I was just talking to a transgirl I know, and we both noticed her handwriting has always been very feminine (big loops and such), and she pointed out mine has always been pretty masculine (pointy, quick, messy), it got me wondering whether that was just a coincidence or if more transpeople (both ftm and mtf) have always had, or now have, a distinctly feminine/masculine handwriting.
And what that means, or does it even matter? And what makes a handwriting masculine/feminine, etc.?
I thought it might also be fun to write the sentence "The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog" (or another one, if you like) and take a pic of it, so we can see each others handwriting :P
Here is mine;
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi513.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ft337%2Fbellaaaatje112%2FIMG_20140424_112902_zps09420265.jpg&hash=31b58722f03e73258f9f75db7444a708c8cecdc8)
I wish mine was more feminine, but when I write fast, it is not that good looking and it is pretty messy, but I am working on it.
BTW, I am left-handed, which must not be an excuse, but nevertheless, I write more beautifully than almost every lefty I know :)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1140.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fn569%2Fmonikanovakova%2FIMG_0963.jpg&hash=b10831774ae6231114f6db67401f92f507b8e98c)
I'm not putting up mine, it looks like chicken scratchings as I'm usually in a hurry when I write!
Given time, I can write neatly, but usually, no. :(
Mine has actually improved over the last few months, become much tidier and less scratchy.
Mine's pointy and narrow, but I think that's more from writing quickly than anything else.
I think there are general trends that can be seen between handwriting and gender, however there are always going to be exceptions. Anyway, here is my scrawl!
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi61.tinypic.com%2Fbgwsr8.jpg&hash=7e0a8bdfb7b786be2bd51e8ace6f457b70cd2ee3)
I haven't said what gender I identify with on here yet, so why not take a guess? ;) I'd be interested to see whether people generally get it right or not.
You mean you can write without a keyboard input device?!?! ;)
Mine has always been extremely messy. Esp. now that I rarely ever write anything besides my name and numbers by hand.
You can notice this masc/fem. difference in toddlers. By two, my daughter was writing her name and recognizable drawings. At 2, my son still scribbles messy circles. LOL.
My phone's camera sucks... O_o but this is my hand writing
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi22.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb342%2Fkachie_takahashi%2FWriting_zpsa6ae6529.png&hash=c535407d35844b40c038ce16283acf22f5ff7e51) (http://s22.photobucket.com/user/kachie_takahashi/media/Writing_zpsa6ae6529.png.html)
Kade, your writing sample is making me hungry.
Quote from: JamesG on April 24, 2014, 06:42:49 AM
You mean you can write without a keyboard input device?!?! ;)
This!!! I've filled out a few forms to change ID details but that's pretty much it since starting transition but as my job involves basically just coding I only rarely even see a pen, never mind actually use one!
My handwriting has sucked since birth, so I was thankful that computers were invented.
If you guys are doing a scientific(ish) experiment, you need a control group. Here's my (mostly) cisgendered gay male handwriting.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FFrTr6xL.png&hash=4bcc3d62f9bce5c5460e2764a8aca8baa10fb06b)
@Aquarelle, I actually think you have a very feminine and beautiful handwriting. Maybe because mine is so messy, lol. But I like the swirls! Maybe not the most usual female handwriting, but it looks too... ehh... 'flourishing'? to be male. (generally speaking, that is)
@NimeniJss, your handwriting strikes me as female too. I dunno why, I think because of the round angles and shapes.
@Kade, I WANT FREAKING CHEESE NOW! Lol XD Yknow your handwriting is exactly the same as my old physics teachers'. You're sure you're not just secretly him? (I hope not... lol)
@Dalebert, it would be cool to do a scientific experiment on this (though I am not a scientist, LOL!) Of course we can't right now, too few people, but yet it would be cool if we could see some sort of a coherence. (or lack thereof)
I always wondered... WHAT does one's handwriting REALLY say, if it even says anything?
But I wonder... isn't male/female handwriting more a matter of messy/tidy? Like... most girls put more effort into having a proper handwriting while guys don't care that much?
I don't know I have a tremor though :( it varies a lot depending on the day and my mood. On an okish day it looks like this (I am MAAB)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fnycyp7e.jpg&hash=00aec245e17bf56714b5176f0829718b7a10cc60)
On a bad day it is hardly legible...
I get the feeling my generation has mostly bad handwriting though, lol, computers. My sister's is even sloppier and she doesn't have a tremor.
I do think a lot of it just comes down to caring.
My handwriting has always been atrocious.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi58.tinypic.com%2Fvx0qvn.jpg&hash=029ee2e5cac537c4e69585dcaa6fc4d3ae0cba1c)
Don't think it's necessarily a trans thing. Because I've been jealous of girls' handwriting since middle school, and trying actively to make mine more feminine, and consistently failing at it. I'm always like "HOW do you make your handwriting look that pretty? No fair!"
Quote from: Carrie Liz on April 24, 2014, 01:11:50 PM
Don't think it's necessarily a trans thing. Because I've been jealous of girls' handwriting since middle school, and trying actively to make mine more feminine, and consistently failing at it. I'm always like "HOW do you make your handwriting look that pretty? No fair!"
I kinda felt that way when I was younger cause my handwriting as a kid was SO horribad that my teachers could never read it
I have always had messy handwriting. It looks like chicken scratch. I used to write extremely small too in high school (to conserve paper). I could fit 4-8 pages of notes on half a sheet of paper.
Ooh...my turn, my turn! I've got a couple more months before I can really get started in earnest on transition, so I figured handwriting was something I could work on now. So I've been practicing. Here's my before and after. What do you think?
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1373.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fag361%2Fkate9l%2FMobile%2520Uploads%2FHandwriting_zps1303b7d4.png&hash=6a859338fbe0544e640c036a6b3773f4dc0d4e52) (http://s1373.photobucket.com/user/kate9l/media/Mobile%20Uploads/Handwriting_zps1303b7d4.png.html)
Honestly, I find the idea of gendered writing to be a weird. I mean can you really know someone's gender based on how they write? Is there a male or female way to express yourself in writing? And does that only apply to hand writing as opposed to text? I don't know, this sounds all too confusing to me. I've noticed generalizations here and there about how the gender express themselves, but there is nothing really definitively different about how men and women write. At least, I can't see it overall.
I dont belive in male or female hand writting, just pretty and ugly, or read-able and non-readable.
here is from my tablet. pretty ugly I know..
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi59.tinypic.com%2F2ii7rph.jpg&hash=5f4f43536cb9637b8dcc08b138fb6950c829edb9)
I never thought about this until now. I have always had atrocious handwriting, and I sometimes can't even read my own. It's an effort I was never willing to make, I guess.
Maybe I'll start trying to improve/feminize it. Should I start by putting a little heart over the "i" in Jill?
honestly it could just be based off how women "should have" "neat" and "pretty" handwriting, wanting it to be nice themselves even. i say this because i see a lot of women complain about their handwriting being "messy" when it's all bubbly, neat and eligible but to them..it isn't and men..well..they don't care. that and people say it's based off hand size. who knows though, all i know is that feminine handwriting is more bubbly while masculine is more pointy and straight it seems. even when trying to write neat, i find men tend to still write straight and pointy but i've seen women break that stereotype (my teacher being one of them.)
The real question is doctors. Why is their handwriting always total crap?
I don't have a consistent handwriting style. I've been trying to stick to cursive this past year but sometimes I'll start writing entirely differently and then remember. It depends on who I'm thinking of (I can copy some people's handwriting pretty well), what pen I have and how my hands feeling. Its never been the same since I broke a bone in it in 2009.
I was jealous of girls' handwriting as a kid because their work always seemed so neat and legible, but never felt right when I tried to emulate it, it just looked awkward and false. If handwriting dysphoria is possible then I've had it.
