Working in my occupation, you end up dealing with a lot of human biological processes, and nothing is sacred in everyday conversation during work breaks. As a result the ladies at work are all too happy to talk to me about female biological issues, problems with finding comfortable undergarments, etcetera.
It's not exactly stuff I want to know about so I make a point of rolling my eyes and feign embarrassment - they enjoy getting a rise out of me, even if it is put on.
But it's triggering in the fact that that sort of thing that cis-girls confide in each other about whilst growing up.
And it's not as though I'm out in any way.
Has anyone had similar experience?
No, no really, but we to chat about epilation and other stuff with those colleagues I am out to - providing that no guys are nearby. But that surely sounds better than those extremely explicit high school boys locker room talks about porn, erections and how many scores each of them had during last weekend...
Quote from: ♡ Emily ♡ on June 24, 2014, 09:42:50 AM
No, no really, but we to chat about epilation and other stuff with those colleagues I am out to - providing that no guys are nearby. But that surely sounds better than those extremely explicit high school boys locker room talks about porn, erections and how many scores each of them had during last weekend...
"extremely explicit high school boys locker room talks" <- That almost sounds like some of my colleagues lunch time discussions. OK, it's not that bad but I still stopped going for lunch with quite a few people few months back as I simply couldn't withstand it. TMI from the other pole I guess :-) . And then I also don't go for lunch with my line manager as he doesn't get that the point of lunch break is a break from work.
I work in a technology department and on our floor it's like 90 men and 10 women (at least the ladies room is 100% available :-) ) and it's so scattered that I was on a lunch with another girl only once so far which was last Friday. That lunch discussion included only vacation plans for summer so it was all right. But that's hardly a sufficient statistical sample.
Luna, literally, I would -kill- for the girls to include me like that! I would take it as a sign of real acceptance, even tho you said they may be trying to get a rise out of you. You could try to turn the tables on them, and ask stuff that would make -their- eyes roll too.. ::) It may be triggering, as you said. You could also, take one or two aside, and let them know that it hurts inside. :'( I think that would stop it, or at least, make them think of feelings we have.
But depending on your journey's end, you may need those kind of tips ;)
Maybe I'm strange but... my female friends were always this way with me... they would talk to me about their periods, about bras and panties, things they found sexy, whenever they got UTI's lol.. and honestly... I've always loved it.. it made me feel like I belonged.. even before transition, before i even knew i was trans... I LOVED being included by my girl friends.. they would change outfits in front of me and they would show me intimate tattoos and talk to me about their sexcapades because they KNEW that i wouldn't respond like a pervy guy.. .they knew that i would show genuine interest and would actually give them constructive feedback if I felt it necessary... I loved it because I felt a sense of trust... something I never felt with my guy friends (or at least no more than ONE guy friend).
These days it's only become EASIER with my remaining girl friends as well as my young female cousins, they include me in their "feminine" privacy issues as if I was another girl and i honestly can't say that it doesn't feel great. Even way back then when I was as "male" as it got, my best friend Cindy would change in front of me, we would literally change in the same room if our conversation proved to be engaging enough, she would talk to me about EVERYTHING, she treated me like another girl despite me not even having a CLUE about my trans status...
In another instance, I went out to a restaurant and met one of my best friend's long time friend, and afterwards my best friend told me "she told me the funniest thing after we left" and i was like "what did she say?" and she says to me "she said that hanging out with you was weird because she felt like you were just another girl.. she felt like we were having a girls night out with us"... and this was also before even realizing I was trans (this was when I thought I was gender fluid)...
Perhaps you're on the other side of the fence when it comes to inclusion, but for me it was always comforting... even after discovering my trans status, it didn't really bring up any dysphoria with me, instead it allowed me to feel as though I was already a girl, and that I could have more patience for the transition itself. Probably a contributing factor to why I went Full time off the bat, I felt so much like a girl already that i felt weird wearing boy clothes :P I would say try to enjoy it and try to consider it a sixth sense that they have, for all you know it might make it easier if you ever come out to them or if you are ever "discovered" because that way, they wont be surprised lol. But take that with a grain of salt :P
Quote from: CandiceSkirvin on June 24, 2014, 10:14:16 AM
At the end of the day though, you are being included and that's pretty awesome. Women don't tend to include guys in these discussion topics so they don't see you as a guy. They see you as just another woman like the rest of us, and that's pretty awesome because that's what you are. :)
That's the kicker. I am presenting male, and have no intention of transitioning due to circumstances. I'm either subconsciously leaking that I'm trans and they've picked up on it (unlikely), or alternatively, I'm seen as a pesky little brother that they need to gross out. Otherwise, I guess I'm not seen as a manly man for some strange reason. :P
Regardless, it's just that bit weird in my head, but no offence or hurt is meant, and for me to say it's triggering would mean I'm outing myself.
Yes. Plenty of break time conversation hearing about bad bra shopping experiences, detailed body problems and women are much much more detailed when it comes to the bedroom
As you said it is your occupation and nothing is sacred you are a work colleague who they are friendly with during working hours (assume). So come breaks while you don't dissappear it doesn't always register that oh there is a guy here maybe we don't want to talk about that.
Presenting male plenty of this sort of conversation has happened around me my whole life, I think it is just I am seen as "non-threatening" therefore they don't watch what they say around me. It also doesn't hurt that I have always talked to women with the concept they are human beings and have meaningful opinions about things and at the workplaces I have been in that mentality is not common. Really, I am not really sure how to relate to men in the workplace, I almost always kept female company in the break room, I think it would probably be much worse for the women to exclude me rather than include me in TMI.
I try to look on the bright side about some of the stories I won't experience, thinking well at least I won't deal with that problem rather than thinking, "oh no I will never have children", because when I think about it like that it depresses me in quite a profound way. Which is silly in a way, since I did at one point have the capacity to have a child biologically in a different fashion than I would like, but I did and I went out of my way not to. Still, I can't help but being bothered by it if I think about it in terms of fertility so, lots of topics like menstruation I have separated from fertility in my internal dialog, they aren't directly connected in my day to day thoughts, because that is really the only protection I can afford myself.
I noticed right away that I smelled different, and my girl friends began to treat me differently. I guess I wasn't giving off predator scent, I smelled more like them, so was treated like well, nt like a guy.. Like one of them. So likely, you are being being not like a predator too, being accepted... but that's just me.. I rather like it.
Quote from: CandiceSkirvin on June 24, 2014, 03:38:41 PM
Or they might think you're a guy guy. Gay guys get included sometimes on these things. I don't think they see you as a pesky little brother though.
Nup. They know I'm married with kids. I can do drag queen camp as required for certain jokes, but I definitely don't register with them as gay.
Quote from: immortal gypsy on June 24, 2014, 04:03:42 PM
As you said it is your occupation and nothing is sacred you are a work colleague who they are friendly with during working hours (assume). So come breaks while you don't dissappear it doesn't always register that oh there is a guy here maybe we don't want to talk about that.
The whacky thing it even happens in one on one conversations.
In any case, other than being triggering, it's pretty funny sometimes, and disconcerting at others. I guess between not presenting as an alpha male, and the line of work, it's just too easy for the lines to blur.
I don't interact with people much outside of the internet, so my experience with this sort of thing is very limited, but my cousin talks to me about her periods in extreme graphic detail. At first I also found it triggery, but later I started to feel the opposite... Like it meant she saw me as another girl, and that made me happy.
I've always been included in girl talk. Even long before I went full time or began my transition. I've had girls that were just friends change in front of me too like I was just another girl. It happens now all the time and I must admit, it really feels good to be treated as "just one of the girls."
Ally :icon_flower:
I think women have always sensed something about me. I was always gentle, and kind, and didn't do, or put up with, any macho posturing.
Since I was a teen, girls have just started talking to me about painful periods, rotten boyfriends, finding comfortable undergarments, etc. Theses same girls didn't do that to any other guys. I guess they felt safe around me. Part of it, I'm sure, is all of them were convinced I was gay.
Quote from: luna nyan on June 24, 2014, 09:56:23 PM
Nup. They know I'm married with kids. I can do drag queen camp as required for certain jokes, but I definitely don't register with them as gay.
The whacky thing it even happens in one on one conversations.
In any case, other than being triggering, it's pretty funny sometimes, and disconcerting at others. I guess between not presenting as an alpha male, and the line of work, it's just too easy for the lines to blur.
Perhaps women have a sort of highetened intuition of sorts. As i mentioned before, even when i was as "manly" as i could possibly get, full facial hair, short buzz cut, intensely male clothing.... my girl friends included me like another girl... they knew i wasnt gay because i was married and always talked about my wife, they knew I wasn't trans because, well I didnt even know and although they weren't surprised, to some degree they were a little. Can't we just assume that maybe they have a sort of trust in you regardless of your gender? I mean, such things are possible ;D
Quote from: LittleEmily24 on June 25, 2014, 10:47:36 AM
Can't we just assume that maybe they have a sort of trust in you regardless of your gender? I mean, such things are possible ;D
;D
Now that made me laugh! The more I think about this question, the funnier it is. :D
I hate to say it, but women just know you are different. In EMS we worked 12-16 hour shift's in the rig the whole time and all the time I was with female partners I was the comforting shoulder and sounding board for everything feminine they were going through. I heard all about issue's with body conditions, relationships, dreams and desires for the future. I would not trade a single second of it at all. They always told me I was the only male who got them and understood. It was then I knew transition was going to be my future. When I came out to them at a Medic reunion most said "what took you so long? We knew way back then"! ::)
Yeah, back in uni days several female coursemates admitted that during those student parties when guys would slowly but steadily get drunk, girls preferred to stick with me cause I was considered to be "safe person" - someone who was always respectful and would teach manners to those who were not... Kinda ironic when deeply closeted transgirl in denial had to keep up the chivalry.
Quote from: Paula Christine on June 24, 2014, 07:36:30 PM
I noticed right away that I smelled different, and my girl friends began to treat me differently. I guess I wasn't giving off predator scent, I smelled more like them, so was treated like well, nt like a guy.. Like one of them. So likely, you are being being not like a predator too, being accepted... but that's just me.. I rather like it.
I get that and there is something to it. I used to have to travel in my working days and when I was gone my spouse said she felt comfortable with my pillow close to her face at night, eventually the scent changed according to her and I no longer smelled like a man. Joan Didion in her book, "A year Of Magical Thinking" following the sudden death of her husband, details how she kept his clothes hanging in the closet for a year so that she could smell his scent. Cis women are extremely sensitive to male scents.
I think because women feel safe enough around me to discuss biological issues among many other typically female topics of conversation then I should not be put off by it but rather flattered to think that they feel comfortable in my presence. I have long since given up thinking that such conversation is just so much insipid women's drivel, and realize that no matter what it is if it's important to them than I should honor that and be attentive and emotionally connected.
Quote from: Shantel on June 25, 2014, 05:20:45 PM
I have long since given up thinking that such conversation is just so much insipid women's drivel, and realize that no matter what it is if it's important to them than I should honor that and be attentive and emotionally connected.
Good words to live by. If someone is wanting to share something that is worrying them, then it is an issue that is important to them, and should not be dismissed out of hand regardless of our own personal feelings.
Difficult to do at times, but it is something I am striving for.
Quote from: luna nyan on June 25, 2014, 08:31:39 PM
Good words to live by. If someone is wanting to share something that is worrying them, then it is an issue that is important to them, and should not be dismissed out of hand regardless of our own personal feelings.
Difficult to do at times, but it is something I am striving for.
It's all a part of the transition process, regardless of whether we are in full transition or settling in at some non-binary mid-point, we are changing and along with that some of the previous perceptions give way to new ones. I gave up my eye rolling some time back when it dawned on me how condescending it looked to others, then came the big jump when i acquiesced to spending an entire day at the mall with my S.O. and found that it could be fun and enjoyable after all. Most of our previous behavior is learned through binary association, only a small part of it is hormonally driven. Attitudes that were taken on previously that are no longer valid can be disposed of as we embrace new ones to live by.
Quote from: Shantel on June 26, 2014, 09:24:55 AM
It's all a part of the transition process, regardless of whether we are in full transition or settling in at some non-binary mid-point, we are changing and along with that some of the previous perceptions give way to new ones. I gave up my eye rolling some time back when it dawned on me how condescending it looked to others, then came the big jump when i acquiesced to spending an entire day at the mall with my S.O. and found that it could be fun and enjoyable after all. Most of our previous behavior is learned through binary association, only a small part of it is hormonally driven. Attitudes that were taken on previously that are no longer valid can be disposed of as we embrace new ones to live by.
Very very well said Auntie Shan. I used to hate to grocery shop (I always liked other shopping though), I used to rush in, grab a cart in a store where I knew where everything I wanted was, and made rounds picking up things as fast as possible. This began to change 5 years ago when I went full time, and now that I'm in full transition I take my time. And since I have I find I actually enjoy the experience. I also no longer get mad when the store moves things around. I find now that I forget less, and no longer need a grocery list. I also have met some nice people since I've slowed things down. I've really changed many other habits as well. And I'm really enjoying the experience.
Ally :icon_flower: