Hi!
I feel like I am getting closer and closer to making the decision to transition and I had a couple questions about what I should do about my weight. I want to lose about 40 lbs, but I was wondering if it is something I should do before or after I would get on hormones.
I know once i am on hormones, it will be harder to lose because of the slowed metabolism, but I also wondered if I should keep some weight on for fat redistribution purposes. When I look at women that I would like to be like, they are curvy, not super thin. I don't want to end up with a pancake butt and no hips. Does the fat redistribution from hormone therapy move much fat to those areas anyway or is there usually a need for cosmetic work to really make those parts look womanly? What are your experiences? Are there any other considerations I should be thinking about?
Thanks for any help!
Kylie
Weight-loss comes off evenly everywhere in a "last in, first out" way because of the way the fat metabolism system works. Where your body choses to put new or replenish existing fat cells might be influenced by hormone tweaking, but since you are losing weight, you aren't giving it much to work with, so results will probably be marginal.
Your best bet is to lose as much weight as you (responsibly, dont go crazy) can before starting, then when you start, eat normal with moderate exercise and your body will do what it does.
+1
I'd like to add that body fat will not literally redistribute itself. Which is to say that if you are carrying extra fat in your belly or gut area, it will not migrate to your breasts or hips or anywhere else. Once you've been on HRT long enough your body will begin to deposit new fat cells in typically female areas (hips/butt/breasts/etc).
Also, yeah, what James said for sure!
Thanks so much for the input! I thought it did kind of migrate to the hips, butt and thighs...glad y'all set me straight! I certainly do not want fat in the places I have it if/when I transition. I will def be hitting the gym!
I'm four months on hormones. My body responds to what I eat and how I exercise on a pretty daily basis. I measure my body and weight daily. If I eat moderately and exercise I can wake up 1 kilo lighter and my belly a centimeter smaller. If I eat big meals it puffs up 5 centimeters and I can gain 4 kilograms in one day.
So I keep fluctuating between being able to eat moderately and losing weight and then eventually eating a lot in one or two days and getting back to square one.
And I really don't feel like there is any tendency to burn my waist fat. Actually, I don't have to feel. It shows up on the results each day. My waist does trim if I eat moderately and exercise, but very slowly compared to how fast my belly changes. The belly size also plateaus at a certain size under which it again takes longer to lose it.
Also, when I lose weight, I lose weight straight away on my butt. I don't measure my thighs. Don't care about them. That is, I lose fat from my butt before I lose weight from my tummy and I lose weight from my tummy before I lose weight from my waist. Everything else about my body is and always has been thin - which makes my belly stick out that much more whenever I do gain weight.
Basically it seems my body wants me to grow a ginormous belly before I can see fat go anywhere else and my waist fat isn't going anywhere if I do that - and my tiny breasts disappear when the belly grows. At least, that's how it is for me so far.
So for now the best strategy for me to feminize my body is to keep losing weight, since it trims my waist and allows my breast to stick out compared to my belly eventually but it takes a lot of discipline and it only takes one day of losing my discipline to lose my progress.
Just sharing my own mileage.
It takes your body some time (a couple of days IIRC) to squirrel away carbs in fat cells. Your belly's apparent size is also how full your intestinal system is and how hydrated you are. That's why it seems to immediately swell when you eat. My weight also fluctuates by a couple of kilos over the day. You want to take the mean average between your high and low weights and get that to trend downward. Then you know you are making progress. Checking the scale hourly will only annoy and discourage you.
Thanks for the input Ruth! What I am getting from all this is to lose as much weight before hormones as possible since it will be easier and because the fat will stay where it is if I don't.
I just remembered an unfortunate fact from my A&P classes that fat cells expand, shrink and multiply, but they never decrease in number >:(, so I will always probably gain back in the male areas more quickly because the abundance of fat cells are already there unless i got lipo. Wow, depressing. I'm going to have to sell off everything I own if I choose to go down this road. Strangely, I have a feeling that it would all be worth it if I had to.
Actually fat cells will go away, but it takes a while, 6 months to a year.
As Ruth said, and as is mentioned elsewhere, the key is consistent, steady calorie intake reduction. Starving and then gorging is worse than useless, it is actually counter productive.
