Sometimes I feel like we are the replicants in Blade Runner
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Foi58.tinypic.com%2F10oguvq.jpg&hash=6677eac3e4b82e9c7c8d4a0de975765dd08281f2)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Foi59.tinypic.com%2Fridapd.jpg&hash=2b7f5738befff33c92d18354177f77689895377b)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Foi58.tinypic.com%2Fajw61j.jpg&hash=37a3a85d1093cfffdeed98d9fd921df1a6071003)
Or the Mecha's in A.I. Artificial Intelligence.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Foi58.tinypic.com%2F2wekxuw.jpg&hash=4c3214cce8f6a23a119183c46712aef8390ee95b)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Foi62.tinypic.com%2F1rfejr.jpg&hash=426bf23e2133cb0b99feb81b6efa28258975d03b)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Foi62.tinypic.com%2F21919hj.jpg&hash=85b26f357d8eb315ee38390db5c3d890dbf5a46c)
We who look out for our own kind because we know how vulnerable we are. Just trying to blend in and avoid being put on the radar. As if that wasn't esoteric enough there's Blade Runner and A.I.'s promiscuously charged caricature of said artificial beings.
I can't imagine how hard it must have been to be trans and without the web. It must have been like lurking in dark corners and being in constant fear. And then we have a forum like Susans and YouTube to bring us all together in ways never before possible.
I'd be willing to bet half of us would never be on HRT if it wasn't for places like this to share, inspire, consolidate and corroborate important information.
But we're still a minority. Like exiles on our own island. So, are we really a tight knit community?
I bags being the Daryl Hannah replicant! She had some pretty mean thighs! ;)
Tightly knit in some sections, yes, but there are still many people who feel isolated for any number of reasons. And sadly even the tightly knit parts are still prone to savagely tearing themselves apart over pointless, petty squabbles. We're human, that's what humans do.
Having tried transition in the "dim dark days" before the internet really existed (1990) I can say transition for me with the web has been very different. The wealth of information at one's fingertips is fantastic - stuff that took me ages to research can be found in one sitting. But definitely having a place like Susan's has been pivotal. Being treated as a person, being able to be myself and called by the name I've chosen and be identified by the gender I identify as has been a bedrock for my transition. Knowing that I'm not alone and that there are so many others going through similar experiences gave me hope that I could make it work this time. Humanity is at its best when it can work together, not pull itself apart, that's what I love about this awesome little community despite the occasional ructions.
Blade runner is one of mine most greatest movie ..Yes how they just wanted to just live a normal life ,( what is normal ? ) For me being on hrt i thought i knew happiness but now i see in colors with my heart /eyes /and mind (before then it was black and white i just didn,t know it ) I am thinking that normal gender people will never connect or feel what i myself have felt so far .. There will be hard times for me but i will never doubt who and what i am .HAPPY AND AT PEACE eat your heart out world .. AKA Sara
Quote from: fusstangtroy on April 26, 2014, 08:03:44 PM
Blade runner is one of mine most greatest movie ..Yes how they just wanted to just live a normal life ,( what is normal ? ) For me being on hrt i thought i knew happiness but now i see in colors with my heart /eyes /and mind (before then it was black and white i just didn,t know it ) I am thinking that normal gender people will never connect or feel what i myself have felt so far .. There will be hard times for me but i will never doubt who and what i am .HAPPY AND AT PEACE eat your heart out world .. AKA Sara
^^
"I've... seen things you people wouldn't believe... Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate..."
While there are support groups on the internet like this one, and I'm sure some real life transgender support organization here an there. But. In my experience, no the T community is not tight knit.
Beyond the social taboo assigned to it which makes most T people secretive by nature, it seems to me that most are very individualistic and want to keep to themselves. They are either in the closet, or fully transitioned and so disinclined to identifying as trans. I've tried to reach out to local transgendered people I've been able to make contact with (mostly online) but it has largely failed. People don't even seem to want to meet and get to know others much less formally organize into... whatever. Of course I am not really plugged into the ALT/gay/swing scene either, so I could be missing something (I'm a plain vanilla suburban transgurl, I guess).
Quote from: JamesG on April 26, 2014, 08:33:55 PM
While there are support groups on the internet like this one, and I'm sure some real life transgender support organization here an there. But. In my experience, no the T community is not tight knit.
Beyond the social taboo assigned to it which makes most T people secretive by nature, it seems to me that most are very individualistic and want to keep to themselves. They are either in the closet, or fully transitioned and so disinclined to identifying as trans. I've tried to reach out to local transgendered people I've been able to make contact with (mostly online) but it has largely failed. People don't even seem to want to meet and get to know others much less formally organize into... whatever. Of course I am not really plugged into the ALT/gay/swing scene either, so I could be missing something (I'm a plain vanilla suburban transgurl, I guess).
Bam! You nailed it. This is something a lot of us need to get past. Some transpeople never want to be seen with another transperson because it dramatically increases the likelihood of being clocked. This is not the case with me, because I don't remotely care what random people think.
The problem with this is that it hurts the advancement of our cause. Too often the LGBs are willing to ignore the Ts and will sometimes throw us under the bus, whether consciously or not. We really need all the help we can get, and we won't get it unless we stand together and make the right noises in unison.
/rant
Quote from: Jill F on April 26, 2014, 08:58:30 PM
Bam! You nailed it. This is something a lot of us need to get past. Some transpeople never want to be seen with another transperson because it dramatically increases the likelihood of being clocked. This is not the case with me, because I don't remotely care what random people think.
The problem with this is that it hurts the advancement of our cause. Too often the LGBs are willing to ignore the Ts and will sometimes throw us under the bus, whether consciously or not. We really need all the help we can get, and we won't get it unless we stand together and make the right noises in unison.
/rant
ditto
Quote from: Jill F on April 26, 2014, 08:58:30 PM
Bam! You nailed it. This is something a lot of us need to get past. Some transpeople never want to be seen with another transperson because it dramatically increases the likelihood of being clocked. This is not the case with me, because I don't remotely care what random people think.
The problem with this is that it hurts the advancement of our cause. Too often the LGBs are willing to ignore the Ts and will sometimes throw us under the bus, whether consciously or not. We really need all the help we can get, and we won't get it unless we stand together and make the right noises in unison.
/rant
1 in 30,000 mtf. 1 in 100,000 ftm.
Noises in unison indeed. Jill, you hit it. Why should anyone listen to this rediculous minority if we do not stand together?
Alone our voices are lost.
Are those stats accurate? I've seen several figures on the web, but I can't help but really wonder how many of us are more pervasively in the closet than your average LGB.
It would be heartening to know if it is.
I don't think we are a tight knit community at all. The local community here in Adelaide sure has it's issues and recent events here have shown some division..
I have almost nothing to do with the trans community except online. Here, a chat I help Mod and some FB stuff.. Why? Little in common apart from being trans.. And, even then, my attitude towards being trans is way different to most.. So I just wandered off and got on with my life.. I do see others sometimes when I'm out and about, but I don't make a habit of it.. I've gotten lost in a sea of lesbians - which was always kind of the aim..
Seattle has several trans support meetings and during Gay Pride week there is a Trans Pride March. In addition in three weeks there is Esprit, where we take over a major hotel for a week, have girl 101 classes, fellowship and dance the night away. For me the meetings are a mixed bag, there can be a lot of negativity and unlike the web you can't really avoid it and still participate. This will be my first trip to Esprit, but the Trans Pride march two years ago was the first time I did anything as Julie, and the first time I felt gender accepted ever.
Before the world wide web I was alone, isolated, unsure and afraid. Until not that long ago I could not admit to anyone, much less myself that I was gender queer much less trans. So yes, there is community here (Seattle) and while supportive it isn't demanding or suffocating. All of you at Susan's are here for me 7/24, when I can't sleep at three in the morning till I fall into bed at night. I feel a part of, sometimes helpful, and always accepted even though I am old, even though I am unsure. It that sense this is closely knit and totally available. That we rarely or never see other, and I can only psychically give you a hug or celebrate your achievements is something I miss. But I wouldn't trade my here and now for all my yesterdays.
Quote from: Evelyn K on April 26, 2014, 09:55:57 PM
Are those stats accurate? I've seen several figures on the web, but I can't help but really wonder how many of us are more pervasively in the closet than your average LGB.
It would be heartening to know if it is.
Does it matter Evelyn? Honestly, can there be a more under represented group?
At what point in time do we say,"I AM HERE!!!"?
I see your point. I do. We will still be bleeding, no mater the numbers.
I just want to live a normal life. How many of us have reached the other side and just wanted to blend in? How easy is it to forget?
The lure is so great that I would never hold it against anyone. You are all so wonderful, I will cry tears of joy when you can put this behind you and LIVE, in harmony, mind and body.
The class of 2015, 2016, 2017 and so on will still be fighting.
Gay, bi, different races and creeds last a lifetime. We last only as long as we have to. And, oh how I understand this.
The circle continues.
When does it end?
When do we become a viable people to to the world?
We need to think bigger than than Mikaela. Instead of becoming an even more distinct, insular sub-group, society overall needs to be more encompassing and accepting. I think American culture, with all its flaws and failings, is on the way to doing that, where it doesn't matter what your... whatever is. You are just a person.
