Susan's Place Transgender Resources

When I was trying to find a way forward through crisis point gender dysphoria, an internet search turned up this online book.

I read it and reread it, and I thought about what transitioning would entail, and I continued thinking for about six months.  I am very glad I took the time because I started transitioning with no expectations, aware of what I was potentially going to lose and realistic about what my life will be like on the other side.

Yet I never see it mentioned here.

Did anyone else read it? Don't be put off by the title :)

http://tgchatroom.com/wiki/index.php/So_You_Want_To_Be_a_T-Girl_(Chapter_1) (http://tgchatroom.com/wiki/index.php/So_You_Want_To_Be_a_T-Girl_(Chapter_1))

Yes, I believe I read parts of it (looks familiar, but I can't be sure).

If it's the book I think it is, I think its view of transition was WAY too bleak and severe.

Quote from: suzifrommd on July 10, 2014, 06:23:42 AM
Yes, I believe I read parts of it (looks familiar, but I can't be sure).

If it's the book I think it is, I think its view of transition was WAY too bleak and severe.

It probably is the one you are thinking of.. I don't agree with it's outlook. I'm a mod on that site and I'm forever talking about it...

Thanks for sharing!

Yes, I did and next chapters are even more severe than the first one. There are many useful points and that approach of "no nonsense, straight true in ya face" has some kind of appeal, but there are other things I disagree with. But yeah, it was a useful read, nevertheless.

Suzi and Emily

I agree it's bleak, but knowing the worst case scenario makes the reality easier.  Transition has been far easier than I had expected it to be in many ways, so I think it's worth a read.

Kelly

Controversial, eh? ;)

Wednesday

Don't mention it!

Wow.  Sped read through the first chapter.

I found the picture bleak, and the tone condescending.  The points made however, are quite valid.

Now bells are going to be triggering...

QuoteAll the girls want to hear is that the life of a transsexual is all roses and laughter, silk and tight corsets, having fun playing girl, and wearing sexy lingerie.

Lol sorry i tried but i stopped reading right there. barf. I don't even wanna be reminded there are people that would agree with that statement seriously transitioning...

A friend of mine sent me a link to that and I read through it.

I found it extremely bleak.

It is one person's experience/opinion. I'm quite sure that the part that sad panda quoted is what some people expect going into a transition, and it is unfortunate that those people may find the experience very different than they were expecting. It is also unfortunate that some people find themselves destitute and having to make hard choices after transitioning.

But not everyone that transitions finds themselves standing on street corners looking for the next meal. The main lesson I took from that writing is to be prepared and to be realistic about what may happen afterward if the chips don't fall your way.

Transitioning is not something that a person does lightly on a lark. I'd hazard a guess that for many of us it is pretty much the last resort we have before pulling our own plug.  No one wants to be a transsexual. No one in their right mind would choose to be a transsexual.

My advice is to take that story with a grain of salt, and go into a transition with your eyes wide open.

Quote from: Eva Marie on July 10, 2014, 08:35:36 AM


But not everyone that transitions finds themselves standing on street corners looking for the next meal. The main lesson I took from that writing is to be prepared and to be realistic about what may happen afterward if the chips don't fall your way.

Transitioning is not something that a person does lightly on a lark. I'd hazard a guess that for many of us it is pretty much the last resort we have before pulling our own plug.  No one wants to be a transsexual. No one in their right mind would choose to be a transsexual.

My advice is to take that story with a grain of salt, and go into a transition with your eyes wide open.

Yes, absolutely that.  I think it's intentionally bleak and intentionally extreme, so you transition as a last resort and with a realistic view of what might happen. 

Then make sure to make the absolute best of it :)

I skimmed the beginning of it a while back... I felt that it had an "agenda" that was not in line with my goals. I wanted advice, and information, yet it seemed to be more of an argument of why one shouldn't do this. It is easy enough for me just to disregard anything that doesn't fit with what I want. I know what I want, I don't care how hard it is, or how many transwomen never pass, nothing short of death was going to dissuade me, and I felt a little offended that the book seemed to want to.

The irony of course is that the book sets all of this up, by saying that other information is biased, slanted, and "garbage" yet this is the book you have been looking for lol.

I ended up finding the TS roadmap, which presented basically all of the information I had been looking for when I stumbled upon that book. I hadn't really given that book much thought since then.

What I did read before starting my transition were mostly scientific and academic texts intended for doctors. My therapist said this on it: "You're taking your own diagnosis a bit too scientifically."

The only things I did read from our local community were articles about laser depilation, hair multiplication surgery, SRS and recovery... And then of course some stuff here. That's about it.

I don't trust anything that has a title saying that it's a guide to "being something". I'm not sure why.

What a load.  Sounds like someone got really bitter. 

I heard about it, but I didn't read it. I just couldn't be bothered to do it. I was never interested in stuff like that.

Quote from: Laura Squirrel on July 10, 2014, 11:12:30 AM
I heard about it, but I didn't read it. I just couldn't be bothered to do it. Stuff like that never interested me.

You mean reading in general or digesting hit pieces?

Quote from: Jill F on July 10, 2014, 11:13:54 AM
You mean reading in general or digesting hit pieces?

LOL!

Quote from: Jill F on July 10, 2014, 11:13:54 AM
You mean reading in general or digesting hit pieces?

Mostly reading self produced anthro porn and digesting cheese crackers.

When I transitioned in the late 90's, there was no shortage of doomsayers espousing dyer warnings about the potential horrors of transition.  Life is tough enough without deliberately exposing myself to fear mongers with an ax to grind. I am so not suggesting that anyone seriously contemplating transition should put on rose colored glasses and avoid contemplating the tough questions.  What I am suggesting is that immersing ourselves in worst case scenario literature/social situations can be every bit as harmful as burying one's head in the sand and pretending that transition will be easy. 

For the same reason that I recommend against going to trans-phobic therapists who believe that they can cure gender dysphoria, I recommend against giving too much energy to dystopic diatribes that seem intent on filling our hearts with fear.

A good therapist can help us to discover and set our feet upon the path that is ideal for us, whether that path includes transition or not.  Well balanced, illuminative literature should ideally serve the same purpose.  Getting too deeply involved in seemingly anti-transition literature could be enough to push someone who already feels like they're out of options over the edge. 

Anyway, that's how I feel about it.  I believe in balance, support, and self empowerment for anyone experiencing gender dysphoria.  From my way of thinking, fear mongering propaganda is antithetical to all three.

I did read that screed and reread it just now.  It is helpful to know that there are serious risks and the most truthful thing I read was that she is "not an expert."  Bleak and severe are just the beginning.  The diatribe is full of absolutes and even states that every transsexual has the same life story.  Oh really?  So we will all lose all our friends, lovers, homes and jobs?  So all of us must ascribe to the binary or be kidding ourselves? 

If someone wants to further their doubts, read another's strong opinions or question themselves needlessly this is a good resource. 

Quote from: Miharu Barbie on July 10, 2014, 12:09:04 PM
I am so not suggesting that anyone seriously contemplating transition should put on rose colored glasses and avoid contemplating the tough questions.  What I am suggesting is that immersing ourselves in worst case scenario literature/social situations can be every bit as harmful as burying one's head in the sand and pretending that transition will be easy...

Getting too deeply involved in seemingly anti-transition literature could be enough to push someone who already feels like they're out of options over the edge. 

Good points all, and point taken on the last part of the quote.  If the consensus is that the link should be removed I will edit the OP.

I read through the first chapter. Personally, I find the whole tone of the article to be condescending. While I may fit the author's description of a "true transexual", I don't identify with that concept because I think it is harmful. She seems locked in the idea that "Every transsexual has led the exact same life... just change the names, the dates, and the places, and they are interchangeable."

But I disagree. Not every TS knew what was wrong at an early age. Not every TS went through a period where they enjoyed crossdressing. Not every TS does macho things to overcompensate repressing their female selves.

Yes, I realize there are some commonalities to the typical TS experience. But who's to say everyone must follow that pattern? That idea can be extremely detrimental to those who don't. I mean, is the experience of a TS who realized she is a woman at 32 any less valid than someone who knew at age 6?

And what about the whole gender binary? The author seems to think you are either born a woman or a man. While I may identify with that, there are many who don't fit such a narrow minded definition. Gender is a spectrum. Those of us that are close to one end or the other of that spectrum can easily identify with the gender binary, but there are many in between. What of them? Are their experiences and self-identities any less valid?

So tell me, of these people who don't fit into the authors perfect idea of a "true transexual", who is to say what they should or shouldn't do with their lives and bodies and how far they should take transition? The author likes to emphatically declare that it is not the right choice for such people, but clearly her opinion is biased.

Now, I do understand the extreme caution the author is trying to convey in steering people away from transition as I'm sure there are some who want to transition and have GRS that will be unhappy afterwards if they do. But god, that's why counseling is available so people who aren't sure can explore those feelings and the reasons behind them. Get help and direction from an experienced professional, not some haughty transier-than-thou wack job on the internet.


As for the rest of what the author has to say, yes, it is bleak. But I didn't need her to point it out for me. I knew going into this what to expect for the worst possible scenario. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure that one out.

I may have no choice about transitioning, but I can choose to hope for something better, I can choose not to be mired in thoughts about how badly everything will go. Such thoughts tend to be self-fulfilling anyway if you dwell on them all the time.

I found the whole "oh just you wait little missy, you have no idea how big and bad this all is....!" tone somewhat mocking. And generalised, yep we all live the same lives with the same feelings. Another set of opinions - fine. :-\

I did read it. And it's quite harsh, and not pretty. But it's the reality. I disagree on many points she makes, but I can understand where they come from.

Transition is not easy, and shes does make valid points. I disagree that we all have the same experiences and go through the same, in many ways we do, but each life is too unique and rich to make such huge generalization. There are other topics where I think she is way too radical and extremist.

I do think she has good intentions, though. Basically the message I think she tries to get across is that to transition you must be REALLY REALLY be sure that it's what you want, and that you are ready for the challenges it will present to you. She warns to the multiple problems a transsexual will have to deal with, regarldless of the ability to blend in. It's eyes-opening in many ways. Obviously, she is way too negative and severe at times, but she does the right to caution anyone and make themselves prepared for the upcoming reality.

do anyone know the back ground of the author or is just an unknown writer putting something  on the internet. At just a first glance it looks like some one just opened a dictionary or encyclopedia and copied . To make these assumptions of a child desiring this because the child is aware of the reasons of pursuing this path or that there is any sort of rationale why anybody starts down this path earlier or later is taking one hell of a leap. This is an extremely complicated situation. I started at 4. How in the world do I have any idea what the hell I was doing other than the awareness by society I wasn't suppose to dress like I wanted. I had absolutely no concept of gender or what I wanted to be , I was just me. It seems to be a decent dictionary to describe terms to people who have had no encounter with this situation themselves . I think to use this as any personal guide is misplaced. I'd really like to know the authors back ground. Transgender is an incredibly difficult concept to understand and explain . I mean come on 4 years old when this hit me. so from birth to the age of 4 I some how became transgender. I only skimmed the fist chapter so I could be way off base, but as far as a transgender using this persons view about whether to transition or not is ludicrous .

Speaking from 40 years down the road I see what the author was attempting to do and I think it is good to take a pessimistic view of the future. Really, honestly, before transition NOBODY knows what the future is going to be like. It is far too easy to imagine all kinds of good things about being a girl but unless you transition as a teen and happen to be slender and pretty, it isn't going to be nearly so rosy. 90% of CIS girls don't even have life that easy. Even if you are pretty and transition young, living as a woman has enough challenges and disappointments.

A little dose of vinegar doesn't hurt. As she says, if you are transsexual, you don't transition because you want to but because you HAVE to.

I find many of the assertions to be outright lies versus my own experience. There is a line that goes something to the effect of Most transsexuals are sex workers at least temporarily.I find that not only to be offensive, but to be inaccurate. I have met only a few sex workers who were transsexuals, it is a stereotype that frustrates me. If someone is a sex worker, that is fine, how others live their life isn't much of my concern, but I still find that assertion rather offensive.

It isn't a case of tough love, it is a case of someone trying desperately to both validate their negative experiences, and also stoke their own ego, by making it seem "nearly impossible" and having persevered in the face of such adversity. If I wanted to get talked down to, in a condescending tone, with inaccurate information, I think I will look up this book again. The more I think on it, the more I realize publications like this do more harm than good for the community.

Well, I haven't read it, but after seeing all the reviews in this thread, I think I'll stay far, far away. Especially after the sex worker bit Hikari mentioned. If I had to read something like that, it would make my blood boil. I know transition can be very difficult for some, but Jesus, claiming the majority of us have to resort to sex work to get by? Seriously? That's extremely offensive to me.

Personally, my transition has been "sunshine and roses." At least compared to how life was before. It's kind of hard for life to go south when you start transition with no friends, no job, an estranged family, etc. Everything has improved since transition, because while I may still get depressed far more often than a "normal" person, I'm no longer so depressed that I can barely even get up in the morning. I actually have friends now that I'm communicating with people as myself instead of a carefully crafted lie. My mother and I actually get along for the first time ever. Transition was a total lifesaver for me. I'm pretty sure if I had read and listened to negative stuff before I set out on this path, it would have destroyed what little was left of me.

No, I did not read this book or any other book, blog, post, or email... I figure why to get my hopes up or down...

Now, after over 3 years doing the so called real-life experience, and reading countless stories in this forum, I can safely say that each transition story is unique but still some common elements have importance bearing on the type and quality of experience, and they are in descending importance:

• 
  your environment (what do you for living, how much money you have, where do you live, etc
  your emotional status (addiction, other mental problems)
  your genetic make up, which translates in you body type (eg. big bones, ahiry, broad shoulders, tall, big hands, etc.)
  Your weight, to thin and to heavy can be problematic
  Your attitude=self steam=self assurance
  

Good god, this is an obnoxious read, and incredibly offensive besides!  It's not even the bleakness of it all that bothers me, it's how many generalizations this gal passes off as fact with literally no basis to do so-apparently (and this is news to me) I'm not actually trans because I was fairly comfortable as a boy until puberty took charge, I don't buy into the gender binary, didn't self medicate, and not all of my friends abandoned me.  Apparently, I choose to be an activist not because I want to advance the rights of my community but because I will always be a "->-bleeped-<-", according to this lovely bit of BS.  There is no one correct way to go through transition, and whomever wrote this is really missing that point.  Also, if you've spent $20,000 on clothing since beginning your transition, I hate you. 

To any early-transition gals who stumble across this thread: Avoid this.  At all costs.

Quote from: Jill F on July 10, 2014, 11:05:28 AM
What a load.  Sounds like someone got really bitter.

Exactly. The sore thumbs stick out for a reason.

I perused each chapter and was thinking, "this is epic troll material right here" ;D

But in all seriousness, I think half the problems faced in transition could be solved if transitioners would just present a step or two beneath their passability. Keep presentation within reason to avoid the stink eye. I mean do you *HAVE* to wear lipstick and a mini skirt and heels if you still have outright manly features?

No. You don't. And keeping your job would become a lot easier.

I wonder whether the main issue is because this book is quite out-of-date? IMO, there are things which made little sense to me when I read it (and if You are searching info on interwebz, this book is hard to miss, cause is pops up with most popular T keywords). But if I try to rephrase the title in a way "How to transition if You are transsexual living in 1980-ties / early 1990-ties" then a lot of stuff it says starts making sense. But then again, a lot of that stuff is no more applicable novadays.
It scared me a lot when I read it, but there was a lot of stuff I instantly dismissed because I knew that was not going to happen with me - and it did not. So, in the end, if You can disassociate Yourself from the reading material and have a freetime - why not?

^^ Awesome sauce. I was thinking this also and couldn't pinpoint a date. "When was this written? 1980's when trans women had rockstar hair?"

Quote from: Evelyn K on July 11, 2014, 02:34:59 AM
"When was this written? 1980's when trans women had rockstar hair?"

That would not be surprising.. place it somewhen around 1987 (talking shows by Jerry Springer, Phil Donahue and others, the way transpeople were portrayed, other commonly seen stereotypes etc etc etc).

It has been commented on pretty thoroughly already, but can't help but add to the voices and say that this was one of the most obnoxious and hateful things I've ever read. I started reading it out of curiosity and I really, really wish I hadn't. I'm emotionally in a very vulnerable state of mind since the full puberty phase of HRT has hit me pretty recently and it just made me fearful and worried that I'm going to drop dead. Even though it's really not going to happen since I'm being monitored carefully and I've taken the safest route. Yeah, it's not bulletproof, but it's unlikely. Just try to get that out of your head once it sets in.

I actually tried to read it a couple of times out of curiosity before, but I was so put off by the introduction that I didn't. Now I tried to bite the bullet since there was a lot of discussion going on, but I should've followed my instincts. The introduction is so obnoxious in how it's basically just ego stroking for the author, basically saying "I'm not an expert, but everything I say is correct and if someone dares to say anything different, they're wrong and insane." and then going on about the fantastic page view count. You know what else has fantastic page views? It's not exactly the decider of quality. Also hated the boasting about having only a few pieces of negative feedback. I guess the author has decided to ignore all of it. It's easy if you count off all the negative feedback as coming from demented and childish brats. The level of arrogance is truly mindboggling.

But it got worse when it then went to cartoonish and offensive stereotypes about different kind of trans people was pretty much the worst part of it. The kind of holier-than-thou attitude about how you can only be a "real" transwoman if you do these things, have this kind of history and feel these exact things is truly outrageous. Anybody who claims to be more "real" or "valid" in their identity than you is as bad as the transphobics out there talking ->-bleeped-<- about us. The most offensive thing was saying that you're not a "real" woman if you plan on not going through GRS. Yeah, I'm planning to do it, but I know some transwomen who have decided against it and I can tell you that all of them are as much or even more women than I ever will be. And what's up with this binary cr#p anyway?

Of course, it was easy for me to take these outrageous things personally since I share pretty much nothing with the "true" transwoman history and the book pretty much is committed to belittling my personal history, experience and identity. And then there was the chapter about hormones, which I shouldn't have read, because my biggest fears at the moment in life are about something going wrong with it since it's been such a positive thing in my life and I feel alive for the first time in my life. And it has nothing to do with growing itty bitty titties or having softer skin. It's about finally feeling like myself as the dysphoria is subsiding with the mental changes as much or more than the preliminary physical changes. I'm not worried about dropping dead, we'll all do that eventually anyway, I'm worried of something happening that'll force me to stop taking the hormones and going back to the non-me that I've been since puberty.

The book says that every other resource and personal story has an ulterior motive, which it claims not to have. But this one is so transparent in having one that it's almost comical. But unfortunately in the end it did not make me laugh, it just made me angry and sad.

Here's a little gem of an excerpt

"Those Hormones!

Oh my, my... all the wonderful things you hear about hormones! The magic pills that grow boobs! The wonderful drugs that give you a feminine figure overnight! Make the hair on your arms disappear! The Life Blood of a T-girl, the Elixir of Life!

Get real, hon, right now, and I mean it. You are ->-bleeped-<-ing around with serious mind and body altering drugs that leave permanent scars and cause irreversible effects, complications, damage, diseases, and death. Now here is where every T-girl I ever met swears up and down that they know it all."

What a load of horse sh*t. I guess they never got the science right around then.

Quote from: Evelyn K on July 11, 2014, 03:02:40 AM
Here's a little gem of an excerpt

"Those Hormones!

Oh my, my... all the wonderful things you hear about hormones! The magic pills that grow boobs! The wonderful drugs that give you a feminine figure overnight! Make the hair on your arms disappear! The Life Blood of a T-girl, the Elixir of Life!

Get real, hon, right now, and I mean it. You are ->-bleeped-<-ing around with serious mind and body altering drugs that leave permanent scars and cause irreversible effects, complications, damage, diseases, and death. Now here is where every T-girl I ever met swears up and down that they know it all."

What a load of horse sh*t. I guess they never got the science right around then.

Sorry, Eve, but those pills are serious and body altering drugs :). I dont see how they can make permanent scars though, but a lot of stuff is irreversible and abuse can lead to internal organ damage or even death. If we take away all that boasting and "I know business" attitude, then the rest is kinda valid statement :).

I don't get the scars part either...

Ironically I just saw Cindy's thread about HRT induced cerebral brain clots which kinda scared the BEEP out of me.

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,169054.0.html

Quote from: Evelyn K on July 11, 2014, 03:35:07 AM
I don't get the scars part either...

Ironically I just saw Cindy's thread about HRT induced cerebral brain clots which kinda scared the BEEP out of me.

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,169054.0.html

I have read that overdosing hormones can literally burn down estrogen receptors in Your body, which sounds kinda scary too. Sure, they regenerate over the time, but while they are shut down, no matter how many hormones You take there is going to be 0 feminisation effect.

So I go to work and come back and while I'm away all this happened :D

I see some voices for and some voices against, mainly against.

Yes, there is the extremity of the viewpoint, and the hyperbole and the tone of the voice, but that kind of gets your attention, and I think that's what she set out to do, and you can see that from the contradictions that she's written into it.  Once you read between the lines you can see that she's really just laying out common sense things:

- see a proper therapist who knows what they're doing
- don't self medicate because you  might kill yourself
- do the legal thing properly to avoid problems later
- be prepared for your marriage to break down
- be prepared to be disowned by your children
- be prepared to lose your friends
- don't expect hormones to have magical feminising effects
- don't expect hormones to make you feel like a woman
- be prepared to lose your job
- be prepared to be on a lower income whatever your CV has on it
- be prepared to be ridiculed, laughed at and possibly attacked

And don't do it unless you absolutely have to. 

These are all valid points, many are mentioned time and again on this site,  and are certainly things you should have in mind before you start.

I thought about these things and I thought about them a lot, and when I could see no other way forward I broke down and talked to my partner, then talked to a therapist and got referred immediately to an an endo.  There have been dark moments since, but however hard it is I know there's no way back and I much prefer the future I see than that old life and the roadblock that sat across it.  I'm also prepared for any disappointments that come along, and I've been pretty lucky so far that there haven't been very many.

That's how I see it at least.

Joan,

I think the issue with the message is the presentation.  Tone is so very important about how things come across, and personally, I found the tone of the writing obnoxious, condescending, and bitter.

For those who are in a delicate state, it's a manifest saying "welcome to a super crappy life.  Go hang yourself cos you're going to have a terrible time."

In fact for me, the writing style made it difficult to take any positives from what she had to say.

I'm quite leery of reading something seemingly using a scientific approach or at least an authoritative approach who doesn't provide information of authoritative credentials. Why hide if you purpose is to help. I just have a severe problem with this. Everything said by this author I have seen throughout my life and in articles , such as employment prospects and social views. It seems to be a view of someone quite possibly who doesn't have a very understanding appreciation of being a transgender. of course as always I could be way off base because of my own bias of trying to understand why rather than worried about societies conundrum of what to do with me. Not that this is the actual case , but it can be viewed as someone who just thinks a transgender shouldn't transition because the society will toss that person in the gutter. I'm sorry I get a little weird sometimes about things being posted without authorship

I read that article somewhere on the net years ago and it scared the hell out of me. It certainly put me off transitioning earlier than I did. It is an out of date, bitter rant with a few truths expressed badly and tarted up with a lot of bile.

It may have been true 20 or 30 years ago in some highly intolerant backwater somewhere but it bears no relation at all to either my transition of that of my trans friends.

I agree that it seems quite outdated.  And those who transitioned 25+ years ago seem to all be on a mission to let us know how horrific this whole thing is, because that was their experience.  But as many have said, the world really is different now.  Our community has learned from their mistakes and failures. 

I really object to the narrative that all/most "true transexuals" were abused, addicted to drugs, were severely depressed, had attempted suicide, and were extremely socially impaired.  The so-called experts almost always go on to say that you shouldn't even attempt transition unless your only other option is death.  Really?  Well I'm just not that dramatic about anything in life.

That narrative kept me from transitioning earlier, because they made me feel like I couldn't really be transgender.  After all, I grew up in a stable 2-parent home, I was never abused, and I've never even taken drugs.  I've never attempted suicide, and have only had mild-moderate depression...and that only came on in the last year (I'm now 36). 

I don't fit their narrative, but that doesn't change the fact that I've known since I was 4 that I'm not right in this body.  And I don't appreciate their misguided attempts to steer me away from transition.  I'm not transitioning to get away from my horrific story, I'm transitioning because I need to do it to be me.  I want to have a future where I like who I am.  I'm pursuing the positive, not escaping the negative.  And according to these people that means I'm not a "true transexual."

Having said all that, I think I will read this over anyway as there are probably some tidbits of good information.   :)

I didn't get to far past the"definitions" which I think are absolutely horrible and wrong... Ive found the exact opposite to be true that no two transsexuals are the same...

Quote from: Annabolton on July 11, 2014, 12:25:22 PM
I didn't get to far past the"definitions" which I think are absolutely horrible and wrong... Ive found the exact opposite to be true that no two transsexuals are the same...

Exactly. If there's one thing I've learned from being involved in this community, it's this. There seems to be an infinite number of ways to identify, transition and experience dysphoria. Or not experience dysphoria at all. That was the biggest shock to me -- how different we all are. I had naively assumed all trans* people felt similar to me, once upon a time. Sadly, it sounds like this author never learned that lesson and is simply projecting her own experience onto everyone else.

After reading through this thread and reading the linked thread that Cindy posted, this is my viewpoint on all of it. This ONLY relates to me. This does NOT have anything to do with anyone else on this forum.

Okay.....

If I die from any complications from ANYTHING that is related to any medications that I am taking or medical procedures in relation to my transition, then that is the way that it goes for I. It doesn't matter to me at all. I know for an absolute fact that if I had not done what I did, I would be long dead anyway. Not to mention the fact that I had certain medical issues from birth that had some doctors convinced that I would have been dead by age 18. Well, I'm approaching 40 and I am still here, so whatever happens from here on out is what happens. I'm not going to worry about any of this.

Yup... I read it, and immediately I could sense that this was the personal story of a late-transitioner who was bitter about all the things she'd lost, and I couldn't help but laugh at some of the misinformation she has in there... (there is a lot of really accurate information in there too, but there's definitely a lot of comments that I can't take seriously.)



-"Transsexuals knew from their first memories that they were born in the wrong bodies." Wrong... we have many many transitioners on here (myself included) who didn't develop dysphoria until later in life, and WPATH's official guidelines basically state that this has nothing to do with one's validity as trans.

-"This explains why the vast majority of transsexuals are males..." wrong...

-Trying to claim that all transsexuals fit this same one-fits-all narrative where they knew from the age of 4-6 that something was wrong... again, not correct according to WPATH or the DSM.

-The entire section about young transitioners... "fully enjoying the ignorance of youth in a near perfect body with most of their problems solved!"... Wow, seeing the struggles of young transitioners through rose-colored glasses much? Jealousy showing through much? I know plenty of young transitioners, and they have just as many problems to overcome as anyone else does.

-Sheesh... okay, yes, you're probably going to lose something when you transition, (and I did lose my job,) but she makes it sound like everyone will lose everything due to transition. Again, this just sounds to me like the bitter ramblings of someone who did lose everything.

-"You surrender all you knew and loved, all your hope and self respect, and you trade it all for nothing more than a closet full of slutty club clothes and a few spike heeled shoes. You give up everything and what do you get in return? Prejudice and anger, misunderstanding and ridicule, beatings and death in the streets. You cannot get a job, you have no money, and the world insists that it constantly remind you that you do not belong... because you made a choice... a choice to live as a 6 foot tall, broad shouldered, ugly, hairy man in a dress. A choice to give up all you had for the right to wear pantyhose in public. Right."... Okay, while the intent here is admirable, to make sure that people who are just fetishizing about wearing "slutty" clothes and "playing girl" all the time know what they're getting into, this is just way too harsh on girls like me and my friends who really don't give two s***s about looking feminine as long as we can be girls, and spend most of our lives going out in t-shirts and jeans and normal everyday things. Plus I have to say, that entire phrase culminating in "ugly hairy man in a dress" is seriously just mean.

-Again, assuming that all trans women begin as crossdressers, and come to transition because they slowly get worse and worse. (I have to ask, was this article really written for trans women, or was it written to keep ->-bleeped-<-s away? That's what it seems like, is that it's basically speaking to ->-bleeped-<-s and others who fetishize transition, telling them to keep it in the realm of fantasy.)

-Seriously? "You will most likely never hear from any family ever again, that is just the odds at work."? Bulls***. I've yet to meet a trans woman in real life who lost her entire family. I know it happens sometimes, but most of the older transitioners I know, even those with kids, still keep in contact with them and still have great relationships with them. Yes, there's some resentment and some misgendering involved, and often an initial phase of denial, but going completely into the "I never want to see you again" realm is nowhere near as certain as she makes it sound like. Most families are at least willing to listen, and can accept that you're still the same person. Maybe I'm just biased too because I didn't lose any family or friends at all due to transition, but seriously, I think that just proves that transition isn't the social death-sentence she makes it out to be.

-"The friend thing is funny, but quite understandable in the end. You will lose all of them when you transition, just accept that."... Again, BULLS***. I came out in a very public fashion, right out front by just changing my name on my Facebook page and announcing that I was trans, and I didn't lose a single friend, plus got begged to come to my friends' 10-year high school reunion. Again... transition is not a death sentence. And I hate that this article is making all of these losses seem completely 100% certain and inevitable. They're not. Some will lose a lot. I'm not denying that. But it's not the big freaking deal that this article makes it out to be.

-"You are transitioning because you ARE different, and this is what makes all the difference to your friendships! What drew you together, what kept you together, is gone now. If you think you will still hunt and fish and play ball and chase women together, you are wrong..."... this makes me really question the author. I mean, am I doing this whole thing wrong? Because the last time I checked, my friends liked me because I had a good sense of humor, loved quoting nerdy references, doing voice imitations, and was a generally friendly and nice person who they knew they could trust to talk to, not because I had a penis.

Okay, can I ask this? Is this author seriously insinuating that one goes from being so deep in denial pre-transition that they refused to do absolutely anything that might get them read as gender-nonconforming, anything that might make people think that they were "gay" or anything? Are they seriously that deep in denial that they insist on doing only "masculine" things, and that therefore post-transition they really don't have any of those things left? And how is it even possible to go from completely male interests to completely female interests to the point where you have NOTHING in common with your old self like that? Isn't that just trading one set of cultural expectations that you're trying to live up to for another set of cultural expectations that you're trying to live up to? Going from being a stereotypical male to a stereotypical female? Maybe that's why this author is so bitter and miserable about transition... because just like she was trying to assert her maleness pre-transition, maybe now she's trying to assert her femaleness post-transition, and likewise failing to live up to those same cultural standards of femininity? Again, I'm biased on this, because I had very gender-neutral interests pre-transition, and now post-transition all I've done is taken that same basic behavior and added a few arbitrary things like nail painting and cute accessories which I really weren't "allowed" to do pre-transition. Every person I've met has realized that I'm exactly the same person they knew pre-transition, just a girl now. So frankly I feel like this entire article is lacking a true sense of personhood and authenticity. I feel like she's whining about how she's not living up to society's standards of femininity.

-"If you are a real transsexual, you were born a woman. All you did after the childhood beatings and ridicule was designed to cover up the truth through exaggeration. You learned to become a man, to project the image of a man to the world. You were not though. It was, in fact, all a lie."... yup. There we go. I knew it. And come on, "if you are a REAL transsexual?" Bulls***. All I see in this post is "Look at how authentically trans I am because I SUFFERED!" and "Look at how authentically female I am, because I do womanly things and my male friends don't understand me anymore!"

-"Of the millions of men who attempt the transition, less than 15% make it, and that 15% certainly does not have it easy. Think about this too... the 85% that fail? They go back to living as a man, in the comfortable world they knew and can function in."... According to what? I've NEVER seen that mentioned anywhere before, and there's no citation or anything. So is it right for me to assume that this is just a statistic that you pulled out of thin air?

-"You have looked at all the silly feminine websites out there from Crossdresser Sally and Terri-the-TV to Jean's World and The Rose Garden... you know, the giggling female wannabees who have websites with flowers and pink scripted writing all over them. They talk about their wonderful lives in spike heels and satin corsets, giggle about the silky clothing, and flirt with the boys as if they were a 45 year old schoolgirl."... Again, am I living in a different world here? Is she really talking about transsexual women here, or is she talking about cross-dressers? Or maybe it's just a Cleveland thing, where just about every trans woman my age that I've ever met doesn't give two s***s about pink and frills and corsets and thinks that these markers of femininity are horribly cliched? They see transition as actually being physically female, getting smooth skin and boobs and "female" fat and a vagina as their primary transition goals, not to be able to go around in some feminine princess fantasy? Again, I don't know. This just doesn't ring true to me at all.



I'll stop there. Again, all I see in her writings is bitterness, overblown doom-and-gloom, jealousy of young transitioners, overcompensatig and divisive wording that puts other people down for the sake of her feeling superior and "->-bleeped-<-r than thou" and "womanlier than thou," (you know anyone who says "TRUE transsexual" in anything is pulling that nonsense,) and it frankly feels like one giant vent of self-loathing more than anything.

Also, again, I feel like this was almost written more for cross-dressers than for transsexuals. It reads like one giant discouragement for people who are fetishizing transition and who really do think that femaleness is all about frills and dresses and makeup and heels, rather than for people who see femaleness as nothing more than another way to be human and do normal everyday human stuff. So, okay, I guess it serves a purpose to keep fetishists who probably shouldn't transition from transitioning, but it's seriously just so unnecessarily discouraging to those who are transsexual. How many people have staved off transition for these exact reasons, because they were afraid of being a freak, because they were afraid of just looking like a "man in a dress," and ultimately denied themselves of happiness because of it? This article is SO hurtful in that regard.

I guess all I can say is, trans girls, take this article as one person's experience, and take it as a worst-case scenario, the ramblings of a very bitter woman who went through hell and lost everything and everyone due to transition, and so she thinks that she can make generalizing statements about everyone. Likewise, take my responses to her as the ramblings of a trans girl who didn't get dysphoria until I was a teenager, didn't really "overcompensate," and who avoided transition for a good 13 years because of "->-bleeped-<-r than thou" articles exactly like this making me question myself and scaring me away from it due to social fear. I told myself for years and years and years "nobody would understand." Well, guess what? They did understand.

Carrie, a lot of what you said about this article hits home with me and I agree with your views 100% My situation is different, but like you say that's how it is, we're all a little different in who we are, what we went through, and how we got to this point in our lives. So yes, I agree this article should be taken as one woman's experience, nothing more.

I thank you for saying what needed to be said about this. :icon_bunch:

Ally :icon_flower:

Okay, I'm sorry for double-posting here, but I just read something that is seriously the straw that broke the camel's back:

"For every girl who does actually get the surgery, another ten do not. At last count there were 100,000 post-op TS's on the North American continent. That means that about a million pre-op TS's are out there! And why? Because of the money? Nope... A girl will spend $15,000 on hair removal, $20,000 on facial feminization, and another $20,000 on clothes, but not $20,000 on the ultimate girl-creating operation? Pray tell, why?

I'll tell you why... simply put, a true transsexual is rare."

Do I even need to say it? That's seriously the last straw. Don't listen to anything that this bigoted "->-bleeped-<-r than thou" b**** has to say. She's seriously claiming that anyone who doesn't want SRS isn't a "true" transsexual, and that lesbians aren't "true" transsexuals. She's trying to prop herself up on a pedastal of transness by bringing others down and belittling their desires to transition, and propping herself up on a pedestal of femaleness because she does womanly things. Again, screw you, b****. She's officially crossed the line from mildly offensive into bigoted hurtful intolerance territory.

(She even tries to claim in the "transition" section that the average trans woman is more feminine than the average cis-woman because they have more "pent-up feminine sexual energy" and know how to jerk guys off. Just wow...)

Again, trying way too hard to validate one's transness and one's femaleness much?

Quote from: Carrie Liz on July 11, 2014, 08:45:46 PM
Okay, I'm sorry for double-posting here, but I just read something that is seriously the straw that broke the camel's back:

"For every girl who does actually get the surgery, another ten do not. At last count there were 100,000 post-op TS's on the North American continent. That means that about a million pre-op TS's are out there! And why? Because of the money? Nope... A girl will spend $15,000 on hair removal, $20,000 on facial feminization, and another $20,000 on clothes, but not $20,000 on the ultimate girl-creating operation? Pray tell, why?

I'll tell you why... simply put, a true transsexual is rare."

I'm sorry... F*** YOU!!! That's it. Don't listen to a damned thing that this bigoted "->-bleeped-<-r than thou" b**** has to say. She's seriously claiming that anyone who doesn't want SRS isn't a "true" transsexual, and that lesbians aren't "true" transsexuals. Again, f*** you, b****. She's officially crossed the line from mildly offensive into bigoted intolerance territory.

ditto   (I'm glad I only skimmed the first chapter)

I read it last year and it scared the stuffing out of me.
Didn't change my mind.
And she has a perfect right to be a nasty bitter old cat lady with a transgender history.

Quote from: Shakira on July 11, 2014, 08:55:00 PM
I read it last year and it scared the stuffing out of me.
Didn't change my mind.
And she has a perfect right to be a nasty bitter old cat lady with a transgender history.

I just skimmed the other chapters the invisible identity person is definitely bitter/

Carrie, that is a wonderfully accurate and devastating deconstruction. Nice job!

Carrie, that was FANTASTIC!

One thing stood out to me in the opening paragraphs. She was very proud of the fact that she only ever had 2 negative comments about the book compared to thousands of positive comments. Hmm.  If that's true, why has every last person here had nothing but bad things to say about it?

->-bleeped-<-r than thou. Indeed.

Summary of Chapter 2:

-Anyone who is "out and proud" isn't really a woman
-Anyone who doesn't want SRS isn't really a woman
-Anyone who identifies as "transsexual" or as a "trans woman" rather than just "a woman" isn't really a woman
-Anyone who identifies as genderqueer or anything other than male or female is a freak... "you're either born male or female."
-Anyone who is an activist or out publicly or campaigning for trans rights isn't really a woman
-People who are indeed campaigning for trans rights are only doing it because they're too cowardly to go stealth or because they're upset about being unable to go stealth, or they're not "real women" because they love the trans label
-Anyone who visits trans forums or goes to support groups isn't a woman... if you were a real woman you'd quickly realize you didn't belong there
-Trans women shouldn't compete in sports, because it makes it harder for "true" transsexuals to just be women without medical scrutiny
-Sexual orientation doesn't really exist, any woman can be either straight or a lesbian if she decides to
-Therefore, trans lesbians don't really exist, they're really just trans women who are too cowardly to date straight men and too cowardly to be female enough to go stealth, because being sloppy and claiming that you're a lesbian is easier than being a "real woman" (kinda indirectly insinuating that lesbians aren't "real women" either.)
-Unless you are completely stealth, people aren't really accepting you, they're just tolerating you
-Nobody really passes


Shouldn't have expected much else...

Yet again, there was some useful information, but it's interspersed with a bunch of horror stories about murder and doom and gloom and about how nobody "really" accepts trans women, and divisive self-promoting bulls*** about who is a "real" woman and who isn't, and why she's a "real" woman because she dates straight men and does womanly things and cares about her hair and presentation and being desirable to men unlike those lesser inauthentic trans lesbians. *goans...*

(Also, I find it HILARIOUSLY ironic that she acknowledges that passing is really hard, that violence against trans women happens, discrimination happens, and that being in this "purgatory" phase of transition completely sucks, ALSO acknowledging that a great many trans women are stuck there permanently and don't even have the option of going stealth, and yet at the same time she's belittling the very people who are campaigning to make this between-genders phase of transition more tolerable. I can't believe she doesn't see the sheer stupidity in that...)

Ugh... As a trans* lesbian who has had to deal with this sort of "you're not a REAL woman because you like other women" nonsense, this makes me rage. Seriously, where does this notion come from that to be authentically feminine you have to be attracted to masculinity? How does that even make any logical sense? Urgh!

*deep breaths*

I blame the patriarchy personally...

Quote from: Pikachu on July 11, 2014, 11:25:09 PM
Ugh... As a trans* lesbian who has had to deal with this sort of "you're not a REAL woman because you like other women" nonsense, this makes me rage. Seriously, where does this notion come from that to be authentically feminine you have to be attracted to masculinity? How does that even make any logical sense? Urgh!

*deep breaths*

Ditto! I feel the same way Pikachu! You took the words from my fingers. By her reasoning, cis lesbians aren't real women either. Let her go try and tell one of them that.

Ally :icon_flower:

Carrie Liz : That was FANTASTIC.  I only wish I could have done as good a job as you did tearing it apart, so I'll just point to your posts in admiration and say I agree 100%. :)

I tried to read a bit of this early on... and it damned near convinced me I shouldn't transition, because I didn't know when I was a toddler, I was not hyper-masculine (or planning to be hyper-feminine) and I preferred women. I spent a long time thinking I was, in fact, a fake and a lie because of crap like this. And yet, I've transitioned - including her holy grail of bottom surgery, thanks - and am blissfully happy, so I may not be a "true transsexual" but I am really trans.

From what I've read, a lot of what was written seems to go against a lot of what people report.

The whole idea that "you are no longer you" just seemed a bit to fiction to me....

Not to say that everything was wrong, but the writer really seemed kind of negative....

Summary of Chapter 3: (Last one! Whew!)

-"Stealth is an illusion and a lie. You're never truly stealth, you'll always be found out somehow in some way, especially now that everything is posted on the internet. So you'd better destroy any and all records of your former male life, and you'd better be prepared to move a lot, because as soon as it gets out, the illusion is over, and you're right back to just being a tr***y, and you need to move to another town and pick up the pieces all over again. It's a never-ending battle, and not a lot is written in this chapter here because everything that was relevant to this chapter was already written in Chapter 2. It never ends. A never ending cycle of tremendous ups and tremendous downs, lies upon lies, hardship on hardship, to cover up the truth that you were born male."


So let me get this straight... according to this author, trans women will NEVER be completely happy. That in order to be a "true" transsexual you have to go stealth, have to get SRS, have to change your legal documents, can't be out, can't be known as trans by anyone, you have to pass completely, and yet at the same time you're saying that it's basically ultimately pointless to be this "true" transsexual anyway because you'll never escape it, you'll always be found out eventually, you'll always be plagued by your past, stealth isn't real it's just the "illusion of stealth," and presumably you'll never reach the "Holy Grail" of just being able to be a regular woman and not think about it, you'll always have to disclose your past and live in perpetual lies when socializing with groups of women or while dating a man.

So WHAT WAS THE POINT? Seriously... you spent this ENTIRE article dividing the community, talking about who is a "true" transsexual or not, actually putting down those who are campaigning for trans rights and working to actually fix this problem with being found out being such a big flipping life-destroying deal, and you're trying to proclaim your transition path as the one and only divine and true path of the "true" transsexual, and yet you ended up miserable anyway. All while judging people who actually are happy by claiming that they are not "real" women.

If you want me to make a really honest opinion... you're miserable BECAUSE you're constantly trying to prove to everyone how authentically female and authentically trans you are. Because you're constantly trying to put yourself above others and prove that you're more "authentic." Because instead of building others up, all you're doing is knocking them down and trying to prove that you're better than them, complaining the whole way.

Frankly, I'm starting to be glad that I'm not a "true" transsexual according to her definition. :P

Nice BBQ, Carrie! 

I think we should print that article up in rolls of 2-ply myself.

I'd just vote for a good pair of scissors, or maybe a really big jar of white-out. There is some good information in there. You just have to learn what's good information and what's bitter divisive "->-bleeped-<-r than thou" bulls***.

Keep what's good, cut out what's bad.

I'm glad I read it, because it did indeed teach me some good lessons about pressing on through the "purgatory" phase where one is kinda passing but not sure. I like that advice about getting a job however mundane, volunteering somewhere, having a pet, anything to get you out of the house every single day because it forces you to keep going and to get used to just living your life, and the only way you learn the feminine mannerisms and speech patterns is through constant real-world practice.

(Kinda funny, she spends the whole article talking about how women are born, not made, and yet she openly admits that these same "true transsexuals" who were supposedly "born women" still need to learn the mannerisms and behaviors. Whatever... I've roasted this article for its endless contradictions and flawed logic already. :P)

I read most of Chapter 1, and frankly I enjoyed it. Yes it is bleak and extreme, the terminology seems to be from 25-30 years ago and that is why I like it. If I didn't read this particular text prior to my journey through transition, I read something very similar. I read somewhere between 40 and 50 books on transgender care and issues. I purposely sought out the most negative texts I could find and the most positive I could find. I sought out as many viewpoints as I possibly could because that was the best way for me to make informed decisions about my medical care. Yes this was extreme BS. There are many books and texts on the positive side that are just as extreme on the BS meter. It reminds me of one of my favorite quotes:


I am a firm believer that no one book or viewpoint is absolutely correct (in this or any situation). By reading many different viewpoints it allows us to make informed decisions.

This 'story' has been both eye opening and poison for my brain. Seriously, someone asked me how I was yesterday and I just ran to the loos and cried. Is this what its all going to be like? Is it a helpless cruel lifelong torture? It has shook me up to address some of the things I kinda knew and scared the living daylights out of me.
:-/

@AllisonSteph Chapters two and three are much worse.

Personally I am at the beginning of her stage three. Some of what she said is true and others are not. I still have friends but they are very different to the friends I had, but I have brought some with me. I have members of my family who are OK with me, but yes, when I drove past my dad in his car yesterday it still made me emotional. I am not sure how love-matters will be going forward, and I don't even know what I can hope for. That scares me.

I personally agree that it is probably healthy to get out and get a job though Carrie. Though I have a job that I transitioned in that I wont give up as its quite well paid and the work is good, I took on another job as a waitress that I am stealth in and, though the work is tough it has taught me a lot, plus having guys ask for your number all the time is a bit of a boost.

She does write a lot of crap though about who meets the requirements and is allowed coveted membership of  (dur dah dun dun....) the sisterhood (gasp ... sideways looks). It scared me as I measured myself up in every way and although I am a very good fit, anything that didn't align or left doubt that I would not measure ut, meant she was saying I will end up topping myself alone. I believe stick the gun to your head now, was how she put it somewhere in chapter 2.

Time to let it go and move on forward.

Bravo Carrie for reading through all of it so that many of us don't have to.  And for takin the time out to deconstruct her arguments.

I couldn't bring myself to read chapter 1 deeply, let alone the rest - it was toxic vitriol for me. As I said before, the way it's written, the good points she makes are lost in the noise.

Personally, I need no validation, save for myself, and my God.

Kira : Oh, honey, no. Look at all the people right here saying that they transitioned and are HAPPY. :)  It's possible not to lose friends, family, or job; it's possible to be imperfect and still go on to live a happy, fulfilling life. I feel sorry for her and her misery, but she's NOT the only life story out there, no matter what she says.

thank you x

Kira, don't think about it in terms of loss, but all you have to gain. Think of all the new friendships and experiences you'll have now that you're being you. The authentic you is a very beautiful person with a charming, engaging personality. And I think you're rather cute, too.

Transition is like anything else in life, the outcome is extremely individualized and unpredictable. Don't let one person's bad experience ruin yours. I think you're going to be just fine. :)

I'm deeply sorry if posting this link has caused distress to anyone, and I'm impressed by the posts that have challenged and deconstructed the bleakness of the piece (especially Carrie!).

Like Allisonsteph I'm in the 'read as much as possible and get as many viewpoints as you can' camp.  I find the writing less condescending than impassioned, pleading with the reader to consider what they are about to do very, very carefully.  I guess we all read things differently. 

On my part, despite inevitable ups and downs, I'm much happier about life than I have ever been before now that I am transitioning.  My SO is my biggest supporter, my friends are with me and from the support I've received from colleagues I've come out to the chances of being able to transition in my current job seem to be fairly high.  HRT is being good to me, and I'm generally strong enough to not let getting clocked bother me.  I am thankful for all of these things because I know that things could have been much worse.  The article in the link prepared me for the worse, and the better that I have is sweeter for that warning.

Good luck to everyone in your transition, and I hope you all find the happiness you deserve.

Quote from: Joan on July 12, 2014, 09:58:42 AM
I find the writing less condescending than impassioned, pleading with the reader to consider what they are about to do very, very carefully.  I guess we all read things differently.

The fact that she constantly uses the word "hun" in this article to talk down to people says it all to me. That tone is basically saying "you don't know anything, you poor pathetic wannabe trans girl. I am above you! And I know the truth."

Quote from: Carrie Liz on July 12, 2014, 11:49:32 AM
The fact that she constantly uses the word "hun" in this article to talk down to people says it all to me. That tone is basically saying "you don't know anything, you poor pathetic wannabe trans girl. I am above you! And I know the truth."

I find it curious that so many seem to accept the author as a transgender or even as female . once again I could be way off, but to just except an author who puts out an essay without any name other then unknown . I'm just speculating this could be some one that thinks transgender shouldn't exist or force those in extreme depression over the nonreturnable  edge I don't mean to be mean spirited , but it's this persons fault for not leaving their essay open for criticism other then to an unnamed author. Again , I could be way off base and if so I'm sorry, it's just my opinion.

Quote from: Jenna Marie on July 12, 2014, 09:07:38 AM
Kira : Oh, honey, no. Look at all the people right here saying that they transitioned and are HAPPY. :)  It's possible not to lose friends, family, or job; it's possible to be imperfect and still go on to live a happy, fulfilling life. I feel sorry for her and her misery, but she's NOT the only life story out there, no matter what she says.

Kira, I agree with what Jenna says above. You yourself know your a beautiful woman. Yes, we all have our individual degrees of highs and lows during transition but that's what makes us individuals. I try and focus on how much happier I am now that I'm finally living my life as who I am, and not some pretender. You should as well. None of us need anyone's approval of who we are individually, or more comparisons to other peoples lives, ie: this poor Author. We all had enough of that while pretending to be and live as someone we're not.

Just be you and be happy, and take this article for what it is -one woman's experience. Nothing more.

Best wishes :icon_bunch:
Hugs :icon_hug:
Ally :icon_flower:

According to the author I am a fake transsexual... and you know what if she's whats considered a true transsexual than im proud not to be what she is...

Quote from: katiej on July 11, 2014, 12:19:40 PM.......  And those who transitioned 25+ years ago seem to all be on a mission to let us know how horrific this whole thing is, because that was their experience.

Don't be tarring us all with the same brush!

Quote from: Northern Jane on July 12, 2014, 06:52:29 PM
Don't be tarring us all with the same brush!

I ran out of tar. How about I grease & spoon you instead?

I really don't think this was written 25+ years ago, given that she talks about the internet.

I just read chapter 1. It is a person's journey. I see trans sex workers every week and an thankful I have support. Although I have lived a hell others have had it much worse.

Susan's, an intake at Mazzoni and then therapy saved my life. December 2013 was so bad I though for sure I would not make it. The past year just keeps getting better. I am truly lucky and I say that from the relative comparison of others I see and talk to. I am coming from 0 so onward and upward. 

Quote from: Pikachu on July 12, 2014, 07:59:30 PM
I really don't think this was written 25+ years ago, given that she talks about the internet.

I had dial up internet (though back then it wasn't called the internet) in 1986, but I see your point though. It's the way she talks about the internet.

Ally :icon_flower:

It was written in about 2004 or so according to the article itself. It cites violence and murders done in 2002, and talks about it like it was fairly recent, so go figure.

Quote from: Laura Squirrel on July 12, 2014, 07:03:57 PM
I ran out of tar. How about I grease & spoon you instead?

Oh no! not the greasy spoon!!!

Ally :icon_flower:

I read it before I started my transition.   Figured even that was better than what was going on in my life.  Now, every time something good happens, I'm really excited.

Hugs

Jen

Quote from: Allyda on July 12, 2014, 08:30:18 PM
I had dial up internet (though back then it wasn't called the internet) in 1986, but I see your point though. It's the way she talks about the internet.

Ally :icon_flower:

I still have dial-up. It's the only thing available in my area.

1986, huh? That's the year I was born, hehe~ We didn't have internet until '95-ish.

I personally think she has a rather cartoonish vision of both transitioning/transitioned trans women, and those who seek to transition, potentially even the female gender as a whole; which does a disservice to us all. All of our stories are the same? I don't think so lol.. It would be just laughable if that tirade wasn't doing any harm... I also think it is quite North American centric, the shrill tone seems tone seems to suggest that as the geographic source to me (I apologise to my North American sisters/friends, I'm not saying that's how any of you come across, it's just something I've noticed in popular media etc). As for me, I am not, nor will I ever be some nails and hair obsessed fashionista or some lace and silk obsessed closet fiend. The sort of women I look up to are intelligent and practical people, NZ has a fine tradition of educated, liberal and practical rural women. My mother, for example, runs her own agricultural business, drives tractors and four wheel motorbikes, and sails competitively. My grandmother could still shear a sheep into her 60's while running a multi million dollar family business, she is probably the most formidably intelligent person I've ever met too.

Anyway I'm starting my MSc in geology next year (fingers crossed some scholarships come through!), and I will just keep working towards being the calm, graceful, intelligent, educated (and hopefully respected) woman that any family would be proud of.

I read it when I first started accepting I was trans but the last part of it really pissed me off....  There are so many things in there that don't sit well with me, but reading things like this (and talking to my therapist) have helped me just embrace the fact that I am me, and I don't give a damn if anyone else labels me as a man, woman, straight, gay, trans, whatever.   I don't see why taking a "bastardization of a male name" as a female name even matters. 

If your friends and family all know and love you as "Jack" then a move to "Jacqueline" is not absurd in the least. 


You Shouldn't Transition If...

You shouldn't transition if you are a crossdresser, ->-bleeped-<-, or drag queen... if you have pictures of yourself on the net that are sexual in nature or of you in a hotel room... if female clothing turns you on... if you go to meetings at a crossdresser club, a transsexual club, or a gay rights group... if you are "out and proud" (lesbians don't count)... if you took a bastardization of a male name for your female name...if you took something like "Luvs" or "Aphrodite" or some other overly-feminine, ridiculous, childish word or name as part or all of your new name... if you hang out in drag bars... if your friends hang out in drag bars... if you have a "drag mother"... if you go out in 6" heels and mini skirts... if you own 6" heels and mini skirts... if you do not own a pair of jeans and sneakers... if you penetrate men in the anus during sexual intercourse... if you "dress up" to masturbate... if you can't have sex naked... if you think playing with your breasts after they grow would be "cool"... if you want to be a porn star or an escort after you transition... if you can't visit with every single one of your co-workers, friends, family, children, parents, or anyone else on the planet for that matter, afterwards... if you still own a single item of male clothing... if you display photos of the "old" you... if you still have a single piece of your male life intact... if you still go out as a male for any reason now... if you do not plan on, are working towards, or already have tried to get GRS... if you do not have a plan that will see you through to stealth and beyond... if you think your voice doesn't need work... if you consider yourself a "transgender", "gender ->-bleeped-<-", or label yourself as anything other than a woman... if you describe yourself as "sexually confused", a "freak", or un-definable... if you plan on being a transsexual rather than a woman... if you want to keep your penis... if you think it will be easy... if you start a fight when you get clocked... if you haven't seen a psychiatrist, a doctor, and a lawyer yet... if you get your hormones without a legitimate prescription while under a doctors care... if you want more out of the transition than what any other woman out there has now... if you think transitioning will make you happy... if you want to become a transsexual, or, if you want to become a woman.

FilaFord : Good grief, there are cis women who think playing with their own breasts is cool, wear 6" heels, or like to penetrate men. :) Also, "because it'll make you happy" is a GOOD reason to transition!

(Oh, and don't do it if you want to become a transsexual *or* if you want to be a woman? What does that leave for a trans woman - only transition if you wanted to be a man?!)

Quote from: Jenna Marie on July 12, 2014, 10:57:37 PM
FilaFord : Good grief, there are cis women who think playing with their own breasts is cool, wear 6" heels, or like to penetrate men. :) Also, "because it'll make you happy" is a GOOD reason to transition!

(Oh, and don't do it if you want to become a transsexual *or* if you want to be a woman? What does that leave for a trans woman - only transition if you wanted to be a man?!)

RIGHT!? 

Like seriously, I remember reading that and I was just floored.  I couldn't believe that an actual transwoman had written that garbage.  It was basically saying "if you are reading this page, then you shouldn't transition"

Reading it definitely helped though.  Although I look back and have some regrets regarding my transition, I have come a long damn way this year.  It amazes me when I think about it all really and my therapist is so encouraging.  She constantly praises me and says that she rarely sees someone progress at the rate that I have.  From self-denying, to part-time in about 6 months, and HRT and full-time by the end of the year.  I'm feeling mighty glad that I didn't listen to this article and not transition for any of those silly reasons.

Quote from: Jenna Marie on July 12, 2014, 10:57:37 PM
FilaFord : Good grief, there are cis women who think playing with their own breasts is cool, wear 6" heels, or like to penetrate men. :) Also, "because it'll make you happy" is a GOOD reason to transition!

(Oh, and don't do it if you want to become a transsexual *or* if you want to be a woman? What does that leave for a trans woman - only transition if you wanted to be a man?!)

Nah, what she's actually trying to say is that you should only transition if you ARE a woman, not because you want to "become" one. She talks about it in depth in the next chapter. Basically, her whole thesis is about how you have to have known you were really a woman from the age of 4-6 to be a "true" transsexual, and that if you're not a "true" transsexual you shouldn't transition at all. Again, it's just a bunch of "->-bleeped-<-r than thou" bulls*** where she's trying to say that she's more authentic and more female than everyone else because she's a WOMAN, not a tr***y.

QuoteYou Shouldn't Transition If...

You shouldn't transition if you are a crossdresser, ->-bleeped-<-, or drag queen... if you have pictures of yourself on the net that are sexual in nature or of you in a hotel room... if female clothing turns you on... if you go to meetings at a crossdresser club, a transsexual club, or a gay rights group... if you are "out and proud" (lesbians don't count)... if you took a bastardization of a male name for your female name...if you took something like "Luvs" or "Aphrodite" or some other overly-feminine, ridiculous, childish word or name as part or all of your new name... if you hang out in drag bars... if your friends hang out in drag bars... if you have a "drag mother"... if you go out in 6" heels and mini skirts... if you own 6" heels and mini skirts... if you do not own a pair of jeans and sneakers... if you penetrate men in the anus during sexual intercourse... if you "dress up" to masturbate... if you can't have sex naked... if you think playing with your breasts after they grow would be "cool"... if you want to be a porn star or an escort after you transition... if you can't visit with every single one of your co-workers, friends, family, children, parents, or anyone else on the planet for that matter, afterwards... if you still own a single item of male clothing... if you display photos of the "old" you... if you still have a single piece of your male life intact... if you still go out as a male for any reason now... if you do not plan on, are working towards, or already have tried to get GRS... if you do not have a plan that will see you through to stealth and beyond... if you think your voice doesn't need work... if you consider yourself a "transgender", "gender <not allowed>", or label yourself as anything other than a woman... if you describe yourself as "sexually confused", a "freak", or un-definable... if you plan on being a transsexual rather than a woman... if you want to keep your penis... if you think it will be easy... if you start a fight when you get clocked... if you haven't seen a psychiatrist, a doctor, and a lawyer yet... if you get your hormones without a legitimate prescription while under a doctors care... if you want more out of the transition than what any other woman out there has now... if you think transitioning will make you happy... if you want to become a transsexual, or, if you want to become a woman.

*blink blink*

Um... exactly who does this leave?

I'm having trouble believing anyone could seriously write the above paragraph. Some of these are just utterly silly. Women never play with their own breasts? Women don't want to be women? Women shouldn't be happy? Well, I guess the last one explains a lot about why the author has the kind of attitude she does...

EDIT: Now that the initial shock has worn off, I can't resist dissecting this ludacris paragraph a little more...

First off, you shouldn't transition if you are a crossdresser? I thought early crossdressing was part of the standard transgender narrative that she seems so passionately beholden to.

What in the world does having sexy pictures of yourself on the internet have to do with anything? Is this supposed to suggest that if you are truly dysphoric, you wouldn't have posted pictures of your pre-transition body? I don't buy that at all. A lot of times people are manipulated into doing something like that, too. My ex is probably still in possession of some pictures I hope never see the light of day.  :-\

You're apparently not allowed to support gay rights in any way if you are trans*. Okay... You know, it is possible to be both gay and trans. And being both myself, issues like marriage equality still affect me.

I can only be "out and proud" if I'm a lesbian? Am I reading that right? ...What?

Do I even need to dignify that bit about names with a rebuttal?

I'm not allowed to have friends who hang out in drag bars. Why? Why would I care what kind of places my friends hang out?

You're not trans if you don't own jeans and sneakers. Or if you do own heels and mini-skirts. She's taking fashion policing to a whole new level here.

Quoteif you can't visit with every single one of your co-workers, friends, family, children, parents, or anyone else on the planet for that matter, afterwards...

???

Don't even know what to say about that particular sentence, other than it confuses me to no end.

Quoteif you still have a single piece of your male life intact...

Because you should be completely unrecognizable after transition and not have one single thing in common with your former life. Right. That makes sense. What kind of person is so shallow that all their interests and every aspect of their personality is tied into their gender?

Quoteif you still go out as a male for any reason now...

So all the trans women who force themselves to preset as male when going to visit family members who can't deal with the change aren't real women. Otherwise they would not even consider trying to keep their family relations intact.

Quoteif you do not plan on, are working towards, or already have tried to get GRS...

Well, I'm clearly not a real woman. Apparently being a woman is all about what you have or don't have between your legs. This REALLY bothers me because what it's implying is that women are mainly sex objects. That womanhood depends on your ability to have sex using a specific orifice. I'm sorry, but to me womanhood is about far more than my sex organs. In fact, they have very little to do with it.

Quoteif you do not have a plan that will see you through to stealth and beyond...

Never wanted to be stealth. If it's what some people want, that's fine, but I can't see how hiding my past somehow makes me more of a woman. If people can't accept the present, that's their problem, not mine.

Ehh... I think I've said enough. There are plenty of other parts I took issue with (practically all of it), but they really weren't worth commenting on.

Quote from: Jenna Marie on July 12, 2014, 10:57:37 PM
FilaFord : Good grief, there are cis women who think playing with their own breasts is cool, wear 6" heels, or like to penetrate men. :) Also, "because it'll make you happy" is a GOOD reason to transition!

(Oh, and don't do it if you want to become a transsexual *or* if you want to be a woman? What does that leave for a trans woman - only transition if you wanted to be a man?!)

To be the devils advocate, I think she means that you should already regard yourself as a women, and are just seeking to change the outside to match what you are on the inside.

Edit: Opps, Carrie beat me too it lol :)

Quote from: Carrie Liz on July 12, 2014, 11:09:00 PM
Nah, what she's actually trying to say is that you should only transition if you ARE a woman, not because you want to "become" one. She talks about it in depth in the next chapter. Basically, her whole thesis is about how you have to have known you were really a woman from the age of 4-6 to be a "true" transsexual, and that if you're not a "true" transsexual you shouldn't transition at all.

Meh, whatever.  Labels are for food and medicine.

There are so many variations on how people are raised.  Some of us knew when we were younger but repressed it to fit the mold that we imagined our beloved parents expected of us.  Reading her words make it sound as if she can just define such a broad-spectrum of people into whatever her perception of the word is and I disagree with it.

Sorry, but playing with your breasts can be cool.  Ask the millions of natal women out there that love to grab their fun bags while they have sex.   I've had a couple of handfuls myself.

FilaFord : I'm glad things are going so well for you! Clearly you're well-adjusted and transition is working for you, no matter what someone like this says. :)

Carrie Liz : Ah-ha. Thanks for clarifying, but I suspect you know what I think of that sort of true transsexual BS. Not to mention that someone who's truly secure in her own decisions doesn't need to to put other people down to prove she's right.

Pikachu : Your last line made me giggle!

Quote from: Carrie Liz on July 12, 2014, 11:09:00 PM
Basically, her whole thesis is about how you have to have known you were really a woman from the age of 4-6 to be a "true" transsexual, and that if you're not a "true" transsexual you shouldn't transition at all. Again, it's just a bunch of "->-bleeped-<-r than thou" bulls*** where she's trying to say that she's more authentic and more female than everyone else.

Lol, "->-bleeped-<-r than thou" you just made my day Carrie!! :) So true, and something I see on the net a lot. Ironic that these "->-bleeped-<-r that thou" bitches turn it into some d**k measuring contest..lol. Just chill out and get your T and sanctimony levels checked asap! ;)

Quote from: Carrie Liz on July 12, 2014, 11:09:00 PM
Nah, what she's actually trying to say is that you should only transition if you ARE a woman, not because you want to "become" one. She talks about it in depth in the next chapter. Basically, her whole thesis is about how you have to have known you were really a woman from the age of 4-6 to be a "true" transsexual, and that if you're not a "true" transsexual you shouldn't transition at all. Again, it's just a bunch of "->-bleeped-<-r than thou" bulls*** where she's trying to say that she's more authentic and more female than everyone else because she's a WOMAN, not a tr***y.

Quote from: lemon_ice on July 12, 2014, 11:19:12 PM
Lol, "->-bleeped-<-r than thou" you just made my day Carrie!! :) So true, and something I see on the net a lot. Ironic that these "->-bleeped-<-r that thou" bitches turn it into some d**k measuring contest..lol. Just chill out and get your T and sanctimony levels checked asap! ;)

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rocketryforum.com%2Fimages%2Fsmilies%2Fsmiley-laugh-point-up-yellow.gif&hash=51384bf5657ecc0675b0e8cbc29aeba4fb664987)

These two quotes are loltastic. 

Thanks ladies, I always can use a good laugh :)

Quote from: lemon_ice on July 12, 2014, 11:19:12 PM
Lol, "->-bleeped-<-r than thou" you just made my day Carrie!! :) So true, and something I see on the net a lot. Ironic that these "->-bleeped-<-r that thou" bitches turn it into some d**k measuring contest..lol. Just chill out and get your T and sanctimony levels checked asap! ;)

Pre-transition: "My dick is 9 inches" "Well mine is 10!"
Post-transition: "My vagina is 8 inches deep" "Well mine is 12!"

Some of the "->-bleeped-<-r Than Thou"(here after refered to as "T3") seem to have an attitude than trans women have to meet some caricature of a 1950's housewife, never minding the fact that plenty of ciswomen wear jeans, cut their hair short, sleep with other women, and hell occasionally even cowboy up and grab a rifle and stack on a door with SWAT. how does that make them any less of a woman? And why would that principle not also apply to transwomen?

I personally don't see it as a case of transitioning to be a woman in my case; I'm transitioning to be myself, and that person is closer to the female end of the spectrum.

Quote from: Carrie Liz on July 12, 2014, 11:28:35 PM
Pre-transition: "My dick is 9 inches" "Well mine is 10!"
Post-transition: "My vagina is 8 inches deep" "Well mine is 12!"

Jeez, you gotta warn me! LOL

*wipes spewed sparkling water off monitor*

You know, back when I first started doing research on wanting to be a woman, being trans, before I came here that is, or even found a support group, I came across that TRASH of a wiki. I read through some of it, most I don't remember and have just read some of it again just to make sure that was indeed the thing I read years back, it is. I DO NOT agree with how it tries to talk us out of transitioning. I do NOT agree with how dark, bleak and while yes that can happen, I'd like to think not ALL of it would happen to someone and so, I'll add unrealistic* with a * there as it does happen, just I don't think all that bad stuff happens to one person, so I don't agree with how it portrays it so dark and negatively. I do NOT agree with how it tries to scare, and shame trans people out of being who they truly are and I SURE AS HELL don't agree with the TONE the person who typed it up or some of the things they said in it. Lastly, I DO NOT agree with some of the things that were listed at the end there below You Shouldn't Transition If... , I don't remember what I read that long ago, and I'm not going to re-read it but I know some of what it said there was just wrong and not right. Thus, if someone wanted to transition, they should even if it was listed in there.

Also, from the article

So, You Want to be a T-Girl

So you do all this and you are ready to transition, huh? Good god, you have not heard a word I have said! Listen to me now...

The last thing you should ever hope for is that your bell goes off.

this is part of that tone I was referring too but, on top of it all, the "bell" that this person keeps referring too, I am interpreting that as, a trans person realizing they want to be a woman or a man etc. but what the person who typed this up DOESN'T REALIZE is that a trans person whose already got those feelings of wanting to be a male or a female etc. has already HAD that bell go off. This article imo is wrong, pointless, discrimination against trans people and does more harm to us than good. Down with it I say. (Disclaimer, I've only read parts of it a long time ago and a little just now, but what I read and what I typed here is how I feel about it)