I'd recommend to lose as much weight as possible beforehand. I've had a harder time losing weight the further into everything that I go. It's possible and you will lose weight if you make the effort, but it's not so simple with the metabolism shift and all the other body changes.
So before HRT, the plan should be to strip away as much "male" fat as humanely possible (safely, of course), even to well below your target weight, so that once the HRT enters the equation the weight is put back on where it's supposed to be on a female body?
Or, to put it more bluntly, if you start HRT looking like a chubby guy, you'll still look like a chubby guy months, if not years, later?
And would this mean that a skinny guy going on HRT and then trying to gain weight should have more noticeable results than a plump guy who is trying to lose weight on HRT?
It's not that simple or clear cut. It depends on each person. A chubby guy on HRT could become a chubby (or even fat) girl. A skinny guy could... still look like a skinny guy if their body does not respond strongly to estrogen.
I lost 24 kg (53 lbs) before I started HRT, because I knew I will put on some weight and I know it is faster and easier to put directly on the right places, than to wait for a fat redistribution to do the job. I was 91 kg (200 lbs) year and a half before HRT and succesfully became 67 kg (148 lbs) on the first day of HRT. I knew, that I had to drop some more weight, but I needed to start HRT, so I had no time, because I lost too many years of waiting and preparing... Then, for 5-6 months on HRT I gained 13 kg (29 lbs) and couldn't drop any, no matter the dieting, exercising, etc... The bad thing is, that I had lot of belly fat, love handles and other typically male pattern fat, which made me pretty ugly picture at my 6th month of HRT - I was feminized to some degree, too slow metabolism, bad hair and male pattern fat... I was so desperated about the weight, that I was in constant depression... I stopped the Androcur intake and finally stopped gaining weight, but for months I still wasn't able to drop even 1 kg... After my 1st year on HRT, I started micronized progesterone and finally things started to work like they should be - new feminizing process started, I dropped some weight and my body started to shape into a feminine silhuette. I am still few kilos more, than my starting point, but now things are working and I finally start to look like a woman for real... The bad thing is that it took 14 months to reach to this point and I've been stuck several times, thinking that my feminization was ended...
Bottom line - It would be easier for me, if I dropped more weight before HRT, so don't bother later about the places I gain fat and how to reshape my body with so slowered metabolism.
Here is some very important information about how fat redistribution works:
All cells in the body that are not 'sick' will eventually 'die' and any cell which cannot or will not self-destruct is called cancer. Fat cells are just like other cells, and they will not stay on your body forever. When someone has a muffin top, it is not the same one from 20 years ago - it is in the same place, but the fat cells themselves are different.
A fat cell will never 'move' on your body, but as they break down and are re-stored, they can be stored in the thighs/butt for women or belly for men. If you wait for hormones to do this, you are waiting for all of those cells to die and then energy to be stored in different places. You can GREATLY speed things up by breaking them down through exercise!
Your body gets energy all throughout the day from one of two sources: carbs, or stored body fat. Your body cannot take the fat or protein in food and use it directly as energy - it must convert protein or fat in food into stored body fat. For that reason alone, eating the same amount of food but eating less carbs and more protein and fats (think nuts and olive oil) will cause you to burn more body fat. This will make you lose weight, because a bit of the energy in food is lost when it is converted to stored body fat, and that adds up over time.
One of the best things to do is to wake up every single morning and take a one hour walk (30 minutes if you simply cannot do one hour). Do not drink anything except water or black coffee before doing this. Remember, you're doing this because with no carbs in your stomach from the overnight fasting during sleep, your body will be forced to burn stored body fat for energy!
On your new hormone regimen, you should store all new fat in typically female places, and this way you can burn off fat on the torso. If you're taking progesterone as part of your regimen, this will accelerate the loss of stomach fat. If you're taking estrogen only, speak with your doctor about this concern and ask them to prescribe both so that you can get the female figure that you desire!
Wow! Unbelievably helpful! Thanks!
You're welcome Kylie :)
If you'd like any more information on burning fat or how and why it ends up stored differently for men and women, the Lyle MacDonald's Fat Burning Solution is an excellent book with all of this information and more.
Thanks, I will def check it out! One last question, does it have to be walking or will any cardio do? I would rather be burning more calories, an hour is a long time to put in for so few calories burned. Is it something about the heart rate zone?
