I apologize girls, if this has been brought up before. I'm pretty new to the site.
I recently came into some information on this at a web site that is of course, trying to sell it as well. Has anyone here ever tried it?
I am non-op and will probably remain that way simply due to finances but the thought of trying something like this out (assuming it would work) sounds fun. But like with anything, a lot of this stuff is just snake oil preying on the vanity of ladies everywhere.
This is from the site:
Ethynyl estradiol [EE], is a synthetic derivate of Estradiol [ the natural hormone] and was first made many years ago to overcome the rapid breakdown of estradiol in the body...etc...side effects: Your breasts will grow to 80 percent of your mothers cup size within 3 years or more.Your skin will get smoother.Your hair will thin out everywhere but the hair on your head.You will see your hips/butt change slowly into a girly figure.Drop in your libidio.Changes in your moods,you will become more emotional, often less agressive.These changes will take 2 to 4 months to begin and keep continuing as you take the liquid estradiol.
--------------------
Feedback? Thank you, ladies!
I am pretty sure that it is the worst form of estradiol (the kind with all the bad side effects and health risks). More importantly, if it is from a website then it doesn't seem to be regulated by a physician which is very bad (not to mention against ToS)
The beta-17 estradiol that you get through proper HRT channels has all of the same benefits without a lot of the added risk.
If this is what you are interested in, please see a doctor or therapist and look into proper HRT.
Thanks for the quick response, xponentialshift. I made sure not to mention the site as this was more of a "fact finding" mission...and your information was useful, so hopefully the mods look kindly on me...smile...
This from Wiki:
"The FDA withdrew approval of Estinyl effective June 4, 2004 at the request of Schering, who had discontinued marketing Estinyl."
The web site that's selling that stuff is doing a bad thing it appears. The full wiki article supported your position above, Xp.
RUN -- dont walk -- RUN away from this substance ASAP. Ethynyl estradiol is dangerous in my opinion, and in the opinion of any reputable MD, too.
Many bad and risky side effects -- I would immediately FIRE any MD who tried to "insist" that I put this substance into my body. And I would find a competent MD who has moved beyond the "Dark Ages" of Ethynyl estradiol
Beta-17-estradiol is a pure form of estogen that is super duper.
Where I live in Latin America, it is hard to obtain beta-17-estradiol, so I have taken estradiol valerate for over 5 weeks and micronized progesterone, with super results I have detailed in the Introductions section. My nipples and areolas look ready for a baby to nurse on them, I have no more body odor, my hair quality is much better and softer and the hair on my head is growing better again, my facial acne and other acne has almost totally disappeared, I feel GREAT and SO right...!
Estradiol valerate is easy to find in the Latin country where I live, and it is chemically virtually identical to beta 17 estradiol, and basically produces identical results.
So try to get either beta 17 estradiol or estradiol valerate, medical grade, from a pharmaceutical company with the highest reputation for safety and efficacy.
Premarin, which for a long time was the "standard" treatment, is now obsolete also, and I would fire any doctor who tried to prescribe this for me. Why would I risk Premarin, either, which hurts animals and has some dangerous side effects, too?
It would be stupid for me to agree to take either Premarin or Ethynyl estradiol, when the super duper beta 17 estadiol or estradiol valerate, with minimal to no side effects, are available from any competent MD who knows what the heck he or she is doing.
Happy journey to you!
Hugs,
Johnna.
With Estradiol Valerate being reasonably cheap, there really isn't much point to give Ethynyl estradiol a second look. It has a track record that is pretty bad for DVT, and other clotting related issues, but at one point seemed fairly popular due to it's low cost. It is still quite widely available worldwide, but I would always take safety over price if there is a choice.
Quote from: Hikari on July 22, 2014, 12:05:45 AM
With Estradiol Valerate being reasonably cheap, there really isn't much point to give Ethynyl estradiol a second look. It has a track record that is pretty bad for DVT, and other clotting related issues, but at one point seemed fairly popular due to it's low cost. It is still quite widely available worldwide, but I would always take safety over price if there is a choice.
Right on and totally correct Hikari!
Johanna
Great information, ladies. Thank you!
You're welcome! Hope this helps you. I think the folks here have just about fully answered your questions...just speak with your MD about dosages.
You now have the BEST possible answers about WHICH medications. If you can find a truly competent MD who prescribes either one of these 2 substances (17 beta estradiol OR estradiol valerate) for gender change M to F, you have made the right choices...you just have to get the right doseages, which this site prohibits, but that is okay, speak to a COMPETENT MD, not just any old MD.
It is certainly correct to say estradiol valerate is reasonably priced. In the Latin country I have lived in for many years, the price in US $ is about $10 for a one-week supply, based on my current dosages. I consider this to be medium...not cheap, but not expensive. For me, it is affordable, which is what counts!
Johanna
Quote from: Dani Davis on July 21, 2014, 10:08:28 PM
I recently came into some information on this at a web site that is of course, trying to sell it as well. Has anyone here ever tried it?
Ethynyl estradiol [EE], is a synthetic derivate of Estradiol [ the natural hormone] and was first made many years ago to overcome the rapid breakdown of estradiol in the body...etc...side effects: Your breasts will grow to 80 percent of your mothers cup size within 3 years or more.Your skin will get smoother.Your hair will thin out everywhere but the hair on your head.You will see your hips/butt change slowly into a girly figure.Drop in your libidio.Changes in your moods,you will become more emotional, often less agressive.These changes will take 2 to 4 months to begin and keep continuing as you take the liquid estradiol.
--------------------
Feedback? Thank you, ladies!
HRT with Ethinyl estradiol has been associated with a higher incidence of venous thromboembolism (clots in your veins) in cis- or trans-women.
Just plain estrogen (17-B-estradiol), which is the main and natural female estrogen would do you good, of course always under the supervision of a qualified physician.
Just to reiterate to anyone who may be browsing here. These are powerful substances which cause changes to your body and should not be undertaken without the consultation, prescription and follow-up of a qualified physician,
Best to all,
Traci
Quote from: traci_k on July 23, 2014, 03:02:04 PM
Just to reiterate to anyone who may be browsing here. These are powerful substances which cause changes to your body and should not be undertaken without the consultation, prescription and follow-up of a qualified physician,
Best to all,
Traci
Indeed. In the event that I was not clear, my purpose for the question was as a fact finding mission to find out more information on it and what if any, others experiences have been while using it.
Hopefully, for the purposes of education and discussion these types of questions are allowed here.
For SURE these are powerful substances. The PHYSICAL results are totally obvious, and even measurable with photographic evidence which is indisputable.
The mental changes are even more profound...MUCH more than I expected, nearly 6 weeks in.
The mental changes for me are numerous, and astounding, and magnificent, and euphoric.
I feel RIGHT!!!
:)
Johanna.
Quote from: JohannaJohn on July 25, 2014, 02:59:58 PM
For SURE these are powerful substances. The mental changes for me are numerous, and astounding, and magnificent, and euphoric.
I feel RIGHT!!!
:)
Johanna.
All True ^^____^^. For me I felt right on the 3rd day. It was like my body had been starving for this all my life. Finally after many years of misery and despair to feel NORMAL was nothing less than awesome!
Allie :icon_flower:
Over the decades on several occasions I did ethynil estradiol due to its availability and also that it was not premarin, which had an even worse rep. As a 'Low Dose' regime it did the trick for me providing that much needed brain 'Reset'. And it was LOW. (hard to believe they can make pills that tiny!) Far lower than what the lowest premarin pill.
There are far better and safer ways to go these days.
I wrote about my experiences using EE here some time back, got a nasty clot that filled the main artery in my left leg from my foot to the crotch (major DVT). I made it to the ER right away because my leg swelled up twice the size of the other overnight. I was taken off hormones and put on daily doses of Coumadin and weekly blood draws and monitoring for six months, it could have killed me and is a real good reason why we don't self medicate or use that stuff of all that is out there. A lot of folks who have done that are pushing up daisies today.
Quote from: JoanneB on July 25, 2014, 05:39:40 PM
Over the decades on several occasions I did ethynil estradiol due to its availability and also that it was not premarin, which had an even worse rep. As a 'Low Dose' regime it did the trick for me providing that much needed brain 'Reset'. And it was LOW. (hard to believe they can make pills that tiny!) Far lower than what the lowest premarin pill.
There are far better and safer ways to go these days.
Joanne B., you are now very fortunate we have moved out of the "Dark Ages" (since about 2008 perhaps??) of the use of Premarin and ethynil estadiol. An MD precribing these nowadays should be sued for malpractice, since it is now well-established that both have very dangerous, measureable side effects.
So glad, Joanne B., that back in the "Dark Ages" of transgender treatment, you got your "brain reset" and got your mind attuned and feeling right...
Such as I myself have been doing now for 6 weeks, wow it is wonderful. I am euphoric and amazed at how wonderful I feel.
You were wise to avoid Premarin, which has many dangers. Plus, it hurts animals.
Long live estradiol valerate (which I use daily), 17 Beta estradiol, and various forms of non-oral administration that use safe and pure forms of our beloved estrogen.
Embraces,
Johanna.
The 'Dark Ages' for me go back to 1978 and longer. '78 was around my first 'Experiment' at transition. As you can well imagine there was a lot a buildup to get to that point. For me about 17 or more years of buildup. Another 34 or so after the first to what now seems the right approach for me
According to Wiki, The FDA withdrew approval of EE effective June 4, 2004 at the request of Schering (the manufacturer), who had discontinued marketing it so there shouldn't be any docs prescribing it anymore.
And any that DO prescribe it, should be SUED for medical malpractice.
And any Websites that sell it, should be SHUT DOWN and prosecuted.
Very dangerous.
Quote from: JohannaJohn on July 26, 2014, 12:43:23 PM
And any that DO prescribe it, should be SUED for medical malpractice.
And any Websites that sell it, should be SHUT DOWN and prosecuted.
Very dangerous.
After learning about EE from all the ladies here and reading about it at Wiki, I turned the web site where I found it, into the FDA. Hopefully, they will act on the tip and have it shut down.
Quote from: Dani Davis on July 26, 2014, 12:47:09 PM
After learning about EE from all the ladies here and reading about it at Wiki, I turned the web site where I found it, into the FDA. Hopefully, they will act on the tip and have it shut down.
Dani, my dear, you just got a +1 applause from me. You deserve about a +5 applause for maybe saving some trans-girls LIVES immediately.
Dani, from my heart (which I now FEEL much more 6 weeks into hormones -- this mental change for me is a shock -- I am truly amazed -- I really can FEEL now --) I say to you, you are truly BRAVE...
To do the RIGHT thing...
If the United States FDA decides to take actions against this Website, it won't stop their life-threatening activites in other countries, but many trans-girls are located in the USA, and you probably are saving many lives here, that the Website you mentioned miight jeopardize.
Kudos to you, Dani...very brave of you to take ACTION, and to do the right thing...
Susan, owner of this Website, has probably saved many lives, too, of trans-girls, or potential trans-girls, by totally banning ALL discussions of a popular "herb" from Asia called PM that is wildly risky from what I can tell...dangerous, unpredictable side effects...
Hey, with LEGITIMATE medical-grade powerful females hormones such as the daily estradiol valerate and micronized progesterone I take, from MAJOR impeccable European-based pharmaceutical companies such as Bayer (the brand name of one of the hormones I take -- if you can't trust Bayer, who can you trust?), my "girls" (breasts) are starting to rather noticeable, and my nipples are totally erect and noticeable through my shirt -- they really are QUITE obvious, after jsut 6 WEEKS on strong medical grade hormones.
And obsolete, discredited, dis-approved by FDA ethynyl estadiol. The fact that the manufacturer has WITHDRAWN this from the USA market speaks LOUDLY about how dangerous it is, well-known now since about 2004.
Dani, dear, my heartfelt thanks for probably saving many lives with your brave words and actions today.
Hugs to all,
Johanna.
Reality check ladies. First off I doubt that the site in question is in the USA. If it were, it already was criminal. To dispense drugs in the USA you need to first be given a prescription for it. No script, No sale. Or jail. (BTW-This criminality also applies to the person desiring the medications.) Some ED drug sites have a doc on staff and based on your "Truthfulness" in filling out their health assessment you get your little blue pill.
Through a much needed legal loophole a resident can purchase certain classes of medications outside the USA and 'import' up to a 3 month supply. A foreign supplier is likely not bound by USA law for a prescription. The only risk is a package being siezed by customs which I understand is a rare thing. A script will expedite you getting your goodies back from the feds.
Second, I have found no confirmation that EE is illegal to sell, only that Schering decided not to market it's trade name Estynil EE tablets in the USA. Unless it is not approved for use, like Androcur (a kick ass AA) any doc can prescribe any drug. Even 'Off Label' use is legal, just an insurance issue. ALL estrogens (as well as a laundry list of other drugs) carry a clotting risk. Back 50 years ago a young woman that lived across the hall from us died from a clot thanks to her birth control pills. There are people that would love to see Premarin banned since it is made from horse piss. All drugs have side effects and risks. If Asprin were to be submitted to the FDA it would never be approved because of all it's risks. Should that also be banned and anyone selling it jailed?
It is easy from the comfort of ivory towers here in the USA to dictate how things "should be". For many, on line pharmacies are a life-line. For many World-Wide as well as here at home. I did the DIY route for decades. If I didn't I likely would not be alive today. I am fortunate to live in a country and now in an era when I can go 'Legit' with little ramification. (BTW- Until a year ago I dared not thanks to who/what I worked for) If you have access to the internet, with very little work you also have access to a wealth of information on medications, their side effects, and their risks. It doesn't take being an MD to make an intelligent decision. (Heck, after working in the medical device field for years and seeing how my wife has been mistreated for years I earned a very healthy disrespect for doctors)
I cannot dictate how someone else should run their life. I barely have a handle on my own. I am constantly reminded by close friends, my therapist, and my wife I am not God. I cannot control my own future, so why worry so much over it? When I can I do advise and help others seek out legit ways to handle their dysphoria. Since I cannot see someone being in pain when there is help available, I cannot see cutting a possible lifeline that I myself sorely needed and used many times. Not just for HRT but for other meds as well.
</off soapbox>
Quote from: JoanneB on July 26, 2014, 05:40:21 PM
Through a much needed legal loophole a resident can purchase certain classes of medications outside the USA and 'import' up to a 3 month supply. A foreign supplier is likely not bound by USA law for a prescription. The only risk is a package being siezed by customs which I understand is a rare thing. A script will expedite you getting your goodies back from the feds.
Not anymore. FedEx has just been indicted by the Federal Government for allowing the shipping of offshore meds without a prescription. Two other major shippers here have been indicted and fined and will no longer be involved in the transport or delivery from such pharmacies abroad. Right or wrong it is being cracked down on. This list of providers includes two well known sites talked about here occasionally. :)
Quote from: Jessica Merriman on July 26, 2014, 05:47:32 PM
Not anymore. FedEx has just been indicted by the Federal Government for allowing the shipping of offshore meds without a prescription. Two other major shippers here have been indicted and fined and will no longer be involved in the transport or delivery from such pharmacies abroad. Right or wrong it is being cracked down on. This list of providers includes two well known sites talked about here occasionally. :)
Not the USPS???? They delivered all my packages. I guess it still is an ongoing criminal activity that some day will get a Rico indictment. ;D
The FedEx indictment was only nine days ago so USPS might be gearing up to suspend shipping, who knows. Maybe the Feds want the profits all to themselves for shipping what they indict others for. Would not surprise me at all. ::)
SAN FRANCISCO (AP) — Federal authorities on Thursday charged FedEx with assisting illegal pharmacies by knowingly delivering painkillers and dangerous drugs to customers without prescriptions.
The Department of Justice announced the charges in Washington, D.C. It wants FedEx to forfeit $820 million it says the cargo company earned by assisting the illicit pharmacies.
The Memphis, Tennessee-based delivery company is accused of shipping powerful sleeping aid Ambien, anti-anxiety medications Valium and Xanax, and other drugs to customers who had no legitimate medical need and lacked valid prescriptions.
FedEx insists it did nothing wrong. The world's largest cargo company says it handles 10 million packages a day and shouldn't be in charge of "assuming criminal responsibility" for every delivery.
"We will plead not guilty. We will defend against this attack on the integrity and good name of FedEx and its employees," company spokesman Patrick Fitzgerald said in a written statement.
Fitzgerald said the Drug Enforcement Agency has refused FedEx's request for a list of online pharmacies under investigation. Without such a list, Fitzgerald said it's impossible to know which companies are operating illegally.
The Justice Department alleges that federal officials have been telling FedEx since 2004 that it was shipping dangerous drug without a prescription. The indictment also alleges that FedEx couriers in Kentucky, Tennessee and Virginia warned executives about suspicious drug deliveries.
FedEx first disclosed the federal investigation in a regulatory filing in November 2012.
Rival shipping company UPS Inc. paid $40 million last year to resolve similar allegations, and the Atlanta-based company said it would "take steps" to block illicit online drug dealers from using its delivery service.
Both companies said in regulatory filings that they were served with grand jury subpoenas between 2007 and 2009
The investigation of the country's two largest shippers stems from a blitz against the proliferation of online pharmacies launched in 2005 in San Francisco. Since then, dozens of arrests have been made, thousands of websites shuttered, and tens of millions of dollars and pills seized worldwide as investigators continue to broaden the probe beyond the operators.
The executive director of Express Association of America, a trade group created by FedEx, UPS and three other delivery services, said there is no industry-wide effort to address the policing of prescription drug deliveries.
"It's not the kind of issue we deal with as an association," association chief Mike Mullen said.
In 2011, Google Inc. agreed to pay $500 million to settle allegations by the Justice Department that it profited from ads for illegal online pharmacies.
A federal jury in 2012 convicted three men of operating illegal pharmacies that used FedEx and UPS to deliver drugs without proper prescriptions. Seven others were convicted in San Francisco previously.
When I first started my hrt I was DIY for about a month and a half before finding my Endo, and had no trouble getting my deliveries. I even ordered a 6 month supply just to have in reserve should something happen to my Endo. All deliveries came via USPS. Had I not started my hrt when I did though, none of you lovely ladies would have met me.
I can understand them cracking down on any pharmacy shipping opiate pain killers or xanax, but as far as I know hrt meds aren't controlled substances unless the laws have changed in the last 5 months.
I plan on getting my injections through an online pharmacy. I hope I won't have a problem. I do have a prescription for them though.
Allie :icon_flower:
Thank you for the very kind words and thumbs-up, JohannaJohn! Most appreciated.
As for offshore websites, the Dept of Homeland Security, CIA and various others regularly block offshore sites. I know this because I used to visit several off shore movie sites to watch free movies. Try going to them now and there is a Homeland Security seal on the pages and a message saying the site has been blocked for various reasons. I've seen it happen to other non-movie sites as well.
Also, I might add or ask rather - if the FDA has removed a medication from the approved list (which they did in 2004 with EE), regardless of the reason, wouldn't that then make it illegal for a doctor to prescribe it?
As someone who worked in logistics it is silly to do anything to any carrier. It is simply not practical to inspect the contents of every package. Shipping would either be twice as expensive or twice as long and that would translate into a very bad economic recipe.
I personally think people ought to be Able to take whatever they want, but be made aware of the risks. The op has done some due diligence by asking around and getting information, that is great, but when we start doing too much to protect people from their own choices we start to fight a battle that cannot be won.
Quote from: Hikari on July 26, 2014, 07:17:37 PM
I personally think people ought to be Able to take whatever they want, but be made aware of the risks.
Oh I agree, just posting what our silly Government is wasting time on. Personally I feel the pharmaceutical industry and it's powerful lobby money is causing the pressure on the offshore pharmacies. The only issue I have with meds obtained without a prescription is when the recipient gets into medical trouble costing thousands to the tax payers if they are on government tax payer supported benefits.
Quote from: Dani Davis on July 26, 2014, 07:08:56 PM
Also, I might add or ask rather - if the FDA has removed a medication from the approved list (which they did in 2004 with EE), regardless of the reason, wouldn't that then make it illegal for a doctor to prescribe it?
The FDA did not really do anything. Schering just said they are no longer marketing Estynil in the USA, please take it off the list of drugs we can make (which translates into saving a LOT of paperwork for them). The FDA said OK, No Prob.
EE is still available for sale in the USA
Quote from: Hikari on July 26, 2014, 07:17:37 PM
I personally think people ought to be Able to take whatever they want, but be made aware of the risks. The op has done some due diligence by asking around and getting information, that is great, but when we start doing too much to protect people from their own choices we start to fight a battle that cannot be won.
Very well said Hikari ^^____^^. Most major carriers are in trouble now including USPS (I have a very good friend who's a postal worker). Clamping down restrictions like these may in fact send some or all into bankruptcy.
Allie :icon_flower:
Quote from: JoanneB on July 26, 2014, 07:31:56 PM
The FDA did not really do anything. Schering just said they are no longer marketing Estynil in the USA, please take it off the list of drugs we can make (which translates into saving a LOT of paperwork for them). The FDA said OK, No Prob.
EE is still available for sale in the USA
then wiki is in error as it clearly states that the FDA removed it from the list of approved Meds.
Quote from: Dani Davis on July 26, 2014, 08:39:21 PM
then wiki is in error as it clearly states that the FDA removed it from the list of approved Meds.
Wiki's in many instances aren't that accurate so this is not surprising. In fact, when I was still in classes we were forbidden to use wiki's as sources for academic papers.
Allie :icon_flower:
Quote from: Allyda on July 26, 2014, 08:43:45 PM
Wiki's in many instances aren't that accurate so this is not surprising. In fact, when I was still in classes we were forbidden to use wiki's as sources for academic papers.
Allie :icon_flower:
Yep...I have found many instances of Wiki-goofs over the years. This may be one of them.
Wikis can of course make errors, but that doesn't change the fact that Ethynyl Estradiol is dangerous, and pretty darn stupid to use when 17 beta estradiol, estradiol valerate, and other non-oral "pure" forms of our beloved estrogens are available.
I agree that if the Website is selling EE, which requires a prescription in the USA, to US residents inside the USA, then for sure the Website is engaging in criminal activity under USA law. This is obviously the case.
The best to all,
Johanna.
Ecstatic with happiness about my mental and physical results (such as "girls") so far!
:)
Quote from: Dani Davis on July 26, 2014, 08:39:21 PM
then wiki is in error as it clearly states that the FDA removed it from the list of approved Meds.
Original sources ( http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2004-05-05/pdf/04-10194.pdf (http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2004-05-05/pdf/04-10194.pdf) )are all that you can maybe believe. Plus years of dealing with the feds and reading legalese helps. The Wiki does clearly say that Schering applied to the FDA to remove Estynil from it's (being Schering's) list of marketed drugs.
SUPPLEMENTARY INFORMATION
:
Food and Drug Administration
[Docket No. 2004N–0159]
Schering Corp. et al.; Withdrawal of
Approval of 92 New Drug Applications
and 49 Abbreviated New Drug Applications
The holders of the applications listed in the
table in this document have informed
FDA that these drug products are no
longer marketed Also if you click on the link to the Federal Register bottom left side is where it clearly states Schering has asked for the lowing (2 pages or so of meds) to be removed from their list of marketed items. Which simply means Schering and Shering alone is no longer in the business of making those 151 drugs.
Ethinyl estradiol is commonly used in birth control pills... which is why the incredibly low amounts used in those pills (amounts measured in hundredths or less of what's in cis women's HRT, much less ours) still produce risk factors equal to or higher than HRT. Birth control pills as prescribed are considered adequately safe, but that's only because the amounts ARE so tiny.
Also, I have no idea why people think it's been yanked off the market - maybe for HRT, but not for birth control. Ortho Tri-Cyclen (http://www.myortho360.com/tricyclen/welcome), Ortho Nova, NuvaRing, etc. all still include it as a primary ingredient.
http://contraception.about.com/od/contraceptionglossaryef/g/Ethinyl-Estradiol-Synthetic-Estrogen.htm
Jenna, great additional info about ethynyl estradiol. +1 applause for you.
Joanna.
I started out on estinyl along with biweekly injections. That was when I was around 13 or 14. I went off estinyl around the age of 30 and ceased injections a bit earlier than that. Transitioned over to estradiol at that time. At that time, I was not aware of the dangers of estinyl other than the normal dangers of taking estrogen. I never experienced anything out of the ordinary. I believe the same effect could have been achieved with estradiol along the biweekly injections. I never took any anti-androgen. My blood tests indicate little tiny bits of testosterone to none along with the estrogen levels comparable to a woman of my present age (56).
Back to your question. Any differences in the two? Not really. Most of my peers at the time were my age and some were taking premarin along with perlutal from across the border. Estinyl was the preference at the time in southern texas for doctors. Some of the girls that I witnessed transition from "male" to "female" in their 30's took estinyl and for some the results were better than others. At the time, there was a prevalent belief that estinyl was superior along with the perlutal but I think it depends on your physical makeup.
Now that I am more careful about what goes into my body, I am thankful for my switch to Estradiol and would advise anyone to NOT take estinyl because of the risks associated with it.
Quote from: Hikari on July 26, 2014, 07:17:37 PM
I personally think people ought to be Able to take whatever they want, but be made aware of the risks. The op has done some due diligence by asking around and getting information, that is great, but when we start doing too much to protect people from their own choices we start to fight a battle that cannot be won.
This popped back up on my tracker so I thought I would respond to this. You make good points. There are however other good reasons for having rogue web sites removed or blocked. The web site in question was obviously an offshore (even though they tried to look like they were an LA company) and only accepted cash or western union and they would only accept UPS shipments for the money (no postal fraud that way). Basically, it was my opinion that they were crooks pandering to the very real needs of the T community. And if there are that many red flags BEFORE you have even taken a pill (assuming you would get any) - one has to wonder just what their pills are made of.
I didn't go in search of these people, they responded to a CL posting I had in a T area. They were obviously trolling for suckers. If they had a legitimate enterprise going, their business practices would have spoken for themselves.
I don't feel bad at all for turning them in.
Quote from: Dani Davis on August 05, 2014, 11:48:03 PM
This popped back up on my tracker so I thought I would respond to this. You make good points. There are however other good reasons for having rogue web sites removed or blocked. The web site in question was obviously an offshore (even though they tried to look like they were an LA company) and only accepted cash or western union and they would only accept UPS shipments for the money (no postal fraud that way). Basically, it was my opinion that they were crooks pandering to the very real needs of the T community. And if there are that many red flags BEFORE you have even taken a pill (assuming you would get any) - one has to wonder just what their pills are made of.
I didn't go in search of these people, they responded to a CL posting I had in a T area. They were obviously trolling for suckers. If they had a legitimate enterprise going, their business practices would have spoken for themselves.
I don't feel bad at all for turning them in.
I agree with you, I would have turned them in myself IF: As you say they did not accept major credit cards for payment. AND, they would not ship USPS.
However, and I need to point this out, there ARE legitimate offshore pharmacies out there who are a lifeline for some of us. I currently have a wonderful Endo and my hrt is being monitored and I'm well on my way with my SRS being scheduled for this December. BUT it wasn't always like this for me. I live in a rural area of Florida and had a hard time finding my Endo/Doctors to get my hrt started. And if it weren't for two of these offshore pharmacies I wouldn't be here writing this right now -I'd be dead. So this is a touchy area for some of us -just so ya know.
Ali :icon_flower:
Gals, my understanding is that often truly fraudulent companies won't accept banking transactions such as credit cards and won't ship via government carriers (like the Postal Service) because it makes it much harder to prosecute them for fraud. Therefore, this can be a valid indicator of fraud. Not a guarantee, but an indicator.
Also, some of you have some very valid points about a literal "lifeline" to having "alternative" sources available to you, or else you would be dead. Good point.
Johanna.
Actually another thing is they have to do payments other than credit cards because banks here will not authorize illegal transactions. This would put themselves (banks) in a position to be gone after by the Federal Government themselves. This is why some require Western Union and other alternative forms of payment. :)
Quote from: Jessica Merriman on August 07, 2014, 05:54:47 PM
Actually another thing is they have to do payments other than credit cards because banks here will not authorize illegal transactions. This would put themselves (banks) in a position to be gone after by the Federal Government themselves. This is why some require Western Union and other alternative forms of payment. :)
Good point Jess^^___^^ I had forgotten about that. The two I used accepted my Visa card though.
Ali :icon_flower:
i think ethinyL estradioL is onLy dangerous when you are taking it in Late age. but it did great feminization on younger mtf. this is due to the fact that ethinyL estradioL is the most potent estrogen. 100 times foLd than estradioL in terms of feminizing.
PrincessKisses : I'll reiterate that higher doses of ethinyl estradiol is even considered dangerous in cis girls taking birth control... there's a reason that the earliest forms of the Pill were much higher doses and now modern medicine has sought to decrease the amount to the bare minimum that will be effective.
It's no longer recommended or prescribed in the US because it is extremely risky. I tried it back when I was self medicating and awoke one morning with a life threatening case of DVT, had I not made it to the ER right away I might not be here today. Don't encourage anyone to take that that crap, it's irresponsible.