I know I know, God is eternal, he can't die, but, if you read two passages in the bible, it seems to indicate otherwise and both were said from God himself. The first is "I am the alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end" one can perceive that as, he's the end of the world before his kingdom can come, another way of perceiving that is, he literally is the end, so, if he dies, so too will everyone/everything eventually is how I see it unless he makes it so we can survive without him. The second one is different though, it basically states it and it is "For you shall have no other Gods before me, for, there are no other gods beside me, nor has there ever been nor will there ever be after me." The part I want you to focus on is the underlined, more specifically the part where God says "after me." Why would God say "after me" if he can't/won't die someday? We know he can see the future so, he must be aware of his death someday.
So again, What do you think will happen when/after God has died or, is he already dead?
Sorry, i couldn't resist:
http://youtu.be/OhhOU5FUPBE
Quote from: Olivia P on June 21, 2014, 12:52:07 PM
Sorry, i couldn't resist:
http://youtu.be/OhhOU5FUPBE
Oh yeah Olivia. I ain't gonna say that great minds think alike but.... give me more wine and you keep the bread. Even brand new this song is classic Sabbath. Thank God. No pun inteded.
I tend to interpret those verses as God speaking to us about something we can't really wrap our minds around us, but he's explaining via our limited understanding/perspective. So the "after me" part is more of a "after humanity learns of me" type of thing... but is time continually flowing, not really ending. More like a circle, but "after" is one point on it. (Does that make any sense at all? LOL) You know... kind of more of a Doctor Who timey wimey deal. ;)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1266.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fjj525%2Fsylvietgso%2Fwibbly-wobbly_zps24918e2c.png&hash=d657bea53ef7191c77403803cab6c3c24954c26c)
I tend to agree with Sylvie in that the no other gods after Me means that after we learn of the One God then it would be no other gods. But look at the warding, Alpha and Omega, A to Z, beginning to the end yet we hear of an Eternal Heaven.
Ok, well, this like most of the bible is a good example of the bible being able to be interpreted in different ways. Seeing as that's been established, I'd like you all to be open minded to the interpretation I brought forth, IF and I do mean IF my interpretation is correct, and God does die in the future or is already dead then, what do you think will happen when/after God has died or, is he already dead?
Essentially, in answer to your question; I haven't got the foggiest clue. I don't believe He is dead, and I don't think I'm going to around, if or when that ever happens. Not that my presence would be influential at the time should I so be. So it serves little purpose to contemplate the matter any further. I have other more influential matters to focus on at the present, which I think are far more important.
Nice thought anyway
Huggs
Catherine
Quote from: Shana-chan on June 23, 2014, 10:13:31 AM
Ok, well, this like most of the bible is a good example of the bible being able to be interpreted in different ways. Seeing as that's been established, I'd like you all to be open minded to the interpretation I brought forth, IF and I do mean IF my interpretation is correct, and God does die in the future or is already dead then, what do you think will happen when/after God has died or, is he already dead?
I just really don't know. To know the answer or even to speculate the answer we would have to know who or what God is. And would have to know the nature of God. The big problem is that it is a paradox because to answer one, would have to know the other. The possiblities are as endless as infinity. But since the bible also mentions that we can have eternal life and we were created in the same Image of God, then I would say that God is eternal.
The problem is that the Bible was written by men and inspired by God but still written by men and the understanding of the world and Universe at that time in which it was written was fairly limited. We have evolved since that time to understand more about our world and Universe than those that wrote the texts could ever comprehend, yet God still eludes us.
OK so to put such a complicated philosphical question out there and try to get answers is completely impossible. If we exist in the mind of God and therefore a creation like that and God was dead we would be non existant. If the birth of God or God created the so called Big Bang and God died I imagine It may be a big suck sort of the opposite of the big bang.
Now we have to talk about the mind of man instead of the mind of God. Man has an icessant need for a beginning and end. Man needs to see time as a linear event in the way of a timeline in that there was a Big Bang the beginning so there must be an end too. Not too long ago science debated whether or not th universe may collapse back in on itself and therefore an ending. What if the universe has always been and there was no beginning and there will be no end to it? So the meaning my not even be how we percieve it to be. What is the beginning and the end in our minds? Nothing before the beginning and nothing after the end and in between
everything. I think that passage you refer to pertains to God being everything more than life or death. The alpha and omega. The beginning of the greek alphabet and the end of the greek alphabet with all of the rest of the alphabet in between. The Bible also mentions God's Eternal Love and if God can Love us eternally, then God is eternal. A paradox.
So ya' see Shana-chan without knowing what or who God is and not even being able to comprehend the nature of God. That question is non answerable. And as open minded as I can be and answer as open minded as I can get is that that passage has more to do more with God being everything more than anything else.
Quote from: Jess42 on June 23, 2014, 11:38:04 AM
So ya' see Shana-chan without knowing what or who God is and not even being able to comprehend the nature of God. That question is non answerable. And as open minded as I can be and answer as open minded as I can get is that that passage has more to do more with God being everything more than anything else.
Yes there are some things that can't be answered, there's no diffident way to "know" what will be, I asked a question, one in which can have many, maybe infinite out comes, but the answer that people can give is still the same. The give an answer they think might happen or be the case. Here are two examples.
1. Is God already dead? You know there's only 3 ways to answer this, yes, no, or, maybe
2. You give an answer to what you think may be the case, for example, if God is dead, and assuming we were able to have children before he died, would we still be able to have children once he dies? That question is asking you to think on it, give an answer, one example is, without God, we can't have kids, so if he dies, no more kids. If we aren't eternal, or lose eternal life after he dies then, all life would end. My best answer to that question and to that example is, yes that's one possibility, another however is, since God can do anything, if he makes it so we can give birth and live without him then it'll happen, otherwise, we perish or something else happens. But, this is what I mean, we all can say what we think may happen and talk about it. I'd like to see people's many different perspectives on this sort of situation and for us to talk about it with each other.
Quote from: Shana-chan on June 23, 2014, 10:13:31 AM
Ok, well, this like most of the bible is a good example of the bible being able to be interpreted in different ways. Seeing as that's been established, I'd like you all to be open minded to the interpretation I brought forth, IF and I do mean IF my interpretation is correct, and God does die in the future or is already dead then, what do you think will happen when/after God has died or, is he already dead?
Gods never gona die, And him saying you shall have no other Gods before me means don't idolize material things or people or even worship other things. Know Jesus died but he rose on the 3rd day and rested on the 7th but he's coming back soon.
Quote from: Brandon on June 24, 2014, 12:04:37 PM
Gods never gona die, And him saying you shall have no other Gods before me means don't idolize material things or people or even worship other things. Know Jesus died but he rose on the 3rd day and rested on the 7th but he's coming back soon.
Just so you know, you misread what I said or didn't read it at all. I never mentioned the above bolded quote, not once, I pointed to two other quotes God said, read them if you're interested.
Quote from: Shana-chan on June 24, 2014, 07:46:08 PM
Just so you know, you misread what I said or didn't read it at all. I never mentioned the above bolded quote, not once, I pointed to two other quotes God said, read them if you're interested.
I did as I already said God never dies though and you had the bolded print in your first post which you misinterpreted.
Quote from: Brandon on June 24, 2014, 11:43:10 PM
I did as I already said God never dies though and you had the bolded print in your first post which you misinterpreted.
Ah, why so I did have the bolded in my first post however, I was referring to the underlined in that post, not the rest of the quote. (Though If I took out part of the quote then, well, people would have trouble knowing where I was quoting it from)
Everything of god is outside of time. he is the beginning and the end? or his end was the beginning. And his beginning at the end??
Nothing after? means god was not then, and nothing before means god was not then either. God sees the future because the future is gods history.
but god is outside of time, meaning time itself is within god. and everything that was, is and will be are as one. and god can do now, something a millennia ago, that will bear fruit tomorrow. for gods power is an understanding of the interconnectedness of all things. but this is all wibbly wobbly.
Gods beginning and end? even they are gods will. to say god is eternal is to say god will never be bored of gods existence. but all gods, and goddesses are god. for even the choice to be they and not know of the others are in gods power. for just as the beginning and the end, god is one and many, male and female. for god is his will, end gods end too will be or was gods will.
all I know is that to assume a human can be certain of anything in terms of god, is to assume a man has the power of god. for what was written can be unwritten, and what was said can be unsaid. but we would not know these changes, because for whatever it changes too, if it changes, for us would always of been what was.
what do I think would happen if/and when god dies? the nothing that was before what was, and the biggest bang the universe has ever seen.
To quote the middle eastern philosopher Rabindranath Tagore, "The spirit of life is many, the spirit of death is ONE, when God is dead, Religion becomes one!!" When God dies, there will be but a single religion on earth.
My personal observation though is from another direction, I also look at God as the Supreme Architect and inventor of the universe and all that is. The creative process has not yet ended, and change keeps happening. When the Supreme Architect dies, or even creates perfection, change shall cease and things within the universes shall be frozen in time, life would cease since every chemical reaction causes a change, and even the nerves of our bodies chemically change with each thought and each pain stimulus, and without those changes life as we know it ceases.
I believe that "Gods after me" refers to Gods that people think up after Jesus came. I think that "beginning and the end" doesn't refer to the death of God, but rather the Second coming, the death of the entire world.
God is fixed, before, during and after. He can die though, Jesus death is evidence and our entire faith is based around this fact. God died on the cross.
Of course, on the 3rd day he rose again as he said he would, nonetheless we know what happens when God dies, beyond the example of Jesus there is no reason to concern ourselve. When he died, he took the sin of every one of his follower and not only made us pure, through his grace gave eternal life through him. It is fantastic, only God could respond to death with eternal life.
Well if it's true that God will die one day.
My guess:
For those who may be in hell, hell will no longer exist
For those who may be in heaven will also find that heaven would no longer exist either as it will deteriorate as well.
Quote from: Shana-chan on June 21, 2014, 12:18:26 PM
I know I know, God is eternal, he can't die, but, if you read two passages in the bible, it seems to indicate otherwise and both were said from God himself. The first is "I am the alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end" one can perceive that as, he's the end of the world before his kingdom can come, another way of perceiving that is, he literally is the end, so, if he dies, so too will everyone/everything eventually is how I see it unless he makes it so we can survive without him. The second one is different though, it basically states it and it is "For you shall have no other Gods before me, for, there are no other gods beside me, nor has there ever been nor will there ever be after me." The part I want you to focus on is the underlined, more specifically the part where God says "after me." Why would God say "after me" if he can't/won't die someday? We know he can see the future so, he must be aware of his death someday.
So again, What do you think will happen when/after God has died or, is he already dead?
I think it refers to salvation. There is the one true God and then the god of this world. The god of this world will come to an end eventually in when the new Heaven and new Earth is created. I think this scripture is telling people that they need to get right with the one true God and accept the free gift of salvation. Otherwise, the end is death.
Quote from: Shana-chan on June 21, 2014, 12:18:26 PM
I know I know, God is eternal, he can't die, but, if you read two passages in the bible, it seems to indicate otherwise and both were said from God himself. The first is "I am the alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end" one can perceive that as, he's the end of the world before his kingdom can come, another way of perceiving that is, he literally is the end, so, if he dies, so too will everyone/everything eventually is how I see it unless he makes it so we can survive without him. The second one is different though, it basically states it and it is "For you shall have no other Gods before me, for, there are no other gods beside me, nor has there ever been nor will there ever be after me." The part I want you to focus on is the underlined, more specifically the part where God says "after me." Why would God say "after me" if he can't/won't die someday? We know he can see the future so, he must be aware of his death someday.
So again, What do you think will happen when/after God has died or, is he already dead?
God is not dead nor will he ever die. However, God did send His only begotten Son, who is also God, so that whoever believes in Him, may not perish, but have eternal life. His Son came to world, died, but raised from the dead on the third day. He broke the chains of death and sin. So will God ever die? No, how can the source of life die?
You become the ubermensch?
In my opinion, there never was a god to die in a literal sense, though one could argue it's possible for it to die a metaphorical death, depending on your perspective. For example, the god that I once feared greatly, no longer exists to me like it once did. As for whether god does exist outside of our minds, it's something I doubt greatly, but there is no way anyone can prove or disprove entirely. Therefore, it doesn't matter to much to me.
Quote from: Shana-chan on June 21, 2014, 12:18:26 PM
I know I know, God is eternal, he can't die, but, if you read two passages in the bible, it seems to indicate otherwise and both were said from God himself. The first is "I am the alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end"
Well, this quote, attributed to Jesus, only happens in the gospel of John. Most Christians biblical scholars believe that the gospel of John is but a fabrication... but that is another thread so to speak. What I can tell you is that the quote is wrong translation of the Aramaic as the last letter of the Aramaic alphabet is not omega but rather tau... but all of these ^^^ is really inconsequential...
It seems to me that what Jesus meant was that by closing the alphabet, he left no room for other folks to teach about G-d. Using "words" was a common Hebrew/Aramaic practice, and words often assumed "powerful" powers. For example the words abracadabra and amen are Hebrew words with mystical power. Amen which means "so be it" was used as to seal an event, and abracadabra which means "I create like the word" was used as a magical incantation. Do notice the usage of "like the word," which is clearly a reference to G-d.
You can also interpret the "I am the alpha and omega" as "I control your beginning and your end"
While it's been nice reading everyone's opinions and beliefs and such, this thread was never intended for that. This thread asked a simple yet complex question that opens up lots of what WOULD be the case/happen. In other words, REGARDLESS of your belief/opinion this thread and I have been asking you to even if for a moment consider the possibility's of what I've mentioned and asked. If you can't bring yourself to post based on the idea that God may or is dead and all that I said in the OP post then please don't post here at all as it is derailing the actual topic of this thread.
