I'm having top surgery in 3 weeks which I am very happy about. Thing is all his recent reviews from guys keeps getting worst and worst. His bedside manner sucks and he is rude. I'm thinking about canceling and going with somebody else. I don't wanna be out of money if I cancel. I'm a little nervous but I wouldn't consider it cold feet because I can't wait to have surgery. Idk what to do at this point.
Quote from: Ethedon on April 10, 2014, 04:29:07 PM
I'm having top surgery in 3 weeks which I am very happy about. Thing is all his recent reviews from guys keeps getting worst and worst. His bedside manner sucks and he is rude. I'm thinking about canceling and going with somebody else. I don't wanna be out of money if I cancel. I'm a little nervous but I wouldn't consider it cold feet because I can't wait to have surgery. Idk what to do at this point.
From someone who has had experiences with bad doctors, if I smell a bad one now, I quickly run for the exit. This is your chest, and you have to live with the results, good or bad. Bad reviews and being a d^ck on top of it are two red flags right there.
Best of luck, whatever you decide.
I actually know someone from high school who got bad top surgery. He has a scar that looks pretty bad. I say if you see a bad review and they only get worse, then it's time to high tail it from that doc. Find a better one with better bedside manner.
Thing is he does AWESOME work that's why I chose him. I knew about his bedside manner before hand. But guys are also saying he is RUDE. I know a lot of doctors tend to rush through things. But I'd actually say something to a Dr if he became rude to me. Idc what your credentials are you will show me respect as you would expect from me.
He seemed polite during the consult and so was his office staff. But that was just over the phone.
Exactly how many recent reviews did you see that were getting worse and worse?
It's your choice really - but I think that it's hard to judge from what others are saying when that's not been your experience.
I was scared away from a doctor here where I live because every guy I met kept telling me how horrible he was, how he'd insult me and basically sabotage me if I tried to go elsewhere. But then, after I went with another doctor, I had more people tell me that wasn't the case and he was a nice guy. So it depends on how much weight you give to other people's experiences.
Quote from: Malachite on April 10, 2014, 05:59:01 PM
Exactly how many recent reviews did you see that were getting worse and worse?
More than enough from forums, youtube, and just talking to people that actually seen him.
The main thing is I really would like to retain as much sensation in my nipples as possible and I don't think he will be willing to take the necessary steps to do this because of his bedside manner. He's the type that does what he does and thats it. Like snip snip you're done. NEXT!
Quote from: Ethedon on April 10, 2014, 09:39:49 PM
The main thing is I really would like to retain as much sensation in my nipples as possible and I don't think he will be willing to take the necessary steps to do this because of his bedside manner. He's the type that does what he does and thats it. Like snip snip you're done. NEXT!
If you are getting free grafts (DI), then you are not going to have sensation, period.
When it comes to DI, yes, Garramone is snip snip, next.
If you are talking keyhole/peri, that is something different.
What are you getting done?
I agree with Brett here. If you have DI with nipple grafts you will not have anything but touch sensation (if you are lucky), and you won't get erotic sensation. Anyone who claims otherwise is imagining (and I don't mean this in a bad way), what happens I think is that they pair what their brain thinks about what is beign touched (the brain is the biggest sex organ anyway). Peri/keyhole might take a LONG time and may be impaired.
I don't know who this is, but keep in mind the loudest youtube voices aren't always the most articulate.
But anyway, I know I've heard that people consider Dr Garramone brusk. I think he is not really very sociable but professional, but he is an excellent surgeon .To me, it was more important to have someone who had done a real many surgeries and was as excellent as he is. But he has a surgeon's brain or whatever. Most of hte time I spent with him was under anyway. :) But if that kind of thing is really important, I'd chose someone else.
--Jay
Without me saying his name you knew exactly who I was referring to and I don't think that's a good thing. I'm getting double incision. But I was hoping he could apply the pedical technique. But he probably won't.
Well, I was pretty sure I knew who you meant as well without you even saying his name. One thing I've noticed is that his chests pretty much look EXACTLY the same lol. Like if you've seen one, you've seen them all (that's the biggest reason I did NOT go with him, tbh). So if you like how they look, like if his work is ideal for you - I say go for it. And if you can't get your money back...holy crap that's a lot of money to lose.
But all that said, I completely understand about the whole bedside manner thing. I wouldn't take kindly to being treated rudely either, especially when I've saved so much cash and hope for this surgery. I think this is one of those situations where you need to really weigh it out. If you're pretty sure you're going to be satisfied, and the possibility of a bad bedside manner is the only thing holding you back...is that really worth it? Which will affect you most long-term - someone coming off as a bit of an ass to you, or losing some money? Your new chest will be with you forever. You might be PO'd at a bad bedside manner for a couple weeks. But if it's something you think would really be a huge problem then you gotta go with your gut.
Quote from: aleon515 on April 10, 2014, 11:17:55 PM
I agree with Brett here. If you have DI with nipple grafts you will not have anything but touch sensation (if you are lucky), and you won't get erotic sensation. Anyone who claims otherwise is imagining (and I don't mean this in a bad way), what happens I think is that they pair what their brain thinks about what is beign touched (the brain is the biggest sex organ anyway). Peri/keyhole might take a LONG time and may be impaired.
I don't know who this is, but keep in mind the loudest youtube voices aren't always the most articulate.
But anyway, I know I've heard that people consider Dr Garramone brusk. I think he is not really very sociable but professional, but he is an excellent surgeon .To me, it was more important to have someone who had done a real many surgeries and was as excellent as he is. But he has a surgeon's brain or whatever. Most of hte time I spent with him was under anyway. :) But if that kind of thing is really important, I'd chose someone else.
--Jay
He doesn't have to be social really. I knew this when I chose him. But I still wish he would even consider it. Did you go to him?
Quote from: birkin on April 10, 2014, 11:50:28 PM
Well, I was pretty sure I knew who you meant as well without you even saying his name. One thing I've noticed is that his chests pretty much look EXACTLY the same lol. Like if you've seen one, you've seen them all (that's the biggest reason I did NOT go with him, tbh). So if you like how they look, like if his work is ideal for you - I say go for it. And if you can't get your money back...holy crap that's a lot of money to lose.
But all that said, I completely understand about the whole bedside manner thing. I wouldn't take kindly to being treated rudely either, especially when I've saved so much cash and hope for this surgery. I think this is one of those situations where you need to really weigh it out. If you're pretty sure you're going to be satisfied, and the possibility of a bad bedside manner is the only thing holding you back...is that really worth it? Which will affect you most long-term - someone coming off as a bit of an ass to you, or losing some money? Your new chest will be with you forever. You might be PO'd at a bad bedside manner for a couple weeks. But if it's something you think would really be a huge problem then you gotta go with your gut.
I agree with you. I would rather have good results. I like his work. I'm going to call and ask tomorrow. If I didn't care about my nipple sensation I wouldn't even consider canceling.
Perhaps you should make a list of the pros and cons of having surgery with this surgeon. Remember in the end it is -you- who will be living with your chest and not these other reviewers. Another thing to remember is that dysphoria often can really mess with how people see their own body...and surgery doesn't always help. The surgeon I chose to go with has also been bad mouthed and given poor reviews online and one in person, but I felt that he could do what I wanted so I went with him and you know what. I love the work he did.
Now on to the personality of a surgeon... I've spoken to and been treated by four (five if you count the one I wouldn't let operate on me even if it killed me...horrid man should lose his license IMO) in the last 11 months and of those four only one had a half way decent bedside manner. The others have been professional and brisk, but listened and answered my questions. They come off as know it alls and have the I know best attitude down pat, but I think it has to do with the profession. My top surgeon had the same style of bedside manner and when I jokingly mentioned the trend he laughed and said that it was common and surgeons don't have enough time to double as therapists. We both shared a laugh over it because looking at it from a surgeon's point of view it's true. He told me he spent most of his time yelling at people for doing things too soon after surgery and messing up his work.
And don't forget you add in the art of plastic surgery to the surgeon and it's no wonder some of them seem to lack a bedside manner. Plastic surgery is art more or less and I'm sure we all know how artists can be at times.
