Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Well what do you think?? I read an article today saying this, arguing that it does nothing for the community, any achievements you make become those of cis people, you're undermining and not contributing to the work of trans activists who are campaigning for your rights...etc.

Right.. I don't reeaaally thing this is a fair thing to say. Does that mean if every single trans person was able to pass, they wouldn't? Obviously I see an issue here, and yes I see that if you're not out you can't also be out as 'trans and proud' or whatever, but for me being stealth is SO important. Despite being trans, I don't want people to know. Why should I? Even if they are supportive, you go from being a regular person to a trans person. Ok fine, but it's still a label and something that's 'not normal'.

Thoughts?!

Here's the article if anyone's interested in reading it

http://www.transadvocate.com/stealth-doesnt-help-the-trans-community_n_9817.htm

That's a lot of guilt tripping. Too bad I don't care. Yes, the community needs role models. You can't guilt trip people into doing that though. Not everyone is an extrovert and wants to be exposed. Most of us just want to get on with our lives, in the right body.

It's the ones with an axe to grind that start hollering that. I wouldn't worry about it, just do what you feel comfortable doing for yourself. Making yourself comfortable and happy is not selfish, them asking you to give that up for their reasons is pretty darned selfish.

I'm really glad that others feel the same as me.. It was slightly disheartening to read that article :/

Just remember a lot of work can be done in the background when stealth.

I have done way more fighting for the community in stealth.

Not everyone has to stand in the spot light to be noticed.

Izzy

Back in the early days of my transition (mid-late 1970s), stealth was a survival mechanism as well as a preference.  Nevertheless, it's no one's business but mine how/if I choose to disclose my history to anyone.  Selfish?  Probably - pretty much everything about successfully navigating through transition is selfish to one degree or another.  As for being a role model, I think I'm an excellent role model as a woman who survived a difficult childhood, a nearly fatal relationship with a deranged boyfriend and managed to carve out a successful and lucrative career through sheer hard work & determination without a college degree!  My transsexual history hasn't had any discernible effect on my day to life in many years and that is a joyful thing indeed.

Be that as it may, it saddens me to know that there are folks for whom stealth is not an option. 

Carol

I guess it could be seen that way, sure. But in the end, that's why people transition. To become themselves. If they want to be open about being trans*, and everything that goes with that then more power to them. But likewise if they don't then that's the individual's own perogative, and more power to them, too. I don't think people should be made to behave one way or the other to serve a greater interest. If they want to, fair enough, but if they don't, and just want to live their lives, then I think that should be respected.

Some people live their lives to promote trans awareness, and that's awesome. But some people live their lives to escape their own personal baggage, and lose their own awareness of being trans. I think that's equally awesome. Whether it helps or harms anything is, to my mind, largely irrelevant. It isn't about what everyone else wants you to do. It's about what you want to do. That's the whole point.

Maybe it is selfish, but so what. People get to be selfiah sometimes. You can't live your whole life for others. Sometimes you need to do something that is just for you. Ultimately you must live your life in a way that will bring you contentment.

Some people have had enough difficulty in their life. They have gone through hell and come back, and that's not just from things related to being trans. Someone shouldn't be made to feel inferior because they want to live their life without being on stage all the time. I'm out and in the activist role and I can tell you that part sucks sometimes. I'm only known in my area and among the local trans community. Even then there are times when I go to a support group and want to talk about my insecurities but can't because there are people there that have told me that it inspires them to see someone so sure in themself. At work I get people asking me about trans issues all the time because they think I'm some sort of representative of trans women everywhere. Now this isn't meant to be a pity me post. This is my choice and I'm really happy to be so open and getting into activism, but no way should someone be shamed for not wanting this.

Besides a lot can be done for the trans community without proclaiming to everyone that your trans.

Quote from: eggy_nog on May 03, 2014, 03:55:29 PM
Thoughts?!

Yeah...I'm going to put my life in possible jeopardy just because some writer from a zine/website has an issue with the idea of stealth.

Yeah...sure. That's a great idea. ::) If anyone thinks that I am "selfish", meh, who cares? My family also thought I was selfish because I wanted to be referred to by my legal name and not the stupid charade that I was stuck with at birth. If I didn't care what my family thought (which is now a dead, non-issue), why the hell would I care about what some stranger thinks?

At the end of the day you can argue that anyone that transitions is selfish, after all who are you transitioning for and would most of your friends/family be happier with you presenting the way you were born or the way you feel. I spent 20 years of my life batting this exact issue and in the end I came to the conclusion that I deserve to be happy, even if it has a slight impact on everyone else. To this point stealth can actually be a selfless act, protecting your family and significant others by going stealth can and is a very noble act.

In the end I weighed up the pros and cons, personally I'd much rather me and my family experience slight discomfort and try to reduce the 43% transgender suicide rate, I'm lucky I failed when I tried and If I can help even one person It's worth any amount of embarrassment.

When I transitioned in 1974, stealth was expected. Integrating into society and disappearing into the woodwork showed that medical treatment WORKED and that it was an effective treatment for GID. If it weren't for the hundreds who 'disappeared' treatment would never have gained credibility.

I FOUGHT hard through the 1960s and into the 1970s educating doctors and opening the doors to SRS and it nearly cost me my freedom more than once. Numerous times it also nearly cost me my life! So with SRS and transition at age 24, I had done my duty, I had done more than "my part" in winning the battle and felt COMPLETELY justified in living the life I had fought for. If someone tries to make me feel guilty for doing that I would simply ask them "What have you done for the cause?"

I did my transition to line up my brain and body and then go live a life. If I lived on a tropical island all alone I would still be happy.

Honestly the people who scream from the rooftops for change are asking for change that society might not necessarily be ready to give them. Even smart, intelligent reasonable people have issues with us. Just look at how court cases and "juries of peers" rule on cases.

I prefer helping but not necessarily in a direct way, but one on one. I know from just plain common sense that I cannot change everyone's minds, but if I can change one mind than it's still a win.

My therapist told me to rather not tell everyone I am transsexual and keep it as secret as possible for my own safety. That has been pretty difficult since my voice gives me away the moment I speak.

I don't think it's selfish at all. I think we have the right to feel safe and if letting everyone know you're transsexual makes you feel less safe, then why should you have to do it?

I would prefer it if no one knew I was transsexual because I want them to see me as a woman, and some people have difficulty doing that even when you pass 100%.

I think that's another reason my therapist told me not to tell people , he said for me to identify strongly as female, I have to have as many people as possible see me as female and he discussed with me how I can handle questions such as "Do you want children one day?" and "how do you experience your periods?" so that I don't lie but don't give myself away either.

I've recently come to the conclusion that people who tell you you're being selfish are really saying, "I want to be selfish and your doing things the way you want instead of the way I want is getting in my way." Cynical, I know, but most of these issues seem to boil down to someone telling me I should value what they value more than what I value.

Dee

No, it's not.  I plan on going stealth (to a degree) once I go full time.  I will never turn my back on this community and will always fight for the advancement of transgender people, but my life is not a political statement.   I have the right to live it as I see fit.  And I want to be happy rather than get everyone else's approval which is a big issue for me.  To be honest, the people that say this usually don't have the ability to go stealth, so they try to make everyone else follow their path.  That's really not fair of them to say.  I can still support other trans people, like I do my best here and will continue to do so, and try to help those starting out, but there is a limit to what I'm willing to sacrifice.  Perhaps that is selfish, but it overlooks the bigger picture.  And I know some stealth people that do a lot more for their community and give themselves much more than some of the self righteous people who think they have a moral high ground. 

If you want to be stealth, don't let anyone force you to live otherwise.  It's your life, and you don't have to follow any rules other than the law.  Follow your heart, and don't let anyone else shame you for it.

No its not, People go stealth for all kind of reasons and its hard Being out. However i Think those stealth People who talk bad about People who Are out are selffish. Specially when it comes to activism, i have tried that so Manu times and it really annnoying and tiredsome. The Think about stealth People not Being able to be usefull for the comunity is not true. Sure there May be limits but theres Still Many ways you Can be stealth and help out.

I really highly doubt that it should be considered selfish at all. I have to be in stealth around my dad cause I haven't told him and I doubt I plan on telling him any time soon. Being in stealth allows me to gauge his reaction of a friend who also is transgender and from what I can tell, I really won't tell him.

Reaver

I'm a publicly disclosed person who will always defend a trans woman's right to be stealth. I will always encourage people to disclose if they feel comfortable because it does help politically, but given the gender climate in our culture, I think it's unfair to place even greater psychological burdens on people than they already have. I'm super-aware that my ability to be publicly discloses comes form a lot of privilege, and it's not something I expect from every trans woman. We all make our choices and right now, I think being stealth is an important right to defend for a significant part of our community.

Quote from: eggy_nog on May 03, 2014, 03:55:29 PM
Well what do you think?? I read an article today saying this, arguing that it does nothing for the community, any achievements you make become those of cis people, you're undermining and not contributing to the work of trans activists who are campaigning for your rights...etc.

Right.. I don't reeaaally thing this is a fair thing to say. Does that mean if every single trans person was able to pass, they wouldn't? Obviously I see an issue here, and yes I see that if you're not out you can't also be out as 'trans and proud' or whatever, but for me being stealth is SO important. Despite being trans, I don't want people to know. Why should I? Even if they are supportive, you go from being a regular person to a trans person. Ok fine, but it's still a label and something that's 'not normal'.

IMO it doesn't matter what the "community" thinks or says.  Everyone has their own unique path and needs. That said I believe "stealth" is impractical for a number of reasons.  Number one is you'd be living in a tight closet.  I didn't transition from the hellish life I had before just to live in a freakin' closet.  I live a fairly assimilated life.  Some people know (since I transitioned on the job), most do not and I don't care if anyone does find out.  No closet; just me being me. 

I dont do like ""Hi I'm Diana and I'm transgender".. no I dont do that .. I don't know if it's selfish or not, it's just how I live my life .. I dont put make-up or dress girly to look like cis female , because without make-up & without girly cloth, I still look like cis female ...

anyway, I dont care either way if they know or not, I'm quite comfortable with who I am  ;D

Quote from: eggy_nog on May 03, 2014, 03:55:29 PM
Well what do you think?? I read an article today saying this, arguing that it does nothing for the community, any achievements you make become those of cis people, you're undermining and not contributing to the work of trans activists who are campaigning for your rights...etc.

While that all may very well be true, how about a little thought experiment?
Imagine that article, or even the synopses above. Change stealth to gender expression and community to family.

Now what does it sound like?

For me, I get the same answer. People just gotta do what is right, For Them and not for others. What someone decides to do today is not absolute. Those who are stealth have been known to go public when the time and circumstances for them said so. I am sure there are plenty of Out folks that wished otherwise

Is it selfish to be stealth? Everyone is different. Some people are activists, some want to just be themselves and live somewhat normal lives, if there is such a thing. Some poeple love attention and some hate it. So pretty much it is up to an individual as to what they do with thier lives. Thank God for those activists though and thank God for those that are not scene behind the scenes and thank God for those that no one knows and just living thier lives how they want.

Quote from: antonia on May 04, 2014, 01:57:36 AM
At the end of the day you can argue that anyone that transitions is selfish, after all who are you transitioning for and would most of your friends/family be happier with you presenting the way you were born or the way you feel. I spent 20 years of my life batting this exact issue and in the end I came to the conclusion that I deserve to be happy, even if it has a slight impact on everyone else. To this point stealth can actually be a selfless act, protecting your family and significant others by going stealth can and is a very noble act.

In the end I weighed up the pros and cons, personally I'd much rather me and my family experience slight discomfort and try to reduce the 43% transgender suicide rate, I'm lucky I failed when I tried and If I can help even one person It's worth any amount of embarrassment.

I think Antonia is spot on - sorta.  There is a time when, if you can, just living life as you were meant to is not only ok but pretty essential.  Most of us have felt lonely and afraid of who we are for years.  The cis world just isn't ready for honesty unless you are both confident in yourself, and confident in your choices.  I'm not always either of these.  I have been alternately been accused of being a selfish bastard, and a selfish bitch.  In both cases it is because I am willing to pay the price required for an authentic life, and because I would choose life over psychic death.  I serve nobody if I'm dead, or cloistered in the cis closet.  I doubt if I will ever be able to go truly stealth, but if I could I would, at least for a time. 

LTL pointed out that we can support trans people without trying to save the world.  That is so true, but if in our desire to be accepted as women, we choose not to engage with other trans folks in the real world to avoid being clocked as a group, then I think we just crawl back into a new closet.  I will never be a ciswoman, I will never truly be able to pass as one entirely.  An awful lot of you are just simply beautiful young women and have that option.  To take it is not morally or ethically wrong at all and may be essential to doing mundane things like earning a living and taking care of those you love. 

I am not ashamed of who I am.  Neither am I afraid of the consequences of being identified as trans.  I am old enough to do my best to be an ambassador to anyone who wants to be educated.  Even so I do not go out of my way to be a symbol, and most certainly try to avoid people and places where I might be harmed.  I need the company of other tans people, both men and women, in my life.  You guys get me in ways that are simply not possible outside.  If you ever come to Seattle, I would love to share a cup of coffee, a meal, go shopping or to a spa with any of you.  To be authentic in public and in person with other courageous, articulate people is my dream come true.

I think that all of us are willing to participate in the body politic as it affects the trans community in our own way and in our own time.  To be honest about who I am without trying to be either a beacon or a martyr is my goal for the rest of my life. I hope it lasts a long, long time.

Julie