I feel (rightly or wrongly) like this is a more dangerous thing as a transitioning woman, specifically. Certainly it seems that transitioning men are not considered sex offenders for using what the public believes is the "wrong" restroom, if the existence of trans men is even acknowledged.
I quite literally feel unsafe at the prospect of using a public washroom, regardless of if I mostly pass or not.
The biggest problem is that I just don't know how to respond. Typically when confronted with any ignorant and bigoted attack, I find statistical evidence, solid proof to dispute it, as even bigots cannot fight against fact. But there is no statistical data on how many trans people actually are sex offenders, there's no published data on the female to trans female ratio, or any other similar data, and so the bigots have a heyday as they are right until proven wrong, no facts needed.
I find the fact that I don't know how to respond is my biggest factor of fear. I have no argument, no backup plan, no discourse, no fail safe, and quite frankly I have not yet heard a single argument that could convincingly stand up to rampaging accusations in the heat of the moment.
Honestly, if I were MTF and some woman yelled at me for being in the bathroom, I'd just ignore her, finish washing my hands or whatever, and leave. If she continues, ask her to leave you alone.
I don't know what I'd do as a FTM if some guy confronted me in the bathroom. Probably start with ignoring him but if he became more hostile I'd leave.
Kitty,
Your whole post brought up a well of memories from last year for me! It's one of the toughest parts of transitioning, for sure. I hope I can offer some good advice.
You don't need statistics, data, or a well-formulated argument to win in this situation. I'm not normally the type to confront anyone without a careful deconstruction of the other person's viewpoint-but here is different. You're just using the bathroom-you haven't been challenged to a debate, you haven't asked for there to be a conversation about your gender. You, like everyone else, are in there to do your business and then get out.
If someone comes up to you and says "what are you doing here, you aren't a woman", just correct them. You ARE one. If someone asks if you're there to molest their children, tell them the truth: that you aren't. All of the statistics, science, and logic in the world won't help you here-nobody wants to argue in a bathroom, and bigots have a lovely habit of finding ways to circumvent the most solid of arguments to maintain their ignorance. Just tell them the fact of the matter, and leave it at that-any more than that is simply lending validity to their own insular mindset. All they have is their conviction. Use yours, it's all you need.
I Hope this helps!
Being 6'3" I figured I'd get called out the second I walked into a women's rest room. Hasn't happened once. If you pass you shouldn't have too much to be concerned about. Just get in there, do what you need to do, wash up and leave. If you don't act in a way or dress in a way that's likely to get you noticed chances are no one will notice. Not that I've heard all of the stories about cis men who have gone into women's rest rooms for undesirable reason, but have they ever once dressed as a woman to do it? I've heard of cases of cis men being caught in the women's rest rooms and in all of those cases they were not dressed as women.
My first trip to the loo when I went FT was at work, every woman in my area knew me, not a single person had any issues. I did what you do in the loo and smiled and chatted as every other woman was doing.
It's more like the female social club than the female toilet.
Outside of work I have never had as much as a glance, I think the anxiety you talk of is more from scaremongering in the press rather than reality, at least that has been my experience.
It hasn't happened to me in the 15+ months that I've done this, but if it did, I would definitely come up with something brutally scathing to say on the spot, like "I'm sorry, the bathroom for idiots is across the hall." Plus I'd likely be long gone before anyone could be called in to try and do anything about it.
So glad I'm getting my new ID in late July/early August!
The only time I thought it might be happening to me was last year in Las Vegas. After the Motley Crue show, I ended up in a long bathroom line when someone who was pretty drunk yelled something to the effect of, "Oh my God, there's a f***ing MAN in here! Hey, get the f*** out of here." It turns out I wasn't even the person in question. She was just really butch.
It's a bit scary sometimes but thankfully I pass just fine in there. Haven't had any problems. One thing that makes me paranoid though is putting 'it' away, making sure my panties are positioned so they cover it in the unlikely event that someone manages to catch a glance through that small space between the door and the stall. xD It's crazy, I know, but I still do it.
Having been to several hearings at the Maryland State Senate for a transgender rights bill, AKA "The Bathroom Bill" I can assure you that no way, no how, can you ever win over or convince a "Bathroom nut", as the loyal opposition has come to be known by. All the statistics, scientific and medical data mean nothing. Even the Sheriff in a nearby county to state capitol can testify that in the 10 years I think that county had a TG rights law passed there were absolutely no incidents, much less charges, filed involving a TG in a bathroom or locker room.
Simply put, when dealing with an irrational person you are in a no win situation by definition. There mind is made up and the world must be as they want it. Just finish going about your business and leave. Responding to them tends to escalate the situation. Not, may also but is also the far better choice since you cannot rewind and start over.
I just go in head for a stall wait for the coast is clear and out the door. Although a few weeks ago I was standing in line waiting for the ladies room when a security guard said we could use the mens room no one was using it , but no one budged
Quote from: CarKitty on June 21, 2014, 01:14:10 AM
I feel (rightly or wrongly) like this is a more dangerous thing as a transitioning woman, specifically. Certainly it seems that transitioning men are not considered sex offenders for using what the public believes is the "wrong" restroom, if the existence of trans men is even acknowledged.
I quite literally feel unsafe at the prospect of using a public washroom, regardless of if I mostly pass or not.
I think this goes back to the reoccurring conversation about passing. Passing isn't about physical appearance, it is about confidence and attitude. People notice anxiety and fear more than what someone looks like. Using a public restroom is a very similar concept. If you are anxious and are having feelings of doubt and guilt about being there, other people will pick up on it and notice you. If you have the confidence and the true belief that you belong there just like everyone else 99.9% of the time no one will even notice. Admittedly it took me a few outings to gain that confidence.
That being said the only time I have ever had anyone say anything to me just so happened to be the day after I got my new Driver's License in the mail. I had a woman say "You're in the wrong bathroom" I calmly pulled my ID out of my purse and pointed to the "F" gender marker and said "No, I'm not", washed my hands and left.
Quote from: allisonsteph on June 21, 2014, 10:45:02 AM
I think this goes back to the reoccurring conversation about passing. Passing isn't about physical appearance, it is about confidence and attitude. People notice anxiety and fear more than what someone looks like. Using a public restroom is a very similar concept. If you are anxious and are having feelings of doubt and guilt about being there, other people will pick up on it and notice you. If you have the confidence and the true belief that you belong there just like everyone else 99.9% of the time no one will even notice. Admittedly it took me a few outings to gain that confidence.
That being said the only time I have ever had anyone say anything to me just so happened to be the day after I got my new Driver's License in the mail. I had a woman say "You're in the wrong bathroom" I calmly pulled my ID out of my purse and pointed to the "F" gender marker and said "No, I'm not", washed my hands and left.
that's cool
Quote from: stephaniec on June 21, 2014, 09:23:25 AM
I just go in head for a stall wait for the coast is clear and out the door. Although a few weeks ago I was standing in line waiting for the ladies room when a security guard said we could use the mens room no one was using it , but no one budged
You could use the men's room even if men were in there without incident. I have been in the men's room when, on various occasions, cis-women presenting as women have entered and used the toilet without receiving any more than a casual comment regarding their presence there.
There is definately a different standard for (women in the men's restroom and locker room) and (men in the women's restroom and locker room). Women have demanded equality in all areas of life but have refused to allow the same equality for men. Women have challenged all male only sports, exercise facilities, etc. but still demand their female only sports and other facilities. Will that ever change?
I don't think females will make a big deal of it, if your dressed and look like a chick, I'm starting to get looks now using the womens restroom at work (need to start using the mens), but no one ever says anything to me, they give me this weird confused your in the wrong bathroom look and just do their business and don't talk to me, they kind of just ignore me lol
Quote from: Ryan55 on June 21, 2014, 11:25:18 AM
I don't think females will make a big deal of it, if your dressed and look like a chick, I'm starting to get looks now using the womens restroom at work (need to start using the mens), but no one ever says anything to me, they give me this weird confused your in the wrong bathroom look and just do their business and don't talk to me, they kind of just ignore me lol
You would be so cool to hang out with. Just mind flip everybody, you and I. :D
What are you doing in here? Are you even a woman??
Yes as a matter of fact I am, and I'm doing my business and then leaving. What are you doing here? Oh wait, nevermind. Bathroom... ->-bleeped-<-s... I guess I was bound to run into one at some point or another.
Quote from: allisonsteph on June 21, 2014, 10:45:02 AM
I think this goes back to the reoccurring conversation about passing. Passing isn't about physical appearance, it is about confidence and attitude. People notice anxiety and fear more than what someone looks like. Using a public restroom is a very similar concept. If you are anxious and are having feelings of doubt and guilt about being there, other people will pick up on it and notice you. If you have the confidence and the true belief that you belong there just like everyone else 99.9% of the time no one will even notice. Admittedly it took me a few outings to gain that confidence.
This is so true. I have been saying this for years.
Well Said.
Isabell
I accidentally used the women's bathroom last year before I identified as trans. I went in, did my thing, washed my hands and left. It didn't even register to me that the three other people at the sinks were women until after I'd left.
No one said anything to me or looked at me funny (that I noticed) other than the guy who walked out of the men's room as I was leaving the women's. He gave me a strange look and shrugged.
I did have really long hair so maybe everyone assumed I was female, idk.
I did feel bad afterwards, but hey, when you gotta go you gotta go. (I had been on a hot roof in Hawaii for 5 hours)
California recently passed a law that school-aged trans children can use the bathroom of their choosing. Well, here in the very conservative small town I live in, people lost their damn minds! They were all imagining a 16 year old boy pretending to be trans so he can get into the girls locker room. It just doesn't work that way.
I had a few conversations with people about it, and to their credit, everyone's attitude completely turned around when I told them that LA county has had the same law for about ten years without one single incident. Almost a million students, ten years, no problems at all.
I have had an issue yet but if it happened I would whip out my new license and say it says female on here!
Thanks everyone for your wonderful replies!!
Confidence is definitely a big part of it, I agree, and it's good to hear that it almost always goes without incident!
And definitely bigots ruin everyone's life, trans or not (a friend of mine's young elementary daughter got screamed profanities at in the loo because she looked butch), but it's definitely important to remember that these incidents are very rare, I agree.
Thanks again for the confidence boost!
A carry letter from your Therapist may help ease your mind if you are worried about legal issue's. :)
Maybe a little off topic, I have a habit of using whatever bathroom I feel my outfit leans toward, today happened to be male. I got stared at, a little boy commented very loudly about how that dude looks like a girl, and one guy got confused he was in the wrong place and walked out, and as he came back in seemed, well, none too pleased while another guy walked out and waited for me to leave before going in. I kinda feel like if I hadnt been in there to change my child, there mighta been a problem, and it got me thinking... For a transitioning trans woman, what do you do if you get called out in the mens bathroom (the one that you are required by some outdated rules to use in some places)? Ive never had problems using either bathroom before today.
Quote from: Ms Grace on June 21, 2014, 01:38:10 AM
Being 6'3" I figured I'd get called out the second I walked into a women's rest room. Hasn't happened once. If you pass you shouldn't have too much to be concerned about. Just get in there, do what you need to do, wash up and leave. If you don't act in a way or dress in a way that's likely to get you noticed chances are no one will notice. Not that I've heard all of the stories about cis men who have gone into women's rest rooms for undesirable reason, but have they ever once dressed as a woman to do it? I've heard of cases of cis men being caught in the women's rest rooms and in all of those cases they were not dressed as women.
Me being 6'7", this was one of my biggest worries as well. At 3 months of being full time, it hasn't happened. Today I was in the women's room and the stall I went to, the lock didn't work properly and walked in on another woman. By the time she said anything the door was halfway open. I apologized and went to the next stall. (I didn't see anything, thankfully.) I think she was more embarrassed than I was. Later I thought that if it was going to happen, it would have right then.
The only reason I knew it was the lock on that stall and the exact same thing happened to my wife when she went to that bathroom earlier and she told me which stall it was after I told her what happened. Even though I do have a letter, I'll feel better when I get my new Driver's License on Monday with the correct gender :)
Quote from: Ms Grace on June 21, 2014, 01:38:10 AM
Being 6'3" I figured I'd get called out the second I walked into a women's rest room. Hasn't happened once. If you pass you shouldn't have too much to be concerned about. Just get in there, do what you need to do, wash up and leave. If you don't act in a way or dress in a way that's likely to get you noticed chances are no one will notice. Not that I've heard all of the stories about cis men who have gone into women's rest rooms for undesirable reason, but have they ever once dressed as a woman to do it? I've heard of cases of cis men being caught in the women's rest rooms and in all of those cases they were not dressed as women.
On a light note: Back when I had male-fail but before transition, I had women follow me into the men's rooms several times, do a double take and realize their mistake.
Just an aside. When I came out at work one of the guys saw me one my first day and I explained I was transitioning (I was wearing a skirt, boots etc) and he said. 'Does this mean I have to remember to put the seat down on the loo?' I said no I would be using the female toilet 'Thank God for that, I keep forgetting at home and my wife and daughter give me Hell about it'.
Hmmm, well I have yet to receive any severe negativity for using female restrooms specifically, but my method of dealing with negativity towards myself is as follows:
- Keep smiling, stay calm (you have to take the high ground, especially if there are witnesses, DO NOT LOOK ASHAMED OR "CAUGHT OUT!" THAT ONLY VALIDATES THEIR ACCUSATIONS THAT YOU SHOULDN'T BE THERE!)
- Say something like "I'm sorry if you are upset by me being in here, and I can understand your shock, but what you may not know is that I am protected by law to use these facilities." (this will obviously depend on the laws in your country/state etc, but in Scotland we have this right.)
If this was not enough to sate their hatred, I would ask:
- "What is it exactly that bothers you about me? Maybe I can help ease your mind a bit" (This is only really worth doing if you are a confident debater, and if the person looks like they could potentially be reasoned with. I do this to see if I can calm the situation logically, and possibly even change the opinions of a hater just that little bit for the better...after all, these are the ones we have to try and change to make the world a better place for ourselves and others.)
If things then escalated further, my final stance would be:
- "Well I am sorry if me being here upsets you, but regardless of your opinion, as I have said, understand that I am protected by law. I have been polite up until now, but know that this is bordering on a hate crime now, which you can and will be arrested for if this goes any further. Is me being here for 5 minutes really worth you being arrested over? What about the fines or prison time that follow? And of course the media attention these types of thing always cause? Is it really worth it?" (Most people do not like the idea of being publicly accused of a hate crime, and everybody nowadays understands the implications of negative media attention etc on your life, never mind that their opinions could cost them money, jobs and more. Showing people the potential long running ramifications of what is most likely an on the spot moment of surprise driven anger has never failed to get people to back down.)
Repeat this until they calm down or leave. Then move on with your life :)
The way I see it, just trying to keep some core messages banked is the best way to deal with it. There is no point trying to remember lots of statistics etc to counter every variety of accusation out there. Just try to maintain your composure, stick to your points, and most of all, be confident in yourself...or at least fake it xD
In summary
- Keep Smiling, Maintain Control and do not look ashamed
- Inform them that you are within your rights
- (optional)Attempt to discover their problem and possibly try to change their opinion
- Re-state your rights and highlight the ramifications to them personally should they continue to abuse you
- Carry on with life :)
Hope that helps ^^
If someone were to ask me, "Aren't you in the wrong loo?", I'd reply, "Me? I thought you were. The gents' is next door, isn't it?"
My favorite loo story: After a pride parade last year, all of us went to this big hotel for a few drinks. At one point I went into the loo. Somehow I was the only one in there. Huge hotel, people all over the place, yet I was the only one in the loo.
While I was taking care of my business, I heard somebody come in. From the sounds they were making, I told myself, "Must be the cleaning lady."
When I came out of the stall, I saw that I was wrong. It was the cleaning guy. He immediately went all apologetic: "Sorry! I didn't know you were in there."
I felt like screaming at him, "Get the ***** out of here, you ***** pervert!" But I just smiled and assured him he was OK. I hugely enjoyed the irony of the situation.
Since I'm only 5'2" and about as threatening as a hamster I get no hassles or looks. :)
In Madrid, with the whole bar-and-tapas thing my concern is that many stalls, apart from being yucky also have a dodgy or broken lock, and let's face it ladies, while I still can pee standing up I intend to do so. But yeah, one day someone is gonna barge in and find me standing like John Wayne, ahem... :D
Never ever have any issues in the women's washroom.
Sometimes other women will start chatting with me, sometimes they ask me if i have a pad or tampon, other times we all say nothing and leave without a word.
It's always a non-event
Quote from: Julia-Madrid on June 22, 2014, 05:43:11 AM
Since I'm only 5'2" and about as threatening as a hamster I get no hassles or looks. :)
In Madrid, with the whole bar-and-tapas thing my concern is that many stalls, apart from being yucky also have a dodgy or broken lock, and let's face it ladies, while I still can pee standing up I intend to do so. But yeah, one day someone is gonna barge in and find me standing like John Wayne, ahem... :D
You're tall!! Lol jk jk. I wish I was taller I hate being 5'0 it's like everyone else is a giant and I'm a midget :(
5'5 or 5'6 is the height I wish i was.
Our short stature may have something to do with why we pass so well though and easily blend in using the washrooms
Quote from: HelloKitty on June 22, 2014, 06:35:24 AM
You're tall!! Lol jk jk. I wish I was taller I hate being 5'0 it's like everyone else is a giant and I'm a midget :(
5'5 or 5'6 is the height I wish i was.
Our short stature may have something to do with why we pass so well though and easily blend in using the washrooms
HelloKitty, my dear!!
Being so short is an absolute gift for you and me girl...!!! 5'0" is cute, although maybe you battle finding nice clothes? Finally I am a standard woman size - everything just fits. And we can go to the teens section where there are often much nicer and hipper clothes!
xxx
Julia
I usually try to avoid using women's restrooms because I don't yet have an "F" on my drivers license, but sometimes ya just gotta pee. The times I have used the women's restroom I march in confidently, do my business, wash up, and leave. I've even had conversations over the stall walls while taking care of things which was a little unnerving because A) that doesn't happen in the mens restroom, and B) I thought I sounded a lot like a dude at the time and the other person was probably thinking WTF?!?! Overall i've had no issues at all other than being stared at by the ladies waiting in the line when I exited the stall. I'm not quite sure why they stared at me to be honest but maybe I just took too long.
I do have a carry letter from my therapist in case things get dicey but so far it's remained in my purse.
Quote from: HelloKitty on June 22, 2014, 06:35:24 AM
You're tall!! Lol jk jk. I wish I was taller I hate being 5'0 it's like everyone else is a giant and I'm a midget :(
5'5 or 5'6 is the height I wish i was.
Our short stature may have something to do with why we pass so well though and easily blend in using the washrooms
Quote from: Julia-Madrid on June 22, 2014, 09:39:05 AM
HelloKitty, my dear!!
Being so short is an absolute gift for you and me girl...!!! 5'0" is cute, although maybe you battle finding nice clothes? Finally I am a standard woman size - everything just fits. And we can go to the teens section where there are often much nicer and hipper clothes!
xxx
Julia
I am 5'11"...so well over 6 foot tall in heels..my jealousy of you both knows no bounds -.-;
I always intended to either flash my driver's license or my boobs, depending on how confrontational I was feeling. :) In reality, it never was an issue - well, unless you count the couple of times MEN told me I was in the wrong bathroom when I used the men's, and that was my hint to switch to the ladies room. Also, from what I've heard from masculine/butch cis women, the voice also goes a long way towards convincing people; female voice = instant apology. Since 99% of cis people seem unaware that trans women can even have a female voice, they take that as a guarantee that this person is also a cis woman.
(I did have my paranoia justified when, the first time I used a locker room post-op and post-swimming, a little kid yanked the curtain wide open! The mother yelled at *me* for being naked [how else do you change?!], but thank God there was nothing worse anymore for her to freak out about.)
Quote from: Eva Marie on June 22, 2014, 10:01:31 AM
I usually try to avoid using women's restrooms because I don't yet have an "F" on my drivers license, but sometimes ya just gotta pee. The times I have used the women's restroom I march in confidently, do my business, wash up, and leave. I've even had conversations over the stall walls while taking care of things which was a little unnerving because A) that doesn't happen in the mens restroom, and B) I thought I sounded a lot like a dude at the time and the other person was probably thinking WTF?!?! Overall i've had no issues at all other than being stared at by the ladies waiting in the line when I exited the stall. I'm not quite sure why they stared at me to be honest but maybe I just took too long.
I do have a carry letter from my therapist in case things get dicey but so far it's remained in my purse.
And here I thought only
guys talked to other people while they're on the toilet!
Yet another gender-role myth debunked :laugh:
Quote from: HelloKitty on June 22, 2014, 06:35:24 AM
You're tall!! Lol jk jk. I wish I was taller I hate being 5'0 it's like everyone else is a giant and I'm a midget :(
5'5 or 5'6 is the height I wish i was.
Our short stature may have something to do with why we pass so well though and easily blend in using the washrooms
I think there's no doubt whatsoever that our short stature makes us more passable. At 5'3", there is no way I'd want to be 5'6", and if I were only 5'0", I wouldn't complain. I've never once been challenged in the ladies' room. I walk right in and nobody pays the least bit of attention to me. Am I going to complain about my size? Call me a midget if you like. I'm a very happy midget.
Quote from: HelloKitty on June 22, 2014, 06:21:33 AM
Never ever have any issues in the women's washroom.
Sometimes other women will start chatting with me, sometimes they ask me if i have a pad or tampon, other times we all say nothing and leave without a word.
It's always a non-event
In 40-some years of using the women's room, nobody has ever asked me for a pad or tampon haha!
Though I have been given odd/confused looks and told I'm in the wrong restroom a couple times. But not in a horrible way. They were just concerned.
Quote from: Danniella on June 22, 2014, 10:40:14 AM
I am 5'11"...so well over 6 foot tall in heels..my jealousy of you both knows no bounds -.-;
Hey Danniella, I dunno, from your avatar you look really delicate. If I'd been born female I would have liked to be as tall as you are. I have a few very tall girlfriends, and they just look so good in a nice dress, whereas I still look like a hamster! Ah, we can always find something to moan about, can't we ? ;)
Quote from: Eva Marie on June 22, 2014, 10:01:31 AM
I usually try to avoid using women's restrooms because I don't yet have an "F" on my drivers license, but sometimes ya just gotta pee. The times I have used the women's restroom I march in confidently, do my business, wash up, and leave. I've even had conversations over the stall walls while taking care of things which was a little unnerving because A) that doesn't happen in the mens restroom, and B) I thought I sounded a lot like a dude at the time and the other person was probably thinking WTF?!?! Overall i've had no issues at all other than being stared at by the ladies waiting in the line when I exited the stall. I'm not quite sure why they stared at me to be honest but maybe I just took too long.
I do have a carry letter from my therapist in case things get dicey but so far it's remained in my purse.
Are things really this cordial in the lady's bathroom?
You can just go in, sit down and just be all business like #2 with a thermobaric haze cloud wafting up all around you and the lady next door is happily chatting about her facelift or something?
I mean really? I'd feel inclined to keep quiet, probably rather mortified.
Quote from: Julia-Madrid on June 22, 2014, 09:39:05 AM
HelloKitty, my dear!!
Being so short is an absolute gift for you and me girl...!!! 5'0" is cute, although maybe you battle finding nice clothes? Finally I am a standard woman size - everything just fits. And we can go to the teens section where there are often much nicer and hipper clothes!
xxx
Julia
5'4" here. (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Foi60.tinypic.com%2F2mg8qs8.jpg&hash=aa2ea192b57b87daa38a109c2120f0acd95ae312)
My System of 5 alters shares a GAAB male body. In 5 years and several thousand hours of fronting in public, my female alter's gender has only ever been questioned twice; once going into the ladies dressing room, the second coming out of the ladies room. Both were in the first few months after she became self-aware and started to venture out in public. My female alter is a tomboy, and was still learning how to pull off that look and be seen as a woman with the body I use as a guy.
I heard a voice behind me say, "Maam, Maam." When she caught up to me, the girl rather sheepishly said something about the customers being uncomfortable and asked that I use the "family restroom" next time. I was ready to go the mattresses. And I was absolutely floored when my female alter smiled and said "Sure." I saw the relief in the girl's face and then a weak smile as she walked away. That was all there was to it.
Negotiating from a position of least power is an art my female alter obviously has a much better grip on than me. In hindsight I understand her logic; leave them guessing rather than remove all doubt and pick her battles to live to fight another day. I can hear them now if I had whipped out my Carry Letter and pressed the issue like I wanted to do: Go ahead, SIR, you can use the LADIES Room. LOL
if confronted, i plan to reply with something along the lines of "do you bug every girl with masculine features like this? like you expect every woman to fit your idea of what women should look like? are you the kind of person to say women can't be engineers or scientists or shouldn't aspire to success in the workplace because of some preconceived notion of how women act, look, and talk? go bother someone else."
Quote from: Evelyn K on June 22, 2014, 03:11:03 PM
Are things really this cordial in the lady's bathroom?
You can just go in, sit down and just be all business like #2 with a thermobaric haze cloud wafting up all around you and the lady next door is happily chatting about her facelift or something?
I mean really? I'd feel inclined to keep quiet, probably rather mortified.
From my limited sample of ladies restroom visits I'd have to say yes. Going to the restroom is somewhat of a social event with the ladies; that's why all the ladies at a table get up and go at the same time. It would be considered rude and weird not to go when everyone else goes. Absolutely everything gets talked about while everyone is going.
As far as the essence of #2 and conversation - I haven't experienced that yet. I try to take care of #2 at home just to avoid that situation.
If the idea of conversation while going weirds you out you'll love seeing blood in places in ladies rooms that haven't been cleaned in a while.
Quote from: Julia-Madrid on June 22, 2014, 03:03:11 PM
Hey Danniella, I dunno, from your avatar you look really delicate. If I'd been born female I would have liked to be as tall as you are. I have a few very tall girlfriends, and they just look so good in a nice dress, whereas I still look like a hamster! Ah, we can always find something to moan about, can't we ? ;)
The curse of the female brain I suppose, even without dysphoria, we always desire to look slightly better/different or even somebody else entirely xD
I'm slowly getting used to being a tall woman now though...it's somewhat different from being a tall guy, involving great deal more heads turning my way, and it's oft times distressing when I am surrounded by my girl friends...the tallest of whom only just reaches my chest height...
I sure as hell don't feel dainty then xD
But I have recently discovered that I can rock a good dress ^^
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t34.0-12/10483186_598811540217957_7120769395848423203_n.jpg?oh=20b98d5cc3932d96dd83f51a2755b90e&oe=53A97318&__gda__=1403642190_c9119317b0da637bd96bc667ebcc733d)
(I was told I look like Miranda at a party on the weekend, so ofc posing occurred xD )
Quote from: Danniella on June 23, 2014, 03:31:42 AM
The curse of the female brain I suppose, even without dysphoria, we always desire to look slightly better/different or even somebody else entirely xD
But I have recently discovered that I can rock a good dress ^^
Hey Danniella
You look great! And looking on the bright side, you at least live in a part of the world where tall women are completely possible. You've got the cuves and stuff that make the dress look cool, and given your age more curves are just around the, er, bend. So quit moaning lassie, and find yourself some taller girlfriends :D :D :D
I think we need to cast off our insecurities, burn our bras (noooo!), and just be who we are!!