I've come across several people who lost lots of weight and reached an ideal weight while improving their sense of well-being on very little carb to no carb and only fat and protein, in a ratio of 70-85% fat to 15-30% protein. Fat is mostly animal fat. Their triglycerides were much improved as were their HDL, both markers of cardiovascular risk. This is not just a diet but a lifestyle change that is maintained forever. It seems to work great for some and not work as great for others. Always an option, just in case...Several traditional cultures ate that way (the Masai people in Africa, The Inuits in the Arctic, etc) and thrived on this diet, including explorers from the Western world who ate the same when living with them and even when they came back to their home country and still continued eating this way. Steffanson (Viljamur) is an example of this.
Quote from: KayXo on May 02, 2014, 01:40:01 PM
I've come across several people who lost lots of weight and reached an ideal weight while improving their sense of well-being on very little carb to no carb and only fat and protein, in a ratio of 70-85% fat to 15-30% protein. Fat is mostly animal fat.
I am actually vegan now so unfortunately I cannot reach those percentages unless all I ate were nuts. Incidentally, I would probably love that diet!..........but I don't think it would be too healthy.
I am usually at about 55-65% carbs, 30-35% fat and 8-12% protein. Almost all of my carbs are from unprocessed sources, and for the most part I am only taking in sugar that exists naturally in food. I have not been sick once since I went vegan and I have never felt better in my adult life, so I don't want to fiddle with that too much. Plus it was done for ethical considerations so I wouldn't really feel right going back on it to suit my looks.
The worst thing about it is that it makes it sooooo difficult for me to find cute shoes :( I have actually considered breaking over a pair of cute riding boots, but I stayed strong! Still think about them longingly from time to time though *sigh*
I am not worried about my long term weight as my diet and lifestyle should drop my weight down and keep it there over time. After hearing everyone's input though, I would like to lose 40-50 lbs fast, or before October which is when I am telling myself that I need to make the decision whether or not I am going to start hormones and really do this for myself.
Quote from: KayXo on May 02, 2014, 01:40:01 PM
I've come across several people who lost lots of weight and reached an ideal weight while improving their sense of well-being on very little carb to no carb and only fat and protein, in a ratio of 70-85% fat to 15-30% protein. Fat is mostly animal fat. Their triglycerides were much improved as were their HDL, both markers of cardiovascular risk. This is not just a diet but a lifestyle change that is maintained forever. It seems to work great for some and not work as great for others. Always an option, just in case...Several traditional cultures ate that way (the Masai people in Africa, The Inuits in the Arctic, etc) and thrived on this diet, including explorers from the Western world who ate the same when living with them and even when they came back to their home country and still continued eating this way. Steffanson (Viljamur) is an example of this.
My diet is exactly the same thing and I am very happy with the results - I feel good, look good, my health state got better, also I don't need to count calories and stay hungry all the time :) I succeded to drop a few kilos even in my hardest period, when I was stuck after a significant weight gain due to the hormones and wasn't able to drop any weight for months, so it is the right thing for me :)
I cant agree more with what ChaoticTribe said! I've been doing basically what he suggested since new year and I've lost a whopping 4 stone since then by walking to work in a morning and having breakfast when I get there rather than before. II have changed my diet slightly but its mostly just been reducing portion sizes and cutting out things like chocolate and take aways (I allow myself one of each a month)
Quote from: JamesG on April 27, 2014, 11:46:23 PM
Weight-loss comes off evenly everywhere in a "last in, first out" way because of the way the fat metabolism system works. Where your body choses to put new or replenish existing fat cells might be influenced by hormone tweaking, but since you are losing weight, you aren't giving it much to work with, so results will probably be marginal.
Your best bet is to lose as much weight as you (responsibly, dont go crazy) can before starting, then when you start, eat normal with moderate exercise and your body will do what it does.
I'm a 100 pounds at 5' 6" tall fully clothed which is probably way too thin. So now that I'm on estrogen how long will it take to see fat accumilation in the typical female areas? I'm already seeing facial changes and have some very small breasts but I want to gain wait in the thighs and buttocks.
No telling. Everyone is different, and develop differntly. How many calories are you taking in, whats your metabolism, exercise rate? ect.ect... That said, you are petty close to the ideal for fem. Super skinny girls dont usually have big butts.
