I have days that I have strong desires to transition. At those days I wish I had breasts, hips, a female voice, skin, etc.
Then there are days where I feel comfortable as a male and presenting that way.
Am I the only one who experiences such contradictions..? Is this normal or do androgynous people have a mixed sense of identity?
I feel exactly as you. Well almost...(Minus the boobs).
There are so many different ways to express yourself and identify with gender. When I read your post I came to think that you might be genderfluid/bigender and that's great!
I urge you to speak with a psychiatrist though. You might be trans, but I don't know.
Good luck with everything!
Quote from: 930310 on March 22, 2014, 01:34:32 PM
I feel exactly as you. Well almost...(Minus the boobs).
There are so many different ways to express yourself and identify with gender. When I read your post I came to think that you might be genderfluid/bigender and that's great!
I urge you to speak with a psychiatrist though. You might be trans, but I don't know.
Good luck with everything!
Hi and thanks for the reply.
I cannot seem to combine my 'identities' simultaneously. It's either This or That. Sometimes I strongly wish for physical change and sometimes I'm just cool as a male and feel like a boss. If I am 'bigender' than that sucks to be honest, because I can't deal with this at all. I don't know how I will feel tomorrow or Monday. I am going to see a therapist for the first time (late April). Until then I don't really know what to do, except doing a M2F make over which really excites me. During the day I don't really feel it, but when I'm alone the urges become so real.
Honestly it sounds like you are bigender to me. At one point I thought that me being bigender was a phase or a mask to hide my real female side. I went for months in female mode...then I stared having switches back and forth between female and androgyne.
It turned out that my first guess was actually correct. I'm MAAB btw.
Just like being a binary trans person, if you are in fact bigender it won't go away, and suppressing one side of you can cause mental health issues, I suppressed my female side for most of my life and even put on a fake mask to be as masculine as possible. Eventually both sides came back with a vengeance and caused me to have a breakdown accompanied with psychosomatic IBS.
It was not fun.
I'm 6 months into hrt and I have had a lot of changes, my face is definitely female now...but I can make myself androgynous still. Ironically I only suffer dysphoria from my female side, and almost none at all from my androgyne side. Even after major body and facial changes making me more female than male overall. The only time I get dysphoria in androgyne mode is sometimes I look down at my breasts and think..."what are those? They don't fit 100%", but most of the time I like them because they balance out my slightly wide shoulders.
-Skyla
It would be so damn awesome to feminize my body.. but I'm afraid of not passing and losing my sexuality.
I don't even know if it's a genuine desire or not.. maybe I'm fooling myself. I do think about it every day.
Quote from: Feather on March 22, 2014, 03:01:40 PM
It would be so damn awesome to feminize my body.. but I'm afraid of not passing and losing my sexuality.
I don't even know if it's a genuine desire or not.. maybe I'm fooling myself. I do think about it every day.
I'm assuming you're maab?
Honestly, you can only get more passable for being androgyne at this point. You can't get any less passable in androgyne mode. As for male mode...you should be able to pass if you switch your voice depending on your presentation. Generally a male voice is an instant pass or if you are me...its an instant fail at passing.
What do you mean about losing your sexuality?
-Skyla
Transition really does take commitment. Also GID is more than just a desire to look female.
Hi Feather,
You're not alone! Your description also sounds a lot like me, and I suspect many here.
Sometimes I feel very feminine, enjoy dressing and appearing female, get huge satisfaction when people consider me pretty (even though I don't pass!). It goes beyond an interest, and is not a fetish - it's a part of my identity. On those days the sight of my beard shadow makes me quite sad.
The thing is, other days I don't mind returning to male mode. I toss on some jeans and a t-shirt, and I'm ok that day. Granted, I still feminize somewhat as a guy (nails, eyebrows).
I bounce around many of these forums striving in vain to find a name for what I am. Lately I'm thinking I'll just take it easy and enjoy both sides of myself.
If you're unsure and just want to try it, there are many non-permanent things you can do to feminize yourself, and still be able to "switch back" to guy mode.
Quote from: Feather on March 22, 2014, 03:01:40 PM
It would be so damn awesome to feminize my body.. but I'm afraid of not passing and losing my sexuality.
Passing is really hard for like 95% of us. If that's your number one goal, sorry, you'll have to arm yourself with a very resilient attitude. Some of the happiest trans people I spoke with were the ones that learned how to accept and like themselves regardless of whether they pass or not. I'm beginning to slowly discover that myself.
