I've been wondering. Reading a lot about it, there are a lot of variations. Some people will do 8, others 12 or even 16 day of a cycle or month.
What I wanted to ask, for the people that take it: Do you start taking them to match with the last days of the month (meaning that if a month has 30 days and you want to do a 12 days cycle you should start on day 19), or do you skip the syncing with the month and calculate exact 28 days cycles independent of the month (meaning 16 of no progesterone, 12 days of taking it)?
I just take a constant dose, from what I understand P levels fluctuate in cis women to protect/repair the uterus during a portion of the menstrual cycle. As that isn't something that we deal with there isn't any reason to cycle.
I did originally do a 2 week on/2 week off cycle, ignore the date and just go by the number of days since start/end of the cycle.
Right now I'm on my first pill (taken yesterday night), and be it placebo effect or not, the calmness is being great for somebody that has been having suicide ideations every morning for some weeks. Can't wait to see how I study on it.
I mapped the starts and stops on a calendar, and for now I plan to stick with cycling. Since all my meds are oral and I have more non trans stuff to ingest, I don't want to put more pills so ofter. I should consider changing to E shots...
Progesterone increases in the second half of a woman's cycle to prepare the body for pregnancy, for implantation of the fetus. Without progesterone, pregnancy is aborted. Progesterone also offsets the proliferative effect of E on the uterus, thereby preventing uterine/endometrial cancer.
One needs not take it cyclically as there is really no apparent benefit. But, if your doctor says you should, then do as instructed and ask perhaps why he/she prefers this approach.
Progesterone has a calming/sedative effect that results from the effect of one of its metabolites, allopregnanolone, especially when taken orally, and with food (especially fatty). It helps improve sleep in some and reduces anxiety. This is what you are experiencing. Pretty cool, right? Best to take it before bedtime but I also take it during the day to keep levels steady as half-life is quite short.
My endo wants me to cycle it. I always start on the 16th of the month and go for 12 days. My endo has been working with trans patients for a very long time and seems to know what he's doing so I trust him. Both my butt and my boobs are growing so it must be working.
I'm with Eva here. Same endo, btw. And yes, I love what it's done to my body in just 7 cycles.
If you could both, ask him why he prefers giving it in cycles vs continuously. I'm just curious to find out his reason why. Could be interesting for all of us. :) Thanks.
I find it gets cloying after a week or so and am usually happy to get off that ride. Cis girls cycle as well and my endo found it best to mimic one as well as you can for best results.
Today is day 12 for me and I'll cycle off for about 18 days. Jill is right - it's gets cloying. I love what it's doing to my butt and boobs, but I also constantly have a low grade headache, I'm irritable and a little moody, I'm tired, and I just don't feel at 100%. I am glad that I'm not on it full time.
By the time the next cycle rolls around I will be wanting it again..... I think I must not be right in the head! :laugh:
My endo has me on an IM every two weeks, one with added progesterone and one without. The progesterone definitely gives me more growth, but it also gives me the headaches you talk about and a bit of emotional 'instability'. I get irritable and it gets me down after a while. I'm kind of glad when that two weeks is over, but I'm pretty pleased with the boost it seems to give to my breasts and hips.
Does the growth you girls experience with the addition of progesterone stay permenantly throughout the half of the month when progesterone isn't present? My biggest concern with cycling is (probably due to how little I know about progesterone) for example body builders who take testosterone gain a lot of muscle - but once they stop taking that extra testosterone, their bodies cannot naturally sustain the amount of muscle they gained and it decreases back. Are there any similar effects to this when you start/stop that you all have noticed?
Quote from: teeg on May 28, 2014, 07:40:50 AM
Does the growth you girls experience with the addition of progesterone stay permenantly throughout the half of the month when progesterone isn't present? My biggest concern with cycling is (probably due to how little I know about progesterone) for example body builders who take testosterone gain a lot of muscle - but once they stop taking that extra testosterone, their bodies cannot naturally sustain the amount of muscle they gained and it decreases back. Are there any similar effects to this when you start/stop that you all have noticed?
My growth stays teeg.
Mine certainly aren't getting smaller.
Quote from: Jill F on May 27, 2014, 08:10:55 PM
I find it gets cloying after a week or so and am usually happy to get off that ride. Cis girls cycle as well and my endo found it best to mimic one as well as you can for best results.
So, from what I understand, you don't really like it after awhile but you'll keep on taking it since it helps with feminization, butt and breast growth, etc. Gotcha ;)
Yes, progesterone comes in cycles in women BUT that's only because women don't become pregnant...nature intentionally increases production of progesterone for pregnancy, to prepare for fetus...progesterone is not intended by nature to come and go every month and I don't know how healthy it really is to have cycles since really, it's not natural, not intended to be that way. Even some scientists have started to speculate that one factor contributing to breast cancer risk may well be the constant cycling in hormones that ciswomen experience that is clearly not natural. That's why, personally, I wouldn't want to cycle my hormones, be it estrogen or progesterone BUT if your doctor deems it safe and instructs you to do so, then you should. :) Was just my 2 cents. ;)
Quote from: Eva Marie on May 27, 2014, 10:09:00 PM
Today is day 12 for me and I'll cycle off for about 18 days. Jill is right - it's gets cloying. I love what it's doing to my butt and boobs, but I also constantly have a low grade headache, I'm irritable and a little moody, I'm tired, and I just don't feel at 100%. I am glad that I'm not on it full time.
By the time the next cycle rolls around I will be wanting it again..... I think I must not be right in the head! :laugh:
Interesting about the symptoms you describe. Have you told your doctor about them? What does he say?
I've also come across these symptoms occasionally on progesterone and some of these seem very much like pms symptoms or low estrogen. But, yea, I know what you mean about the boobs (butt, haven't noticed anything YET!), they really swell up, the areola becomes more prominent and I also like how progesterone relaxes me. :) There's good and bad that comes with it.
Do you take your progesterone once or twice daily?
Quote from: Joan on May 28, 2014, 05:41:37 AM
My endo has me on an IM every two weeks, one with added progesterone and one without. The progesterone definitely gives me more growth, but it also gives me the headaches you talk about and a bit of emotional 'instability'. I get irritable and it gets me down after a while. I'm kind of glad when that two weeks is over, but I'm pretty pleased with the boost it seems to give to my breasts and hips.
If bio-identical progesterone is given in injectable, then it will only last 1-2 days as it has a very short half-life. So, it's probably not progesterone. I'm thinking it's probably Depot-Provera, a progestin, (medroxyprogesterone acetate) which tends to cause depression and irritability in some OR, less likely (but still possible), 17alpha hydroxyprogesterone caproate (Proluton-Depot), another progestin.
It's very important to make the distinction between progesterone and its analogues for others who read us. There is a significant difference between these compounds.
Quote from: KayXo on May 28, 2014, 10:39:25 AM
Interesting about the symptoms you describe. Have you told your doctor about them? What does he say?
I've also come across these symptoms occasionally on progesterone and some of these seem very much like pms symptoms or low estrogen. But, yea, I know what you mean about the boobs (butt, haven't noticed anything YET!), they really swell up, the areola becomes more prominent and I also like how progesterone relaxes me. :) There's good and bad that comes with it.
Do you take your progesterone once or twice daily?
Yes. I have discussed the way I feel and he did not seem concerned so I quit worrying about it. I take it once a day.
Quote from: Eva Marie on May 28, 2014, 08:16:43 AM
My growth stays teeg.
Thanks for the info. :) All of you cycle progesterone and all of you are experiencing positive results, those are good odds!
I'd be interested to know which kind of progesterone you all are on, especially so I know which kind I should look for my endocrinologist to prescribe?
Quote from: teeg on May 28, 2014, 05:41:59 PM
Thanks for the info. :) All of you cycle progesterone and all of you are experiencing positive results, those are good odds!
I'd be interested to know which kind of progesterone you all are on, especially so I know which kind I should look for my endocrinologist to prescribe?
Teeg-
I am taking the oral version of progesterone. It's the bio-identical form called prometrium. Prometrium is available in a generic now and I get mine at Walmart. It just says "progesterone" on the label.
Teeg,
I get a quarterly subdermal implant, but also suppliment it with Microgest (oral) on a cycle of 14-15 days on and 14-13 days off. Also yes, you want a progesterone and not progestin. Very different molecules.
Well, day #03 of the cycle. Still feeling quite calm, but now my breasts are hurting a bit. Yay, I guess. I'm going to hope it's actual growth and not high prolactines (no fluid discharge).
The first time I transitioned, my doctor and endo put me on a 18 day Estrogen only then 12 day Estrogen & Progesterone cycle. After about the 3 month period I really started to notice the difference, especially as I was by then living with my best girl friend Alison and some how we both appeared to sync. At the end of my E only cycle I started to get quite irritable with strange cramps and that's about the time my girlfriend started to get her PMS and period. I knew by the third cycle immediately when I should start on my Progesterone plus regime and I really needed it. It became a real craving. But after the full 12 days of it I was always glad to cycle back to Estrogen only. During my combined days, my breasts started to get a lot fuller especially on the sides of the breasts and after being assigned a Nurse Practioner by my Doctor, the NP showed me how to massage the breast tissue which I then did 4 times daily in circular motions. I was also putting on fatty tissue especially on the upper thighs and bottom. After my 4th cycle I also started to feel quite bloated in my breasts and my Nurse Practioner explained that was the effect of cycling and the fact that I was increasing the milk ducts and lobuli. The main side effects were a dull headache during my combined period normally just the first 4-5 days which Alison always use to say that my body was mimicking her period pains!. After my 6th cycle, my Endo and Nurse Practioner advised me to considered induced lactation as by then the combined disage onafter 6 cycles had given me quite a lot of milk production, with my breasts quite full (I went from a full A Cup to a small C Cup. She recommended I acquire a Double breast pump and express the milk during my combined cycle. She recommended lactation twice a day for 15 minutes each day on the double pump for the first 6 days then increasing to 6-8 times a day of 12 minutes at a time. After about a week, I was regularly expressing milk and the more I did it the more production I got and the more full my breasts became.
Unfortunately I had to change my doctor and Alison moved to another job in a different city and with my new Doctor, she didn't like the idea of me taking Progesterone concerned about the possible mental side effects, so I was advised to stop the cycling. These days I am on a Estrogen only moderate dosage daily. Development the second time around has been much slower
Quote from: Julia (Apple-Whatever) on May 29, 2014, 03:34:55 AM
Well, day #03 of the cycle. Still feeling quite calm, but now my breasts are hurting a bit. Yay, I guess. I'm going to hope it's actual growth and not high prolactines (no fluid discharge).
As far as I know, the only progestogen to raise prolactin significantly is cyproterone acetate (Androcur).
Quote from: KayXo on May 28, 2014, 10:43:52 AM
If bio-identical progesterone is given in injectable, then it will only last 1-2 days as it has a very short half-life. So, it's probably not progesterone. I'm thinking it's probably Depot-Provera, a progestin, (medroxyprogesterone acetate) which tends to cause depression and irritability in some OR, less likely (but still possible), 17alpha hydroxyprogesterone caproate (Proluton-Depot), another progestin.
It's very important to make the distinction between progesterone and its analogues for others who read us. There is a significant difference between these compounds.
Thanks for that, that was really useful. I had my last injection two weeks ago with progesterone, and this time this part of the cycle has been hard. Since Tuesday I've dropped like a stone and have been having some very dark thoughts :(
I had an estrogen depo today and after seven hours I feel much better. I guess the E levels had dropped off. It's never been that severe before.
I asked the nurse today whether it was progesterone or progestin and she was adamant it was progesterone.
Interesting what you say about the half life. Next time I see the endo himself I'll ask him for final clarirification.
If it's bio-identical progesterone, then it makes no sense to do an injection every 2 weeks.
http://www.webmd.com/drugs/drug-53416-Progesterone+in+Oil+IM.aspx?drugid=53416&drugname=Progesterone+in+Oil+IM
"How to use Progesterone in Oil intramuscular
Read the Patient Information Leaflet provided by your pharmacist before you start using progesterone and each time you get a refill. If you have any questions, consult your doctor or pharmacist.
This medication is given by injection into a muscle as directed by your doctor, usually once daily. "
The reason you may have started feeling lousy is because the E levels dropped too much and that is why I usually advise, based on my own readings, to inject E weekly, I actually get them every 5 days now.
Contraception. 1980 Apr;21(4):415-24.
A comparison of the pharmacokinetic properties of three estradiol esters.
Oriowo MA, Landgren BM, Stenström B, Diczfalusy E.
"Peak plasma levels of estradiol and estrone were reached in approximately 4 days following the administration of estradiol cypionate and in a significantly shorter time (approximately 2 days) following the administration of both the valerate and benzoate. One hour after the injection of the esters, the average percentage increases in plasma estradiol and estrone levels were significantly higher in the valerate and benzoate groups compared to the subjects receiving estradiol cypionate. The average duration of elevated estrogen levels was shortest in the benzoate group (4-5 days) followed by the valerate (7-8 days) and cypionate (approximately 11 days). In none of the subjects studied were elevated estradiol and/or estrone levels encountered 2 weeks after the injection of the various esters."
Quote from: KayXo on May 29, 2014, 04:04:55 PM
As far as I know, the only progestogen to raise prolactin significantly is cyproterone acetate (Androcur).
I have the before / after measurements on prolactin from when my CA dose was doubled. Upped a bit, but still in tolerable levels.
Damn, sleeping eight hours is mandatory now. If I don't do it, I fall aslep in the moment I sit down. five days.
And thank you again, KayXo. That's very interesting.
I'm on valerate and that information fits how my mood has changed between the two IMs.
Also thanks for the info on the progesterone. Not quite sure what's going on there.
I really don't want to go through how I felt this week too often, so it might be time to talk to the endo about how to modify the dosage and interval.
Last day of my cycle. In the end, just the calm, more natural libido but without being horny all the time and improved sleep remain. The itch in my breasts and nipple soreness did not last a lot more.
Also, I never got any more emotional, bitchy, etc. In fact, it's as if I have an "emotional limiter" right now, feeling like I am in control all the time.