Susan's Place Transgender Resources

How important is it to you to be beautiful? Do you care only whether you see yourself as beautiful, or do you want others to see you as beautiful also?

Honestly, I really wish I could be pretty or beautiful, but I don't feel that way and doubt I ever will.  I guess I do care about it because it seems to get me down.  As for other people, well of course I want them to see me as attractive.  It's only human.  Though, I realize that not everyone will be attracted to us and that's okay.  I guess I just don't want to be seen as ugly or something like that.  So yeah, I do care about my looks even if being beautiful to others isn't always the most important thing.  I guess I would like to feel okay with how I look myself most of all.  That's still a work in progress.

It is very important to me, I want to be a beautiful. I want others to see me as beautiful. Maybe I'm delusional, maybe I'm just shallow, to be beautiful for an MTF is no different from a Cis woman who wants to be beautiful. A lot of MTFs here on Susans and elsewhere are really pretty, I mean that. Maybe my eyes are biased, but when people say MTFs can't pass as attractive females, it's not true.

I missed out on the chance to be pretty by a few decades.  I feel for the girl inside who never got to go out and just be herself growing up.  For now I do what I can with what I have and am ok with that  I haven't the buckets of cash for FFS, and frankly that is a good thing.  I am an inside job, and I can spend a ton of time and bury my soul while obsessing over physical trivia.  I do pretty subtle make up, dress casually but with a sense of style that I like, and try to be beautiful to everyone. 
I have friends that love me, and I can make them smile.  That's beautiful enough.

Hugs,
Julie

Good question you've come up with.

Like learningtolive said, if i am happy with how i look to myself that would be okay, but yeah i wouldn't want to be considered as being ugly. It seems like I care alot more about how i look as a female, i still like to present well now but whenever i fantasize about living as a female i place more importance on my looks, but it gives me a sense of pride and confidence; just because i'm seeing that i am developing a greater self worth  or perhaps because i'm being my authentic self, i haven't figured that out yet.

I don't like how this sounds but, i like that people think i'm a little attractive now, and i'm scared that if i become more myself, if i transition, i'll be throwing that away and i may not ever have that living as a female. This may not be an issue when i actually decide to transition but for now its still well and truly on my list of worries lol

-ah julie so glad you posted that.

'I have friends that love me, and i can make them smile. That's beautiful enough'

THIS is where i will get to someday :) you are an inspiration :) thankyou

Beautiful inside: Very, very important. I am a far different person than "he" ever was and I hope that radiates from within me.

Beautiful outside: Ultimately I'm stuck with what I was born with so I do the best I can with it. I'll never win a beauty pageant but I can take care of things like nails, hair, and clothing to look the best that I can possibly look.

If you mean "conventionally attractive," then no, I do not care. But I have a VERY different standard of "beauty" than most. I've always been very much of the persuasion of "every woman is beautiful," and I really hate it when women are in that super-self-critical mindset of "oh I'm so ugly." I vowed from the beginning to never be one of those girls who was worried about living up to unrealistic beauty standards. As long as I'm perceived as female, I decided, I'd be happy. If others perceive me as beautiful, whatever, that's their judgment.

I had a dream a long time ago where God gave me the option of being reborn and starting over in a new life, but I'd be an overweight girl who was never very popular and never really seen as pretty by anyone. I could have that, or stay in my current life. I chose the former. So that's really all I've ever wanted. I was fully accepting of the possibility that I might end up as an "ugly" woman when I started transition.

Being beautiful ≠ looking a certain way. I wish more people could see that. Then they may see how beautiful they already are and there wouldn't be quite so much heartache in this world.

If someone were to see me as beautiful, I would not want it to be for my looks.

Yea, I suppose it would be great to be Greta Garbo , Even though she spent a lot of life in seclusion and told people she just wanted to be left alone. Personally I'm more into being female. The female spectrum in looks is as vast as the male spectrum. I Just see myself as a woman and I'm a happy camper. If you transition for beauty the chances are your never going to be satisfied .

I'm gorgeous, but only I know it :laugh:

Tough Question,
I think every women wants to look attractive. I know I do. But also I have to be realistic. I am never going to look like a super model, nor would I really want to at my age. The last thing I need is a bunch of guys slobbering all over me and following me around like lost puppies. Not that my ego wouldn't like it, but really I just want to reasonably pass in public and feel comfortable in my own skin.

I would be lying if I said I didn't like it when people call me pretty. But I put much more value in my heart and in my mind than I do my looks. Sure it's nice and a part of me does love it but my looks will fade with time but the woman I am will remain the same. And in the end that's the only beauty I'm concerned with.

I know that I'll never be a super model, but I do make an effort to be presentable and only wish to be seen as the woman I am

I believe true beauty begins on the inside

My post appears to have vanished somewhere..... so attempt no. 2

I am too old for beauty to be an issue and HRT has still got a lot of work to do on me because I started on such a low dose. Only in the last 6 months has the dose been high enough to really make changes, but changes are happening and the most important thing of all is that I am beginning to feel right and I am content.

Oddly enough, I seem to "pass" in public no matter what I am doing or where I go. This astounds me but I just accept it. No one has called me "sir" in 18 months.

Quote from: Cindy on April 11, 2014, 08:40:05 AM
I'm gorgeous, but only I know it :laugh:

I think your mistaken, I know it too

Yes, it matters to me. Not only for myself (so I can feel good about what I see in the mirror) but for my girlfriends (so we can go out looking great together!), And of course I would like to be attractive enough to start dating after this process is far enough along. I want a normal life again, some day.

QuoteAs long as I'm perceived as female, I decided, I'd be happy.

Carrie, that is a refreshing way to put it. I'm adopting this one, thanks :)

I value physical attractiveness probably a lot more than I should. Intellectually I know I shouldn't care about how good I look as long as I'm living life as me, but (and it kinda feels wrong to think this but there it is) as I kinda avoided the 'plain' gap (as Chris constantly reminds me) and never really had to come to terms with the possibility of being unable to attain physical beauty, I find myself thinking of my self-worth more in how I look than who I am.
Sadly I don't see that changing without good reason - my mind needs more than 'you shouldn't care' to actually stop caring, and in the meantime all I can do is try to keep my self-image under control.

And with that, I will leave off trying to explain conceit from the inside out.

Quote from: TaoRaven on April 11, 2014, 09:08:50 AM
Yes, it matters to me. Not only for myself (so I can feel good about what I see in the mirror) but for my girlfriends (so we can go out looking great together!), And of course I would like to be attractive enough to start dating after this process is far enough along. I want a normal life again, some day.

Meeee too. (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Foi60.tinypic.com%2F27yd84k.jpg&hash=a24f1233a605fa72bcbc831f68671f15a15e3ec0)

Quote from: TaoRaven on April 11, 2014, 09:08:50 AM
Yes, it matters to me. Not only for myself (so I can feel good about what I see in the mirror) but for my girlfriends (so we can go out looking great together!), And of course I would like to be attractive enough to start dating after this process is far enough along. I want a normal life again, some day.

Totally agree. Stop reading my thoughts lol but yeah on days when i feel I look good, I am in a much better mood. And also, this is the first time in my life I haven't had a lot of female friends but I want to again and lately women just come up and talk to me, especially when I'm primping my hair in my reflection and now, or lately, women are all "you look great sweetie and Ilove your short hair. You pull it off so well. Stop worying. You look fine. What are you going to meet your BF and want tolook your best. I feel you on that." or something like that. it keeps happening.

So yeah when I have more girlfriends and we go out clubbing or to a bar, I want to look good too, so we can be a team of scary pretty women that guys agonize about talking to. Plus, when everyone looks good, everyone feels good. I don't know maybe I'm superficial.

@CarrieLiz: A lot of women can't help that and it isn't just an act it really is how some women, like me, feel. the other day i thought I looked hideous and "oh so ugly" but I'm not like fishing for compliments cause I don't tell people but I find myself passing people and being all did she see my nose, I wonder what I looked like, I wonder how my outfit looked like to her: too big, too small, top much boobage?....blah blah blah..sometimes I even want to go up to people (usually women for some reason i care about how they see me more than men and I like men) and be like when you looked at me what did you think? But then i'd be in crazy lady land. okay, ya got me, I reside there on a regular basis but i try not to let people know lol

It matters a lot. Way more than it should probably. To the pointt that I secretly want to die young partly because of it lol

Quote from: Abbyxo on April 11, 2014, 01:36:57 PM
It matters a lot. Way more than it should probably. To the pointt that I secretly want to die young partly because of it lol

I'm just happy not to get objects thrown at me walking down the street ,although it's  nice to look good in a great dress.. I love the feel of looking good in a dress , which reminds me I'm over due for splurging on a beautiful dress.

Personal, I would say being beautiful is important to me. I want guys to look at me and find me sexually attractive. I can't explain it, I want their attention and I get cravings for it. Sadly I am a virgin so that might have something to do with it.

I suppose it depends on how you define beauty. If you mean beautiful in a tikkun olam sort of way, then yes, it is important that I see myself as someone who is interested in social justice and who behaves in a responsible way to the planet. Sometimes, I fall short.

If you mean physical beauty in a Jenna Talackova sort of way, well, that eats at me a bit. I would love to look like some of the girls I see floating around the campus I work at. I look a lot more like Larry Fine than Mila Kunis, and given that I am 60, I don't realistically expect to attain any degree of "conventional" beauty. That's for younger people, God bless them. That passed me by decades ago. I'm with Stephanie, looking in the mirror and seeing a woman looking back, that will do just fine :) The rest, as they say, is gravy.

Quote from: Abbyxo on April 11, 2014, 01:36:57 PM
It matters a lot. Way more than it should probably. To the pointt that I secretly want to die young partly because of it lol

Abby, live forever if you can! Right now, you are young and rather pretty (no I'm not hitting on you). You have years of being young and pretty ahead of you, but we do age, you know. So. Enjoy your youth, pretty girl, and slowly become a beautiful older woman. Take your time ;)

Quote from: EllieM on April 11, 2014, 02:21:51 PM

Abby, live forever if you can! Right now, you are young and rather pretty (no I'm not hitting on you). You have years of being young and pretty ahead of you, but we do age, you know. So. Enjoy your youth, pretty girl, and slowly become a beautiful older woman. Take your time ;)

Like Kurt Cobain said, better to burn out than to fade away. I can't think  of anything worse than growing old and withering and fading away. I want to be missed and remembered and nottt as an old grandmotherly figure. I want people to miss the way I feel and smell and taste and the way I made them feel. I think it's much more worth while to die when youre young and beautiful and leave people thinking it was too soon and wanting more, than to watch your life crumble before your eyes and die a shell of your former self and have everyone say "oh, it was her time".

^^^ I really hope this is not writing on the wall for you sweetie! No. No. No!

Quote from: Abbyxo on April 11, 2014, 02:43:22 PM
Like Kurt Cobain said, better to burn out than to fade away. I can't think  of anything worse than growing old and withering and fading away. I want to be missed and remembered and nottt as an old grandmotherly figure. I want people to miss the way I feel and smell and taste and the way I made them feel. I think it's much more worth while to die when youre young and beautiful and leave people thinking it was too soon and wanting more, than to watch your life crumble before your eyes and die a shell of your former self and have everyone say "oh, it was her time".

well. personally I have too many things I still need to do and experience than to bow down to the grim reaper . But every one has their own view of life and it is your life.

I really, really wish I could say it doesn't matter that much, I know I am a smart person, with lots to offer, and that I shouldn't be defined by my looks.....but I do, I care so much that I do things I would otherwise never do. This has to be my greatest insecurity, because I don't think no matter how much effort I put into it, I will never be able to attain the standard I want to.

But, I guess it comes with the territory right? Some days I find I can get by without obsessing about it, but never for long.

Quote from: suzifrommd on April 11, 2014, 07:21:23 AM
How important is it to you to be beautiful? Do you care only whether you see yourself as beautiful, or do you want others to see you as beautiful also?

I don't care about that at all. As long as I take care of the facial and body hair, brush the hair that is on my head, then I'm fine. I dress like a frumpy slob and I don't waste my time with make up. It doesn't affect my life at all. Not all women worry about dolling themselves up. I see it around here a LOT.

Quote from: Abbyxo on April 11, 2014, 02:43:22 PM

Quote from: EllieM on April 11, 2014, 02:21:51 PM

Abby, live forever if you can! Right now, you are young and rather pretty (no I'm not hitting on you). You have years of being young and pretty ahead of you, but we do age, you know. So. Enjoy your youth, pretty girl, and slowly become a beautiful older woman. Take your time ;)

Like Kurt Cobain said, better to burn out than to fade away. I can't think  of anything worse than growing old and withering and fading away. I want to be missed and remembered and nottt as an old grandmotherly figure. I want people to miss the way I feel and smell and taste and the way I made them feel. I think it's much more worth while to die when youre young and beautiful and leave people thinking it was too soon and wanting more, than to watch your life crumble before your eyes and die a shell of your former self and have everyone say "oh, it was her time".

I used to feel something similar when I was younger. Part of it was because I didn't know transition was possible (medically, I mean). I just didn't know how long I could hold out with the dysphoria. And it kind of felt like I was never really going to be alive anyway, because of not being able to be myself. As I got older, the goal post kept moving. First it was, I never wanted to live to be 30. Then around 24 or so, I started seeing how short that was, etc. I still struggle with it. And I think some of it is definitely residual from growing up/living as female. Which is one reason I talk about it so much.

This really inspired me though. Can she believe she's over 70?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uh5aW-uMb3Q&list=FLHPL0gFwDN7BqZb7WqKvtAA&index=8

I know a lot of people say similar kind of things. But she was a model when she was young, so I'm sure she got a lot of age crap thrown at her. But she didn't worry about it. And didn't worry that she was too old to start a new career in middle age (and look how successful she was at it, whether you're a fan or not). And I want to get to a place like that, where I can be any age and never think about it. And not hate my birthdays so much I don't even want them acknowledged.

Quote from: FA on April 11, 2014, 03:25:30 PM
Like Kurt Cobain said, better to burn out than to fade away. I can't think  of anything worse than growing old and withering and fading away. I want to be missed and remembered and nottt as an old grandmotherly figure. I want people to miss the way I feel and smell and taste and the way I made them feel. I think it's much more worth while to die when youre young and beautiful and leave people thinking it was too soon and wanting more, than to watch your life crumble before your eyes and die a shell of your former self and have everyone say "oh, it was her time".


I used to feel something similar when I was younger. Part of it was because I didn't know transition was possible (medically, I mean). I just didn't know how long I could hold out with the dysphoria. And it kind of felt like I was never really going to be alive anyway, because of not being able to be myself. As I got older, the goal post kept moving. First it was, I never wanted to live to be 30. Then around 24 or so, I started seeing how short that was, etc. I still struggle with it. And I think some of it is definitely residual from growing up/living as female. Which is one reason I talk about it so much.

This really inspired me though. Can she believe she's over 70?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uh5aW-uMb3Q&list=FLHPL0gFwDN7BqZb7WqKvtAA&index=8

I know a lot of people say similar kind of things. But she was a model when she was young, so I'm sure she got a lot of age crap thrown at her. But she didn't worry about it. And didn't worry that she was too old to start a new career in middle age (and look how successful she was at it, whether you're a fan or not). And I want to get to a place like that, where I can be any age and never think about it. And not hate my birthdays so much I don't even want them acknowledged.

I think in Martha's case it also helps when you have more money than god.

Quote from: Abbyxo on April 11, 2014, 02:43:22 PM
Like Kurt Cobain said, better to burn out than to fade away. I can't think  of anything worse than growing old and withering and fading away. I want to be missed and remembered and nottt as an old grandmotherly figure. I want people to miss the way I feel and smell and taste and the way I made them feel. I think it's much more worth while to die when youre young and beautiful and leave people thinking it was too soon and wanting more, than to watch your life crumble before your eyes and die a shell of your former self and have everyone say "oh, it was her time".

Well, actually, it was Neil Young's line and he's older than me! Honestly, Abby, I promise I would never steer you wrong, but every minute you are alive, being, learning, doing, you are creating memories, and while you are young, tasting youth, loving and being loved, you are making memories. And as you get older, and your desire for physical passion slowly transitions into the emotional connection you have for the people in your life, you will understand that your life is not crumbling, it is just changing and the change really, well it's just fine. When my mother left us, she was very old. I miss the way she felt and smelled. I miss the way she made me feel. A friend of mine, she's in her nineties, she's a real firecracker. I will miss her terribly when she goes. What I'm trying to tell you, Abby, is this: live fully, enjoy the journey, every step. I know you can't see it now, but you will :) In the meantime, just continue being fab, and don't fret the clock.

I'm going to have plastic surgery until my ears meet at the back of my head.

Not really.

I'll settle for "not fugly" and unmistakeably female though.

Quote from: EllieM on April 11, 2014, 03:43:59 PM

Well, actually, it was Neil Young's line and he's older than me! Honestly, Abby, I promise I would never steer you wrong, but every minute you are alive, being, learning, doing, you are creating memories, and while you are young, tasting youth, loving and being loved, you are making memories. And as you get older, and your desire for physical passion slowly transitions into the emotional connection you have for the people in your life, you will understand that your life is not crumbling, it is just changing and the change really, well it's just fine. When my mother left us, she was very old. I miss the way she felt and smelled. I miss the way she made me feel. A friend of mine, she's in her nineties, she's a real firecracker. I will miss her terribly when she goes. What I'm trying to tell you, Abby, is this: live fully, enjoy the journey, every step. I know you can't see it now, but you will :) In the meantime, just continue being fab, and don't fret the clock.

I knew somebody else said it first but I was too lazy too google it, especially cuz in this context Kurt's is more relevant. And I know that's how it works, when you get older your prioritieschange but I really don't want that. I don't ever want to get to the point where I'm okay with that. I know this is really morbid haha so I'll be done derailing the thread.

I guess it partly has to do with the way my life has always felt. I was like 7 when I first started thinking about suicide. A lot of my life has been very objectifying and I put a lot of value in my youth and looks. And people have always said I tempt the devil and stuff like that. I remember one time at a support group a transwoman said she expected to see my name and face in the TDOR one day. Don't remember what I was saying, but yeah.

I just can't see myself being old, especially with the way my life is heading right now. Its morbid I know its just how I feel. But maybe y'all are right though, maybe things will change :) maybe being older won't always seem so terrible, who knows!

Quote from: Abbyxo on April 11, 2014, 04:04:55 PM
I knew somebody else said it first but I was too lazy too google it, especially cuz in this context Kurt's is more relevant. And I know that's how it works, when you get older your prioritieschange but I really don't want that. I don't ever want to get to the point where I'm okay with that. I know this is really morbid haha so I'll be done derailing the thread.

I guess it partly has to do with the way my life has always felt. I was like 7 when I first started thinking about suicide. A lot of my life has been very objectifying and I put a lot of value in my youth and looks. And people have always said I tempt the devil and stuff like that. I remember one time at a support group a transwoman said she expected to see my name and face in the TDOR one day. Don't remember what I was saying, but yeah.

I just can't see myself being old, especially with the way my life is heading right now. Its morbid I know its just how I feel. But maybe y'all are right though, maybe things will change :) maybe being older won't always seem so terrible, who knows!

you might not have to worry  about it any way . there is a rumor going around that something  big is about to happen and it could involve human existence.

Abbyxo I'm really saddened.... (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Foi59.tinypic.com%2Frarwvp.jpg&hash=d80d9612c1b5fbd41aef26568d2cbd086bb2c3d2) I might be out of line, but what about your life partner? How do you think they'll feel if they knew you truly believe this? That this radiant point of light in their life will only be temporary. They will want you forever...

I won't lie, I'm a vain person.  ;)  Why not be as beautiful as I possible can when I look in the mirror? :-* I tend to look in the mirror a lot nowadays, especially because I was at a starting point where I said "this will never work". Now, I'm so close to reaching my goals.  ;D

Quote from: Evelyn K on April 11, 2014, 04:29:55 PM
Abbyxo I'm really saddened.... (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Foi59.tinypic.com%2Frarwvp.jpg&hash=d80d9612c1b5fbd41aef26568d2cbd086bb2c3d2) I might be out of line, but what about your life partner? How do you think they'll feel if they knew you truly believe this? That this radiant point of light in their life will only be temporary. They will want you forever...

You're really sweet thank you. I guess in a stupid way I would want a guy who would miss me like that but I don't think I'll ever find it. I've sucked a lotta dick but its never been attached to anyone I could see myself loving or loving me. I don't feel very lovable tbh f'ble but not lovable. All I can ever hope for from a guy is obsession not real love.

Last post on this thread, I've derailed it enough with my morbidness, sorryto the OP.

I think with maturity and introspection you'll come to change. I hope so.

You've graced a lot of us. Keep shining!

A lot of people get to a certain age and stop caring. They let things go. Grooming declines, the waist line expands and health takes a dive. Beautiful to me is within and without. I take care of myself and put in the effort to look good. I think I look beautiful, and it really makes me glow when others think so too.

Quote from: Nicolette on April 11, 2014, 05:18:43 PM
the waist line expands and health takes a dive.

Well, in the case of THAT stuff, I am making some progress in improving that aspect of myself. "Beauty" (image crap) means nothing, but attempting to take better care of yourself as far as your actual body is concerned, makes perfect sense. I still have a long ways to go and I will probably never have a perfect body, but I can do what I can to make things somewhat better than they were before.

Not interested at all. I accept that I'm fairly average-looking, and that's OK.

I want to look female, of course, but I'd be fine with not being conventionally attractive.

I respect everyone that doesn't think it's important.  I really want to think that way myself one day.  It sounds so liberating to not give a damn about how I look.  As for now, it means a lot to me and it sucks because I'll never be pretty to most people or even myself.  Like it or not, that's a frustrating thing that many of us have to live with.  And as a transwoman, I feel the standards of conventional beauty are stacked against me and I'll never come close to living up to them.  Ad sometimes I feel in order to be accepted as a female that I need to live up to some of them which is both unfair and not possible.  It sucks. 

Honestly, I care. Actually I care a lot. I am rather vain and it is also more how others see me than I see myself because I have a very distorted self view (hating how I looked/look most of the time). I'd like to say I didn't and I would be ok being however I looked but that isn't the case. I want to be attractive. I am lucky though that I have someone who loves me so deeply and is attracted to me. I need that because I am sure without her I'd be crazy with things like weight and other things people use to judge attractiveness.

It's very important to me. I want to be a nice normal attractive woman. I'm trying my best to get facial plastic surgery soon I hope. I enjoy looking my absolute best & it is so frustrating still having some male features.

Quote from: Abbyxo on April 11, 2014, 02:43:22 PM
I want to be missed and remembered and nottt as an old grandmotherly figure.

I agree. I don't want to be grandmotherly either.

But I will be.

And the grandmotherly people I know are a lot happier than the younger folk. I never know why.

Raising kids of my own, and feeling pleasure in their accomplishments and growth is a powerful, and very feminine emotion. Hopefully I will have grandchildren, and hopefully, I'll live long enough to see them graduate, marry, maybe even have children themselves. Maybe I'll get to see the nurture I gave bear fruit into an entire clan.

Yes, I wish I were young and beautiful forever. But if I never parented and never reached the point where I cherished what life remains because it afforded me one more opportunity to my descendants flourish, I would be missing out on a huge section of the female experience.

Quote from: suzifrommd on April 11, 2014, 07:54:55 PM
I agree. I don't want to be grandmotherly either.

But I will be.

And the grandmotherly people I know are a lot happier than the younger folk. I never know why.

Raising kids of my own, and feeling pleasure in their accomplishments and growth is a powerful, and very feminine emotion. Hopefully I will have grandchildren, and hopefully, I'll live long enough to see them graduate, marry, maybe even have children themselves. Maybe I'll get to see the nurture I gave bear fruit into an entire clan. Good/Great for you GF. I never had any offspring or children & regret it some. I've always been a "woman" & I just never could marry a cis woman & have children. It would have ended in divorce in no time.

Yes, I wish I were young and beautiful forever. But if I never parented and never reached the point where I cherished what life remains because it afforded me one more opportunity to my descendants flourish, I would be missing out on a huge section of the female experience.

Beauty is something that I would of course want, but I don't expect to to necessarily get it.
I do expect to eventually pass ( or at least be consistently androgynous) and to stay fit for at least the next 10-20 years.

Not being able to recognize faces makes it a little easier to not need to be beautiful to my own eyes ...

Now internal beauty... Of course that is important to me. That is why I am making the transition!

When I start transitioning, I'll be a good age for beginning HRT because it will have optimal effects. I already have a feminine facial structure and my hair is long, I've tested out wigs and makeup in apps and I've been told countless times in numerous places including my Instagram that I am beautiful. I even got a few comments where people don't believe I'm even transgender, because they think I'm a biological woman. Someone even said, in, admittedly, a context I don't quite get, that I'm not transgender. Whether they were giving me the ultimate compliment, are clueless, or have something against me to the point where they would say something like that to upset me, I'm not sure. Regardless, I do get a LOT of comments calling me things such as "stunning" and "gorgeous". This is all pre-HRT, too. I've never talked to a single person who is not either a transgirl or a person very knowledgable in trans subjects that told me I'd be anything less than model status.

Glamour has always been a thing I'm infatuated with, and is not necessarily related to transitioning. Not to be specific, but the way some people in the past have treated me based on the fact that I identified as female online and never gave proof because I had always been in boymode was horrific, the offensive names they had called me, the incessant and constant bullying over my gender, gender identity, sexuality, the way these men treated me...it was despicable...and the complete lack of guys I've found in real life who would be willing to date me as a boy is blaring. I'm missing my prom because of this, as well as the fact there is no way in HELL I'll ever show up with male clothes in such a gender-specific clothing event. That'd make me feel so uncomfortable.

So all these things in mind...the way people have hurt me in the past because I'm 'not really a girl', the way I've been rejected time and time again, social expectations regarding clothing, attitude, posture and everything else that I'm expected to follow...I don't just want to be female...I want to be the most gorgeous girl I can be. I want heads to turn when they look at me, in a positive way, I want to look biologically female, I want to be a model. I want everyone who ever talked ->-bleeped-<- about me to know that they never brought me down, that the woman they toyed with and left behind really turns out to be more beautiful, on the inside and outside, than anyone they will ever date. Being an unattractive female will prove people's points about me, and I know for a near-fact that I won't be ugly as a woman, even though my father tries to tell me that. That being said, I will transition regardless of if I'm beautiful or not.

I am not a male. In no way except biological could I ever be considered male. There is not a single moment in any day where I can say that I have done or felt something remotely masculine. Whenever there is a boy or girl group, I always drift over towards the girls. Most of my friends are either girls, who I am much more comfortable with, or more feminine/accepting guys. I cannot stand being referred to as a male through the use of incorrect gender pronouns, I hate feeling pressured to conform to the male stereotype of wearing only certain clothes that aren't feminine, I hate feeling like I have to listen to a certain type of music, and the thing is, I don't do anything masculine. It's not that I would even assimilate no matter how much the pressure to be masculine was. My personal interests are more in the field of a female's, and that's just what I like. I don't speak masculine, I don't walk masculine, I don't feel masculine, I'm seriously cursed in the body of a male. I've been living as a female all but physically for a long, long, time now, and it was only relatively recently that I learned of the exact ways to achieve my dreams.

I can't tell you how amazing it feels that after years of identifying as a female on the inside, I've finally learned that it is an achievable feat, that my one true dream in life can and will come true, and in just under a year and a half, if not a little bit longer...I'm ecstatic. I can't wait to be that girl I've always dreamed of, with the extra perks of possibly being a model.

I've come to love life.

I would be a liar if I said it's not important to me that I look my best or pretty good when I leave the house, but we're only given what we're given. My boyfriend thinks I'm pretty, and that IS VERY IMPORTANT to me. I think (read: I hope!) I look good for four months shy of 60, though, and it bothers me to see how many women even thirty years younger than me just let themselves go after marriage or children or a certain age. Being a woman is a privilege, as far as I'm concerned and I work my butt off to become who I am, a woman. I'm going to get my knee surgery and then back surgery as soon as it's viable, so I can feel more normal and work to stay attractive.

I don't know because now i think now matter how pretty I look I wont see it. Some guy today wanted to hang out with me out of the blue (or asked me if I wanted company; i was walking) and he was really good looking and tall and I wish I did it but I didn't have the time. he prolly thought I shot him down as i mentioned something about a BF. But I just don't see it.

I'm the type that actually doesn't want to be drop dead gorgeous. I'm shooting for the cute in an average sort of way look. I already know I won't turn out, well, as someone else said, fugly, :icon_yikes: lol! :icon_joy: I already draw too much attention at my local boat ramp from too many guys wanting to launch my boat for me. One time it made me so nervous I looked like an idiot and lost my transom saver -which cost me $75. to replace. I know they're just, well, being guys but it's unnerving. Especially when I get that staring at my feet and working their way up my legs look. Of course I always refuse then I have a male audience until I back my boat off the trailer and tie up at the dock. And I know I'm far from pretty that's the funny part. This is just one example of unwanted attention. I do though enjoy it when guys open doors for me and show other old fashioned politeness toward me as a lady. I suppose the former (boat ramp example) is something all of we girls have to put up with. After all, not many girls launch and retrieve their own boat, lol! :laugh:

I think all of us as women want to look our best which is natural and part of being a woman. It's in our nature. And for certain occasions we tend to dress up more for than others. Looking our best is just part of being a woman. :icon_flower:

Now you Abbey, you have nothing to worry about. Your already exceptionally beautiful and young enough to have many many years to enjoy it! :icon_bunch:

Hi,

At over 66 theres no way ill be pretty let alone at age 10, i have masculine facial features im allso female,    body wise is good no issues there, and what you see is female, strong for a female of my size shape and weight, 11 stone = 156 lb's,

Im happy in myself allways have been so for an intersexed person im okay, i sure dont pass or blend in so i work on because im different i use that as a means to my acceptance , im not trying to be other than myself and who i am so i dress a bit different,   though im female it does not mean i conform to what would be percived as i have to be an all out female in every way, im not,

i use my masculine strengths and carry that over to my female / woman side of myself and by doing so i have  a greater acceptance from others and that has been well proved by most they know my background and dont expect myself to be other than true to who i am,

I passed the test of acceptance a few years ago so now i build on what i have as a person first , and second  as a female woman.

