Hello guys and dolls.
I want to pose some questions to feminists or those schooled in feminism. Men schooled in feminism are encouraged to participate also.
Why is the 'no binary' thing so central to feminism?
I don't speak Feminish, but from what I gather from the militant rants I've been subjected to -
One of the core beliefs of this doctrine is the theory that the sole difference between males and females is the body. No binary, just complimenting reproductive systems.
This theory explains why some feminists are so opposed to transsexuality.
Why did the foremothers of feminism adopt this theory?
How does recognizing the inherent differences between men and women negate equality?
Isn't feminism about all that is 'Woman'?
Why isn't feminism a monument to the unique qualities that make women different to men?
Why isn't feminism a celebration of womanhood? (because it ain't if the only difference is penis vs vagina)
Why do feminists cling to this view when the rest of the world recognizes that Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus?
Again, I don't speak feminist tongue, so feel free to correct me if I've translated wrong.
The only terms I know are 'patriarchy', misogyny', and 'binary'. Picked up from the militant rants I've been subjected to.
So, in layman's terms please.
Nero
I thought I was a feminist, but after reading your thread, I don't think I am. Too much headache, and I already have enough of those lately... ;)
tink :icon_chick:
Quote from: Nero on July 18, 2007, 12:31:40 AM
Hello guys and dolls.
I want to pose some questions to feminists or those schooled in feminism. Men schooled in feminism are encouraged to participate also.
Why is the 'no binary' thing so central to feminism?
I don't speak Feminish, but from what I gather from the militant rants I've been subjected to -
One of the core beliefs of this doctrine is the theory that the sole difference between males and females is the body. No binary, just complimenting reproductive systems.
This theory explains why some feminists are so opposed to transsexuality.
Why did the foremothers of feminism adopt this theory?
How does recognizing the inherent differences between men and women negate equality?
Isn't feminism about all that is 'Woman'?
Why isn't feminism a monument to the unique qualities that make women different to men?
Why isn't feminism a celebration of womanhood? (because it ain't if the only difference is penis vs vagina)
Why do feminists cling to this view when the rest of the world recognizes that Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus?
Again, I don't speak feminist tongue, so feel free to correct me if I've translated wrong.
The only terms I know are 'patriarchy', misogyny', and 'binary'. Picked up from the militant rants I've been subjected to.
So, in layman's terms please.
Nero
The feminists I know , including myself- I am a feminist, believe that sex differences do exist.
It is impossible to deny the fact that men are different than women on some levels.
For example, men might be better in spatial task, women are better in locating objects.
Feminists don't want to overemphasizes the sex differences because "biology is not destiny".
While there are a lot of differences between the sexes, one has to admit that there is a lot of differences within the sexes.
You cannot know what someone is like simply because of their gender.
A man can have more feminine characteristics than a woman, for example.
And feminism is not just about women. For me, feminism is about challenging the ideologies that sustain patriarchy and compulsory heterosexuality.
Feminism should not just serve the interest of women, but it should also serve the interests of anyone who has been oppressed or limited by the ideology (and social rules) that says the following :
men are superior than women and/or
that men and women should have different social status and roles because of the supposed sex differences between the sexes and/or
that real men cannot be gay (or real women cannot be lesbians )
and/or that women should be more sexually reserved than men
and/or that men should be the head of the household
and/or men are better in leadership position, especially in times of emergency
Feminism is very board, of course. There are liberal feminists, socialist feminists and conservative feminists.
I like socialism , but I don't believe in the complete elmination of captialism.
Feminism is humanism, it should be for everybody.
Respect of the differences between men and women should be the core focus. Women have contributed to humankind in so many ways. I might be a little crude here so pardon me. I think some feminists are trying to prove that they are women just like some men are trying to prove that they are men. If someone doesn't know that by now, I feel pity for them. To me it's wasted energy that can be better spent on the things that really oppress people.
Respecting difference is about appreciating that person for who THEY are, not what we think they should be. People who have touched my life were men and women who went outside the box.
Gennee
Quote from: Nero on July 18, 2007, 12:31:40 AM
This theory explains why some feminists are so opposed to transsexuality.
Why did the foremothers of feminism adopt this theory?
The feminists I know at college are not opposed to ->-bleeped-<-/transsexuality. I think the number of feminists opposed to TG/TS is small and more on the radical side of the feminist movement.
Quote from: Nero on July 18, 2007, 12:31:40 AM
Isn't feminism about all that is 'Woman'?
Why isn't feminism a monument to the unique qualities that make women different to men?
AFAIK, feminism is a social movement that promotes the equality of the two sexes/genders. Feminism is meant to show others that women are equal to men despite the differences in their bodies.
Also, pretty much what asiangurliee said nicely sums up my view too:
Quote from: asiangurliee on July 18, 2007, 12:44:16 AM
And feminism is not just about women. For me, feminism is about challenging the ideologies that sustain patriarchy and compulsory heterosexuality.
Feminism should not just serve the interest of women, but it should also serve the interests of anyone who has been oppressed or limited by the ideology (and social rules) that says the following :
men are superior than women [they're definitely not] and/or
that men and women should have different social status and roles because of the supposed sex differences between the sexes [they shouldn't] and/or
that real men cannot be gay (or real women cannot be lesbians ) [they can be and are]
and/or that women should be more sexually reserved than men [they're not and shouldn't have to be]
and/or that men should be the head of the household [they shouldn't]
and/or men are better in leadership position, especially in times of emergency [they're not]
Feminism is very board, of course. There are liberal feminists, socialist feminists and conservative feminists.
I like socialism , but I don't believe in the complete elmination of captialism.
Feminism is humanism, it should be for everybody.
to me feminism is about recognizing gender role expectations and being knowledgeable enough to either choose them freely, or not choose them at all. it is also about raising awareness of these expectations and making it known that they are not [natural] nor [required] in order to be a [real woman and/or man.]
it is also about equal opportunities. opportunities should not be limited because of gender, real or perceived. certain biological things cannot be made equal but there can be similar opportunities in place for all parties in these instances.
the sexists have nearly won though; they've convinced many that feminism is the same as male-bashing (and femininity-bashing). a feminist is a person who accepts the idea that women are human beings. we are not property; we need not be slaves or servants.
i believe that true feminism also recognizes the oppression of men by societal expectations. i.e, don't show your feelings. go earn; while your children grow up in your absence. to name two crushing examples.
one of the things that bugs me the most when people talk about feminism is the assumption that all feminists are women. come on, people? how many men have to proclaim themselves feminist, openly, and live it, before we drop that hideous idea that only women are interested in genuine equality and mutual respect? nothing against you nero. ;)
Quote from: Katia on July 21, 2007, 10:44:05 AM
the sexists have nearly won though; they've convinced many that feminism is the same as male-bashing (and femininity-bashing).
They do seem to be succeeding. For people that really know nothing of the movement, we've just heard that they hate men and look to break up the traditional family structure. (sat through sermons on it as a kid ::))
(Picture big, balding preacher screeching at the top of his lungs.)
"
...And look what is becoming of the women in today's society. Turning away from their roles as wife and mother. Discarding their true nature. Rejecting their feminity. We must bring our women back to the fold. Open up your bibles to chapter X verse X and see what the Lord has to say about...." ::)
And there is a small rather loud group of feminists who seem to be giving the others a bad rap. (Until the answers here, I thought they were the majority.) The ones who constantly man-bash, frivolously throw around the words 'sexism', 'patriarchy', and 'misogyny', and hate transpeople (mtfs -
'the patriarchy is infiltrating our base', and ftms -
'giving in to the patriarchy') ::)
I'm pleased to hear these are not the majority of feminists.
I used to work in a room full of feminists and to hear them talk it sounded like they had more respect and treated their pets better than their husbands or boyfriends. Let's just say for arguments sake that some people are better than others, that doesn't justify treating someone with less kindness than you would show you're dog. So what if you think that someone is inferior to you that doesn't give you the right punish them for it or to force your will on them. It would serve us well if we always held on to the possibility that we might be wrong. Some of the worst atrocities ever comitted were done by those who were certain that what they were doing was the right thing.
The movement, I think would be greater if it promoted gender equality for both men and women, on an equal basis. It promotes the benefits of autonomy, power, finances, sexual awareness, and self-assertiveness for women, in the meantime the only femininity for men seems quite negative. Help nurture children, get in touch with emotions, and help out domestically, 3 qualities that although are traditionally feminine gender roles, I do not think they are the best qualities that femininity holds.
Rather I think that when transgendered person cross the line, I dont know if feminist find that all too attractive, despite the teachings of androgynous model and relationships.
I think its flawed in that it promotes men to be ideal for women, not to explore the richness and full benefits of femininity.
It does not pursue male reproduction and birth abilities, feminine gender expression in men, nor feminine seduction in relationship gender roles. It does not pursue equal say in abortions. It does not promote equal childhood custody (men as much as women). It does not pursue men receiving alimony from higher paid partners. Nor the pink glass ceiling for men entering traditionally female jobs. It does not pursue men or transgender entering beauty contests such as Miss Universe. It does not pursue men to feel and enjoy being beautiful and serene.
I think the movements one sided view, prohibits and limits the universal appeal from all genders.
Women make her own final decision with regard to abortion. *Her* body , *her* choice.
Quote from: Ken/Kendra on July 21, 2007, 12:48:11 PM
It does not pursue male reproduction and birth abilities, feminine gender expression in men, nor feminine seduction in relationship gender roles. It does not pursue equal say in abortions. It does not promote equal childhood custody (men as much as women). It does not pursue men receiving alimony from higher paid partners. Nor the pink glass ceiling for men entering traditionally female jobs. It does not pursue men or transgender entering beauty contests such as Miss Universe. It does not pursue men to feel and enjoy being beutiful and serene.
I think the movements one sided view, prohibits and limits the universal appeal from all genders.
Yeah. There are certain situations where men do not have equal rights to women.
Quote from: Ken/Kendra on July 21, 2007, 12:48:11 PM
It does not pursue male reproduction and birth abilities, feminine gender expression in men, nor feminine seduction in relationship gender roles. It does not pursue equal say in abortions. It does not promote equal childhood custody (men as much as women). It does not pursue men receiving alimony from higher paid partners. Nor the pink glass ceiling for men entering traditionally female jobs. It does not pursue men or transgender entering beauty contests such as Miss Universe. It does not pursue men to feel and enjoy being beautiful and serene.
I think the movements one sided view, prohibits and limits the universal appeal from all genders.
Nor should it. As asiangurliee said:
Quote from: asiangurliee on July 21, 2007, 12:52:12 PM
Women make her own final decision with regard to abortion. *Her* body , *her* choice.
A woman's body is her own and she is the sole person who can make a decision about having an abortion or giving birth and keeping the baby or giving it up for adoption. Whatever her decision is, it is her's. Neither men nor the government, or anyone else has any right to tell a woman what to do with her body.
As for the other things you said, in the early feminist movement during the First Wave (1848-1920) and Second Wave (1960s-1980s) the movement was one sided. This has slowly been changing during the Third Wave (1980s-Present)
~Fae
Ok with that being said, they dont pursue that all responsibility for all children are the women's , and then men do not have any responsibility fininancially, being that they have no control on weither or not one has that baby. Or in raising/nurturing a child.
QuoteOk with that being said, they dont pursue that all responsibility for all children are the women's , and then men do not have any responsibility fininancially, being that they have no control on weither or not one has that baby. Or in raising/nurturing a child.
BUZZZ! Wrong answer! Would you like to try another door?
If men want to have control as to whether their sperm creates a child or not, all that they have to do is to keep it out of a woman's reproductive organs. It's THAT simple. If he does not, he is liable for half the costs of raising that child, even if he had no say so as to whether the child was to be born or aborted. His control in the situation ceases the moment his sperm makes contact with her body. Done. In for a penny, in for a pound. Is it fair? The question is moot. Don't like it? Talk to the hand.
Nature may have given men a raw deal as to how much they contribute to childbearing and child rearing, but that is just the way it is. When men can carry the child to term, than the rules can change. Until then, he is at her mercy. Nuff said.
Quote from: Thundra on July 21, 2007, 11:15:51 PM
QuoteOk with that being said, they dont pursue that all responsibility for all children are the women's , and then men do not have any responsibility fininancially, being that they have no control on weither or not one has that baby. Or in raising/nurturing a child.
BUZZZ! Wrong answer! Would you like to try another door?
If men want to have control as to whether their sperm creates a child or not, all that they have to do is to keep it out of a woman's reproductive organs. It's THAT simple. If he does not, he is liable for half the costs of raising that child, even if he had no say so as to whether the child was to be born or aborted. His control in the situation ceases the moment his sperm makes contact with her body. Done. In for a penny, in for a pound. Is it fair? The question is moot. Don't like it? Talk to the hand.
Nature may have given men a raw deal as to how much they contribute to childbearing and child rearing, but that is just the way it is. When men can carry the child to term, than the rules can change. Until then, he is at her mercy. Nuff said.
Women having control of their own bodies has been one of the key issues within the feminist movement. If the woman decides to have the child, then the man can have a say once it is born, but while that child is in the woman's body it is part of her body and he has no say. Ever.
~Fae
I do believe it is a woman's choice. It is her body. Yes, it is a fetus with the potential to grow, but until it is viable, it is a part of her body. There is a difference between infanticide and abortion. The newborn is alive and has breathed. The fetus has not and is a parasite (technically). Until something has breathed (ie lived), it cannot be murdered and is a part of the body supporting it.
Hmmmn so what exactly are we talking about here? Abortion? the death penalty? Euthanasia? Oh, I have recently changed my views, so I'm sure some of you will be able to relate to what I have to say.
:icon_chick:
Quote from: Tink on July 22, 2007, 01:05:57 AM
Hmmmn so what exactly are we talking about here? Abortion? the death penalty? Euthanasia? Oh, I have recently changed my views, so I'm sure some of you will be able to relate to what I have to say.
:icon_chick:
Somewhere along the line we got into abortion, but let's steer this topic back on track, and continue talking about what exactly feminism is and answer some of Nero's questions. ;D
~Fae
Well, abortion is a feminist issue.
Didnt mean to focus on abortion, but the 8 or 9 issues in my first post together. Abortions not really something I think about, though I believe some natural inequalities arrive, just because of limits that may in the future be surpassed. Certainly I would rather anyone could get pregnant by anyone else, or that pregnancy would be not needed. (for androgynes, sterile couples, gay, lesbian, transsexuals, widows, or even single responsible persons). I apologize if my post sidetracked the posts.
I will answer Nero's questions best I can.
Quote from: Nero on July 18, 2007, 12:31:40 AM
Hello guys and dolls.
I want to pose some questions to feminists or those schooled in feminism. Men schooled in feminism are encouraged to participate also.
Why is the 'no binary' thing so central to feminism?
Because they figured out women can take traditionally male 'powers' and rewards, because they are universal and androgynous traits. And that the only main thing to worry about is the stereotyping and acceptance of a culture. But that culture can change.
Quote
I don't speak Feminish, but from what I gather from the militant rants I've been subjected to -
One of the core beliefs of this doctrine is the theory that the sole difference between males and females is the body. No binary, just complimenting reproductive systems.
This theory explains why some feminists are so opposed to transsexuality.
Why did the foremothers of feminism adopt this theory?
I dont know the details here
Quote
How does recognizing the inherent differences between men and women negate equality?
I think biological limits prohibit men (from either a male or female impregnator) from having babies and women from impregnating either men or women. I think that other differences that have been traditional in the past can more of be equal (strength, emotions, nurturing, etc) despite biology.
Quote
Isn't feminism about all that is 'Woman'?
For the most part except limited male equality view of having men take on more domestic, nurturing, and getting in touch with emotions. Though its more about assuming men are more privileged and more of heterosexual, type A personality, irresponsible, uncaring, selfish people.
QuoteWhy isn't feminism a monument to the unique qualities that make women different to men?
Dont know
Quote
Why isn't feminism a celebration of womanhood? (because it ain't if the only difference is penis vs vagina)
Dont know
Quote
Why do feminists cling to this view when the rest of the world recognizes that Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus?
I believe in androgynous personalities, but not that everyone is androgynous, nor should be.
Quote
Again, I don't speak feminist tongue, so feel free to correct me if I've translated wrong.
The only terms I know are 'patriarchy', misogyny', and 'binary'. Picked up from the militant rants I've been subjected to.
So, in layman's terms please.
Nero
Just know a few.
Quote from: Ken/Kendra on July 23, 2007, 07:44:43 AM
Didnt mean to focus on abortion, but the 8 or 9 issues in my first post together. Abortions not really something I think about, though I believe some natural inequalities arrive, just because of limits that may in the future be surpassed. Certainly I would rather anyone could get pregnant by anyone else, or that pregnancy would be not needed. (for androgynes, sterile couples, gay, lesbian, transsexuals, widows, or even single responsible persons). I apologize if my post sidetracked the posts.
Nah. I like to let the posts flow to wherever provided it has some relation to the topic. Makes for better conversation.
Quote from: Ken/Kendra on July 23, 2007, 07:44:43 AM
Quote
I don't speak Feminish, but from what I gather from the militant rants I've been subjected to -
One of the core beliefs of this doctrine is the theory that the sole difference between males and females is the body. No binary, just complimenting reproductive systems.
This theory explains why some feminists are so opposed to transsexuality.
Why did the foremothers of feminism adopt this theory?
I dont know the details here
I don't believe the foremothers adopted this theory, since feminism technically started in the late 1800s with women wanting more of a role than just housekeepers. I think this theory appeared later when TG/TS became more publicly known during the 1950s and 60s.
I think the main objection
some feminists have towards TG/TS is that those individuals who are TG/TS and decide to transition are encroaching on women's space and somehow have alternative motives (i.e. bringing down the feminist movement, etc.)
Can we please keep in mind that not all feminists are opposed to TG/TS? I know several feminists at school, both male and female, who are fully supportive of my ->-bleeped-<- and my decision to transition.
Quote
Isn't feminism about all that is 'Woman'?
Technically yes, though in recent years the movement has been slowly focusing, in one way or another, on equality for everyone: male, female, and TG/TS
QuoteWhy isn't feminism a monument to the unique qualities that make women different to men?
The movement, AFAIK, is meant as a means of empowerment for women to celebrate who they are as women, however, the main focus is to bring equality between the sexes, not to celebrate the differences, but this is not the case for all feminists.
I think we need to be clear that there are many differing views within the feminist movement, and to make statements such as "all feminists are..." only hurts the movement because it creates negative stereotypes.
Quote
Why isn't feminism a celebration of womanhood? (because it ain't if the only difference is penis vs vagina)
See previous
Quote
Again, I don't speak feminist tongue, so feel free to correct me if I've translated wrong.
The only terms I know are 'patriarchy', misogyny', and 'binary'. Picked up from the militant rants I've been subjected to.
So, in layman's terms please.
Nero
Simply put, patriarchy is the system which society exists today, where men are the dominant sex. Society is created by men, for men, and ruled by men. Under the patriarchy, women are seen as submissive and less than men. The continued existence of the patriarchy only serves to perpetuate the continued inequality of women.
I don't know about the other two terms.
~Fae
QuoteSimply put, patriarchy is the system which society exists today, where men are the dominant sex. Society is created by men, for men, and ruled by men. Under the patriarchy, women are seen as submissive and less than men. The continued existence of the patriarchy only serves to perpetuate the continued inequality of women.
I don't know about the other two terms.
