I'm open minded myself, and I automatically get attracted to likeminded people. I have been on a dreadlocks forum which had a similar 'family' feeling where everybody supported each other, same on the forum of the LARP group I'm a member of. I think it's because all three of these groups (transpeople, dreadheads, larpers) are minorities who generally experience enough hate from the OUTSIDE world already, so have to cling together like family in order to stay together and withstand all that criticism.
I have ventured through many subcultures in my life, and I generally find them to be a lot more pleasant and accepting environment than the mainstream stuff. All of my larp friends were totally okay with me being trans right away, and respectfully called me my preferred name and pronouns, like WOW! And not ONE, but ALL OF THEM! (not saying larpers can't be pricks, but the ones I had as friends sure weren't!)
But for the rest... I don't think there's really a typical 'trans personality' or whatever, though some character traits (like introversion) might be more present than in the cisgender world because of our 'common heritage' and a childhood/teenage years that often were full of angst and confusion. You learn to deal with things differently by being rejected, which I think most of us have been multiple times.
I don't think that there is a typical tg personality. Perhaps others may see us as a little more introspective or even selfish. Some may see us as more sensitive to our presentation and the reaction of others. However we also have our fair share of extroverts, thinkers, actors, drama queens, sycophants, bullies et al. Perhaps as a group we have the potential to better understand and value difference, nuance, spirit and individuality.
Aisla
To me this topic seems to be dancing around the idea rather that outright saying "define a stereotype of transpeople".
I mean, it's like asking for a description of the typical personality of gays, Jews, blacks, Muslims, people who own cats, people who like the Beatles, whatever...
That said, some of the things people responded with I can say describe me. And a LOT of things that don't.
But, I will give that it's an interesting topic to think about...
I don't think there is a typical personality for the Transgender community. Everyone is different; it's like saying all white or black people act a certain way.
Good question I guess. I'm 95% like my mother was. She was a very nice & kind woman. So I'm the same unless I'm really forced to become mean which I greatly dislike.
Quote from: BLZA on March 11, 2014, 08:19:03 AM
Definitely there's much more diversity in a handful of transgender
women visually than genetic women. But personality wise there's a degree of homogeneity?
No. There isn't. We're all different and unique... just like every other human on this planet.
I hear a lot of introversion, but what about introspect. To me it seems that we know ourselves a lot better inside than the rest of society. This may come out as psychological problems but I think the only reason it does is that the rest of society just doesn't have the same level of introspect. Comparing the trans community with the rest of society per capita, how many trans serial killers are there? How many trans serial rapists are there? How many trans child molesters are there? I will put money that there are almost none or way below the average of the rest of society. I would say that we actually care more than the rest of society about society because we keep hoping society changes instead of just going with the flow. Other than the average personality, I think we are just as diverse as the rest of the world.
Quote from: Jess42 on March 15, 2014, 06:26:13 AM
how many trans serial killers are there?
This is a little bit of a non-sequitur... but, that question instantly made me think "It puts the lotion on it's skin or else it gets the hose again."
Quote from: Jess42 on March 15, 2014, 06:26:13 AM
I will put money that there are almost none or way below the average of the rest of society.
I'm sure proportionately we run about the same percentages as the rest of society. We're just a smaller overall demographic, so there will naturally be fewer of us.
Quote from: Jess42 on March 15, 2014, 06:26:13 AM
how many trans serial killers are there?
I don't know how many there are or many act on it, but I know of at least one with the mind set.
Quote from: Edge on March 15, 2014, 10:57:28 AM
I don't know how many there are or many act on it, but I know of at least one with the mind set.
Bet I know too! Lol
Over the years I have found a few kindred spirit in this forum... and you know who you are Ladies...
We are alpha bitches, successful overachievers with a touch of narcissistic, self-centered, overbearing, impatient personalities...
Yet we are also protective and make up for excellent mentors, teachers, and counselors...
just sayin
Would it be accurate to say that generally trans people still alive have at least above-average "grit" ? ???
"Grit in psychology is a positive, non-cognitive trait based on an individual's passion for a particular long-term goal or endstate coupled with a powerful motivation to achieve their respective objective".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grit_(personality_trait)
Note: from the link .. "The United States military believes that this and similar constructs may assist in explaining why some soldiers are better equipped to handle the psychological trauma of combat". Thus, trans people are tested by the "psychological trauma" of their condition, analogously, like participants in the SAWs movies are tested for "the will to live". :D
Perhaps, we can say the "winners" have at least above-average grit. :)
Quote from: missadventure on March 15, 2014, 09:59:48 AM
This is a little bit of a non-sequitur... but, that question instantly made me think "It puts the lotion on it's skin or else it gets the hose again."
I'm sure proportionately we run about the same percentages as the rest of society. We're just a smaller overall demographic, so there will naturally be fewer of us.
Oh yeah, I knew someone was gonna think of Buffalo Bill. But it was Buffalo Bill, Not Buffalo Willamena :) or Wallowing Willamena. Great, I'm about to go to bed and can't get the sound of that voice out of my head. I guess I'll have nightmares. :P Seriously though that one sentence with that actor's voice was the scariest part of that movie that freaked me out. Everytime I watch a Monk rerun it that same actor's voice sends chills down my spine.
As for per capita proportions, with the bathroom debate being what it is, if there was a trans child molester caught, certain religious and or other groups would run with that one. As for serial killers, I know that trans isn't one of the markers of the general profile. Neither is being female or African American but there were and probably still are female serial killers and the Baton Rouge serial killer was black. But again with the bathroom debate, I believe that if certain groups could tie a transperson to a serial killing, they would run with that to keep us from using our preferred restroom.
Quote from: Edge on March 15, 2014, 10:57:28 AM
I don't know how many there are or many act on it, but I know of at least one with the mind set.
I think everyone has a certain mindset. I kill people mentally in my mind on a daily basis when they cut me off in traffic or put me at risk for an accident. No really though I couldn't even kill someone mentally so I just mentally beat them with a baseball bat. ;) Thinking about it and acting on it are completely different. But who knows? I may turn on the news in the morning and be totally wrong. But one thing about it, if it ever happens we will definitely hear about it. Way too many people will jump on their high horses and say, "See, these are the same people that want( fill in the blanks)."
I'm not saying that we all are angels, I know I'm not. I know drug use and or alcohol makes the pain go away for a little while and we all gotta' eat so we do what we do to survive, from shoplifting to turning tricks to whatever else. That is more self destructive in nature though than hurting another human being though. Like I said, I could be wrong.