If so, to what extent is it realistic?
Lookswise, can you get hard/have sex, can you pee with it?
Yes, get the book Hung Jury from Amazon. You can also look at Trans bucket. There is info in the section on FTM surgeries here (but I think the sticky is very old info). Just read the archives. You should be careful as there is a lot of misinfo on lower surgery, quite a lot of it from the trans community. Some of the surgery results I have seen are REALLy early after surgery where there is a lot of swelling and bruising.
--Jay
Metoidioplasty and phalloplasty, with urethral hookup, both allow peeing out of the penis. Metoidioplasty uses enlarged clitoral tissue - erectile tissue - thus the penis can get "hard" spontaneously. With phalloplasty there is the option of an erectile implant, which makes erections possible.
Aesthetics are more difficult to address since it's subjective and results vary by individual and surgeon. A metoidioplasty, generally speaking, is comparable in appearance to a cis male small penis/micropenis. Variables like whether glansplasty is performed affect the final appearance of phalloplasty results.
Seconding the Hung Jury recommendation, it's a good and informative book. Transbucket is a great resource too.
Thanks guys, I will be sure to look into all of this. But one quick thing, is there the technology for a penis that is indistinguishable from a cisguys penis?
Quote from: ScottyMac on June 23, 2014, 11:34:53 AM
Thanks guys, I will be sure to look into all of this. But one quick thing, is there the technology for a penis that is indistinguishable from a cisguys penis?
Yes. They can transplant lab grown penises. The technology exists but it's not available (afaik) to the public just yet.
The most authentic-looking after meta is the one that uses forearm graft but is a very big surgery and I was eventually deterred from it due to the results still not being THAT great meaning it does look better than most other types, but no natural erection, LONG recovery time (several weeks of hospitalization, several weeks of recovery after that), severe forearm scarring where they took the graft tissue etc. It's a very big surgery.
I was at a seminar earlier this year where the local surgeon in my area spoke about GRS and suffice to say, I was extremely deterred overall to get anything else but a meta due to health risks, recovery time, poor results (he also showed us examples of "good" results) and other complications involved such as fistulas which you can get from meta too, but it's definitely the "nicest" thing you can have overall and still operates and looks the most authentic. Not as easy having sex with it but possible.
So yes, second researching it extremely thoroughly and discuss it with the doctor you'll have it from in order to see their results, what methods they use etc. Very important.
Quote from: ScottyMac on June 23, 2014, 11:34:53 AM
Thanks guys, I will be sure to look into all of this. But one quick thing, is there the technology for a penis that is indistinguishable from a cisguys penis?
Well it will look like and work like cisguy's penis. I don't know why. The structures are analogous, so that there is actually very little difference between a "clit" and a penis, they both a glans, a shaft, and so forth. I've seen anatomical pictures and the similarity is quite amazing. In a metoidoplasty they use structures you already have, while in a phallo they are created in some cases. The good surgeons now know what they are doing, and it will look identical. I have heard of guys passing in a brief physical with both surgeries.
This guy's stuff is current and he does a fairly good job of writing about it. NSFW.
http://www.metoidioplasty.net/
http://www.phallo.net/
--Jay
As someone said yes it will look like and work like a bio guys penis, There is very little difference between a clit and penis as I stated in your last thread, You can get hard ons know. There are two types of surgies, the meta and the phallo, Th meta uses what you already have and yes it gets hard ons depending on your size you might be able to have sex with, They can also reroute the urethra to pee out of it, Phallo takes skin grafts from other places its adult male size so you can have sex with it and pee out of it but you have to use a pump to get erect.
There are various ways that guys with phallos use, but a pump is one way. They is some experimenting with other sorts of pumps. The pumps are similar to what guys have used for erectile dysfunction. But I was speaking more of a meta as getting erect on it's own. It's a myth that all metas are tiny and that they don't look real or that guys do not penetrate with them. The webpages I gave give good info, and you can use the links they give you or your friend google. :)
--Jay
Yes, the sergical options are pretty great. There are also some prosthetics that work well.
Quote from: aleon515 on June 23, 2014, 11:20:14 AM
Yes, get the book Hung Jury from Amazon.
I ordered that book and hopefully I should get it sometime this week. I'm excited to read it, and I'm the type of person that hates reading books, lol! :D
I keep debating on the bottom surgeries, if I will get it and which one, I have a lot of time until I'm ready for that step anyway, but from what I know, Meta looks and acts like a real penis just smaller, but if your a lucky guy and had some good growth going on from being on T for awhile, it might be able to be bigger (probably not to the phallos extent), I'm sure when you consult with doctors they will let you know more about it and what you can expect. Phallos that I have seen look just like a male penis, after they are healed and complete, you wouldn't be able to tell and if you need a pump, no sweat, there are cis guys who get it, and squeezing a ball ain't that bad lol.
Quote from: Ryan55 on June 23, 2014, 06:56:03 PM
Phallos that I have seen look just like a male penis, after they are healed and complete, you wouldn't be able to tell
I have to say that after seeing surgical results presented by the local surgeon here, using good results for each method, I can't say this is true. The result is extremely variable, forearm graft being the one that has the best results, but overall, it won't really look exactly like a cisguy's penis. I used to think like you and there are a lot of pictures on the internet but one needs to realize that people have a tendency to take pictures when they have very good results which could skewer things in the wrong direction.
There are essentially two kinds of discourses concerning phallo and one being that phallo is really bad and another definitely not as bad as people say it is. I suppose the truth lies somewhere between the two.
Quote from: Ephemeral on June 23, 2014, 11:48:28 AM
Yes. They can transplant lab grown penises.
Not a functional penis with sensation they can't. There are several problems number one being it is not available. Second there is no way to get nerve sensation and feeling in it. Another issue is you would have to be on anti rejection meds for life. The vasculature and issue's with it are a story all their own. This topic comes up again and again, but it is just not feasible for now. Maybe in 15-20 years or so technology will find ways to overcome these issue's. Lab grown are for damaged replacement (IE burn patients) using the own persons DNA and still have the above issue's. There are threads concerning transplanted vagina's as well, but it is merely a hope right now. If they ever get over the problem of nerve end scarring, maybe, right now no. Trust me they will work on the scar tissue formation problems first for spinal cord patients. There is just not enough profit to concentrate on the issue for trans patients right now. Yes, I am a medical provider. :)
Quote from: Jessica Merriman on June 24, 2014, 03:04:53 AM
Not a functional penis with sensation they can't.
Given that the tech isn't even available for humans yet, yeah.
QuoteThere are several problems number one being it is not available.
Yes, which is what I wrote.
QuoteSecond there is no way to get nerve sensation and feeling in it. Another issue is you would have to be on anti rejection meds for life.
If it's grown and properly connected to nerve tissue that shouldn't be a problem, no?
QuoteThe vasculature and issue's with it are a story all their own. This topic comes up again and again, but it is just not feasible for now. Maybe in 15-20 years or so technology will find ways to overcome these issue's. Lab grown are for damaged replacement (IE burn patients) using the own persons DNA and still have the above issue's. There are threads concerning transplanted vagina's as well, but it is merely a hope right now. If they ever get over the problem of nerve end scarring, maybe, right now no. Trust me they will work on the scar tissue first for spinal cord patients first. There is just not enough profit to concentrate on the issue for trans patients right now. Yes, I am a medical provider. :)
I know they did on bunnies though. My overall impression was more the issue of size.
Quote from: Ephemeral on June 24, 2014, 03:09:27 AM
If it's grown and properly connected to nerve tissue that shouldn't be a problem, no?
You can't reconnect nerve endings. Scar tissue formation prevents it. That is why spinal patients never walk again. Nerve ending once severed are gone forever. They just will not connect. It would be like having an electrical wire cut in two with both ends in cement. They will not conduct electricity. If you ever solve this problem you will be rich beyond anything you can imagine.
When a nerve ending is damaged the scar tissue can stop regeneration. This is typically the problem for spinal cord patients. During my PhD I attended many presentions from the Zurich Neuroscience group - who have been trying for years to get neural regrowth in spinal cord and other neurological impaired patients. Even then results are still limited.
Growing functional 3d scaffolding a for cell tissue cultures is progressing - but still takes a lot of time and not yet mainstream. Perhaps as Jessica said it will be in a few years - and I keep checking the latest developments. But so far - unless you are mega wealthy to find your own research programme; I think patience will be required.
Now to let this topic get back to what it is supposed to be - finding the best which is currently available.
I saw a pretty impressive one on a TV show. There was a lot of scarring involved, mind you. It IS surgery so there will almost inevitably be scars, and they weren't just in the genital region. In that case, there was also scarring on the buttocks and arm, I believe, where tissue was taken to form the new penis. He seemed very happy with his results and that's what matters. So I would just keep that in mind and manage expectations. I get the impression scarring is much less dramatic with something like meta.