Sorry if this was rude, I am just amazed at how few people even here aren't willing to think outside the box and accept tat their opinion/belief may not be right and as a result, they can't even answer this thread's questions/scenarios. Example, I saw more than I'd have liked that people were saying God isn't dead then they pointed to scripture.. That's not what THIS thread is for, This thread is for what I said in the OP post, if people can't respect this then, I'll get a mod to lock this thread as I'm tired of not hearing what I'd created this thread for but rather hearing the complete opposite which makes one wonder why they bothered to create the thread in the first place.
Sorry if anyone found this rude or took offense to it.
Quote from: Shana-chan on September 13, 2014, 01:42:44 PM
While it's been nice reading everyone's opinions and beliefs and such, this thread was never intended for that. This thread asked a simple yet complex question that opens up lots of what WOULD be the case/happen. In other words, REGARDLESS of your belief/opinion this thread and I have been asking you to even if for a moment consider the possibility's of what I've mentioned and asked. If you can't bring yourself to post based on the idea that God may or is dead and all that I said in the OP post then please don't post here at all as it is derailing the actual topic of this thread.
Sorry if this was rude, I am just amazed at how few people even here aren't willing to think outside the box and accept tat their opinion/belief may not be right and as a result, they can't even answer this thread's questions/scenarios. Example, I saw more than I'd have liked that people were saying God isn't dead then they pointed to scripture.. That's not what THIS thread is for, This thread is for what I said in the OP post, if people can't respect this then, I'll get a mod to lock this thread as I'm tired of not hearing what I'd created this thread for but rather hearing the complete opposite which makes one wonder why they bothered to create the thread in the first place.
Sorry if anyone found this rude or took offense to it.
See, the whole problem is that this question is pretty much nothing but philosophical. What is life and death? To humans it is we are born, we live and either die from an accident, disease or old age. What is Death though? A lot of belief systems think that death is a new beginning. We, as humans see it as the end of ourselves or our loved ones and a finality but what truly happens after we die? Even in dreams and symbology of the psyche, death represents a change. Not an ending but a new beginning.
So the whole question relies on two things and these two things are sort of unanswerable. Who or what is God? And does God even exist in the way we do? And what is death? If there is a consciousness that goes on after the body ceases to breath and then starts breaking down then death is nowhere near a finality but rather a new way of existence. To some people God is dead, metaphorically to them. To others God is alive. To some people death is the finality of this body in this world. But what if the consciousness survives the physical death.
So really Shana-chan, the only answers that can make sense to anyone is the way people perceive God, life and death. That is why you are getting so many differing answers because people believe totally different ways. It really is an interesting post, but if you are looking for specific answers, I don't think you will get them. Because both, God and death, we truly can't understand the concepts just our own perceptions of both.
Well, if you discount the notion of God as magic, then the answer is God ends with the thermal death of the universe, and was born at its creation. If you accept brane theory and a four dimensional universe or something like cosmic foam and a multiverse, then God is constantly being created and destroyed along the decision tree. God in this thought experiment becomes a proxy for space-time.
If, on the other hand, you place belief in a being which exists outside of reality as commonly understood, then the question is meaningless. God, so defined, cannot be created or destroyed, but merely is. What its purpose is also becomes a meaningless construct, because that which is outside of causation must necessarily either be purposeless or the sole purpose possible.
A more interesting question to me is if God is not magic, what possible purpose can a supreme being fill. Yes there are gaps in our knowledge of how the universe functions, but a God of the gaps isn't very satisfying. A God whose purpose keeps shrinking isn't a God. So what would a God, living or dead do? If nothing, then they are irrelevant even if they exist. It just isn't plausible to me that the irrelevant is all powerful.
That kind of leaves God as something outside of reality. What would that look like? Myth I suppose. I don't discount myth as mere fable. The myths of people provide meaning, and direction to lives. Terry Pratchett supposes that God's are real as long as there are believers and when belief dies so do the Gods. When a myth loses its relevance to a society, it rarely dies but morphs into something newly relevant and co-ops the old into something the current society can use. But use for what? To create systems of ethics? To control the conversation? To lubricate the functioning of societal norms?
I think it does all those things which explains why myths and religions persist over time. So if God and myth were to die, would society be poorer? If God was dead would we reinvent something equivalent? I think we would, I don't believe that God exists in objective reality, but the idea of God, is alive and well in psychological reality. I am much more concerned that God is the psychic manifestation of power and is, as it has always been, a tool of manipulation by those who control the conversation.
Peace,
Julie