Hugs
Julia
I'm jelly of the small heights, buuut.. I'm shrinking! So maybe I'll get there. xD Actually if I made it to 5' 6", that'd be great, though maybe a bit troubling too. I've gone from 5' 11" when I was a teenager to 5' 7.5" a decade later, and that's fine by me, but I think if I shrink any more I'll have to get mah bones looked at or somethin'. o_O
Also, I may not have used the ladies room much so far (I tend to avoid public restrooms when I can anyway), but from my experience it's all been quiet. Everyone just goes in and out. In fact I linger a bit longer than most checking my hair and re-applying makeup, lol.
Quote from: Julia-Madrid on June 23, 2014, 07:52:24 AM
Hey Danniella
You look great! And looking on the bright side, you at least live in a part of the world where tall women are completely possible.
Thanks...But tall women in Scotland!? xD the average height of a Scottish woman is only 5'3" ...So I am like 9-10 inches higher than most women in this country ^^; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_height#Average_height_around_the_world
Quote from: Julia-Madrid on June 23, 2014, 07:52:24 AM
You've got the cuves and stuff that make the dress look cool, and given your age more curves are just around the, er, bend. So quit moaning lassie, and find yourself some taller girlfriends :D :D :D
Working on the more girlfriends part...but it seems like each one I discover is shorter than the last!!!
Also I just turned 27...I think the boat has sailed re: me getting curves :P
Quote from: Julia-Madrid on June 23, 2014, 07:52:24 AM
I think we need to cast off our insecurities, burn our bras (noooo!), and just be who we are!!
Hugs
Julia
But...but...I like my bras! D:
I essentially don't use public restrooms, because I'm at the stage where I'm starting to confuse people, which at first was mildly amusing, then quickly became old. I would be entering or exiting the men's restroom, going about my business, but actually paying attention to people around me, and men would sometimes stop in their tracks and just stare at me (kinda scary), with their "what is going on" look. Had a janitor just about stop me from entering the men's room. A teenager girl at the airport mouthed to her friend, "This is the men's room?" at the entrance as I was walking out because they were confused if they should go in or not. I'm not at the point yet where I'm comfortable entering a woman's room, but the whole men's room thing isn't happening when you are dressed androgynously and wearing makeup.
Anyone else been there?
Quote from: Danniella on June 23, 2014, 08:43:48 AM
Thanks...But tall women in Scotland!? xD the average height of a Scottish woman is only 5'3" ...So I am like 9-10 inches higher than most women in this country ^^; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_height#Average_height_around_the_world
Working on the more girlfriends part...but it seems like each one I discover is shorter than the last!!!
Also I just turned 27...I think the boat has sailed re: me getting curves :P
But...but...I like my bras! D:
Oh, serves me right for not having done an internet search on the data! ??? Compared to me, everyone is tall, so I have a simple binary category - 0:my height and 1:bigger.
I'm sure you'll get some curves, but maybe like me they won't quite be in the places you want them ha ha ha! Need to give those croissants a map and a compass...
Hugs! Go out there and stand tall...!!
xxx J
Quote from: Ashey on June 23, 2014, 07:56:13 AMfrom my experience it's all been quiet. Everyone just goes in and out.
My female alter likes her coffee and water, probably goes to the bathroom a half dozen times while she is out. Her day starts with Morning Mass at 830 and she comes home after dinner around 830 to wash up and get ready for bed. She's been doing that a couple days a week for five years now, so that's alot of trips to the ladies room. There is the occasional stall chat, or while she is touching up her face, but everyone just going in and out is pretty much what I have observed as well.
(My female alter chiming in)
A bath rooms a bathroom. I'm five 10. I love being flat n tall n rail skinny- it make me feel like a model!!!
Quote from: Julia-Madrid on June 23, 2014, 09:01:39 AM
Hugs! Go out there and stand tall...!!
xxx J
Well I have no choice now do I!? x'D
Surprisingly enough; despite living in a city where people are ruthlessly rude and stare you down like their eyes are sniper rifle's aimed at your head and expect to somehow set them off to shoot you.. i've learned that people down here in Miami are nothing but fearful talk and stare... they don't do anything. I've gone to the bathroom and had some women kinda stare at me or give me a weird look... but they have never said anything to me at all..
Though if they ever did, their choice of words and attitude will determine my response ~ if they ask in a confused tone why I am in there, i will simply tell them that I am there to do the same thing they are doing lol... if they give me attitude, i'd probably ignore them, and if they get on my nerves, i'll effectively bitch their ignorant asses out in front of everyone. Though, maybe a lot of it has to do with the fact that both men and women don't see it as wise to f*** with a 6 foot tall girl.... little do they know that i'm nothing but a fragile little butterfly.... but they don't have to know that ;D
Quote from: Julia-Madrid on June 22, 2014, 05:43:11 AM
Since I'm only 5'2" and about as threatening as a hamster I get no hassles or looks. :)
In Madrid, with the whole bar-and-tapas thing my concern is that many stalls, apart from being yucky also have a dodgy or broken lock, and let's face it ladies, while I still can pee standing up I intend to do so. But yeah, one day someone is gonna barge in and find me standing like John Wayne, ahem... :D
If that is the case then you are not ready to be a real woman. Learn to sit, you will find it to be much more pleasant than standing. I still have my male parts and present as a male but :) have not stood to pee on any occasion since some time in 1997 (over 17 years): sitting definately beats standing. :) Thus I don't have any need for that thing.
ouch...
Quote from: mac1 on June 23, 2014, 02:07:18 PM
Learn to sit, you will find it to be much more pleasant than standing. I still have my male parts and present as a male but :) have not stood to pee on any occasion since some time in 1997 (over 17 years): sitting definately beats standing. :) Thus I don't have any need for that thing.
Your post would have been better like this. Otherwise, it's a cheap shot and just a wee bit hypocritical. You ARE aware that there are some bigots out there that consider post-op chicks as "not being real women"?
mac1- while I don't think you intended for it to be an attack, it did come across like that to some so I thought I would touch base and clear the air here. Just be careful when defining what a real woman is, because we must support everyone regardless of their preferences. Here, it is solely the individual's inward identification of female that defines someone as 100% real woman. Really, genitalia or how you use it has nothing to do with gender.
Plus, I know tons of cisfemales that pee standing up using a pee funnel ;) They aren't any less of woman either now, are they? Lol
Actually one of my cisfemale friends was telling me how she had learned how to pee standing up- apparently by using some kind of special posture & position.
I tend to find myself sitting down 99% of the time unless I walk into a stall and it's just covered in pee. I'll happily not sit down on that or chance it!
Thank you ladies - I shall resolve this privately with Mac1.
Sorry that I used the term, "real women", in a manner that was misunderstood by some of you. It was used as a complement toward those who are fortunate enough to live and present themselves openly as women whether cis or other. It was not intended as derogatory toward anybody.
I respect and am envious of those of you who have been fortunate enough to live your lives as full time women whether or not you have undergone a full surgical transition.
Again, sorry for the misunderstanding. I respect all of you.
I have a problem sitting and peeing because my penis is a lot shorter now. every time I sit to pee I can't push it down between my legs and It squirts straight ahead instead of down very annoying.
Thanks for the clarification mac1, I appreciate it!
Hopefully, too, you understand that I am just looking out for everyone and not offended in any way myself :) Carry on loves!
Quote from: mac1 on June 23, 2014, 07:20:02 PM
Sorry that I used the term, "real women", in a manner that was misunderstood by some of you. It was used as a complement toward those who are fortunate enough to live and present themselves openly as women whether cis or other. It was not intended as derogatory toward anybody.
I respect and am envious of those of you who have been fortunate enough to live your lives as full time women whether or not you have undergone a full surgical transition.
Again, sorry for the misunderstanding. I respect all of you.
Okay, cool. It's just that sometimes, things can be easily misunderstood since we are communicating only through text. But it's good that you cleared that up.
I looked somewhat like a boy for most of my life, and I had a deep voice, and I was lots and lots of times confronted in women's restrooms. Most of the time people thought I had made a mistake. They would sheepishly inform me that I was in the wrong bathroom. Sometimes I just finished my business and let them think they were right, and sometimes I corrected them or argued with them. I do think we have culturally made a mountain out of a molehill with the perceived threat of men using women's facilities. A lot more suffering is caused by this idea about danger than is caused by the actual danger itself.
Quote from: Laura Squirrel on June 23, 2014, 09:22:22 PM
Okay, cool. It's just that sometimes, things can be easily misunderstood since we are communicating only through text. But it's good that you cleared that up.
Friends, you will probably have noted the humour in my post which precipitated this kerfuffle. Let's be honest, transition is a weird process, and I have chosen to deal with mine with as much humour as possible, as the alternative makes my head hurt.
We're all women in our own way, and there's no need to seek absolute purity (if such a thing can even exist!) through over-zealous thought, dress and behaviour. Now, I need to go and put on my makeup, as I have a meeting. Makeup is my choice; others may consider it a societal imposition ;D
Hugs to y'all
Julia