Lab grown penises would be from your own stem cells so there wouldn't be an issue with rejection from your body. Just putting that bit out there.
Quote from: Jessica Merriman on June 24, 2014, 03:14:52 AM
You can't reconnect nerve endings. Scar tissue formation prevents it. That is why spinal patients never walk again. Nerve ending once severed are gone forever. They just will not connect. It would be like having an electrical wire cut in two with both ends in cement. They will not conduct electricity. If you ever solve this problem you will be rich beyond anything you can imagine.
They're currently experimenting with stem cells in a few countries, its apparently showing promise in helping SCI patients regain sensation and motor control.
With that and the 3D tissue printer, I'm pretty hopeful for the not-so-distant future.
Quote from: dalebert on June 24, 2014, 06:23:30 AM
I saw a pretty impressive one on a TV show. There was a lot of scarring involved, mind you. It IS surgery so there will almost inevitably be scars, and they weren't just in the genital region. In that case, there was also scarring on the buttocks and arm, I believe, where tissue was taken to form the new penis. He seemed very happy with his results and that's what matters. So I would just keep that in mind and manage expectations. I get the impression scarring is much less dramatic with something like meta.
I think that was My Transsexual Summer? Very nice example of a phallo. He also talks about it and the info is fairly current and correct.
Permanent non-scarring on a meta is not an issue. There is VERY little cutting actually. A meta also retains (or in some cases retains) original sensation. The problem is the size which is dependent on how much the dicklet grows on T. Some guys are not able to penetrate, but others do this with a bit of ingenuity.
Most guys with phallo have sensation. They connect with your original equipment and most guys say they have very good sensation (at least that I have heard). There has been work re: nerve hook up (Dr Crane, etc.). I haven't actually seen these videos, and when I tried to link here apparently the videos are now private. I'm sure he would send a copy of these to someone who asked. But for the most part, the sensation is from what you already have and the way the phallo is positioned. I think this is a myth that it is insensate. There is some scarring on the shaft, I would doubt it would be so much that it would out you. There is scarring on the arm (or wherever they take the graft from). The scarring and some "denting" that type of thing decreases over time.
The problem of getting someone to walk again would be reconnecting thousands of nerves and in most cases the dysfunction is in the brain, not the legs! However they have reconnected hands and arms: http://health.howstuffworks.com/medicine/can-body-parts-be-reattached.htm
Stuff on nerve connection in phallo (and fairly good on meta): http://www.computerconsultingservices.net/trans-medicine/images/3.htm
In this is situation the goals are more simple, to reattach 1-2 nerves, and it doesn't always work. Even so, most guys have adequate sensation, from their original equipment.
The big problem right now with phallo is that you can't get erection without some kind of aid (either implant, or some guys do other kinds of things-- sleeves, wrapping the penis, special condoms designed for men with EDs). It should be stated that ED is VERY common in cis men.
Lots of just dated and wrong info out there.
--Jay
I'm not sure if anyone here has ever read the story about the man who lost his penis and got a transplant from a fellow who was brain dead.
http://www.theguardian.com/science/2006/sep/18/medicineandhealth.china
There's the link to that, and that's a few years old.
So that is always a possibility, barring the psychological issues that may arise due to having someone else's genitals attached to your body.
Though, as it says at the end of this article, whether or not it would fully function properly would take some time to become evident.
There are indeed micro-surgeons who specialize in nerve-reattachment, it just takes a while for them to start working properly again.
Yes it is possible to get the feeling with phallo, but even without direct feeling the feeling still channels up from the original equipment, so to speak, which remains there more or less embedded in the new phallus.
There are quite a lot of nerve endings in the smaller clit and it isn't cut or damaged in any way.
But they do reconnect the nerves, though it may take awhile as @transmadness said.
--Jay
I've read some awesome discussions on the lab grown penises. I'm sure it will take at least 10 years, and first it will go for disabled veterans and things like that first. I did read an article on how they are excited to hopefully be able to help the FTM community :)
I just can't see the transplanted "lab-grown penis" into the body of an FTM as being fully functional in the same way as a cismale's penis. I think that it's great - don't get me wrong - but I can't imagine that it would function as a cismale penis. I would still give it a go, though. Even if just for alleviating dysphoria - to have it there at all would be amazing.
Quote from: Kreuzfidel on June 25, 2014, 08:14:43 PM
I just can't see the transplanted "lab-grown penis" into the body of an FTM as being fully functional in the same way as a cismale's penis. I think that it's great - don't get me wrong - but I can't imagine that it would function as a cismale penis. I would still give it a go, though. Even if just for alleviating dysphoria - to have it there at all would be amazing.
It definitely would help so many people from all walks of life if it actually happens. For it to be fully functional would be a dream. From what I've read, they would take a nerve from another part of the body to connect. I see on this thread everyone feels differently on how the nerves would connect, but here's to hoping!
Quote from: Bearr on June 25, 2014, 09:03:59 PM
It definitely would help so many people from all walks of life if it actually happens. For it to be fully functional would be a dream. From what I've read, they would take a nerve from another part of the body to connect. I see on this thread everyone feels differently on how the nerves would connect, but here's to hoping!
I am pretty sure they do reconnect nerves (though obviously not enough to get someone to walk again). I would guess that at least theoretically you can grow nerve cells from stem cells, of course, though I'm not sure anything like that has been done. Meanwhile your still stuck with grafts, though perhaps the graft isn't as noticeable.
--Jay
My biggest issue with grafts is that you get a hella lot of scarring but most importantly, no erection. Maybe I'm a vain bastard but I care about it quite a fair deal more than I was initially willing to admit, because I was pretty settled on a graft but I have changed my opinion on this. I want natural erection. Also, yes, sensation is going to be odd since it will still be limited to the clit nerves so it won't quite feel like as if you were born with a penis since the strongest experience will be in the clit organ inside your body, not in the penis itself so to speak. That would likely be different with a lab grown penis since it would have all the neural sensitivity of any other penis including of course, natural erection.
Regardless I think most people unless they really need it would be better of to wait. Tech just isn't all that great though the future does look promising and while you can be lucky and get very good results and if you want to settle with current tech that's fine, but personally, I would wait. You can be a guy without a dick. That's what all those war veterans are that this lab grown penis tech is being developed for.
Quote from: Ephemeral on June 28, 2014, 03:18:55 PM
My biggest issue with grafts is that you get a hella lot of scarring but most importantly, no erection. Maybe I'm a vain bastard but I care about it quite a fair deal more than I was initially willing to admit, because I was pretty settled on a graft but I have changed my opinion on this. I want natural erection. Also, yes, sensation is going to be odd since it will still be limited to the clit nerves so it won't quite feel like as if you were born with a penis since the strongest experience will be in the clit organ inside your body, not in the penis itself so to speak. That would likely be different with a lab grown penis since it would have all the neural sensitivity of any other penis including of course, natural erection.
Regardless I think most people unless they really need it would be better of to wait. Tech just isn't all that great though the future does look promising and while you can be lucky and get very good results and if you want to settle with current tech that's fine, but personally, I would wait. You can be a guy without a dick. That's what all those war veterans are that this lab grown penis tech is being developed for.
Right but what were trying to explain to him is that he's not dickless nor will he ever be because the clit is made out of the same thing as a penis and as I also said the invers can be stated as well a penis is an oversized clit and gets erect it has a shaft and a hood over it, its just smaller. And I have alot of bio guy friends and the same feeling they get when they jack off is the same feeling I get no lie,We have alot of weird convos but what teen boy doesn't. You will actually find that our bodies are actually the least thing that's different its only hormones and brain structure. Took biology also learned this in sociology we all start out with female genitalia a clit is just an underveloped penis.
Quote from: Ephemeral on June 28, 2014, 03:18:55 PM
Regardless I think most people unless they really need it would be better of to wait. Tech just isn't all that great though the future does look promising and while you can be lucky and get very good results and if you want to settle with current tech that's fine, but personally, I would wait. You can be a guy without a dick. That's what all those war veterans are that this lab grown penis tech is being developed for.
Nobody's saying you can't be a guy unless you have a penis, but for a lot of people it is crucially important. Do not dismiss the technology as not "all that great" — considering what surgeons are working with (skin grafted from an arm or other body part) the results are impressive. The fact that you do retain a measure of sensation and are able to successfully urinate through it is a radical improvement from, say, 10 or 20 years ago. Yes, things go wrong, and sometimes men aren't entirely happy with the results, but generally speaking most patients are perfectly satisfied. Cosmetically speaking, if done well, it's pretty indistinguishable from a 'real' penis.