~Fae
Well said, well said! Here, here!
It's so refreshing to see so many well versed in the ideology and the terminolgy today. Asiangurlie, and now Fae, you make me smile and warm my heart.
QuoteWomen make her own final decision with regard to abortion. *Her* body , *her* choice.
Exactly Asiangurlee! A parallel thought regarding transwomen and transmen, our bodies, our choice. I believe this choice is supported by feminism. Feminist thought also encompasses raising ones awareness of patriarchy, racism, homophobia, classism, and their effects on all of us, women, men and others outside the binary. I don't hate men, I know men who are compassionate and caring. I reject male priviledge, however it's important to recognize ways in which it has been granted it to me regardless to whether I wanted it or not.
zythyra
Quote from: Thundra on July 28, 2007, 07:34:58 PM
QuoteSimply put, patriarchy is the system which society exists today, where men are the dominant sex. Society is created by men, for men, and ruled by men. Under the patriarchy, women are seen as submissive and less than men. The continued existence of the patriarchy only serves to perpetuate the continued inequality of women.
I don't know about the other two terms.
~Fae
Well said, well said! Here, here!
It's so refreshing to see so many well versed in the ideology and the terminolgy today. Asiangurlie, and now Fae, you make me smile and warm my heart.
;)
Quote from: zythyra on July 29, 2007, 12:09:18 PM
QuoteWomen make her own final decision with regard to abortion. *Her* body , *her* choice.
Exactly Asiangurlee! A parallel thought regarding transwomen and transmen, our bodies, our choice.
*claps* My thoughts exactly! ;D
Quote from: gennee on July 19, 2007, 12:41:42 PM
Respect of the differences between men and women should be the core focus. Women have contributed to humankind in so many ways. I might be a little crude here so pardon me. I think some feminists are trying to prove that they are women just like some men are trying to prove that they are men. If someone doesn't know that by now, I feel pity for them. To me it's wasted energy that can be better spent on the things that really oppress people.
Respecting difference is about appreciating that person for who THEY are, not what we think they should be. People who have touched my life were men and women who went outside the box.
Gennee
This is so true Gennee. Respecting and appreciating people for who they are is paramount. To many times I hear others say how they think I should be, how I should look or dress. I don't need to prove who I am as I know who I am and act accordingly.
Linda Ann :angel:
Quote from: regina on August 08, 2007, 08:06:24 PM
I don't agree with you that the 'rest of the world' believes men are from Mars-women are from Venus. Why don't you talk about what you believe instead of referring to what 'the rest of the world' believes, wouldn't that be more fair?
By that statement, I meant that most of the world agrees that men and women have differences besides the organ between their legs. Some feminists believe the body is the sole difference between men and women. That they are the same as men only with breasts and a vagina. Some of the feminists who do admit there are differences between male and female besides the sex organs, attribute the differences to hormones. (which I have had many long debates with feminists on. And incidentally, the reason I was so vehement with this on my hormone thread)
I believe there are fundamental differences between men and women. The most clear of these differences to me, is the way women react to situations differently than men. They behave differently, they communicate differently - and this is true even of tomboyish or butch women.
Now mind you, I am NOT saying that women all act the same. I'm saying that in conversation or just hanging out, I can tell when I'm speaking with a female.
This is never more blatantly obvious than in the midst of a debate or argument. That's when even TS put their guard down and forget whether they're 'behaving' male or female.
I would think that TS persons would share this view that there's more to being a man or woman than just sex organs or hormones.
If not, why transition to the opposite sex if it's all the same? If an mtf needs estrogen to make her a woman, then why transition in the first place? Why the dysphoria? If she doesn't already think and feel like a woman, what could be her motive for transition?
To wear pretty clothes? To get men? To live out a fantasy?
You see where I'm going with this? And why the 'Estrogen made me think and feel like a woman' statement irritates me?
Nero will address the remainder of your post later.
Quote from: regina on August 09, 2007, 01:42:52 PM
In terms of your hrt opinion... not so certain I totally agree. No, I don't think hrt will make you think like a woman. You either think that way or not. But I do believe that a lifetime of exposure to T (combined with socialization) does have some powerful repressive properties (yes, I know I'm massively biased) and that minimizing the effects of T does help liberate some people, and free their minds to express feelings and ways of expression they couldn't allow themselves before. Does that create the behavior? I believe no. But does it allow the repressed behaviors and feelings to become expressed, yeah, I think so. And again, not the same for everyone.
That's pretty much along the lines of the conversation MEW (Melissa) and I had the other day. She's one of the ones who insists she thinks and feels female on HRT. So then we theorized maybe it
isn't the estrogen, but the lack of T. Which makes sense when you think about it. If a genetic woman has a little too much T in her system, it can overpower the E and shift her body shape to a more masculine look. Which is pretty much the same thing that happens on HRT. It shifts the body shape. Even a small amount of T can overpower E. E is so much weaker.
While having the wrong body parts is equally discomforting for mtf and ftm, maybe the wrong hormone situation isn't equal. The only bad thing with E (besides physical stuff) is the menses and the strong surge of it shortly beforehand - that's really the only time I'm uncomfortable with it, because it does induce emotional stuff.
Maybe testosterone in a female is more drastic and uncomfortable than estrogen in a male. Because it is so much more powerful. I would think T would be more of an affront to the female's sensibilities than E for a male (of course some ftms may disagree). I mean, estrogen really doesn't do all that much. Except make one more emotional - a trait I'm going to miss once on HRT, as it's so much the better for creating and writing.
I think estrogen should feel completely natural to a female and T for a male. Natural, not make you something you weren't before.
So yes, I agree with you that being free of T may be responsible for some effects some ladies are feeling.
MEW: Anything you want to add to this?
I agree with what was said before with regards to feminism being humanism. To me it's about equality and acceptance. I feel like sex is one thing, and it should not pre-determine anything. Whereas gender is actually more about who you are and how you are expressing yourself. And that is much more malleable and these days increasingly fluid. In some ways I feel like genderqueer is kind of the forefront of where a lot of people in society would be right now if we weren't so attached at the roots to a binary system. Or at least that is sort of more a shot in the right direction. Because I do feel like sometimes that trans people are so hellbent to be accepted, that they may run away from aspects of themselves that they don't particularly really dislike, or feel uncomfortable with, just so that they will fit in better. And a large part of that pressure IS that the medical community and psychiatric community have set themselves up as our gatekeepers, and I don't think that is right at all. They should be there to help you make as healthy and effective transition as possible, but they shouldn't be there testing and prodding you at every turn. It's not their job to shape gender, and I think it's a gross overstep--anyways, I just feel like even that very radical feminist perspective has room to accept trans-people, and we'd all be better off for it. Which I think is why you see that as the minority, and the majority of feminists are very accepting of transpeople.
@genee
QuoteI think some feminists are trying to prove that they are women just like some men are trying to prove that they are men. If someone doesn't know that by now, I feel pity for them. To me it's wasted energy that can be better spent on the things that really oppress people.
Thats' a refreshing take on what drives some feminists. Certainly I've always though that some of the feminists had to be hurt people who feel inferior and will spend the rest of their life trying to prove they are as good as another person.
Hi Nero
I know this thread has not had any activity on it for the last 30 days. Well if you or anyone else comes back to check I just wanted to say what my experience with the mones were like for me. Now some here claim the hormones don't do to much in the sense of feeling feminine, and to tell the truth I would be stumped it trying to explain that.
These are the changes I have felt through the past 7 years on the hormones. My consciousness is much more keen then before, even my hearing and sensing things, my power of observation is much more sensitive then before, or is it that I had these sensitivities all along and just never noticed them before. But then I raised 11 children through the years which has also helped me develop intuition.
Emotions are also way more profound and even my orgasms are way more intense then before surgery. But then to say that I feel more like a woman, I would not know how to define this.
I am who I am, I am just me, I am a woman, would be my description of myself..
Cindy