redacted
Ashley, I know where you are coming from. It's like you come out with it and then you immediately kind of have confessor's remorse or something. "Should I have done that, what will our future be like, etc." I don't know, in my case I did it immediately after we split up, we're a lot closer now than we ever have been. There's definitely people who make it work here on Susan's. We've seen many examples of working through the difficulties and really making it work. It's not easy, but it can be done.
I think the feeling of not being deceitful and feeling like you are being honest with your spouse no matter what the consequences would outweigh keeping everything status quo. It might not feel like that now, but give it time. Just be honest and don't rush anything. It will take time to work out how you both feel and where your relationship is headed. Good luck :) Meghan
I don't know how long you have been married, but it is good that you told her. It frees you up and she can now play on a level field. My main suggestion, even if she decides to leave, is patience with your transtition. She has to get on board and there has to be a lot of education on her part and yours. Your life with her will now not be the same, eventhough you feel like the same person. She doesn't see it that way. You have a long road ahead of you and a lot of changes in your relationship. It can work out, but most don't. Think about being friends first and that will help. She can't change her orientation, like you can't change your trans ism. I made that word up.
Sheila
Yay! Congrats!
A few months ago I told my girlfriend (of six+ years). So I understand exactly how you feel. But it's an important step and I learned that I couldn't move on or feel better about myself if I didn't. I can only assume it was the same for you.
It's for the best! ^_^
~ Melissa
Hi Ashley,
You did the right thing even though you may have plenty of moments in the future where you question the wisdom of it [there should be a 'groan' emoticon].
It's better to be open as early as is possible. The both of you have a learning curve ahead of you and it would not have been good if you started out yourself and got too far ahead of her. She might have felt abandoned.
I hope it goes well for you. I'm not trying to frighten you, but to remind you that it could be a little tough now and then.
Rebis
well good luck with everything i just told my family a couple weeks ago.my wife has always known that i dressed up but now that i told her that i want to all the way and be a girl she told me she dont want a girl friend but we can be friends and we have been together for ten years but we are going to get a Divorce.but i hope the best for you and your family
gween
Ashley, I have heard that third of those who transition are lesbian, third are heterosexual and third become asexual. I don't know if that is true or not, but there seems to be some validity about it, just by looking at some of the post op here on susan. You are going to change physically and mentally, once you start on hormones. For us who have wanted this all our lives we are very happy with the change, but for those who are used to who we once were, they may not like it. I have been married for 38 years and my relationship has changed quite a bit. We are still married and love each other as very close friends but the intimacy is gone. She is not lesbian and I feel like I am and I'm in an asexual relationship. To me that is better than going out and being alone. Maybe I'm wrong, but that is how I feel. Just take it slow and easy, there will be times you just want to push ahead a lot faster. Keep in touch.
Sheila
Hello, Ashley....
Congrats on sharing this very important part of yourself with your lover!
You, like I and others will forever question the wisdom of coming out to your spouse. If you are like us (we have a marriage that goes back 30 years), you will probably want to transition, so that you will be comfortable in your own skin. The fact that your orientation is lesbian is helpful, if your wife is comfortable being in a same-gender marriage. Many wives find being in a same-gender relationship as unworkable, they are so very heterosexual. The fact that she is trying to find ways to keep you together is very promising though. (Willing to relocate to San Francisco? Wow!)
One thing I don't know is, have you transitioned at all, or do you plan to? If so, and I suspect you will sooner or later, it should be discussed thoroughly with her. I mean you should learn, and discuss this in minute detail. Transitioning is very stressful for both partners.....everything is new and exciting for you.....everything is new and scary for her. You have to hold on to each other throughout this time, and be aware that it can often be too much stress, and lead to a split.
