Just had a meeting with my pastor from a Baptist church. He first went over the standard things like if I'm going to die, how do I know that I'm going to heaven, and then he surprised me and told me that he knows that I'm a cross-dresser. But at least it doesn't bother him, because he's been watching me over the past few weeks and he's noticed that I'm not trying to glamorize myself but am just looking for my space when I'm there. Then he told me that some of the women from the congregation have said something to him about me using the washrooms, so I'll have to refrain from using those.
Now I've been going to this church for the past four months and I really thought everything was going well and that I was accepted as a 'woman'. Guess I was wrong. :( I guess I'll still attend the women's bible study, since I'm still a part of that group. The only thing that really puzzles me is how he found out my male name. ???
You were presenting as a woman at a Baptist church? That is pretty brave...
Obviously I wasn't there! So I know nothing. But from reading what you wrote down it doesn't sound like your pastor is outing you?
It sounds like he may be fine with it and accepting but he's under pressure by dick head women who go to the church who aren't accepting? ("Then he told me that some of the women from the congregation have said something to him about me using the washrooms, so I'll have to refrain from using those. ")
Just like again I wanna say I know nothing about the situation but really wanted to point out that the pastor isn't necessarily a twat, he may be in such a difficult position, he him self may accept you or if he doesn't agree with what you're doing he accepts you have your own opinion or what ever, but he may have OTHER people putting pressure on him to do something about it as he is the Pastor? Or maybe he's trying to keep the peace?
Quote from: Blue Rabbit on May 01, 2014, 10:22:32 AM
Obviously I wasn't there! So I know nothing. But from reading what you wrote down it doesn't sound like your pastor is outing you?
It sounds like he may be fine with it and accepting but he's under pressure by dick head women who go to the church who aren't accepting? ("Then he told me that some of the women from the congregation have said something to him about me using the washrooms, so I'll have to refrain from using those. ")
Just like again I wanna say I know nothing about the situation but really wanted to point out that the pastor isn't necessarily a twat, he may be in such a difficult position, he him self may accept you or if he doesn't agree with what you're doing he accepts you have your own opinion or what ever, but he may have OTHER people putting pressure on him to do something about it as he is the Pastor? Or maybe he's trying to keep the peace?
Yeah, I wasn't sure which way it went either. In any case, I hope he is accepting of you and won't out you to other members of the church. If that's the case, then it's cool that this all happened at a Baptist church. Gives me faith in humanity.
No matter what the case this is unfair on you and wrong -_- But yea just remember ya pastor might be in a difficult position. "Don't kill the messenger"
The fact you were brave enough to go (and on a regular basis too) tells me that you really need that in your life.
One thing I will suggest for you to watch for is for people (pastor especially) trying to make you feel guilty for who you are or embarrassing you. They don't do it overtly, it's very subtle. Maybe they enquire about your parents (looking for a button to push) or ask pointed questions about why you like dressing "like" a girl and not "as" a girl. These are subtle things that most people don't recognize unless they're in the "people business" -psycologists, pastors, marketing people, 6-figure sales people, speech writers, lawyers, politicians and con-men. People know this as "spin," we refer to this as having the "right language." It's not lying, its just reinforcing your perspective on the opinion they want you to focus on. I'm in marketing so I "see" it when it happens. Having the right language can also be used to reenforce a good and positive mindset too. Tony Robins touches on this in some of his self-help stuff, I YouTube him when I feel especially lost. He's such a sweetheart, not my type though.
If you notice you feel especially guilty for being trans, get out of there. God loves you the way you are.
I'd find a new church. There's clearly misinformed gossip among the women and creepy covert investigations under the surface here, and the pastor may be telling you, very gently, that you're not welcome anymore.
Are there no LGBT-friendly churches in your vicinity?
Quote from: __________ on May 01, 2014, 12:06:19 PM
I'd find a new church. There's clearly misinformed gossip among the women and creepy covert investigations under the surface here, and the pastor may be telling you, very gently, that you're not welcome anymore.
Are there no LGBT-friendly churches in your vicinity?
This^
Such places do exist.
The preacher at our church starts out every service with these words:
QuoteNo matter who you are, no matter where you're from, no matter who you love, no matter what path you have traveled to get to this place in your life, you are welcome here.
I always get chills when I hear it.
Quote from: JamesG on May 01, 2014, 10:14:22 AM
You were presenting as a woman at a Baptist church? That is pretty brave...
