I posted this piece on my blog yesterday about being mistaken for cis, particularly an incident with Janet Mock. I've gotten a lot of interesting reactions so I figured I'd see what you all thought:
http://www.aselfmadewoman.com/blog/2014/4/20/on-being-cissed-or-the-night-that-janet-mock-mistook-me-for-cis
I'll confess to a profound irritation at people who don't like us to use the word "pass" but won't let us use any other word either. I.e. Ms. Mock would like us not to talk about passing at all. When someone takes away my language so I can't talk about something, I see that as aggressive.
So her aggressive response to you doesn't surprise me.
And she didn't even answer your question...
Nicely written. I bookmarked your blog :).
I'm sure you get this in retrospect, but your question would have had a totally different context coming from somebody with cis-priviledge, and given the first question she got, and that she mistook you for being cis too, I'm sure she just snapped. I am sure that stung though. i'm sorry it happened to you :(.
Quote from: suzifrommd on May 01, 2014, 08:29:19 PM
I'll confess to a profound irritation at people who don't like us to use the word "pass" but won't let us use any other word either. I.e. Ms. Mock would like us not to talk about passing at all. When someone takes away my language so I can't talk about something, I see that as aggressive.
So her aggressive response to you doesn't surprise me.
And she didn't even answer your question...
I dislike the term "passing" too, for what it's worth, which is nothing.
I dislike passing too. I want us to replace it with something else. Maybe "blending in." Hell, even "assimilating," which I hate, is still preferable. But yeah, I get it. I just wanted to let my feelings out. :)
Beautiful piece and beautiful line: "To be cissed is to get exactly what you wanted, only to find out that it hurts like hell."
I can't say I've ever had it rammed home that directly, but it is strange to be in spaces with other trans folks and to be read as cis. It's... lonely.
I think if you hadn't caught her in such a moment, where she was feeling threatened already, perhaps she'd have avoided making that unfortunate assumption. It's a shame, but none of us can always say the right thing or do the right thing. Perhaps you might contact her and talk to her about it?
I also disagree with the removal of the word "pass." I am aware that originally it meant "pass for female/male," but it is more and more commonly used as "pass as cis," which is similar in context and concept to "pass for white" among PoC and Aboriginal communities. We need the language to describe a concept like passing privilege.
A friend wrote this on FB, which I think is really smart:
"his was interesting. It just proves that we're all human and that everyone needs to be educated. Just because you're a minority doesn't mean you haven't learned how to use the ways of privilege.
'"I don't like the word passing," Miss Janet snapped. "When I walk down the street, I'm just being. I'm not making a political statement because no one can tell that I'm trans."'
It seems to me that she needs a little refresher on what privilege is because only someone with some kind of privilege can have the luxury of saying, "I'm just being." The fact that she can just "be" and not "be beat up" is a benefit from passing.
It also seems to me that one of the reasons this stung so much is that you weren't just trying to ask a question, you were trying to ask a question that would mark you as one of her tribe, and not only did she fail to recognize you, but she then casually negated your membership.
So much to think about."
Quote from: Sarah7 on May 01, 2014, 08:34:52 PM
I also disagree with the removal of the word "pass." I am aware that originally it meant "pass for female/male," but it is more and more commonly used as "pass as cis," which is similar in context and concept to "pass for white" among PoC and Aboriginal communities. We need the language to describe a concept like passing privilege.
Thanks Sarah. "Passing" has such an awful history among PoC communities especially around the assumption that whatever you pass as is desirable and superior compared to what you really are. I tend to use "mistaken for" because it feels more equivalent to me between trans and cis, being the sort of person who doesn't think there's anything inherently wrong, or shameful, or inferior about being trans.
Quote from: mandonlym on May 01, 2014, 08:34:17 PM
I dislike passing too.
Me too. I prefer to run and tackle.
Passing is a concept that needs a word, I agree. It's just that the word itself, passing, carries with it all the other things that word means outside of the trans context. It makes me feel like if I "pass" I'm passing through like a thief, undetected, as something I'm not. There is a fine line here, because I don't dispute being trans (meaning, not cis) but I do dispute not being a woman, and that is usually what is meant when people say you passed. They don't mean you passed as cis, they mean you passed as a woman, because you are, after all, not a woman and here you fooled everybody into thinking you were. I dislike that.
With that all said, it's not like I this is the most important issue out there. I don't cringe when I hear the word, or feel upset by it in any way. In fact, I'll even use it when I'm feeling lazy because it is a convenient shortcut. It's a word that means the thing I want to get across and if I don't use it I will have to use several words to get the same thing explained. I just wish we had a different word for it is all.
Honestly I'm not sure I get the point either. Why just allude to your being a trans woman, and if you do pass, what can you expect? Being trans shouldn't have to be something that is visibly identifiable... and come on, it's obvious that you do like having the ability to pass. You talk about it all the time. You could have just said, "I'm a trans woman, and I was wondering..." if you wanted her to know. I don't think it's fair to be hurt if you didn't fully communicate where you were coming from, not that it makes sense of Janet to assume someone is cis in that environment either but...
Sorry if this seems blunt I'm just a little confused D: if you think passing is the wrong word, then you're also going to have to get used to and internalize the fact that being trans is not necessarily outwardly identifiable. If you weren't afraid to call yourself trans, you wouldn't have to be hurt by being mistaken for cis.
Quote from: sad panda on May 01, 2014, 09:21:22 PM
Honestly I'm not sure I get the point either. Why just allude to your being a trans woman, and if you do pass, what can you expect? Being trans shouldn't have to be something that is visibly identifiable... and come on, it's obvious that you do like having the ability to pass. You talk about it all the time. You could have just said, "I'm a trans woman, and I was wondering..." if you wanted her to know. I don't think it's fair to be hurt if you didn't fully communicate where you were coming from, not that it makes sense of Janet to assume someone is cis in that environment either but...
Sorry if this seems blunt I'm just a little confused D: if you think passing is the wrong word, then you're also going to have to get used to and internalize the fact that being trans is not necessarily outwardly identifiable. If you weren't afraid to call yourself trans, you wouldn't have to be hurt by being mistaken for cis.
I agree with the bold.
Quote from: sad panda on May 01, 2014, 09:21:22 PM
Honestly I'm not sure I get the point either. Why just allude to your being a trans woman, and if you do pass, what can you expect? Being trans shouldn't have to be something that is visibly identifiable... and come on, it's obvious that you do like having the ability to pass. You talk about it all the time. You could have just said, "I'm a trans woman, and I was wondering..." if you wanted her to know. I don't think it's fair to be hurt if you didn't fully communicate where you were coming from, not that it makes sense of Janet to assume someone is cis in that environment either but...
First of all don't ever be afraid of being blunt or confronting me for any perceived bull->-bleeped-<- or privilege. I prefer the dialogue. I do have a tendency and maybe a bad habit of avoiding blatant expressions of "I am trans," maybe partly because of Asian cultural upbringing that emphasizes grace and delicacy. But I did preface my question by saying she's an inspiration to me and that I've listened to her podcast and read articles about her. That combined with my objectively deep voice and strong brow, and the fact that she's trans herself, made me assume that she would recognize the signals. I was also not publicly disclosed at the time so I really had no idea that even people who are around trans people didn't read me as trans.
The other thing is that is a person not allowed to be ambivalent about a privilege? Sure, I have an ego and enjoy being perceived as attractive, lovable, etc. But do I enjoy being mistaken for cis? Just personally, not really. Given the choice between everyone knowing I'm trans but finding me likable and wanting to be my friend, etc., I'd rather have that than people thinking I'm cis but feeling isolated. That's just the truth.
Finally, it really is just impolite especially in a trans context to assume someone's trans status. She of all people should know that. It was a lapse of judgment and an understandable one, but I don't think my disappointment was unwarranted.
And finally finally, how would you like me to talk about myself and my experiences? Am I responsible for people's feelings when I'm only expressing the fact that I'm mistaken for cis in contexts where it's topical and appropriate? People are allowed to talk about their experiences around these issues but somehow a trans woman leading a relatively happy life gets eyed with suspicion. It's been an ongoing issue for me, alienating other trans people for what I feel are just talking about facts regarding my life, so I'd like some feedback about how you would prefer I behave.
Quote from: mandonlym on May 01, 2014, 10:10:00 PM
First of all don't ever be afraid of being blunt or confronting me for any perceived bull->-bleeped-<- or privilege. I prefer the dialogue. I do have a tendency and maybe a bad habit of avoiding blatant expressions of "I am trans," maybe partly because of Asian cultural upbringing that emphasizes grace and delicacy. But I did preface my question by saying she's an inspiration to me and that I've listened to her podcast and read articles about her. That combined with my objectively deep voice and strong brow, and the fact that she's trans herself, made me assume that she would recognize the signals. I was also not publicly disclosed at the time so I really had no idea that even people who are around trans people didn't read me as trans.
The other thing is that is a person not allowed to be ambivalent about a privilege? Sure, I have an ego and enjoy being perceived as attractive, lovable, etc. But do I enjoy being mistaken for cis? Just personally, not really. Given the choice between everyone knowing I'm trans but finding me likable and wanting to be my friend, etc., I'd rather have that than people thinking I'm cis but feeling isolated. That's just the truth.
Finally, it really is just impolite especially in a trans context to assume someone's trans status. She of all people should know that. It was a lapse of judgment and an understandable one, but I don't think my disappointment was unwarranted.
And finally finally, how would you like me to talk about myself and my experiences? Am I responsible for people's feelings when I'm only expressing the fact that I'm mistaken for cis in contexts where it's topical and appropriate? People are allowed to talk about their experiences around these issues but somehow a trans woman leading a relatively happy life gets eyed with suspicion. It's been an ongoing issue for me, alienating other trans people for what I feel are just talking about facts regarding my life, so I'd like some feedback about how you would prefer I behave.
rock on.
Quote from: mandonlym on May 01, 2014, 10:10:00 PM
First of all don't ever be afraid of being blunt or confronting me for any perceived bull->-bleeped-<- or privilege. I prefer the dialogue. I do have a tendency and maybe a bad habit of avoiding blatant expressions of "I am trans," maybe partly because of Asian cultural upbringing that emphasizes grace and delicacy. But I did preface my question by saying she's an inspiration to me and that I've listened to her podcast and read articles about her. That combined with my objectively deep voice and strong brow, and the fact that she's trans herself, made me assume that she would recognize the signals. I was also not publicly disclosed at the time so I really had no idea that even people who are around trans people didn't read me as trans.
Is it ungraceful to be trans? Don't you mean cultural shame?
QuoteFinally, it really is just impolite especially in a trans context to assume someone's trans status. She of all people should know that. It was a lapse of judgment and an understandable one, but I don't think my disappointment was unwarranted.
Granted!
QuoteAnd finally finally, how would you like me to talk about myself and my experiences? Am I responsible for people's feelings when I'm only expressing the fact that I'm mistaken for cis in contexts where it's topical and appropriate? People are allowed to talk about their experiences around these issues but somehow a trans woman leading a relatively happy life gets eyed with suspicion. It's been an ongoing issue for me, alienating other trans people for what I feel are just talking about facts regarding my life, so I'd like some feedback about how you would prefer I behave.
Sorry hon, just feels like a pattern. For someone who doesn't like being perceived as cis, honestly? You focus a lot on times when it happened and I wonder what you are expecting if you're presenting as a woman, of whom the vast majority *are* cis. I'm mistaken for a cis girl every day of my life, and I don't like it either, but I don't talk about it often cuz yah, it happens. If you don't like it, you can tell people that you are trans, or otherwise. I guess I just want to point out that that's an option, and you really cannot always expect people to know, and at any rate I don't think it's right to say you are hurt and sort of take shots at other people for not knowing when you didn't want to say it.
Quote from: sad panda on May 01, 2014, 10:48:13 PM
Is it ungraceful to be trans? Don't you mean cultural shame?
No I mean that inserting "I am trans" into a conversation with a stranger is tricky and derailing especially if you're not talking about anything remotely related. I don't go around introducing myself as, "Hello, I'm Meredith. I am trans," do you? And yes, as I said I wasn't publicly disclosed when this incident happened so I was absolutely expecting her to read the signals. And maybe that's an unfair expectation, but that's negated by what you acknowledged below, which is that in a trans context she shouldn't have expectations about people's trans status in the first place.
Quote from: sad panda on May 01, 2014, 10:48:13 PM
Sorry hon, just feels like a pattern. For someone who doesn't like being perceived as cis, honestly? You focus a lot on times when it happened and I wonder what you are expecting if you're presenting as a woman, of whom the vast majority *are* cis. I'm mistaken for a cis girl every day of my life, and I don't like it either, but I don't talk about it often cuz yah, it happens. If you don't like it, you can tell people that you are trans, or otherwise. I guess I just want to point out that that's an option, and you really cannot always expect people to know, and at any rate I don't think it's right to say you are hurt and sort of take shots at other people for not knowing when you didn't want to say it.
How about we make a deal that it's probably not a good idea to tell people how to feel? Is it "right" for a trans woman to be hurt if other people misgender her when she perceives herself to be presenting as female and the other person sees her as male? Well, maybe not technically unless they've had a conversation first and she explicitly says she prefers to be referred to as female. But are you going to tell her she shouldn't feel hurt when that happens? I hope not because her feelings are real and should be acknowledged, and I'm just asking you to hold me to the same standard.
So I hope you can understand that it's not always convenient for me to disclose to people within minutes of meeting them, especially given that disclosing to one person cannot guarantee that person won't tell other people, especially if you've only just met them. Essentially what you're saying here is that people who are stealth (which thankfully I'm not anymore, and I wasn't ever really fully stealth) aren't allowed to have bad feelings about being mistaken for cis and that they should disclose to everyone if they have said bad feelings. That sounds pretty heartless to me.
As for taking shots at people, did you even read what I wrote, both on my blog and here? I pointed out the incident and how it made me feel. I acknowledged that it was an understandable error in judgment given the situation. How is that taking a shot at someone?
Plenty of people in my life don't know I'm in transition since I pass. It doesn't make me feel terrible when someone perceives me to be cis. I'm not yelling from the rooftops I'm in transition, it's too personal for me to share with strangers. It's no ones business unless I feel like telling someone. Not to mention my area is pretty conservative so I have to be careful around here.
The serious problem with our society regarding the trans community is the perception of what is a trans person, way too many misconceptions. I do wish to help the trans community one day but I'd like to create some sort of reputation first and then disclose my trans status later in life. I'd rather continue living my life and doing the things I love vs worrying about my trans status 24/7...So whenever someone does find out about my trans status, they'll see me for me and hopefully I just might break all the terrible misconceptions of what they considered to be trans. Plus if they're willing to listen I'd be more than happy to educate them about our community.
So basically from my view point those of us who do pass have an opportunity to change society's views about the trans community from inside the system sort of speak.
I wonder if I'll ever be cissed? I doubt it, I'm a blender inner not a passer. We do get wrapped up in semantics, and there are good reasons for that. Words can hurt. They can also heal. I am a believer in politeness, and as much as possible grace. In the article, MS Mock was rude. She is a self described "fish" and her book both describes her struggle, and her triumph. It doesn't give her the right to be ungracious.
One of the things that troubles me is that for most of us, we just want to get along as best we can. If I am person with passing or cis privilege, there is little motivation to associate with trans men and women who do not blend in so well. Is the measure of a successful transition to become invisible, or to be happy? For me it is to be both happy, and to be of some service.
Injustice anywhere, to PoC, trans folks, child exploitation .... the list goes on, diminishes me, it doesn't much matter how well I as an individual blend into the social fabric, when I am surrounded by the suffering of others. I am not afraid of identifying as trans, but first I identify as human. Other that Pride marches it has been a while since I was on the streets trying to make a difference. I still do what I can in quieter ways, but I am no longer a firebrand. Is that a loss to my life, or a recognition of the necessity for balance?
I feel an obligation to my sisters and brothers to be available, that is why I use my real name and picture, and why if anyone wants to contact me I allow it. I think the argument over vernacular is distracting from the real pain trans people experience on the street. My job, as I see it, is to participate in the world as it is, and to try, particularly in the context of trans folks, to neither hide nor be invisible. Wandered of topic a bit didn't I. Ah well, it is age privilege.
Julie
The problem with the word "passing" is it infers deception. Which is just the opposite of what transition is about, honesty and authenticity. If I need to use a word, I use the word "blend". Because as Janet said, I'm just being me. I'm not involved in any deception; I'm just another woman in the world.
I also want to also add another point about that article. First, that was on person's opinion of what happened. Maybe she misread Janet's meaning/intention. Even if she didn't.... Ms Mock has been on a very long book tour. I'm sure she's tired and just wants to go home at this point. In that vein I think we need to cut her some slack. One last point. Look at this from speaker's point of view. She has to be prepared to speak to two very different audiences at the same time; not an easy task.
Quote from: Sarah7 on May 01, 2014, 08:34:52 PM
Beautiful piece and beautiful line: "To be cissed is to get exactly what you wanted, only to find out that it hurts like hell."
Speaking as a professional writer, I just want to agree - that was a helluva a payoff! Well said!
I'll be honest, I'm having an issue personally connecting with this. Perhaps it's simple ignorance on my part or because of my lack of experience, but this all sounds like trans politics/language issue that I can't fully appreciate. I want to pass. Not only as female, but as cis, even to other trans people. Maybe I shouldn't feel that way and that will change in time, but I do want to pass at all times and neither the word itself or the event of it happening seem upsetting to me. It's just how I feel on the subject. Having said all that, I can understand why you have personally come to feel this way. Perhaps it is isolating to be cissed when you are with another transperson. Maybe I'm idealizing something that I can't yet appreciate in it's entirety. It will be interesting to see if my view on this changes with time and more experience. In any event, sorry you went through that.
As for the word passing and Janet Mock's reaction, I really don't understand why it has to be a big deal. I understand the implications it has and the connotations involved, but it's an understandable phrase that most of us use. And it's been my experience that sometimes non-passing or non-stealth transwomen try to shame women that aren't out as trans either socially or physically. I don't think that's what anyone here is doing nor do I know enough about Janet Mock's views, but I suspect that's part of the motivation behind the movement in changing the language. Again, I'm ignorant on transpolitics and have little direct experience as I am still transitioning. I just don't see the issue with using the phrase "passing" and desiring the ability to pass as our identified gender both socially and physically.
"Passing" is a really loaded term for people of color, and I think it's important to recognize that history among trans people. If we get to go around asking people not to use certain pronouns with us or the terms shee-**le and tr***y, it's important for us to recognize that "passing" as a term connotes a history that carries much more emotional weight for certain people than for others. It's not as big of a weight as using other words, but it's there.
As I mentioned in the piece LTL, I used to love it when it happened, especially when I was pre-op. But now I'm a lot more ambivalent because I feel like it erases my history.
Quote from: Carlita on May 02, 2014, 06:10:25 AM
Speaking as a professional writer, I just want to agree - that was a helluva a payoff! Well said!
Thanks so much Carlita! Please pm me if you want to connect. I'm looking for more trans writer friends. :)
Quote from: mandonlym on May 02, 2014, 07:49:09 AM
"Passing" is a really loaded term for people of color, and I think it's important to recognize that history among trans people. If we get to go around asking people not to use certain pronouns with us or the terms shee-**le and tr***y, it's important for us to recognize that "passing" as a term connotes a history that carries much more emotional weight for certain people than for others. It's not as big of a weight as using other words, but it's there.
As I mentioned in the piece LTL, I used to love it when it happened, especially when I was pre-op. But now I'm a lot more ambivalent because I feel like it erases my history.
I read this piece and know where you are coming for. Like I said, it's hard for me to fully appreciate it, but it's very likely experience will change my own view. Nonetheless, I do see why you would feel annoyed given the fact that you are active in the community.
Having said all that, if you don't mind answering, is why passing is such a bad term? Usually people tend to dislike the term for political purposes like being against those in stealth and wanting everyone to be openly trans. That sort of annoys me because it turns my own existence into a political fight that I'm not interested and dictates how others should live. However, I realize you and others here don't hold that view, so I'm wondering why everyone here takes issue with the term and what angle Janet Mock is coming from. What makes it bad for our community and those who are trans people of color? Sorry if this is very ignorant, but I'm just not understanding where that view comes from and know very little about Janet Mock.
Quote from: learningtolive on May 02, 2014, 08:41:27 AM
Having said all that, if you don't mind answering, is why passing is such a bad term?
I think the problem a lot of people have with the term is that if you pass AS something, that means you aren't one. I.e. you're deceiving people. If I pass as a woman that means I'm not a woman.
Mock goes beyond that. She doesn't like the very idea of trying to pass. We should be accepted the same way cis women are, even by people who know we are trans.
I applaud Mock's attempting to change societal attitudes toward us, but until everyone in the world gets past their preconceptions and gender programming, many of us DO want to pass, understandably IMO.
Quote from: suzifrommd on May 02, 2014, 08:57:13 AM
I think the problem a lot of people have with the term is that if you pass AS something, that means you aren't one. I.e. you're deceiving people. If I pass as a woman that means I'm not a woman.
Mock goes beyond that. She doesn't like the very idea of trying to pass. We should be accepted the same way cis women are, even by people who know we are trans.
I applaud Mock's attempting to change societal attitudes toward us, but until everyone in the world gets past their preconceptions and gender programming, many of us DO want to pass, understandably IMO.
Hmm, I agree that we should be accepted like cis women, but we aren't and it won't change soon. So I feel it makes sense for some of us to be stealth and adopt an appearance that we are comfortable with. I have no problem fighting for our community and trying to make changes, but I don't want to make a political statement with my life. I can fight for change and be stealth.
As for pass, I don't think it means anything deceptive. We pass as females because we are. Could there have been a better term? Sure, but everyone understands it's meaning. Again, I'm open to hearing other complaints about the term and learn different perspectives, but I don't really agree with that one.
Quote from: learningtolive on May 02, 2014, 09:19:26 AM
As for pass, I don't think it means anything deceptive. We pass as females because we are. Could there have been a better term? Sure, but everyone understands it's meaning. Again, I'm open to hearing other complaints about the term and learn different perspectives, but I don't really agree with that one.
Just historically it's a really divisive term in the black community because certain people can "pass" and try to pass as white while other people can't pass and are marginalized because they're black (sound familiar? there are a lot of analogies to trans). In that context, whites are perceived to be superior to blacks and also people who "pass" as white but have an African history were thought to be deceitful, liars, etc. Finally, a lot of passing black people shied away from non-passing black people for fear of being recognized as black.
LTL, I will always defend people's right to be stealth and am actually working passively on an article about why stealth is different form being gay closeted, but it does cause political limitations. For instance, what would you do if you were witness to trans discrimination in stealth mode? I was confronted with this several times when I hadn't publicly disclosed, and each time I had to decide to say something and risk disclosure, but it was a tough decision. That's something you might want to anticipate in your journey, as it can be a tough dilemma.
Quote from: mandonlym on May 02, 2014, 09:30:39 AM
Just historically it's a really divisive term in the black community because certain people can "pass" and try to pass as white while other people can't pass and are marginalized because they're black (sound familiar? there are a lot of analogies to trans). In that context, whites are perceived to be superior to blacks and also people who "pass" as white but have an African history were thought to be deceitful, liars, etc. Finally, a lot of passing black people shied away from non-passing black people for fear of being recognized as black.
LTL, I will always defend people's right to be stealth and am actually working passively on an article about why stealth is different form being gay closeted, but it does cause political limitations. For instance, what would you do if you were witness to trans discrimination in stealth mode? I was confronted with this several times when I hadn't publicly disclosed, and each time I had to decide to say something and risk disclosure, but it was a tough decision. That's something you might want to anticipate in your journey, as it can be a tough dilemma.
That is a bit of a dilemma, though I would like to think I would stand up which I've done in the past. Sad that I've witnessed it before, but it does exist and it's something to consider. I don't think I would have to out myself to do so and didn't in the past, but I understand the fear and it would be harder in the moment once I present as female.
Quote from: mandonlym on May 02, 2014, 09:30:39 AM
For instance, what would you do if you were witness to trans discrimination in stealth mode?
Stealth and passing are two different things, right? I pass most places but I don't have any intention to live in stealth.
Passing means I have some choice as to the time and occasion upon which someone learns my past.
Quote from: suzifrommd on May 02, 2014, 10:11:22 AM
Stealth and passing are two different things, right? I pass most places but I don't have any intention to live in stealth.
Passing means I have some choice as to the time and occasion upon which someone learns my past.
Yes, that's true. I myself did not realize I was stealth until someone pointed it out to me. I had no intention of being stealth, in the sense that I kept being an LGBT advocate and outspoken activist. I just didn't talk about my own history. I figured I was just being private and other people were respecting my privacy by not asking me intrusive questions. As it turns out, many fewer people knew than I thought.
Quote from: mandonlym on May 02, 2014, 07:50:13 AM
Thanks so much Carlita! Please pm me if you want to connect. I'm looking for more trans writer friends. :)
Thank you, that would be great. I'll be in touch soon! :)
Quote from: learningtolive on May 02, 2014, 06:47:51 AM
And it's been my experience that sometimes non-passing or non-stealth transwomen try to shame women that aren't out as trans either socially or physically.
Hi LtL. This comment made me pause, thank you for posting that. Probably because I am 'non-passing', so I'm never on the receiving end, and hence wasn't aware of such a phenomenon.
Instead, I experienced the other side of the coin: I am acutely aware of attitudes that suggest "if you're not passing, or attempting to blend in, you're doing it wrong".
I guess the only thing I can add is that I wish that trans* people of all stripes, whether they be fully-transitioned-and-stealth, or out-and-colorful, regardless of which gender they're coming from, could accept one another as-we-are. We'll find no closer allies than each other.
Quote from: learningtolive on May 02, 2014, 08:41:27 AM
Usually people tend to dislike the term for political purposes like being against those in stealth and wanting everyone to be openly trans.
I think there are people on both sides that dislike the term. And I don't think it is always about the concept itself of passing or blending, but the word itself "pass" carries with it a lot of baggage.
For me, I dislike it, but mostly with ambivalence. And I am open to changing my mind about it though, like I have with terms like cis, etc.
Quote from: JesseG on May 02, 2014, 10:59:44 AM
Instead, I experienced the other side of the coin: I am acutely aware of attitudes that suggest "if you're not passing, or attempting to blend in, you're doing it wrong".
Argh, yeah, privilege is so complicated. I can totally admit to doing this, not necessarily overtly, but in retrospect I can be harder on visibly trans women (that's the term a friend suggested as a replacement for not-passing) than those who blend in. It's just that early in transition when I tried to be part of the drag / trans community I had some pretty bad experiences that left a mark, so I've developed prejudices I'm trying to get over.
I think I use stealth incorrectly. I am trying to say I am not an activist like Mock, that my documents and body ID me as female and I control whether I give out my birth gender or genital condition, and to who. It isn't about sneaking around, there is nothing to sneak. In all regards that matter to me, I am a woman.
What I don't get is why people would ever want to only be known as trans? Does the trans woman today dream of a day when they can get SRS and VFS and FFS and boobs and buy $1000's worth of new clothes, give up the love of their families, and then walk around telling everyone they are not born women, but are still 'real' women? it isn't my cup of tea, but the people who do this, seem to be changing how society perceives us in a positive way (I think).
I think the original question was a good one in light of what Janet does for a living, which is sell books about herself. In the mid 80's there was a trans? person who wore a 1-piece swimsuit and high heels with full makeup and a mustache who walked up and down Hennepin Avenue in Mpls., and got screamed at and spit on and slurred. If someone like this who didn't pass and was unknown wrote the book, would anyone care or put her on TV?
Quote from: JulieBlair on May 02, 2014, 03:53:06 AM
I wonder if I'll ever be cissed? I doubt it, I'm a blender inner not a passer. We do get wrapped up in semantics, and there are good reasons for that. Words can hurt. They can also heal. I am a believer in politeness, and as much as possible grace. In the article, MS Mock was rude. She is a self described "fish" and her book both describes her struggle, and her triumph. It doesn't give her the right to be ungracious.
I think different strategies work in different contexts and there are definitely ways that her aggressiveness works to her benefit sometimes. But yeah, that's generally not my approach, for better or for worse. I tend to have a long leash but I can get sassy when my patience runs out.
Quote from: mandonlym on May 01, 2014, 08:36:52 PM
A friend wrote this on FB, which I think is really smart:
"his was interesting. It just proves that we're all human and that everyone needs to be educated. Just because you're a minority doesn't mean you haven't learned how to use the ways of privilege.
'"I don't like the word passing," Miss Janet snapped. "When I walk down the street, I'm just being. I'm not making a political statement because no one can tell that I'm trans."'
It seems to me that she needs a little refresher on what privilege is because only someone with some kind of privilege can have the luxury of saying, "I'm just being." The fact that she can just "be" and not "be beat up" is a benefit from passing.
It also seems to me that one of the reasons this stung so much is that you weren't just trying to ask a question, you were trying to ask a question that would mark you as one of her tribe, and not only did she fail to recognize you, but she then casually negated your membership.
So much to think about."
Wow, sis, I loved this post and your blog! Sooooo intriguing. Janet should see this and definitely apologize.
Quote from: llerret on May 02, 2014, 10:56:30 PM
Wow, sis, I loved this post and your blog! Sooooo intriguing. Janet should see this and definitely apologize.
Thanks so much! Maybe someday we can talk about it... we both live in New York and know people in common I've figured out.