As supportive as my mom is about this, I get this feeling that she's trying to make it seem like just a phase.
We were in a bigger city than the little town that we live in today and we went to the mall. Well, this mall is kind of strange and there are stores outside that don't have an entrance inside. Anyways, the first store we went to was all these girl clothes. I absolutely hated that. I was more looking for my friend because I know she's such a girly girl and she would look so cute in many of those outfits.
Well, we left that store and I was kind of feeling better, especially when I spotted this vintage looking American flag tank for guys. I would have loved to have it, but alas no money. Something that upsets me is that my mom isn't letting me look at guy clothes at all. Even in the shoe store (I have wide feet so men's shoes always have felt better) I wasn't allowed to look at the men's shoes (I was looking at the Converse). I don't think she noticed I kept glancing at the men's shoes more than at the women's.
Now, I understand where she's coming from. I was taken away from her at birth and then she was told she could never see me again after divorcing my father. I mean, just because I'm going to transition and become male doesn't mean I won't be the same person. She keeps thinking that I don't know myself, yet she doesn't see the little fidgets and such when I think about all these girly things she wants me to do.
I was wondering if anyone else has ever had an experience similar to this. With their parents not wanting them to be a male and trying to turn them into a girly girl.
This happens a lot.
Funny thing is, It happens to me as a trans girl too lol.
Shopping with my dad once and we walk past this clothes store and my dads like you'd like something like that wouldn't you? pointing at the most girlish girly dress id ever seen.
nope not for me. but then he's like but you'd look really pretty in that.
think its because parents have ideas of ideal daughters and sons.
but yeah parent's have no idea.
My family always kept buying me dresses to wear and trying to find occasions to make me wear them. Plus just generally really girly clothes, like floral prints and stuff. Now that I've moved out, it's gotten a lot better because they don't control as much of my life... but I still can't afford to buy my own clothes, so I end up wearing a lot of girly stuff that they've given me X(
Still, I feel like it's gotten less extreme. They've accepted that I prefer less feminine clothes and they've stopped yelling at me when I borrow the JC Penney card and go straight to the young men's section.
Oh yes, I can certainly relate. My mother did the exact same thing to me. As a parent myself, I can sort-of understand why: it's all part of a parent's attempts to train their kids to be a successful member of society. Many parents believe the only way to be successful is to stick to heteronormative, cisnormative behaviour, because they know that behaving outside the bounds of what society considers 'normal' can put you at a disadvantage... and no parent wants their child to be disadvantaged.
In my case, I have an older brother so Mum would take both of us clothes shopping at the same time. First, she'd take us to the boys' section which would have all this cool stuff that I wanted, but I was told I wasn't allowed it because it 'isn't for girls'. She'd buy it all for my brother, though. >:(
Then she'd drag (pun intended) us all into the girls' section where she'd pull dress after dress off the racks, hold them up against me and say "This would look really pretty on you!!!1!" and try to force me to choose between dresses. I would wind up in tears, crying to her that I didn't want a dress - I just wanted normal clothes - in other words, boys' clothes. I wouldn't pick anything she'd select for me, which would end up with one of two results: either she'd just pick a couple of dresses and pay for them, telling me I'd have to wear them... or we'd leave with nothing. She got so sick and tired of my stubbornly refusing the dresses she bought, that she eventually refused to buy me any clothing at all.
That went on for ten years, during which time I went through puberty and my teenage years. My mother didn't buy me any clothing (apart from my school uniform) from when I was about 8 or 9 until I started working part-time and could afford my own clothing when I was in my late teens. In the meantime, I had to make do with wearing my brother's old hand-me-downs. So what if they were faded, torn or holey? At least they were comfortable. And being a few sizes too big for me, they helped me hide my hated curves.
I did learn one useful lesson from the neglect I suffered: I learned to respect my children's wishes when it came to clothing. So when one of my daughters turned out to be very girly and wanted Disney princess dresses, that's what I bought for her. And when the other one wanted to dress up as Spider-Man or The Hulk, that's what I bought for her.
Quote from: FTMDiaries on May 30, 2014, 03:51:08 AM
Then she'd drag (pun intended) us all into the girls' section...
<3
My parents know I only dress in men's clothing now and every once in a while they'll say "what about this?" *holds up very feminine shirt*. "No, mom, I don't like that." "Why not?" >.>
Then I head to the guy's section and say, "This looks cool." I just go there, I don't talk about it or anything. At least she'll buy that for me if it's within reason (like not too expensive or something).
Maybe try emphatically saying "I won't wear women's anymore. "" If you get it for me I won't wear it." Perhaps that might help. Parents can take a while with these kinds of things.
I've told her that I'll do it for one day. I mean she hasn't gotten to do these kinds of things with me as I was growing up (I'm currently 23, jobless, in college, living with her) Maybe when she sees how miserable I am dressed up like a girl, she'll understand exactly how I feel about this whole being girly.
I will say this, except for when I was a little little kid, I refused to wear dresses. I would wear this pair of nice crushed velvet pants to school dances (I loved school dances and having fun with my friends.) All my few female friends (I had crushes on most of them) would be in dresses and half of the people there would ask if my pants were going to be allowed (of course they were)
I think it was in elementary school (except on holidays like Easter) when I would dress like a boy.
Again, I'll give her a day to have time with her 'daughter' before she can accept her son.
That's kind of you. But it isn't something I'd do: I'm more of a 'rip off the Band-Aid' kind of guy. ;)
You see, if you let her have a day with her 'daughter', she may think you're not serious about being male, or that you can easily 'choose' to be female any time you want... particularly if she applies the right kind of pressure. She may take it as proof that you don't know yourself, as you put it. She may interpret it as evidence that you're just going through a phase.
It's entirely your choice, but I would recommend following Evan's example of just asserting who you are and insisting on being yourself.
Your mother doesn't have a daughter in you. She has a son. And the sooner she accepts that, the easier it'll be all-round.
Quote from: ButterflyVickster on May 30, 2014, 12:23:22 AM
This happens a lot.
Funny thing is, It happens to me as a trans girl too lol.
Shopping with my dad once and we walk past this clothes store and my dads like you'd like something like that wouldn't you? pointing at the most girlish girly dress id ever seen.
nope not for me. but then he's like but you'd look really pretty in that.
think its because parents have ideas of ideal daughters and sons.
but yeah parent's have no idea.
I know you have thot abt it, but one thing this tells me, is that you were being accepted as being female and tho it may not be your personal style, your dad is coming to grips with picking the proper clothes now. I would love that.
Quote from: FTMDiaries on May 30, 2014, 11:32:39 AM
That's kind of you. But it isn't something I'd do: I'm more of a 'rip off the Band-Aid' kind of guy. ;)
You see, if you let her have a day with her 'daughter', she may think you're not serious about being male, or that you can easily 'choose' to be female any time you want... particularly if she applies the right kind of pressure. She may take it as proof that you don't know yourself, as you put it. She may interpret it as evidence that you're just going through a phase.
It's entirely your choice, but I would recommend following Evan's example of just asserting who you are and insisting on being yourself.
Your mother doesn't have a daughter in you. She has a son. And the sooner she accepts that, the easier it'll be all-round.
^agreed, I had a sister who swears up and down that she didn't try to force the poofiest and girliest styles on me as a child. I had really horrible dysphoria as a teen (didn't know what it was) relating to my time of the month too so she'd try and make me act 'ladylike' if she knew it was coming. I dressed gender neutral for a long time because my family refused to let me wear what I wanted, and I didn't get to go to prom in my longed after tuxedo (later in life I went to two college proms and made up for it luckily). She got mad at me later saying that she just wanted me to dress nicely which wasn't true. Asserting that I wasn't wearing stuff coded 100% feminine (because I do enjoy some women's shirts and things like flower crowns even as a person in their late 20's) made my sister understand. She luckily doesn't bring it up my teen years in that vein anymore and quite likes my style, which is like a librarian or teacher. My mother suffered the effects of 1950's girl/boy clothes and she's a very butch person so she understands my personal style better.
I regret giving in to them 'just one time' for many occasions that she forced on me, it just made it harder for me to not feel guilty about clothes; and then they believed me less when I said I was trans. I remember the same sister tell me that I was just rejecting my own femininity: which isn't totally true but if it was, then yeah that would make sense as a trans guy lol. When I stopped talking about it and saved up my own clothes I felt better. I took hand me downs from friends and family. Is it possible to get a job or take clothes from family members?
I need to explain one last thing. I was about four years old, almost five, when she divorced my father. I don't really remember much from before that anyways, having blocked a lot of it out. I mean, I remember little visits and seeing her when she would pick up my baby sister, but after the last time (It was the summer between my baby sister going from kindergarten and first grade)
Now, after that, it was from 1999 until 2009 that I was always told terrible things about her and everything. Well, of course, I always thought of her as this terrible uncaring woman. Well, my little sister (I have two sisters. The youngest I call my baby sister and the other my little sister) came and stayed with me and my grandpa for a bit while she was still in high school. I talked to my mom and such for a while. Again, I started getting told that she only wanted the money I was getting from the child support (Which I didn't get it any more by that time pretty much)
Recently (About a month or so ago) I was attacked by a bull (only bruised luckily) and about a day after, I decided to start talking to my mom. Within a few days, I told her. I barely know anything about her and I really still don't know everything either and I trusted her more than my own father. Well, we had decided that it would be better for me to move with her instead of where I was living (stuck in sleath mode cause I'm never telling my father). Things happened and I ended up moving sooner than planned, so now I live with her and my step dad.
Another thing, my mom does look on Susan's as well. She's super supportive and wants me to be happy. Her making me 'girly' isn't about trying to make me stay a girl, it's about her getting memories of things she never really got to do. It's pretty much about her getting memories. Plus they'll make really good before pictures.
Giving your mother a happy memory of the daughter (and I'm saying this because regardless of what we know we are at one time we where all originally our parents son's or daughters) she had before you left is sweet. However make sure she understands that you are her son and while your still the same person the relationship she dreamt of with you will change. (Mother-son dynamics are different to mother-daughter).
As long as she is supportive of you (she seems to be) and willing to help you in your personal style I would say let her have this day BUT please make sure she understands it is and was a one time only deal
Quote from: ReaverMarcus on May 30, 2014, 04:22:19 PM
Another thing, my mom does look on Susan's as well. She's super supportive and wants me to be happy. Her making me 'girly' isn't about trying to make me stay a girl, it's about her getting memories of things she never really got to do. It's pretty much about her getting memories. Plus they'll make really good before pictures.
It's your life, and completely your choice.
But you'd be giving her false memories of someone who never existed. You may find that both of you look back on those pics in 10 years' time and experience regret and a stab of dysphoria respectively every time you see them. Or you may look back fondly; only you will know.
Do you know what your mother never got to do? She never got to know
you. You've only been in regular contact with her for a month, and for that entire month and many years longer you've identified as male. So if that's who you are, what will you gain by playing dress-up as something you're not?
When you got back in touch, I suspect she probably started hoping for all that mother-daughter stuff she's been dreaming about ever since you were taken from her. She's probably spent years wondering what you're up to, and imagining you were being her idealised version of a little girl. Now she wants to live out that mother-daughter fantasy, which is why she's pushing you to try girly things and actively preventing you from having masculine things. It's understandable, but it's selfish of your mother to push for this; it shows a lack of emathy and respect for who you are.
This is why I say it's kind of you to consider indulging her, but I fear you may regret it in the long run. Do whatever you think is right for you & your family, but please be careful not to set yourself - and your mom - up for more pain down the road.
Quote from: immortal gypsy on May 30, 2014, 04:52:26 PM
Giving your mother a happy memory of the daughter (and I'm saying this because regardless of what we know we are at one time we where all originally our parents son's or daughters) she had before you left is sweet. However make sure she understands that you are her son and while your still the same person the relationship she dreamt of with you will change. (Mother-son dynamics are different to mother-daughter).
As long as she is supportive of you (she seems to be) and willing to help you in your personal style I would say let her have this day BUT please make sure she understands it is and was a one time only deal
I do understand that Reaver is my son and I know he is the same person, but you don't know me and my relationship with Reaver will be no different, no matter what gender he chooses. Because my relationship isn't just a mother-child, I also try to be a best friend to my son. I know I'm only the second family member (after his little sister) and he only been speaking to me through FB for a few days before he told me about this. The first thing I said was I will support you in whatever decision you make. He is my child, and no matter if I like his choice or not, I will always support him.
Quote from: supportivemom on May 30, 2014, 05:04:33 PM
I do understand that Reaver is my son and I know he is the same person, but you don't know me and my relationship with Reaver will be no different, no matter what gender he chooses. Because my relationship isn't just a mother-child, I also try to be a best friend to my son. I know I'm only the second family member (after his little sister) and he only been speaking to me through FB for a few days before he told me about this. The first thing I said was I will support you in whatever decision you make. He is my child, and no matter if I like his choice or not, I will always support him.
Can I say busted
Sorry if you took offense. I am grateful that you are supportive of your son. My apologies if you found my comments offensive. As non members look at this website for answers. Occasionally my answers can be very broad sometimes, my last statement was not meant to be a swipe at anyone more applauding two people for finding middle ground (this case you and Marcus) in situations where so many of us even with the best of intentions end up in the most fiercest and destructive of arguments.
Mam, please let me offer my apologies again and with more parents like you around transition would be a lot easier for us all
Quote from: FTMDiaries on May 30, 2014, 04:59:10 PM
It's your life, and completely your choice.
But you'd be giving her false memories of someone who never existed. You may find that both of you look back on those pics in 10 years' time and experience regret and a stab of dysphoria respectively every time you see them. Or you may look back fondly; only you will know.
Do you know what your mother never got to do? She never got to know you. You've only been in regular contact with her for a month, and for that entire month and many years longer you've identified as male. So if that's who you are, what will you gain by playing dress-up as something you're not?
When you got back in touch, I suspect she probably started hoping for all that mother-daughter stuff she's been dreaming about ever since you were taken from her. She's probably spent years wondering what you're up to, and imagining you were being her idealised version of a little girl. Now she wants to live out that mother-daughter fantasy, which is why she's pushing you to try girly things and actively preventing you from having masculine things. It's understandable, but it's selfish of your mother to push for this; it shows a lack of emathy and respect for who you are.
This is why I say it's kind of you to consider indulging her, but I fear you may regret it in the long run. Do whatever you think is right for you & your family, but please be careful not to set yourself - and your mom - up for more pain down the road.
Ok I bolded the parts of this that really upset me.
Let's start with a person who never existed - I exist, being me isn't about my gender. I spent years not even knowing that I was transgender. Many miserable years with my grandparents and only ever feeling comfortable in school around my friends and teachers. The person that exists is the person inside. Just because he's not physically there doesn't mean the female me never existed.
It's selfish and shows a lack of empathy - She has full support of me. Something I wouldn't have got back when I living with my father. My friend (who was also his friend at least we thought they were) told him she is transgender. I watched how he reacted to her and I couldn't stand it. If my mom was selfish and lacked empathy, she wouldn't be the least bit supportive and I'd have less support here than with my father.
Pain down the road for both of us - Yes, there may be painful memories, but there will be the fact that I tried it and she saw it wasn't me. The more painful memories would be the ones of me being forced to live as a female in my father's house because I refuse to tell the a**hole.
Now, try actually reading my post completely. Not just the parts you want to read. Then maybe you can begin to even understand everything that has happened, instead just posting and assuming things (BTW, assume = it makes an a** out of you and me. Mostly
YOU)
Quote from: immortal gypsy on May 30, 2014, 05:24:56 PM
Can I say busted
Sorry if you took offense. I am grateful that you are supportive of your son. My apologies if you found my comments offensive. As non members look at this website for answers. Occasionally my answers can be very broad sometimes, my last statement was not meant to be a swipe at anyone more applauding two people for finding middle ground (this case you and Marcus) in situations where so many of us even with the best of intentions end up in the most fiercest and destructive of arguments.
Mam, please let me offer my apologies again and with more parents like you around transition would be a lot easier for us all
ThankYou
Wowsers. This thread has suddenly become an example of why TOS #15 is such a good idea. I'll save you the trouble of looking it up, and just post it here for your convenience:
Quote
15. Items under discussion shall be confined to the subject matter at hand, members shall avoid taking the other users posts personally, and/or posting anything that can reasonably be construed as a personal attack.
Which brings me to this:
Quote from: ReaverMarcus on May 30, 2014, 05:27:07 PM
Now, try actually reading my post completely. Not just the parts you want to read. Then maybe you can begin to even understand everything that has happened, instead just posting and assuming things (BTW, assume = it makes an a** out of you and me. Mostly YOU)
Can we keep things civil and within the TOS, please?
Reaver, with all due respect, you started a thread saying that you feel your mother, whilst being supportive, is trying to make it seem like you're just going through a phase. You said that she isn't letting you look at guy clothes. You said that she thinks you don't know yourself, and she doesn't see how uncomfortable you get when you think about the girly things she wants you to. You alluded to her not wanting you to be male and trying to turn you into a girly girl. That's not my assumption - that's what you wrote. I don't have anything else to go on because I don't know either of you personally, but I'm here volunteering my support and I can only work with the information provided.
So I've offered you the benefit of my experience, both as a transguy who has experienced something similar (including a tumultuous upbringing and an absent parent)... but also as a parent myself. I've suffered Gender Dysphoria since 1976, and the eldest of the three people I've raised is in his 30s, so I have plenty of valuable experience to offer in both areas - and I've offered all of this to you free of charge. And like everything that's offered for free, it's worth exactly what you've paid for it and I'm more than happy to give you a full refund if you decide it's not for you. ;)
Quote from: ReaverMarcus on May 30, 2014, 05:27:07 PM
Let's start with a person who never existed - I exist, being me isn't about my gender. I spent years not even knowing that I was transgender. Many miserable years with my grandparents and only ever feeling comfortable in school around my friends and teachers. The person that exists is the person inside. Just because he's not physically there doesn't mean the female me never existed.
I know you don't know me, but I'm not the type of person who likes to presume... so if I don't know a newish member very well I'll often go back to their early posts to see how they identify before replying. You've said the following:
Quote from: ReaverMarcus on April 09, 2014, 11:34:37 PM
I've never really been girly and I hate anything dealing with being considered female.
Quote from: ReaverMarcus on April 11, 2014, 11:01:29 AM
I guess I got lucky on most of my childhood photos and looking like a boy. I have to say that I hate my senior photo for high school. You can tell I'm a girl and it pisses me off.
Forgive me if I interpreted those comments incorrectly, but I took them (along with this thread, including the fact that the only time you used the word 'daughter' you put it in single quotes) as an indication that even though you've only recently realised that you're trans*, you've never felt female and have wanted to be perceived as male for most of your life but especially now. If I got that wrong, I apologise.
Quote from: ReaverMarcus on May 30, 2014, 05:27:07 PM
It's selfish and shows a lack of empathy - She has full support of me. ... If my mom was selfish and lacked empathy, she wouldn't be the least bit supportive and I'd have less support here than with my father.
It's selfish. My words, which you repeated. In other words,
this particular act you have mentioned is a selfish act. This one particular act shows a lack of empathy in this one particular area. That does not imply that your mother is a selfish
person, or that she lacks empathy in other areas, or isn't otherwise supportive, or is anything less than a thoroughly marvellous human being. It merely states that this one, specific act that you talked about is a selfish
act. Quote from: ReaverMarcus on May 30, 2014, 05:27:07 PM
Pain down the road for both of us - Yes, there may be painful memories, but there will be the fact that I tried it and she saw it wasn't me. The more painful memories would be the ones of me being forced to live as a female in my father's house because I refuse to tell the a**hole.
I understand - I grew up in an abusive home and I'd never tell anything like this to my abusers for fear of how they'd turn it into a weapon against me. I've offered you general advice here because I don't know the ins & outs of your situation... and as such I've advised you to consider whether dressing up as female again will reopen old wounds or cause you pain in the future. This is something only you could know.
Which brings me to the take-home, tl;dr message from my two posts after you offered to dress up in female clothing for one day, which as you'll recall I have twice called an act of kindness on your part:
It's entirely your choice - do what you think is right for you & your family.The good news is: after taking the trouble to create an account and post to this thread, I'm willing to bet your mother is much more aware of how uncomfortable you feel when she tries to make you do anything girly. Hopefully this thread has sparked a very fruitful conversation between the two of you, and perhaps you can both proceed with a better understanding of each other.
Oh, and SupportiveMom? Welcome to the family, and I hope you find us a useful resource in helping you support your son. There's a very helpful Significant Others section here that could be very beneficial to you. The fact that you're reaching out and trying to learn more about how to help him is absolutely brilliant, and as a fellow parent I applaud you for it.
And Reaver? The Spire is
mine. ;D
Hi FTMDiaries,
I'm Reaver's "girly girl" friend he mentions in his Original Post. I know Reaver very well, likewise, I've known Reaver's mother for a good while now too. Reaver's Mom is the kind of Mom we all wish we had. She is truly supportive of Reaver and a literal jewel as a mother of a transgender child. In addition knowing Reaver's Mom as well as I do, I know why she wants this short time with Reaver as her daughter. Reaver was taken away from her at birth because a vindictive father, his criminal ways, and his family as Reaver's Mom and the father began to have serious problems with their marriage due to domestic violence. Reaver's father can be quite violent. In fact, he has a habit of grabbing women by the throat lifting his victim off the ground as he did so. Because of this Reaver was sent to live with his father's father, another violent abusive alcoholic. I'll save the abuse Reaver suffered growing up in this environment, because while it does have to do with what Reaver is posting about, it's not the main focus of it, and, this is something I'd rather Reaver himself post about when he is ready. Reaver is also very new to Susan's, and while I'm not making excuses, He's not had enough time to assimilate the rules as well as longer time members such as you and I.
Having said that, With this thread Reaver himself is trying to understand why his mother is requesting he go girly for a day or two. While we, as older transgender individuals understand the dysphoria better, Reaver and his mother are just now learning what it is, how it will affect their lives, and what it means for Reaver.
Reaver's Mom only wants what's best for him, and she's even willing to see a therapist herself to better understand what being transgender means. His Mom only wants this day or two with Reaver as a girl to take a few photos, do a little shopping, and have some of the Mother Daughter relationship with Reaver she never had due to him being snatched away from her at his birth as he was. Most mothers of transgender MTF's and FTM's had their Mother Daughter, or Mother Son time with their child before the dysphoria took hold and they came out. Reaver's Mom didn't have that. As a parent myself I can only imagine the horror and despair one would suffer as their newborn child was taken from them, and knowing they would never see him/her again until maybe after the child turned 18 and wanted to know his/her mother. This, is what Reaver is having a hard time understanding and what brings us to the reason for his thread here.
Reaver's purpose for this thread is to reach out to other FTM's that may be going, or had gone through a similar experience to get feedback that will help him understand why his Mom who is so supportive is making this request of him. I myself can say with certainty that Reaver's Mom has no intention of trying to push Reaver toward womanhood with this request. She will support him throughout a full transition if that is in Reaver's best interest.
I am also confident both Reaver and his Mom appreciate your insight into this as well. It is my hope that we can get past the mistakes made in this thread, regardless of who made them, and help Reaver and his Mom as best we can.
I thank you for bearing with the length.
Ally :icon_flower:
It's not supportive at all to push someone YOU KNOW does not want to do something to do it for your own personal pleasure and because you "didn't get to have that mother/daughter time". Your mom needs to stop focusing on what she missed and instead focus on what the future holds for your relationship.