Quote from: Feather on March 22, 2014, 03:01:40 PM
It would be so damn awesome to feminize my body.. but I'm afraid of not passing and losing my sexuality.
I don't even know if it's a genuine desire or not.. maybe I'm fooling myself. I do think about it every day.
Feather, you sound like me, about a year and a half ago. There were male and female identities fighting for mastery.
I asked myself two questions.
If I could never again act male, socialize as a male, or dress as a male, how would I feel.
Answer: Be kind of weird, but I would learn to deal.
If I could never again act female, socialize as a female, or dress as a female, how would I feel.
Answer: Like a piece of me had been cut off.
I knew then that I was female at the core, and the male part had just been grafted on from decades of living that way.
I've now been living full time as a woman for more than nine months. I never want to go back.
I didn't think I would ever pass. Now I pass nearly everywhere I go. Sexuality is a tougher issue. I can't use my male thing anymore, and have no one to use it with anyway, since only straight girls would want that, and they're not looking for someone like me. But I enjoy my body sexually several times a week (hope that's not TMI) and female orgasms alone make the whole journey worthwhile.
Physically I do not like being a man. What I like is to be preceived as having masculine characteristics.
Suzi, yes it feels like two sides fighting for supremacy. I remove facial and body hair but sometimes there is that 'male' part saying "what if others see you removed your leg hair? Just let it grow so you don't have to experience that fear". Just one of many examples. It know it's silly but that 'part' of me is overwhelming and always using fear.
Like Suzi, at one time I went through a non binary phase of sorts. I do not mean to imply that it's a phase for everyone, but there is some familiarity to your posts here, especially your last one and your fears of others reactions.
This was a question I asked myself, and I now ask you. Do you like being perceived as having masculine characteristics, or do you like the relative safety of being perceived as "normal"?
Quote from: ErinM on March 22, 2014, 11:40:12 PMThis was a question I asked myself, and I now ask you. Do you like being perceived as having masculine characteristics, or do you like the relative safety of being perceived as "normal"?
Hi,
When I say masculine characteristics I mean things such as competitiveness and boldness.. things that are traditionally associated with maleness. I like those things not because they are seen as 'masculine' but because they are simply nice characteristics to have as a human being. I have always defined myself as a human being first.
If people would consider me a 'real man' it just means little or nothing to me. I don't like it when people say I look like my male relatives and I absolutely detest it that my mother calls me 'boy'.
Quote from: Feather on March 23, 2014, 06:25:27 PM
Hi,
When I say masculine characteristics I mean things such as competitiveness and boldness.. things that are traditionally associated with maleness. I like those things not because they are seen as 'masculine' but because they are simply nice characteristics to have as a human being. I have always defined myself as a human being first.
If people would consider me a 'real man' it just means little or nothing to me. I don't like it when people say I look like my male relatives and I absolutely detest it that my mother calls me 'boy'.
I cant really tell , but from what you re saying you would seem to be fine as a woman with some masculine characteristics that from time to time you d like them to be recognisable by others?
I dunno...
Its really hard to understand yourself ...
Quote from: FalsePrincess on March 23, 2014, 06:32:37 PM
I cant really tell , but from what you re saying you would seem to be fine as a woman with some masculine characteristics that from time to time you d like them to be recognisable by others?
I dunno...
Its really hard to understand yourself ...
Yes, you are definitely right.. ;)
But there are things that just make it confusing for me.. like the attraction towards women makes me believe I could maybe become successful as a man. It is the safer path to take. But on the other hand, the desires are getting bigger and so far the process has been terrifyingly linear.
Quote from: Feather on March 23, 2014, 06:51:10 PM
Yes, you are definitely right.. ;)
But there are things that just make it confusing for me.. like the attraction towards women makes me believe I could maybe become successful as a man. It is the safer path to take. But on the other hand, the desires are getting bigger and so far the process has been terrifyingly linear.
Well I dont doubt that every mtf here could be more successful as a guy , the thing is that at somepoint all these desires and pain would just destroy everything, I lived a successful life as a guy but after a certain point I just couldnt do it anymore, I dont really know what changed...
Quote from: Feather on March 23, 2014, 06:51:10 PM
But there are things that just make it confusing for me.. like the attraction towards women makes me believe I could maybe become successful as a man.
Life is not about success, IMO. Life is adventure. True, dating has been a real challenge (still haven't figured out if it's actually impossible or just seems that way).
But how many people get to see live from both sides of the gender gap and how many live out their whole life having only tasted one side of the gender cake?
Quote from: Feather on March 23, 2014, 06:51:10 PM
Yes, you are definitely right.. ;)
But there are things that just make it confusing for me.. like the attraction towards women makes me believe I could maybe become successful as a man. It is the safer path to take. But on the other hand, the desires are getting bigger and so far the process has been terrifyingly linear.
I absolutely can relate to the feelings that not transitioning is safer. It is actually pretty common advice that if you can avoid transition then don't transition.
The thing about it is that from personal experience is that if the desire to transition is getting stronger the danger starts to come from within.
Quote from: suzifrommd on March 23, 2014, 07:19:17 PMBut how many people get to see live from both sides of the gender gap and how many live out their whole life having only tasted one side of the gender cake?
I'm afraid that I will feel awful about myself later in life if I don't do something about it now that I'm in my 20s. I already feel bad that it took me so long to actually look in the mirror and face my problems directly. I may become successful as a male (you never know) but when I picture that it just feels boring and bland. But how do I know the grass is greener on the other side (based on endless desires/dreams)??
It is not good to supress the feelings either. If you do that you will just overcharge and feel as low as the floor.
Quote from: Feather on March 24, 2014, 02:46:24 AM
But how do I know the grass is greener on the other side (based on endless desires/dreams)??
Feather, I answered this question by learning to dress and present as a woman and choosing a female name. I went out to various venues where I wouldn't be recognized (a feminist all-women's reading group that was trans-inclusive, a divorced/separated support group, various shopping expeditions, movies, renaissance fair, etc.). I got to know, albeit temporarily, what it would feel like living as a trans woman. It didn't take many of these before I knew it HAD to happen.
I have a feeling of being partly a man and partly a woman, to the point where at times it feels a lot like I'm made up of a separate male and female identity. My perception of myself is that I have a tendency to veer between a more masculine and more feminine presentation too.
In my case I'm fairly sure that I know what happened: I was exposed to a high dose of synthetic female hormones partway through the second trimester of my mother's pregnancy with me, that temporarily suppressed my testosterone production and caused the early stages of the process of "wiring up" the permanent structure of my brain to go down the female pathway instead of the male one. Although I'll probably never know for sure what happened, my mother suffered a great deal from depression when I was younger, and it has all the hallmarks of a failed attempt to end the pregnancy by taking an overdose of something (probably birth control pills).
Irrespective of what caused it, my theory is that the period of very low testosterone caused some of my brain regions to be "wired up" as female while other parts (that developed later in the pregnancy) are male, and one effect of this is that it's created enough of a division so that the male and female parts of my brain have each acquired their own separate, self-aware identities. There's the male part which has logic, reasoning and the use of language (and is the part writing this), however there's another, female, part of me who has complex movement, instinct and emotion. It's quite a tricky situation, since each part of me wants completely different things. During my childhood the differences between us weren't so great and we worked quite well together as a team, but all hell broke loose when I hit my teens, and throughout my adult life (until recently) we've basically been at war with each other. That's the theory I've come up with anyway.
The known facts are that I'm suffering from secondary hypogonadism, and have signs of having had below normal male levels of testosterone all my life. The way arousal and orgasm works in me is also a lot more like what you typically see in women rather than men too - I need foreplay, and have to gradually build up to having an orgasm via a series of peaks and troughs of arousal, rather than just continuously becoming more aroused until climax occurs (as seems to happen in most men). Although my instinct is to seek out casual sex, I've never been able to "let go" enough during sex with a stranger to actually achieve orgasm, rendering the whole exercise rather pointless. My body language is feminine to the point where, throughout my adult life, most people seem to have assumed I must be gay; and I think my instinctive behaviour in most social situations is more like that of a woman's than a man's too. However there are other parts of me that seem to be much the same as what you typically see in men, and in fact I score as quite strongly male in the brain sex tests I've tried.
In the course of trying to figure myself out, I've discovered that there is a large, hidden population of MAAB people who've ended up intersexed and/or suffering from gender dysphoria as a result of prenatal exposure to the synthetic estrogen DES. Many of their life experiences seem to closely parallel my own, which makes me fairly certain that I also was prenatally exposed to synthetic hormones. Going on what I've seen with DES, there must be literally millions of male-assigned people alive today who've had their prenatal sexual development messed up by exposure to synthetic hormones, and I've been trying to get some kind of acknowledgement that there is a problem with these drugs (so far without much success unfortunately).
There's a thread here at Susans's about DES:
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,84224.0.html
There's also a forum for bigender people at:
http://www.bigender.net/forum/index.php
A lovely sane bit of Johnson about the grass being greener,
"Such is the state of every age, every sex, and every condition: all have their cares, either from nature or from folly; and whoever, therefore, finds himself inclined to envy another, should remember that he knows not the real condition which he desires to obtain, but is certain that by indulging a vicious passion, he must lessen that happiness which he thinks already too sparingly bestowed."
Johnson: Rambler #128
I do think that there is a lot of to-ing and fro-ing at the start of an androgyne journey. My experience is to have settled into it more comfortably as time has progressed but that may not be true for everyone.
androgyne will often be very close in meaning to "still searching".
i have been searching for a few years, found comfortable places, left uncomfortable places, met with a lot of frustration and uncertainty.
in the end, i realize, i've enjoyed it all, and it all is part of me.
i'll keep on searching, and call what i do "androgyny". and one day i might surprise myself that i've settled in as only one gender. currently, i find myself hoping that this will never actually happen.
Quote from: Taka on March 27, 2014, 07:04:43 AM
androgyne will often be very close in meaning to "still searching".
i have been searching for a few years, found comfortable places, left uncomfortable places, met with a lot of frustration and uncertainty.
in the end, i realize, i've enjoyed it all, and it all is part of me.
i'll keep on searching, and call what i do "androgyny". and one day i might surprise myself that i've settled in as only one gender. currently, i find myself hoping that this will never actually happen.
Taka
I am in a similar place. I see myself as androgyne or perhaps more properly gender queer. I do not see pursuit of a binary outcome as necessary or particularly compelling. However finding balance, a self authored, authentic identity and life experience is a rare and valuable thing. This is what I cherish and this is what I seek.
Safe travels
Aisla
For me... feeling like myself does vary from day to day, sometimes more of a desire to be feminine and other times more masculine. It shifts was no predictable pattern I've noticed so far. I do lean more often toward the feminine side in general. But I do not feel like only a man or a woman. It is in between. I'm never one or the other. So my gender presentation has been more mixed to feel myself.
I think for myself I need both sides. If I was to deny one, as I did when I only presented as male and trying to suppress my femininity, I would feel wrong. I believe I need both my masculine and my feminine to be my true self and not to feel any dysphoria.
But there are moments I continue to question this... especially when I feel more feminine. But I remind myself that few have the gift to feel both sides. :)
At this point, Androgyne to me just means wearing whatever I want, styling my hair and makeup any way I want, and relating to people and things however I feel at the time without worrying about who or what I am. It's hard sometimes to stop thinking about it and let go. But if I apply any effort to my identity anymore it's that.
The only suggestion I can give is to expierement if you are concerned about how you will be treated then start with wearing female clothes that are rather androgynous on days you feel you need to present as female. I know how scary it can be to go out when you know you don't pass. Some people can be nastie but some people are really amazing. Once you loose the fear and get the confidence to just be you in public even if you don't even try to pass, it can feel amazing especially to start with. Just be you, what ever that means for you being bi-gender or fluid and needing to present in that moment can be very complex and cross dressing information my be more useful then transitioning info then again low level HRT might help to bring you into a middle space where it is a little easier to pass either way.
Right, so I did a complete make over (fully dressed, wig, make up etc. for the first time) at a tg/crossdressing place. The people were so kind and understanding. I was nervous and unsure about it first. It just felt so goddamn nice and blissful. I know without a shred of doubt I should have been born a girl. I just feel drab as a male.. like it's always raining (and not gentle rain but big hail stones). It was an amazing experience.. I felt nothing but bliss when I got home. It was unreal. Today it is daily life again as a male and the magic disappears.. :embarrassed:
Congratulations on your first night out. Glad you had such a marvelous experience. In this life, our expressions and how we interact with the world are ours to chose and to change as our heart directs.
Follow your bliss. If you feel like you, and you feel truly alive, then you are doing it right. For some of us, what that is changes from day to day; for some it becomes clear in time that we are most ourselves in one way of being. Either way it is the house of joy, and you have the only keys. -Maddie
Feather, I have the same confusion
some days I just want to be female others I am fine as a male
I always thought life would have been so much easier if I had been born as a female
I tend to want that side more