After transitioning long enough, with or without grs, you will find that your sexual arousal and ultimate orgasm will be nothing like a male orgasm. Your orgasm will be female, and she will either be comfortable with this, or not. If you are lucky, she will like it better than the way it was. I hope you and she are in fact that lucky.
wishing you both the best,
Lucky Bev
Hi Ashley,
I am one of them there rare cases. My wife fully embraces it and we are closer. It's kind of a damn if you do and damn if you don't situations. If you tell her you risk losing her, but if you try to hide it from her you put a strain on your relationship and still risk losing. I say better to be happy then unhappy really. The reason we make it work is for a vasriety of reasons. The first big one is I allow her to be a part of my decisions and help me along. The other reason is we avoid labels. We are a married couple who love each other greatly, more than words can say. Sure we are both woman but do we need to remind ourselves everyday that we are same sex couple or lesbians. NO. If you harp on labels too much it will harm everything more than you think it will. It's just a messy web not worth being tangled into. Good luck to you,
Kim :angel:
Quote from: Ashley Michelle on July 29, 2007, 02:48:39 PM
we've been married 23 years, so we do have quite a lot invested in our lives together. i dont think she's leaving, i just dont want to cause her any hurt.
to be honest, i'm not sure how much the fact that i'm trans bothers her. she offered to move to san francisco, not entirely in jest; as well as asking me if i would be comfortable just dressing around the house. we talked a lot about my childhood and i told her how babies are 'engendered' in utero, and that my mother's amniocentesis reflected that i was a girl; as well as other signs that pointed towards who i am.
she also asked me if i liked men, and was i think relieved to learn that i am lesbian <lol>
i'm going to let it settle for a while, and answer any questions she has, and just try to be as "normal" around the house as possible; i just want to show her that i'm the same person she fell in love with.
we'll just see how it goes, i guess. i've waited this long, i'm in no hurry at this point.
thanks all
ashley
Ashley, I'll be blunt......Married for 23 years!!!! it's a long time not to confide in a partner of your intentions.......
I'll never get my head round this topic and the way people come out years later to a poor unsuspecting partner who is probably so unaware of the situation they fall into a state of devistation.....
Is it a form of mid life crisis? is it something made from a recent decision? I'll never truly understand this topic..
Quote from: Berliegh on July 31, 2007, 04:55:38 AM
Ashley, I'll be blunt......Married for 23 years!!!! it's a long time not to confide in a partner of your intentions.......
I'll never get my head round this topic and the way people come out years later to a poor unsuspecting partner who is probably so unaware of the situation they fall into a state of devistation.....
Is it a form of mid life crisis? is it something made from a recent decision? I'll never truly understand this topic..
You know, I have wondered the same thing. I am one of those "late bloomers" who, at age 50, finally gave free reign to who I was.
I have wondered, at various times, if this was caused by:
- stress at work
- mid-life crisis
- some kind of sexual thing
- a mental "hiccup"
- if I have always been this way but never had a chance to truly explore this part of me
- loneliness
- something else unknown at this time
I have explored all the above reasons, and still not sure "why now?"
I look back on things that have happened in my life, and see signs that I have always been this way to some extent or another, but what caused the dam to burst and my femme side to come flying out with such enthusiasm? Two years ago I would have never dreamed of shaving my legs...9 months later, that's exactly what I did.
I wonder if these feelings will go away as quickly as they came. Will I look back on the past year and wonder what the heck happened to me, or will I look back on the past year and celebrate the radical changes I made to become who I truly am? I admit to worrying about it sometimes. But for now, it makes me happy. It makes me feel "right". It makes me feel free. And if there is something wrong with that, too dang bad.
......Laurry
Added: I am not married, nor was I in a relationship when I began this stage of my journey. While my friends and co-workers may wonder what has happened, (those I haven't yet told), there is no one who's life would be turned upside-down by this. I can't speak for others, but if they are as confused as to why it happened when it did as I am, it can only be much more confusing when there is a long-term SO involved.
Ashley,
I do hope that she stays just as supportive as she seems now.
To encourage this, I recommend getting raspberry flavoured lipgloss. Sophie has some of this and it never seems to stay on her long when I'm around... The lipgloss is magic and makes all hurts better and it's really yummy!
>.>
<.<
^_^;;;
Okay, silliness over (I still recommend the lipgloss... so good... 3 more sleeps then I can make her put it on...), I'm really glad you have her support! I hope everything goes well for you two and she can understand that you haven't really changed.
Lots of love and attention for her, I think (and get the lipgloss) might help to show her that you're not going to leave her or run off after some man. 20+ years is a long time. You build a routine around the person you're with. Now you need to add things to that routine. (one of those things should definitely be raspberry lipgloss)
Enjoy who you are, but make sure she knows that you enjoy who she is. (By getting lipgloss she can enjoy.)
Tay
Subliminal messages brought to you by sleep-deprivation, hunger and the fact that Tay really likes Sophie's raspberry lipgloss.
Quote from: Ashley Michelle on July 29, 2007, 02:48:39 PM
i just want to show her that i'm the same person she fell in love with.
It's not always that easy for a spouse. You... we... apparently *weren't* the same person our spouses fell in love with. They have a certain image of who you are, and expectations based on that. Take that illusion away, and they start wondering,
"what ELSE did I miss?"And it might be different if you're a lesbian, but my wife is having a REALLY hard time now going back over the years, realizing that the validation she *thought* she'd received wasn't quite what it appeared to be. Telling her that I cried half the time after having sex (rare as it was) was probably something I should have kept to myself.
Quote from: Berliegh
Is it a form of mid life crisis? is it something made from a recent decision? I'll never truly understand this topic..
Of course not. GID isn't a mid-life crisis, though I realize many critics will say that.
You're young, naive, in love, and in my day there just didn't seem to be any hope for ever being a girl. Sure, the GID was there as strong as ever, but there was nothing I could DO about it. So you make do. Try to have some sort of life. And if you're young and stupid and completely naive sexually like I was, you mistake desperately wanting a (platonic) girlfriend for WANTING her sexually. You get married, and now have a live-in galpal to share with. Only she wants... you know... sex. From a guy. And you find out (surprise!) you hate being wanted for being a guy, and performing as one. You try everything to work around it... but in the end, you just can't get around the facts. You're not a heterosexual married couple, you're two girl roommates sharing a life together.
And she ends up wanting to run you over with a bulldozer for cheating her out of the very same life YOU missed out on.
~Kate~
Quote from: Ashley Michelle on July 31, 2007, 02:04:08 PM
-- i want her -- but not as a guy. if that makes sense at all. :P
Ashley.....
make sense?? Of course it makes sense. It makes sense to two women who's orientation is toward other women, and certainly prefer each other over men. We are in a wonderful position, Ashley. We have life partners who are soul mates. No lesbian dating on and off, searching for the right woman, no long-term relationships that often fall to pieces after a few years, only to start the search all over again. Our search was over, decades ago!
We're blessed!
Bev
Posted on: July 31, 2007, 02:23:34 PM
Quote from: Tay on July 31, 2007, 12:19:40 PM
Subliminal messages brought to you by sleep-deprivation, hunger and the fact that Tay really likes Sophie's raspberry lipgloss.
Lipgloss.....*yawn*.....*stretch*......must find rasberry lipgloss..................
:icon_confused2: What? Where the hell did that notion come from??
Bev
Kate's analogy certainly makes more sense to me now..
Quote from: Berliegh on July 31, 2007, 04:55:38 AM
Ashley, I'll be blunt......Married for 23 years!!!! it's a long time not to confide in a partner of your intentions.......
I'll never get my head round this topic and the way people come out years later to a poor unsuspecting partner who is probably so unaware of the situation they fall into a state of devistation.....
Is it a form of mid life crisis? is it something made from a recent decision? I'll never truly understand this topic..
You sure came up with a lot of assumptions in that post. Blunt? Is that a nice way of saying "I am rude and would like to disguise it with a clever word"? WhutEvuuuur ::)
Ashley it took a lot of courage to do that. It doesnt matter how long you waited, there is no fixed time schedule or an age when you HAVE to do this. Everybody is different and has different life experiences that sets their own personal time table for things. At least you are on the path to self discovery. Sounds like your wife is overly accepting and understanding. This may make ya'll closer you know?
Take it slow and easy and talk to her. Let her know what is going on and listen to her. Don't just hear her, listen intently to her words. She will let you know what she is thinking. Take care and good luck.
Congrats. You did the good and right thing telling her. I have yet to come out to my family.
Linda Ann ;)
Quote from: Kate on July 31, 2007, 01:57:59 PM
Quote from: Ashley Michelle on July 29, 2007, 02:48:39 PM
i just want to show her that i'm the same person she fell in love with.
It's not always that easy for a spouse. You... we... apparently *weren't* the same person our spouses fell in love with. They have a certain image of who you are, and expectations based on that. Take that illusion away, and they start wondering, "what ELSE did I miss?"
And it might be different if you're a lesbian, but my wife is having a REALLY hard time now going back over the years, realizing that the validation she *thought* she'd received wasn't quite what it appeared to be. Telling her that I cried half the time after having sex (rare as it was) was probably something I should have kept to myself.
Quote from: Berliegh
Is it a form of mid life crisis? is it something made from a recent decision? I'll never truly understand this topic..
Of course not. GID isn't a mid-life crisis, though I realize many critics will say that.
You're young, naive, in love, and in my day there just didn't seem to be any hope for ever being a girl. Sure, the GID was there as strong as ever, but there was nothing I could DO about it. So you make do. Try to have some sort of life. And if you're young and stupid and completely naive sexually like I was, you mistake desperately wanting a (platonic) girlfriend for WANTING her sexually. You get married, and now have a live-in galpal to share with. Only she wants... you know... sex. From a guy. And you find out (surprise!) you hate being wanted for being a guy, and performing as one. You try everything to work around it... but in the end, you just can't get around the facts. You're not a heterosexual married couple, you're two girl roommates sharing a life together.
And she ends up wanting to run you over with a bulldozer for cheating her out of the very same life YOU missed out on.
~Kate~
You know some of this sounds like my life. Even when I was crazy in love, it was always much more of a best buddy thing. It was two guys who were intimate, who did love each other very much - but it was so much more like this powerful bond, like 2 two guys who had been through a war together.
Quote from: Berliegh on July 31, 2007, 04:55:38 AM
Ashley, I'll be blunt......Married for 23 years!!!! it's a long time not to confide in a partner of your intentions.......
I'll never get my head round this topic and the way people come out years later to a poor unsuspecting partner who is probably so unaware of the situation they fall into a state of devistation.....
Is it a form of mid life crisis? is it something made from a recent decision? I'll never truly understand this topic..
Berleigh, it's true that the best course of action is to tell a prospective partner that you are trans, but in real life it doesn't always happen. I was "fighting against" my desire to be a woman for years and, I guess, getting married was all part of the grand act that I put on from about the age of seventeen trying to prove to myself and everyone else that I was a man. Having been taunted and bullied at school because of my feminine behaviour I overcompensated on leaving school by trying to be the most macho man in town. When I met my present wife I was hardly likely to say something like "Oh by the way, I know I'm a rugged strong looking man in a very physically demanding male occupation but actually I've always wanted to be a girl and I've got some very nice clothes and jewellery hidden away that you might like me to put on".....Hmmm??? I don't think so.
So you keep up the deception and get married and, if you are in a nice relationship and everything is going well, you find that life as a man's not that bad and wonder why you still have this nagging desire to be able to live as a woman. And life goes by and you are getting older and one day you wake up and realise that unless you do something about it soon it will be too late. Gender dysphoria increases with age you see and before long the nagging desire becomes an obsession - like Louise has been imprisoned all her life and is determined to break down every wall until she's free.
At that point I told my wife and everything that Ashley Michelle went through after coming out to her wife happened to me. Except that in my case my wife was initially understanding but now wants to blot the whole thing out and for us to carry on as if I'd never told her. However, that's my problem to deal with and I am very pleased for Ashley Michelle that she is getting a better reaction from her wife and wish her good luck for the future.
(Oh and Berleigh, so nice to see your 1975 picture - it seems you've always had a pretty face, you lucky girl!)
Louise
Ashley,
I am glad you had the courage to tell her. I appreciate you sharing your story. I will share a little of how much I kept from my wife.
It took a week for me to tell her. I set-up an appointment with my wife and then had to remind her that we had an appointment.
I was hoping maybe I could get it back into the box and I would not have to tell her. I knew I had a whole bunch of gender issues but I was already in love with my wife before I knew that TS existed.
I loved her so much and always tried to please her that she loved me too. I had self-medicated three different times in my marriage and seem to be able to avoid detection by my wife. The first two were failures.
I was crystal clear when I told her. I told her I was TG and it frequently gets worse as you get older. I started giving her examples of why she could not touch me in certain places and why I did certain things and why I was beaten and abused as a child.
I expected her to divorce me on the spot. I never even told her about self medication. After talking to me for thirty minutes she said, "When I married you I knew you would never cheat on me." I never asked her what that meant. I was hoping it meant I was loyal.
She said not one word after our discussion for one week. I really wanted to talk about this stuff with her. I thought maybe she did not know what TG meant? Then after one week she blasted me. Every single time she had an opportunity she blasted me. In front of the children. At night. In the morning. If she passed me in the hall. Anytime she could get an opportunity. She was not interested in anything I had to say about the subject of TG. She stopped calling me names after three months and she took the children on vacation for two weeks starting last week. I told her in March. She has absolutely no interest in talking about it.
She is absolutely correct. If she stays with me a few more months we will be married 25 years. She does not like lesbians and will not face me in bed.
If I could roll the clock back to March I would tell her again 100 times out of 100 times.
I don't mind her being angry at me but it would be nice to talk. We actually are pretty nice to each other. We no longer kiss or anything but we are pretty nice to each other. She is my best friend and I would probably still rank a good friend to her. She wrote a list of the top 10 things that she was thankful to have. I ranked eight behind a nice lawn and landscaping. (I hope she did not list them in order of importance.)
I have had one thirty minute conversation with a live person on the subject in 52 years. I have great shame, guilt and denial on this subject.
My wife still loves me but is fuming and angry at me. I do not think the meds have done much for my physical appearance and that is why I can avoid detection.
I am glad your wife is talking to you. Some significant others come to this site and find it useful.
W
I think it's good that you told her. I really didn't tell my wife, she started suggesting stuff to do in the bedroom and i told her that i could do more then what she wanted... not a very direct method. I don't know what I would have told my wife if I had tried to tell her at all.
~Vanessa
Posted on: August 01, 2007, 01:07:59 PM
I think it's good that you told her. I really didn't tell my wife, she started suggesting stuff to do in the bedroom and i told her that i could do more then what she wanted... not a very direct method. I don't know what I would have told my wife if I had tried to tell her at all.
~Vanessa
Quote from: Sheila on July 29, 2007, 04:52:53 PM
Ashley, I have heard that third of those who transition are lesbian, third are heterosexual and third become asexual. I don't know if that is true or not, but there seems to be some validity about it, just by looking at some of the post op here on susan. You are going to change physically and mentally, once you start on hormones. For us who have wanted this all our lives we are very happy with the change, but for those who are used to who we once were, they may not like it. I have been married for 38 years and my relationship has changed quite a bit. We are still married and love each other as very close friends but the intimacy is gone. She is not lesbian and I feel like I am and I'm in an asexual relationship. To me that is better than going out and being alone. Maybe I'm wrong, but that is how I feel. Just take it slow and easy, there will be times you just want to push ahead a lot faster. Keep in touch.
Sheila
Shelia's numbers are fairly accurate. There is also the possibility of being bi. We had about a quarter of each category when bi was added.
.............................
Bev said, "After transitioning long enough, with or without grs, you will find that your sexual arousal and ultimate orgasm will be nothing like a male orgasm. Your orgasm will be female, and she will either be comfortable with this, or not."
Bev is this something that can be discussed? Are you referring to the fact that it takes longer?
Quote from: Wendy on August 01, 2007, 12:41:17 PM
She said not one word after our discussion for one week. I really wanted to talk about this stuff with her. I thought maybe she did not know what TG meant? Then after one week she blasted me. Every single time she had an opportunity she blasted me. In front of the children. At night. In the morning. If she passed me in the hall. Anytime she could get an opportunity. She was not interested in anything I had to say about the subject of TG. She stopped calling me names after three months and she took the children on vacation for two weeks starting last week. I told her in March. She has absolutely no interest in talking about it.
I don't mind her being angry at me but it would be nice to talk. We actually are pretty nice to each other. We no longer kiss or anything but we are pretty nice to each other. She is my best friend and I would probably still rank a good friend to her.
Wendy, As with Asley Michelle's story, almost everything you are experiencing is happening to me too. But I keep saying to myself "I wish I'd never told her" simply because of the hurt I've caused her and the damage it's doing to our relationship. I'm sure there must be many others in our situation.
I hope you will find a way to resolve things.
Best wishes, Louise
Quote from: Wendy on August 01, 2007, 02:32:28 PM
Bev said, "After transitioning long enough, with or without grs, you will find that your sexual arousal and ultimate orgasm will be nothing like a male orgasm. Your orgasm will be female, and she will either be comfortable with this, or not."
Bev is this something that can be discussed? Are you referring to the fact that it takes longer?
No....it's not that it takes longer. It is just totally different. However, this subject is probably better suited to the 'sexuality' forum. Let me know if you take it there?
Bev
Quote from: louise000 on August 01, 2007, 03:31:14 PM
But I keep saying to myself "I wish I'd never told her" simply because of the hurt I've caused her and the damage it's doing to our relationship.
But would that alternative really have been any better, long term? The way I see it, two things are required for the silence option to work. First, you must keep in the closet indefinitely -- that is, live as you are, do not transition, be sure not to get caught. Second, you must also be able to not feel any significant guilt over living in that kind of a lie. If neither of these is not possible, you will eventually get to the point where the relationship has a major crisis over it anyway, and that crisis is likely to be even worse than what you experienced.
Oh, one more thing. You really shouldn't feel guilt over being TG, any more than over discovering a purely physical birth defect. How much, and how soon, would you tell your wife about that kind of an issue?
Hope it all works out,
Nfr
Quote from: louise000 on August 01, 2007, 03:31:14 PM
Wendy, As with Asley Michelle's story, almost everything you are experiencing is happening to me too. But I keep saying to myself "I wish I'd never told her" simply because of the hurt I've caused her and the damage it's doing to our relationship...
I understand those feelings all too well, BUT...
I think a spouse deserves to know. She or he needs to know because:
1) It affects all aspects of a relationship, even if you NEVER tell her/him... it's STILL there, gnawing away at everything. So often a wife will know something is wrong, but not knowing what it is... she ends up blaming herself.
2) It's a "condition" which may develop into a full transition. She needs to have the knowledge to make decisions about her own future.
~Kate~
Quote from: Ashley Michelle on August 01, 2007, 05:49:12 PM
No....it's not that it takes longer. It is just totally different. However, this subject is probably better suited to the 'sexuality' forum. Let me know if you take it there?
Bev
wait.... is that irrespective or whether you have srs or not? i'd like to know ;)
[/quote]
Yes....irrespective
Bev
Posted on: August 03, 2007, 10:32:07 PM
Quote from: Ashley Michelle on August 01, 2007, 05:49:12 PM
wait.... is that irrespective or whether you have srs or not? i'd like to know ;)
yes, irrespective
Quote from: Wendy on August 01, 2007, 12:41:17 PM
My wife still loves me but is fuming and angry at me. I do not think the meds have done much for my physical appearance and that is why I can avoid detection.
Are you sure that is wise? Your wife is already angry at you and feeling betrayed, and you are doing permanent alterations to your body without telling her? I mean it's your call, because it's your body, and I wish you nothing but happiness. But reading that made me think you at least subconsciously actually want a divorce at this point.
It always amazes me though when I read about the hatred that comes from significant others, particularly in a marriage...AND REMINDS ME WHY I NEVER WANT TO GET MARRIED! Ha.
Hope things get better!
imho, I really think that if its true love then a SO will support and accept you for who you are. I love Vanessa with all my heart, and I can't imagine not being supportive and encouraging. I understand that some SO's feel betrayed because of the deception, but ultimately they decided to care about you, and they should continue to care. I understand that the deception is a big deal for some, but they also need to understand that most people don't come out because they are afraid, and because they don't want to hurt anyone, so they live with the pain all tucked away inside. Maybe your So no longer wants to be intimate because of their orientation, but if they really care then they will still want you to be happy and they will support you, and still be your friend. I am personally proud that I am an open and accepting individual, and that Vanessa felt comfortable enough with me so quickly to be able to come out. It really makes me sad that so many people in the world are close minded.