Someone mentioned something that reminded me of college last year when a tutor refused to mark my work because it wasn't neat enough for a girl. It was mostly right what was in it, so there was no other reason for him not to mark it. I had to redo it even though it was neater than a lot of the guys.
Quote from: dalebert on April 25, 2014, 07:57:45 AM
The real question is doctors. Why is their handwriting always total crap?
8 years of cadaver formaldehyde fumes?
Male hand writing tends to be all over the place and messy, as female hand writing tends to be bubbly and full of artistic flavor so to speak. I know plently of females who's hand writing is worse than the typical male hand writing so i would say the is completely thrown out to see lol.
I wonder how much of this is innate and how much expectation. I mean, even if a guy's tendency was to write 'pretty', he may feel cause to adjust it. And likewise for a girl.
Anyway, my handwriting was probably pretty girly and everyone loved it. I wrote 'weird' because I hold my pen weird and my writing always bored hard into the paper. but it looked good and everyone envied it so... :P
my hand writing is like hopped on red bull with a serious case of bi-polar xD for some reason, it starts out soft than ends up scaring the hell out of people :icon_weee:
Quote from: FA on April 27, 2014, 12:07:33 AM
I wonder how much of this is innate and how much expectation. I mean, even if a guy's tendency was to write 'pretty', he may feel cause to adjust it. And likewise for a girl.
I have an 11 year-old boy and a 9 year-old girl, and it isn't even close. Her penmanship is so much better than his. It still hasn't developed into the stereotypical bubbly rounded girl writing, but it's definitely a lot neater than his, and he really couldn't care less.
My brother, on the other hand, has always had the handwriting of a 12 year old girl. He's in his 30's, and isn't going to change. It is what it is.
But I still disagree with most people here who say that there is no such thing as masculine or feminine writing. Of course there are exceptions, and not everyone is going to conform to stereotypes. But if you were to examine 100 samples of people's handwriting, I'd bet that most people could accurately guess on 75% of them.
It seems to me that a good portion of passability -- however you define it -- is in the details. And if your aim is to blend in, you have to think about and conform to society's expectations of gender expression. Handwriting is one of those details, and I refuse to be outed by my all-caps, very angular and stereotypically male handwriting.
Quote from: katiej on April 27, 2014, 12:46:57 AM
It seems to me that a good portion of passability -- however you define it -- is in the details. And if your aim is to blend in, you have to think about and conform to society's expectations of gender expression. Handwriting is one of those details, and I refuse to be outed by my all-caps, very angular and stereotypically male handwriting.
I doubt you'd be outed by it. Handwriting differs so much. And female doctors... well had a few of those and... :laugh: yeah.
Anyway, handwriting is unique (it's used in forensics! :laugh:). I don't care whether mine looks the way it does because I was born and raised a girl. I like it anyway. It's mine.
Quote from: FA on April 27, 2014, 12:58:09 AM
I doubt you'd be outed by it. Handwriting differs so much. And female doctors... well had a few of those and... :laugh: yeah.
You're right that it's unlikely I'd ever be outed by handwriting alone. But if someone already has doubts and is looking for cues, it could work against me. So I've developed a new style of writing that is a lot more typically feminine than my normal writing. It still isn't quite as round or fluid as I'd like, but my hand just doesn't seem to want to do that. But at least it gives me plausible deniability, and I think it'll improve with time.
Doctors are a whole different class of people. I used to work in a hospital and had to learn how to interpret their writing.
Here's a sample of my before and after:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1373.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fag361%2Fkate9l%2FMobile%2520Uploads%2FHandwriting_zps1303b7d4.png&hash=6a859338fbe0544e640c036a6b3773f4dc0d4e52)
I've been told I should be a doctor because my handwriting is so illegible. If that were the only qualification required, heck yea, I'd take the job. But it involves blood, guts, and worst, needles.
Being adextrous doesn't help; I can write legibly with neither hand, and am otherwise mixed handed, so the only reason I (attempt to) write right handed is because it was drilled into me from a young age that that was the norm.
