This might be a strange question but does anyone else here not experience dysphoria? I was talking to a friend yesterday who studies gender in Japan and when I told her I don't really experience my body as dysphoric, she wondered out loud whether it might be a phenomenon more prevalent in the West. Growing up in the Philippines, I was never given the memo that being male-bodied but female-acting were somehow incompatible. I'm wondering if the gender-policing and segregating that goes on in the States induces this feeling of people's bodies not belonging to them. Or maybe it's just me? I'm wondering if other people have insights. The way I tend to experience my transness is not I was born in the "wrong" body but that I had a body that I loved but now there's another body I love even more.
For me - now - it's mostly a social dysphoria. When I was younger my body dysphoria was almost crippling, not so much any more.
I do have dysphoria, just not always, and not as bad as many transguys. If you have NO dysphoria AT ALL I don't think you can be defined as transsexual at least (cause if you don't have dysphoria, why would you feel the need to transition?), and as transgender... maybe as genderfluid/bigender? I have no idea how that feels...
But dysphoria can manifest itself in MANY MANY ways, and it differs for each person. It is a very personal feeling, and even if you THINK you don't have dysphoria, you might have it. Besides that don't I care whether you have dysphoria or not. I am not the person to judge anyone on this. I can only speak for myself.
I have experienced dysphoria for a long time now but didnt realise i was experiencing it until i spoke to somebody and did some online research. I think it can appear in many different forms and each persons experience is different :) Quite interested in you having not experienced it and transitioning anyway? sorry if that comes across the weong way, i mean no offence at all. :) Just interested thats all :)
Quote from: mandonlym on May 20, 2014, 08:09:58 AM
I'm wondering if the gender-policing and segregating that goes on in the States induces this feeling of people's bodies not belonging to them.
I'm sure the masculine western culture and its hangups in regards to gender and sexuality have a lot to do with it, esp. compared to other cultures like many Asian ones that are more accepting and fluid.
Yeah I agree with you, I don't feel "wrong bodied", I am just modifying the one I have to the one I would like to have and that suits my personality. My dysphoria I guess is more subtle than others, more like a mumble in the background.
No it's totally fine; I'm hard to offend everyone so please don't feel like you have to be careful on my account. I guess maybe I should be specific and say I don't experience body dysphoria, that I didn't experience wanting to have a different body than I do. When I was living as male and had male body parts I didn't find them alienating or offensive, and I've always from adolescence incorporated women's clothing into my wardrobe.
So I guess I experienced social dysphoria in the sense that I figured out as soon as I started wearing women's clothes full-time and being identified as a woman, I found that I preferred it. And then I didn't want to live as a woman and have male genitals for safety reasons and because I didn't like being fetishized, but I never really actively disliked having a penis. I do find that I prefer to have a vagina. So I guess there was a brief period of time when I was living as a woman but had male body parts when I actively wished to have female parts, but I experienced that as more social (dating would be easier, I can feel safer, etc.) rather than something deeper.
So that's what I mean when I say I don't experience dysphoria. I should look more into the topic as a way of figuring out my experience better.
I can't say I relate. For much of my life I've had both social and body dysphoria. Depending on the day and how I feel, they are sort of equally important. The thing that I can't understand is why I have so much body dysphoria. Was it natural? Or did I come to be dysphoric for social reasons? The social differences were my first triggers as a kid, so maybe it just snowballed and created a mentality that I couldn't escape? I'll never know, yet I've never had a totally normal body either so that only contributed to my feeling like a freak.
In any case, it's really not a big deal either way. The only "test" that should matter in these things is if someone is happier or can become happier in transitioning. I suspect there are probably a lot of people in similar shoes that are afraid to speak up because of all the gatekeeping and politics involved in the trans community. It shouldn't be that way, but it is.
The body dysphoria is pretty bad for me... Basically, the only way I cope with having a male body at all is to force it out of my mind whenever possible, and the rest of the time I kind of exist in this weird state of complete disassociation with my body, like I'm controlling it but it's not a real part of me, if that makes any sense. This still isn't enough, and I desperately, desperately want to have a female body. A lot of times the only thing that keeps me going is telling myself that if I keep hanging on, I'll be female someday, somehow.
It's not one body part more than the other for me. Looking at my penis doesn't make me feel worse than looking at any of the rest of my body, or having to hear my voice. It all makes me feel depressed and I hate all of it.
I also experience really bad social dysphoria, but at least I can get relief from that online, where I can be seen as myself. The only time I get a reprieve from having to live in this body is when I sleep.
I do have body dysphoria bad now. When I was young growing up I played mainly with boys and everything was fine I could do everything they did and no one, including me, ever consider I was different from them. Then the summer between 7 and 8th grade I started developing breasts and got my first period period and everything changed for me before it did for the boys, for I realize that they were not going to see these changes. I have had problems since then seeing and feeling my body as different from cis males, yet wanting to have the normal boys parts.. I tried my first two years of high school and them again in college for a for about a year and a half living and trying to be and do the things cis girls do. Both times I ended up realizing this form of life style was not for for me.
It makes sense that social factors would worsen dysphoria. "Gender policing" simultaneously calls someone's attention more to what they physically have or don't have, and at a minimum makes it more difficult for them to express their gender in a way that is comfortable to them.
It could be argued if someone's dysphoria were purely social, and they were completely satisfied with their body, they wouldn't desire to change their body any further than needed for "social transition".
For me it's a physical problem. My body dysphoria is there even in complete privacy. Social dysphoria is just dung icing on the crap cake.
I did not have dysphoria the way many people experience it. I loved my body and my life as a male. I was driven to transition by the euphoria of realizing that being a female was the way I was supposed to live and how drab in comparison was the pretense I'd put on for fifty years.
I have a sort of dysphoria now when I get images of myself that do not look female, like the thin hair at the top of my head or my eyebrow/forehead shape. They are annoying but by no means debilitating.
I dont have "classic" body disphoria, too. nothing special. in my opinion, body disphoria develop if you are aware of the missing congruence of your body and mind. so you make your body subconscious responsible for your "problem" and so there are parts which shouldnt be there. i think it is body disphoria if you urge for, or really "prefer" the body of the opposite gender while the emotions toward your body are more the way you interpret those feelings for yourself and not the disphoria itself.
greetings
No I don't really experience the body dysphoria either. It's just a body and nature gave me just enough to not be dysphoric in that area. So what If I have an "outie" instead of an "innie", just like belly buttons. Yeah most of society may have hang ups over it but a lot of society don't. But then again I am really not a mainstream society person though and really don't even try or care to fit into that part of society.
I didn't really have any dysphoria until maybe the last year or so. I always had a feeling that I was trans, but never imagined that my mind would begin to reject my body. These days I have sever dysphoria and there are some things about my body that I almost can't stand to look at. I really don't know why it just kicked in. I'm pretty young looking for my age, but I guess that I was able to deal with it better before I aged and masculinized a bit more; I was more boyish then as opposed to manish (still not super manish).
Mandonlym and Suzi, that is my experience as well. It was euphoria, not dysphoria that led me down this path. I spent many years with "Eh, this is good enough I guess" before hitting that "Holy heck, this is AWESOME" point.
It's nice to see other people chime in with experiences that lack extreme dysphoria but are transitioning anyway. I don't think I could go back myself.
I think for me it was/is mostly a physical body thing. The only social aspects of being seen as female that i disdained were the times when i had to alter my appearance at a double standard to males or intentionally in contrast to them. For example having to wear a dress instead of a suit or having someone give me a feminine version of the haircut i really asked for.
I feel very wrong in my body, and i do not believe that its cultural or socialized. Well maybe some of my bottom dysphoria is, but honestly with all the dick jokes out there..... How can you deny their negative effect.
We do live in a culture that says people should be trans only out of medical necessity, and for me that doesn't seem quite right. I can probably live as a man, but why do it given the option of being a more awesome woman? So that's how I've ended up where I am.
Quote from: mandonlym on May 22, 2014, 06:28:09 PM
We do live in a culture that says people should be trans only out of medical necessity, and for me that doesn't seem quite right. I can probably live as a man, but why do it given the option of being a more awesome woman? So that's how I've ended up where I am.
Definitely. Everyone should be free to do what makes them happiest. It seems like a very silly notion that there should be some "misery requirement" to transition.
I didn't used to really have much, if any, body dysphoria. I kind of thought, "Well, if I'm going to have a girl body, at least it looks nice." I hated being seen as a girl by other people, but I didn't necessarily hate my body for it. It wasn't until after I started to try and pass that I started having body dysphoria since my body suddenly was actively a barrier to my transition. Now there are parts of my body that I almost can't touch and stress out that people are staring at my wide hips when I'm in public.
Even still, though, I don't think my dysphoria is as bad as many others.
Quote from: Ms Grace on May 20, 2014, 08:16:51 AM
For me - now - it's mostly a social dysphoria.
I feel the same way. I feel like I'm acting a lot when amongst a group of men, and repressing when I'm amongst a group of women.
Still, I would hate to have further male pattern age related changes.
mandonlym
I was physically and socially dysphoric pre tg diagnosis and low dose hrt. Since then I have become less and less socially dysphoric as my brain seems to be rewiring itself and I am becoming more intuitive, more empathetic and less guarded. I was however physically dysphoric enough to have FFS (focussed on achieving androgynous rather than typical female proportions) and to then start hair removal (face cleared for the first time last friday after 110 plus hrs of galvanic, 66 hrs of galvanic and 8 sessions of IPL - :)!) chest/stomach is almost done, back not too bad but not sure about my forearms; hair growing longer; some eyebrow shaping; and casual clothing is more androgynous. Net effect is that folk appear to sense that I am changing, but have not been able to work out just what is going on. I have told a number of colleagues and friends that I am tg but I am feeling far less physically dysphoric as I become more androgynous and flexible in presentation and more open and engaging socially.
Whereas I started this journey thinking that I would be likely to ultimately transition mtf, along the way I have increasingly been attracted to, and now identify as, non binary and am less and less interested in a binary transition or presentation. It's strange how things work out.
Aisla
Quote from: JamesG on May 20, 2014, 09:06:55 AM
I don't feel "wrong bodied", I am just modifying the one I have to the one I would like to have and that suits my personality. My dysphoria I guess is more subtle than others, more like a mumble in the background.
^^ This
this (and also with the OP) is how i feel also and i couldnt agree more if i tried :)
working this out is/was a huge part of my acceptance of being trans :D
I think you have to have some sort of dysphoria to be trans, otherwise what is it that makes you trans? I don't think it has to be constant or crippling though. A lot of people think dysphoria is hating your body, but it's not. It can be, but that's not all it is. A lot of people think they don't have dysphoria until they learn what it is, and then they realise these things they've been feeling for so long, it's dysphoria.
For myself, I'm quite confused. I have dysphoria, but it's often very mild, and I don't know if it's naturally mild, or if it's mild because I avoid almost all situations that I know make me feel bad. For me, I never even already felt like a guy. I'm always scared to say that, because I'm scared it invalidates me being trans. But I'm being honest. I didn't grow up thinking I'd go through male puberty or anything. I just often felt like I wanted to be, or should've been, a boy. That's still how I feel, because I feel like I've been built using some wrong pieces that have been forced to fit. And I can be that thing even with the wrong pieces, but I don't have to be, and I don't want to be. I want to be me, like I'm meant to be. To some people, that means I'm not trans. A lot of people have their own definition. There just has to be a reason why you're not cis.
Before transition I had social dysphoria, especially around women who were pregnant or had young children. I didn't have a massive amount of body dysphoria. Now I have transitioned I still have that, and I have quite bad body dysphoria.
This would have described me fairly well before transition: "I don't feel "wrong bodied", I am just modifying the one I have to the one I would like to have and that suits my personality."
Quote from: JamesG on May 20, 2014, 09:06:55 AM
I'm sure the masculine western culture and its hangups in regards to gender and sexuality have a lot to do with it, esp. compared to other cultures like many Asian ones that are more accepting and fluid.
Yeah I agree with you, I don't feel "wrong bodied", I am just modifying the one I have to the one I would like to have and that suits my personality. My dysphoria I guess is more subtle than others, more like a mumble in the background.
I don't agree with this at all. Sorry. But my "dysphoria" has been long, intense and unrelenting since I was 3-4. Granted, I have hermaphroditic qualities, genital wise, and so my dysphoria might be a bit different. By the time I was 12 I had breasts and I never went through a typical puberty. So the body dysphoria has been super intense and it has nothing to do with culture. It's my DNA, my chromosomes. Um, but its also not that I feel I'm in the wrong body. I didn't need hormones, per se. My body was feminine, always. I take them anyway. It's the effing penis. I love it on my BF. Yum Yum Yum. But, on me? YUCK!
Quote from: mandonlym on May 20, 2014, 08:09:58 AM
I'm wondering if the gender-policing and segregating that goes on in the States induces this feeling of people's bodies not belonging to them.
We don't have that issue where I live. I was never segregated or gender-policed. I didn't even have issues with men's and women's restrooms - I never used public restrooms in the first place, and didn't have any feelings about it really. I still have gender dysphoria.
For me it has been social rather than physical. I am still working through things but I know that how I have been treated by others over the years or being in certain social situations weird me out and I struggle a lot.
I just wanted to add my experience... I do not generally have dysphoria, just this nagging in the back of my mind that tells me that I shouldn't look the way I should. More than anything, my boobs are annoying and feel out of place. I do not experience crippling dysphoria, but I do identify as ftm.
I didn't really feel any overt dysphoria until I started transitioning. Just a nagging sense in the back of my head that I wasn't really being myself. Now that I'm actually living the life of a lady my masculine attributes cause me no small amount of emotional consternation.
I can really relate to this topic. For me personally I don't feel like its a dysphoria. I'm sure theres a little bit of it there but not a whole lot. I'm never really hated the fact that I'm male. I can say that up til now its been a fairly good life. I made eagle scout and my high school football team won state one year.
To me though Its more of the depression aspect. I've been overweight my whole life and I'm constantly bullied about it. The euphoric part also probably plays a factor in this as well. The more I look back on my past the more clear it becomes in why I feel the need to transfer gender. I feel like I've lived probably about half to a 3rd of my life. So far the male me just has done the best he could, and now its time for the female me to pick up the slack and make life even better. Honestly the more I think about it, the more the desire to change is there.
So once again it may or may not be dysphoria, but I know it will make me happier in the long run
Quote from: Missadventure on January 12, 2015, 01:59:43 PM
I didn't really feel any overt dysphoria until I started transitioning. Just a nagging sense in the back of my head that I wasn't really being myself. Now that I'm actually living the life of a lady my masculine attributes cause me no small amount of emotional consternation.
This is almost exactly how I've felt. I had a feeling like, "I really wish I could be female, but sucks to be me," fairly often, but it wasn't so strong that I was actually unhappy. Just not as happy as I could have been.
After realizing that I could, in fact, make that happen if I wanted to, I've started to feel more of what I consider dysphoric feelings. I have also recognized various aspects of my life that I suspect may stem from discomfort with my gender, but which I didn't "notice" because I hadn't ever considered that it was possible to feel differently about myself. I don't know if that makes sense, but it's hard for me to describe. So I do wonder if part of the cause of this is just having a different idea of what dysphoria should feel like.
In any case, whatever I was feeling, I have exactly zero worry that I'm "not really" transgender at this point. Dysphoria or not, everything in my brain is telling me that I am a woman and I am completely at ease with that. Now, outwardly transitioning is a bit of a different story.... there is plenty of anxiety about that, but I just know it's something I am doing.
Yeah I didn't really get much physical dysphoria for a long time. However, I noticed social dysphoria for quite a while. It just occurred to me when I realised that everyone else wasn't actually pretending to enjoy themselves in gendered society.
I've started to have physical dysphoria more and more now. Only when I really concentrate on it, though.
And yeah, like others have said- when you realise that transition is possible it can change how you feel.
Well there are cultures where other genders are accepted, if you can really be who you are without any kind of idea that what you think is somehow wrong, i believe that body dysphoria would be greatly lessened, perhaps non-existent. But we can't really separate ourselves from our culture so it's hard to say how we would really feel.
But yes, it's possible to be trans without dysphoria, I'd say I know people and that my own dysphoria is greatly lessened, and doesn't seem as severe as a lot of people I know. I've also had dysphoria "move" and change over time, I'd say that much is pretty typical.
--Jay
Quote from: JamesG on May 20, 2014, 09:06:55 AM
I'm sure the masculine western culture and its hangups in regards to gender and sexuality have a lot to do with it, esp. compared to other cultures like many Asian ones that are more accepting and fluid.
Yeah I agree with you, I don't feel "wrong bodied", I am just modifying the one I have to the one I would like to have and that suits my personality. My dysphoria I guess is more subtle than others, more like a mumble in the background.
I had the same question in my mind when I was in the stage of being curious, that is it possible that I am trans* or leaning towards it even though I do not really hate my body? Even now, when the noise in my head has risen to the stage where I can call it dysphoria, the physical self-hatred is not exactly there.
I think it is more about preferring something different and believing that was always meant to be rather than actively hating what I do have.
I do think dysphoria is worsened by society. Ever since I started working in the design branche I learned it does not matter what you look like, they really don't care. But if you are not even allowed to express yourself for who you are like many others, the dysphoria gets worse.
Because dysphoria is not just related to your body but also your feeling. You hear it a lot that transgenders starting with HRT feel calmer and I also notice this. I already was passing before HRT and living the life how I wanted, but the stress was staying.
I do think you can be trans without dysphoria. But even if you do not feel it strongly, you probably do feel it a little bit. Even if it is like; I would like to have this or that* Why else would you change your body if you are fine with the way it is?
Quote from: Polo on May 22, 2014, 11:33:33 AM
It was euphoria, not dysphoria that led me down this path.
Well said.
Quote from: Polo on May 22, 2014, 11:33:33 AM
Mandonlym and Suzi, that is my experience as well. It was euphoria, not dysphoria that led me down this path. I spent many years with "Eh, this is good enough I guess" before hitting that "Holy heck, this is AWESOME" point.
It's nice to see other people chime in with experiences that lack extreme dysphoria but are transitioning anyway. I don't think I could go back myself.
Yes, I can relate to that sentiment. Though not so much euphoria, but rightness and feeling inside my skin, much more so than how bad I felt before.
--Jay
Quote from: Polo on May 22, 2014, 11:33:33 AM
Mandonlym and Suzi, that is my experience as well. It was euphoria, not dysphoria that led me down this path. I spent many years with "Eh, this is good enough I guess" before hitting that "Holy heck, this is AWESOME" point.
It's nice to see other people chime in with experiences that lack extreme dysphoria but are transitioning anyway. I don't think I could go back myself.