To me the only con is the fact I know he won't consider the procedure. I'm fine with everything else.
If you're set on a certain procedure have you looked at other surgeons that will do it? It's a lot of money to spend on surgery if it's not exactly what you want.
I haven't yet. I just started considering it today. I can only ask and see and then move from there.
Quote from: Ethedon on April 10, 2014, 11:40:54 PM
Without me saying his name you knew exactly who I was referring to and I don't think that's a good thing. I'm getting double incision. But I was hoping he could apply the pedical technique. But he probably won't.
Yes I'm a Dr Garramone patient. I'm very happy with my decision, and I think he did a really nice job. The office staff treated me very well and he was polite and efficient. He is VERY focused which is a good trait in a surgeon. I have had lots of guys here who really admire what an awesome job he did. I had very little trauma (pain and so on) and healed really well which is partly his skill as a surgeon (and also my general good health). I also found him very calming in situations where you might think you'd have a lot of dysphoria (the times I had to show my chest) and he was calming in that I was afraid of surgery.
I would say you gave some tips as to who it was (awesome results, nice staff, polite, etc). It's easy to guess actually. I can see why people would think of Dr G as rude. I do NOT consider him rude at all, but he is very business like and can snap from joking and social to business like in a half second. I just consider that this is who he is. But I was never treated in anything but a professional way. He answered all my questions and when I asked him something he wasn't familiar with he answered in a really interesting way. I just think he is not a particularly social kind of guy. He doesn't really like that aspect of being a surgeon. But if you aren't comfortable with that, well there are many other surgeons.
He won't do the pedicle technique because he *doesn't* do it, it wouldn't be anything personal. He doesn't know how to do it, and choses not to learn it. If you want the pedicle technique you need to find someone who specializes in that technique. Surgery techniques aren't something that you can sort of discuss with a doctor and get them to do, it's not a thing like that. He also is kind of old-school, drains and so on. I think if it works, he isn't fixing it. I don't consider it a personal decision. It wouldn't have anything to do with being "more trouble". That's kind of irrelevant. If you don't know how to, say, cast a fly, it's not "more trouble" to do it, it's "you aren't able to do it".
There are very good surgeons who do the pedicle technique because they want to do it.
If you *really* want the pedicle technique, it might be worth losing your $500. But if you are just worried that he might be rude to you, then I think it's kind of a lot of money to lose for something that it isn't what everybody experiences anyway. But that would just be my opinion on it.
This link has surgeons who perform this technique (not too many actually), not sure how old this link is: http://www.topsurgery.net/procedures/inverted-t-anchor-top-surgery.htm
--Jay
Quote from: Ethedon on April 10, 2014, 09:35:46 PM
More than enough from forums, youtube, and just talking to people that actually seen him.
I asked as I knew of the surgeon you were talking about, but I've only heard one bad review about him and that was on Youtube. The way I see it is there's probably two sides to the story that we don't know about. As for the bedside manner, if there is someone going with you, then maybe you could count on them to go the extra mile to help you feel comfortable?
If sensation is something that is very important to you, then maybe it is best to lose the extra money to go to someone that could fulfill that wish, but I will say that sensitivity varies with the patient. I have heard of some guys with the DI retain sensitivity (though it does seem more rare) and guys with other procedures lose their nipple sensation so I say it just depends on your body.
Best of luck in whatever you decide!
I think you should of asked if he did peri before you gave him money.
Ethedon, I knew it was Garramone because you said his name in another thread.
Birkin, indeed we all look the same, that is why Jay and I tease about being clones!
The reason I chose Garramone is he hits it spot on every time. Consistent results, which made me feel confident. Consistent results with the chest look I like better than any other. A win-win!
I never found him rude. I have never understood people viewing him this way. He is not jolly, but he is if you joke with him. I had no issue with him at all, and like Jay said, he actually made me feel very comfortable and confident about what I was doing. I never felt rushed. I wasn't rushed on the phone consult, I wasn't rushed at pre op, and I didn't feel rushed at post op. How is it are people saying he is rude? In what way? Does he not answer their questions, make them feel rushed, or...?
I can't help but wonder if the people that saw him as rude are the type of people who want extra attention and expect more than one should expect from ANY surgeon.
Anyway, everyone on this thread gave you great thoughts/information. Don't assume since some people find him rude that you will too. Good luck on your decision.
Quote from: aleon515 on April 11, 2014, 02:21:08 AM
Yes I'm a Dr Garramone patient. I'm very happy with my decision, and I think he did a really nice job. The office staff treated me very well and he was polite and efficient. He is VERY focused which is a good trait in a surgeon. I have had lots of guys here who really admire what an awesome job he did. I had very little trauma (pain and so on) and healed really well which is partly his skill as a surgeon (and also my general good health). I also found him very calming in situations where you might think you'd have a lot of dysphoria (the times I had to show my chest) and he was calming in that I was afraid of surgery.
I would say you gave some tips as to who it was (awesome results, nice staff, polite, etc). It's easy to guess actually. I can see why people would think of Dr G as rude. I do NOT consider him rude at all, but he is very business like and can snap from joking and social to business like in a half second. I just consider that this is who he is. But I was never treated in anything but a professional way. He answered all my questions and when I asked him something he wasn't familiar with he answered in a really interesting way. I just think he is not a particularly social kind of guy. He doesn't really like that aspect of being a surgeon. But if you aren't comfortable with that, well there are many other surgeons.
He won't do the pedicle technique because he *doesn't* do it, it wouldn't be anything personal. He doesn't know how to do it, and choses not to learn it. If you want the pedicle technique you need to find someone who specializes in that technique. Surgery techniques aren't something that you can sort of discuss with a doctor and get them to do, it's not a thing like that. He also is kind of old-school, drains and so on. I think if it works, he isn't fixing it. I don't consider it a personal decision. It wouldn't have anything to do with being "more trouble". That's kind of irrelevant. If you don't know how to, say, cast a fly, it's not "more trouble" to do it, it's "you aren't able to do it".
There are very good surgeons who do the pedicle technique because they want to do it.
If you *really* want the pedicle technique, it might be worth losing your $500. But if you are just worried that he might be rude to you, then I think it's kind of a lot of money to lose for something that it isn't what everybody experiences anyway. But that would just be my opinion on it.
This link has surgeons who perform this technique (not too many actually), not sure how old this link is: http://www.topsurgery.net/procedures/inverted-t-anchor-top-surgery.htm
--Jay
Thanks Jay. You've given me a better understanding of his bedside manner. And if him being straight forward is peoples idea of him being rude I don't agree with them. This is fine with me. And thank you for the link it is very helpful. I'm going to think it over this weekend and then make my decision. It's my chest and $500 isn't so bad if I'm able to get what I want.
I think you may be right about some individuals needing more attention. Some people maybe more afraid and have more anxiety about surgery than others. I was thinking the same thing. I was telling another guy, that he doesn't have to be my best friend. As long as he gives me what I want and is professional & passionate about his work. I chose him because like you said he is very consistent. I can spot his work a mile away. Plus he's only 3hrs from me. This is something I'm going to really think about over the weekend. Thanks for the advice.
Most people who had DI w/grafts say that they have limited sensation, and the surgeons would also mention that sensation loss could happen.
But from my personal experience, I regained most of the erotic sensation gradually post-op, and my nipples will become "erected" when aroused.
I had surgery with Dr G and I actually thought his bedside manner was pretty good, also felt as though I could have a joke with him and he put my mind at rest considering it was my first ever operation. Cannot fault the job he did too, best decision of my life. But I guess others have had different experiences
I also liked consistent results. I sort of am like "who cares if all Dr G chests look alike" if I look good like that. :)
I'm proud to be part of the vast clone army. LOL!
I know some people like their hand held more than others. I am not particularly needy in that way. I do have a pretty good friend who did a phone consult with Dr G and was turned off by him as it wasn't personal enough. (He didn't think he was rude.) He goes thru what I think is a checklist or something. He asks if you have any questions, and he will answer them, but I think this person felt he needed more of a personal touch or something. I feel like he's a surgeon. He would not make a good PHP, but he did make me feel comfortable and calm and that's really all I need. He doesn't allow you to video pre-ops but youtube videos of post-ops are pretty telling about how he actually is without making interpretations. He says the same things when he can. He did joke a little bit, and I found him likable.
IMO, the big deal is the whether you want the pedicle. However, I think you should be realistic about how much sensation you'll keep. My understanding is that even after peri/keyhole not everyone maintains 100% sensation and it might take over a year to get back. Also if you have a very large chest or very large areolas and nipples it is less appropriate. It's more for medium chest, they can downsize the areolas and nipples to an extent, but less so than in free nipple grafts.
I think that this doctor in Chicago, Dr Steinwald gets some nice results. I have no idea how nice he is, but there seem to be videos on youtube.
--Jay
Quote from: SX0877 on April 11, 2014, 10:14:51 AM
Most people who had DI w/grafts say that they have limited sensation, and the surgeons would also mention that sensation loss could happen.
But from my personal experience, I regained most of the erotic sensation gradually post-op, and my nipples will become "erected" when aroused.
Really?!? So there is some hope.
I don't think that erotic sensation is to be expected. The nerves aren't lined up like that. OTOH, I the brain is a sex organ, and what the brain thinks. Well lots of things are possible like that. I'm not at ALL saying this is in SX's imagination, btw.
--Jay
Quote from: aleon515 on April 11, 2014, 02:52:51 PM
I don't think that erotic sensation is to be expected. The nerves aren't lined up like that. OTOH, I the brain is a sex organ, and what the brain thinks. Well lots of things are possible like that. I'm not at ALL saying this is in SX's imagination, btw.
--Jay
Yea this is why I'm not sure if I want to cancel or not. I mean what are the odds of retaining sensation with the pedicle method VS regular D.I. If anyone can answer this it would help me make my decision. And I do believe a lot of things are possible with the brain.
I realized this morning I might have inadvertently come off as a huge d-bag when I said the chests all look the same, and I wanted to apologize if it offended anyone. I think for a lot of people that's actually a huge plus, if they like his work and like the idea of knowing pretty well how it's going to turn out. And it definitely shows that he has found a technique he likes and he knows it well enough to replicate it every time.
Quote from: Ethedon on April 11, 2014, 03:10:09 PM
Yea this is why I'm not sure if I want to cancel or not. I mean what are the odds of retaining sensation with the pedicle method VS regular D.I. If anyone can answer this it would help me make my decision. And I do believe a lot of things are possible with the brain.
What Jay posted is the Inverted T/T anchor (I did not know that this was also referred to as pedicle?). Pedicle is the one where the incision is across the areola a la Megan Hassall work (see Kreuzfidel's chest). I don't know anyone who does this in the U.S., but I'm sure there is someone.
But anyway, if sensation is that important to you, and you don't mind that extra scar from the bottom of the pec up to the areola, then maybe you really should strongly consider the T-acnchor.
The owner of the Neutrois Nonsense blog got the T-Anchor http://neutrois.me/2012/02/14/top-surgery-analyzing-results/
They (I don't know the pronoun they use), are also here under the name Neutrois. I bet they would be happy to talk with you.
Quote from: birkin on April 11, 2014, 04:06:46 PM
I realized this morning I might have inadvertently come off as a huge d-bag when I said the chests all look the same, and I wanted to apologize if it offended anyone. I think for a lot of people that's actually a huge plus, if they like his work and like the idea of knowing pretty well how it's going to turn out. And it definitely shows that he has found a technique he likes and he knows it well enough to replicate it every time.
Yeah, really, my chest looks WAY better than Jay's! Kidding.
It's cool birkin. I admit it kind of hit me in the gut a wee bit, but it really is true. There are times that it bothers me that there are a bunch of other guys out there with the same chest as me. Other times, like when I mess around with Jay, it makes me smile, as it gives me a sense of inclusiveness.
I had my surgery done with Garramone prior to coming to this board, and I hadn't been a part of any other trans* websites/blogs/social sites, so I wasn't even aware that he was as popular as he was. I made my decision based on transbucket pictures. I saw a handful of youtube videos, too, but it really only was a couple.
However, I don't think knowing the large amount of clones out there would have deterred me, however. I love the "Superman chest" that Garramone gives.
Yeah, his chest definitely has a lot of positives, and I never meant it as a bad thing at all. He does a really good job on resizing and placing the nipples and makes the chest very flat. Plus, if you got shots of a bunch of cis guys chests, you wouldn't be able to know who was who, you know what I mean? lol. I'm just extra sensitive about the issue because I'm surrounded by a lot of pomo feminists and rad fem lesbians. If I lived somewhere else, I probably wouldn't hesitate to go with Dr G because his results are great.
Quote from: Brett on April 11, 2014, 04:18:32 PM
What Jay posted is the Inverted T/T anchor (I did not know that this was also referred to as pedicle?). Pedicle is the one where the incision is across the areola a la Megan Hassall work (see Kreuzfidel's chest). I don't know anyone who does this in the U.S., but I'm sure there is someone.
But anyway, if sensation is that important to you, and you don't mind that extra scar from the bottom of the pec up to the areola, then maybe you really should strongly consider the T-acnchor.
The owner of the Neutrois Nonsense blog got the T-Anchor http://neutrois.me/2012/02/14/top-surgery-analyzing-results/
They (I don't know the pronoun they use), are also here under the name Neutrois. I bet they would be happy to talk with you.
Thanks for the link. That's another thing I must consider is the extra scarring. Just thinking about it now there are more pros than cons if I continue with D.I And cons being more scarring with pedicle and it's not guaranteed I will gain that sensation back. I definitely don't want extra scarring. So which is more important to me? Extra scarring with the POSSIBILITY of sensation or minimum scarring with a possibility of sensation.. I'm thinking guys I really am.
Although Dr G uses the same technique with D.I IMO I still don't think any two guys are Exactly the same. As well as a cis guys chest. They may look the same but they all aren't. IMO I think just being consistent in any business sells. That's what sold me.
While I thought Garramone comes off as incredibly fake and pretentious (as well as having very recognizable reults which is really only a problem if you're stealth), a lot of people start to think someone is rude just because they heard it from someone else and now need to have that same opinion. If he's the best choice for you cost wise/travel wise/results wise go to him and get it over with. It's not like you have to keep in contact once your operation is over.
Oh, just to throw it out there: I had double incision with nipple grafts and I have more sensation than ever before. I've mentioned it on a different thread but I'm 5 months post op and that area is still insanely sensitive.
Quote from: timbuck2 on April 11, 2014, 05:36:09 PM
While I thought Garramone comes off as incredibly fake and pretentious (as well as having very recognizable reults which is really only a problem if you're stealth), a lot of people start to think someone is rude just because they heard it from someone else and now need to have that same opinion. If he's the best choice for you cost wise/travel wise/results wise go to him and get it over with. It's not like you have to keep in contact once your operation is over.
Oh, just to throw it out there: I had double incision with nipple grafts and I have more sensation than ever before. I've mentioned it on a different thread but I'm 5 months post op and that area is still insanely sensitive.
Why would it be a problem if you're stealth just curious..
Quote from: Brett on April 11, 2014, 04:18:32 PM
What Jay posted is the Inverted T/T anchor (I did not know that this was also referred to as pedicle?). Pedicle is the one where the incision is across the areola a la Megan Hassall work (see Kreuzfidel's chest). I don't know anyone who does this in the U.S., but I'm sure there is someone.
But anyway, if sensation is that important to you, and you don't mind that extra scar from the bottom of the pec up to the areola, then maybe you really should strongly consider the T-acnchor.
The owner of the Neutrois Nonsense blog got the T-Anchor http://neutrois.me/2012/02/14/top-surgery-analyzing-results/
They (I don't know the pronoun they use), are also here under the name Neutrois. I bet they would be happy to talk with you.
@Birkin, I didn't really take offense, I think it's kind of true. It's not that he can treat you the same, because obviously to get the same result he has to use much different approaches. But he is kind of snip, snip, next and so on. I think it's kind of funny actually.
@timbuck-- I didn't see him as fake, but I think he is VERY very sure of himself, I don't know that always comes across so well. it's a surgeon trait, imo.
I was thinking the t-anchor and pedicle are one in the same. I don't knwo what they call across the chest. I think there is really the one doctor in Australia doing that, and I don't know of anyone else. But I might be totally off on this. They may be more similar than is apparent, the surgeon is obviously retaining the nipple, so it is around which is either up and around the nipple or down and around, either way you'd have to do some kind of t type cut, it seems to me anyway. Not sure if this is clear.
The extra scar(s) would decrease in time, but I can still see Micah's (neutrosis me). The result is natural though. I think he went to Steinwald btw. I agree that they would be willing to talk to you. I know them, and really nice open person. You could comment and pose a question on their website, and they are likely to answer. The only thing is that they are asexual, but there are other reasons they chose that technique.
Anyway, if sensation is important it's something to check out. But you must be medium size and have small-med. nipples and areolas. They are less able to resize in this procedure for obvious reasons. They can go back later, but that's a revision.
--Jay
Quote from: Ethedon on April 11, 2014, 05:48:14 PM
Why would it be a problem if you're stealth just curious..
Just because the results are pretty widely available. I know people who became familiar with FTMs looking on the internet, and so now they know what the scars look like and can identify it as a "breast removal" surgery. Particularly Garramone's since he's the most popular. As someone who wants to put my past behind me, I'm extra concerned about someone seeing my scars and assuming they are "FTM" scars. But I am someone who has zero interest in being out - for a person who is OK with it, or doesn't care what others think, it's not a problem.
That being said, to assume that someone's scars are from a FTM top surgery is incredibly presumptuous on the parts of the people who make those assumptions. A man could be cis and have bad gynecomastia, or a surgery with similar scarring. I'm not excusing anyone who thinks they can go around and "spot the trans person" because I highly doubt they're always right.
Quote from: Ethedon on April 11, 2014, 05:48:14 PM
Why would it be a problem if you're stealth just curious..
^^What Birkin said. Anyone familiar with FTM top surgery would be more likely to notice Garramone's style of incisions. I had someone very rudely come up to me in a hotel pool and say "Hey, so are you transitioning? I only ask because I saw the scars." in front of a few of my friends who have no idea I'm transgender. I just looked at him really confused and said "I had a double lung
transplant, not a transition haha." and the dude seemed really embarassed that he asked but it was still an awkward situation where my heart started racing.
It's a crappy situation but because of incidents like this it would pose a problem to a stealth guy.
Just to clarify, pedicle is not equivalent to anchor. I had a pedicle surgery, but I didn't have anchor.
Since the areola and nipple remain attached to the nerve stalk, I would imagine that loss of erotic sensation happens only if something goes catastrophically wrong.
Quote from: timbuck2 on April 11, 2014, 10:08:13 PM
^^What Birkin said. Anyone familiar with FTM top surgery would be more likely to notice Garramone's style of incisions. I had someone very rudely come up to me in a hotel pool and say "Hey, so are you transitioning? I only ask because I saw the scars." in front of a few of my friends who have no idea I'm transgender. I just looked at him really confused and said "I had a double lung transplant, not a transition haha." and the dude seemed really embarassed that he asked but it was still an awkward situation where my heart started racing.
It's a crappy situation but because of incidents like this it would pose a problem to a stealth guy.
Oh boy, I don't agree (I mean that Dr. G's surgery is uniquely apparent to cis people)!
I don't really know why Dr G's incisions would be more of an issue than other DI top surgeries. They are all more or less similar. I think that since most of us have looked at a lot of surgeries we see Dr G's as the similar ones. But really all DI surgeries have semi-curved or actually curved or swooped shaped scars on or near or somewhat near the pec line. If you had had surgery with Medelie or Johnson or Crane or Brownstein (back when) or whoever that's not going to be all that different. They all look a little similar, imo.
The other thing is that I don't think that cis guys are looking on youtube for Dr G's (or other surgeons results). If they know something is ftm top surgery it is because of something else (perhaps seeing some movie or something).
I'm quite sure you had this experience Timbuck, but I can't imagine it would have been any different with another surgeon. The only way it would have been different is if you had had peri/keyhole.
Ok for fun, I LOVE this one. Take a look around 3:30 or so:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OpmjY0XgA8
--Jay
Wow I didnt think people were gaining knowledge of FTM's surgeries. I would like to remain stealth to the public. I have to agree with Jay. I dont think Dr G's "D.I incisions" stand out more than other surgeons do as far as being able to tell they are FTM related. I do however believe since he is very popular people are becoming aware of FTM surgeries. Not because of his incisions. If someone asks about my incisions I can simply tell them yes I had gynecomastia. Or can make up some weird off the wall story or just simple say I'd rather not talk about it.
Granted, there was an anime convention going on in the hotel I was staying at and people in that community are a little more apt to know what transgender even is. I'm not saying it's going to happen to everyone but it happened to me and as someone who is extremely stealth it's a potentially terrible situation.
I'd also like to note that my surgery was done by Crane, not Garramone. I just do see a difference with the latters incision technique--a lot of his results look exactly the same, not that that's a bad thing but I think you guys get the point I'm trying to make.
I notice Dr. Garramone's chests because the scars are thin, nipples are placed perfectly and the whole job just looks so neat and clean :)
Quote from: Ethedon on April 11, 2014, 11:57:24 PM
Wow I didnt think people were gaining knowledge of FTM's surgeries. I would like to remain stealth to the public. I have to agree with Jay. I dont think Dr G's "D.I incisions" stand out more than other surgeons do as far as being able to tell they are FTM related. I do however believe since he is very popular people are becoming aware of FTM surgeries. Not because of his incisions. If someone asks about my incisions I can simply tell them yes I had gynecomastia. Or can make up some weird off the wall story or just simple say I'd rather not talk about it.
I think gynecomastia is logical, as the surgeries, well that's where they get the idea from. I don't think most people are getting this knowledge but some people do. I would guess that they would tend to be more enlightened anyway. I do Trans 101s and we don't show our scars or anything, so it's not something you'd usually get that way either.
I definitely think that surgeons have their own techniques that are sometimes recognizable, but I would NOT think one is more recognizable than others. (i.e that anybody would know that Dr G's scars are from top surgery and that some other doctors's weren't). That requires what we trans guys do. I don't think cis guys go around and look at hundreds of top surgery results. Why would they do this? They don't need to.
I'm out as trans. But I don't actually advertise to someone who doesn't know me. So if someone ever asked I'd probably say "I'd really rather not talk about it".
--Jay
Most people I know found them because they saw one FTM transition on YouTube and found the topic fascinating (mostly because of the degree of physical changes, most people find it purely unbelievable when they first are exposed to FTMs), so they watched related videos...and of course many guys in their timelines and videos show their chest. It mostly seems to be gay guys and lesbians, sometimes straight women who are really into feminism and gender issues. I don't think it's widespread, but I've heard about it more times than I could count on both hands.
Quote from: birkin on April 12, 2014, 04:09:50 AM
Most people I know found them because they saw one FTM transition on YouTube and found the topic fascinating (mostly because of the degree of physical changes, most people find it purely unbelievable when they first are exposed to FTMs), so they watched related videos...and of course many guys in their timelines and videos show their chest. It mostly seems to be gay guys and lesbians, sometimes straight women who are really into feminism and gender issues. I don't think it's widespread, but I've heard about it more times than I could count on both hands.
Yes, of course, they might turn into allies or be allies. I have a number of (I think) straight cis women who watch my channel. I'm guessing they watch a number of FTM channels. I have really gotten some nice comments from these gals. (One thing I do NOT have is many/or any straight cis men.)
I go to some activities with gay guys (recreational, not dating or anything). It's the only male space that I've ever been in. Some of them have seen me with my shirt off but I got the idea that they may have seen trans guys before (since the group is specifically trans friendly). I've had a couple of them say it was a very good job, or something like that, giving me the idea that they maybe had something to compare it with.
--Jay
Quote from: harlee on April 12, 2014, 02:05:04 AM
I notice Dr. Garramone's chests because the scars are thin, nipples are placed perfectly and the whole job just looks so neat and clean :)
I agree. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D