Hi guys,
If there are any guys here who have legally changed their gender marker to male but are still considered "female" / or don't "pass" or look androgynous; do you or did you ever encounter any problems using the male bathroom when people (such as at a work place) think that you're female? I don't intend to "come out" to anyone ever so I was wondering if anybody here has any experiences?
I have not, but I do know people who have (or at least read about it). I used the men's room way before I was read as male (hate the word pass) consistently, or had male ID. I was VERY androgynous. I don't really think most men care or even look, tbh. No one gave me a side long glance. I live in NM and I think New Mexicans are particularly, "it's your business" folks.
--Jay
Thank you for the reply Jay. I would also like to think they don't mind but I can't control the anxiety that my body gives out unfortunately. If you don't mind me asking (everyone) do you use the urinals or the stalls?
Check out this thread: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,159539.0.html It's all about using the restroom and has been very helpful.
I plan to start using the men's room in public places but not at work. I'm out to a few people at work, but most people don't know and will expect me to use the women's room. So, that transition will come later.
Quote from: makipu on April 10, 2014, 02:12:27 PM
Thank you for the reply Jay. I would also like to think they don't mind but I can't control the anxiety that my body gives out unfortunately. If you don't mind me asking (everyone) do you use the urinals or the stalls?
No, not at all. I always use the stalls. Can't get an STP to work for me, and even if I did, I think I wouldn't like the anxiety of thinking somebody could walk in on me using an STP, even if they didn't notice anything.
I think some amt. of anxiety is normal. I think for awhile I could use it but couldn't really empty my bladder. But the more I found out nobody cared the easier it got.
--Jay
I always use the stalls, its awkward but I usually (loudly) pull a bunch of TP while I'm urinating, or put a big wad inside the bowl so my urine doesn't tinkle so much, and if anyone ever says anything my excuse would just be that I thought I had to #2 but turns out I didn't
But really, in regards to using a stall and someone noticing that you are peeing in a stall, well most guys would be way to freaked out that it would seem "gay" of them to be listening in to a guy peeing.
Elijah and Jay, I am with you both, I use a stall the men's all the time. I am not confident using a STP with my pants on. I think anxiety would to be big problem for me even if I was alone in the restroom at an urinal, I would be thinking what if someone would come in. At first peeing in a stall was difficult, wondering what might happen. Now I am over all that and go into a stall and pee wash my hands and leave. No one has ever looked at me wondering why I use a stall. Guys are in and out so fast with a minimum of talking.
I do pass most of the time (which in my head is more of a grade, "pass/no pass" than the real definition) and I do use an STP, but still go back and forth between the stall and the urinal depending on my mood and how busy the bathroom is. Guys really don't look at each other in the bathroom. If you're dressed like a guy might dress, with a feasible guy haircut, they won't think twice.
If people who know you ask you why, make light of it, I.e. "can you imagine women's reactions when I first walk in? Men's room is easier."
It's sick, but the biggest fear for guys is that someone would think they were gay. A lot of "etiquette" in the men's room is based on fear that someone will think they are gay, so that therefore making a comment re: someone's peeing would be considered gay and I can't imagine it. They don't talk to each other or look at each other as that's gay or might signal gay. For a little laugh sometime look up urinal etiquette on youtube, there are many youtube videos on this. This is why the rules might change in a gay bar. I have been to one once so I don't really know, I had no issues.
BTW, the biggest fear of women is being attacked, so that all the behavior is geared at makign women safe-- you talk to people to figure out their aim, you look at each other, and so forth. Obviously then if you are at all in between you are safer in the men's room (boy friends watch who goes in the women's room too). This makes it very hard for our "non-passing" sisters.
--Jay
It really depends on how comfortable you are. No one seems to notice anything when I use the stalls, but I've found a few tricks that help if you are nervous.
1) Try to pick a busy bathroom. It seems counter-intuitive, but there's so much going on in there you can just let the pee run freely (lol) and no one is likely to notice.
2) Given that I'm nervous, I would sit and wait for another guy to finish his business in the stall adjacent to me. I discovered that most men take a lot of time in the stalls, and sit on the toilet quietly without any sound for quite a while. So if I'm really afraid to go, I'll wait. Usually I'll let it out when someone flushes a toilet, runs some water, or turns on the dryer.
That's me being extra paranoid though. Chances are they may not even notice.
Quote from: birkin on April 11, 2014, 06:30:21 PM
So if I'm really afraid to go, I'll wait. Usually I'll let it out when someone flushes a toilet, runs some water, or turns on the dryer.
Same, though I've realized that a lot of men also happen to pee when they're trying to poop... So it's really not that big of a deal.
Just so you guys know, (coming from the opposite perspective of course,) I was exclusively using the stalls to pee in the men's room during the entire time during transition that I was still presenting as male publicly. And I was still doing it even beyond the point where I stopped passing as male consistently, and many people were gendering me female even when I was dressed in male clothes. And seriously, despite that, despite being gendered female by people, despite always using the stalls, and despite wearing panties that were probably clearly visible under the stall door where anyone could see them for crying out loud, nobody ever cared, and not a single person ever questioned me on it. That is how little guys care about each-others' bathroom habits.
So my advice is just to chillax and don't worry about it so much.
Quote from: Carrie Liz on April 11, 2014, 06:46:08 PM
Just so you guys know, (coming from the opposite perspective of course,) I was exclusively using the stalls to pee in the men's room during the entire time during transition that I was still presenting as male publicly. And I was still doing it even beyond the point where I stopped passing as male consistently, and many people were gendering me female even when I was dressed in male clothes. And seriously, despite that, despite being gendered female by people, despite always using the stalls, and despite wearing panties that were probably clearly visible under the stall door where anyone could see them for crying out loud, nobody ever cared, and not a single person ever questioned me on it. That is how little guys care about each-others' bathroom habits.
So my advice is just to chillax and don't worry about it so much.
A different perspective is often very helpful. Thanks for posting that.
Here's also a bit of different perspective. My (consistently read as female, so misgendering is not a factor here) mom has used men's bathrooms, both deliberately (fed up with the line for the women's toilets) and accidentally with no problem worse than some dudes looking really baffled when they see a woman coming out of the men's.
I'd also like to point out that, although it's not the 'norm,' a lot of guys use the stalls to pee. Because they're self-conscious, paranoid someone will look, generally shy, etc. If I was a cis guy, I'd probably never have used a urinal because I'd be far too uncomfortable peeing around people lol. No-one will really say anything about it because it happens; it won't be the first time they've seen a guy go into the stalls to pee, so they probably don't even notice it at that point.
Quote from: Jason C on April 12, 2014, 01:59:06 PM
I'd also like to point out that, although it's not the 'norm,' a lot of guys use the stalls to pee. Because they're self-conscious, paranoid someone will look, generally shy, etc. If I was a cis guy, I'd probably never have used a urinal because I'd be far too uncomfortable peeing around people lol. No-one will really say anything about it because it happens; it won't be the first time they've seen a guy go into the stalls to pee, so they probably don't even notice it at that point.
Yeap , Ive never used a urinal actually most of my male friends havent , its just not comfortable peeing next to a stranger...
Noone will notice or comment about it...
Thank you for all the replies everyone. I really appreciate you guys sharing your experiences. It definitely helps to hear from both perspectives. I guess using the stalls isn't so uncommon as I originally thought but is it ok to ... sit down and do my business? I have really no experience doing it the other way. I wish I was born with the correct genitals.
Since we are on the topic of restrooms, just WHY is it that women take their time chatting and all? Has it always been like this? I just never understood it and every time I went to their bathroom I felt uncomfortable.
Something else btw if you guys are interested to know...
for 19 years Im using the male restroom and I dont think anyone has spoken to me once...
so yeah you go in stalls or not , do your job and leave ,,,
simple :D
Quote from: makipu on April 12, 2014, 05:13:53 PM
Thank you for all the replies everyone. I really appreciate you guys sharing your experiences. It definitely helps to hear from both perspectives. I guess using the stalls isn't so uncommon as I originally thought but is it ok to ... sit down and do my business? I have really no experience doing it the other way. I wish I was born with the correct genitals.
Since we are on the topic of restrooms, just WHY is it that women take their time chatting and all? Has it always been like this? I just never understood it and every time I went to their bathroom I felt uncomfortable.
Most, if not all(?), guys will stand up to pee, but it doesn't matter, because no-one's going to look to see if you're standing up or not. And, even if I did notice, they wouldn't say anything. Women take their time chatting, men get in, do their thing, and leave. So try not to worry, the main thing is to feel confident, do what needs to be done, and then leave. No-one will say a word.
I squat/hover over the toilet bowl when in public restrooms (no offense but I am grossed out at the idea of sitting where other naked butts have been).
No guy would squat if they had a penis attached. They would stand in front of the bowl if they didn't want to sit.
I have wondered if people can tell I am squating rather than sitting due to calf/foot angle. If a person can tell, they would know I am female bodied.
What do you guys think?
Or maybe you can't tell unless you are sitting on the toilet next to me?
Don't worry. If you keep to yourself, don't try to start a conversation and don't loiter you'll fit right in. Men like to pretend they're all alone when they use the bathroom. Much harder going the other direction, I imagine. Haven't had the opportunity to try yet.
Dee
Quote from: Elijah on April 10, 2014, 11:38:45 PM
I always use the stalls, its awkward but I usually (loudly) pull a bunch of TP while I'm urinating, or put a big wad inside the bowl so my urine doesn't tinkle so much, and if anyone ever says anything my excuse would just be that I thought I had to #2 but turns out I didn't
But really, in regards to using a stall and someone noticing that you are peeing in a stall, well most guys would be way to freaked out that it would seem "gay" of them to be listening in to a guy peeing.
I have male parts and currently present as a male. I have used the stall and have sat to pee for over 16 years now. I was concerned about what others might say in the beginning but nobody really noticed. Now it is the natural thing for me to find a stall and sit.
Quote from: aleon515 on April 10, 2014, 10:51:04 PM
No, not at all. I always use the stalls. Can't get an STP to work for me, and even if I did, I think I wouldn't like the anxiety of thinking somebody could walk in on me using an STP, even if they didn't notice anything.
I think some amt. of anxiety is normal. I think for awhile I could use it but couldn't really empty my bladder. But the more I found out nobody cared the easier it got.
--Jay
You are correct, nobody really pays attention. When I used to use the urinal I was paranoid of standing next to another guy :embarrassed:. I frequently splashed on my trousers, sometimes got the last spurt in my trousers, and occasionally had difficulty completely emptying my bladder. I have the real thing but find it much more pleasant to sit or squat :) .
Quote from: aleon515 on April 11, 2014, 11:54:21 AM
.........................................
BTW, the biggest fear of women is being attacked, so that all the behavior is geared at makign women safe-- you talk to people to figure out their aim, you look at each other, and so forth. Obviously then if you are at all in between you are safer in the men's room (boy friends watch who goes in the women's room too). This makes it very hard for our "non-passing" sisters.
--Jay
That is why I think all public restrooms should be multi-user unisex with private stalls for everybody. There would be more people (both women and men) in the restroom and it would be less likely that anybody would be alone with a pervert. Women could have their husbands or boy friends in the room and a parent could be in there with an opposite sexed child; providing more comfort and protection for everybody.
Currently women can freely use the men's restroom without any problem so why not make everything equal?
I agree with the idea of multi-stall unisex. I think there are some areas where there are more of them and it would decrease violence against women (including trans women), imo. I know they are the norm in some countries and starting to show up in a few states.
--Jay
Quote from: Brett on April 13, 2014, 08:47:26 AM
I squat/hover over the toilet bowl when in public restrooms (no offense but I am grossed out at the idea of sitting where other naked butts have been).
No guy would squat if they had a penis attached. They would stand in front of the bowl if they didn't want to sit.
I have wondered if people can tell I am squating rather than sitting due to calf/foot angle. If a person can tell, they would know I am female bodied.
What do you guys think?
Or maybe you can't tell unless you are sitting on the toilet next to me?
I doubt anyone would notice. Sometimes I'm not sure if there's someone in the stall or not if the door is closed, so I quickly peek under for shoes - but I'm pretty freaked out when I do that, because I don't want someone thinking I'm going to watch them take a dump. :P I've found it's rather hard to see if shoes are by the toilet or not, cause you'd have to bend down pretty far. If someone looked closely, I could see that looking unusual, for sure, but they'd have to make an effort to look under the stall door in the first place.
Quote from: birkin on April 13, 2014, 08:37:50 PM
I doubt anyone would notice. Sometimes I'm not sure if there's someone in the stall or not if the door is closed, so I quickly peek under for shoes - but I'm pretty freaked out when I do that, because I don't want someone thinking I'm going to watch them take a dump. :P I've found it's rather hard to see if shoes are by the toilet or not, cause you'd have to bend down pretty far. If someone looked closely, I could see that looking unusual, for sure, but they'd have to make an effort to look under the stall door in the first place.
This is a good point(s). It would be weird if someone outside the stall looked long enough to see the angle of my legs. I suppose it would only happen if someone is in the stall next to me. When I have used the women's room, as I am peeing, I will sometimes look at the people in the stall next to me to guess whether they are sitting or squating (just cause I have nothing else to do while I am peeing). But, I am probably the only person who would have an interest in such an inane thing, so it is probably isn't something I need to worry about. I am just being a freak.
It has been 20 years of dealing with women's rooms (and the ->-bleeped-<- that comes with them). Most of the time I try to find other places to go to the bathroom or don't have anything to drink, or... But, I am so tired of dealing with all of that, I think I will just start using the men's room on a regular basis. I am typically read as male. I pass unless you hear my voice (I am not on T). Even then, I can still sometimes pass. I need to just move through any anxiety I may have about it, and start using the men's room, regularly.
Thanks for replying.
The way I started out was I used single stall that were labeled male (why do they do that? Though it did help me), then I started using places which had a "liberal" reputation, like Starbucks and Whole Foods. I went on to quieter places, though about the first busy place was an airport. It made me nervous but actually I think people were paying even less attention, if that's possible. I think Starbucks and so on, made me feel more confident. For awhile I was kind of nervous and had to get up my courage, but each time it built up my confidence a little bit. I am kind of a "who cares what people think" type person anyway, so I think this works to my advantage. But I was a little "pee shy" for awhile. It seemed like I didn't ever quite empty my bladder.
--Jay
Quote from: aleon515 on April 13, 2014, 11:16:39 PM
The way I started out was I used single stall that were labeled male (why do they do that? ....
--Jay
My theory is that it's intended to give guys a chance to actually use the bathroom. I often see women waiting for the ladies, even when the mens is not in use. Most women are too embarrassed to use it. I often, in that situation, will check and offer it, but rarely get taken up on it.
Dee
Waiting for what goes 'round to come 'round.
Polo, what style STP do you have that works so well for you using an urinal? I am trying to find one that will work for me with my jeans on.
Quote from: mm on April 14, 2014, 09:03:19 AM
Polo, what style STP do you have that works so well for you using an urinal? I am trying to find one that will work for me with my jeans on.
mm, I know you didn't ask me but XD I use a Peecock and it actually works pretty good once I got the hang of it. I should be able to use the urinals with no issues now, as long as the zipper goes down far enough. It's quite a bit of money, though...
thanks, Evan of Spades, I will pm you.