Yeah. I've been doing that since January and I haven't had any problems. Total acceptance! :) But it's strange that you say that it's 'brave', because when I told my therapist of what I had done, he said the same thing.
Quote from: Blue Rabbit on May 01, 2014, 10:22:32 AM
Obviously I wasn't there! So I know nothing. But from reading what you wrote down it doesn't sound like your pastor is outing you?
It sounds like he may be fine with it and accepting but he's under pressure by dick head women who go to the church who aren't accepting? ("Then he told me that some of the women from the congregation have said something to him about me using the washrooms, so I'll have to refrain from using those. ")
Just like again I wanna say I know nothing about the situation but really wanted to point out that the pastor isn't necessarily a twat, he may be in such a difficult position, he himself may accept you or if he doesn't agree with what you're doing he accepts you have your own opinion or what ever, but he may have OTHER people putting pressure on him to do something about it as he is the Pastor? Or maybe he's trying to keep the peace?
I may have misquoted myself in saying that he 'outed' me. But he had said that he is fine with the way that I wanna be even though he doesn't accept it{because of the fact that I'll never be a woman} but yes, he's getting pressure form the women of the congregation for using the washroom. So as long as I refrain from using the women's washroom, everything will be peachy keen. :)
I personally feel that it was handled better this time instead of last time at my previous church, where I had used the women's room once, and I had been reprimanded for it immediately and then my pastor called me about it to reprimanded me more.
Quote from: learningtolive on May 01, 2014, 11:02:12 AM
Yeah, I wasn't sure which way it went either. In any case, I hope he is accepting of you and won't out you to other members of the church. If that's the case, then it's cool that this all happened at a Baptist church. Gives me faith in humanity.
I think that some of the members of my bible study know that I'm a transsexual, because once or twice they've had to speak to me about the way I was sitting when I was wearing a short dress. LOL! But tell me though, what's up with the Baptist church and the LBGT's? Have I missed something?
Quote from: Blue Rabbit on May 01, 2014, 11:13:27 AM
No matter what the case this is unfair on you and wrong -_- But yea just remember ya pastor might be in a difficult position. "Don't kill the messenger"
Like I said before, I thought it was nice that he took me aside and had a private meeting with me instead of doing this after church. :)
Quote from: kate on May 01, 2014, 11:13:47 AM
Tbh it sounds like he knew without the other women coming to see him. If he referred to you as a cross-dresser, maybe at the next opportunity you have mention that you are transgender to him? It might help with using the correct washroom facilities and for other people to have more understanding.
I had corrected him, but he just told me that 'TRANSSEXUAL' was the technical term that is being used. He's at least allowed me to use his washroom if the need arises. There must have been something though that must have tipped him off, because I'm very careful in my mannerisms.
Quote from: Kova V on May 01, 2014, 11:43:02 AM
The fact you were brave enough to go (and on a regular basis too) tells me that you really need that in your life.
One thing I will suggest for you to watch for is for people (pastor especially) trying to make you feel guilty for who you are or embarrassing you. They don't do it overtly, it's very subtle. Maybe they enquire about your parents (looking for a button to push) or ask pointed questions about why you like dressing "like" a girl and not "as" a girl. These are subtle things that most people don't recognize unless they're in the "people business" -psycologists, pastors, marketing people, 6-figure sales people, speech writers, lawyers, politicians and con-men. People know this as "spin," we refer to this as having the "right language." It's not lying, its just reinforcing your perspective on the opinion they want you to focus on. I'm in marketing so I "see" it when it happens. Having the right language can also be used to reenforce a good and positive mindset too. Tony Robins touches on this in some of his self-help stuff, I YouTube him when I feel especially lost. He's such a sweetheart, not my type though.
If you notice you feel especially guilty for being trans, get out of there. God loves you the way you are.
Very interesting marketing ploy. But I don't really talk all that much with the congregation for them to really get anything out of me. Nobody's ever gonna make me feel guilty about who I am either. I am who I am , and if nobody can accept that, then I don't have the time for them.
People don't buy products, people buy ideas. ;)
Also, I'm sorry if I jumped to any conclusions about your pastor, I'm not a big fan of organized religion for personal reasons.
Quote from: Gina Taylor on May 01, 2014, 01:28:59 PM
But tell me though, what's up with the Baptist church and the LBGT's? Have I missed something?