Quote from: JulieBlair on April 26, 2014, 10:12:11 PM
Seattle has several trans support meetings and during Gay Pride week there is a Trans Pride March. In addition in three weeks there is Esprit, where we take over a major hotel for a week, have girl 101 classes, fellowship and dance the night away.
Yeah, Atlanta up the road from here is the same, in fact there is a annual transgender convention held there (name of which has slipped out of my head...).
Quote
Before the world wide web I was alone, isolated, unsure and afraid. Until not that long ago I could not admit to anyone, much less myself that I was gender queer much less trans.
Yes, the connectivity and information sharing of the internet has definitely been what the military calls a "force multiplier" to the trans community. It has enabled those who would otherwise be lost (sometimes literally) to find themselves.
Quote from: Mikaela on April 26, 2014, 10:36:08 PM
Does it matter Evelyn? Honestly, can there be a more under represented group?
At what point in time do we say,"I AM HERE!!!"?
I see your point. I do. We will still be bleeding, no mater the numbers.
I just want to live a normal life. How many of us have reached the other side and just wanted to blend in? How easy is it to forget?
The lure is so great that I would never hold it against anyone. You are all so wonderful, I will cry tears of joy when you can put this behind you and LIVE, in harmony, mind and body.
The class of 2015, 2016, 2017 and so on will still be fighting.
Gay, bi, different races and creeds last a lifetime. We last only as long as we have to. And, oh how I understand this.
The circle continues.
When does it end?
When do we become a viable people to to the world?
You may have a point. Just think - how many are so successful at blending that they choose to remain stealthy even on census orientation polling.
I guess we'll never know.
Quote from: kelly_aus on April 26, 2014, 10:06:03 PM
I've gotten lost in a sea of lesbians - which was always kind of the aim..
That is a sea I want to get lost in too... ;)
Quote from: Evelyn K on April 26, 2014, 03:46:41 AMSo, are we really a tight knit community?
No way. Most trans people I know IRL don't want anything to do with other trans people.
^^^ And probably because trying to pass by yourself is hard enough. With two or more there's just more room for (error) and attracting unwanted scrutiny.
Quote from: suzifrommd on April 27, 2014, 04:21:51 PM
No way. Most trans people I know IRL don't want anything to do with other trans people.
I would hang out with trans people that I had something in common with (music, etc). Otherwise, forget it.
Being tight-knit isn't really possible when a lot of your members are hiding (pre and post transition).
We all have this one big thing in common, but our stories and backgrounds are all so different. As someone else said, we don't really have that much in common other than the process of acceptance and transition that pulls us together until we're done and ready to move on.
Quote from: Mikaela on April 26, 2014, 09:50:08 PM
1 in 30,000 mtf. 1 in 100,000 ftm.
I'm a numbers girl, and these don't seem right. 350 million people in the US, 49% male = 175 million males. If you use the 1:30,000 ratio, that would be only 5,700 MTF's in the country. And my understanding is that there are more like 50-100,000 MTF's in the US who have already transitioned, based on surgery numbers and data from therapists.
I read somewhere that it could be as many as 1 in 250 males are transgender, and only a small portion of those ever transition. If that's true, and only 15% ever transition, that would put the number at 100k MTF's in America. And that seems about right. And that would mean the ratio is that 1 in 1,750 males in the US eventually transitions.
It would seem that something that common would be better understood, but it all comes back to stealth and blending in. Many of our best and brightest are invisible. It hurts our cause, but I totally get why they do it. Not everyone wants to be an activist.
Quote from: Jill F on April 26, 2014, 08:58:30 PM
Bam! You nailed it. This is something a lot of us need to get past. Some transpeople never want to be seen with another transperson because it dramatically increases the likelihood of being clocked
Yep! That is me!
I spent a LOT a time and effort doing my best to blend in. Why would I want to undo that and "out" myself? Undermine years of work and effort?
I go out with trans people in trans places, but not in everyday locations.
Because you don't have to.
I don't go outside of Susans to meet other trans, for many reasons. Exposure, or seeing something I don't want to see - I need to be among the authentic and that is more likely here in Susans. I cannot afford to get anything negative about trans right now.
That being said, relationships are forming in here that are completely priceless to me. I hope they feel the same way about me, I dont know or not, but I would be totally overcome by fear right now if I didn't have the ability to come here. And when any of us hurt or want to leave, I hurt a lot. I cannot do this by myself any more I will crack up.
I would have no idea what my gender identity is turning into if I wasn't part of this precious group. I am very fragile right now and it wouldn't take much to take me out.
So is it tight- this place may be, there is probably a core group sharing that is tight and that I love seeing posting. They may not feel close to me but I sure feel close to them - you my dears -
Yeah those stats are not right, they are old ones, the one in 250 is newer. We may never really know.
Evylin I am jealous of your lipstick girl. Emily you look great, and have helped me a lot, since I appear to be outside the norm here somehow and I need the courage to be genuine. I still feel like a third sex, definitely not male, but not a girl either. Unique, but not alone. We gave up on trying to diagnose me with a label, seems like I don't have one. LOL. Definitely physically a preop transwoman though. That is simply a fact.
Stay close to each other girls, we have something very special here.
Transgender people are not tight knit compared with lesbian/gay people. Basically, transgender people are too much diverse in their gender identity and expression, while lesbian/gay people are coherent each other with potential love, and are interested in other people. On the contrary, we are introspective, focusing on ourselves, not to others.
barbie~~
My therapist gave me some data from another site that cited statistics from the 2000 US Census. Those showed 5% of the population as in some way trans. This would range from minimal exploration with cross dressing to those living in their correct gender full time. Those living full time were about 400,000 in 2000. About 2/3 MtF and the rest FtM. Only about a third had GCS.
There are a LOT more trans than anybody in the cis world wants to admit. And, yes, we are really isolated. The closest support group for me to try and plug into is a two hour drive away. They meet at a time I have a conflict, so to go I would have to make arrangements to deal with my other responsibilities and risk outing myself coming up with reasons.
This is tough.
Erin
Quote from: ErinWDK on April 28, 2014, 08:09:31 AM
My therapist gave me some data from another site that cited statistics from the 2000 US Census. Those showed 5% of the population as in some way trans. This would range from minimal exploration with cross dressing to those living in their correct gender full time. Those living full time were about 400,000 in 2000. About 2/3 MtF and the rest FtM. Only about a third had GCS.
Wow! 1 in 20 are transgender in some way. That's a lot more than I realized. And about 2/10ths of a percent of the male population has transitioned...or roughly 1 in 650 men.
Quote from: ErinWDK on April 28, 2014, 08:09:31 AM
There are a LOT more trans than anybody in the cis world wants to admit.
It's probably ignorance more than anything. Maybe not that they
don't want to know...they just don't know. Heck, I've been trans my whole life, and even I didn't know how many of us there are. We as a group really are good at hiding! :(
You ppls are actually probably my best fwiends (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Foi61.tinypic.com%2F2u921dd.jpg&hash=d846405f797fa7b14bfb4af49f857f3bd4782ddc)
We understand each other (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Foi59.tinypic.com%2Fff9rx2.jpg&hash=4ce7ef030caa646ebc2750673ecbe1a7e3e11ca3)
I find the very idea of a trans community, at least in the US, to be kind of a farce. I mean in india and thailand I think there is an actual trans culture occurring. My experience is ofc biased by my own non-desire to find such a community. I mean I just want to blend into the world and live my life and am not seeking a trans community to connect with. So I suppose there could be little pockets of community existing outside of support groups in America that I don't know of. I get that my experience is skewed away from seeing it.
But the only place I personally have seen trans community actually exist is on this forum, and other online forums like it that I have never really delved into, aside from that it exists as a sort of myth that (usually cis) people talk about because they can do nothing but project gay tropes on trans peeps cause we're confusing and must be thrown in some box so why not that one? I honestly have never consciously met another trans person in the real world. The only trans friends I have, I met here, none of whom I have ever met in the flesh. How can there be a community or a culture surrounding a condition that is so rare and woodworked that you literally could go your whole life without making a single meaningful IRL connection with another person of your ilk? Are people sharing a medical condition even an ilk? Idk. But woodworked is the key I think to there not being a community in the US, cause that's cultural. In Thailand and other places trans people seem to be drawn together, and that is the only way we could ever mix with each other enough to create an actual culture cause we're too few, and too dispersed.
There is a real online community though and it saves lives all the time, cause I think you need to connect with people like yourself and realize you are not totally alone to find hope which is the key to surviving this condition. I can't even imagine taking on the process of transition before the internet existed. Maybe connections forged in these online communities now will start to build a community of some sort in the future. Is that something most of us actually want? Am I totally off-base? I only have my own perspective and experiences to base anything on. What do you all think?
Yeah in the Philippines the bakla (third-gender) hang out with each other even though they don't sleep together, and generally sleep with masculine men (who often also have wives, but that's another problem). I think it's partially because it's more accepted there so there's not a culture around stealth the same way it is in the U.S. There's also more homogeneity since they desire the same gender, share tips and stories, etc.
I am happy to meet and hang out with anyone here who feels like hanging out with me in NYC. Pm me if you feel like. I'll make sure to look as cis-looking as possible so you don't have to get worried about being clocked. :p
]
Quote from: mandonlym on April 29, 2014, 10:55:03 PM
Yeah in the Philippines the bakla (third-gender) hang out with each other even though they don't sleep together, and generally sleep with masculine men (who often also have wives, but that's another problem). I think it's partially because it's more accepted there so there's not a culture around stealth the same way it is in the U.S. There's also more homogeneity since they desire the same gender, share tips and stories, etc.
I am happy to meet and hang out with anyone here who feels like hanging out with me in NYC. Pm me if you feel like. I'll make sure to look as cis-looking as possible so you don't have to get worried about being clocked. :p
Nahh, when I go up to visit you I want us to be trans obvious haha. Gonna glam it up, 6 inch heels and everything, then cruise for ->-bleeped-<-s, haha, just kidding...mostly.
What's funny is, I've never been clocked, and I can't even pass as male atm, but I also couldn't care less about it. Gender ain't nothin but a thing. I think people get too worked up and take the fun out of self expression.
I ran across some stats from the census but can't find them again... the numbers for the US were 700,000 transgender. What I've seen for percentages is 1:30,000 FtM and 1:10,000 MtF. When I was trying to figure this out in the 80's the stats were 1:100,000 were MtF. I lived in a city of 100,000 and so I figured I was it. I met one woman early in her transition in college and she told me who was cool on faculty and who the surgeons and therapists were. I never really saw her again after that but that was all I needed.
Bad Joke Warning: what do you call a group of trans women? A Clock of ->-bleeped-<-s. Seriously, that was a joke, no fair getting offended. I don't think trans women are tight knit because we are a mirror to each other that only shows our worst fears. I hope that will change with the newer girls being able to come out early in life and be accepted, but it is unlikely that there will be lots of trans women in the same place to socialize with, the exception being college or larger cities.
Besides Julie who started me on the right path, I've only ever met 1 other trans women (that I know of) in my life, and I didn't even know she was until the office busybody told me "I knew her when she was doug". I just thought she was one of the gals.
Found the study - it's from 2011 http://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/Gates-How-Many-People-LGBT-Apr-2011.pdf
Ironically, lately I care a whole lot less about being identified as trans, though that may be because no one thinks I'm trans or male, ever. But, I had this friend that was trans (she has since detranstioned and started smoking crack so I cut her out of my life like a malignant mole) and about, idk, seven months ago or so we went out while our BFs went to some car movie. She was a lot more gay identified too and didn't pass. But, I hung out and went out and about a pretty bad part of town anyhows. Excpet for some park she wanted to go to it was dark and i'm all of 5'5 and 118 lbs so...yeah, scary. The other thing is she didn't pass and really wanted boobs. Like she was obssessed with breasts and having them. And lil ole me happens to be a 30-32D, so needless to say she was jealous and always talked s~!t. But she tried to pick up guys and several called her a ->-bleeped-<-got. But, when they looked at me, they didn't say word one. I almost felt like a ->-bleeped-<- hag though I'm sure if I had a conversation with someone at this point I would have stopped passing. But I was on HRT for like a couple months so my face didn't change all that much yet. And with my soon to be BF not around I was scared.
I really don't know what the point of that was other than you don't always get clocked by virtue of hanging with a non-passable trans girl. I have a really high pitched voice too so I'm sure it helps. And I have no visible tells: small hands, small feet, small head, tiny narrow shoulders, the whole nine yards. I was attempting, or am attempting to get more involved with the queer community here in Philly and even joined a queer bookclub, but that will be mostly lesbians, and I can swing that way, but it will be awhile sine I'm in love with a man. Hopefully forever. He did say once we will be together til we die an then be buried next to each other so...I'm on his team. And hopefully take his name. *heart flutters while picturing herself staring at a crowd through a veil in a white strapless wedding dress with a tight bodice with lots of lace, a hint of cleavage and a full flowy skirt pushed to the max with petticoats with two girls behind her carrying the ten foot tail of her dress like she be the queen bee*
Anyhoo, aside from my wedding fantasies, I just don't ever see a burgeoning trans community outside of small pockets of peeps in large cities that prolly came together by virtue of being trans but don't stay together because of it. I mean other than being trans I don't see a lot of conversations here about stuff I would love to talk about. There's rarely anything about makeup, fashion, beauty, gossip, babies, boys, boys, and boys....I mean the stuff I would talk about is outnumbered like 10 to one by conversations about guns and techy stuff. i get enough of that from my man. There's a lot of hormone related stuff and transtion related stuff so I keep coming back but I could talk about men like all day and makeup or gossip or other stuff peeps here seem to have zero interest in and so I feel like this little priss in a sea of tomboys. And that's fine. Don't take that the wrong way. But for a community to build up there has to be more in common than "oh you take X dose; I take Y dose." How bout that spiro...heard it...ok im rambling. time to shut up like three paragraphs ago.
Quote from: Joanna Dark on April 29, 2014, 11:33:44 PM
But she tried to pick up guys and several called her a ->-bleeped-<-got. But, when they looked at me, they didn't say word one.
What's crazy is being mistaken for cis by other trans women. I've coined a term for this: being cissed. My funniest story about that was when I was at a drag/trans bar rooting a friend who was participating in a beauty pageant, and I came so the only seat I could find was on the arm of a couch next to this guy who started talking to me. Then his trans gf came along and said, "Don't forget, c**nts are bad for you," then he said, "She only lets me talk to you because you're not trans." That was twelve years ago pre-op and I felt triumphant at the time. Now if that were to happen I would find it sad, like my whole history has been erased. But that's just activist me.
Quote from: Joanna Dark on April 29, 2014, 11:33:44 PM
There's rarely anything about makeup, fashion, beauty, gossip, babies, boys, boys, and boys....
Start these topics, I would post in them :). Ofc I kind of come and go and couldn't be counted on to see them, but surely there are others interested in these things? I would actually probably be on here more if there were more topics about things outside of trans issues I am interested in. I too find it's rare to run into such threads and get bored and don't check in for weeks.
I don't think the stats are correct on trans people nor do I agree with the idea that there are so many more trans women than trans men, it makes no sense. OTOH, it might be that there are more *identified* trans women, because you can live as female on the boundaries kind of in a very masculine way. I'm sure a lot of trans guys lived this way in the past, esp. You kind of see a "boom" in trans men and I think that fewer trans guys will live like this in the future. Also since T, allows a lot more trans men to "pass" they end up being stealth, a lot of times.
I am really part of the trans community in Albuquerque, where we have a very strong center and so on. You don't see this everywhere.
BTW, there is a running meme about there really only being 6 trans men in the whole world and we all know each other. :)
--Jay
I've thought about this, if I was MtF trans post-op I wouldn't even tick off the census orientation "T" designation. Why should I? For all intents and purposes I would consider myself to be a gay (or straight) [F]emale and try to live my life as stealthy as possible.
Maybe it's fear of re-igniting my dysphoria after moving on... or perhaps a sense of pride? Superiority that I've crossed over? "I don't want to be associated with those ->-bleeped-<- cross-dressers any more!"
Could be. Probably.
Quote from: mandonlym on April 29, 2014, 11:42:39 PM
Then his trans gf came along and said, "Don't forget, c**nts are bad for you," then he said, "She only lets me talk to you because you're not trans." That was twelve years ago pre-op and I felt triumphant at the time. Now if that were to happen I would find it sad, like my whole history has been erased. But that's just activist me.
HA! That's great. My BF still says its funny to see the look on my face when everyone calls me miss or young lady. We met when I first started transtioning, which in a way I wish we met just a couple months later since I had barely changed then and I am andro from the door, But, when people used to ever call me sir or anything, I would get all upset and then he'd have to console me and I would cry and leave places. But now that never happens and most of the time now I'm always super happy and beeming. But that's a great story. I hope it happens to me.
Quote from: Jen on April 29, 2014, 11:57:32 PM
Start these topics, I would post in them :). Ofc I kind of come and go and couldn't be counted on to see them, but surely there are others interested in these things? I would actually probably be on here more if there were more topics about things outside of trans issues I am interested in. I too find it's rare to run into such threads and get bored and don't check in for weeks.
Maybe I just will :P
Quote from: aleon515 on April 30, 2014, 12:10:38 AM
OTOH, it might be that there are more *identified* trans women, because you can live as female on the boundaries kind of in a very masculine way. I'm sure a lot of trans guys lived this way in the past, esp. You kind of see a "boom" in trans men and I think that fewer trans guys will live like this in the future. Also since T, allows a lot more trans men to "pass" they end up being stealth, a lot of times.
IDK though, I think T does allow a better transtion outwards, there's still the issue of GCS for trans men, which I really feel bad about. My BF actually brought it up one day. All the sudden he is this fountain of trans knowledge and was talking about trans men and how they can pass better with T but the surgery isn't as good and he kept going on and on about neo-vaginas and how they look just like the real thing and it's so amazing. Like this was out of the blue. It blew my mind. Then I blew him. True story.
Anyhoo, the one thing I noticed is that FTMs seem more willing to still participate outwardly in behaviors that are stereotypically associated with their assigned birth status. Like at this group I go to, haven't been lately, but whatevs, and a lot of the FTMs would still wear makeup and nail polish and stuff. not all of them. Some. And that's great. The only problem I saw is all of them also wanted to be a part of dudebro culture. Why is beyond me. Crap, hipsters are better. Must be a Philly thing. And in dudebro culture painting your nails hot pink is a big no-no.
Quote from: Evelyn K on April 30, 2014, 12:51:06 AM
I've thought about this, if I was MtF trans post-op I wouldn't even tick off the census orientation "T" designation. Why should I? For all intents and purposes I would consider myself to be a gay (or straight) [F]emale and try to live my life as stealthy as possible.
Maybe it's fear of re-igniting my dysphoria after moving on... or perhaps a sense of pride? Superiority that I've crossed over? "I don't want to be associated with those ->-bleeped-<- cross-dressers any more!"
Could be. Probably.
Yeah, after I'm done GCS, I will not put down T. NO WAY. NUH UH.
I dont have any real life trans friends, only know them from website/FB .. I studied everything by myself from small FFS to BAS & SRS (asked a bit of this & that from my friends on FB) :)
Quote from: Joanna Dark on April 30, 2014, 01:01:34 AM
Yeah, after I'm done GCS, I will not put down T. NO WAY. NUH UH.
Oh teh sarcasm! ;D
Quote from: Jen on April 29, 2014, 11:57:32 PM
Start these topics, I would post in them :).
I've started boy dating threads and transition-related things tend to take over pretty quickly. My wacky adventures seem to make for interesting stories among my cis friends, but in a context where a lot of people here are in transition, I tend to come off as overly braggy even to myself. I've never quite figured out how to handle that, whether online or in person.
Quote from: barbie on April 28, 2014, 07:46:59 AM
Transgender people are not tight knit compared with lesbian/gay people. Basically, transgender people are too much diverse in their gender identity and expression, while lesbian/gay people are coherent each other with potential love, and are interested in other people. On the contrary, we are introspective, focusing on ourselves, not to others.
barbie~~
I agree with this, I also think that for the most part, Gay and Lesbian people gather to find partners. It is really the only way. Imagine all trans* only were attracted to other trans*... then we would have a community and our own bars and would identify as a single entity. Instead we transition and melt into the GL or Straight societies to find our partners.
Quote from: Ducks on April 29, 2014, 11:14:59 PM
I ran across some stats from the census but can't find them again... the numbers for the US were 700,000 transgender. What I've seen for percentages is 1:30,000 FtM and 1:10,000 MtF. When I was trying to figure this out in the 80's the stats were 1:100,000 were MtF. I lived in a city of 100,000 and so I figured I was it. I met one woman early in her transition in college and she told me who was cool on faculty and who the surgeons and therapists were. I never really saw her again after that but that was all I needed.
The 1:10,000 number is way too big. With 175 million men in the US, that would mean there were only 17,500 MTF's.
Based on the surgery numbers and census data, it's something more like 2-400,000 MTF's in the US. So that would mean that the ratio is more like 1:700 or so.
Psychologists estimate that as many as 5% of people are transgender in some way. That seems high, but who knows?
It's easy to think that there aren't that many transgender people because we're all hiding. Before transition, we don't want people to know. And after transition, more often than not we go stealth.
Quote from: katiej on May 01, 2014, 12:50:52 AM
The 1:10,000 number is way too big. With 175 million men in the US, that would mean there were only 17,500 MTF's.
Based on the surgery numbers and census data, it's something more like 2-400,000 MTF's in the US. So that would mean that the ratio is more like 1:700 or so.
Psychologists estimate that as many as 5% of people are transgender in some way. That seems high, but who knows?
It's easy to think that there aren't that many transgender people because we're all hiding. Before transition, we don't want people to know. And after transition, more often than not we go stealth.
I agree the numbers are under reported, as for ratio of trans per births, I agree it seems ridiculously low and wouldn't meet the 700,000 number in the study from 2011. I think they're just guessing anyway :)
Quote from: Ducks on May 01, 2014, 01:06:59 AM
I agree the numbers are under reported, as for ratio of trans per births, I agree it seems ridiculously low and wouldn't meet the 700,000 number in the study from 2011. I think they're just guessing anyway :)
If the 700k is accurate and represents men and women, it would mean 1:500 people is trans. The studies seem to all combine SRS surgery numbers and data from psychologists. It isn't like they're expecting people to indicate trans on their census card. It's using known data and statistical analysis, and it's relatively reliable.
Quote from: kelly_aus on April 26, 2014, 10:06:03 PM
I don't think we are a tight knit community at all. The local community here in Adelaide sure has it's issues and recent events here have shown some division..
I have almost nothing to do with the trans community except online. Here, a chat I help Mod and some FB stuff.. Why? Little in common apart from being trans.. And, even then, my attitude towards being trans is way different to most.. So I just wandered off and got on with my life.. I do see others sometimes when I'm out and about, but I don't make a habit of it.. I've gotten lost in a sea of lesbians - which was always kind of the aim..
I'm in a very similar situation, all the more so as I find the French TG community way too shrill, factious and radical for my comfort as an intrinsically very moderate person. I've had way more contact with the lesbian community with quite a few really fun night's out in Paris.
I'm a lot more comfortable with the tone of the exchanges here, far less political and more about coping with the personal challenges of transitioning. Even here though, I am wary of getting too involved as any small community such as this can easily become very inward looking while I believe our real challenge is to engage openly with the rest of the world.
At work, where I have a very high visibility leadership position (my bio is even on our corporate web site, at last as a woman..), I'm the first trans person most people have ever known and probably ever will know. I see this as an opportunity to change the way people perceive trans people in general ie. away from the drag queen and/or sex worker stereotype which is still very prevalent to the idea that apart from being trans, a trans woman is pretty much like anyone else.
I won't be there much longer but I think people will remember me for quite a while and I hope that there will be more positive memories than negative...
Donna
P.S. All of that being said, I really regret that the TG community is not more cohesive as, in France at least, I can see just how damaging this is regarding advancement of our basic rights. For example there are a few law-makers who have really tried to get laws passed to make it easier to get a Civil Identity Change (after a promising start, my own procedure has been going nowhere since last November and I no longer have any idea if and when it will be processed) but since there are a very large number of associations claiming to represent the TG community, who agree on nothing and who are often so radical that they almost sound like sects , these well intentioned law-makers mostly just get abuse and after a while give up... Painful to observe!
I live in northern Minnesota, and there is a small (dozen or so) group of trans* folk who meet a couple times each month and are very supportive of one another. I've found a much broader support group in the BDSM community, however. There are plenty of gender non-conformists in the BDSM community, and I find that most kinky folk are much less anxious about interacting with trans* folks. Then again, if you aren't kinky as well, then maybe it's a bit too uncomfortable for "vanilla" trans* folks. Lucky for me, I have support from friends in both circles.
Quote from: Will on May 01, 2014, 12:40:00 PM
I live in northern Minnesota, and there is a small (dozen or so) group of trans* folk who meet a couple times each month and are very supportive of one another. I've found a much broader support group in the BDSM community, however. There are plenty of gender non-conformists in the BDSM community, and I find that most kinky folk are much less anxious about interacting with trans* folks. Then again, if you aren't kinky as well, then maybe it's a bit too uncomfortable for "vanilla" trans* folks. Lucky for me, I have support from friends in both circles.
Will, I am from northern MN originally - so glad to hear it has gotten better. Be well!
Quote from: Donna E on May 01, 2014, 04:27:57 AM
I'm in a very similar situation, all the more so as I find the French TG community way too shrill, factious and radical for my comfort as an intrinsically very moderate person. I've had way more contact with the lesbian community with quite a few really fun night's out in Paris.
I'm a lot more comfortable with the tone of the exchanges here, far less political and more about coping with the personal challenges of transitioning. Even here though, I am wary of getting too involved as any small community such as this can easily become very inward looking while I believe our real challenge is to engage openly with the rest of the world.
At work, where I have a very high visibility leadership position (my bio is even on our corporate web site, at last as a woman..), I'm the first trans person most people have ever known and probably ever will know. I see this as an opportunity to change the way people perceive trans people in general ie. away from the drag queen and/or sex worker stereotype which is still very prevalent to the idea that apart from being trans, a trans woman is pretty much like anyone else.
I won't be there much longer but I think people will remember me for quite a while and I hope that there will be more positive memories than negative...
Donna
P.S. All of that being said, I really regret that the TG community is not more cohesive as, in France at least, I can see just how damaging this is regarding advancement of our basic rights. For example there are a few law-makers who have really tried to get laws passed to make it easier to get a Civil Identity Change (after a promising start, my own procedure has been going nowhere since last November and I no longer have any idea if and when it will be processed) but since there are a very large number of associations claiming to represent the TG community, who agree on nothing and who are often so radical that they almost sound like sects , these well intentioned law-makers mostly just get abuse and after a while give up... Painful to observe!
Donna, you are inspirational! I really believe your competence and accomplished life will serve to break down walls in your country. It takes people who are not easily marginalized by the mainstream to change the discussion, it isn't only the attention seekers who make a difference. You Go Girl!!
There's another reason I've heard for not having a very easily identifiable community: safety.
I've heard this idea sometimes raised among friends: "gay/lesbian people have bars or real-life meeting places, why don't we do that for trans* people?". The answer that usually comes up is "that would be the biggest target EVER". I can't say I agree with this logic too much; after all, wasn't every marginalized group in that position once?
So we meet surreptitiously, online, or only in support groups. Or we usurp gay/lesbian meeting places, where we are a minority and are at best tolerated.