So when the crunch comes my friends will back me up both male and female  that allso comes from some very  lovely neat people who are no doubt my real friends,

...noeleena...

(triggers)





Boy or girl, I'd kill myself if I had no chance of being pretty. Not even joking, I don't have anything else.... yeah it's horribly immature but if I'm being honest, that's how I feel.

And I'm with Abby here.. I never planned on getting old. I don't want to think about it, tbh I still live like I'm 12 and don't feel older either. Even when I was seriously 12 I knew i wanted to die young. I can't really imagine getting to that point and going, "oh, I was wrong all along, life is so beautiful ;-;" I mean I feel like dying pretty much as often as I feel like eating. And significantly more like dying than eating when I feel uggo, lol. It's just always somewhere close to my consciousness.

Can tomboys be beautiful? Absolutely. Rocking out a red lipstick while taking changing out a fried alternator? It's about attitude and confidence, hehe. For me, beauty is for myself, I don't feel I need satisfaction like that. I love myself which is perfect.

Very important.. I spend on lot of time trying to look attractive.. why I love the attention I get from guys.

THe makeup must be perfect, my nails always neatly painted, my hair nicely styled and of course I love wearing a short skirt or dress to show off my best feature my legs.. They too I spend time making them look perfect.. I shave them at least 3 times a week.. to keep them silky smooth.. and always apply lotion.

and my d cup breasts.. got to show off cleavage..

DELETED

I want to feel beautiful no matter how I appear in peoples eyes...

At my age it's more a case of trying to look well put together and like I take some time over my appearance than being beautiful.  I'd take unmistakably female and looking ok for my age in a heartbeat.

I guess transitioning later in life there are all of the things that I've wanted to do all these years to make myself look good, and now  I am finally free to do them.

That's why I like trying to look my best.

But I don't need to be beautiful :)

Quote from: sad panda on April 12, 2014, 01:04:03 AM
(triggers)





Boy or girl, I'd kill myself if I had no chance of being pretty. Not even joking, I don't have anything else.... yeah it's horribly immature but if I'm being honest, that's how I feel.

And I'm with Abby here.. I never planned on getting old. I don't want to think about it, tbh I still live like I'm 12 and don't feel older either. Even when I was seriously 12 I knew i wanted to die young. I can't really imagine getting to that point and going, "oh, I was wrong all along, life is so beautiful ;-;" I mean I feel like dying pretty much as often as I feel like eating. And significantly more like dying than eating when I feel uggo, lol. It's just always somewhere close to my consciousness.

Yeah and like the thing is like, its even on here tbh. People are always so nice to me. I'm sure a ton hate me but by and large they're nice and always say things like I bring so much to the conversation and I'm like..wut lol? I don't post that much but look at my thumbs up to post ratio. Higher than a lotta peeps who post a ton. Why? Cuz I have a pic and its pretty. And THATS what I bring to the convo.

Everybody on here can look past my controversial B.S. and the stuff that I say that's just passive aggressive. And suure I don't mean to be mean spirited,but people are only willing to look at my intensions cuz I look pretty. Most of why I post is just whiny, complaining, downerish or even what would otherwise be called transphobic.

And it's like it's all that I can think about anymore.I spend my life looking in mirrors. Everybody in my life says I'm vapid and shallow. I slashed my leg apart pretty badly yesterday cuz my hair is at an awkward length (it was a lott of stuff but thats what really set me off) and it triggered me so badly. I couldn't stand my face and I literally wanted to take those stupid f-ing razors to it. And its so shallow and its stupid and I know but its all I f-ing care about anymore cuz it's all I f-ing have.

Quote from: FalsePrincess on April 12, 2014, 01:21:07 AM
I want to feel beautiful no matter how I appear in peoples eyes...

FP I've seen your photos and you are pretty whether you see it or not. Don't let anyone tell you any different. :icon_flower:

Depends on how we are defining beauty.. I'll never be conventionally beautiful from a physical perspective. On the plus side, I am fairly well constructed for a woman my age. I'm one of the odd ones who recognises internal beauty as well as external beauty.. And you only really need one of them to be a beautiful person to me. As for my own looks, I'm happy being average looking. Makes it so much easier to blend in to forest.

I never planned on getting old.. 30 was my limit. Live fast, die young and have a good looking corpse.. Somehow, it just didn't happen. Not for want of trying. I really shouldn't still be here. But here I am, 8 years past my Use By date and I seem to have learnt a little secret along the way. It's not that you get less beautiful as you age, it's just your target audience tends to shrink.

Quote from: Abbyxo on April 12, 2014, 01:42:52 AM
Yeah and like the thing is like, its even on here tbh. People are always so nice to me. I'm sure a ton hate me but by and large they're nice and always say things like I bring so much to the conversation and I'm like..wut lol? I don't post that much but look at my thumbs up to post ratio. Higher than a lotta peeps who post a ton. Why? Cuz I have a pic and its pretty. And THATS what I bring to the convo.

Everybody on here can look past my controversial B.S. and the stuff that I say that's just passive aggressive. And suure I don't mean to be mean spirited,but people are only willing to look at my intensions cuz I look pretty. Most of why I post is just whiny, complaining, downerish or even what would otherwise be called transphobic.

And it's like it's all that I can think about anymore.I spend my life looking in mirrors. Everybody in my life says I'm vapid and shallow. I slashed my leg apart pretty badly yesterday cuz my hair is at an awkward length (it was a lott of stuff but thats what really set me off) and it triggered me so badly. I couldn't stand my face and I literally wanted to take those stupid f-ing razors to it. And its so shallow and its stupid and I know but its all I f-ing care about anymore cuz it's all I f-ing have.

This is very very sad you feel this way Abby. If that's really the way you feel then......-Ask yourself this, why in the world would anyone on here hate you? That's just silly. Your making assumptions based on literally nothing. And you know what they say about assumptions. Personally I could give a flying sh*t less if your pretty or look like Mr. Magoo. I won't reply to your post unless you've something interesting to say, is relevant to my situation, or could help our fellow sisters out in some way and that's the bottom line. So go ahead and wallow in self pity if you want. Or, here's an idea, if you think your Avatar pic is too pretty let's see one of you just after getting out of bed (clothed of course)-bed head and all!

Quote from: Abbyxo on April 12, 2014, 01:42:52 AM
Yeah and like the thing is like, its even on here tbh. People are always so nice to me. I'm sure a ton hate me but by and large they're nice and always say things like I bring so much to the conversation and I'm like..wut lol? I don't post that much but look at my thumbs up to post ratio. Higher than a lotta peeps who post a ton. Why? Cuz I have a pic and its pretty. And THATS what I bring to the convo.

Everybody on here can look past my controversial B.S.and the stuff that I say that's just passive aggressive. And suure I don't mean to be mean spirited,but people are only willing to look at my intensions cuz I look pretty. Most of why I post is just whiny, complaining, downerish or even what would otherwise be called transphobic.

And it's like it's all that I can think about anymore.I spend my life looking in mirrors. Everybody in my life says I'm vapid and shallow. I slashed my leg apart pretty badly yesterday cuz my hair is at an awkward length (it was a lott of stuff but thats what really set me off) and it triggered me so badly. I couldn't stand my face and I literally wanted to take those stupid f-ing razors to it. And its so shallow and its stupid and I know but its all I f-ing care about anymore cuz it's all I f-ing have.

Hah yeah it's not even funny, fact is it matters to people, even people who make it their mission to treat people equally regardless of looks. They will always like the same personality better on a pretty girl (maybe for some people once they realize she doesn't bite, but still.)

And that's why it matters to me, cuz i know that wherever I go, whoever i talk to, it will never ever count against me to be pretty. It will always make people like me better, treat me better, love me more, again, the only exception being if their self worth is too low to think they deserve whatever from me or to believe I would care about them.

It's funny too, there's this stupid face people make when they meet you, you know, the "oh, you're pretty!" face. They're so obvious about it too.

And it's not even that I feel pretty, but people treat me like I am so I know they think it. It's the only thing I've ever had from anyone, cuz I remember what it is to be not pretty. To just be a gross blob to people. I never wanna feel that again. Ever. It's got to be the lowest feeling that exists.

Quote from: Joanna Dark on April 12, 2014, 01:18:41 AM
That's just so sad i think I'm about to cry. But regardless, your worth much more than just being pretty. yea, I'm a total hypocrite cause Im obsessed with my looks, especially now I somehow look way more pretty than even a month ago. You're young and you write well have you ever thought about being a magazine editor? It's rewarding, you're around all women, it's fun, you get free makeup and clothes, I could go on and on. Think about it because your worth more than that. My BF is really hot, like model hot (6'1, 190, blah blah...pretty face but still rugged) and he got in a horrid car crash and lost the use of his lower left arm. He's lucky he isn't dead. But, even though this happened and he is incredibly self-conscious about it except around me, he struggles on.

I was a woman's mag editor for years and years and it was awesome and i think it's something you;d not only enjoy, but also be really good at it becuase it rewuires a certain amount of self awareness and awareness of peeps in general and you got that.

Mm thanks lol, but not my thing, I want to be a nurse or a dr but I would never trust myself with people's health so, sucks lol. I don't think i will ever have a job tbh.

Quote from: Allyda on April 12, 2014, 02:05:58 AM
This is very very sad you feel this way Abby. If that's really the way you feel then......-Ask yourself this, why in the world would anyone on here hate you? That's just silly. Your making assumptions based on literally nothing. And you know what they say about assumptions. Personally I could give a flying sh*t less if your pretty or look like Mr. Magoo. I won't reply to your post unless you've something interesting to say, is relevant to my situation, or could help our fellow sisters out in some way and that's the bottom line. So go ahead and wallow in self pity if you want. Or, here's an idea, if you think your Avatar pic is too pretty let's see one of you just after getting out of bed (clothed of course)-bed head and all!

Some people on here hate me because of the things I've said. A couple have even said so in as many words. I don't try to be mean I'm just opinionated and I guess its sometimes combative and triggering. I'm not a mean person its just yeah. And when im not being opinionated im usually whining or I guess feeling sorry for myself like you said. But then by and large people are nice and I guess I think its cuz of that cuz that's how it is in real life, so many people just like me or pretend to like me cuz they think I'm pretty. I'm not saying anyone in particular either,so don't get offended

And then that's the thing its always made out to be self pity. Maybe a lot of it is but its almost like everyones like "ohh if I were pretty I wouldn't be complaining cuz life would be swell" so everybody acts like I bring everything on myself but its nott just that, you all don't know my life or my brain or my past, and I'm not saying you should care but don't go around acting like its all just me being a whiny baby cuz I'm pretty and my life should automatically be easy. a lot of things ARE easier cuz I'm pretty yeah, and that's exactly why all my self worth is centered around looks to the point f obsession and that's why I wana die young

I'm sorry if the things I say are off base or not accurate its just how I feel and I can't help it and I'm having a bad day and I know tomorrows go a be even worse cuz its my stupid f-ing birthday. So I wont post cuz I know I sound like a self absorbed arrogant whiny b-ch so I'm sorry about that and I'm sorry for putting words in peoples mouths

EDIT:

QuoteHah yeah it's not even funny, fact is it matters to people, even people who make it their mission to treat people equally regardless of looks. They will always like the same personality better on a pretty girl (maybe for some people once they realize she doesn't bite, but still.)

And that's why it matters to me, cuz i know that wherever I go, whoever i talk to, it will never ever count against me to be pretty. It will always make people like me better, treat me better, love me more, again, the only exception being if their self worth is too low to think they deserve whatever from me or to believe I would care about them.

It's funny too, there's this stupid face people make when they meet you, you know, the "oh, you're pretty!" face. They're so obvious about it too.

And it's not even that I feel pretty, but people treat me like I am so I know they think it. It's the only thing I've ever had from anyone, cuz I remember what it is to be not pretty. To just be a gross blob to people. I never wanna feel that again. Ever. It's got to be the lowest feeling that exists.

Exactly, like this, exactly. When I wasn't pretty I was dead to the world. Life was horrible. Idont even know that person. Everything was so horrible it was like I wasn't even alive to people or even to myself.

And yeah, I've turned into such an arrogant b-ch too and I hate myself for it. I hate reading what I'm writing right now

No-one here hates you

Have you considered that maybe some people here care about you and are trying to help you?

You are a young and attractive individual, possibly actively pursuing possibilities (Modeling) that would make good use of your attributes would be better time spent rather than raising a stink on a support site

Just a thought

Quote from: Abbyxo on April 12, 2014, 02:20:30 AM


And yeah, I've turned into such an arrogant b-tch too and I hate myself for it. I hate reading what I'm writing right now

I dunno. Being pretty is basically an opt in thing for most girls anyway, feminine looks are more generic than unique. If you sell your soul for it anyway at least you should have some claim to your experience...

I'm sure they proved it's all true anyway. Though it still surprises me every time how little people actually care who you are if you have the right face. I always feel like I'm doing something wrong and leaving bad impressions but in reality people always have a surprisingly positive impression of me. And it's definitely not cuz of my math skillz or something, lol.

And I absolutely know that people treat me better, are more lenient, try to agree with me more and give me more attention here if I post a pic or esp if I have one as my avatar, the difference is incredible. But I'm not blaming anyone for that or anything, it's just how people work I guess.

I honestly just think its a product of how objectified transwomen are, so much so that it internalizes. A transgirls success is measured by how pretty she is and I'm not blaming people on here for internalizing that cuz its just natural. So cuz I'm pretty people on here are a bit nicer cuz pretty subconsciously equals success. And if a transgirls pretty it somehow validates others' experiences. Its more to do with transphobia and the effect it has but I don't judge.

Or maybe its just me projecting my real world experiences on to people on here. I guess maybe I just hate my personality so much I can't see why anyone here would "care about me" for more than that cuz why? I see no reason

Yeah, being pretty is important, but as has been stated, we should remain realistic.

I never considered transition in the past as a viable option because I didn't feel that I could be pretty enough. My height was a big factor-I was too tall.

These days, that physicality matters less to me. I now kind of relish the idea of being a tall woman- it feels empowering to me in a way my height never was as a man. I mean, I could be the woman who doesn't need help to reach the top shelf!

I've been a relatively-handsome guy and it hasn't done much to feed my soul, so I'll take what I can get at this point if I transition. I probably won't be conventionally beautiful. I'll most likely need to experiment a lot before I find a look that works for me, and even then I won't be signing any modeling contracts. But if I feel pretty, then that will be huge for me. And I think feeling pretty is simply liking what you see in the mirror. Feeling pretty is important. Looking pretty? That's too subjective.

I don't need to be a stunner, nor do I expect to be. I'm a tall, geeky dude, and I'll be a tall, geeky chick. It's possible that I might look a little off, but hopefully I can look cis, as that part is pretty important to me.  I'll bring my personality, my sense of humor, and my unique sense of style to the table, and that ought to work things in my favor. I'll be a female version of my current self, and at this point I'm okay with that since I'm finally okay with me; it's just the gender that's an issue.

So, is it important to be pretty? Maybe. Is it important to feel pretty? Absolutely. Is it important to be happy with yourself? More than anything.

Sweet dreams, all!
Cheers,
Teg

Quote from: Abbyxo on April 12, 2014, 03:01:21 AM
I honestly just think its a product of how objectified transwomen are, so much so that it internalizes. A transgirls success is measured by how pretty she is and I'm not blaming people on here for internalizing that cuz its just natural. So cuz I'm pretty people on here are a bit nicer cuz pretty subconsciously equals success. And if a transgirls pretty it somehow validates others' experiences. Its more to do with transphobia and the effect it has but I don't judge.

Or maybe its just me projecting my real world experiences on to people on here. I guess maybe I just hate my personality so much I can't see why anyone here would "care about me" for more than that cuz why? I see no reason

Naw, couldn't care less if you looked like a stick in the mud, just trying to help you make good use of your attributes

Quote from: Abbyxo on April 12, 2014, 03:01:21 AM
I honestly just think its a product of how objectified transwomen are, so much so that it internalizes. A transgirls success is measured by how pretty she is and I'm not blaming people on here for internalizing that cuz its just natural. So cuz I'm pretty people on here are a bit nicer cuz pretty subconsciously equals success. And if a transgirls pretty it somehow validates others' experiences. Its more to do with transphobia and the effect it has but I don't judge.

Or maybe its just me projecting my real world experiences on to people on here. I guess maybe I just hate my personality so much I can't see why anyone here would "care about me" for more than that cuz why? I see no reason

Abby everything you've said on this page I agree with. It's pretty much why I've never posted a pic and probably won't ever actually.

Regarding the thread topic. I say yes because "pretty" people are always treated better in our society. As messed up as that is, it's the sad truth. However at the same time I think taking care of ourselves, staying healthy equates to a personal natural beauty. So if you feel beautiful then you'll more than likely project that image even if you don't fit society's standard of beauty.

Quote from: Abbyxo on April 12, 2014, 03:01:21 AM
I honestly just think its a product of how objectified transwomen are, so much so that it internalizes. A transgirls success is measured by how pretty she is and I'm not blaming people on here for internalizing that cuz its just natural. So cuz I'm pretty people on here are a bit nicer cuz pretty subconsciously equals success. And if a transgirls pretty it somehow validates others' experiences. Its more to do with transphobia and the effect it has but I don't judge.

Or maybe its just me projecting my real world experiences on to people on here. I guess maybe I just hate my personality so much I can't see why anyone here would "care about me" for more than that cuz why? I see no reason

Abby,
I won't lie-you are pretty. You're a little cutie, and I wish I had your looks. Your prettiness makes me want to like you, which is a definite plus for you. However, if you proved yourself to be a nasty little thing, then I would look past your looks quite easily. If people are still supporting you, then it's probably because you haven't been quite the nasty thing you believe yourself to be. Yes, you are cute. However, that doesn't mean that people only like you because you're cute. Clearly they see more than that.

I want you to consider something, hon. The people here, regardless of age, have all been through quite a lot of soul-searching and character-building to reach this point in their lives. We haven't had the luxury of sleepwalking through life, oblivious to the roles we engender, or how they sway our actions or our perceptions.  We haven't had the luxury of living a life of uncomplicated emotions. We have lived through pain and learned the lessons that come with that. We have evolved as a result. We think about things, analyze them, try to understand them. It's a natural byproduct of spending every waking moment trying to understand and psychoanalyze ourselves.

My point is, I think most of us here have a highly-developed sense of compassion and empathy. You think that you are coming off as bitchy, but it's quite possible that what is really being read by the members here is that you are scared, or in pain, or upset. Maybe they're standing by you because they can see what you really mean and what you are going through.

We shouldn't try to invalidate the support that is offered to us by telling ourselves we don't deserve it. You're going through a rough patch right now, what with your birthday coming up and all. Is it just because you're getting older, or is there another reason? I hated my birthday for nigh a decade because in my head it  was a reminder that nobody cared about me or loved me enough to celebrate me.

So, Aly, if you're being a bitch, I think that you'll be told, although probably in kinder terms. If you aren't being sent that message, then stop projecting it onto your brothers and sisters here. You'll just serve to alienate yourself and bring yourself down by submitting to this persecution complex and victim mentality.

Hang in there, girl. You're just making your way through a stormy time. But remember that we 're here to offer you an umbrella and hand you a towel.

I hope your weekend gives you a reason to smile. It's a cute smile, after all.

Cheers,
Tegan

Quote from: Abbyxo on April 12, 2014, 03:01:21 AM
I honestly just think its a product of how objectified transwomen are, so much so that it internalizes. A transgirls success is measured by how pretty she is and I'm not blaming people on here for internalizing that cuz its just natural. So cuz I'm pretty people on here are a bit nicer cuz pretty subconsciously equals success. And if a transgirls pretty it somehow validates others' experiences. Its more to do with transphobia and the effect it has but I don't judge.

Or maybe its just me projecting my real world experiences on to people on here. I guess maybe I just hate my personality so much I can't see why anyone here would "care about me" for more than that cuz why? I see no reason

Very interesting analogy Abby... Now, let me tell you why I like you, and it has nothing to do with how pretty you are. Your opinionated, strong willed, when you have something to say, you say it, yet you sometimes don't let the cat totally out of the bag as to your emotions at times. Your blunt and to the point, and usually don't mince words or beat around the bush. I respect that in a person. Yet and still your not afraid to show your weaker side and wear your emotions on your sleeve. Some will say that is a bad quality, I personally do not think that. You are full of life, even though you get down just like the rest of us, you hide it behind this cute billy bad ass attitude. Which is not an insult mind you, just an observation.

You have a long life ahead of you and it is just my stupid opinion but I think your attitude will change as to the growing old thing. For now though go out and live life to your your fullest. You only get one go around so make it worth while. 

I feel kind of terrible for it, but as someone else mentioned, I really don't have any other goals, that keep my mind that extremely busy, like wanting to be beautiful and attractive.

Thank G-d, I might have a perspective of reaching my goal at least partially, at least to some extent, where I would be able to live my life. Not being pretty holds me from meeting new people, going out, enjoying my life, I don't want to do anything unless I feel beautiful. Like I'm this shallow, superficial, blonde imbecile that worries how she looks 24/7. I tried fighting it, but we hear everywhere "be yourself", and as far as I can remember, even when I was a child, I always wanted to be beautiful. It is me... It's me. I'm trying to be myself.

Although reaching this goal can be quite lengthy and draining, so I decided to ask my local GP for counselling sessions, as from time to time I get this day where I'm on the verge of having a mental breakdown because of the way I look, so I decided to combat it slightly, just so that I would keep it together.

My main concerns will be 1) can I pass, and 2) can I look feminine?  Everything else won't matter as much, but I'd probably play around once in a while to see what different looks I can achieve.  I imagine I'd like to look pretty.

I think (to some degree) everyone is concerned about their appearance, especially the guys who want to look manly and heterosexual.  I know for sure I am as a guy.

It was fairly important, but I've mostly given up on it. Now I'm just trying to keep what little sanity I may still possess.

I'd be lying if I said I didn't care about looks, or else I think my dysphoria would be less intense (it's mostly triggered by looking at myself and seeing a man), but I'd be happy to pass and be attractive enough that some guys/gals would be interested in me. I don't need to be a supermodel, but I don't want to be ostracized either.

To be honest from what I've discovered if you want to find happiness in this life and in your transition is that you shouldn't focus too much on your outer appearance. Focus on your heart and your mind for they are far more important for living a life that is full of happiness. :) 

Quote from: sad panda on April 12, 2014, 02:51:38 AM
And I absolutely know that people treat me better, are more lenient, try to agree with me more and give me more attention here if I post a pic or esp if I have one as my avatar, the difference is incredible. But I'm not blaming anyone for that or anything, it's just how people work I guess.

Well, I wonder if part of it is that you've been around here awhile, having multiple names and accounts. And so when you come in under a new name, we don't know until you post a pic. And then we're like 'oh it's 'fiercegirl'!' I for one, liked you long before I ever saw your pic (I don't tend to look in the picture threads). You have a very distinct personality. So, I doubt looks is why people like you here. Though of course, you're right. Pretty people are treated better.

Part of it may also be age on here. More leeway tends to be given and a lot of members may have daughters your age.

Oh beauty... yeah I don't know it's weird. I'll set my bull->-bleeped-<- self-deprecation button aside and say that I've been considered attractive pretty much all my life. I was a super-cute kid, an attractive young man (though I was my least conventionally attractive at this stage), and an even more attractive woman. It's something I'm aware of but also often take for granted.

I answered "Not that important" in the poll because I spend very little time on my appearance. The most you'll see me do is wear lipstick and mascara on a date. But I also know that the reason that's possible is that I have the privilege of looking the way I do. I slept over at my boyfriend's last night and I caught him staring at me with such admiration and desire as I was putting on clothes this morning to go to dance class. And I thought to myself, how many transwomen get to experience this kind of admiration, especially ones who haven't had any surgery except for SRS? I do feel lucky that way.

There are hard things about it though, especially among transwomen. There's a lot of literature that talks about how really attractive women find it hard to make close female friends. I'm above-average among women in general, but I'm aware that I'm exceptional among transwomen, and that's always caused social problems for me. It's isolating sometimes not being able to form close friendships with other transwomen because I trigger jealousy or dysphoria, or I get pursued as a kind of trophy (if she's my friend then it must mean I'm attractive too, etc.).

Though also, ever since I was a child, I never felt fully *seen*. There's a mind, a heart, and a soul inside of me that a lot of people don't get to experience because they only see me as a face or a body. So ever since I was young, I determined that I will be the best person I can become because I can't only be my appearance. This is partly a response to Abby. The people I gravitate towards are the ones who see the attractiveness as icing on the cake, rather than the cake itself. Over the years, not spending time on my appearance and sometimes actively doing things I know would make me less conventionally attractive (like chopping off my long blonde hair and coloring it blue) has allowed me to feel seen and valued apart from physical beauty. And that's a great feeling.

So it's all a lottery. I made out pretty well, so I feel an obligation to be a good person to somehow justify what luck has given me. Despite my deep flaws (including the vanity that's a part of this post), being more than my looks has been a lifelong and constant and worthwhile effort.

Quote from: big head horsey-faced cookie monster on April 12, 2014, 07:40:20 AM
It was fairly important, but I've mostly given up on it. Now I'm just trying to keep what little sanity I may still possess.

I'm just trying to survive.

Quote from: Abbyxo on April 12, 2014, 03:01:21 AM
I honestly just think its a product of how objectified transwomen are, so much so that it internalizes. A transgirls success is measured by how pretty she is and I'm not blaming people on here for internalizing that cuz its just natural. So cuz I'm pretty people on here are a bit nicer cuz pretty subconsciously equals success. And if a transgirls pretty it somehow validates others' experiences. Its more to do with transphobia and the effect it has but I don't judge.

Or maybe its just me projecting my real world experiences on to people on here. I guess maybe I just hate my personality so much I can't see why anyone here would "care about me" for more than that cuz why? I see no reason

You are pretty and you are a success in your own right. A lot of us may look up to you ... because you are an inspiration and some may idolize you, it's easy to do in our tiny little bubble community here... But let's keep things in perspective ... I'll post this video to help us all re-frame our minds on what pretty and true femininity really is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPyPZNA89iQ

None of us will ever achieve this kind of beauty. *ever*. So let's all get back to being our humble selves and thank the unknown powers above that we have a life to live (with our own unique gifts) in the first place.

Quote from: Evelyn K on April 12, 2014, 11:55:22 AM
But let's keep things in perspective ... I'll post this video to help us all re-frame our minds on what pretty and true femininity really is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPyPZNA89iQ

None of us will ever achieve this kind of beauty. *ever*. So let's all get back to being our humble selves and thank the unknown powers above that we have a life to live (with our own unique gifts) in the first place.

I can't really say much about femininity (because I don't know), but I don't really compare 'prettiness', if you're pretty, you're pretty. She is 'super model pretty', but other women are beautiful in their own, different way.

I've seen some very pretty MTFs, here and elsewhere. I honestly don't think they're any less than cis woman. I can name more than a few here, but I won't, but maybe it's just my eyes.

Quote from: MbutF on April 12, 2014, 01:27:00 PM

Quote from: Evelyn K on April 12, 2014, 11:55:22 AM
But let's keep things in perspective ... I'll post this video to help us all re-frame our minds on what pretty and true femininity really is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPyPZNA89iQ

None of us will ever achieve this kind of beauty. *ever*. So let's all get back to being our humble selves and thank the unknown powers above that we have a life to live (with our own unique gifts) in the first place.

I can't really say much about femininity (because I don't know), but I don't really compare 'prettiness', if you're pretty, you're pretty. She is 'super model pretty', but other women are beautiful in their own, different way.

I've seen some very pretty MTFs, here and elsewhere. I honestly don't think they're any less than cis woman. I can name more than a few here, but I won't, but maybe it's just my eyes.

Yeah, I didn't watch the full clip, just the beginning. So if there was another message I missed, I'm sorry. Beauty is so subjective. She's obviously conventionally pretty. To some people, she may be the bees knees. But not really to my personal taste. I don't see her as any better looking than Abby or some of the other girls here.

MbutF is right - there's a point of prettiness most people can agree on. But beyond that, it's all personal taste. For instance, I personally find dark brunettes the most beautiful. Others may think differently.

Ya know t's funny but I've noticed the opposite of what most here have seen about being pretty.  Rather than getting more sympathy, I get more confrontation and jealousy.  I feel like now that some people know what I look like and feel that I am pretty (I'm not at all but some people do think that) that all of a sudden I have no reason to talk.  I have no struggles in life.  I have no mental problems or anything.  By virtue of my looks alone, life should be a breeze and simple and that I have no right to talk about the negatives.  I've seen enough of that and it makes me regret ever showing my face.  Looks alone don't define how easy someones life is or whether they have a right to struggle.  I'm sick of the reverse judgement as well.  The fact is I'll never feel pretty or believe that I have self worth in any sense regarldess of what anyone else tells me.  I am trying to fix that, but it doesn't mean I am just whiny or that problems don't exist in life. 

Physical beauty for me is of the UTMOST important and the BASE of my transition. Without beauty you're nothing as a ->-bleeped-<- to what I've seen. People already have no respect for transsexuals and now a not attractive one...unless she can prove herself and be accepted in other professional and academic fields.

And I honestly prefer to look like a bombshell unpassable ->-bleeped-<- than an ugly/ordinary looking genetic woman.

And please spare me that sh*tty quote of 'Beauty is internal' of dunno what crap. It's obviously a beautifully painted HYPOCRISY.

BEAUTY BRINGS RESPECT.

Quote from: learningtolive on April 12, 2014, 01:38:17 PM
Ya know t's funny but I've noticed the opposite of what most here have seen about being pretty.  Rather than getting more sympathy, I get more confrontation and jealousy.  I feel like now that some people know what I look like and feel that I am pretty (I'm not at all but some people do think that) that all of a sudden I have no reason to talk.  I have no struggles in life.  I have no mental problems or anything.  By virtue of my looks alone, life should be a breeze and simple and that I have no right to talk about the negatives.  I've seen enough of that and it makes me regret ever showing my face.  Looks alone don't define how easy someones life is or whether they have a right to struggle.  I'm sick of the reverse judgement as well.  The fact is I'll never feel pretty or believe that I have self worth in any sense regarldess of what anyone else tells me.  I am trying to fix that, but it doesn't mean I am just whiny or that problems don't exist in life.

I find:

Those who are gorgeous and reveal themselves in photo's will get ignored in short time "She's just showing off..."
  * The truth is, if you are gorgeous, you won't be continually coming here for validation anyway. I've seen a few drive-by's already.
Those who are 'pretty' and post their photo's will get exasperating comments of support, with some appreciable jealousy.
Those who 'pass' and post their photo's will get reassurances that they are on the right path and garner a bit more reciprocity. If you 'pass' you just made the threshold, and may see more attention from either side of the blurred line.
Those who 'don't pass' will get the most attention and reciprocity--because they are now in the majority--there's much more rapport, familiarity and dialogue at this level.

The cliques define themselves.

Quote from: Evolving Beauty on April 12, 2014, 01:41:44 PM
Physical beauty for me is of the UTMOST important and the BASE of my transition. Without beauty you're nothing as a ->-bleeped-<- to what I've seen. People already have no respect for transsexuals and now a not attractive one...unless she can prove herself and be accepted in other professional and academic fields.

And I honestly prefer to look like a bombshell unpassable ->-bleeped-<- than an ugly/ordinary looking genetic woman.

And please spare me that sh*tty quote of 'Beauty is internal' of dunno what crap. It's obviously a beautifully painted HYPOCRISY.

BEAUTY BRINGS RESPECT.

Two snaps! Hear Hear!

As in my own observation, I started to pursue beauty after giving in to the inevitability of transition. But this beauty wasn't expression of mainstream standards but it was expressed in the innateness of feminine character.
I wanted to exude as much of inner light as I observed natal woman glow with feminine spark.
I was able to get to such reality despite the impossible, but once I had arrived there, the want to be beautiful not only within but as well without overwhelmed my senses.
I too pursued the beauty of flesh. Well, I don't know when such pursuit will exhaust its energy or when I will truly look at my self and be comforted by the reflected image. But I too know, that this illusion of beauty is innate to naturally born women.

Quote from: Evolving Beauty on April 12, 2014, 01:41:44 PM
Physical beauty for me is of the UTMOST important and the BASE of my transition. Without beauty you're nothing as a ->-bleeped-<- to what I've seen. People already have no respect for transsexuals and now a not attractive one...unless she can prove herself and be accepted in other professional and academic fields.

And I honestly prefer to look like a bombshell unpassable ->-bleeped-<- than an ugly/ordinary looking genetic woman.

And please spare me that sh*tty quote of 'Beauty is internal' of dunno what crap. It's obviously a beautifully painted HYPOCRISY.

BEAUTY BRINGS RESPECT.

I agree with everything you said. I'd be lying if I said I agree with the 'beauty is internal' thing that others want me to accept. Right now, I'm saying it too, looks is of utmost importance to me too...

It's just a question of how beautiful you want to be, even people celebrated for their looks will tell you they don't like something about themselves, even though we think they're perfect. Everybody sees flaws in themselves, that others may not see. 

Quote from: FA on April 12, 2014, 01:37:47 PM
MbutF is right - there's a point of prettiness most people can agree on. But beyond that, it's all personal taste. For instance, I personally find dark brunettes the most beautiful. Others may think differently.

This is what i wanted to say...... :)

Quote from: Evolving Beauty on April 12, 2014, 01:41:44 PM
Physical beauty for me is of the UTMOST important and the BASE of my transition. Without beauty you're nothing as a ->-bleeped-<- to what I've seen. People already have no respect for transsexuals and now a not attractive one...unless she can prove herself and be accepted in other professional and academic fields.

And I honestly prefer to look like a bombshell unpassable ->-bleeped-<- than an ugly/ordinary looking genetic woman.

And please spare me that sh*tty quote of 'Beauty is internal' of dunno what crap. It's obviously a beautifully painted HYPOCRISY.

BEAUTY BRINGS RESPECT.

Sorry but I disagree with the "Beauty Brings Respect" idea. People who place such an extreme emphasis on dolling themselves up to the Nth degree are in desperate need for attention and that is the truth. It doesn't bring "respect". Honestly, anyone that believes in an idea such as this is living within a VERY short-sighted worldview. Unless you have a ton of money for plastic surgery, your "beauty" will fade. Not to mention the fact that in the meantime, you WILL suffer scorn and ridicule from other women because they will see you as something else. No matter if you are trans, cis, etc. It makes no difference. You will be painted with a broad brush by some people such as "Oh look at her, she thinks that she's soooo hot. Such a 'God's gift to women/the world/whatever'". I've seen it with my own eyes many times just from observing other people. Myself, I am very plain, very boring and I like it that way. I rarely get bothered by anyone (except for teen girls who seem to think I am one of them...which is EXTREMELY funny since I am in my latter 30s). I tend to just fade into the scenery most of the time. It works for me.

I see no need to doll myself up if I don't feel a genuine need to do so. For I to do that, it would be completely and utterly fake. It would also be no better than when I was living in the closet prior to my transition. Honestly, the ONLY thing that has changed between then and now is that I don't wear shirts of metal/punk/noise bands. It makes no difference now if I am wearing a solid colored women's top or back in the day if I were wearing a Discharge shirt. I am who I am and that is it.

I tried all of that make up rubbish and it turned out to an expensive waste of time that did nothing but eat up my money. Besides, all of that stuff is HORRIBLE for your skin, nails, etc. I've seen the effects of that stuff on the women that I know and it ages them a lot. I also get a fair amount of compliments from the women that know me on my skin and I tell them all the same thing: All I did was drink plenty of water, stayed away from make up and I never did the sun-bathing/tanning booth thing.

You don't need to buy into all of these goofy myths about beauty.

As far as the "->-bleeped-<-" label goes, I do not apply that label to myself. I see it as insulting and demeaning. Am I a transperson? Of course. But a "->-bleeped-<-"? Nope. No way.

Quote from: FA on April 12, 2014, 09:07:37 AM
Well, I wonder if part of it is that you've been around here awhile, having multiple names and accounts. And so when you come in under a new name, we don't know until you post a pic. And then we're like 'oh it's 'fiercegirl'!' I for one, liked you long before I ever saw your pic (I don't tend to look in the picture threads). You have a very distinct personality. So, I doubt looks is why people like you here. Though of course, you're right. Pretty people are treated better.

Part of it may also be age on here. More leeway tends to be given and a lot of members may have daughters your age.

Well yeah, I get that there's those other factors too, but I'm not gonna lie to myself, the major difference is absolutely about whether or not people know what i look like. Personality helps because it can also modify the mental image people get of me, but beyond that.... idk. It's not like I expect it to be different but it still surprises me every time.

Thanks though. I'd actually rather be liked for who I am if I thought that I could. :)

Quote from: ♡ Emily ♡ on April 12, 2014, 09:20:13 AM
Sad Panda is fiercegirl???? And I was recently thinking where did she go and what happened to her!

Girl you look fierce, but yep.... that's me lol. Trying to maintain a significantly less visual presence this time. Well, I don't know how to present as a boy anyway so.

Quote from: Evolving Beauty on April 12, 2014, 01:41:44 PM
Physical beauty for me is of the UTMOST important and the BASE of my transition. Without beauty you're nothing as a ->-bleeped-<- to what I've seen. People already have no respect for transsexuals and now a not attractive one...unless she can prove herself and be accepted in other professional and academic fields.

And I honestly prefer to look like a bombshell unpassable ->-bleeped-<- than an ugly/ordinary looking genetic woman.

And please spare me that sh*tty quote of 'Beauty is internal' of dunno what crap. It's obviously a beautifully painted HYPOCRISY.

BEAUTY BRINGS RESPECT.

Without doubt, I'd prefer to be an ordinary looking genetic woman than a bombshell unpassable "->-bleeped-<-". Many cis-super models look exceptionally ordinary without the war paint and rags. And this is the thing. Place a very attractive ts into a crowd of cis-women and they suddenly become very ordinary indeed. The trans and cis scales of beauty we are judged by are leagues apart.

Quote from: Nicolette on April 12, 2014, 06:09:50 PM
Without doubt, I'd prefer to be an ordinary looking genetic woman than a bombshell unpassable "->-bleeped-<-". Many cis-super models look exceptionally ordinary without the war paint and rags. And this is the thing. Place a very attractive ts into a crowd of cis-women and they suddenly become very ordinary indeed. The trans and cis scales of beauty we are judged by are leagues apart.

Not entirely true. It's a bit rare, but some transgirls look naturally feminine and so they have a good headstart in front of other transgirls to the point of looking attractive and cis without makeup, thereby giving them the same starting point as other bio-femmes to look like models when all gussied up. I've seen some transgirls who look more attractive than 90% of the cis women in the world.

Quote from: Nicolette on April 12, 2014, 06:09:50 PM
Without doubt, I'd prefer to be an ordinary looking genetic woman than a bombshell unpassable "->-bleeped-<-". Many cis-super models look exceptionally ordinary without the war paint and rags. And this is the thing. Place a very attractive ts into a crowd of cis-women and they suddenly become very ordinary indeed. The trans and cis scales of beauty we are judged by are leagues apart.

This is what I'm shooting for. Just an ordinary average looking woman who blends into the crowd without a second thought from anybody. I've alot of female friends both cis and trans, and those of them that are exceptionally pretty attract alot of unwanted attention. Now don't get me wrong I do pride myself in my looks and want to look nice, but I'm just shooting for the semi-pretty but plain looking girl next door look. Even as I look now I still get unwanted attention in places such as our local boat ramp and Wal-Marts/grocery stores. I'm polite about it though and say thank you, but I have it handled, etc., or something along those lines depending on the situation. :icon_flower:

I'd like to say one last thing: referring to we, your fellow sisters and even yourself as "->-bleeped-<-'s" is a bit degrading to me.

Quote from: Chic on April 12, 2014, 08:12:20 PM
Not entirely true. It's a bit rare, but some transgirls look naturally feminine and so they have a good headstart in front of other transgirls to the point of looking attractive and cis without makeup, thereby giving them the same starting point as other bio-femmes to look like models when all gussied up. I've seen some transgirls who look more attractive than 90% of the cis women in the world.

That is very true, chic. I'm glad I'm not alone. :) I think some transgirls are way too hard on themselves, even though they're beautiful. I swear it, transgirls can be as attractive as any cis girl.. There are a lot of them too.

Quote from: MbutF on April 12, 2014, 09:17:39 PM

Quote from: Chic on April 12, 2014, 08:12:20 PM
Not entirely true. It's a bit rare, but some transgirls look naturally feminine and so they have a good headstart in front of other transgirls to the point of looking attractive and cis without makeup, thereby giving them the same starting point as other bio-femmes to look like models when all gussied up. I've seen some transgirls who look more attractive than 90% of the cis women in the world.

That is very true, chic. I'm glad I'm not alone. :) I think some transgirls are way too hard on themselves, even though they're beautiful. I swear it, transgirls can be as attractive as any cis girl.. There are a lot of them too.

Yep. Cis women certainly don't have a monopoly on beauty.

Anyway, it sucks we live in society where women are so judged on the outside. It's a detriment to all women, cis and trans, beautiful and less so. Every last woman in this thread should know she is beautiful no matter her outsides.

Quote from: Nicolette on April 12, 2014, 06:09:50 PM
Without doubt, I'd prefer to be an ordinary looking genetic woman than a bombshell unpassable "->-bleeped-<-". Many cis-super models look exceptionally ordinary without the war paint and rags. And this is the thing.

This is very true,  :) It's amazing how often we forget this, and think that's how super models look all the time.

I'm not saying super models aren't beautiful naturally, though, no.

QuotePlace a very attractive ts into a crowd of cis-women and they suddenly become very ordinary indeed.

I agree  :)

Quote from: FA on April 12, 2014, 09:22:07 PM
That is very true, chic. I'm glad I'm not alone. :) I think some transgirls are way too hard on themselves, even though they're beautiful. I swear it, transgirls can be as attractive as any cis girl.. There are a lot of them too.


Yep. Cis women certainly don't have a monopoly on beauty.

Anyway, it sucks we live in society where women are so judged on the outside. It's a detriment to all women, cis and trans, beautiful and less so. Every last woman in this thread should know she is beautiful no matter her outsides.

thank you very much for the kind words.

Quote from: FA on April 12, 2014, 09:22:07 PM
Every last woman in this thread should know she is beautiful no matter her outsides.

As if!

Why do you think I post an avatar of my fictional anthro teenage genetic female counterpart?

I honestly think aesthetically speaking the prettiest transgirls and feminine androgynes are the most beauitiful creatures on earth. I've seen some stunning ones on this site (rarer, but they're here), real life, YouTube, fashion magazines and cisgirls just pale in comparison, they're so bland anddull compared to that kind of unique, almost futuristic, beauty. That's one area where I don't have internalized transphobia.

But then I suppose it's partly cuz I'm attracted to men, so I can appreciate the beauty purely aesthetically without sexual attraction coming into play. Maybe some users have these feelings because of their internalized homophobia clashing with their sexuality.

There is ZERO reason an MtF can't be prettier than most cisgirls. Truth be told? I'm hotter than most basic biatches in my town. I live in the South so that plays a role. But yeah, I have a not bad face, I'm good at makeup when I give an effort, I try to dress well, I got a nicely proportioned body, not bad tits. And honestly, im just getting started, im not anywhere neaar finished. I have tons of insecurities and some days I feelsoo not pretty and I wana die (like today), but most of the time that's one thing I've got.

For everything I said I didn't say anything as bad as what that implies, really. I may have come off as arrogant but that's plain ignorant. Y'all can be as beautiful as you're gonna be.if you're not, luck of the draw, too bad. But simply having T slapped on you doesn't mean you can't be beautiful, or exceptionally beaitiful, or surpass ciswomen, cuz that's so not true.

Yes, I'm arrogant, and no im not perfect, inside OR out. I am as source designed me no more, no less. I had a long day (stupidd birthday) and I'm in a no BS mood, so I'm mildly lucid right now, which is rare these days tbh. And honestly? Miranda Kerr is ehh. Amazing body obvs anyone would be jealous, but kinda ehh face. Opinion is a funny thing.

EDIT:

Chic,

I have to say this to you too babydoll, I haven't seen many pics but you aare beautiful from what I've seen. Let that grow into something fabulous that resonates inside AND out. Don't let the naysers on here get you down and think you're less than, but careful not to turn out a vain, empty, arrogant vapid youth, beauty obsessed whiny b-ch like me. But you won't, I can tell, for sure!

Quote from: Abbyxo on April 12, 2014, 09:48:21 PM
I honestly think aesthetically speaking the prettiest transgirls and feminine androgynes are the most beauitiful creatures on earth. I've seen some stunning ones on this site (rarer, but they're here), real life, YouTube, fashion magazines and cisgirls just pale in comparison, they're so bland anddull compared to that kind of unique, almost futuristic, beauty. That's one area where I don't have internalized transphobia.

But then I suppose it's partly cuz I'm attracted to men, so I can appreciate the beauty purely aesthetically without sexual attraction coming into play. Maybe some users have these feelings because of their internalized homophobia clashing with their sexuality.

There is ZERO reason an MtF can't be prettier than most cisgirls. Truth be told? I'm hotter than most basic biatches in my town. I live in the South so that plays a role. But yeah, I have a not bad face, I'm good at makeup when I give an effort, I try to dress well, I got a nicely proportioned body, not bad tits. And honestly, im just getting started, im not anywhere neaar finished. I have tons of insecurities and some days I feelsoo not pretty and I wana die (like today), but most of the time that's one thing I've got.

For everything I said I didn't say anything as bad as what that implies, really. I may have come off as arrogant but that's plain ignorant. Y'all can be as beautiful as you're gonna be.if you're not, luck of the draw, too bad. But simply having T slapped on you doesn't mean you can't be beautiful, or exceptionally beaitiful, or surpass ciswomen, cuz that's so not true.

Yes, I'm arrogant, and no im not perfect, inside OR out. I am as source designed me no more, no less. I had a long day (stupidd birthday) and I'm in a no BS mood, so I'm mildly lucid right now, which is rare these days tbh. And honestly? Miranda Kerr is ehh. Amazing body, kinda ehh face. Taste is a funny thing.

I wouldn't worry about being bold. You need to support your self too.

Quote from: Abbyxo on April 12, 2014, 09:48:21 PM
I honestly think aesthetically speaking the prettiest transgirls and feminine androgynes are the most beauitiful creatures on earth. I've seen some stunning ones on this site (rarer, but they're here), real life, YouTube, fashion magazines and cisgirls just pale in comparison, they're so bland anddull compared to that kind of unique, almost futuristic, beauty. That's one area where I don't have internalized transphobia.

But then I suppose it's partly cuz I'm attracted to men, so I can appreciate the beauty purely aesthetically without sexual attraction coming into play. Maybe some users have these feelings because of their internalized homophobia clashing with their sexuality.

There is ZERO reason an MtF can't be prettier than most cisgirls. Truth be told? I'm hotter than most basic biatches in my town. I live in the South so that plays a role. But yeah, I have a not bad face, I'm good at makeup when I give an effort, I try to dress well, I got a nicely proportioned body, not bad tits. And honestly, im just getting started, im not anywhere neaar finished. I have tons of insecurities and some days I feelsoo not pretty and I wana die (like today), but most of the time that's one thing I've got.

For everything I said I didn't say anything as bad as what that implies, really. I may have come off as arrogant but that's plain ignorant. Y'all can be as beautiful as you're gonna be.if you're not, luck of the draw, too bad. But simply having T slapped on you doesn't mean you can't be beautiful, or exceptionally beaitiful, or surpass ciswomen, cuz that's so not true.

Yes, I'm arrogant, and no im not perfect, inside OR out. I am as source designed me no more, no less. I had a long day (stupidd birthday) and I'm in a no BS mood, so I'm mildly lucid right now, which is rare these days tbh. And honestly? Miranda Kerr is ehh. Amazing body obvs anyone would be jealous, but kinda ehh face. Opinion is a funny thing.

EDIT:

Chic,

I have to say this to you too babydoll, I haven't seen many pics but you aare beautiful from what I've seen. Let that grow into something fabulous that resonates inside AND out. Don't let the naysers on here get you down and think you're less than, but careful not to turn out a vain, empty, arrogant vapid youth, beauty obsessed whiny b-ch like me. But you won't, I can tell, for sure!

...

... and Happy Birthday Abby!

Quote from: Abbyxo on April 12, 2014, 09:48:21 PM
I honestly think aesthetically speaking the prettiest transgirls and feminine androgynes are the most beauitiful creatures on earth. I've seen some stunning ones on this site (rarer, but they're here), real life, YouTube, fashion magazines and cisgirls just pale in comparison, they're so bland anddull compared to that kind of unique, almost futuristic, beauty. That's one area where I don't have internalized transphobia.

But then I suppose it's partly cuz I'm attracted to men, so I can appreciate the beauty purely aesthetically without sexual attraction coming into play. Maybe some users have these feelings because of their internalized homophobia clashing with their sexuality.

There is ZERO reason an MtF can't be prettier than most cisgirls. Truth be told? I'm hotter than most basic biatches in my town. I live in the South so that plays a role. But yeah, I have a not bad face, I'm good at makeup when I give an effort, I try to dress well, I got a nicely proportioned body, not bad tits. And honestly, im just getting started, im not anywhere neaar finished. I have tons of insecurities and some days I feelsoo not pretty and I wana die (like today), but most of the time that's one thing I've got.

For everything I said I didn't say anything as bad as what that implies, really. I may have come off as arrogant but that's plain ignorant. Y'all can be as beautiful as you're gonna be.if you're not, luck of the draw, too bad. But simply having T slapped on you doesn't mean you can't be beautiful, or exceptionally beaitiful, or surpass ciswomen, cuz that's so not true.

Yes, I'm arrogant, and no im not perfect, inside OR out. I am as source designed me no more, no less. I had a long day (stupidd birthday) and I'm in a no BS mood, so I'm mildly lucid right now, which is rare these days tbh. And honestly? Miranda Kerr is ehh. Amazing body obvs anyone would be jealous, but kinda ehh face. Opinion is a funny thing.

EDIT:

Chic,

I have to say this to you too babydoll, I haven't seen many pics but you aare beautiful from what I've seen. Let that grow into something fabulous that resonates inside AND out. Don't let the naysers on here get you down and think you're less than, but careful not to turn out a vain, empty, arrogant vapid youth, beauty obsessed whiny b-ch like me. But you won't, I can tell, for sure!

In no way are you any of the things you claim yourself to be. I see a lot of similarities between us, you're just more mature. Confidence is often mistaken for arrogance, and honestly, for what many T girls must suffer through on a daily basis such as dysphoria, transphobia, financial troubles (depending on the person) and other copious and unrelenting obstacles, the right to be arrogant is well deserved and thus rewarded. T girls are very often misunderstood and therefore stereotyped as being ugly or unattractive, so to not only pass but be physically beautiful in the process is something that those who are fortunate enough to have great and feminine genetic makeup and/or the luck that HRT will work extreme wonders should proudly reap the benefits of. If Carmen Carrera or Laverne Cox didn't look as stunning as they do, would they really be on TV giving interviews and partly representing the trans* community? You don't see many people who don't pass standing up there with an Access Hollywood interviewer giving a commentary on transpeople and spilling out a condensed autobiography on the air. While a bit sad, in all honesty the media and who it covers has never been anything more than superficial and biased, and it shouldn't really be taken personally for that very reason. Point is, usually only the most gorgeous t women are the famous ones, as with cis women...so why not flaunt what you have if you're beautiful? Don't feel bad about saying it, you have the right to. You in particular are model status and very fortunate. I hope to be the same as you in that aspect someday...a model by cis standards.

Here's more pics of me, since you haven't seen many. I'd actually like to know your opinion because you're gorgeous, and based on how you looked pre-transition, you might be able to take a guess on if I'll look beautiful or not after transition. I'm pre-everything: http://Instagram.com/setsukaheel

And Happy Birthday! <3

Quote from: Chic on April 12, 2014, 10:42:31 PM
In no way are you any of the things you claim yourself to be. I see a lot of similarities between us, you're just more mature. Confidence is often mistaken for arrogance, and honestly, for what many T girls must suffer through on a daily basis such as dysphoria, transphobia, financial troubles (depending on the person) and other copious and unrelenting obstacles, the right to be arrogant is well deserved and thus rewarded. T girls are very often misunderstood and therefore stereotyped as being ugly or unattractive, so to not only pass but be physically beautiful in the process is something that those who are fortunate enough to have great and feminine genetic makeup and/or the luck that HRT will work extreme wonders should proudly reap the benefits of. If Carmen Carrera or Laverne Cox didn't look as stunning as they do, would they really be on TV giving interviews and partly representing the trans* community? You don't see many people who don't pass standing up there with an Access Hollywood interviewer giving a commentary on transpeople and spilling out a condensed autobiography on the air. While a bit sad, in all honesty the media and who it covers has never been anything more than superficial and biased, and it shouldn't really be taken personally for that very reason. Point is, usually only the most gorgeous t women are the famous ones, as with cis women...so why not flaunt what you have if you're beautiful? Don't feel bad about saying it, you have the right to. You in particular are model status and very fortunate. I hope to be the same as you in that aspect someday...a model by cis standards.

Here's more pics of me, since you haven't seen many. I'd actually like to know your opinion because you're gorgeous, and based on how you looked pre-transition, you might be able to take a guess on if I'll look beautiful or not after transition. I'm pre-everything: http://Instagram.com/setsukaheel

And Happy Birthday! <3

Noo, don't say that, you don't want to be like me, trust me. You're very sweet but I have a lot of problems, and the best thing I can do is tell you not to look up to me as a role model. For some reason I randomly feel big sisterly toward you and I think you should be soo so careful in transition cuz lots of things can happen. People are gonna bring you down, they're gonna make you trust them and betray you and aall of that is bad, but please don't let yourself get lost along the way or in bad stuff. There's better ways okay? I'm being vague but ima bit tipsy (but not drunk so I know what I'm saying still)..

As for your looks, soo beautiful, grrl. Hrt is gonna be amazing for you! I can't compare to me cuz we have very different looks and I haven't seen your 'boy mode' to compare to mine but I have zero doubt you're going to be just beautiful, cuz you look amazing in those pics. You remind me of this girl from my home town, she was gorgeous and you look juust like her in one of your pics.

Quote from: Abbyxo on April 12, 2014, 09:48:21 PM
I honestly think aesthetically speaking the prettiest transgirls and feminine androgynes are the most beauitiful creatures on earth. I've seen some stunning ones on this site (rarer, but they're here), real life, YouTube, fashion magazines and cisgirls just pale in comparison, they're so bland anddull compared to that kind of unique, almost futuristic, beauty. That's one area where I don't have internalized transphobia.

Very well said,   :) I agree with you said, I'd say transgirls and androgynes are the most beautiful, that's just how I see. There's just something about them...... I went through a phase where I had this internalized transphobia for sure, but it's gone now.

There are stunning ones on this site, wow! How can people who use this site so often say something like 'Transgirls can't compete with cisgirls', the proof is right here... I've seen it, and I'm convinced :)

QuoteFor everything I said I didn't say anything as bad as what that implies, really. I may have come off as arrogant but that's plain ignorant. Y'all can be as beautiful as you're gonna be.if you're not, luck of the draw, too bad. But simply having T slapped on you doesn't mean you can't be beautiful, or exceptionally beaitiful, or surpass ciswomen, cuz that's so not true.

You don't come off as arrogant to me, you just come off as a real, honest person who speaks her mind.. always..

QuoteYes, I'm arrogant, and no im not perfect, inside OR out.

Nobody is perfect. :)

Quote from: Abbyxo on April 13, 2014, 12:01:05 AM
Noo, don't say that, you don't want to be like me, trust me. You're very sweet but I have a lot of problems, and the best thing I can do is tell you not to look up to me as a role model. For some reason I randomly feel big sisterly toward you and I think you should be soo so careful in transition cuz lots of things can happen. People are gonna bring you down, they're gonna make you trust them and betray you and aall of that is bad, but please don't let yourself get lost along the way or in bad stuff. There's better ways okay? I'm being vague but ima bit tipsy (but not drunk so I know what I'm saying still)..

As for your looks, soo beautiful, grrl. Hrt is gonna be amazing for you! I can't compare to me cuz we have very different looks and I haven't seen your 'boy mode' to compare to mine but I have zero doubt you're going to be just beautiful, cuz you look amazing in those pics. You remind me of this girl from my home town, she was gorgeous and you look juust like her in one of your pics.

Thank you! I've been through so many horrible experiences in my life that I'm hoping I have the skills equipped to deal with whatever comes my way. I don't think there's any reason not to look up to you, because I've suffered from serious depression occasionally for years and I doubt our reasons could be much different. I've always had self-doubt and always saw myself as arrogant when in reality I can be quite insecure. I feel to you as a little sister would a big sister, haha :P

Boymode:

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FEbBnjXn.jpg&hash=f9230ee14ebafb05249716981c84264270215ad5)


Girlmode for immediate comparison:

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FL0KkvDx.jpg&hash=5da7a5d71dfcf582e0d08413b2ad7c32bb91e632)

@chic, yeah I think being a girl suits you so much more. You are gonna be really pretty!

Off topic, but did anyone notice they were less and less able to see themselves as pretty over time on HRT? I actually realized that's why i never post pics online much anymore, at some point i stopped being able to find pics i like of me, I feel ugly almost all the time ever since hrt worked a bit. Is it cuz I find masculinity attractive and maybe I'm like an autoandrophile? Hah. Guess it's just hard to judge yourself though.

Quote from: Chic on April 13, 2014, 12:41:09 AM

Boymode:

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FEbBnjXn.jpg&hash=f9230ee14ebafb05249716981c84264270215ad5)

Soft baby faces turn out the best. Wow your youth + HRT is going to do you wonders.