Quote from: JamesG on May 01, 2014, 07:29:13 AM
It's not that simple or clear cut. It depends on each person. A chubby guy on HRT could become a chubby (or even fat) girl. A skinny guy could... still look like a skinny guy if their body does not respond strongly to estrogen.
I'm an example of the skinny person whose body shape insists on being male thin, not female thin. Eat moderately all the time? Not sure I can do that.
I got used to eating in a way where I can not eat for a while, and then when I do eat, I feel physically satisfied quickly but emotionally starting to eat makes me want to put more and more things in my mouth. So I can have days where I eat nothing and days when I eat three meals in one go. Most of the time I eat once a day. It's a big challenge for me getting used to eating more meals but smaller portions because of how I got used to living, but I am going to try.
Kylie, I'm vegan too. I also exercise frequently several times a week.
Regarding the belly thing being just fluids and food being digested, the thing is that it's not just the tummy that changes daily. It's also the butt and the waist. So doesn't that indicate it's not just stuff left in the tummy?
Also, regarding checking the scale hourly - I don't care about my weight so much... my weight is always fine no matter how much it shifts. I'm 180cm tall and it shifts between 62kg and 67kg.
What I care about and what I measure every day is my proportions, and what I notice constantly changing according to what I eat and how much I exercise is my waist width, my belly width and my butt width.
If your old like me, the belly fat otherwise known as the gut, will stay. Reducing sugars in your diet may help. The natural sugars in the fruits is mainly glucose, not the type of sugar that contributes to the gut. Keep away from the sodas, there is about a 1/4 cup of sugar in that 12 oz. can, fruit drinks no different! Check the ingredient labels. My weight distrubution had some fat with the subcultaneous lead (Pb) removed from the hands from working aggressively with electronic PC boards in the repair shop and the flushing effects of the Spiro removed the lead from my system. That returned the feeling in both hands to about 60% from normal. My hip area is larger from this redistrubution. More info on my health status elsewhere in the HRT subject area.
Joelene
I got breasts and butt/thighs and a full face but I weigh 160 lbs (73 kilos) at 5'6 ½. Too skinny and you won't get those curves.
My gut has slimmed down a lot since switching to injectable estrogen versus oral and it seems to me, it's because there is MUCH less water retention than before. Progesterone has also helped with this.
Just wanted to say thank you to everyone who has posted on this topic as this is something I have researched but needed to know what actual results were. I chose to loose weight first before starting HRT, and it sounds like I made the right decision to do it that way... Still have a ways to go on the weight loss, but am averaging 2-4 lbs. a week with a no/low carb. diet and three day a week in the gym. Still, the wait is killing me... LOL Pardon the pun.
Awesome Ruth! Always nice to meet another! I saw someone posted on another thread that they consume foods with cholesterol when they take their hormones because it is maximizes their effects. Did your endo say anything to you about this? I hope this isn't the case. Does your endo know about your diet, and if so, is there anything special you have to do?
Quote from: Veronica M on May 06, 2014, 01:40:42 PM
Still have a ways to go on the weight loss, but am averaging 2-4 lbs. a week with a no/low carb.
2-4lbs a week! That is awesome Veronica! Congrats! It almost makes up for that horrible pun :)
I've got to tell you, as someone who has been struggling to lose weight as I've gone on in HRT, (I started hormones at 270 lbs, now down to 217,) I have some tips to share about the process.
First of all, fat does not "redistribute." Basically, the way that hormones create more feminine curves is that every year 10% of the body's fat cells die and are replaced. And under the influence of hormones, the new fat cells are more likely to grow in certain gender-specific areas like the breasts and hips. It's this creation of new fat cells that gives you curves. When you lose weight, you are not killing your fat cells, you are merely deflating them. So there is no remedy whatsoever to putting on curves faster through either weight loss or weight gain. The only remedy is time... waiting for the body's slow slow process of death and rebirth to work its magic. (And also exercise. Do butt-building and waist-trimming exercises. Those can definitely help.)
Secondly, once you're on T-blockers and estrogen, losing weight will become a bit more difficult. As the body's muscle mass decreases, losing weight becomes more difficult because your metabolism slows down. Pre-HRT, I lost like 50 lbs over the course of a summer (paleo diet,) while barely even trying. I cheated a LOT and still lost weight. But now that I've been basically eating the same diet that I did to lose that weight as a guy, cheating the exact same amount, it's taken me three months just to lose 18 lbs. I have to stick to the diet twice as rigorously to lose half the amount of weight.
Thirdly, do NOT go off the diet and go on a weight-gain diet once you're on HRT, assuming that all the fat will now go into female areas. It won't. When you gain weight, it distributes the weight evenly among the body's already-existing fat cells. And therefore, you'll basically just be putting it right back where you lost it. The only remedy to getting curves is time. Just letting the body do its thing, create the new fat cells where it needs to create them over the course of months and years. I did try going on a weight-gaining feminization diet, and unfortunately all of the fat just went right back to my stomach.
Fourthly, go on a paleo diet. Trust me, you'll be grateful. You'll feel better, you'll lose a ton of weight, and your body and mind will become VERY healthy.
Again... just have patience, and it will work out. I recommend losing the weight first, because it will be easier plus then you'll have less residual male fat to fight against when the new female fat starts coming in.
My endo didn't mention cholesterol but my mom keeps telling me it's not healthy that I have the amount of HDL cholesterol I have. As far as clinical medicine, my cholestrol situation is marvelous. My mom who studies nutrition claims it's too little and said I should eat coconut oil and avocado.
The endo said "I'll go through the effects of hormones one more time, just in case. Hormones redistribute fat, of which you have none..."
Which is actually pretty true everywhere except my belly and waist :(
So I was pretty confused what I should do, whether I should try to gain weight or lose weight... I don't know about years from now, but when I manage to eat small amounts of food and exercise every day, I can see results of my tummy and waist trimming a lot within two weeks but it's rare for me to hold up eating such small amounts for that long. I only managed keeping it up for two weeks once and for one day I was happy then I gorged myself and lost all the progress in one day.
Short term it doesn't seem my body responds well to eating heftily at all, it puts it right back where I don't want it to be.
But I can't see myself long term holding up three small meals a day, I am so used to eating a big meal once I start eating.
Clinically the blood results also showed I am just above normal protein levels, so maybe I'm not eating too much after all... I am lacking folic acid and B12 but the supplements I'm taking are showing improvement with each blood test.
As for Paleo diet, I like cooked food too much and I will never eat any meat or dairy for ideological reasons.
Paleo diet is not raw food and dairy is actually avoided. As to eating meat, you can just stick to eggs.
The reason your folic acid and B12 may be low is because you don't eat meat and dairy. Ideological, I understand but be careful with your health please. Things seem to be under control though, with supplements and improving so I'm glad. :)
I also came across info that taking estradiol may reduce folic acid (and possibly iron). And even certain B vitamins. I'm not sure if taking it non-orally versus orally makes a difference. I personally feel better since going non-oral. Perhaps taking a standard multivitamin could be worthwhile.
I don't eat eggs either for the same ideological reasons - it supports the backbone of an industry that abuses animals. I don't eat animal products at all. Including fish, which I don't understand why there is seperation as if fish aren't animals. Just because they have a less complex neural system than mammals doesn't mean they don't live, breathe and move and therefore are animals just like mammals.
If I'm missing something in my body, it means I didn't work hard enough to find plant sources for it. Everything can be found in plants, except B12 - which is often injected into animal food anyway because the bacteria that makes it is killed by antibiotics. So B12 is something people take as an additive whether they are vegan or not, and you don't need much of it so supplementing B12 is more than enough if one is consistent with it.
And if I'm too lazy to find the plant source, I'll just take the supplement. Not worth supporting animal abuse for me to get my nutrients - especially since the things I am missing are very specific and not a whole bunch of things. If I don't get enough protein I'll adjust and eat more accordingly.
Quote from: Ruth Ruthless on May 08, 2014, 01:43:14 AM
I don't eat eggs either for the same ideological reasons - it supports the backbone of an industry that abuses animals. I don't eat animal products at all. Including fish, which I don't understand why there is seperation as if fish aren't animals. Just because they have a less complex neural system than mammals doesn't mean they don't live, breathe and move and therefore are animals just like mammals.
I understand your reason but some farms actually treat their animals really well and are organic, no antibiotics, hormones, etc. Small farms. I used to buy from such farms. A little more expensive but more animal-friendly and more natural.
Also, do realize that just as animals are living beings, so are plants. Just as alive, even though it doesn't appear to be so. Everything that we eat is a living being and to survive, we need to eat life, or else we become life for worms and so on. It's just recycled energy in the end, all part of the same and only energy.
Quote from: Ruth Ruthless on May 08, 2014, 01:43:14 AMIf I'm missing something in my body, it means I didn't work hard enough to find plant sources for it. Everything can be found in plants, except B12 - which is often injected into animal food anyway because the bacteria that makes it is killed by antibiotics. So B12 is something people take as an additive whether they are vegan or not, and you don't need much of it so supplementing B12 is more than enough if one is consistent with it.
Interesting about the B12 injected into animal food because of antibiotics. I wouldn't be surprised. I do know that when I mostly ate meat, years ago, my B12 levels were through the roof, higher than the normal range. But, the surprising thing was my iron was LOW, under normal range. I'm still puzzled to this day. And I ate organ meats too like liver.
Assuming that on their way to slaughter they live in a five star hotel they still get slaughtered in the end.
Plants live but do not have a neural system at all and more plants are consumed indirectly by the animals we eat. For each amount of meat we eat we need to feed the animal plants, water for the plants, land for the plants, water for the animals and water to wash the meat. The plants and water that go into that meat can be consumed more efficiently to a lesser degree directly.
So eating plants is less suffering because they have no neural system.
It's less suffering because we use less plants when eaten directly.
Using crops more efficiently and water where it's needed reduces suffering due to scarce resources.
And finally humans have no problem getting all the nutrients they need from non animal sources so why not get all these benefits? Sure you need to watch what you eat but so do animal product consumers.
FYI, B-12 comes from bacteria and no where else unless it's a supplement according to my doctor. Most people in my region have a deficiency because we've become to fanatical about cleaning food, admittedly with good reason given pesticides.
Ruth, have you considered buying a chicken or two and looking after them in your yard? Serious question. Then you'd be able to eat the eggs and the hens would be very happy with such a caring human-mother. Or find a local farmer who keeps hens and sells the eggs?
I too try to avoid meat when I can, but I do eat eggs. Not the nasty ones from the battery farms with those horrible cages and sick birds and psychopathic workers, but organic vegetarian-fed free-range eggs. Not a perfect solution though - I'm sure they still aren't particularly happy animals :(.
Why bother when I can get what I need from non animal sources? That's a lot more work for no gain and I don't have room to keep those.
It's also inefficient as stated before since I need to feed the chicken more than it feeds me.
Quote from: Dee Marshall on May 08, 2014, 08:54:37 AM
FYI, B-12 comes from bacteria
Bacteria or not, my B12 levels were above normal range when I ate important quantities of meat, including organ meats. But, as I mentioned before, my iron was low which I found VERY strange!
My B12 levels and all of my bloodwork are normal, but I was taking a B12 supplement so I don't know if I would be deficient without it. I would personally eat meat before i would eat anything that contained factory farmed eggs. The conditions that those egg laying hens are forced to live in is completely immoral.
Regardless of the fat you push around, you can't change your body type (ectomorph, endomorph and mesomorph) or shape (triangle, rectangle pear and apple). There just isn't much difference between male and female ectomorph rectangles like me- before or after HRT. At 5'10" 146 pounds, 36A, I'm a flatchested bean pole regardless of what I eat or don't eat. Change my clothes and people see what they want to see.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi739.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fxx37%2Fnymphblossom%2FBodyComp.jpg&hash=206f520d2efdcdd10faae69e4f87c51def31b64d)
Actually in that picture, you are highlighting how important posture is. Even discounting that your weight isn't the same in the two pics. If you flipped the clothes around on the two pics, they would look odd.
Actually my weight is identical in both pictures (taken a few weeks apart last summer, 3 1/2 years into a transition level HRT regimen). My female alter's different mannerisms aside, the picture shows that the same body can be perceived as male or female quite easily.
Well then I guess that swimsuit is nicely slimming. :angel:
Quote from: Virginia on May 10, 2014, 09:26:36 PM
the picture shows that the same body can be perceived as male or female quite easily.
As long as that body falls within the normal range for both where they overlap. In that ectomorphs have a significant advantage when transitioning. Sadly there is no correlation with body type and gender dysphoria....