So my mom has been pressuring my wife for weeks to get the scoop on what is going on with me. She invited me over for dinner Sunday while my wife and kids were visiting relatives. I knew what she wanted and decided it was probably time to come out to her. As a background, I grew up LDS (Mormon). She and my step-dad are both active Mormons and hold some very conservative views. My mom actually has a very forceful personality at times and isn't afraid to voice her opinions. Knowing this, I went into the situation expecting the worst... and I wasn't disappointed. I realize many of the things they said were from a position they believed was out of love, but the statements were hurtful regardless. :(
Not word for word, but pretty much how many of the statements in the conversation went:
SD: You are just going through a mid-life crisis/phase, this isn't you, just give it more time. Give it ten more years and then you will realize how foolish it was.
Me: I have given it time, this started when I was 9 and has lasted for 30 years. That is not a midlife crisis or a phase.
SD: These are unnatural urges, it isn't you.
Me: No, this is me. I know my feelings and I need to do this to be my true authentic self. It is the only thing that will bring me peace and happiness.
Mom: I love you and you are a wonderful MAN.
Me: I love you too and I appreciate that you are at least trying to come from a position of love.
SD: Why would you take estrogen? You don't need that, what you need is more testosterone, that's what will help you.
Me: That would only make it worse. I've heard about others that tried this and it only caused their dysphoria to increase ten-fold. Trying to get me to take testosterone is a form of reparative therapy and it's been proven to cause far more damage than any good. All the major psychological organizations in the US agree that reparative therapy is bad.
SD: But what if it did make it go away, don't you think you owe it to yourself and your family to find out?
Me: There is no pill or magical fix to make this go away. But even if there was I would not take it. If I did then I would end up being someone else, someone that isn't me.
SD: But it is you! You would be the husband and son of God you are meant to be. I know you still believe in God and Jesus. They love you and this is wrong.
Me: Respectfully, I do not share your beliefs. I no longer believe the teachings of the church I was raised in. Not just because of their position on transgender issues.
SD: You've just conveniently changed your beliefs so that you can accept this.
Me: I didn't just conveniently change anything. One doesn't just simply uproot themselves from the belief system they were raised in. I sincerely thought about it and wrestled with it for years. For a long time I turned a blind eye from some serious issues with the church because I so desperately wanted to hold on to it as true. What changed everything is knowing the peace and happiness I felt when being myself. You know about the fruits of the spirit in Galations 5 right? Love, joy, peace, kindness, goodness... According to the teachings of the church you can't feel those things, peace and happiness, if what you are doing is wrong.
SD: Yes you can. That's just the devil, he can imitate those feelings. What you felt wasn't authentic peace and happiness.
My response: *Mental Facepalm* :eusa_doh: They were real, they were authentic. And you can't know that this is wrong. The church doesn't even have an official position, at least not publicly, on this issue. Yes, in their leadership handbook they do say that if I undergo a transsexual operation that I MAY be subject to disciplinary action. But they have no official stance, they only do on lesbian and gay rights... which I still would have a problem with even if they openly accepted transgender individuals.
SD: Well isn't that where this is going to lead to next? That you want to have sex with a man? Can't you see that you are just trying to justify your beliefs as a means to an end?
Me: That would be about my sexual orientation, which is about who I want to be with. This isn't about that at all--it's about how I identify as a person, knowing that inside I am a woman. And I don't even know if I'll want to be with a man. I haven't figured that out yet. I may just want to keep being with other women. The truth is, if (wife) wanted to be with me as a woman then I would happily stay with her. But she doesn't want to stay with me if I do this.
Mom: Well of course she wouldn't!
Me: Yes, of course she wouldn't because she's not a lesbian or bi. If I asked her to stay with me then she'd be the one living a lie. I have been through that hell and won't subject her to it.
SD: Well back to the church's stance on this. They actually do have an official position, they say that gender is eternal.
Me: Yes, they do teach that gender is eternal and that our spirits had the same gender in the premortal life as we do here on earth. But let me just frame this around your beliefs for a moment. The church also teaches that God allows for imperfections and trials in this life. Some people are born with severe disabilities. I consider myself as having just that, a disability I was born with except that no one can see it. Did you know that there are people born with ambiguous genitalia? And that it's often left up to the doctors and parents to decide if it's a boy or girl?
SD: No, that's not right...
Mom: Actually yes, it does happen. (yay mom for stepping in to my defense for once) But that isn't you...
Me: No, it's not. My point is that there are these people who don't easily fall into a category of male or female physically. There's even women who are born completely female bodied and yet they genetically have 'X' and 'Y' chromosomes that are normally attributed to being male. It's called androgen insensitivity syndrome. So tell me, if god allows these things to happen naturally is it really that far fetched for a female spirit to be born in a male body?
SD: You make a good argument but you are WRONG.
Me: Respectfully, I disagree.
SD: You've fathered children. No woman can ever father a child.
Me: *Eye-roll* ::) (starting to feel like I'm beating a brick wall) :eusa_wall:
Mom: Don't you realize you are going to destroy the lives of your precious children? They will never forgive you and will want to have nothing to do with you. They are going to move on in their lives, get married, have children, and they won't allow you to have part in any of it.
Me: You are painting out a picture of the worst case scenario. And I have considered that possibility. But the truth is the future is unknown and there are other possible outcomes too. It will be hard for them to understand and come to terms with this. But I think if they are shown love and affection from both (wife) and I then they can make it through this.
SD: You're wrong, and what makes you think (wife) is even going to let you around the kids?
Mom: Actually, I don't think she is the type of person to be vindictive about this. But she will protect her children...
SD: Yes, she will. You need to listen to us, we know what we are talking about. The kids will never get over this. They may love you because you are their father, but they will never forgive you. And think about what will happen if they ruin their own lives because of it. What if they end up on drugs or your daughter ends up slutting herself out? You will blame yourself and carry regret over what you have done the rest of your life! At least wait until the kids have grown up, when they won't be as affected.
Me: *Internally fuming* :icon_mad: (Did he really just say my daughter is going to start slutting herself out?) Actually, I've looked into several different stories from others in this situation. For the most part the kids are able to adapt and accept this better when they are younger than when they have grown up. As I said before, you can't know what is going to happen and how people react.
Mom: So have you been speaking to a counsellor or therapist about all this?
Me: Yes, I've been going to a therapist for about 10 months now.
Mom: And what's his background? Is he even a member of the church?
Me: No, she is not. I've been to an LDS family services therapist 7 years ago and they tried to project their opinions and beliefs on me and said a couple things I found very offensive. I was so turned off to therapy by that experience that I boxed all my feelings up and shoved them away for the next several years until I found myself right back where I started.
Mom: I just don't understand why you would go and listen to someone like that who is planting all these ideas in your head and not listen to us, your own family. I mean she doesn't care about you. You are just a paycheck to her. I think you just went out and found someone to agree with you and say whatever you want.
Me: She is a great therapist. And unlike the LDS therapist, she doesn't project her opinions or plant ideas in my head. I am intelligent enough to recognize when someone is trying to push their ideas and agenda on me. She has never done that. As a matter of fact, she has on more than one occasion said that had I gone to her and asked for help living with this and not transitioning, then she would have helped me do so. But she hasn't because I have never asked her to. From the beginning I have made it clear to her that this is my goal.
SD: No, you just want someone to accept and agree with you on this. That's one of the biggest problems of society today is that this (LGBT) is becoming more and more accepted. People are accepting it and it is spreading so that more and more people are becoming this way.
Me: No it is not. *God, he makes it sound like a disease* There have always been people like me as well as gays and lesbians.
SD: No there hasn't! 30-40 years ago there weren't nearly as many gays as there are today. Where do think they all were back then if they were around?
Me: Probably closeted because they lived in fear of hate and bigotry.
SD: No, they weren't around at all.
Me: Yes they were. What's changed is people have become more accepting of all the diversity in humanity and so people feel safer to come forward as their true authentic selves.
SD: You're wrong, and your kids, your family, you are going to lose all of it. Have you even considered what's going to happen with your job, do you think they will want you working for them? You're going to cause a disruption in the work force and that means they will let you go.
Me: Yes, I have considered that. There may be some there who try...
SD: Yes, and they will fire you.
Me: No, we have protections written in our corporate policies specifically over this issue, over gender identity.
SD: That's not going to stop them. If someone wants you fired they will find a way. When I was running my construction company if I had an employee do this they'd be gone. It would be a disruption to all the other workers and an employer just can't afford that. You will be unemployed and broke. And then after the money stops how friendly do you think your wife is going to be with you?
Me: Again, you are painting the worst case scenario. I am keeping record of all the positive remarks I've received at work. If they try to get rid of me underhandedly then I will fight it.
SD: Look, I know you want to make your own decisions in life and say to hell with what we are telling you. We did too when we were your age, we didn't listen to our parents either and made mistakes we've had to live with the rest of our lives. We see you now making the same kind of mistakes. We love you and don't want to see you destroy your life. Trust us and our experience. You will NEVER be happy if you do this.
Me: Well I love you too. I recognize that you are trying to come from a position of love and concern for my well being. I understand your perspective because I once adhered to the same belief system. But I disagree with you on this. You do not understand my perspective and you can't unless you have actually experienced the gender dysphoria as I have. I know what I must do to be happy with who I am. This is something that is necessary for me to do in order to achieve that.
That's not even the half of it, but eventually it just felt like we were circling back to the same arguments. I could only take a couple hours of it before I just had to get out of there. I was an emotional wreck and just couldn't take the abuse anymore. I hugged my mom as I left and convinced her to at least look into transgender issues online. She asked me to in return pray about it and read my patriarchial blessing (these are given by special 'patriarchs' in the church and perceived as guidance directly inspired from God specifically for the individual). For her sake I agreed, but I just don't believe in that stuff anymore and nothing is going to come of it.
The whole ordeal had me so emotionally shaken I cried the whole way home :'( I'm just glad to have this hurdle finally over with. Fortunately I have a loving wife that listened to me after I got home and we cuddled for a while. She is my rock. She could very well hate and resent me over this but somehow she doesn't and is supportive of me. I am sad that we will be separating, but glad that things look like we will at least still remain friends. :)
You are a fine and strong woman. My heart goes out to you, your wife and your children.
We both know there is no way for our transgender feeling to alter. We have to be who we are or at best we will be non functional depressed people.
We have the right to our lives.
My love to you
Cindy
I'm so sorry you had to endure that. I really hope they read the science and come around.
Big hugs,
Jill
Cindy, Jill, I love you girls! Thank you so much for the comforting words. It's good to hear some love and support after going through that.
It really means a great deal to me. *hugs*
Oh Alaia- what a story!
I wish you a wonderful liberation as you go forward... You are brave and strong, and things are certain to evolve more positively as people accept you and realise that your fundamentals as a human being won't change, just your gender.
Major hugs.
J
(My coming out to family is gonna happen in around 6 weeks. Keep you posted! And keep us posted!)
Wow! Given the brow beating and just plain ignorance you were subjected to I think you were very strong to not get royally p*ssed at them and angry. Congratulations! That was a big step. Remember though, that they are products of their upbringing if they too were raised LDS. And they were raised in it over a generation ago.
Quote from: Julia-Madrid on March 26, 2014, 04:19:38 AM
Oh Alaia- what a story!
I wish you a wonderful liberation as you go forward... You are brave and strong, and things are certain to evolve more positively as people accept you and realise that your fundamentals as a human being won't change, just your gender.
Major hugs.
J
(My coming out to family is gonna happen in around 6 weeks. Keep you posted! And keep us posted!)
Thanks! I actually have had some positive experiences coming out to a few others (brother and his wife, and a close friend). But they were ones I felt fairly safe coming out to. I wish you the best when you start coming out to your family. It certainly isn't easy but feels good to get it out, even if their reaction is bad.
Quote from: DiDi on March 26, 2014, 09:22:06 AM
Wow! Given the brow beating and just plain ignorance you were subjected to I think you were very strong to not get royally p*ssed at them and angry. Congratulations! That was a big step. Remember though, that they are products of their upbringing if they too were raised LDS. And they were raised in it over a generation ago.
Yeah, it was really hard biting back my tongue. But like you say, they are entrenched in that belief system so it's important to give them some leeway as they aren't meaning to be offensive. I'll have to educate them on what's acceptable slowly.
Wow, I'm so sorry that you had to go through that. I love how you kept calm and nicely refuted her in everything. It takes a strong person to do that. Now that you have told her, there's no reason to hold back from the true you.
-big hugs- I really hope that she comes around. I would keep trying.
First Alai :icon_hug:
I wish things could be different for you. If it makes any difference my son (15) started off mad and wanted to move, but after being full time since January 1st he slipped and called me Mom the other day and it has been life as normal since. Kids are amazingly resilient and accept things far better than adults. I am pretty sure yours will too. Kudos to your wife for comforting you afterwards. I hope the friendship remains. :)
I'm new to this site (and 6 weeks on T) and was looking for info on coming out to my family (I'm older).
I was so moved by your courage as well as your responses.
That must have been a brutal emotional experience to go through.
Like you said you've faced this emotional hurdle. Hopefully as the hurt and shock eases you'll feel more freedom.
They threw everything in the book at you but you responded in ways that was still respectful to them.
I admire the way you handled this and am glad you had someone to go home to who could hold you. I can't imagine going through that (although I'll probably face the same sort of issues with my family).
I"m sending hugs to where ever you are!
Thing is... you've told them now! Congrats! Having recently done the same thing I know it's not easy, but regardless of the outcome at least the deed is done and you can move forward. Hopefully they will come around but it might involve some significant grief and denial first.
Thank you for sharing this! Stay brave and resolute... You ARE doing the right thing and sometimes the right thing is just difficult...
Quote from: Malachite on March 27, 2014, 11:49:04 PM
Wow, I'm so sorry that you had to go through that. I love how you kept calm and nicely refuted her in everything. It takes a strong person to do that. Now that you have told her, there's no reason to hold back from the true you.
-big hugs- I really hope that she comes around. I would keep trying.
Thanks! I'm not out of the woods yet though, I still have to tell my dad and the rest of my family and friends. I expect things to be just as difficult with several of them. But making it through that discussion with my mom and step-dad was very empowering. I know I can stand up to anything they throw my way now.
Quote from: Jessica Merriman on March 28, 2014, 12:09:26 AM
First Alai :icon_hug:
I wish things could be different for you. If it makes any difference my son (15) started off mad and wanted to move, but after being full time since January 1st he slipped and called me Mom the other day and it has been life as normal since. Kids are amazingly resilient and accept things far better than adults. I am pretty sure yours will too. Kudos to your wife for comforting you afterwards. I hope the friendship remains. :)
*hugs* That's wonderful to hear your son is coming around for you Jessica! I do hope that with time my family will come around to love and accept me as well.
Quote from: TRyan on March 29, 2014, 04:11:53 PM
I'm new to this site (and 6 weeks on T) and was looking for info on coming out to my family (I'm older).
I was so moved by your courage as well as your responses.
That must have been a brutal emotional experience to go through.
Like you said you've faced this emotional hurdle. Hopefully as the hurt and shock eases you'll feel more freedom.
They threw everything in the book at you but you responded in ways that was still respectful to them.
I admire the way you handled this and am glad you had someone to go home to who could hold you. I can't imagine going through that (although I'll probably face the same sort of issues with my family).
I"m sending hugs to where ever you are!
Thank you Ryan, I really appreciate it! *hugs* It was certainly difficult but I'm much happier having gotten past it. In proclaiming my true identity I am slowly shedding away the pretense of this person I never was--and it feels wonderful! I wish you the best for when you begin coming out to your family. Hopefully it won't be as harsh :)
Quote from: Ms Grace on March 29, 2014, 04:39:22 PM
Thing is... you've told them now! Congrats! Having recently done the same thing I know it's not easy, but regardless of the outcome at least the deed is done and you can move forward. Hopefully they will come around but it might involve some significant grief and denial first.
Thanks! I am glad to be past that hurdle but yeah, she's going through some pretty bitter grief right now. My step-dad sent me the following about it:
QuoteI don't wish to cause you any more grief. But, if the anguish and pain that your mom is going through is any
indication of what your children are going to experience, you will not do this. You are breaking her heart
as you will your children's. And it will be up to your wife to pick up the pieces. (Mom) has been sobbing all
evening. Please, get on your knees and ask the Lord for help. Turn back to Him and he will help you overcome
this terrible choice and action before it is irreversible. I know it will bring you great sorrow and misery,
and you will bring sorrow and misery to those that you claim to love. We all have to make sacrifices for the
most important things in our lives. Please reconsider. Your moms well being is at stake.
It tears at my heart to hear the pain she is in, just as it did to watch my wife grieve when I told her... but I have a right to my happiness! And my happiness is predicated on me being my authentic self, theirs is not. They can choose to accept me and love me for who I am, I cannot choose to be happy being someone I'm not. I've tried it, it doesn't work and it just ends up causing more pain and bitterness.
I've been putting off responding the the emails and texts they've sent me, but will probably send them a thoughtful letter tomorrow. They are still in shock over this, and it's obviously going to take them lots of time to adjust to the idea.
Quote from: gina26pt2 on March 29, 2014, 08:33:57 PM
Thank you for sharing this! Stay brave and resolute... You ARE doing the right thing and sometimes the right thing is just difficult...
Thanks for the reassurance Gina! I don't know if I consider myself brave, it's just something that had to be done. I remember being so scared to start into that conversation... I almost didn't, I seriously considered chickening out. And then when I told them and got into that huge discussion--I'm not sure how I managed to endure it for 2 hours! Later my mom commented to my wife about how much I was trembling when I hugged her before leaving that night. She was concerned whether I was okay :)
Just remember, you haven't hurt her... her own response is what's hurting her.
I've lost several dear friends to religious groups that have in one way or another convinced said friends that associating with me and other liberal open minded people would lead to their downfall and disgrace from god. Some have made it back, other have not.
The one thing I have learned is that debating religion is futile and pointless, the only way to express myself in meaningful terms under these circumstances is using emotional statements, telling a friend that they will always have me as a friend and a shoulder to rely on is much more powerful than questioning the basis or validity of the religion.
Quote from: Ms Grace on March 30, 2014, 03:08:08 AM
Just remember, you haven't hurt her... her own response is what's hurting her.
Yeah, I don't shoulder that burden of shame. I prefer to blame it on the intolerance and hurtful beliefs being passed on by many within the conservative and religious right. I even tried to frame this within their belief system but they still see it as wrong. It is just a mindset that they have followed for years and will be difficult to overcome. I can only be patient and show her love. I do think she'll come around someday.
Quote from: antonia on March 30, 2014, 03:09:37 AM
I've lost several dear friends to religious groups that have in one way or another convinced said friends that associating with me and other liberal open minded people would lead to their downfall and disgrace from god. Some have made it back, other have not.
The one thing I have learned is that debating religion is futile and pointless, the only way to express myself in meaningful terms under these circumstances is using emotional statements, telling a friend that they will always have me as a friend and a shoulder to rely on is much more powerful than questioning the basis or validity of the religion.
Yeah, I made a point not to attack their religion because I know that goes nowhere fast. I only stated that I didn't share their beliefs, and also tried to explain things within the context of their beliefs to show that it can be accepted. Sorry to hear that you've had several good friends turn their backs on you through this. It's a sad reality we face though with so much intolerance and bigotry being taught from the pulpit. I agree that reinforcing the emotional bonds is the best thing to do. We can show them love and invite them into our lives, but only they can choose to step away from fear and hate.
wow, that was a very interesting read, it pains me how some people can be so close minded and not think about your answers! which were great by the by, you refuted every religious cliché things they said, and a bit more, but it's amazing how they refuse to listen
it must have been very painful to go through that, *hugs*
Quote from: Alaia on March 30, 2014, 02:45:11 AM
Thanks! I am glad to be past that hurdle but yeah, she's going through some pretty bitter grief right now. My step-dad sent me the following about it:
Quote
I don't wish to cause you any more grief. But, if the anguish and pain that your mom is going through is any indication of what your children are going to experience, you will not do this. You are breaking her heart as you will your children's. And it will be up to your wife to pick up the pieces. (Mom) has been sobbing all evening. Please, get on your knees and ask the Lord for help. Turn back to Him and he will help you overcome this terrible choice and action before it is irreversible. I know it will bring you great sorrow and misery, and you will bring sorrow and misery to those that you claim to love. We all have to make sacrifices for the most important things in our lives. Please reconsider. Your moms well being is at stake.
It tears at my heart to hear the pain she is in, just as it did to watch my wife grieve when I told her... but I have a right to my happiness! And my happiness is predicated on me being my authentic self, theirs is not. They can choose to accept me and love me for who I am, I cannot choose to be happy being someone I'm not. I've tried it, it doesn't work and it just ends up causing more pain and bitterness.
I've been putting off responding the the emails and texts they've sent me, but will probably send them a thoughtful letter tomorrow. They are still in shock over this, and it's obviously going to take them lots of time to adjust to the idea.
it's pretty amazing to me how hypocrite what your step-dad wrote is, they barely consider your feelings and blame your for their lack of acceptance, when they do consider your feelings they say you shouldn't transition because you should make sacrifices, but at no point they consider that THEY should make a sacrifice of accepting you as well, it's all about them, maybe you should tell them to see things from your point of view a bit, how this has made you feel throughout your whole life
i think your mother is also very sad because she may think it was her fault, you should try to explain that it's not her fault and that you love her, apart from that i thikn you should give them some time to see if (hopefully) they can consider your answers, after you give it some time, i think maybe you should send some things about transgender people, like explaining who we are, what we go throught, etc, for them to have a less biased view than what they have now
also, about your children, they will probably take it well once they notice how much happier you will become, children are usually very receptive, it's when hateful adults put things in their heads that they sometimes become reflections of hateful adults, and later become bullies and other things