I've been thinking about this a lot lately. Wouldn't this be the perfect way to mindF with people and totally fly over all that femininity "do I pass" bullcrap?
I can imagine life would be intriguing if you did this.
Well I don't look at my femininity as bullcrap and I don't act feminine to pass I just do what I feel comfortable with and that's being feminine. And I really was never comfortable with masculine mannerisms.
I already moved feminine prior to transitioning, many people just assumed I was closeted gay. (We'll technically they were correct in that I'm a lesbian.) Feminine mannerisms just came natural to me. It so nice to be myself and not have to try and fake male mannerisms.
The other day I was having lunch at Panera Bread and I noticed a woman in her late 20's who at first I thought was cis. She kept looking at me and then I noticed how she walked and her mannerisms were. (Seems like transgender people can spot each other no matter how well we pass.) I was wearing a feminine top, women's jeans and open toe sandals showing off my painted toenails. She was in a much more feminine skirt, heals and and her hair was really nice. Her mannerisms gave it away from how she walked to how she picked up things.
My mannerisms kinda switch I dont know why...
but sometimes I act really feminine and sometimes really masculine,,,
I guess its more fun like this?
I dunno...
Yeah... I can't go down to doing that. It brings up too much emotional baggage.
I think if you're attractive you can get away with so much more. It's like an earned right to flaunt any which way you want.
But if you are not attractive or passing as such then you have to stay within boundaries or draw the ire of the stink eye.
Quote from: Evelyn K on May 05, 2014, 12:19:55 AM
I think if you're attractive you can get away with so much more. It's like an earned right to flaunt any which way you want.
But if you are not attractive or passing as such then you have to stay within boundaries or draw the ire of the stink eye.
Sadly this is how it works :)
I ve said it before,
If you are a cis girl with a cis female voice
no matter how you act /speak/walk etc
you would still be percieved as a 100% cis female...
its the freedom of expression that most of us cant have for obvious reasons...
trust me when I say that I know girls who act extremely masculine, that doesnt lessen their femininity,not even by a little...
thats why I call bull->-bleeped-<- when I hear people talking about how important mannerisms are...
really, they are not ,,,whats important is the female appearance and of course the voice ...
thats what im trying to achieve...
my opinion...
^^ Exactly. Bold truthful assessment - no skirting the issue or need to psychologize it into oblivion.
It is what it is.
When I'm out I don't fuss about manerisme or anything, but I naturally have a lot of mannerisms anyway. First time I went out pressenting as femail I was wearing an almost to short skirt tights two inch heel ankle boots and a Tshirt. Ot was when I first when to inform my doctor about my situation, and no body seemed to notice, well I got noticed as legs :p car honks and grinning builders on oposite side of the road thogh. And oh yeah being called out as his name and having to respond to it kind of threw a spanner in to works, don't think anyone noticed up to that point. But I think if my legs had of been covered then eyes might of been elswear. So somtimes bold presentation can help, but then again that only works at not so claose ranges.
Quote from: ♡ Emily ♡ on May 05, 2014, 03:36:43 AM
having a jacket on somehow stiffens me up instantly... Old habits die hard.
My cis female roommate said something interesting to me the other day. She mentioned how she thinks that her outfit kind of defines her mood that day. So, she tailors her outfit to take on whatever persona she wants.
I tried it today, and I found that it works like crazy. Funny how just some fabric hanging over your body can change the way the mind operates.
I'm polygender so not binary identified and even if I'm pretty hot I do vacillate between definite female and definite male mannerism/body language. When I assume a more dykeish gender presentation I basically do everything 100% like a guy except I keep my female voice. But not it's not mind->-bleeped-<-ing much because people just assume I'm pretty much what I am most of the time which is a masculine lesbian. Using my male voice on the other hand is serious mind->-bleeped-<- because I look like your average girl next door but I can sing like Frank Sinatra.
Interesting thread.
My mannerisms were pretty girly when I was a kid until they were routinely beaten out of me. Everyone thought I was a little gay boy. I wasn't even too sure about that. Faking masculinity wore so thin by age 43 that it became soul-crushing. When I finally began to shed the mask, my femininity was very easy to recover. I just did what came naturally and unfiltered. It turns out that my wife has far more masculine mannerisms than I do. She sits with her legs open, sprawls out, belches when she drinks beer and walks like a soldier when she wears sneakers. I had to force myself to do these things. Anyway, we're quite an interesting pair now.
Quote from: ♡ Emily ♡ on May 05, 2014, 03:36:43 AM
Means like farting, burping and doing other nasty things? :) Wait till You start HRT, get a couple of months of E running through Your veins and then we will get back to this topic, mkey? :)
The only time when I switch on my "predator" mode is when I need to go to male WC (cause neutral/handicapped rooms are not available) and even then I feel inside like I am infiltrating enemy camp and drawing stares. Oh, and when I am forced into semi official dress - having a jacket on somehow stiffens me up instantly... Old habits die hard.
Well not that extreme lol! I mean being like a hotty urban cowboy (or cowgirl) not concerned whatsoever with exasperating girlishness that might get her clocked.
Letting it all relax and hang out.
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She's hot in her tomboyish way, she can sit with her legs open or slightly crossed with her ankle on her top knee and void sitting 'proper' with her hands together, fluttering eyes and that forced puckered face expression that so many trans women do. Ughh.
Say looking sexy and relaxed like her (you still have to accent things in female ways like the heels) but have a guy attitude and presentation. Along the lines of what Seyranna was saying. Maybe something like being a lipstick lesbian with a David Beckham or Hugh Jackman attitude and demeanor.
While I am certainly not among the hot, I'm sure I do have some masculine mannerisms about me, but I don't worry about it. Guys do kind of get thrown off if I open the door for them though, lol. I also move fairly fast, but its generally smooth, so no one notices anything out of kilter. I really don't think about how I move or what I do most times, just keep moving and doing.
Quote from: ♡ Emily ♡ on May 05, 2014, 03:32:24 PM
Or rather someone like Cynthia Rothrock? :)
Gosh, I must be really old to remember her...
How about Sarah Conner in Terminator 2...
Here's an example of a complete MindF of a woman.
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Angelina Jolie in any of her actiony adventury movies?
I think Angela is more of an over-the-top expression of hotness not realistically achievable.
But Sarah Connor (Linda Hamilton in pissed off mode), plausibly.
Welp, I'm going to have to add that to my movie queue. I'm a sucker for alpha females ;D
Quote from: Seyranna on May 05, 2014, 09:37:33 AM
Using my male voice on the other hand is serious mind->-bleeped-<- because I look like your average girl next door
Heh.... Speaking of that - I mind->-bleeped-<-ed my therapist recently. I naturally have a soft voice that's in the female range, and with voice training it's gotten even better. My therapist seems to have forgotten about my boy mode since she's seen me in female mode for so long. In a recent therapy session I was making some random point and I on purpose dropped into my lowest boy voice and a look of absolute shock/horror came across her face lol...... She told me not to do that anymore because "that voice shouldn't be coming out of you" :)
Uh-oh voice police! I'm non-binary identified too but have had feminine mannerisms ever since childhood so I don't think it'll ever feel fully natural to "act like a guy." However, for funny events and special occasions I do these voice imitations of male friends and people around find them funny and disturbing.
Quote from: Jill F on May 05, 2014, 12:24:34 PM
My mannerisms were pretty girly when I was a kid until they were routinely beaten out of me. Everyone thought I was a little gay boy. I wasn't even too sure about that. Faking masculinity wore so thin by age 43 that it became soul-crushing. When I finally began to shed the mask, my femininity was very easy to recover. I just did what came naturally and unfiltered. It turns out that my wife has far more masculine mannerisms than I do. She sits with her legs open, sprawls out, belches when she drinks beer and walks like a soldier when she wears sneakers. I had to force myself to do these things. Anyway, we're quite an interesting pair now.
OMG, I think we were twins separated at birth. I went through the exact same thing. From my femininity being beaten out of me to my (almost cis) wife being more masculine than I am. (She will tell you that.) She does identify as gender-fluid.
Today I was trying to straighten out her insurance billing. BCBS had messed her billing account when we switched from the private insurance to the marketplace insurance. (i.e. Obamacare). We paid the new policy 2 weeks ago and the old one was automatically canceled, but today they took additional money out of our account for the policy that was canceled. (Which is a lot more.) The account is in her name and she didn't want to deal with it. So it was time to use my feminine voice and be her. (She was in the same room.) I did this 2 weeks ago and was gendered female the entire time. Keep in mind that her first legal name is Robin and in some places that's a male name, but her account does say female. So I called up and the first person called me ma'am. Then the 2nd person (with a thick Indian accent) kept calling me sir. I kept correcting him and he continued to sir me. Plus he wasn't listening to anything I was saying or trying to explain. He kept going on about a small refund check we received from the previous month. He didn't believe me that they took more money out. (Calling me sir every time with me correcting him.) I stopped him and asked him to repeat what I said. (He couldn't do it.) I asked for a supervisor (my wife was in disbelief while this was going on.) He couldn't get one today but could have one call me back tomorrow. Finally, I asked him, if he had the account up on his screen. He said yes. I asked, what is the gender on the account listed. He said Robin, that's a man's name. I said look again. Silence for about 5 seconds. Oh, female!!! I said yes, exactly, I asked you 10 times to address me as Miss or ma'am did you not here me? His response, sir I didn't hear that, ohh I mean ma'am. Then he kept switching back and forth on genders. (Now I totally understand why my wife goes by her much more feminine middle name of Leah.) I was really more upset over the fact that he seemed to read from a standard script than really understand what was going on. However the gender thing really got on my nerves. Still he didn't have the problem solved as now I have to fax a copy of the bank statement of the ACH and call them back, but they close at 6pm (and it was 5:58 when he told me this.) I told him I wanted the supervisor to call me anyway. At the end, he said to hang on for a phone survey for the call, but it never came. (The one time I really wanted to use that.)
My wife said afterwards that I handled it much better than she would have. (She has a temper.) She said my voice was fine, that it was the name. (To me my voice sounds more androgynous than feminine, but she says it's pretty feminine and it's never clocked me in person.) What impressed her the most is that even when I yelled, I kept it my mannerisms feminine, something she wouldn't do. When she gets mad, she sounds like a cursing sailor, LOL.
Quote from: ♡ Emily ♡ on May 05, 2014, 04:33:15 PM
Mila J. in any of Resident Evil's. She would eat Ms Connor for breakfast :).
love RE movies
she's so fierce miss J.
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Quote from: Sydney_NYC on May 05, 2014, 07:47:14 PM
OMG, I think we were twins separated at birth. I went through the exact same thing. From my femininity being beaten out of me to my (almost cis) wife being more masculine than I am. (She will tell you that.) She does identify as gender-fluid.
Ditto, got beaten up every other day and have the scars, broken nose, etc to prove it. Interestingly enough my GF is also much more masculine than me in many ways but she could probably wear a suit and mask and still get gendered as a woman.
I also am finding it surprisingly easy to shed my male patterns the are melting away at an alarming rate.
I would feel very uncomfortable behaving like my old male self but looking feminine, it would go against every fiber in my body to do so.
Quote from: Seyranna on May 05, 2014, 09:37:33 AM
Using my male voice on the other hand is serious mind->-bleeped-<- because I look like your average girl next door but I can sing like Frank Sinatra.
I used to pull the voice out when I wanted to screw with somebody. I don't anymore. It just feels beneath me in a way, like I've outgrown it and it almost hurts to bring back. I am 100% always gendered as female on the phone, but I can go Barry White if I wanted to. It used to weird my best friend out when I did it. I'd do it to make his skin crawl when I was mad at him.
Maybe not 100% masculine, but there are certain traits I would like to keep. I love to see women in masculine roles. When I was a firefighter in my earlier years, women in the yellow and green nomex suits were a great sight. Women in a tool belt is also sexy. It is not just the look, but the attitude. Not only do I look good in a tool belt, but I can master every tool on this belt.
There is a coworker that is an avid outdoors person along with her husband. She is a "jeans girl" and does a great job with her appearance. She does her hair, make-up, and nails and carries the sexy tomboy look well by pairing a fitted tee or blouse with fashionable jeans. I do like dresses and skirts but would like to have the tomboy attitude that she carries.
Julia
How about a woman with a big truck and an 80 mph bass boat? Though I love both my truck and my boat I've always been very feminine and am fairly on the girly side in the way I dress and especially in my mannerisims. Even when I'm out on my boat I'm usually dressed in a pink or purple halter, short shorts and I have this cute little red hat with white polka dots with a hole in the back for my ponytail to go through I wear while fishing. But mostly I'm a bit of a Girly Girl. I've just always been very feminine, it's what comes natural to me.
I too am a sucker for alpha females in movies. Sweaty & bloody Sarah Connor pumping that shotgun up and down firing it with one hand in Terminator II is Hot! So is Mila in Resident Evil. Uma Thurman in Kill Bill I & II, and let's not forget Charlize Theron in Aeon Flux, and Sharon Stone in The Quick and the Dead!
Ally :icon_flower:
To be honest, I never really think about how my mannerisms come across. I don't see the need to change who I am rather than feel comfortable with it. There was a time where I was like everything must be 100 percent feminine, but now I just don't care if there are "masculine" aspects about myself. The whole point of this transition is for me to no longer feel like I have to hide myself. I don't want to be someone who needs to retrain how they walk or simple things like that. Who wants to be a caricature? I just want to feel free and happy with myself at all times- something I've never felt before. I want to be me and confident in who that is, that's all. Can't wait for that.
Be you and don't be apologetic for it. That's the best thing any of us can do.
Quote from: Allyda on May 06, 2014, 08:42:14 PM
How about a woman with a big truck and an 80 mph bass boat? Though I love both my truck and my boat I've always been very feminine and am fairly on the girly side in the way I dress and especially in my mannerisims. Even when I'm out on my boat I'm usually dressed in a pink or purple halter, short shorts and I have this cute little red hat with white polka dots with a hole in the back for my ponytail to go through I wear while fishing. But mostly I'm a bit of a Girly Girl. I've just always been very feminine, it's what comes natural to me.
I too am a sucker for alpha females in movies. Sweaty & bloody Sarah Connor pumping that shotgun up and down firing it with one hand in Terminator II is Hot! So is Mila in Resident Evil. Uma Thurman in Kill Bill I & II, and let's not forget Charlize Theron in Aeon Flux, and Sharon Stone in The Quick and the Dead!
Ally :icon_flower:
nobody has mentioned Selene from the underworld or Violet both vampires and a$$ kickers
That being said, I'm not really sure I would care about mind fing people. That doesn't sound like a fun thing for me as I'm very socially conscious and afraid of other people. Either way, I wouldn't want to be fake.
I don't think my mannerisms will ever be normal for a "guy" though I'm not really sure how I'll be taken as a woman. Like will I still be considered feminine when people percieve my gender differently. It's a big difference being seen as a gay or andro male and a woman. I'm not sure, but I just want to continue being myself, so it doesn't matter either way. I'm getting less afraid around other people and that's a good thing for me. Maybe one day I will get to be confident in who I am and not afraid of everything around me, lol, that'll be the day.
My mannerisms are naturally very feminine but at timea I act like a tomboy...depends on my mood.
My voice always passes as cisgender now, after a bit of working on it.
Am always seen as cisgender female now. Have never been happier! :)
No matter what I do or how I act or what I wear, I am always seen as cisgender female.
This didnt happen over night. Took 4 months of hrt and now at the 6 month mark, am looking forward to seeing more changes.
Hair is taking forever to grow out to...darn lol
Quote from: learningtolive on May 06, 2014, 09:03:06 PM
To be honest, I never really think about how my mannerisms come across. I don't see the need to change who I am rather than feel comfortable with it. There was a time where I was like everything must be 100 percent feminine, but now I just don't care if there are "masculine" aspects about myself. The whole point of this transition is for me to no longer feel like I have to hide myself. I don't want to be someone who needs to retrain how they walk or simple things like that. Who wants to be a caricature? I just want to feel free and happy with myself at all times- something I've never felt before. I want to be me and confident in who that is, that's all. Can't wait for that.
Be you and don't be apologetic for it. That's the best thing any of us can do.
Now you've got it sweetie. Just be yourself. Remember your a girl after all and your femininity will shine through if you just be yourself.
Ally :icon_flower:
Quote from: stephaniec on May 06, 2014, 09:11:23 PM
nobody has mentioned Selene from the underworld or Violet both vampires and a$$ kickers
Yea I forgot Kate Beckinsale as Seline in the Underworld films. I just looooove her outfits she wears in those movie's too. Thanks for reminding me.
Ally :icon_flower:
Quote from: Evelyn K on May 04, 2014, 10:49:06 PM
I've been thinking about this a lot lately. Wouldn't this be the perfect way to mindF with people and totally fly over all that femininity "do I pass"
bullcrap?
I can imagine life would be intriguing if you did this.
Oh, Evelyn, this is exactly the type of post I think to post but then refrain from, incase it's viewed as cynical or insensitive towards binary transsexuals. I don't respect the binary and those who are, but find it almost impossible to feel understood as a non binary who isn't interested in blending in with society on society's unfair terms.
The answer to your question is, it would be a perfect blend of traits for the society that the western world currently inhabits. Female beauty and masculine attitude. Those are the gender attributes that are primarily appreciated, so isn't it logicala that owning both would be the most beneficial?
Society pretends it isn't, as it is waaaay too much of a mind funk. Interestingly, it IS fine for femminists and movie stars to I'm for this, but. Not the average Joe and especially not transexuals.
As a transsexual you are supposed to be crossing from one gender to the other, it's not acceptable to aim for a balance that works for you, as there's the potential for you to "play" the system by having the "best of both worlds". And that annoys and frightens the binary masculinists, conversatives, conformists, femibists, etc because choosing your own gender sweet-spot is an extreme form of self empowerment detached from any accepted social movements.
I possibly, could have achieved the gist of what you're suggesting a few years back, with some hormonal and ffs help. But it was hugely frowned upon.
Quote from: ♡ Emily ♡ on May 08, 2014, 01:44:36 PM
That is kinda the aim I am going for :). And sometimes I think that all transsexuals are actually non-binary in denial. It is that they need to "adapt" the binary mindset to satisfy all criteria for "standard" transition.
I find this more than a bit offensive. Bisexuals (like me) heard the same kind of crap from gays and lesbians in the 80's.
Quote from: ♡ Emily ♡ on May 08, 2014, 01:44:36 PM
That is kinda the aim I am going for :). And sometimes I think that all transsexuals are actually non-binary in denial. It is that they need to "adapt" the binary mindset to satisfy all criteria for "standard" transition.
Sorry, but this is dead wrong. My original plan was to take a therapeutic dose of estrogen and to not fully transition. I originally thought I was an androgyne or bigender and I wouldn't have to go through all of this crap. Yeah, I was wrong. I do have to go through all of this crap because I actually despise everything masculine about myself. The more feminine I am, the better I feel. It turns out that I fit perfectly into the binary. Some of us have brains that have more estrogen receptors than others, and I do believe there are degrees of severity when it comes to dysphoria.
for some reason my brain is not allowing me to understand this argument so I can't comment.
Quote from: ♡ Emily ♡ on May 08, 2014, 02:09:38 PM
OK, I got it. I guess, I should not even attempt to post in this section in order not to offend someone.
By all means post. Being a little offended does me no harm. That being said don't expect me or anyone else to avoid calling you out on it so as not to offend you.
I can see part of your point, I really can. It's difficult for me to understand that some people are completely mono-sexual, but I've come to understand that some people are so far to the edges that they have no functional bisexuality at all. I can fully believe that gender works the same way.
Quote from: Alainaluvsu on May 05, 2014, 12:19:51 AM
Yeah... I can't go down to doing that. It brings up too much emotional baggage.
I feel this way too;
on another note, it bears mentioning that its not about passing to everyone...for me its just about expressing myself without feeling held back. In fact, having to behave male (my landlords don't know about my transition) makes me anxious and causes me to kinda have a mini-panic attack after almost 5 months of embracing my natural feminine behavior.. Its taxing for me almost like having a hard time breathing. Most of the time when they come over to fix something they are there for a good 2 hours or more, so after they leave i feel mentally exhausted. Considering that behaving male was an act in and of itself (for me) being 100% hot female (if and when that day comes ;) ) and behaving 100% female is a natural response more than it is a desire to be perceived properly... In fact; my wife is always telling me how I'm more of a girl than she is, and I don't even try... its just how I am... and its because of this that I was able to tell my cisfemale friends about my transition, causing them to respond in a non-surprised manner... Had I not always had a female demeanor to my mannerisms and behavior, my female friends wouldn't have felt like their suspicions were confirmed and instead would have reacted with shock and awe as all my male friends did.
While I agree that sometimes other girls feel the need to pretend to have a more feminine behavior (and its practically counterproductive if living a lie was the problem in the first place); for many (including myself) its not an act for passing, its a natural occurrence.
Quote from: LittleEmily24 on May 08, 2014, 02:26:28 PM
I feel this way too;
on another note, it bears mentioning that its not about passing to everyone...for me its just about expressing myself without feeling held back. In fact, having to behave male (my landlords don't know about my transition) makes me anxious and causes me to kinda have a mini-panic attack after almost 5 months of embracing my natural feminine behavior.. Its taxing for me almost like having a hard time breathing. Most of the time when they come over to fix something they are there for a good 2 hours or more, so after they leave i feel mentally exhausted. Considering that behaving male was an act in and of itself (for me) being 100% hot female (if and when that day comes ;) ) and behaving 100% female is a natural response more than it is a desire to be perceived properly... In fact; my wife is always telling me how I'm more of a girl than she is, and I don't even try... its just how I am... and its because of this that I was able to tell my cisfemale friends about my transition, causing them to respond in a non-surprised manner... Had I not always had a female demeanor to my mannerisms and behavior, my female friends wouldn't have felt like their suspicions were confirmed and instead would have reacted with shock and awe as all my male friends did.
While I agree that sometimes other girls feel the need to pretend to have a more feminine behavior (and its practically counterproductive if living a lie was the problem in the first place); for many (including myself) its not an act for passing, its a natural occurrence.
My sentiments exactly. For me too it was never about passing or conforming to some societal standard. It's about being my true self. I've always had a very feminine personality and mannerism. Nothing about my personality or mannerism has changed just because I'm undergoing full transition because it didn't have to. Yes, I'm a bit more of a girly girl than most, but I feel natural and love being a woman. Where things were very awkward for me was pretending to be a guy -something I'm so far from inside I would stay couped up in my home a lot and avoided socializing with other people as much as possible.
So with me there's no more pretending at all because I don't have to. I'm very secure with my feminine girly girl self.
Ally :icon_flower: