Hello everyone!
I am 19 years old and immensely skinny. I have been on hrt for about 6 weeks now and am starting to notice several changes.
I was wondering if it is advisable for me to start trying to gain weight now? I am quite underweight and I really want to reach a healthy weight, but I also want to develop a female body as effectively as possible! Do you think 6 weeks is to soon? Or will the newly gained fat find it's way to where I want it to (hips, bum and boobs!).
Thanks for your help!
Elizabeth
I would recommend a slow weight gain. Drastically gaining weight will increase your blood sugar levels which have a negative effect on insulin resistance and affect your HGH levels which are important for proper female growth patterns. Also, I would highly recommend micronized progesterone. If someone says you don't need it ask them for research regarding their ill informed opinion. Check out this group for lots of great science based information! https://www.facebook.com/groups/GenderResearch/ (https://www.facebook.com/groups/GenderResearch/)
I was 154 lb when I started HRT and put on a bit of weight.I became overweight quickly and never lost it.My flatmate remained a stick insect,some of us put on weight others don't
Quote from: JessicaH on June 14, 2014, 02:53:14 PMAlso, I would highly recommend micronized progesterone. If someone says you don't need it ask them for research regarding their ill informed opinion.
Let their endocrinologist determine if adding progesterone would be a good decision or not. As for research on progesterone a major Dutch study published that it's worthless in MtF patients. However, many people report that it helped them. "Research" on progesterone in MtF patients isn't anything to stand by.
OP you're on the right track. I tried to cut my body fat as much as I could, then let it come back under the influence of estrogen and I can say it's a much better route to go. Don't re-gain fat too fast. Also be careful, being underweight can be as unhealthy as being overweight.
Teeg- If you have studies to back up your "advice", I'd love to see it. Anyone who blindly listens to medical practitioners is a fool (as much a fool as taking advice on the internet from someone you don't know). Do your research and take it to your doc. There are still docs that prescribe Premarin and provera to trans-women.
What's the problem with premarin?If there's something wrong with it what should replace it?
When I started I really packed it on. I was 135 pound and now I am 170 pounds. I started off wearing a size 3-5 and now I wear a size 7-9 but I think I look much better with the added weight. Ironically I exercise regularly and eat really healthy but cannot seem to get below 160 pounds unless I utterly starve myself. So, I am just happy with who I am now and that is all that matters :)
Quote from: teeg on June 14, 2014, 04:43:29 PM
a major Dutch study published that it's worthless in MtF patients.
Study please...
Quote from: big kim on June 16, 2014, 02:32:32 AM
What's the problem with premarin?If there's something wrong with it what should replace it?
Increasing clotting risks relative to bio-identical estradiol (estradiol 17-beta or valerate) especially when taken non-orally.
HRT usually helps with gaining weight. Eating carbs will make you gain weight but is unhealthy. Some lose weight by just eating fat and protein, with very little or no carbs.
Quote from: KayXo on June 16, 2014, 06:40:12 PM
Increasing clotting risks relative to bio-identical estradiol (estradiol 17-beta or valerate) especially when taken non-orally.
Thanks
Quote from: Fizzletwist on June 14, 2014, 02:27:29 PM
Hello everyone!
I am 19 years old and immensely skinny. I have been on hrt for about 6 weeks now and am starting to notice several changes.
I was wondering if it is advisable for me to start trying to gain weight now? I am quite underweight and I really want to reach a healthy weight, but I also want to develop a female body as effectively as possible! Do you think 6 weeks is to soon? Or will the newly gained fat find it's way to where I want it to (hips, bum and boobs!).
Thanks for your help!
Elizabeth
prehrt I was 120 lbs at 5'10 I had always been underweight, it didn't matter how much I ate but I was healthy nonetheless. Anyways 2 years later on hrt, I'm at a 145. The most I've ever weighed in my entire life. Been trying to reach 150 but its still tough to put on weight. Anyways where your fat ends up going is dependent on your genetics mostly. As I started steadily gaining weight most of my fat went to my thighs, butt and a bit to my boobs. So yes eat eat eat!! Get lots of protein!!
Quote from: big kim on June 16, 2014, 02:32:32 AM
What's the problem with premarin?If there's something wrong with it what should replace it?
If your doctor is prescribing you Premarin you should change doctors. He is not competent to prescribe HRT and the same goes if they are prescribing provera (medroxyprogesterone acetate). Both drugs are synthetic and are not the same as what is made in the body. They both have MANY bad side effects that can easily be avoided by using real estrogen (E2) which is in estrodiol/estrace and can be purchased as a generic for about $10/a month. Same goes for progesterone which should be Prometrium or generic micronized progesterone. Too many doctors are casuing needless physical and mental health problems with the crap they are prescribing. Premarin and provera should both have a "black box" label or taken off the market!!
Weight loss and Progesterone
http://www.cemcor.ubc.ca/files/uploads/Progesterone_for_Symptomatic_Perimenopause.pdf
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3987489/
Quote from: JessicaH on June 15, 2014, 11:58:13 PM
Teeg- If you have studies to back up your "advice", I'd love to see it. Anyone who blindly listens to medical practitioners is a fool (as much a fool as taking advice on the internet from someone you don't know). Do your research and take it to your doc. There are still docs that prescribe Premarin and provera to trans-women.
Quote from: KayXo on June 16, 2014, 06:39:15 PM
Study please...
I don't know the exact name of the progesterone study so I can't find it on the internet. My endocrinologist who's pretty experienced told me about it. Next time I visit them I'll ask if they can point me to it and I'll relay it here. They also told me that although most Dutch professionals administering HRT swear against it, most professionals administering HRT in Boston here in the US swear by it. Googling around for five minutes will prove how conflicting any "research" is on it, at least it did for me. However, from what I've seen on this forum most if not all of the people taking progesterone say they're experiencing good results. My guess is most of the negative studies against progesterone use in transgender HRT are speculation and not actually studying real applications of progesterone in transgender patients.
I agree with what you said above Jessica, while I mostly trust my endocrinologist and follow their guidance, this stuff to me isn't rocket science but most physicians that I've visited with seem inept to figuring out basic things concerning transgender HRT. My prolactin levels elevated and I went through all kinds of tests, only to notice the insert of the Cyproterone Acetate I'm taking says, "may often cause rise in prolactin levels". It took me five minutes to figure out what my endocrinologist couldn't... I wouldn't doubt if I'm not the only one who's had to drag their endocrinologist's feet to get them to administer proper care. I'm not a doctor but it doesn't take any time to google female puberty hormone levels and see that progesterone starts to become present during puberty as does noticeable breast development. Do the two coincide? My guess is yes.
As for weight loss and regain giving better feminization/"curve" results it's a basic fact that fat and muscle doesn't move around. You have to force your body to change, otherwise diet alone, HRT alone, etc., aren't going to do much of anything. Ask any trainer this.
Teeg- Simply ask your endo what the differences are between Provera and Prometrium. If they say they are pretty much the same, find another endo. The biggest problem is that the studies they are familiar with are either based on Provera (MPA) or mixed together and all the negative effects of of the progestin Provera, make it all look bad. Progesterone (P4) is a natural balancer or some negative effects of estrodiol.
Quote from: teeg on June 17, 2014, 11:39:55 PM
I don't know the exact name of the progesterone study so I can't find it on the internet. My endocrinologist who's pretty experienced told me about it. Next time I visit them I'll ask if they can point me to it and I'll relay it here. They also told me that although most Dutch professionals administering HRT swear against it, most professionals administering HRT in Boston here in the US swear by it. Googling around for five minutes will prove how conflicting any "research" is on it, at least it did for me. However, from what I've seen on this forum most if not all of the people taking progesterone say they're experiencing good results. My guess is most of the negative studies against progesterone use in transgender HRT are speculation and not actually studying real applications of progesterone in transgender patients.
I agree with what you said above Jessica, while I mostly trust my endocrinologist and follow their guidance, this stuff to me isn't rocket science but most physicians that I've visited with seem inept to figuring out basic things concerning transgender HRT. My prolactin levels elevated and I went through all kinds of tests, only to notice the insert of the Cyproterone Acetate I'm taking says, "may often cause rise in prolactin levels". It took me five minutes to figure out what my endocrinologist couldn't... I wouldn't doubt if I'm not the only one who's had to drag their endocrinologist's feet to get them to administer proper care. I'm not a doctor but it doesn't take any time to google female puberty hormone levels and see that progesterone starts to become present during puberty as does noticeable breast development. Do the two coincide? My guess is yes.
As for weight loss and regain giving better feminization/"curve" results it's a basic fact that fat and muscle doesn't move around. You have to force your body to change, otherwise diet alone, HRT alone, etc., aren't going to do much of anything. Ask any trainer this.
I found the study you are referring to. I will go through it and post the link and poke a bunch of holes in it. I read a few pages of it and it's a train wreck.
Quote from: JessicaH on June 17, 2014, 09:44:47 PM
Weight loss and Progesterone
http://www.cemcor.ubc.ca/files/uploads/Progesterone_for_Symptomatic_Perimenopause.pdf
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3987489/
Ironically, I started Prometrium with the same aim in mind - to loose weight. It turned out that adding Prometrium has made me constantly hungry and instead of loosing weight, I have gained 3-4 lbs and I am unable to get lower... Sometimes I suspect that my body thinks it is pregnant and thus I should eat all the time - I cant really find any other explanation for this phenomena, cause I have read about others having successfully lost quite significant amount of their weight. I was at 70kg when I started and wanted to go down to 63-65kg, but atm it appears to be deadly stuck at 72 kg :(.
Quote from: teeg on June 17, 2014, 11:39:55 PM
They also told me that although most Dutch professionals administering HRT swear against it
And yet...this Dutch study
Am J Surg Pathol. 2000 Jan;24(1):74-80.
Short-term and long-term histologic effects of castration and
estrogen treatment on breast tissue of 14 male-to-female transsexuals
in comparison with two chemically castrated men.
Kanhai RC, Hage JJ, van Diest PJ, Bloemena E, Mulder JW.
Department of Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery, Academisch
Ziekenhuis Vrije Universiteit, Amsterdam, The Netherlands.
"(...) Hence, combined
progestative antiandrogens and estrogens are
necessary for genetically male breast tissue to mimic the natural
histology of the female breast."
"(...)Hence, Orentreich and Durr9 appropriately concluded from their
theoretical studies that estrogen alone or combined with orchidectomy
may not always induce acinar formation in the male mammary gland.
These authors thought that it could not be determined whether
estrogen, orchidectomy, and progesterone together always produce
lobules and acini, but they inferred that some castrated male-to-
female transsexuals who had received estrogens and progestins for prolonged
periods have breast tissue that histologically simulates
that of the female, that is, with acinar and lobular formation.
9 Our study now shows their hypothesis in general to be correct, but
it does not take an orchidectomy for the acinar and lobular formation
to occur, and moreover, such formation seems to decrease when
progestative antiandrogen treatment is stopped after surgical
castration.
Our findings in patient F indicate that prolonged and
regular intake of proper doses of progestins and estrogens
is needed for the full development and maintenance
of the female histology."
"(...)progestative drugs are known to stimulate
the formation of acini and lobules in females.7 "
The studies on progesterone's contribution to breast structure and formation are plenty! I have at least a dozen, I think. And there's much much more. It's also clear that through its metabolite allopregnanolone, it exerts a positive effect on mood, reducing anxiety and acting like an anti-depressant BUT some girls also report depression from it, increased tiredness...sooo, perhaps it's more anxiety reducing while estrogen is more anti-depressive, giving one energy and motivation.
Quote from: teegit doesn't take any time to google female puberty hormone levels and see that progesterone starts to become present during puberty as does noticeable breast development. Do the two coincide? My guess is yes.
I'm actually not so sure about this one. Breast development starts around the time estrogen rises in girls. But progesterone only enters the equation later, perhaps when breast development is mostly complete. Here is what one doctor says about it (and I do not entirely disagree with him as evidence seems to support his stance) although much of the other stuff he states is downright wrong!
http://www.gires.org.uk/assets/Medpro-Assets/Progesterone.pdf
Quote from: teegAs for weight loss and regain giving better feminization/"curve" results it's a basic fact that fat and muscle doesn't move around. You have to force your body to change, otherwise diet alone, HRT alone, etc., aren't going to do much of anything. Ask any trainer this.
It's quite simple really. Carbs fatten. Female HRT increases fat to muscle ratio.
Quote from: JessicaH on June 18, 2014, 01:14:34 AM
Progesterone (P4) is a natural balancer or some negative effects of estrodiol.
I know about the balancing act on endometrium, reducing proliferation and risk of uterine cancer but otherwise, what are those negative effects? Some transgirls and even genetic women without a uterus do quite well on just estrogen.
Quote from: ♡ Emily ♡ on June 18, 2014, 08:16:51 AM
Ironically, I started Prometrium with the same aim in mind - to loose weight. It turned out that adding Prometrium has made me constantly hungry and instead of loosing weight, I have gained 3-4 lbs and I am unable to get lower... Sometimes I suspect that my body thinks it is pregnant and thus I should eat all the time - I cant really find any other explanation for this phenomena, cause I have read about others having successfully lost quite significant amount of their weight. I was at 70kg when I started and wanted to go down to 63-65kg, but atm it appears to be deadly stuck at 72 kg :(.
Could also be water weight as it appears to increase water retention in some. Since it tends to relax one, one may get hungrier indeed. Another person reporting weight gain on progesterone...oh well! As mentioned on the thread about progesterone, I also speculated that perhaps the short half-life of progesterone and its metabolites could account for negative symptoms so that we feel good at first but within hours, these hormones (and neurosteroids) drop making us feel worst, increasing appetite, bloating, etc. Maybe if we took them 3-4 times daily, we would experience something totally different.
Quote from: ♡ Emily ♡ on June 18, 2014, 08:16:51 AM
Ironically, I started Prometrium with the same aim in mind - to loose weight. It turned out that adding Prometrium has made me constantly hungry and instead of loosing weight, I have gained 3-4 lbs and I am unable to get lower... Sometimes I suspect that my body thinks it is pregnant and thus I should eat all the time - I cant really find any other explanation for this phenomena, cause I have read about others having successfully lost quite significant amount of their weight. I was at 70kg when I started and wanted to go down to 63-65kg, but atm it appears to be deadly stuck at 72 kg :(.
Do you take finasteride?
I also posted a lot of good studies in the Progesterone thread starting here: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,141600.300.html (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,141600.300.html)
Quote from: JessicaH on June 18, 2014, 09:38:11 PM
Do you take finasteride?
Nope, thanks Goddess there is no MPB in my family (if only Finasteride could turn grey hair back into their normal "colour" :/)
Liposuction is always an option if the weight won't go away. I've considered it.
Quote from: Miss Demoness on June 19, 2014, 12:55:12 AM
Liposuction is always an option if the weight won't go away. I've considered it.
Me too, but I dismissed it for financial issues. Anyway, when I started digging into that topic, I realised that people who go for lipo are not complaining about extra 4-5kg... I know where is my problem - I do enjoy both cooking AND eating. And sometimes I cant stop :D.
Quote from: ♡ Emily ♡ on June 19, 2014, 12:57:52 AM
Me too, but I dismissed it for financial issues. Anyway, when I started digging into that topic, I realised that people who go for lipo are not complaining about extra 4-5kg... I know where is my problem - I do enjoy both cooking AND eating. And sometimes I cant stop :D.
I want about 30 pounds (13.6kg) "gone." My only concern is that I will eventually get it all back.
Quote from: Miss Demoness on June 19, 2014, 12:55:12 AM
Liposuction is always an option if the weight won't go away. I've considered it.
But isn't that only a temporary fix? Why not just change how/what you eat (i.e. carbs fatten, fats don't)? Or perhaps just drop progesterone, with your doctor's ok.
Something to consider:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adipocyte
Even after marked weight loss, the body never loses adipocytes. As a rule, to facilitate changes in weight, the adipocytes in the body merely gain or lose fat content. However, if the adipocytes in the body reach their maximum capacity of fat, they may replicate to allow additional fat storage.
Adult rats of various strains became obese when they were fed a highly palatable diet for several months. Analysis of their adipose tissue morphology revealed increases in both adipocyte size and number in most depots. Reintroduction of an ordinary chow diet[clarification needed] to such animals precipitated a period of weight loss during which only mean adipocyte size returned to normal. Adipocyte number remained at the elevated level achieved during the period of weight gain.[5]
In some reports and textbooks, the number of adipocytes can increase in childhood and adolescence, though the amount is usually constant in adults. Interestingly, individuals who become obese as adults, rather than as adolescents, have no more adipocytes than they had before.[6]
People who have been fat since childhood generally have an inflated number of fat cells. People who become fat as adults may have no more fat cells than their lean peers, but their fat cells are larger. In general, people with an excess of fat cells find it harder to lose weight and keep it off than the obese who simply have enlarged fat cells.[7]
According to research by Tchoukalova et al., 2010, body fat cells could have regional responses to the overfeeding that was studied in adult subjects. In the upper body, an increase of adipocyte size correlated with upper-body fat gain; however, the number of fat cells was not significantly changed. In contrast to the upper body fat cell response, the number of lower-body adipocytes did significantly increase during the course of experiment. Notably, there was no change in the size of the lower-body adipocytes.[8]
Approximately 10% of fat cells are renewed annually at all adult ages and levels of body mass index without a significant increase in the overall number of adipocytes in adulthood.[6]
You know, it makes me angry sometimes! When I left on vacation I was 175. When I got back I managed to loose 10 pounds and was right around 165. Two months later (still exercising and eating exceptionally healthy) I weighed in at 171 at my physicians office. 171 freaking pounds!!!! I am cursed and can never loose anything below 160 pounds....like ever no matter what I do! Whatever...WHATEVER! I was truly happy when I was about 145-150 but now I am just getting repulsive and nasty. Oh, did I mention I am only 5'4+ inches? Short little pudgy bitch. It seems like if I even look at a candy bar I gain 5 pounds...