As a footnote to this (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,169499.0.html) post where I asked a number of women at work out for drinks at the end of a busy and stressy day...
I feel a bit bad because I deliberately didn't ask one of the guys, a friend of mine who I have often had a drink with after work. Us drinking together has happened less since I transitioned in large part due to him being very busy in his personal life, him attempting to cut back on his drinking, his dietary practices (part day fasting) and me not being at work on as many days as him. I feel there is a bit of gap between us now, not due to me being trans, but due to a male/female thing. He certainly has a one track mind when it comes to women, and while he isn't attracted to me (my boobs are too small for that anyway!) and I'm still attracted to women, I have come to feel his sexual banter to be a bit tiresome. I knew that if I invited him along for drinks with the women that his presence would change the dynamic of the get together and what I was hoping for out of the evening which was a bit of female bonding. So yeah, I didn't ask him.
Personally I was always devastated when I found out the women went off for a girls thing without asking me so I feel bad about doing that to him. I doubt he will be devastated if he hears of it but it'll be a confirmation that he and I are drifting apart. He has already said to me that as much as he likes me as Grace he misses my male persona. :(
Anyway, I understand now why women do have "girls only" things, it feels much more comfortable and the conversations are a lot less dominated by how the men steer the discussion in the direction of themselves and their interests. There is a lot more personal sharing and the like. I love it!
I should add that the kicker was, at the end of the evening everyone agreed it had been great and that we should do it more often. Given I organised it I felt pretty pleased with myself! ;D
Yes, It's a much different dynamic during "girls night out", isn't it. My wife has been part of a once-a-month, women-only dive bar crew for some time and I was recently included in this already LGBT-friendly group. I knew a few of them before I transitioned, and I must say that they are definitely more relaxed and open to me now. It is quite evident that most of them put on a slightly different face when in the presence of guys.
The mixed group dynamic is also much different when it's "guys from work" rather than "guys who are available". It's also fun to watch when the guys in question qualify as both.
One thing is for sure, though, the last thing girls want while letting off steam is a "bros before hoes" guy around. Odds are his type are half the reason we need to let off the steam in the first place.
Good for you :)
It's probably for the best you didn't invite him. He probably would've felt awkward and the girls would've probably felt weighed down by having to keep the conversations "guy friendly".
don't feel bad just enjoy you new life
I guess this a difficult one (I'm not there yet, so...) The idea that of "we stay the same, male or female" is difficult to agree with fully, in that there are pretty bleedin' obvious changes that have taken place. Emotionally I guess we're in a different place and we fit in differently in our environment. Sure, that central essence of who we are and our take on the world remains the same...but different.
So, yeah, not straightforward. Glad you had a great night out though. :)
A good friend of mine that has been out for 25 years told me something that I did not believe at the time but I've since come to realize that there is some truth to it.
She told me that at some point I would have to make up my mind, that it would be impossible to belong in both worlds, that unfortunately grabbing a pint with the boys and going to lunches with the girls are mutually exclusive activities. She also told me that the worst thing I could do was to not belong in either group. I'm still processing but as I get more accepted into the female culture and groups I see more of what you mentioned, the dynamics when there are no boys are totally different and I don't think that's something we can change.
I guess the bottom line is being a woman means sometimes we need to do things women do even when they are things that we aren't totally comfortable with or male culture would not encourage.
Quote from: antonia on July 18, 2014, 11:30:38 PM
She told me that at some point I would have to make up my mind, that it would be impossible to belong in both worlds, that unfortunately grabbing a pint with the boys and going to lunches with the girls are mutually exclusive activities. She also told me that the worst thing I could do was to not belong in either group. I'm still processing but as I get more accepted into the female culture and groups I see more of what you mentioned, the dynamics when there are no boys are totally different and I don't think that's something we can change.
I hope that's not true, but I'm beginning to see it myself.
I was really good 'mates' with a guy from work. We'd go for drinks after work and talk philosophy for hours. Lately though our drinks have been a lot less frequent and I find myself chatting with his partner more (she also works with us). I hope to bridge the gap, but that's seeming less likely as my transition progresses.
All that said, I am really enjoying the 'girls club.' The guys just tend to suck the energy out of the conversation.
Yes, I think I have to admit that is what is happening with me too... this guy and I could chat for ages about philosophical and nerdy stuff but the connection, while still there, seems weaker.
I've literally lost all my guy friends with the exception of a few neighbors. Sometimes one of my former guy friends will call, but usually only when they want something ie: advice on a computer or boat repair, or to borrow money(I've stopped this as I don't believe in paying for friendship). So now it's just me and the girls here though my neighbors and I aren't close. I live rurally so the process of establishing new close friendships is slow.
Allie :icon_flower:
Grace,
This topic has struck a chord with me too. Since becoming the real me slowly but surely over the last twenty years my few male compatriots have dwindled to zilch other than one fellow who lives on the other side of the state. I used to go on hunting trips with some fellows and enjoyed the bonding and a few drinks around the campfire at night, but eventually I found the conversations to be boring and of little interest to say nothing about the crowing about women and their body parts which became a huge turn off for me.
Most of the former guy stuff holds no allure for me anymore and I tend to enjoy my daily hour or two in a ladies coffee klatch at the local Starbucks where there is a variety of different topics discussed, mostly things that appeal to women. They do make catty comments about other women's appearance at times, but nothing misogynistic. They don't leer and drool openly over people's body parts and physical attributes and it has become a refreshing change to be accepted so openly into that group even as an androgynous male with obvious female attributes because they value someone who can be a good conversationalist on any subject and above all someone who can be a good listener, is emotionally connected and who shows empathy for others, over anything else.
I'd have to say this side of things has been a very interesting side of transtioning. I myself have always felt more comfortable in the company of girls/women but since coming out and living openly as a woman, one of the really big changes has been the fact that most of the women I know have quite quickly accepted me into the fold.
I have also made several new female friends, people who never knew me as a guy, and that has been particularly satisfying. I have never tried to hide my past, impossible given the number of people who know me, but there is a big difference in knowing I lived most of my life as a guy and having actually known my male persona.
Like others who have posted, what I love most is the level of intimacy that exists among women and at lunch now, I am mostly with a couple of female colleagues, one of whom is really becoming a very good friend.
With my old male friends, it is still mostly OK but I'd have to agree there is a probably a little more distance than before.They have been extraordinarily supportive and one at least is quite obviously fascinated by what I have done. I'm even thinking he likes me better as a woman than before... :) Most interesting though is how the relationships with their spouses have changed. While we always got on well, I would have to say we have gotten closer and I find myself having conversations at a level of intimacy we had never allowed ourselves previously.
I kind of agree that at some stage we have to decide what world we belong to and as someone who has spent most of her life with a very deep feeling of not belonging, it is a huge relief for me to discover that I may be putting that behind me at last. Having decided to live the rest of my life as the woman I always felt was there inside me, I have been really happy to discover how accepting most of the women I know have been. Definitely one of the most positive aspects of my transition!
Hugs
Donna
Quote from: Shantel on July 19, 2014, 11:06:42 AM
Grace,
This topic has struck a chord with me too. Since becoming the real me slowly but surely over the last twenty years my few male compatriots have dwindled to zilch other than one fellow who lives on the other side of the state. I used to go on hunting trips with some fellows and enjoyed the bonding and a few drinks around the campfire at night, but eventually I found the conversations to be boring and of little interest to say nothing about the crowing about women and their body parts which became a huge turn off for me.
Most of the former guy stuff holds no allure for me anymore and I tend to enjoy my daily hour or two in a ladies coffee klatch at the local Starbucks where there is a variety of different topics discussed, mostly things that appeal to women. They do make catty comments about other women's appearance at times, but nothing misogynistic. They don't leer and drool openly over people's body parts and physical attributes and it has become a refreshing change to be accepted so openly into that group even as an androgynous male with obvious female attributes because they value someone who can be a good conversationalist on any subject and above all someone who can be a good listener, is emotionally connected and who shows empathy for others, over anything else.
Auntie Shan, it's they, your former male compatriots that lost out. But I know what you mean. My former next door neighbor used to talk like that to other men and boys that used to come around many times within earshot of me and my ex SO, a pair of girls and his wife who would just shake her head. Either he didn't care we could hear him talk about our breasts and whatnot, or he just didn't give a crap. Either way I have no use for talk like that, so I disassociated myself from him.
I think what it is, is men want to feel comfortable to say what they want when conversing with each other, and with a woman around be she trans or cis they feel they have to watch their words, and that makes them feel uncomfortable. I think the same goes for us girls too. We like to be comfortable discussing more enlightened topics most men aren't comfortable with. A lot of which most men find boring. Just my $.02 though.
Allie :icon_flower:
Quote from: Donna E on July 19, 2014, 11:13:54 AM
I kind of agree that at some stage we have to decide what world we belong to and as someone who has spent most of her life with a very deep feeling of not belonging, it is a huge relief for me to discover that I may be putting that behind me at last. Having decided to live the rest of my life as the woman I always felt was there inside me, I have been really happy to discover how accepting most of the women I know have been. Definitely one of the most positive aspects of my transition!
Hugs
Donna
This pretty much describes for the most part how I'm feeling even though my circle of friends is small.
Where have you been Donna? I've missed you. I think the last time we conversed I was still uncomfortable posting photos. As you can see I've gotten over that. Seriously how have you been?
Allie :icon_flower:
Quote from: Allyda on July 19, 2014, 11:45:51 AM
This pretty much describes for the most part how I'm feeling even though my circle of friends is small.
Where have you been Donna? I've missed you. I think the last time we conversed I was still uncomfortable posting photos. As you can see I've gotten over that. Seriously how have you been?
Allie :icon_flower:
Hi Allyda,
It's very sweet of you to inquire and yes, it's great that you posted a photo. You look just a little sad but, while I understand all the reasons many people prefer not to post photos, these images bring the people here that much closer.
On my own side, things have been a bit complicated over the last few months as I struggled with the realization that no matter what I actually did and accomplished , I was going to loose my job at the end of July. I was really very down for a while but have recovered enough to finish up strongly. Among others, this means that I have just been very busy getting as much done as I can so that I leave as positive an impression as I can with as many people as I can. It was my way of making a statement.
The great thing is that it by doing this, I may have had more impact than I imagined initially, possibly even reopening some doors that seemed to be definitively closed. The future will tell! Meanwhile, if you have seen my other posts, next bg step is GRS, just over 4 weeks down the road!
Wishing you all the very best!
Bises
Donna
P.S. Grace, sorry for going off subject but I had to answer the question.
Depends on the people, not the gender. Not all guys are as you have described at all.
Quote from: jname on July 19, 2014, 01:07:11 PM
Depends on the people, not the gender. Not all guys are as you have described at all.
This is of course true in all cases, generalisations should never paint all with the same brush. That said, having lived on the guy side of things for over forty years I have been surprised, and dismayed, at the number of guys who are boob and sex obsessed.
Quote from: Donna E on July 19, 2014, 11:13:54 AM
I kind of agree that at some stage we have to decide what world we belong to and as someone who has spent most of her life with a very deep feeling of not belonging, it is a huge relief for me to discover that I may be putting that behind me at last. Having decided to live the rest of my life as the woman I always felt was there inside me, I have been really happy to discover how accepting most of the women I know have been. Definitely one of the most positive aspects of my transition!
I relate to this so much, Donna. In a way that acceptance was what I had hoped for without having to transition, and while I got some of it from women it was only partial and/or they thought I was gay...
I think there are very very few guys who would be disappointed at missing a girly night out. I know I always was, but then, there is a reason for that. The same reason I was always very jealous of anyone who was pregnant and none of the men I knew could relate to that.
TBH though, I have to say, I haven't found girly talk massively different, but then again, I don't have many friends and the ones I do have are so far from normal men that I would not use them as a barometer. I never ever have hung around with men-men, not ever in my life. I couldn't stand the sport talk and bravado. Sure its a little different, but not chalk and cheese. I certainly prefer it a whole lot, but I don't find conversations in girl only groups are massively different than they were when it was girl only and me-before. I bit more physically intimate in their detail, but that is about it.
Just plain socializing with men as a friend is hard for me. I have a few guy friends but most guys I know are rather withdrawn into their work or hobbies.
I've heard it said that women are less lonely in retirement cause they tend to have social circles outside work while men have them at the job. So when men retire, there is no one. I have no proof if this is the case or not but anecdotally it feels true in my life experience.
As for girl's time, I have noticed a delightful increase in the number of cupcakes I get to eat! Periods and pregnancy come up a lot. Hair removal has too which is cool cause I've got some expertise to share there. :D
When I've been caught in the middle of a girl fight though, I feel like I'm out of my weight class.
But, the bad times are exceptionally rare so no use dwelling!
It's almost like if we had been born Native American In one tribe when we were found out, we would be placed in a lodge and the lodge would be set on fire. We would have to pick up a clay basket or bow and arrow. Whatever we chose we would be accepted. Our women friends would be a lot closer and the other gender although staying friends would slowly drop from being close friends.
The more I am with women ,the closer I feel to them and of course my male friends would slowly drop me with doing things with them.
If I had be Sioux, my name would be changed to Women's Dress. I saw this in a movie.
Personally we would have been better off with being born with a vagina.
And then we would really know about having babies, breast feeding, being a mother, and having periods.
For us maybe one day medical science can implant a uterus, ovaries, and Fallopian tubes in us.
Sorry the last few lines I got off topic.
Misato:
Please continue to stay out of a fight between friends. As you can lose both.
Just a couple of cents.
A long time into "before" I had very few hand-picked male friends and lots of male acquaintances - mostly due to shared hobbies. Once You drop out of that particular hobby, as per rule You loose all the people associated with it. I never really tried to develop a close relationship with females, because when we tried and succeeded to build a sort of friend relationship, they always said things which worried me (like, me not being like other guys and feeling safe around me) and at the same time I always had to fight spontaneous urges downthere, which made me feel dirty.
Now, I have made a couple of very close, best friend relationships with women. Yet, I have been able to preserve the closest male friend I have ever had. And I intend to keep matters the way they are and not focus on genders - we are all human beings in the end and if You find a soulmate, then it does not really matter to which camp he or she belongs. Have to admit, that our friendship dynamics has changed dramatically and there are things he will never offer me to do anymore and treats me more delicately, yet annoyingly paternalising at times. Sometimes, we mock each other a bit, but now it is mostly gender based humour. In the end, I believe that there are many versions of frienship, and if people are willing to preserve a valuable relationship, then they can figure out the mode which suits to them, no matter what.
Quote from: ♡ Emily ♡ on July 20, 2014, 03:24:27 AM
And I intend to keep matters the way they are and not focus on genders - we are all human beings in the end...
Great point Emily!
And yes, I know what you mean by being a bit confused between wanting a platonic friendship with women put having desires get in the way.
Grace this brought up so many different thoughts.
Transitioning isn't just about the physical and emotional changes we go through but also the societal changes. To be happy women (or for my brothers, happy men) we need a societal base. Many of us struggled with that before transition and have to learn it during.
I reall a part of my second psychiatrist letter to my surgeon for GCS. " Cindy has adapted excellently to her life as a woman". What does that mean and why is it important?
I knew I was female at an early age, I'm becoming a hormonally and surgically assigned at a later part of life. It is important to my medical team to ensure I have not made a mistake, with the associated devastating effects to me. That I do 'normal' woman stuff is an indicator that I am happy and accepted, that men ignore me and women include me in parts of their lives is an indicator of this.
I still enjoy my male friends, but I enjoy them and they enjoy my interactions as a woman interested in certain topics. I enjoy and am accepted by my female friends as a fellow woman, and that is very special.
This is the core for me of being post-transition.
Oh and has nothing to do with sexuality.
Just my thoughts
Quote from: janetcgtv on July 19, 2014, 09:58:48 PM
Misato:
Please continue to stay out of a fight between friends. As you can lose both.
Oh I'm very aware of that! Still, thanks for the reminder.
You know I really hadn't lost any of my male friends so far, but something weird has happened they kinda act strangely protective over me. They still ask me for advice on things I know more than them on so they respect my mind, but there is now a vibe of "you are delicate, if anyone messes with you they have to deal with us".
I can't complain I knew things were going to change as as I keep going I bet they will change even more, so long as I don't lose any more friends male or female I will be pretty happy.
Quote from: Hikari on July 20, 2014, 07:34:25 AM
They still ask me for advice on things I know more than them on so they respect my mind, but there is now a vibe of "you are delicate, if anyone messes with you they have to deal with us".
Oh yes, very much this. Plus, they start asking for advice from "a female perspective", lol. Still, now they will interrupt me while I am talking with no issues and keep doing so until I explode :D.
And yes, apparently, I am not an adult person who can act adequately anymore :D - last bit from a phone conversation two days ago.
He: "You are doing WHAT???"
Me: "Well, as I said - talking to You while skating"
He: "Are You wearing a headset? No? Don't You know it is not safe? You might trip and brake something"
Me: "I'm multi-tasking, dammit!"
He: " Ah (confused), ok...".
Quote from: Ms Grace on July 20, 2014, 03:45:15 AM
Great point Emily!
And yes, I know what you mean by being a bit confused between wanting a platonic friendship with women put having desires get in the way.
I was discussing this thread with my wife at lunch today and one of the things that came up was the close friendships I have developed with two other women over the last few months, one of whom my wife already knows and also likes, and the other who she will meet shortly.
The point I raised is that, with a women, it is possible to have a relationship where you can openly talk about your feelings, the affection and even love you feel for her, without there being any hidden agenda (at least for me.. :)) .I have had very close male friendships too but this is a step too far for all but one guy I have known all my life and, in his case, there was a hidden agenda which eventually killed our relationship.
Donna
He probably wouldn't have dug it anyway. When I went to a therapist and said I had this huge self hate and that I could not have male friendships. (I was always on the outside looking in it seemed) she explained that I communicate like awoman and that guys can't communicate that closely and they are too shallow for real conversation, I remember on in particular saying "I dont know you that well, why are you telling me this?" lol
Quote from: antonia on July 18, 2014, 11:30:38 PM
A good friend of mine that has been out for 25 years told me something that I did not believe at the time but I've since come to realize that there is some truth to it.
She told me that at some point I would have to make up my mind, that it would be impossible to belong in both worlds, that unfortunately grabbing a pint with the boys and going to lunches with the girls are mutually exclusive activities. She also told me that the worst thing I could do was to not belong in either group. I'm still processing but as I get more accepted into the female culture and groups I see more of what you mentioned, the dynamics when there are no boys are totally different and I don't think that's something we can change.
I guess the bottom line is being a woman means sometimes we need to do things women do even when they are things that we aren't totally comfortable with or male culture would not encourage.
I think Your friend is very reasonable and wise person and her statements are based on experience. The only thing I would disagree is that last option of not really belonging to any of the groups. IMO, that could be very unique experience, based on specific lifestyle, but, of course, it would have a lot of limitations too. Still, might be worth trying...
Quote from: ♡ Emily ♡ on July 20, 2014, 02:43:04 PM
I think Your friend is very reasonable and wise person and her statements are based on experience. The only thing I would disagree is that last option of not really belonging to any of the groups. IMO, that could be very unique experience, based on specific lifestyle, but, of course, it would have a lot of limitations too. Still, might be worth trying...
Binary folks are forever trying to demystify the non-binary mystiques of those free spirits, myself included, with some oversimplified dismissive comment because they find us somehow threatening. If the lady has been out for 25 years, of course she has a huge investment in herself as a woman and it's no wonder that she would make that statement. One must closely consider the base motives behind such comments, they are not always couched in wisdom but rather in willful disregard for the validity of non-binary types living in her midst. I wouldn't hold it against her, but it's always good to consider the source and understand the motives that drive it.
The lady that told me this has been married for 20 years and enjoys an "upper class" lifestyle, I think she would be horrified by the prospect of living in the "grey zone" but there is still a point there.
General society isn't yet ready to fully accept non binary people and living "in between" can be a very lonely existence at times, I admire girls that continue to be active members of the community after transitioning but at the same time I now realize that for me to be fully accepted into female circles I will have to leave some things behind.
I wish the world was a different place but realistically I think we have to make some hard choices, I'll never hide my past or deny it but at the same time I'm not going to bring it up in a conversation. On the other hand I've met girls that have transitioned and are vocal activists, unfortunately some of them seem to fall into a place where all they can talk about is trans issues and I don't think that's a healthy place either.
Quote from: Shantel on July 20, 2014, 07:30:39 PM
Binary folks are forever trying to demystify the non-binary mystiques of those free spirits, myself included, with some oversimplified dismissive comment because they find us somehow threatening. If the lady has been out for 25 years, of course she has a huge investment in herself as a woman and it's no wonder that she would make that statement. One must closely consider the base motives behind such comments, they are not always couched in wisdom but rather in willful disregard for the validity of non-binary types living in her midst. I wouldn't hold it against her, but it's always good to consider the source and understand the motives that drive it.
Quote from: antonia on July 21, 2014, 08:30:52 AM
The lady that told me this has been married for 20 years and enjoys an "upper class" lifestyle, I think she would be horrified by the prospect of living in the "grey zone" but there is still a point there.
If the lady is transgendered then she extremely fortunate because her circumstances are rare for any trans woman. 99% who think they will be able to live totally stealth like any cis women are unfortunately just a bit delusional, there are always cues that cis women especially pick up on regarding a trans woman living stealth, plus it's not as if their former life is ever really hidden from inquisitive types, it's not possible.
Quote from: antonia on July 21, 2014, 08:30:52 AM
General society isn't yet ready to fully accept non binary people and living "in between" can be a very lonely existence at times,
My observation after 20 years on HRT, an orchiectomy and living androgynously and connected to some of the most stunningly attractive and convincing MtF members of the transgender community I can attest to the fact that general society isn't for the most part ready or even willing to fully accept any of us. Some may say otherwise to your face but in their hearts they know they are lying through their teeth to be nice and when they do find out it isn't pleasant.
Quote from: antonia on July 21, 2014, 08:30:52 AM
I admire girls that continue to be active members of the community after transitioning but at the same time I now realize that for me to be fully accepted into female circles I will have to leave some things behind.
I wish the world was a different place but realistically I think we have to make some hard choices, I'll never hide my past or deny it but at the same time I'm not going to bring it up in a conversation. On the other hand I've met girls that have transitioned and are vocal activists, unfortunately some of them seem to fall into a place where all they can talk about is trans issues and I don't think that's a healthy place either.
I don't wish to dissuade anyone from their chosen course in how they wish to deal with their own lives as transgendered people, all I can say is good luck! I do agree with you on the trans activists, bless them for their efforts, but I think living one's life quietly is the better way to go, and that's why Susan's has so many old timers here as it gives us all a safe place to discuss things that we wouldn't in the company of everyday cis society.
I've been pleasantly surprised that I can be just as at home with trans and cis women. Most of my real life social trans contact has come via Susan's whereas the cis is just a continuation.
Surprisingly to me anyways I haven't had that much of a problem living among, and socializing with cis women many of whom don't know my history. I don't know if it's how I present myself or my 'devil may care' attitude but especially here more lately I'm treated just like one of the girls. Oh I've no doubt I give off signs as we all do, and some of who I associate with know my full story. It hasn't always been this way for me and I attribute a lot of my acceptance to hrt softening my face up a bit. Or maybe it's that I wear my hair down more partially hiding my scars most of the time unless I'm working.
I'm not trying to live stealth or anything. I'm very proud of who I've become and what I had to overcome to get to where I am now. Nor do I plan to leave this community after my SRS (sorry, y'all have to put up with me, lol!) but I seem so far anyway to be accepted by both cis women, and even the cis men who live here as just the woman who lives alone down the street.
Edit: I am currently looking to meet more Transwomen here in West Central Florida, to maybe if it works out form a group. Currently there's no support for us in less than 2 hours in any direction. So if you live in West Central Florida and are interested feel free to pm me.
Allie :icon_flower:
Quote from: Ms Grace on July 21, 2014, 07:13:36 PM
I've been pleasantly surprised that I can be just as at home with trans and cis women. Most of my real life social trans contact has come via Susan's whereas the cis is just a continuation.
Well I am enjoying that myself, but the point is that it's not important to self identify and any particular gender to be well received, and you they know we're trans and wouldn't embarrass us or themselves by any derogatory remarks in front of us, but they do say things privately behind our backs.
When I transitioned (1974) I moved directly into stealth and 'a woman's life'. I had very few male friends, almost none outside of work, and moving in women's circles was a great help in my growing up as a person.
I learned early on that there are times when women exclude the company of men and times when men don't really want women around. There is a far different dynamic in a mixed group from that of a same-sex group and it is good to be sensitive to the desires of the group. You can usually pick up on the sense of when the opposite sex are not desired and, if not, it is good to ask the other women.
You know, I had a wonderful moment when it was clear to me I was now socially allocated to the girls chatting inside part of the party whilst the guys sat around outside. Heaven. I don't think I could put up with another minute of nodding through braggy discussions about bikes, surfing and sport. I was finally free!
As a young kid I much preferred hanging around my aunts and the women than my uncles and the guys. Pretty much I'd always end up in the kitchen helping out than blobbed out in the lounge room or the back yard.
Quote from: Ms Grace on July 28, 2014, 04:42:35 AM
As a young kid I much preferred hanging around my aunts and the women than my uncles and the guys. Pretty much I'd always end up in the kitchen helping out than blobbed out in the lounge room or the back yard.
Hahah!
Well, all the men in my early childhood were all donkey rear ends... I never wanted to be like them, and I'd like to think I avoided that.
The funny thing was, I wanted to help in the kitchen, but got kicked out - it wasn't manly or something (never mind the number great chefs who are men...). Gender stereotype imprinting anyone?
These days, in mixed gender company I get dragged off with the guys and I play my part well...
Quote from: Ms Grace on July 18, 2014, 06:33:02 PM
Anyway, I understand now why women do have "girls only" things, it feels much more comfortable and the conversations are a lot less dominated by how the men steer the discussion in the direction of themselves and their interests.
I don't know how true that is. I know a few what will interrupt conversations and talk about what they want to talk about and what they are interested in.
When I make my upcoming move back home next year after I've healed from my SRS in December, I don't plan to openly volunteer my past to my new neighbors. But if I'm asked I won't have a problem telling my story. And I do plan to get involved in some sort of group for transgender individuals if one exists where I buy my next home. It would be really nice to have a few TG girlfriends and even a TG gentleman friend or two that can relate to where I've been. Which, is something at the moment I don't have where I currently live.
Allie :icon_flower:
most guys will understand that it was a girl only thing, I bet too that most guys would love to have gone, well until they got bored.
With my friends, twice a month of a sunday we have 4 rules where we have to get together, no kids for those who have them, no boys, no excuses & no cameras (most of us studied photography) for not being there.
We even did it in Thailand while over there for a friends wedding, the Sunday after the wedding we all went off, left the boys & kids and found a bar, had lunch and just had a great time.
The bottles flow and nothing is off topic.
Say Sydney Girls... we should do a girls only high tea.
My group of friends is mostly women. I'm not too fond of hanging out with guys unless I know them well, like my best friend. I honestly don't feel safe around most men at least around here. It's harder to express certain things to with guys in general. I've always been the type to hang out with the gals more than the guys.
Same here. I do have some artsy male friends- non threatening, open minded... that's okay. But I do prefer girls for socializing.
Quote from: Emmaline on July 30, 2014, 04:54:38 AM
Say Sydney Girls... we should do a girls only high tea.
Sounds like a good idea......!