Quote from: FA on April 27, 2014, 12:58:09 AM
I doubt you'd be outed by it. Handwriting differs so much. And female doctors... well had a few of those and... :laugh: yeah.
Anyway, handwriting is unique (it's used in forensics! :laugh:). I don't care whether mine looks the way it does because I was born and raised a girl. I like it anyway. It's mine.
Yea, just write one way, than write another. sure fire way to get away with stuff when since forensics does try to match your hand writing xD just wear gloves though ;D :laugh:
My handwriting is pretty damn ugly, no matter how hard I try to improve it. I've made several attempts to make it more "girly" but it's not happening. ???
My roman writing looks a lot like arabic script. :-\
Up until I was in junior high I used to write very neat and bubbly. I actually tried to emulate the handwriting from the girls I knew because I liked how pretty it was.
Then I started to get made fun of because of my handwriting looking girly... and I'm sad to say I succumbed to that peer pressure and let my handwriting become sloppy and messy.
Here's what it looks like now (top) and what it looks like if I try to print it cleaner and more bubbly (bottom):
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-1lRg0SzzZik/U-KiM4roqfI/AAAAAAAAAmI/AkhJYgpJuI4/w309-h200-no/sample_20140806.jpg)
Neither are really that feminine in my mind. It's something for me to work on. Changing handwriting is hard though, especially after years and years.
I write in a hurry.
So my writing usually look like chicken scratchings. If I'm not pressed for time then I can write pretty neatly in a fashion that is "neutral"
Quote from: Natkat on April 24, 2014, 04:22:25 PM
I dont belive in male or female hand writting, just pretty and ugly, or read-able and non-readable.
I have the same view. My handwriting has changed so much over the past five years, but I finally reached the point where I couldactually read it, about three years ago. Here it is now.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FM4S5Gfa.jpg&hash=b3058a60bbb2c7f82d145373b0a93e746a31b2ff)
Male or female handwriting meh, It all comes down to penmanship in my opinion. Fast or slow this is how I write
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1279.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy534%2Fimmortalgypsy%2FMobile%2520Uploads%2F20140808_110915_zps550ef9d4.jpg&hash=d5160ee15f6b1d0bf3d774108f615d7bcefca9b0)
Yes there is actual handwriting on that paper. I was the bane of my teachers and have had forms handed back to me because people don't relise I have already signed them
Quote from: Hyacinth on August 07, 2014, 12:31:30 PM
I have the same view. My handwriting has changed so much over the past five years, but I finally reached the point where I couldactually read it, about three years ago. Here it is now.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FM4S5Gfa.jpg&hash=b3058a60bbb2c7f82d145373b0a93e746a31b2ff)
Wow...are you a calligrapher? Your handwriting is very fancy. :) :)
Quote from: katiej on August 08, 2014, 10:40:20 AM
Wow...are you a calligrapher? Your handwriting is very fancy. :) :)
Not professionally, just as an amateur hobby. My handwriting used to be so bad I couldn't even read it.
When I sit down to actually write something like poetry or a diary entry my handwriting is very tidy and stylish. It's not big and loopy, but I often combine print with cursive and accentuate certain letters when it seems to flow that way. If I'm just writing something down as a note, or filling out a form, it's a bit more uneven and lumpy. But honestly, handwriting really isn't a signifier of gender; not entirely. There are those specific cases where it's very obvious, but many of my female friends have handwriting that is indistinguishable.
Here's an example of my writing when I'm not really trying to be all that neat:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/46977112/sororcaeli-handwriting.jpg
https://38.media.tumblr.com/41a59dd812d73ffdec9cf16ceb98b51f/tumblr_na1dhn68JZ1raevsgo1_500.jpg
Never quite got the hang of full cursive, so the handwriting tends to be a bit half-and-half, I always thought the style was fairly neutral.
I've always been told i've had really girly handwriting.
I was a teacher so I had nice readable writing that actually really was more printing. Things have deteriorated, but more because I'm retired and don't need it to be so readable.
Handwriting, how quaint?
--Jay