Emphasis on TMI - if discussion of sexual matters can make you uncomfortable, definitely don't read any further.
So the textbook definition of dysphoria, in the context of one's sexed body, is generally 'extreme discomfort, to the extent of needing to pursue transition' (or something along those lines?) And there are thousands of ways that someone can be uncomfortable with their body without it constituting dysphoria.
So the question is as follows - if someone expresses extreme discomfort regarding aspects of their body's sex, but also, say, regularly has sex and/or masturbates... does that automatically mean that their discomfort isn't dysphoria?
I ask because in other trans communities I've seen, it's not at all uncommon for someone who claims to have dysphoria to also comment that they regularly masturbate or have sex (even including penetrative sex, which is totally unimaginable to me).
Do you believe that someone who does that has a valid claim to sex dysphoria?
Of course. Orgasms still feel good, even if they're with the wrong parts. Sure, the overall experience will likely be better with the right parts, but it doesn't mean you must be completely chaste without them.
I'm going to be honest, I can't masturbate or have sex.
As an FTM, it's hard for me to even shower or wipe after taking a piss, so you can imagine that being sexual would be difficult for me. I've broken down, punched walls and cried for not having the right genitals -- more so when I'm horny and wanting to have penetrative sex without an object. I've known that I was in the wrong body all my life and even as a toddler, knew that my genitals weren't correct. I've always been a vivid dreamer and all my wet dreams were in the male role & body. I'd wake up and experience a female orgasm but it doesn't feel good or right to me. It feels foreign, alien, and disgusting to me. I'm too disconnected from my body to find pleasure in it. It just brings attention to what is done there and what I don't want to have. My one and only fear is connected to my body.
Whenever I'm aroused, I always feel myself having an erection and often times, I'll reach down to find nothing there and it'll take me a moment to realise that it's spiritual/mental. It's hard to explain considering I was born in this body, but as a firm believer in reincarnation, it makes sense to me but might make others skeptical. Either way, believe it or not, I'm still a very sexual person. I love pleasuring my girlfriend and making her happy. I just wish more than anything that we could be more intimate and connected like a man and a woman should. It's a struggle for me.
It's hard for me to imagine transsexual/transgender people masturbating or having sex, but when it all comes down to it, I have to remember that we're all human and we have those sexual instincts & desires. Some people can't handle it like me and others have an easier time because like Inanna said, orgasms still feel good to people even if they're the wrong parts. I'm sure that they still suffer dysphoria and discomfort, but they've most likely taught themselves to know how to handle it and take it for what it is... pleasure.
Quote from: JJarmon on March 21, 2014, 04:36:37 PM
Whenever I'm aroused, I always feel myself having an erection and often times, I'll reach down to find nothing there and it'll take me a moment to realise that it's spiritual/mental. It's hard to explain considering I was born in this body, but as a firm believer in reincarnation, it makes sense to me but might make others skeptical.
I totally understand that. I'm a material atheist, but those experiences really made me question my beliefs (many years ago).
Quote from: Cassandra Hyacinth on March 21, 2014, 04:01:06 PM
Emphasis on TMI - if discussion of sexual matters can make you uncomfortable, definitely don't read any further.
So the textbook definition of dysphoria, in the context of one's sexed body, is generally 'extreme discomfort, to the extent of needing to pursue transition' (or something along those lines?) And there are thousands of ways that someone can be uncomfortable with their body without it constituting dysphoria.
So the question is as follows - if someone expresses extreme discomfort regarding aspects of their body's sex, but also, say, regularly has sex and/or masturbates... does that automatically mean that their discomfort isn't dysphoria?
I ask because in other trans communities I've seen, it's not at all uncommon for someone who claims to have dysphoria to also comment that they regularly masturbate or have sex (even including penetrative sex, which is totally unimaginable to me).
Do you believe that someone who does that has a valid claim to sex dysphoria?
My therapist, who has extensive experience in working with trans people, seems to have no issue with the fact I have a healthy sex life.. Do I have dysphoria? Yes, without a doubt. Is it as severe for me as it seems for others, no, thankfully.
My understanding is that when sexually aroused, a chemical change takes place in the human brain-this can be to such a strong degree that it can override dysphoria, or any other sort of pain for that matter. While it might be incredibly painful for someone to think about themselves sexually when they aren't aroused, I've personally found that when (and only when) the moment strikes, I don't really mind all that much.
Some people aren't uncomfortable with certain parts of their body. I'm apathetic towards having the genitals I have, I have no dysphoria about that (except the idea of being penetrated feels very very wrong to me, mentally), but just my chest. So people can masturbate or have sex without issues if they're not dysphoric about that part of their body.
But even if they are, it's different for everything. Some people find it more uncomfortable than others, and I think it's important to not judge everyone by your own feelings towards aspects of your body.
Dysphoria affects people in different ways and different intensities. While I'd rather not have what I do, we've had some great times together. Only oral sex is a big turn off. I guess way too close to home? That makes it easier for me to relate the others that so hate the dangly bits and want nothing at all to do with them
In a way I guess this question relates to the need or desire for SRS. Or even that being a "distinguishing characteristic" for a transsexual. Surprise panty checks never were a concern for me.
Quote from: androgynouspainter26 on March 21, 2014, 06:10:43 PM
My understanding is that when sexually aroused, a chemical change takes place in the human brain-this can be to such a strong degree that it can override dysphoria, or any other sort of pain for that matter. While it might be incredibly painful for someone to think about themselves sexually when they aren't aroused, I've personally found that when (and only when) the moment strikes, I don't really mind all that much.
Yep and I read something where they studied people's brains during orgasm and found certain parts of the brain kind of shut off. For women, they said the emotion center shuts off. Of course someone might just be too distressed to even get close to that point.
But anyway, sex is a very powerful drive. If it wasn't we wouldn't be here. So, I don't think it really says much about the person other then that they're human. :P
Disclaimer: Peanut gallery comment. Take it for what it's worth.
It seems to me that it may be an issue of degrees. People can have dysphoria to varying degrees and have different triggering events. My anecdotal and unscientific experience is I've heard a lot of trans guys say they became less dysphoric about certain things when they started passing and being broadly accepted as a man. I've heard guys who say they wish they had traditional male parts but that it wasn't bothering them enough to pursue surgery. Some guys don't seem bothered at all by it, e.g. my junk is not relevant for 99% of my daily life and during the other 1%, I have a romantic/sexual partner with whom it's not relevant and who treats me completely as a man. For others, clearly it's a very big issue that warrants surgery. Everyone addresses their specific issues of dysphoria in their own ways. I guess that's why a therapist is always a good idea because they can address very personal things. People here are just expressing their personal views and those are all different.
I dislike the "textbook" definitions of gender dysphoria I've seen so far. In my experience, these definitions are vague, inaccurate, or both.
I think they're misguided on a very basic level. Instead of simply and accurately stating what gender dysphoria is, they tend to rely on listing possible symptoms - such as the need to transition, thoughts of certain bodily features causing a feeling of wrongness, the need for a different genital configuration, etc.
The way I see it, there are two main problems. The first, as others have already said, is the manifestations and severity of dysphoria varies hugely from person to person. The second is that trying to define gender dysphoria in this way - giving it a set, concrete definition by pinpointing exactly what its manifestations look and feel like - not only results in an incomplete concept of gender dysphoria, but also hinders comprehensive understanding.
IMO, rather than looking at symptoms and manifestations of gender dysphoria, their source and causes should be examined.
Everyone has the need for their body to feel and be a certain way, and everyone needs to occupy certain social coordinates in order to be healthy and happy. This is why manifestations of gender dysphoria are so varied - everyone's different.
At the same time, it's also the reason why there are just as many commonalities as there are differences between people who experience gender dysphoria: for example, facial hair is a dysphoria trigger for many trans women, and breasts are a dysphoria trigger for many trans men. The details, perception, and manifestations may differ, but the underlying cause is that these features are in some way wrong for the person experiencing gender dysphoria.
(To address the OP:)
Yes, of course you can experience gender dysphoria and be active sexually. For some people who experience dysphoria, their genitals aren't part of it. Other people, their genitals might cause dysphoria, but they enjoy sex despite it. Others can't or don't want to do it at all.
You can have dysphoria and still enjoy your body sexually. We were built to do that.
I also want to emphasize, that NOT ALL OF US HAVE DYSPHORIA, despite what the latest DSM would have us believe. I experienced most of my transgender as a EUphoria when I thought of or saw myself as a female. I was actually happy with my life and body as a man, it just wasn't the way it should be.
I have both dysphoria and sex. I struggle to shower more often than not, feel like my skin is detached from my body in the places where it's most female, physically gag at certain times of the month...
However, I can, and do, masturbate and have sex with my girlfriend. To me masturbation is simply a need, and a way of escaping my mind and my body for the few brief moments after orgasm when my brain is fuzzy enough not to comprehend much else. It's cheaper and safer than alcohol and means I don't lose my job. That's not to say I enjoy it, sometimes I've been inches away from punching walls because I know that I should ejaculate, but there's no physical way for me to do so. It's just the stimulation of a nerve ending that provides a brief period of escapism to me. Probably isn't so healthy after all.
As for sex, as long as I'm into the moment enough then I'm fine. If I'm not then I'm crying. Most times I'm so amazed by my girlfriend and thinking about her that I can't think of much else. If I begin to lose it then things get painful, but it's so far and few in between now with being in a long distance relationship that time fuzzes up my brain suitably.
For years, I HATED HATED HATED erections, and felt embarrassed, horrified, and extremely jealous of women every single time I got them. And yet despite this feeling of "wrongness," I still used the damned thing several times a week.
The process of sexual release puts your mind in a trance-like state. I kind of used it as a way to just let the fantasy overtake me, and forget about my physical limitations for a few minutes. It did trigger dysphoria, but it also let me become engrossed in a mental world where I was free from that dysphoria for a few precious minutes. Usually as I was in that mental state of release, I'd imagine that I had female parts, and really imagined the feeling, and that was the only time that I really felt like it was happening, despite the physical reality. The mind is a very powerful tool.
And, well, here I am 14 months into transition and about to go full-time. So if sexual activity disqualifies you, I guess I never got that memo.
Not everyone has such severe dysphoria that they can't even look at it. For me, it was more like wishing that I had something else, wanting it gone, but also begrudgingly accepting the limitations of what I had and trying to make the most of it in the meantime.
I have tried to masturbate a couple of times, but when I do it myself, I just cannot get the 'wrong' feelings out of my head, and I just never get to the happy-buzz orgasm phase. And since I only had a boyfriend once, and I was freaking terrified of sex or even him touching my downward space, so I never got to the orgasm phase with him either. So yeah, right now I have options open for a boy-/girlfriend who really sees me as a guy, and I think if they do it, I can stop thinking like "Oh crap this is just so wrong. This shouldn't be like this. WHERE IS MY FREAKING DICK!?", but for me to allow that... I'd have to trust someone a 120% percent and be twice as comfortable around them. Quite a lot of guys tend to crush on me, unfortunately, maybe because I'm a badass 'girl' who likes to talk about fantasy, computer games, and other kinda-nerdy stuff. But they love me as a girl, so I could never do that. Just never.
For what it is worth, pre op MtF should masturbate regularly in order to keep their penile skin pliable. In that way you have sufficient stretch for the neo vagina.
If you enjoy it, even better :laugh:
Just don't worry, feel good, relax and be you.
I agree with what others have said, having sex or masturbating has nothing to do with whether you have dysphoria. I always fantasizes I was the woman when involved with either. With sex, certain positions either made in easier or harder to do. I always felt it kinda weird to have sex with a woman, but"........
Personally, I am part of the trans crowd who can't really masturbate either...but I had a VERY sexually active life up until a couple months ago (read as sex addiction, at least once a day :S).
Admittedly my therapist says that I was living vicariously though my female partners, hence why I was obsessed with giving pleasure to them in lieu of my own, because in my head I was only having fun if she was, which makes sense to me I guess.
Now that I'm flying solo at the moment...I am TRYING to learn how to "take care" of myself (in a sexual manner...not a "Shoot them in the head and dump them in the Thames" kind of way). But yeah...it gets me very very dysphoric.
But I gotta keep trying and get the thought into my head that I AM pleasing a woman when I masturbate...because like people say, if you let your parts atrophy it can make SRS that much less effective.
Roll on the SRS!
I have GD. HRT reduced my sex drive and my GD. I use to masturbate at least 1/d and I was always a woman. Now I masturbate 1/3 weeks because I want to make sure it works. After masturbation before and after (now more so) I feel really sad because during the act being a woman feels so wonderful. I experience in my head what I think it would be like as a woman. Than afterwards the reality and sadness.
Point being masturbation and sex for me has an dysphoric expression at the end. Wonderful and ever so close but so far away and sad. For the record I have hatred for my gonads and always did. The penis is very small and eventually vagina parts.
I have to masturbate every once in a while so it uhhhhh... doesnt get uncomfortable in the ball region. But penetrative sex? Id rather die.
People have different kinds of personal dysphoria. What is most bothersome to one person may not be the same for another. For example, I am most bothered by my breasts so touching them is a no-no and I often cover them up with my binder or a blanket or something when I'm being sexual. And while I'm still bothered by my lower anatomy, I still use it because frankly it feels nice and my boyfriend and I like to be intimate. I just have to visualize creatively and not force myself when it's just not mentally happening.
I have the thing but am not happy with it and frankly, don't like having erections unless called upon by my SO to service her. We have penetrative sex for her benefit and I am very deep into fantasy as a woman during "the act". I do, however, enjoy the stimulation and do orgasm. My masturbation technique does not rely on an erection or touching "it" with my hands much so I don't have to think about having one. :(
I tried to trim off my penis when I was very little with nail scissors... I was convinced it wasn't going to hurt because it didn't feel part of me... like hair or fingernails. Turns out no. I told my mum I cut it on a barbed wire fence and she whipped me off to the doctors. I was REALLY certain it would not hurt. I had no idea I was trans.
When I first worked put how to masterbate it was circles on the tip like a girl. Pumping never occurred to me. But masterbation was constant- mainly to get rid of the discomfort.
Since then we got along begrudgingly and yep, had some good times with some great gals. But penetration left me cold. I just lost interest and felt really uneasy, so it was like a chore. The rest, however was great. I loved pleasing partners especially. The vicarious comment rings true.
My dysphoria kicks in after climax these days. I get really down afterwards, I guess it reminds me of the deal.
Roll on hormones.
Quote from: Carrie Liz on March 24, 2014, 12:18:25 AM
For years, I HATED HATED HATED erections, and felt embarrassed, horrified, and extremely jealous of women every single time I got them. And yet despite this feeling of "wrongness," I still used the damned thing several times a week.
The process of sexual release puts your mind in a trance-like state. I kind of used it as a way to just let the fantasy overtake me, and forget about my physical limitations for a few minutes. It did trigger dysphoria, but it also let me become engrossed in a mental world where I was free from that dysphoria for a few precious minutes. Usually as I was in that mental state of release, I'd imagine that I had female parts, and really imagined the feeling, and that was the only time that I really felt like it was happening, despite the physical reality. The mind is a very powerful tool.
And, well, here I am 14 months into transition and about to go full-time. So if sexual activity disqualifies you, I guess I never got that memo.
Not everyone has such severe dysphoria that they can't even look at it. For me, it was more like wishing that I had something else, wanting it gone, but also begrudgingly accepting the limitations of what I had and trying to make the most of it in the meantime.
I essentially have the male version of this. Like Carrie Liz, my imagination is strong enough to take over.
Also worth mentioning, there are two types of gender dysphoria: physical dysphoria (discomfort with your physical body) and social dysphoria (discomfort in the way society sees/treats you) My social dysphoria is quite strong, but my physical dysphoria is only mild-to-moderate.
It's called adaptability. peoplez haz it.
Genital dysphoria is a variable independent of other characteristics and it's not less or more crippling than any other type of gender/body related dysphoria.
Hmm, I've spent most of my life in denial so masturbation was never a dysphoric activity for me. I started quite young, and have enjoyed it most of my life - though I've always known that I am different sexually than most of my male friends. My masturbation is mostly mental, and it takes me much longer than most men to climax (I used to be proud of this fact until I realized it's probably because of my dysphoria). Masturbation ranges 30 minutes to an hour for me to climax, which means I don't do it very often at all. Once I came out to myself, I found it hard to masturbate at all for a while, but now I just imagine myself as a woman and I'm able to get through it, just once a week or so to keep me from going insane as I don't have an SO at the moment and not masturbating puts you into a different state of being for the most part (I've noticed).
In terms of sexual experiences though, women have always found it odd that I'd much rather go down on them then engage in penitrative sex. I've never climaxed from intercourse, and I've only climaxed a handful of times from any activity with women due to (I realize now) dysphoria.
As a child I was obsessed with female gentilia, and from the age of 5 to 8 or so, I drew myself with what I imagined was 'girl parts', over and over and then - in shame - hid the drawings or threw them away secretly. You'd think that would have been a clear indication of my dysphoria but apparently that wasn't enough for me to figure it out -_-