It's been my experience that in most parts of the country, Baptists tend to be extremely conservative politically and tend to sell an extreme interpretation of the bible. At least the ones that live in my town are (...who also make up the majority of the population). Here, they teach their kids that: Star Wars, My Little Pony, and Harry Potter teach witch craft, that poor people are on welfare and thus, do not deserve/need help (...never have understood this one), Obama is the Anti-Christ, Evolution has no real scientific basis and is blasphemous because it contradicts the word of god, and oh, yeah ... LGBT people are immoral sinners who need to be run out of town, and that's if they're feeling friendly. On a hay ride that my wife signed my daughter up for, I heard the words "Homos should be dragged out into the street and shot! If my kid was gay I'd beat him senseless and throw him out!"
This is the way most people think here, and keep in mind, they said this casually and in front of children.
... I would seriously fear for my life if me being transgender became common knowledge here.
So yes, you going to a baptist chruch openly for 4 months is extremely brave, at least looking at it from where I'm from. I'd be terrified to walk on the opposite side of the street from that place in full girl mode.
Quote from: Amy The Bookworm on May 01, 2014, 08:20:37 PM
It's been my experience that in most parts of the country, Baptists tend to be extremely conservative politically and tend to sell an extreme interpretation of the bible. At least the ones that live in my town are (...who also make up the majority of the population). Here, they teach their kids that: Star Wars, My Little Pony, and Harry Potter teach witch craft, that poor people are on welfare and thus, do not deserve/need help (...never have understood this one), Obama is the Anti-Christ, Evolution has no real scientific basis and is blasphemous because it contradicts the word of god, and oh, yeah ... LGBT people are immoral sinners who need to be run out of town, and that's if they're feeling friendly. On a hay ride that my wife signed my daughter up for, I heard the words "Homos should be dragged out into the street and shot! If my kid was gay I'd beat him senseless and throw him out!"
This is the way most people think here, and keep in mind, they said this casually and in front of children.
... I would seriously fear for my life if me being transgender became common knowledge here.
So yes, you going to a baptist chruch openly for 4 months is extremely brave, at least looking at it from where I'm from. I'd be terrified to walk on the opposite side of the street from that place in full girl mode.
Because that's exactly what Jesus said to do. /sarc
Scary.
Religious folk crack me up. I've never seen so much intolerance from people who claim to be all about love.
Quote from: Kova V on May 01, 2014, 02:37:57 PM
People don't buy products, people buy ideas. ;)
Also, I'm sorry if I jumped to any conclusions about your pastor, I'm not a big fan of organized religion for personal reasons.
Very good point there Kova V. I'm not much of fan of organized religion either, but I go to learn from those that have been educated in theology.
Quote from: Amy The Bookworm on May 01, 2014, 08:20:37 PM
It's been my experience that in most parts of the country, Baptists tend to be extremely conservative politically and tend to sell an extreme interpretation of the bible. At least the ones that live in my town are (...who also make up the majority of the population). Here, they teach their kids that: Star Wars, My Little Pony, and Harry Potter teach witch craft, that poor people are on welfare and thus, do not deserve/need help (...never have understood this one), Obama is the Anti-Christ, Evolution has no real scientific basis and is blasphemous because it contradicts the word of god, and oh, yeah ... LGBT people are immoral sinners who need to be run out of town, and that's if they're feeling friendly. On a hay ride that my wife signed my daughter up for, I heard the words "Homos should be dragged out into the street and shot! If my kid was gay I'd beat him senseless and throw him out!"
This is the way most people think here, and keep in mind, they said this casually and in front of children.
... I would seriously fear for my life if me being transgender became common knowledge here.
So yes, you going to a baptist chruch openly for 4 months is extremely brave, at least looking at it from where I'm from. I'd be terrified to walk on the opposite side of the street from that place in full girl mode.
That's pretty stern if you ask me. And I guess I've been really lucky with as many rednecks as I've got living here as well! :icon_yikes:
Quote from: f_Anna_tastic on May 01, 2014, 10:23:34 PM
Religious folk crack me up. I've never seen so much intolerance from people who claim to be all about love.
You're absolutely right, Anna. Jesus promoted love and if these churches had their way they'd run me out for silly things such as using the ladies room, which I've only used maybe four times. If I had never stepped foot into the ladies room, I wonder if we'd be having this problem? Unfortunately since the damage is done, I can't present a letter to my pastor excusing my actions, nor do I want to make a spectacle of the situation.
Quote from: Gina Taylor on May 01, 2014, 09:41:59 AM
Just had a meeting with my pastor from a Baptist church. He first went over the standard things like if I'm going to die, how do I know that I'm going to heaven, and then he surprised me and told me that he knows that I'm a cross-dresser. But at least it doesn't bother him, because he's been watching me over the past few weeks and he's noticed that I'm not trying to glamorize myself but am just looking for my space when I'm there. Then he told me that some of the women from the congregation have said something to him about me using the washrooms, so I'll have to refrain from using those.
Now I've been going to this church for the past four months and I really thought everything was going well and that I was accepted as a 'woman'. Guess I was wrong. :( I guess I'll still attend the women's bible study, since I'm still a part of that group. The only thing that really puzzles me is how he found out my male name. ???
People of faith, particularly Christians and Muslims are the most bigoted human beings on earth which is odd since the bible strictly prohibits placing ones self in judgement of others. Religion seems to attract these kinds of people who have some sort of pathological need to feel superior over others. It's like that bigot so called pastor Phil Robertson who lashed out against gays for being sinners when in fact it's no more or no less a sin than any of the other sins EVERYONE of US including Robertson commits every single day. If Phil Robertson thinks he is going to heaven he is going to be in for one hell of a surprise.
Good morning Gina. First i want to say that i am sorry that your congrigation are acting the way that they are. I am as well a member of a babptist church, I however started there before I came out.... :-\ I came to my pastor before he married me and my wife. He is very accepring of me as well of my marraige. I know that i will not get the same acceptance from the congrigation however. I cant answer if i will ever go in fem or continue my ando look through out my time here.
I want to commend you in your commitment to jesus and recomend a book that you may find intrest in. it is "the Gay Gospels" by Keith Sharpe. im in the middle of it and it is giving my some insite into how most christians tweak the word to fit there wants.
I spoke with my pastor yesterday about our meeting and he told me that he's known that I'm a transsexual since day one, and that he found out my male name from my bible study leader. He tells me that my lifestyle is between God and me, even though the church doesn't accept it, but they have no problem with it. He told me that if I have a problem with a person, it's with that person and not with the church, and that they will not judge me because of they way I am. :)
Quote from: Gina Taylor on May 05, 2014, 01:29:35 PM
I spoke with my pastor yesterday about our meeting and he told me that he's known that I'm a transsexual since day one, and that he found out my male name from my bible study leader. He tells me that my lifestyle is between God and me, even though the church doesn't accept it, but they have no problem with it. He told me that if I have a problem with a person, it's with that person and not with the church, and that they will not judge me because of they way I am. :)
Well thats is a step in the right direction. and it only goes to show that even when we think we pass. it may not be as well as we imagion. it makes me wonder how so many see me the way i am and dont say a word.......
Quote from: Sheala on May 08, 2014, 12:29:42 AM
Well thats is a step in the right direction. and it only goes to show that even when we think we pass. it may not be as well as we imagine. it makes me wonder how so many see me the way i am and dont say a word.......
Very interesting thought there Sheala, and it's probably something that we all take for granted as well, but at times I wonder how many people see me the way I am and don't say a word.
Yesterday, the assistant came over and greeted me at church and then a minute later he came back and he handed me sheet of paper and told me to read it when I got home. I unfolded it and the first thing I saw was the heading Deuteronomy 22:5 and then right below gave their definition of abomination.
Quote from: Gina Taylor on June 09, 2014, 07:42:00 AM
Yesterday, the assistant came over and greeted me at church and then a minute later he came back and he handed me sheet of paper and told me to read it when I got home. I unfolded it and the first thing I saw was the heading Deuteronomy and then right below gave their definition of abomination.
1. Transgender is not mentioned in the bible. Anyone who claims that the bible says anything at all about us is projecting their own beliefs on the bible.
2. Eunuchs, however, are mentioned in the bible. (Eunuchs are male-bodied people who have renounced their masculinity and allowed themselves to be castrated). Isaiah 56:4-5:
QuoteFor thus saith the Lord unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.
Quote from: kate on June 09, 2014, 08:00:39 AM
My goodness Gina I don't know what to say. I'm so sad that this happened. You really don't need these people in your life.
These people consider themselves to be good people? Shame on them.
I thought that they were good people as well, and I really thought that they wouldn't be judgmental! Boy was I wrong??? Because of this, they've just lost a member o ftheir congregation. My girlfriend has suggested on joining the Goodwill church which she is a member of, and their not judgmental. :)
Quote from: suzifrommd on June 09, 2014, 08:40:25 AM
1. Transgender is not mentioned in the bible. Anyone who claims that the bible says anything at all about us is projecting their own beliefs on the Bible.
2. Eunuchs, however, are mentioned in the Bible. (Eunuchs are male-bodied people who have renounced their masculinity and allowed themselves to be castrated). Isaiah 56:4-5:
If you read the opening post Suzi, you'll see where the pastor called me a cross-dresser and I corrected him and I told him that I am a transsexual. But he still refers to me as a cross-dresser because of his ignorance, and that's more or less what is refered to in the Bible. I'm writing a letter to him and I will make a point of mntion what you have said to him in my letter. Thank you for bringing it to my attention. :)
@Gina: A few things to mention here.
1. you can multi quote instead of multi post which I point this out because every forum I've ever been to has a rule about double, triple etc. (Multi posting) posting in a row.
2. If you REALLY want to learn more about religion, my best advice to you is to whip out a King James bible (Not the new) and read it from start to finish. Be prepared to A) Look up definitions like crazy and remember for the bible's definition, not the normal every day/today's what the word'(s) mean and B) be prepared to read it multiple times in a row. That's what I did, for nearly 5 whole years. While I can't point you to passages like others can, I certainly can tell you I know what's said in the bible and what's not. Likewise I know that other bibles that came after KJ bible have had their words edited to fit the times of now and sadly, that also came with altering in some words to make it sound like certain things were originally said when they never were. Such as how it mentions gay men doing it is an abomination (which doesn't mean it's a sin if you look up the definition of the word), but never says anything when it comes to women and not till new testament, does it say something that "might" can refer to it, but it doesn't say "it" specifically and could mean 1 of 2 other things besides that.
3. I suggest you re-read your posts in this thread from start to finish. I say this because you've made comments about how you're out full time, if someone's got a problem with you then that's their problem and so on, yet, you let them scare you away from the correct wash room.. Just food for thought and, don't let others decide who you are and what you can and can't do.
4. Yes, get away from that "church" as people like that, you don't want to be around. Best of luck!
Hey Gina,
There is a recent topic on Deut 22:5 in the Christianity section with some good points. You may wish to take a quick read thourhg that.
I am so sorry this happened. This isn't the way it's suppose to be. I don't know that I would want to belong to a church that is so ignorant and is not following Christ.
Hugs,
Jen
Quote from: Shana-chan on June 09, 2014, 10:11:30 AM
@Gina: A few things to mention here.
1. you can multi quote instead of multi post which I point this out because every forum I've ever been to has a rule about double, triple etc. (Multi posting) posting in a row.
Thank you for advising this method.
2. If you REALLY want to learn more about religion, my best advice to you is to whip out a King James bible (Not the new) and read it from start to finish. Be prepared to A) Look up definitions like crazy and remember for the bible's definition, not the normal every day/today's what the word'(s) mean and B) be prepared to read it multiple times in a row. That's what I did, for nearly 5 whole years. While I can't point you to passages like others can, I certainly can tell you I know what's said in the bible and what's not. Likewise I know that other bibles that came after KJ bible have had their words edited to fit the times of now and sadly, that also came with altering in some words to make it sound like certain things were originally said when they never were. Such as how it mentions gay men doing it is an abomination (which doesn't mean it's a sin if you look up the definition of the word), but never says anything when it comes to women and not till new testament, does it say something that "might" can refer to it, but it doesn't say "it" specifically and could mean 1 of 2 other things besides that.
I am quite fluent with the King James version of the Bible and I do prefer it to the NIV. I've been actually reading/ studying it for most of my life.
3. I suggest you re-read your posts in this thread from start to finish. I say this because you've made comments about how you're out full time, ift someone's got a problem with you then that's their problem and so on, yet, you let them scare you away from the correct wash room.. Just food for thought and, don't let others decide who you are and what you can and can't do.
They don't scare me, it's just certain rules or laws that I must follow. When I'm at a shopping mall, I have no problems, but if I'm in a place where people know me and I have been told about not using the ladies room and if I still persist in using it, then that's just being disrespectful.
4. Yes, get away from that "church" as people like that, you don't want to be around. Best of luck!
Quote from: JLT1 on June 09, 2014, 10:23:30 AM
Hey Gina,
There is a recent topic on Deut 22:5 in the Christianity section with some good points. You may wish to take a quick read thourhg that.
I am so sorry this happened. This isn't the way it's suppose to be. I don't know that I would want to belong to a church that is so ignorant and is not following Christ.
Hugs,
Jen
Thanks Jen for letting me know out that section. It should prove to be a good read.
@Gina: You're welcome, hope I wasn't rude.
WOW! Awesome! :)
Oh how I dare the law to even try this and someone to step up and take action and so on, I just dare them to. If it happened to me, I got in trouble, if I can so help it, you better believe I'd try fighting for justice as much as I can and I'd sure as all hell point to sex discrimination as well as to the states such as CA that have had a law passed for trans people and no incident has happened thus far. Anyway, my point here is, it's not YOU who is being disrespectful, it is THEM who is being disrespectful to YOU! You are a woman whether you've had surgery or not! Plus, even AFTER the surgery I guarantee you, some will still not be ok with it. Are you REALLY going to let people ran over you like that, just because you were born a certain way? Are there not woman who are born with both genitals or even some woman born without either? Yes, there are and that doesn't make them any less of a woman so how come it's different for us? The answer is, it really isn't, just people are so dead set in the old ways and so on. Anyway, best of luck in the future and you do what you must as I do what I must. :)
Quote from: Shana-chan on June 09, 2014, 10:53:31 AM
@Gina: You're welcome, hope I wasn't rude.
Rude? I enjoyed the challenge.
WOW! Awesome! :)
Oh how I dare the law to even try this and someone to step up and take action and so on, I just dare them to. If it happened to me, I got in trouble, if I can so help it, you better believe I'd try fighting for justice as much as I can and I'd sure as all hell point to sex discrimination as well as to the states such as CA that have had a law passed for trans people and no incident has happened thus far. Anyway, my point here is, it's not YOU who is being disrespectful, it is THEM who is being disrespectful to YOU! You are a woman whether you've had surgery or not! Plus, even AFTER the surgery I guarantee you, some will still not be ok with it. Are you REALLY going to let people ran over you like that, just because you were born a certain way? Are there not woman who are born with both genitals or even some woman born without either? Yes, there are and that doesn't make them any less of a woman so how come it's different for us? The answer is, it really isn't, just people are so dead set in the old ways and so on. Anyway, best of luck in the future and you do what you must as I do what I must. :)
Thank you for realizing my strength :icon_workout: and even though the laws are different here in Florida, I still have to abide by them to a certain point. And one law is is that until I've had my SRS I am still considered a male and therefore I must use the male washroom, but when I'm out and as long as I'm passable enough I will use the women's washroom as I care to do so, unless someone says something to someone and makes a fuss about it. But I just go in and do my business and that's it.
Gina,
Is this a Southern Baptist Church? I ask this as there are news items posted on this site about the SBC about to look at their position on trans* in their upcoming convention. The idea proposed to be brought to the floor fits very well with my definition of abomination - they basically are proposing to take such an anti-trans* position as to make themselves a flat out hate group.
There are other Baptists and hopefully they will do better.
I also recommend looking past the sheet your church gave you about Deuteronmy 22:5. The topic here has some good points, and there are others on the web. If your church takes the simple read of many modern English translations on that verse it may be time to go somewhere else.
Erin
Gina, sorry to hear about your recent church issues. I have been following the thread; I have no comment on religion. However, one thing is clear, you know who you are, you know when to hold and when to fold and you are one strong woman! There is one other thing, you treat trespassers much better than they treat you.
Quote from: Cynthia Michelle on June 09, 2014, 07:33:53 PM
Gina, sorry to hear about your recent church issues. I have been following the thread; I have no comment on religion. However, one thing is clear, you know who you are, you know when to hold and when to fold and you are one strong woman! There is one other thing, you treat trespassers much better than they treat you.
Quote from: ErinWDK on June 09, 2014, 02:11:42 PM
Thanx Cynthia for your good words of comfort. I'm not gonna let a pastor stand between my love for God and my true belief of myself.
Is this a Southern Baptist Church? I ask this as there are news items posted on this site about the SBC about to look at their position on trans* in their upcoming convention. The idea proposed to be brought to the floor fits very well with my definition of abomination - they basically are proposing to take such an anti-trans* position as to make themselves a flat out hate group.
There are other Baptists and hopefully they will do better.
I also recommend looking past the sheet your church gave you about Deuteronmy 22:5. The topic here has some good points, and there are others on the web. If your church takes the simple read of many modern English translations on that verse it may be time to go somewhere else.
Erin
Thanx for the interest Erin, but the church I've been attending is not a Southern Baptist Church. I'm just surprised that if the pastor has know that I'm a transsexual why would he wait six months to address me now. ???
One day last week while I was in guy mode, I walked into a Dollar General store. I went down one aisle and a woman stopped me 'cos she claimed that she knew me from some where. She looked me over and it finally occurred to her where she knew me from. She was the leader of the bible study class from the church that I had been asked to leave. She'd always seen me as a woman, and she told me the first time she met me she thought I was a woman and that is why she showed me where the ladies rooms where.
Uhh, don't leave us hanging Gina, what else happened? The suspense!
Quote from: Shana-chan on July 05, 2014, 01:51:56 PM
Uhh, don't leave us hanging Gina, what else happened? The suspense!
Really wasn't too much said between us. She just hoped that there'd be no hard feelings between us. She told me that the Pastor had let her read the letter that I had sent to him, since I had mentioned her in the letter. Just wanted to clear some things up with him like who gave me permission to use the ladies room. But in closing, she had said that she didn't understand why I needed to dress like a woman.
Quote from: Gina Taylor on July 05, 2014, 08:17:11 PM
Really wasn't too much said between us. She just hoped that there'd be no hard feelings between us. She told me that the Pastor had let her read the letter that I had sent to him, since I had mentioned her in the letter. Just wanted to clear some things up with him like who gave me permission to use the ladies room. But in closing, she had said that she didn't understand why I needed to dress like a woman.
I see, sorry to hear that last part though.
Gina, you are not dressing like as woman. You are dressing as a woman. But she does not understand the difference.
Hugs, and again you handled yourself with decorum and grace.
Gina, I'm sorry about what happened in your church. There's still so much homophobia and transphobia in a place where one should feel secure and accepted. I did a study on Deuteronomy 22:5 a number of years ago. I shared that this prohibition for a particular reason at a particular time in history to a particular people. Going down further some of the other prohibitions (eating shellfish, mixed fibers in clothing) doesn't hold today. At times I wonder how many churchgoers REALLY study their bible.
It's also states in 2 Timothy that show ourselves approved. That means changing some beliefs and and ideas that may be erroneous and damaging to others and the individual. This has damaged many relationships and hurt the faith of some.
Quote from: Cynthia Michelle on July 06, 2014, 03:58:42 PM
Gina, you are not dressing like as woman. You are dressing as a woman. But she does not understand the difference.
Hugs, and again you handled yourself with decorum and grace.
Very well put Cynthia, and that's exactly what I'm gonna be telling people. I'll be correcting them left and right until they fully understand! And thank you for the sweet compliment. I'm also a lady and I would have handled it no other way. :)Quote from: gennee on July 06, 2014, 04:58:49 PM
Gina, I'm sorry about what happened in your church. There's still so much homophobia and transphobia in a place where one should feel secure and accepted. I did a study on Deuteronomy 22:5 a number of years ago. I shared that this prohibition for a particular reason at a particular time in history to a particular people. Going down further some of the other prohibitions (eating shellfish, mixed fibers in clothing) doesn't hold today. At times I wonder how many churchgoers REALLY study their bible.
It's also states in 2 Timothy that show ourselves approved. That means changing some beliefs and and ideas that may be erroneous and damaging to others and the individual. This has damaged many relationships and hurt the faith of some.
Thanks for the kewl insight Gennee. I'll bet 10 to 1 that most church goers just skim through their bibles without really understanding a word from it. Hypocrites is what I call those types of people! :P
Quote from: Gina Taylor on July 08, 2014, 08:50:48 PM
Very well put Cynthia, and that's exactly what I'm gonna be telling people. I'll be correcting them left and right until they fully understand! And thank you for the sweet compliment. I'm also a lady and I would have handled it no other way. :)
Thanks for the kewl insight Gennee. I'll bet 10 to 1 that most church goers just skim through their bibles without really understanding a word from it. Hypocrites is what I call those types of people! :P
There's a Jill-ism for that-
Hypochristian.
I never understood people who only seem to follow select parts of the Old Testament while completely disregarding others. I mean, we don't stone people anymore, right?
Quote from: Jill F on July 08, 2014, 09:30:46 PM
I mean, we don't stone people anymore, right?
Actually, I'm sure in certain parts of the word, we still do and then some..
Right, Shana. Some cultures and some members of some religions in some parts of the world -- mainly probably in Asia and Africa -- and not to denigrate those cultures BUT to point out some of them regarding "stoning" as morally correct.
There are some places in these parts of the world that still advocate physically cutting off the clitoris of genetic girls when they are pre-puberty. This seems absolutely barbaric to me. Apparently this is still done fairly frequently in some parts of the world.
It would be physically unsafe to be transgender in many parts of the world.
I mean, since my nipples are starting to develop, this might merit me a death penalty in some regions of some countries. Because of some misguided crazy belief that because I want breasts I am "going against God and deserve to be stoned to death."
Quote from: Jill F on July 08, 2014, 09:30:46 PM
There's a Jill-ism for that-
Hypochristian.
I never understood people who only seem to follow select parts of the Old Testament while completely disregarding others. I mean, we don't stone people anymore, right?
Since we're on this subject, I checked into it, and stoning is still a legal form of judicial punishment in Iraq, Mauritania, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, Yemen, Northern Nigeria, Aceh in Indonesia, and Pakistan. Just glad that we still have some freedom here in the USA! :)
Quote from: Gina Taylor on July 09, 2014, 10:12:34 AM
Since we're on this subject, I checked into it, and stoning is still a legal form of judicial punishment in Iraq, Mauritania, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, Yemen, Northern Nigeria, Aceh in Indonesia, and Pakistan. Just glad that we still have some freedom here in the USA! :)
I was vaguely referring to people in the West where there is a Christian majority, but wow. Scary. I guess we know exactly who took all the "fun" out of "fundamentalism" now.
Hey, why not have us some good old-fashioned witch hunts just to show them all up? Oh well, we do still have those rattlesnake handler churches...
Quote from: Jill F on July 09, 2014, 10:37:39 AM
I was vaguely referring to people in the West where there is a Christian majority, but wow. Scary. I guess we know exactly who took all the "fun" out of "fundamentalism" now.
Hey, why not have us some good old-fashioned witch hunts just to show them all up? Oh well, we do still have those rattlesnake handler churches...
Sorry. Thought you were talking around the world. A good old-fashioned witch hunt sounds like an excellent idea! :icon_2gun:
Quote from: Gina Taylor on July 10, 2014, 06:37:20 AM
Sorry. Thought you were talking around the world. A good old-fashioned witch hunt sounds like an excellent idea! :icon_2gun:
Um... I understand this is humor - but "witch hunts" really lack in humor. The real "trial" there is to tie the person up and throw them in deep water. If they drown they were innocent and not a witch. If somehow they live through it they are guilty and a far, far, worse fate awaits them.
As trans* we are a minority - one with very LITTLE political clout - so we are at risk for being treated this way if the lunatic fringe gains more control. And the recent SBC resolution about trans* comes a good bit closer to pointing that way than I am comfortable with. All sorts of folk have taken the "fun" out of fundamentalism...
Erin
I have met some pastors who are not very ethical or righteous. My current pastor fits that description.
Quote from: mac1 on July 10, 2014, 09:39:43 AM
I have met some pastors who are not very ethical or righteous. My current pastor fits that description.
My next door neighbor when I was growing up was a pastor who got drunk every night, beat his wife occasionally, and was a complete tightwad who always claimed he had no money to feed and clothe his kids but always managed to drive a brand new sports car while living in a fairly affluent area of Santa Barbara, CA.
I've met other clergy who actually walked the walk.
Quote from: Jill F on July 10, 2014, 11:53:04 AM
My next door neighbor when I was growing up was a pastor who got drunk every night, beat his wife occasionally, and was a complete tightwad who always claimed he had no money to feed and clothe his kids but always managed to drive a brand new sports car while living in a fairly affluent area of Santa Barbara, CA.
I've met other clergy who actually walked the walk.
And they call themselves righteous people of God. Pleaseeeee. I've seen homeless people being more righteous then these people!