Of course there are limitations. I, too, wish there was a way to achieve a natural erection and the option to have a foreskin. For the time being, though, this is what we have and for many people it's satisfactory.
I'm not trying to change your mind, and I'm not saying that current techniques are perfect — of course they're not. just be careful about making sweeping statements like "it's not that great" — fact is, the technology itself is rather incredible, it's just a question of whether it is satisfactory to you personally. And there's nothing wrong with wanting to wait if certain factors (i.e. lack of natural erection) are dealbreakers for you. That is perfectly fine. Just try not to state it as an objective fact; this can be a hugely sensitive issue for many of the people who have had lower surgery and are satisfied with their penises.
QuoteRight but what were trying to explain to him is that he's not dickless nor will he ever be because the clit is made out of the same thing as a penis and as I also said the invers can be stated as well a penis is an oversized clit and gets erect it has a shaft and a hood over it, its just smaller. And I have alot of bio guy friends and the same feeling they get when they jack off is the same feeling I get no lie,We have alot of weird convos but what teen boy doesn't. You will actually find that our bodies are actually the least thing that's different its only hormones and brain structure. Took biology also learned this in sociology we all start out with female genitalia a clit is just an underveloped penis.
Yes, I agree on that and I have always been very sure that what I experience is the same as a cisguy's too, but sensation isn't quite going to be 100% the same despite that. I actually think brain structure is what differs less personally but that's a different subject.
QuoteNobody's saying you can't be a guy unless you have a penis, but for a lot of people it is crucially important. Do not dismiss the technology as not "all that great" — considering what surgeons are working with (skin grafted from an arm or other body part) the results are impressive.
Well, I was at a seminar earlier this year with the local surgeon showing the most recent tech and their results and I wasn't impressed, personally. If other guys are satisfied with that it's their thing, as I already mentioned. ¨
QuoteCosmetically speaking, if done well, it's pretty indistinguishable from a 'real' penis.
Those are very rare I'd say, result-wise.
QuoteOf course there are limitations. I, too, wish there was a way to achieve a natural erection and the option to have a foreskin. For the time being, though, this is what we have and for many people it's satisfactory.
I'm not trying to change your mind, and I'm not saying that current techniques are perfect — of course they're not. just be careful about making sweeping statements like "it's not that great" — fact is, the technology itself is rather incredible, it's just a question of whether it is satisfactory to you personally. And there's nothing wrong with wanting to wait if certain factors (i.e. lack of natural erection) are dealbreakers for you. That is perfectly fine. Just try not to state it as an objective fact; this can is a hugely sensitive issue for many of the people who have had lower surgery and are satisfied with their penises.
It was my opinion so what does it matter if it's a sweeping statement or not? With that said, I have to say that I do think it's somewhat factually correct to state that tech isn't all that great compared to what it could actually be. Yes, some guys may be happy with their results and that's good for them and I was aiming for a graft myself before I changed my mind. Especially after I attended the seminar earlier this year. It changed my perception of phalloplasty a lot, and not in a good way. I would likely consider it a reality check.
Did you for example know that they are experimenting with titanium screws implants where you can attach a prosthetic device instead of doing grafts? I mean, I can't say I think that method is revolutionary or anything like that. I suppose it could be the second best thing if you want to wait for something else available but don't want a graft.
As I said, I think I'll go with a meta.
It's a shame that we cannot somehow exchange body parts. I would surely swap all my things for you things. Take care & good luck to you.
Quote from: Ephemeral on June 29, 2014, 04:24:31 AM
Yes, I agree on that and I have always been very sure that what I experience is the same as a cisguy's too, but sensation isn't quite going to be 100% the same despite that. I actually think brain structure is what differs less personally but that's a different subject.
Well, I was at a seminar earlier this year with the local surgeon showing the most recent tech and their results and I wasn't impressed, personally. If other guys are satisfied with that it's their thing, as I already mentioned. ¨
Those are very rare I'd say, result-wise.
It was my opinion so what does it matter if it's a sweeping statement or not? With that said, I have to say that I do think it's somewhat factually correct to state that tech isn't all that great compared to what it could actually be. Yes, some guys may be happy with their results and that's good for them and I was aiming for a graft myself before I changed my mind. Especially after I attended the seminar earlier this year. It changed my perception of phalloplasty a lot, and not in a good way. I would likely consider it a reality check.
Did you for example know that they are experimenting with titanium screws implants where you can attach a prosthetic device instead of doing grafts? I mean, I can't say I think that method is revolutionary or anything like that. I suppose it could be the second best thing if you want to wait for something else available but don't want a graft.
As I said, I think I'll go with a meta.
Yea maybe after surgery is chamges with the phallo but not with the meta. And yes Brain structure is different, Why do you think us guys think about sex more than women. Also why do you think us guys are more visual.
Quote from: FrancisAnn on June 29, 2014, 05:47:52 AM
It's a shame that we cannot somehow exchange body parts. I would surely swap all my things for you things. Take care & good luck to you.
I agree with you. I have thought many times that how nice it would be for me if I could just swap my parts.
Quote from: Brandon on June 29, 2014, 12:06:28 PM
Yea maybe after surgery is chamges with the phallo but not with the meta. And yes Brain structure is different, Why do you think us guys think about sex more than women. Also why do you think us guys are more visual.
There is no evidence to actually suggest that guys inherently think more about sex. As for spatial skills, one can argue it is caused by brain plasticity because people male born are encouraged to use those kinds of skills and it would thus also improve that part of the brain.
You will find plenty of guys who suck at spatial thinking. I'm one of them. I'm largely verbal over visual.
Quote from: Ephemeral on June 29, 2014, 01:59:44 PM
There is no evidence to actually suggest that guys inherently think more about sex. As for spatial skills, one can argue it is caused by brain plasticity because people male born are encouraged to use those kinds of skills and it would thus also improve that part of the brain.
You will find plenty of guys who suck at spatial thinking. I'm one of them. I'm largely verbal over visual.
Um yea its been proven that men on average think about sex more than women, Where have you been dude, Thats pretty much what me and my bros talk about if we have nothing else to. All you need to do is make a twitter and go up the TL its right n front of your face. And when I say visual. I mean its easier for us to get turned on. Prime example plenty of girls will tell you they don't were regular underwear with yogas or leggings so guess whats on a guys mind cuz I know whats on mine.
Quote from: Brandon on June 29, 2014, 09:19:35 PM
Um yea its been proven that men on average think about sex more than women, Where have you been dude, Thats pretty much what me and my bros talk about if we have nothing else to. All you need to do is make a twitter and go up the TL its right n front of your face. And when I say visual. I mean its easier for us to get turned on. Prime example plenty of girls will tell you they don't were regular underwear with yogas or leggings so guess whats on a guys mind cuz I know whats on mine.
Please cite actual studies, not anecdotal conjecture. If you read up your science you'd know that women react as strongly to visual stimulus as men do and that women think about as much about sex. Just because people don't articulate certain thoughts it doesn't mean they don't exist. Male and female socialization is very different but thanks for proving that male socialization emphasizes sex more.
Getting back on topic, if I get bottom surgery it will be meta. I'm just not happy with any of the Phallo results I've seen anywhere. But, that being said, my top priority is top surgery, and I'm willing to wait quite a while for bottom surgery so there is time to improve the technology. I don't want to sound offensive but the only decent Phallo results I've seen were MLP from the back dorsal, and even then it didn't look great. I tend to think that forearm Phallo results look kind of like play dough.
Quote from: h3llsb3lls on June 30, 2014, 05:04:47 AM
Getting back on topic, if I get bottom surgery it will be meta. I'm just not happy with any of the Phallo results I've seen anywhere. But, that being said, my top priority is top surgery, and I'm willing to wait quite a while for bottom surgery so there is time to improve the technology. I don't want to sound offensive but the only decent Phallo results I've seen were MLP from the back dorsal, and even then it didn't look great. I tend to think that forearm Phallo results look kind of like play dough.
I have read that many FTM people refuse to have that surgery for the same reasons. A penis is not necessary except for penetrative sex or for personal preference.
Quote from: mac1 on June 30, 2014, 10:08:03 AM
I have read that many FTM people refuse to have that surgery for the same reasons. A penis is not necessary except for penetrative sex or for personal preference.
Exactly. While I would love to have the equipment that I have in my mind, it isn't a necessary procedure for me and I don't want to have to settle for another body part I'm not happy with.
Quote from: h3llsb3lls on June 30, 2014, 11:01:51 AM
Exactly. While I would love to have the equipment that I have in my mind, it isn't a necessary procedure for me and I don't want to have to settle for another body part I'm not happy with.
That is similar to my situation. Since before I was 10 years old I had thoughts that it would be nice to be a girl. I was never overly excited about my male parts but they have given me sexual pleasure in the past with my wife. They currently do not serve any practical purpose for me and I do not have any real need for a vagina. I still would like to be able to pass as a woman with her if I could look feminine enough and she would be able to accept me in that roll on occasion.
At this point the minimum acceptable transition (so I could pass as either female or male) for me would be:
(1) A totally smooth crotch with proper urethra relocation and possibly labia to direct the urine.
(2) Moderately sized female breasts.
(3) Elimination of facial and body hair.
(4) A more feminine (unisex) voice.
(5) Full acceptance (in either female or male roll) by my wife.
Quote from: h3llsb3lls on June 30, 2014, 05:04:47 AM
Getting back on topic, if I get bottom surgery it will be meta. I'm just not happy with any of the Phallo results I've seen anywhere. But, that being said, my top priority is top surgery, and I'm willing to wait quite a while for bottom surgery so there is time to improve the technology. I don't want to sound offensive but the only decent Phallo results I've seen were MLP from the back dorsal, and even then it didn't look great. I tend to think that forearm Phallo results look kind of like play dough.
I second this. I wonder what makes people's perception of phalloplasty differ so widely. Some people seem to think the results are great overall and some people not. I used to belong to the former camp. I understand that it may seem offensive to those who have had phallo already to say that the results are not so good overall but we need to remember that this is our personal judgement; no offense is intended and if you are satisfied with your results that's great! No one can tell you otherwise, but it doesn't mean that
I, when I am going to have my own phallo, is going to want those results.
Also, the title is clearly discussing the subject of a "realistic penis", and on that question I have to honestly say the answer is quite resoundingly no. Unless you consider meta, which is the closest thing to the real deal you'll get both in terms of form and function aside being more of a micropenis.
Quote from: Ephemeral on June 30, 2014, 04:38:07 AM
Please cite actual studies, not anecdotal conjecture. If you read up your science you'd know that women react as strongly to visual stimulus as men do and that women think about as much about sex. Just because people don't articulate certain thoughts it doesn't mean they don't exist. Male and female socialization is very different but thanks for proving that male socialization emphasizes sex more.
No they don't man sorry to tell you thats false as hell, And I never said women don't think about but men think about it more. I don't need to sight anything maybe you need to get out more to know.
For arguments sake, there is this http://m.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-sexual-continuum/201112/how-often-do-men-and-women-think-about-sex
The actual study is really interesting, and had been repeated since. The notion that men think about sex more than women was a thought brought about to keep men's perception of women pure while making women feel like criminals for being interested in sex. It's outdated and was unfounded at the time. Kinsey did some great research, but he did very little to break the chains of sexual oppression towards women. The same chains you perpetuate by continuing the soar of what's turning out to be misinformation. Sweeping generalizations don't help anyone, period.
Quote from: h3llsb3lls on June 30, 2014, 03:23:30 PM
For arguments sake, there is this http://m.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-sexual-continuum/201112/how-often-do-men-and-women-think-about-sex
The actual study is really interesting, and had been repeated since. The notion that men think about sex more than women was a thought brought about to keep men's perception of women pure while making women feel like criminals for being interested in sex. It's outdated and was unfounded at the time. Kinsey did some great research, but he did very little to break the chains of sexual oppression towards women. The same chains you perpetuate by continuing the soar of what's turning out to be misinformation. Sweeping generalizations don't help anyone, period.
Did I ever say women don't think about sex, No! I did not all I said was men think about it more almost 24/7 because anything can trigger that thought especially considering men get turned on easier and quicker. There is a difference between how men and women think. I don't need a scientist to help back up that claim.
That's ridiculous. Seriously. I don't care if you're male, female, agendered, intersex, or whatever, you are doing EVERYONE a disservice by spreading claims based on nothing.
This arguing is not productive nor related to the topic. Return to the topic or it gets locked.
Quote from: h3llsb3lls on June 30, 2014, 04:49:27 PM
That's ridiculous. Seriously. I don't care if you're male, female, agendered, intersex, or whatever, you are doing EVERYONE a disservice by spreading claims based on nothing.
Why are you getting mad I'm not trying to argue with anyone, Science proves nothing though you must not have alot of guy friends to know. The only thing I said was Brain structure is most definately different. Yes I believe guys think about sex more or are more visual, You prolly never even read the example I gave you. But its okay I'm fine I'm not mad.
Quote from: Ephemeral on June 28, 2014, 03:18:55 PM
My biggest issue with grafts is that you get a hella lot of scarring but most importantly, no erection. Maybe I'm a vain bastard but I care about it quite a fair deal more than I was initially willing to admit, because I was pretty settled on a graft but I have changed my opinion on this. I want natural erection. Also, yes, sensation is going to be odd since it will still be limited to the clit nerves so it won't quite feel like as if you were born with a penis since the strongest experience will be in the clit organ inside your body, not in the penis itself so to speak. That would likely be different with a lab grown penis since it would have all the neural sensitivity of any other penis including of course, natural erection.
Regardless I think most people unless they really need it would be better of to wait. Tech just isn't all that great though the future does look promising and while you can be lucky and get very good results and if you want to settle with current tech that's fine, but personally, I would wait. You can be a guy without a dick. That's what all those war veterans are that this lab grown penis tech is being developed for.
I agree with what you've said here. I also agree that with the way technology has advanced over the years, we should certainly have access to more realistic looking phallus options. The biggest reason we don't, however, is because this is not something that's considered high in demand enough for scientists to research better methods. As much as I hate to admit it, from what I've researched, that basically just means not enough cis-men have gotten their junk blown off/disfigured in some other way for them to warrant researching it. Trans men and other folks who need a penis to feel more comfortable with themselves don't count so much on the larger scale of things and it sucks. Luckily my bottom dysphoria is mostly under control and a functioning penis isn't something I need to survive, but I really feel for those who don't have this luxury and wish I knew of a way that we could somehow prove to medical scientists and surgeons that this IS high in demand, even life or death for some people.
I've wondered why a good prosthetist and a surgeon could not develop a prosthetic that could be adhered the same way an ear or facial part was attached (ie using snaps surgically implanted in the body). It would be removable, and could be changed for flaccid or erect. I think it could be done, just wondered why it hasn't been tried.
Patrick
Quote from: patrick_1954 on July 01, 2014, 02:23:31 PM
I've wondered why a good prosthetist and a surgeon could not develop a prosthetic that could be adhered the same way an ear or facial part was attached (ie using snaps surgically implanted in the body). It would be removable, and could be changed for flaccid or erect. I think it could be done, just wondered why it hasn't been tried.
Patrick
There is tech for that but it's obviously a prosthetic device. What they do is that they implant screws on your hip bone or such, so you can attach the device onto your body, and then you get two versions, one limp and another erect and you can switch between the two. For those who want a simple surgery I suppose it could work but the real downside is of course that it's clearly not organic nor won't it look realistic in such a sense though I suppose that the device itself if really well-made, could look realistic as such. Just not organically so.
I can't wait for cybernetics. I might even take an improved cyborg version of my organic junk. I wouldn't even care if it looked like normal junk if it actually worked better in all the ways that matter (that means interfacing with my nervous system, of course). Oh, and it would have to look really cool. Imagine a larger-than-average-but-not-impractically-huge shiny chrome wiener that retracted into the abdomen when not in use. Maybe it could even have some various colors of LEDs that blink and cycle in sync with cool music to set the mood. Maybe it would have various vibration settings like a massage chair. Try telling me you wouldn't want that!
I've seen the lack of improvements with surgeries over the 40 years since I transitioned. There really haven't been any. I've yet to see any surgery that I'd be happy with the results. I'm talking about an option that wouldn't cost multiple thousands of dollars.
I'm also talking about options for those of us where surgeries aren't an option. I'm now disabled with multiple immune system issues. I'd really have to question the ethics of any doctor that would say I was a candidate for
Quote from: dalebert on July 01, 2014, 03:35:58 PM
I can't wait for cybernetics. I might even take an improved cyborg version of my organic junk. I wouldn't even care if it looked like normal junk if it actually worked better in all the ways that matter (that means interfacing with my nervous system, of course). Oh, and it would have to look really cool. Imagine a larger-than-average-but-not-impractically-huge shiny chrome wiener that retracted into the abdomen when not in use. Maybe it could even have some various colors of LEDs that blink and cycle in sync with cool music to set the mood. Maybe it would have various vibration settings like a massage chair. Try telling me you wouldn't want that!
lmao this made my day