Are you part asian?

Quote from: Evelyn K on April 13, 2014, 01:17:10 AM
Soft baby faces turn out the best. Wow your youth + HRT is going to do you wonders.

Are you part asian?

Thank you!

I'm not Asian at all, I'm primarily Italian with a good amount of Irish and Scottish :) People tell me that I look like I have a bit of Asian in me all the time

Quote from: Laura Squirrel on April 12, 2014, 03:49:36 PM
I tried all of that make up rubbish and it turned out to an expensive waste of time that did nothing but eat up my money. Besides, all of that stuff is HORRIBLE for your skin, nails, etc. I've seen the effects of that stuff on the women that I know and it ages them a lot. I also get a fair amount of compliments from the women that know me on my skin and I tell them all the same thing: All I did was drink plenty of water, stayed away from make up and I never did the sun-bathing/tanning booth thing.

Makeup is not bad for you, as long as you don't sleep in it and remove it properly. It can actually do good to your skin as many foundations these days contain additional SPF or moisturisation. and makeup makes HUGE difference, it's amazing

Yep no harm in good quality makeup!

Quote from: sad panda on April 13, 2014, 12:50:12 AM
@chic, yeah I think being a girl suits you so much more. You are gonna be really pretty!

Off topic, but did anyone notice they were less and less able to see themselves as pretty over time on HRT? I actually realized that's why i never post pics online much anymore, at some point i stopped being able to find pics i like of me, I feel ugly almost all the time ever since hrt worked a bit. Is it cuz I find masculinity attractive and maybe I'm like an autoandrophile? Hah. Guess it's just hard to judge yourself though.

I don't think it's that at all. We see ourselves in the mirror every day. Because we do this and the changes hrt makes happen so slowly we don't notice them. I've just recently ran into people who know I'm trans, but haven't seen me in 2 or three months (this also happened with a person I saw just 1 month ago) and even I couldn't believe the attention and compliments I got at first. 7 of them actually didn't even recognize me at first. And now even at my Doctors offices there's no more "Mr" before my name when I'm called to be seen, only "Ms." despite what it says on a piece of paper. And the one girl that did make a mistake honestly because she'd just started her shift and hadn't seen me yet, couldn't stop apologizing. All without me saying a word.

I pass on the street and in shopping centers/stores all the time and have for the last 5 years however at my Doctors offices (excluding my Endo -there I've been gendered correctly from day one) I was always called Mr. because of what it said on a piece of paper and the fact at my PC and Pain Management Dr's offices I used to dress in very baggy clothes (I only did this because of their staff rotation). Also they rotate their office staff between offices. So they weren't sure despite my feminine looks what I was and went by what it said on paper. However, now that there's no hiding I'm female/trans mainly because of my boobs and obvious thicker fuller hair and disappearing thinning areas, combined with slight facial changes and the fact it's springtime in Florida and I'm over 3 months in on hrt which my Doctors themselves know about I dressed as I normally do every day this time around.

My point is, because we see ourselves in the mirror every day we hardly notice the changes for the better hrt is making to our face hair and bodies. However other people who don't see us every day notice these changes bigtime. This is why I believe we are our own worse critics. If you want an accurate assessment, go see a friend you trust who  hasn't seen you in 3 months or so. Oh you won't need to ask them anything. They're reaction and the look on their face when they realize it's you will be all the proof you need the "mones" are working their magic. :icon_bunch:

Oh and I agree with CrowCrow223, good quality makeup is your friend.

Ally :icon_flower:

Allyda, very good point but I think sadpanda meant sth else.

Hormones change our perception of ourselves. Example: If You showed me a photograph of me now think April 2014, when I was preHRT, think May 2009, I'd be jumping, screaming, I'd be over the moon. Seriously. But now, I can't stand the reflection in the mirror, I hate what I see, and it consumes 98% of my thoughts, I literally count down seconds until the moment when I will have a perspective of getting plastic surgeries.

My point is: HRT makes us more mature, as well as more I'd say harsh on ourselves, which can be seen as both good and bad, and also we become perfectionists.

Quote from: crowcrow223 on April 13, 2014, 06:03:53 AM
Allyda, very good point but I think sadpanda meant sth else.

Hormones change our perception of ourselves. Example: If You showed me a photograph of me now think April 2014, when I was preHRT, think May 2009, I'd be jumping, screaming, I'd be over the moon. Seriously. But now, I can't stand the reflection in the mirror, I hate what I see, and it consumes 98% of my thoughts, I literally count down seconds until the moment when I will have a perspective of getting plastic surgeries.

My point is: HRT makes us more mature, as well as more I'd say harsh on ourselves, which can be seen as both good and bad, and also we become perfectionists.

I think I see yours and Sad Panda's point. You are focusing more around our individual perceptions of ourselves rather than what other people see. On that I agree 100%. Though I'm constantly told by my friends and others I'm being too critical of myself when I bring up these points, but I feel my eyebrows are too close to my eyes so I need a facelift, my neck is losing elasticity so a necklift is in order as well, and in addition I still have these scars on the left side of my face just before and below my left ear so these need addressed, and above all and why I now see your point, because I passed easily before starting hrt none of this bothered me nearly as much as it does now. Sorry I missed it the first time Sad Panda, CrowCrow223. :icon_bunch:

I think I pass better post-HRT, but my face particularly was prettier in pictures before. My facial structure before was more angular and striking. Now it's more oval and there's more fat on my cheeks.

I wonder how much more impact it would have to wait until a year into hormones to look at oneself in a mirror again for the first time since starting transition. Would it be a more noticeable difference, or would you still be used to the way you look from before? Is that something you can just simply forget over time?

Perhaps this could be something practiced by people who are afraid of not seeing any difference after a while on hormones.

Quote from: mandonlym on April 13, 2014, 07:38:03 AM
I think I pass better post-HRT, but my face particularly was prettier in pictures before. My facial structure before was more angular and striking. Now it's more oval and there's more fat on my cheeks.

Having an angular face though a small feminine oval one is one of my big problems now. I'm hoping mine fills out more over time. A little fat on my cheeks is what I'm hoping for.

Quote from: Chic on April 13, 2014, 11:46:52 AM
I wonder how much more impact it would have to wait until a year into hormones to look at oneself in a mirror again for the first time since starting transition. Would it be a more noticeable difference, or would you still be used to the way you look from before? Is that something you can just simply forget over time?

Perhaps this could be something practiced by people who are afraid of not seeing any difference after a while on hormones.

OMG, that would be akin to cruel and unusual punishment if that happened to me. No mirrors!!! Oh no. Can I has camera at least? Srsly though, it is a great idea if one could accomplish it but given the obsessive nature of transition, I'm doubting less than one of one percent would be able to do it. I have a mirror right nest to where I am right now...I am very, very vain.

I know I answered this question but here's something I have never said, or maybe I have, idk: if I didn't know before taking hormones that i would pass 100 percent and that I would be somewhat or something close to pretty, I would not have transitioned. Period. I knew that I would pass and eventually become pretty with just hormoes alone and that's what makes me so mad is that I should have done this in 2007 when I was 24. But, no I had to waste five years  trying to get my ex back and convince her that I'm a man. The thing is in 2007 I had the money to do everything and start over somewhere else and wouldn't need my nose fixed or laser resurfacing from the T I took to be a man. Hell, I didn't even have facial hair then. arghhhhh

And the really ironic part: I neither like nor am I attracted to women sexually...WTF! This isn't the hormones I have known this forever.

Quote from: Chic on April 13, 2014, 11:46:52 AM
I wonder how much more impact it would have to wait until a year into hormones to look at oneself in a mirror again for the first time since starting transition. Would it be a more noticeable difference, or would you still be used to the way you look from before? Is that something you can just simply forget over time?

Perhaps this could be something practiced by people who are afraid of not seeing any difference after a while on hormones.

I sorta actually did this, I obsessed over it a lot in my early transition because I was tired of never noticing a dif in how i looked. Even in side to side pics. But once I gave up on hormones ever doing anything for me, like a year on them later, my dose got increased again and within a couple months they were finally doing something. For some reason at that point i stopped caring at all, stopped taking many pics and just let it happen, especially once I got on wellbutrin and sort of became a lump, and 6+ months flew by and suddenly I looked different.

The weird thing was, yeah, i didn't feel prettier. I just sort of felt ugly all the time since then. Even though afaik I just look like a cis girl now. Maybe I feel plain, idk.

Quote from: mandonlym on April 13, 2014, 07:38:03 AM
I think I pass better post-HRT, but my face particularly was prettier in pictures before. My facial structure before was more angular and striking. Now it's more oval and there's more fat on my cheeks.

I could have sworn you where Valentijn de Hingh. You sure look alike.

Quote from: sad panda on April 13, 2014, 05:10:11 PM
I sorta actually did this, I obsessed over it a lot in my early transition because I was tired of never noticing a dif in how i looked. Even in side to side pics. But once I gave up on hormones ever doing anything for me, like a year on them later, my dose got increased again and within a couple months they were finally doing something. For some reason at that point i stopped caring at all, stopped taking many pics and just let it happen, especially once I got on wellbutrin and sort of became a lump, and 6+ months flew by and suddenly I looked different.

The weird thing was, yeah, i didn't feel prettier. I just sort of felt ugly all the time since then. Even though afaik I just look like a cis girl now. Maybe I feel plain, idk.

How can you ensure the hormones work? I don't want to have a year go by and then suddenly I'm like, "derp nothing's happening, better go get the dosage increased". I want the first whole year to be effective.

Quote from: Chic on April 13, 2014, 05:45:59 PM
How can you ensure the hormones work? I don't want to have a year go by and then suddenly I'm like, "derp nothing's happening, better go get the dosage increased". I want the first whole year to be effective.

So many people think that the first year is supposed to be some sort of amazing, massive transformation. Well, it may or may not happen. It all takes a LOT of time and a lot of it depends on your genetics.

You can't decide on the timetable. You have no say in that. That is just the way it is.

Don't be foolish and start screwing around with the doses just because things aren't going the way that you would like. Doing something like that is a bad idea UNLESS your endo thinks it should be done. Otherwise, don't mess with it.

Quote from: Laura Squirrel on April 13, 2014, 05:51:00 PM
So many people think that the first year is supposed to be some sort of amazing, massive transformation. Well, it may or may not happen. It all takes a LOT of time and a lot of it depends on your genetics.

You can't decide on the timetable. You have no say in that. That is just the way it is.

Don't be foolish and start screwing around with the doses just because things aren't going the way that you would like. Doing something like that is a bad idea UNLESS your endo thinks it should be done. Otherwise, don't mess with it.

it's very counter productive to think you know better than a trained doctor

Both important for others and myself. I love making an effort to look nice, and it makes me feel good :)

Quote from: stephaniec on April 13, 2014, 06:24:22 PM
it's very counter productive to think you know better than a trained doctor

Did I imply that I did?

No.

Don't put words in my mouth.

Hi friends  :police:

Stay on topic and let's not be starting arguments

Thank you

V M

Quote from: Laura Squirrel on April 13, 2014, 06:31:03 PM
Did I imply that I did?

No.

Don't put words in my mouth.

You misinterpreted my reference I was referring to the fact that you were telling the poster not to mess with dosages to speed the effects of estrogen I'm sorry if I wasn't clear on the point. I/m also sorry if I'm completely misunderstand the posts. I try my best not to offend any one and I'm truly sorry if it was taken wrong.

Quote from: Chic on April 13, 2014, 05:45:59 PM
How can you ensure the hormones work? I don't want to have a year go by and then suddenly I'm like, "derp nothing's happening, better go get the dosage increased". I want the first whole year to be effective.

HRT effects everyone differently and everyone will have their own results

Follow your doctor's advise

Quote from: Chic on April 13, 2014, 05:45:59 PM
How can you ensure the hormones work? I don't want to have a year go by and then suddenly I'm like, "derp nothing's happening, better go get the dosage increased". I want the first whole year to be effective.

You have to be patient and remember, cis girls take around 10 years to mature WITHOUT fighting "T". Transition is not a sprint, but a marathon. You have to protect your liver by going slowly. HRT is really rough on the internal systems. Just relax and enjoy what does happen, when it happens. :)

Quote from: stephaniec on April 13, 2014, 06:40:12 PM
You misinterpreted my reference I was referring to the fact that you were telling the poster not to mess with dosages to speed the effects of estrogen I'm sorry if I wasn't clear on the point. I/m also sorry if I'm completely misunderstand the posts. I try my best not to offend any one and I'm truly sorry if it was taken wrong.

I said what I said so this person wouldn't make the same mistake that I did a few years ago. I basically dictated the doses to my moronic doctor and the fool went ahead and did what I asked with no bloodwork whatsoever. It REALLY screwed me up. I said what I did in the hopes that this person wouldn't make the same mistake that I did.

Quote from: Laura Squirrel on April 13, 2014, 05:51:00 PM
So many people think that the first year is supposed to be some sort of amazing, massive transformation. Well, it may or may not happen. It all takes a LOT of time and a lot of it depends on your genetics.

You can't decide on the timetable. You have no say in that. That is just the way it is.

Don't be foolish and start screwing around with the doses just because things aren't going the way that you would like. Doing something like that is a bad idea UNLESS your endo thinks it should be done. Otherwise, don't mess with it.

I would never mess with the dosages myself. The thing is, most of the transition timelines I've seen show major or at least noticeable progress within the first year. I've seen ones with upped dosages halfway through, but even before then they were showing differences.

Quote from: Evelyn K on April 13, 2014, 05:20:18 PM
I could have sworn you where Valentijn de Hingh. You sure look alike.

She's cute! Totally flattered. :)

Quote from: Chic on April 13, 2014, 07:02:44 PM
I would never mess with the dosages myself. The thing is, most of the transition timelines I've seen show major or at least noticeable progress within the first year. I've seen ones with upped dosages halfway through, but even before then they were showing differences.

Yeah, but at the end of the day, those timelines don't mean squat. Everyone is different. Don't let that stuff influence you. Just go with the flow and don't worry about it.

Yeah, Chic, I agree with Sad Pana. You fit feminitybso much and will be justt beautiful!

Quote from: Abbyxo on April 13, 2014, 07:32:12 PM
Yeah, Chic, I agree with Sad Pana. You fit feminitybso much and will be justt beautiful!

By the way Abby I forgot to mention that I only like you for your appearance. :p When are you coming to New York???

Quote from: Chic on April 13, 2014, 11:46:52 AM
I wonder how much more impact it would have to wait until a year into hormones to look at oneself in a mirror again for the first time since starting transition. Would it be a more noticeable difference, or would you still be used to the way you look from before? Is that something you can just simply forget over time?

Perhaps this could be something practiced by people who are afraid of not seeing any difference after a while on hormones.

Sure, if you can avoid looking in the mirror for a year, you will see big changes.  However, that's really not practical, unless you want to leave the house looking a total mess.  Believe me, that method has a lot more problems than benefits.

Quote from: Chic on April 13, 2014, 05:45:59 PM
How can you ensure the hormones work? I don't want to have a year go by and then suddenly I'm like, "derp nothing's happening, better go get the dosage increased". I want the first whole year to be effective.

Hormones work gradually, but you will be able to notice they are working.  Unfortunately, it takes time to build up the dosage and find what works for you.  I feel like my first 4 or 5 months on it was a learning game for both my endo and I.  Now, I know what works for me, but again it takes a lot of time and it's frustrating.  Don't be swayed by someone elses time line.  It's a unique thing and you will only get disapointed if you expect similar results as another person.  It really doesn't work like that.  Another thing I should note, is that those transition videos show how the person progresses in all aspects besides hrt as well.  They may look amazing from one photo to the next and it may be something like hair styling and make up rather than hormones which provoked that big change.  Keep that in mind.

Quote from: mandonlym on April 13, 2014, 07:34:30 PM
By the way Abby I forgot to mention that I only like you for your appearance. :p When are you coming to New York???

Hahah, ohh my god, though, I would loove to go to New York. A road trip sounds fantastic right now. I'm sure I'll go one day and you'll have to be my tour guide!

Lets get back on track folks. This is not the sexuality topic. :police:

At my age I realize I never will be. I never can be. I just want/need/must get a lot thinner, mostly for myself, but also because of how people see me

Quote from: KelsieJ on April 13, 2014, 07:47:24 PM
At my age I realize I never will be. I never can be. I just want/need/must get a lot thinner, mostly for myself, but also because of how people see me

You already are beautiful.  And I don't mean that in a "everyone is beautiful" kind of way. 

Thank you Caysee honey, but I'm really not. I'm ok-ish in the face, from the right angle. From the wrong angle, I scream "testosterone"....and from the neck down, I look like a linebacker..... :/

It's something I'm working on though......which is why they call it a transition. EVerything is a work in progress

Quote from: Chic on April 13, 2014, 05:45:59 PM
How can you ensure the hormones work? I don't want to have a year go by and then suddenly I'm like, "derp nothing's happening, better go get the dosage increased". I want the first whole year to be effective.

Well in my case it was pretty ridiculous, I was self medding with a low dose until i could find an endo (since I was full time and didn't want to stay pre hrt) and it took 6 minths until my appointment, then we found out my T was still 700... then it took a long time to find a dose high enough to get my T down. I think it's still about 100 even but yeah I started seeing actual changes when it went from 200 to 100.

So just get frequent bloodwork and nag your endo... but i was a strange case too bc i had really high T. most people don't have that problem and a standard dose works right away.

Quote from: Abbyxo on April 13, 2014, 07:40:23 PM
Hahah, ohh my god, though, I would loove to go to New York. A road trip sounds fantastic right now. I'm sure I'll go one day and you'll have to be my tour guide!

Yay! We can go makeup shopping at Barney's. :) This is a thread about being beautiful after all... anyone else around New York care to join us? Give a holler!

It's very important to me, anyone who knows me knows that. I feel ugly majority of the time and it's one of the main reasons for my sadness.

Quote from: Donna Troy on April 13, 2014, 10:41:30 PM
It's very important to me, anyone who knows me knows that. I feel ugly majority of the time and it's one of the main reasons for my sadness.

You are certainly not ugly :)

But I know that feeling ugly can have nothing to do with how good you look. It's more than that, and it's hard to explain....

QuoteYou are certainly not ugly

I'm not pretty either am i though :(

Quote from: Donna Troy on April 14, 2014, 01:39:43 AM
I'm not pretty either am i though :(

I think you are and so does my wife.

QuoteLadies, how important is it for you to be beautiful?

It is almost, but not quite as important as deciding on something to make for dinner and/or other important daily aspects of life

Quote from: Donna Troy on April 14, 2014, 01:39:43 AM
I'm not pretty either am i though :(

I don't meant to turn it into an interview, but what exactly bothers you?

I've worked on my image to fit my true self better if that makes sense? In doing so I've managed to attain this natural beauty without makeup. Which is just like a basic skin care routine and I make sure I stay constant about my hair care. All of these little factors make a grand difference on how you portray your personal beauty. I love makeup but I don't wear it as much as I'd like to for the simple fact I don't go to formal events at all. If anything I do light makeup and just brings out my best features even more. I don't wear makeup to please other people. I wear it cause I really love makeup, to me it's an art form that takes practice to get good at, like doing any other form of art.

I really want to get into modeling hence my love for makeup and fashion. Which is also another part of your personal beauty. Your style of clothing, can make the biggest difference in the world regarding your self image/self esteem. Nothing like the perfect pair of jeans to give you a confidence boost. Beauty in our society is not just our physical features but our entire presentation.

See this is where cis women are ahead of us though. They've had their entire life to work on their image for themselves. They understand what works for them and what doesn't, what they feel personally comfortable with. However in the end its whatever works best for you! A lot of us trans women go through an experimentation phase that lasts for what seems like forever. But eventually you do find yourself and what works for you, just like any other women does. We're just late to the game is all but we have the time to find ourselves. I mean this is the whole point of transition. Its that true beauty equals being ultimately happy and rocking whatever style you love. Whether that's boy clothes, super fem clothes. Lots of makeup, no makeup, it doesn't matter. I'll say it again it's what makes you feel ultimately happy and comfy. Worrying and trying to achieve an impossible standard of beauty is just setting yourself up for disappoint and even more struggles.

And yes pretty people are always gonna be treated better in our society unfortunately. But with the right look that makes you feel good about yourself thus bringing up your self esteem. It can bring out that internal beauty. You may not look like a runway model but in the end it's about self confidence. As long you have that, no one in this world can stop you.

Quote from: Donna Troy on April 14, 2014, 01:39:43 AM
I'm not pretty either am i though :(

If that's you in your Avatar, I don't know where your getting the idea you aint pretty.

it's extremely important.  i don't feel right if i'm not looking my best.

and it's not *always* about being "beautiful."  there are a lot of different looks i might go for depending on my mood.

I'm sure trying to look beautiful. Appointment with a new plastic surgeon for Friday, board certified, very near by & recommended by my electro lady. This will be my 3rd plastic surgeon to visit so I know more of what to expect. I'm hopeful for a neck & face lift with lower eye work & perhaps upper eye lid work to open up my eyes more. My elecro lady was so funny. She said just tell him you want to look nice. He will make you beautiful & all the men will be after you soon. I want to look my best & become the nicest woman I can possibly become.   

I resent my "prettiness" a lot. I don't want to be pretty. Never wore makeup, never had any fancy hairdo, never wore jewelery or earrings, never done my nails, hate to sexualize/objectify my body and I look like what people call a babe anyway >.<

Getting cat called half a dozen times a day and having random guys start walking with you on the street and hit on you is an absolute pain in the ass and I don't even dress "sexy" or show skin. Used to be fun an validating for like 2 months then it became horrible.

Not meant as a disrespect to anyone here I know some women are biologically hardwired to feel the need to be pretty but just not me. To me getting all dolled up translates into being shallow and being shallow translates into intellectual mediocrity as it has no function.

Quote from: Seyranna on April 16, 2014, 07:38:06 AM
Not meant as a disrespect to anyone here I know some women are biologically hardwired to feel the need to be pretty but just not me. To me getting all dolled up translates into being shallow and being shallow translates into intellectual mediocrity as it has no function.

Thank you. I don't think I've met any other trans woman who feels this way. But it comes from privilege in part don't you think? We get attention regularly so we take it for granted. Those who don't want more of it.

Quote from: Seyranna on April 16, 2014, 07:38:06 AM
Getting cat called half a dozen times a day and having random guys start walking with you on the street and hit on you is an absolute pain in the ass and I don't even dress "sexy" or show skin. Used to be fun an validating for like 2 months then it became horrible.

I've had some of that stuff happen to me throughout my transition. My style of dress is as about as boring as it gets and I NEVER get dolled up....ever. But, on the one hand I found it validating since they obviously wouldn't hit on me if they thought that I was a dude. But, on the other hand, I thought that it was absolutely hilarious since  I'm a lesbian and guys do absolutely nothing for me.  :D

For a long time I put a ton of effort into it, but at some point I started to relax- a lot. I still put in way more effort to my presentation than I did pre-transition, I will say that!

It's definitely easy to go overboard... dolled up to the point where it totally highlights you. If you are just trying to blend, it will make it harder.

I think a lot of it has to do with your surroundings. At least it does for me... I live with several extremely attractive females and it is easy to become inspired to explore new possibilities with presentation

Quote from: Jennygirl on April 16, 2014, 12:20:49 PM
For a long time I put a ton of effort into it, but at some point I started to relax- a lot. I still put in way more effort to my presentation than I did pre-transition, I will say that!

It's definitely easy to go overboard... dolled up to the point where it totally highlights you. If you are just trying to blend, it will make it harder.

I think a lot of it has to do with your surroundings. At least it does for me... I live with several extremely attractive females and it is easy to become inspired to explore new possibilities with presentation

Jennygirl you have been one of my biggest inspirations as I continue my transition. I know you hear this alot, but I think your beautiful with or without being "dolled up," as you put it. I see how happy you are and the glow you seem to have about you, the way you carry yourself, and you along with a few others inspire me along no matter what difficulties I encounter. I watched one of your You Tube videos last night documenting your transition that was very insightful and inspiring. As for me I just be myself and strive to blend in which, for me has been working so far. :icon_flower:

Quote from: Allyda on April 16, 2014, 05:26:06 PM
Jennygirl you have been one of my biggest inspirations as I continue my transition. I know you hear this alot, but I think your beautiful with or without being "dolled up," as you put it. I see how happy you are and the glow you seem to have about you, the way you carry yourself, and you along with a few others inspire me along no matter what difficulties I encounter. I watched one of your You Tube videos last night documenting your transition that was very insightful and inspiring. As for me I just be myself and strive to blend in which, for me has been working so far. :icon_flower:

Well you pretty much just made my entire day! Thank you Allyda, I couldn't help but have a big 'ole grin reading your words- they warm my heart!

And I'm so glad that things have been going well for you. Knowing that I had some part in that really cheers me up a lot. Thanks again :)

Quote from: Jennygirl on April 16, 2014, 05:37:21 PM
Well you pretty much just made my entire day! Thank you Allyda, I couldn't help but have a big 'ole grin reading your words- they warm my heart!

And I'm so glad that things have been going well for you. Knowing that I had some part in that really cheers me up a lot. Thanks again :)

Well It's all true Jennygirl. But I'm happy I was able to brighten your day a little also. :icon_flower:

for me it is very important, even though i didn't start transitioning yet, i hope i do look good in the future and i will try to look good, i think a lot of people want to be and feel attractive, whether they are trans or cis

It would be nice but it's not going to happen.I was an OK looking guy(I looked like a cross between Sons of Anarchy's Opie and Motorhead's Lemmy).I make an OK woman,not ugly not beautiful but in the middle and I'm good with that.I haven't the money for FFS and even if I had I don't think I would go there.I make the most of what I got,I have a hair free face,long ash blonde hair and wear clothes that hide my food baby belly.I see a lot of UK women who look so fake with fake tan,false eyelashes,hair extensions,false nails etc,they look more fake than a lot of trans women!

It's pretty important to me. Perhaps that makes me a shallow person, but that's just who I am. Every tiny flaw about myself bothers me.

I know that beauty is subjective, but what I want is to look in the mirror and see someone who's beautiful by my own standards. If I met someone who thought that, say, my nose is attractive, I would not only disagree with him, I would actually consider him to have very poor taste. My life would be a lot easier if I weren't like this, but it's just how I am. The best thing for me to do is to work around it, i.e. find ways to make myself more attractive.

Hmm. I'm one of the few people who put that it wasn't that important. I hoped I'd get tons of support, but the people of Susan's have spoken.

I DO like thinking that I'm beautiful, but it's just low on my list of priorities. I don't put a lot of time into learning makeup/fashion/hair/accessory tips. Might be some of the reason why I'm having trouble getting a second date from any of my online meets.

Quote from: suzifrommd on April 18, 2014, 07:23:04 PM
Hmm. I'm one of the few people who put that it wasn't that important. I hoped I'd get tons of support, but the people of Susan's have spoken.

I voted the same way. So, you don't fall in line with the opinion of the majority?

Big deal.

Think for yourself.

Quote from: big kim on April 17, 2014, 01:52:42 AM
It would be nice but it's not going to happen.I was an OK looking guy(I looked like a cross between Sons of Anarchy's Opie and Motorhead's Lemmy).I make an OK woman,not ugly not beautiful but in the middle and I'm good with that.I haven't the money for FFS and even if I had I don't think I would go there.I make the most of what I got,I have a hair free face,long ash blonde hair and wear clothes that hide my food baby belly.I see a lot of UK women who look so fake with fake tan,false eyelashes,hair extensions,false nails etc,they look more fake than a lot of trans women!

I'm visualizing this and have do ask: do you have Lemmy's facial moles?  >:-)

I guess my answer depends on your definition of beautiful. I have no interest in being classically gorgeous, but would very much like to be adorably cute.

Quote from: Mia Jennell (Gwynne) on April 18, 2014, 07:53:51 PM
I'm visualizing this and have do ask: do you have Lemmy's facial moles?  >:-)

I haven't got Lemmy's moles but unfortunately I have his voice!

I like to look decent. I only do it up if I'm going on a date or an interview.

Quote from: big kim on April 19, 2014, 01:56:23 AM
I haven't got Lemmy's moles but unfortunately I have his voice!

I love Lemmy's voice! Ace of Spades en femme would be sexy.

It depends, I have two sides to me. One is like, nah, I just want to be normal, and the other is like OMG I MUST BE DROP DEAD SEXY!!!11!!!!!1!
Yet another conflict to my conflicted life.

I think I am the same way. On one hand ya I wanna be beautiful and i guess it is kinda important to me. On the other hand, it would be a pain in the butt, so much attention and yada yada. I think ideally i would like to be like a 7/10 or somewhere around there.

Oh, don't get me wrong! I'd love to be a 10/10 without trying. But that's never gonna happen. I'll settle for a solid whatever-I-can-get as long as I don't get ugly looks!

I'm excited to look nicer soon & maybe beautiful for my age. Facial surgery for a neck & face lift with upper eye lid work is scheduled for June 10th. I gave them a nice deposit so no going back. Plastic surgeon does excellent work on women's faces. One of the best in my entire area. He likes my feminine beginning facial structure & with his improvements I may actually be beautiful again. That would be just great. 

I think worrying about how well we look is part of being women. Even as a kid & through adolescence I always tried to be pretty fixing my hair this way and that. It's hardwired into our brains. :icon_flower: