it's weird, most things i read or watch about ftm, they don't have much bottom dysphoria, some even enjoy vaginal penetration (not saying that's bad but for me, i can't even imagine wanting that). for me, my genitals are one of the most things i feel bad about. it makes me feel weird that so many others can be happy with their genitals even though they're male, like why can't i be? is it part of my transness or do i have some other issue? i don't know. on the other hand, i don't have much top dysphoria, while a lot of guys do, so.
anyway i don't know how to deal with it. it sucks because it's the most thing (about my body) i feel dysphoric about but the thing that provides the least reliably good results. i feel like t and top surgery could give me the rest of the body i'd like but without a proper dick, what's the point? sometimes i'm scared i'll end up feeling like a muscular, hairy female without the dick to complete it. that's not what i want.
i guess i could maybe be content using a prothestic but i don't know. how do you guys deal with bottom dysphoria if you have it? what's been satisfactory, if anything?
Reframing helps me. I try to think of what's down there as comparable to having hypospadias and microphallus (granted, the "hole" and other aspects are separate issues and the only thing that helps me with that is avoiding seeing/touching that stuff). So, basically thinking of it as, I DO have a penis, I just wish it were substantially bigger and that the urethra went through it. I do want bottom surgery and wouldn't call this "satisfactory", but feeling even slightly better is better than not.
Hi, and welcome! :)
Dysphoria is very much a personal experience, and we each feel it in our own way. Some of us experience physical dysphoria most strongly (as you seem to) but others aren't so worried about our bodies. I experienced strong social dysphoria, followed by strong top dysphoria, with a bit of sadness about my bottom bits. So, some of us feel about our bottom bits the way you feel about your top bits. We're all different, and everyone's experience is perfectly legitimate.
I can also tell you that after top surgery and 8 1/2 months on T, I certainly don't look, sound or feel like a muscular, hairy female. I look like a muscular, hairy, short, spotty, beardy, younger-than-my-actual age male. People who see me in my day-to-day life just see the guy that I am, and they have no idea what's going on between my legs because there's no way for them to tell. And my two biggest problems - social dysphoria and top dysphoria - have almost completely evaporated.
If you have strong bottom dysphoria, why not experiment with packing and see how you get on? I've only just started using a prosthetic myself, and only because my body has changed so much in the past 3 months that it now looks weird to not have a bulge there. I find it very comforting and it looks very natural under my clothes. But most importantly, it's only a temporary measure until I have bottom surgery, which for me (particularly as a gay man) is a necessity.
Man, honestly not a lot helps me with that. I've gotten top surgery and I've been on T around 5 years... The only thing that helps is finding comfortable pants/shorts that fit right. As for getting out there in the dating/sex world.. I've got honestly no clue how I'm going to react because my last gf was when I was pre-everything.... its been a while. Too long really.
I just want surgery. Working on moving towards that now. I feel like even if I end up with some mangled or otherwise messed up looking dick its better than what nature gave me. At least I have an excuse for it looking that way... Somehow even if its awful its less... personal, I guess, than what I was born with.
I just live with the hope that surgery will come sooner rather than later, and try not to think about it all that much. Hard when you have to use public bathrooms and ect. multiple times a day. Hard when EVERYTHING in the world seems to revolve around sex and genital reverences and innuendo...
Packers make me feel even worse. Nothing reminds you what you don't have like a sweaty hunk of silicon in your pants... balls moving all around like no real pair ever would (like up your groin towards your stomach as you squat ect.) If I know I'm going to get a pat down I'll wear one. Sometimes I even remove it when I get past airport security (for example). They work for many people though.
Like other people have said. I don't feel like a hair muscular female. I do, however, feel like a man with no dick. What man wants to ever feel that way, ever. People have huge issues in life when they feel like the have a small dick much less none at all. Yes you can make comparisons and say... but I do have a dick its just an inch long and looks like a girl's clit. That doesn't really work for me. It doesn't take away the emptiness or the shame.
I don't know if this was at all helpful... maybe just.. commiseration?
I would say that my biggest dysphoria is bottom dysphoria, both with what I don't have and what I do have. I sure do get the others too. But for bottom dysphoria, one thing I've heard of is grieving. When it boils down to it, I'll never have the genitals I believe I was supposed to have. I've heard that going through grieving for that can help a lot and if I see my therapist again I plan on bringing this up.
My bottom dysphoria is one of my biggest physical dysphoria problems.
I have never once in my life experienced an orgasm (I am a virgin, but this goes further than actual sex) because my absolute disgust at my genitals have caused me never to be able to masturbate in my life.
I would love to have bottom surgery, but I don't think I'll ever have that kind of money, honestly. I plan on T therapy and top surgery in the future, but I'll have to develop some kind of mindset to keep on living with my (as I call it) "mangina".
One of the worst things I experience at this point as far as dysphoria would be my period. Cis females can say they hate it all they want, but I loathe it to a degree they never could, I think. Not only do I never want children, but it reminds me of my absence of T therapy, and that my body still remains nearly fully female.
Edit 1: To add that last part.
Well we do have proper dicks there just underdeveloped because the testostron didn't wash over are bodies like it was supppse to believe it or not, I get satisfaction out of masturbation mainly because mine still gets hard and I notice it its just tiny so some people understand that we all started out female either way so in other words an adult male sized penis is and oversized clit really. So transguys do have dicks. My only worry is sex I'm straight but ill figure it out whn the time comes.
Quote from: thereishope on May 14, 2014, 10:30:49 AM
it's weird, most things i read or watch about ftm, they don't have much bottom dysphoria, some even enjoy vaginal penetration (not saying that's bad but for me, i can't even imagine wanting that). for me, my genitals are one of the most things i feel bad about. it makes me feel weird that so many others can be happy with their genitals even though they're male, like why can't i be? is it part of my transness or do i have some other issue? i don't know. on the other hand, i don't have much top dysphoria, while a lot of guys do, so.
anyway i don't know how to deal with it. it sucks because it's the most thing (about my body) i feel dysphoric about but the thing that provides the least reliably good results. i feel like t and top surgery could give me the rest of the body i'd like but without a proper dick, what's the point? sometimes i'm scared i'll end up feeling like a muscular, hairy female without the dick to complete it. that's not what i want.
i guess i could maybe be content using a prothestic but i don't know. how do you guys deal with bottom dysphoria if you have it? what's been satisfactory, if anything?
This might offend some people, but I suspect quite a few transguys become content with what they have downstairs because they aren't satisfied with what current bottom surgery techniques have to offer right now. Combine that with the cost of bottom surgery. Of course NOT ALL transguys feel that way and some really to enjoy what they have down there, penetration and all, but it is my speculation that if bottom surgery techniques were to offer *everything* (full adult-sized penis with an unassisted erection etc.), then more guys would be lining up to have it done.
Like you, I don't have much top dysphoria, but I have major bottom dysphoria. Wearing my packer in tight underwear helps me as well as wearing baggy pants as they make me feel like I have a decent sized "package". Sometimes I will adjust the fly to make it look like I have an erection. Exercising also helps my bottom dysphoria some, but not as much.
Quote from: Malachite on May 14, 2014, 11:56:20 PM
This might offend some people, but I suspect quite a few transguys become content with what they have downstairs because they aren't satisfied with what current bottom surgery techniques have to offer right now. Combine that with the cost of bottom surgery.
An excellent point, which leads to something else I wanted to mention: those of us who seem 'happy' (as the OP worded it) with our bottom bits may not actually be happy or satisfied with them - rather, they may simply have come to a state of acceptance.
For some of us, it simply isn't feasible to have that kind of surgery. So the only way to achieve inner peace under those circumstances is to accept that which cannot be changed. I believe this is the kind of mindset that Reuben was talking about: even if we have to do it temporarily, many of us have had to learn to accept our situation so that we can get through the day.
And of course, there are those that genuinely don't mind having an innie, or having it used sexually. YMMV, and it's all good.
Oh well, I don't LIKE my genitals, but I don't HATE them and want to mutilate them either. It's more that I feel dysphoric about the LACK of a penis than I feel dysphoric about the PRESENCE of a vagina. I mean... I don't notice it's there 99% of the time. Periods and bathing are bad, and if I think about sex I feel dysphoric too (I'm single now), cause I just cannot perform as a man like this.
But for the rest... I don't feel it, mostly, others don't see it, mostly, and it is still functioning and all. So why would I feel dysphoric about that in daily life? I don't.
And I'm not sure whether I want bottom surgery either. I would PREFER a penis for sure, but the current results are just non-satisfactory for me. Maybe that will change later on, but I'm not sure. I'll just wait.
I am just a very lucky guy I guess, lol, cause I don't have much top dysphoria either (I have cup A or AA. If I wear a shirt it's almost invisible. If I lift my arms and don't wear a shirt it even just looks like chest (if I don't it still looks too much like (man)boob tho'). But I WILL get the keyhole top surgery, cause.... SWIMMING. I want to swim again without feeling crap.
In daily life, FULLY DRESSED and all, the only things I feel bad about are my face, voice, butt and people that misgender me. When naked... uhu I HATE being naked. Only do it when I have to take a shower.
I don't really have great bottom dysphoria, I mean I would love to have a penis, but I can survive with what I have until bottom surgery gives me results I want, honestly I go back and forth with it, yeah it would be nice to stand and pee without using a stp, yeah sex would be nice to be able to have sex with my gf and feel myself inside her instead of a prosthetic and not get so dysphoric about downstairs, yeah I leave boxers on during sex, and no penetrating on my end, just stick to the clit cause then I can be like ok mini penis, although what we see is on the outside is a small nub, but it extends like 6 or 7 inches on the inside which helps with penetration orgasms, so we have a penis just not outside for people to view...its a confusing thing my bottom dysphoria, I guess its not on my top of to do list yet, right now its T and top surgery and I guess if I have the money and I feel comfortable enough I would do it, but until you get bottom surgery, use packers and prosthetic for now? wish I could of been more helpful, I think dysphoria is to each his own, you know, it has different levels for different people
UppercaseChase made a great video about bottom dysphoria and how he deals with it, maybe it'll help you?
http://youtu.be/MaFvQ9HgeHk (http://youtu.be/MaFvQ9HgeHk)
What I plan to do is to save up to have a metoidioplasty and, in the meantime, use a ReelMagik prosthetic (as lifelike as you can get without surgery IMHO). In later years, if I'm able, I'll upgrade the metoidioplasty to a phalloplasty.
Dealing with it, for me, comes down to not thinking about it. I don't look "down there" when I shower, etc. I pack for everyday use. I don't let my wife touch or see me naked from the waist down. Out of sight, out of mind.
Quote from: FTMDiaries on May 15, 2014, 03:44:21 AM
An excellent point, which leads to something else I wanted to mention: those of us who seem 'happy' (as the OP worded it) with our bottom bits may not actually be happy or satisfied with them - rather, they may simply have come to a state of acceptance.
Yeah, it's like what Malachite and FTMDiaries said. Top is more of a concern for me, because it hinders passing the most (binding doesn't really work for me). I'd love to have a bio-male dick, but given the high cost of the surgery and since not many people see me naked anyways, not having one doesn't really bother me much.
I've had bottom dysphoria since I was 13. It's just gotten worse since I turned 15 and became sexually active. Over the years I would have bad flare ups of jealousy and spite whenever I'd see a penis even in a porno or on my own husband because it just didn't make sense why I couldn't have one either. Finally for my self, I just came to terms I've waited for over 12 years I can wait a little longer.
Even if someone came up to me and offered me the best of the line surgery made penis to date all for free I'd probably not take it because it's not what I want.
I've counted high hopes on science and have set my self a goal of 10 years. By the time I hit 37 if there isn't enough science out there to make me a viable looking and working (at least erections coming naturally and urethra lengthening without all the complications) then I'll settle for what is out there then.
And that's kind of how I deal with it. On hopes that one day all these neat little scientific discoveries we are making happen now, will be available to me someday and even if they aren't I still have some option there for me that I'd be ok with.
Packing helped me a lot in the beginning. Just reaching down and feeling a bulge made me feel normal. Eventually I saved and had surgery (meta) because 'the hole'.... was never gonna be happy with that. If I hadn't had surgery I'd probably still pack to some extent. I still do if going to gay spaces, but that's rare.
this is an interesting discussion. I've dreamt of having a vagina all my life. I'm older and have dealt with this problem a long time, I'd love to have the surgery ,but I doubt I ever can because of the finances. I've developed quite a good imagination over the years to relieve the dysphoria. I can achieve pretty good penetration in my imagination, it's not like real penetration , but I'm able to live with it. My problem beside the financing is my age. I kind of wonder given my time left on the planet whether it's significantly worth having the operation. The HRT is fantastic with the body changing to its proper state. Having real breasts and facial changes is really helping me tremendously. I'm finally looking the way I should of looked from day one. So I'm at a point now whether it's really practical to feel incomplete without the final step. It would of been nice to have started out from day one properly ,but it just wasn't in the cards. I do love who I'm becoming though as far as looking like my proper self. I just love wearing dresses. sorry , just my 2 cents.
It fluctuates with me. Some days it feels like it's not there to it being tolerable and others where it's unbearable and I'm grossly sobbing in the shower or under the covers because of it. Finally having a good packer has helped me out, and I've been pondering if bottom surgery would be worth it for me more now. Part of me thinks it would help and another feels like it wouldn't be worth it because things don't seem that advanced yet.
thanks for the responses, reading them did help.
i'm kinda on the same boat with most people here, wanting the surgery to give better results. i was reading about the 'lab grown penises' thing that MIGHT be available in 10 years time. that would be so freaking great. but it kinda sucks because right now i'm in my college years. as a female, i'm not really interested in sex at all. like...it's annoying because i do feel attraction for people and like the idea of being intimate with them and i want a normal relationship but i feel dysphoric thinking about having sex as a female. on the other hand, if i had a working dick, i think i would finally get to have a normal satisfying sex life.
oh well. it's not in the cards for me obviously at this point. i'm hoping to try it with a good prosthetic sometime when i'm ready. and maybe by the time i'm in my 30s, i could have a lab-grown dick or something...keeping my fingers crossed.
i guess i just wonder if, instead of waiting around, i should somehow TRY to enjoy sex with my vagina. i don't know.
I didn't have an issue when I was young, but I've had passive dysphoria ever since I started having sex at eighteen. I had a feeling of wrongness and a sort of penis envy, but the dysphoria was rather vague, more like wishful thinking at first. Then, I got a steady boyfriend and started having serious problems with penetration down there. At a certain point, I just switched off the feelings. Well, mostly. I still wanted a penis, and I still experimented with packing at home (socks, my boyfriend's wallet, whatever).
I didn't start having really active dysphoria until I started my transition, and even then, the feeling took time to build. Now it's full-blown and keeps on building. I have dysphoria about having a hole and not having a typical penis. I am dysphoric about the innards I have. I have dysphoria about not having testicles. I am dysphoric about peeing sitting down, but I haven't found an STP solution that works for me (I gave up pretty quickly). I have dysphoria about not having a prostate, for Pete's sake. The bad feelings tend to snowball, so I go through cycles. In addition, I have a strong sex drive now, so I indulge it. The more anxious I am, the more I masturbate. The more I jack off, the more depressed I get with the status of my parts. Eventually, I bottom out, bootstrap myself, and start over again.
The only thing that really helps me is packing, and it doesn't help as much as it used to.
Quote from: thereishope on May 24, 2014, 12:38:29 PM
i guess i just wonder if, instead of waiting around, i should somehow TRY to enjoy sex with my vagina. i don't know.
Well, I did the same, wanting to 'be happy with what I've got' and hearing about FTMs who enjoy it. Not surprisingly it was not all it is cracked up to be. Physically uncomfortable because of my hormone situation and being sexually passive was not my thing. When it came to orgasms I could ONLY have them when either fantasising about having a penis or using one (strapon), which was impossible in that situation. Doesn't work for everyone, but that's not to say you should not experiment. In my situation it just confirmed what I already felt about myself and how I really wanted intimacy to be.
Quote from: thereishope on May 14, 2014, 10:30:49 AM
it's weird, most things i read or watch about ftm, they don't have much bottom dysphoria, some even enjoy vaginal penetration (not saying that's bad but for me, i can't even imagine wanting that). for me, my genitals are one of the most things i feel bad about. it makes me feel weird that so many others can be happy with their genitals even though they're male, like why can't i be? is it part of my transness or do i have some other issue? i don't know. on the other hand, i don't have much top dysphoria, while a lot of guys do, so.
anyway i don't know how to deal with it. it sucks because it's the most thing (about my body) i feel dysphoric about but the thing that provides the least reliably good results. i feel like t and top surgery could give me the rest of the body i'd like but without a proper dick, what's the point? sometimes i'm scared i'll end up feeling like a muscular, hairy female without the dick to complete it. that's not what i want.
i guess i could maybe be content using a prothestic but i don't know. how do you guys deal with bottom dysphoria if you have it? what's been satisfactory, if anything?
I have a lot of bottom dysphoria, and I don't like that part down there so I also don't like using it.
Packing helps me feel comfortable in public because it gives me a bulge. But when it comes to being intimate, I can at any moment love or hate using both my dick or a prosthetic. I just try not to think about it much. I'm not sexually active at the moment so it doesn't come up much anymore.
I feel that even after top surgery I will have bottom dysphoria, it may even be worse for me. But I'm hoping to get some kind of surgery or a really good prosthetic.
What I try to do is be happy that t gave me some growth, and see it as a micro dick.
Quote from: thereishope on May 24, 2014, 12:38:29 PMi guess i just wonder if, instead of waiting around, i should somehow TRY to enjoy sex with my vagina. i don't know.
It's your choice. I can't agree (for myself and my personal situation only) with the whole "being content with what you have" and "learning to enjoy it" mentality. Good on those who use this thought process and it works for them, but I'm not going to force myself to do something that makes me sickly uncomfortable and that triggers the hell out of my dysphoria just because it seems like that's what everyone else does.
Do it only if you a) genuinely want to experiment and give it a go and b) you're doing it for yourself and not because you feel peer pressure that there's something "wrong" with you for having bottom dysphoria.
Sometimes, I wonder if FTMs have a lower rate of bottom surgery for reasons other than the current state of the art. People brought up as girls tend to be taught to compromise and put up with things and accept less than full status.
It can have advantages and disadvantages.
I just know the bottom is a much worse problem for me than the top, the top is just much more affordable.
Quote from: Arch on May 27, 2014, 11:13:06 AM
Sometimes, I wonder if FTMs have a lower rate of bottom surgery for reasons other than the current state of the art. People brought up as girls tend to be taught to compromise and put up with things and accept less than full status.
It can have advantages and disadvantages.
That is a possibility, but I've also heard that MTF bottom surgery is MUCH more successful than FTM surgery...Which I guess sort of evens the field out since T is more transformative to an FTM than HRT is for an MTF. There are non-op MTFs though as well... I think that it's more of an individual issue than anything, compromise vs. not compromise, dysphoric vs. not dysphoric...
Also I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who's dysphoric about sitting down to pee, that feeling has been getting stronger and stronger for me, I use my STP most of the time now. I don't have a super strong bottom dysphoria otherwise though (besides no penetration), oddly... Although when I really think about it, a lot of my dysphoria comes from what I can/can't/am expected/am not expected to do. As long as I can do the same things as a man, I'm pretty happy however I accomplish them.
That being said, if there was a reasonable surgery that had cis results, sign me up.