I've had this friend for over thirty years now, I first met her in her last year of high school, the year I had started uni. Never felt attracted to her and we got along very well platonically. Over the years we have drifted in and out of each other's lives and currently have a pretty good connection. I never told her about my first attempt at transition, she has always been fairly religious (her younger sister even more so) and I just figured she'd be too conservative about that kind of thing to understand or cope.
I did tell her this time though, I didn't really have much option since I had offered her some casual IT relief work through my employer and would be her supervisor for three weeks plus I would be transitioning to full time right at the start of her contract! She took it really well though. When I told her I was trans her response was "oh sweetie, I've always known!" She was really supportive and even sent me a little gift with "Grace" engraved on it. Very sweet. Since I was pre transition when I told her I gave her a couple of pics of me as Grace so she at least knew who she'd be talking to on the phone (her job was to be working from home).
Anyway that was four months ago. She recently told me that she had put my pic with a few others of cis women and asked her friends (people I don't know) if they could "pick the transsexual". She wasn't doing it as a joke, just as a bizarre experiment to satisfy her curiosity about my passability I guess. I suppose I should feel flattered that out of the four choices given I was picked about 25% of the time, meaning nobody had a clue.
But still... WTF?? :icon_confused2:
Have to say I wasn't really impressed but I let it slide and yes, she is still a friend.
I would be offended
yea seriously I feel like most people don't realize that we don't want to be sensationalized like that. that would make me very uncomfortable... but I agree it isn't something that should ruin a friendship. maybe you should talk to her about it though.
Yes, that is a bit of a Whiskey Tango Foxtrot moment. I'd be pretty upset, TBH.
If anyone pulls that one on me, I'd be sending them 4 pictures of fingers with the question, "Which one do you think is the middle finger?"
I wonder if I'm not cutting her a lot of slack because I've known her such a long time and she is generally so supportive. If it was someone else I would feel utterly violated. At one level I think to myself "well that's just J being J", but yeah a bit of a talk is probably needed. I wonder if the three cis women were also people she knew and how they'd feel about their pics being in the "experiment" too...
Quote from: Jill F on July 25, 2014, 07:16:52 PM
If anyone pulls that one on me, I'd be sending them 4 pictures of fingers with the question, "Which one do you think is the middle finger?"
Lol! :laugh:
I'd be kind of irritated, but I'd let it slide, as long as she doesn't make a habit of doing things like that.
Quote from: Pikachu on July 25, 2014, 07:19:23 PM
I'd be kind of irritated, but I'd let it slide, as long as she doesn't make a habit of doing things like that.
Well I don't think you should let it slide. This is a social experiment of the worst order. If someone posted 'spot the "fill in any disadvantaged group" ' Would that be acceptable?
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing.
As trans people we do have unique but parallel problems with a lot of groups.
It seems a lot of think this was rather rude of her to do such a thing. But I don't see it like that. I highly doubt it was an experiment in her head, she feels you are a woman and she wanted to PROVE that to you. The fact that she done this means she cares about you so much that she sat down and came up with a way to PROVE to you that you succeeded.
Did did this not make you feel good? It'd make me feel good it'd make me feel like all the stuff I went through to transition paid of. If it made you feel good I don't care what anyone says you have no right to be angry Because she gave you something positive!
There is no way I could imagine that a friend would do such a thing unless they were very confident of the outcome. This looks like it was suppose to help you realize how beautiful you are! How you ARE a woman, and it worked no?
Quote from: Cindy on July 25, 2014, 07:24:39 PM
Well I don't think you should let it slide. This is a social experiment of the worst order. If someone posted 'spot the "fill in any disadvantaged group" ' Would that be acceptable?
Oh, it's not acceptable. But I'd still let it slide. That doesn't mean I approve of it, I'm just saying I wouldn't end an otherwise good friendship over it.
Quote from: Pikachu on July 25, 2014, 07:35:48 PM
Oh, it's not acceptable. But I'd still let it slide. That doesn't mean I approve of it, I'm just saying I wouldn't end an otherwise good friendship over it.
No reason to end the friendship over that, but I'd definitely hit her with a cluebat.
Personally I think that she had no intention of being the least bit offensive, she was more than likely thinking that she was being supportive presenting your photo among photos of cis women to other cis women. Because in the real world where I live I would view it as a legitimate litmus test of your passability because unlike males cis women have extremely discerning eyes, they can often pick a trans woman out of the crowd really fast. I would assume that she is ignorant about how sensitive this stuff can be for many of us. I'd cut her some slack and take the time to give her a head's up about your feelings concerning this issue. She didn't mean to be offensive and you can bet that if she had negative feelings about your transition she would have shown it on her face and voiced her opinion early on. It would be short sighted to trash this friendship when a quiet discussion would suffice.
I don't quite know how I would feel. I would not like my life being reduced to an answer in the "Trivial Pursuit" game though. Hmmm :eusa_think:
Quote from: Blue Rabbit on July 25, 2014, 07:28:41 PM
It seems a lot of think this was rather rude of her to do such a thing. But I don't see it like that. I highly doubt it was an experiment in her head, she feels you are a woman and she wanted to PROVE that to you. The fact that she done this means she cares about you so much that she sat down and came up with a way to PROVE to you that you succeeded.
Did did this not make you feel good? It'd make me feel good it'd make me feel like all the stuff I went through to transition paid of. If it made you feel good I don't care what anyone says you have no right to be angry Because she gave you something positive!
There is no way I could imagine that a friend would do such a thing unless they were very confident of the outcome. This looks like it was suppose to help you realize how beautiful you are! How you ARE a woman, and it worked no?
It sounds like it gave grace some mixed emotions. I think by reading her post she felt flattered but uncomfortable at the same time. since she just came out to her friend maybe her friend was just not used to dealing with trans people so she might be a little ignorant. I think you are right when you say that she was trying to make grace feel good though.
so grace it definitely let her know if it made you uncomfortable.
Oh yeah, not going to trash it. Knowing J, she can be a bit odd. I don't doubt she thought this was well intentioned, but I will be having a chat to her about it.
Quote from: Ms Grace on July 25, 2014, 07:50:07 PM
Oh yeah, not going to trash it. Knowing J, she can be a bit odd. I don't doubt she thought this was well intentioned, but I will be having a chat to her about it.
Atta Girl! :eusa_clap: :icon_bunch:
I'm a little confused , did she tell these others who was trans or just keep it to her self. If she kept it to her self , she might of been thinking she was giving you confidence and if the experiment went south she might not of told you she did it. I for one being of the trangender group would of had no clue.
It sounds like one of those "I don't mean to be <blank> but" moments. Now while sometimes there is no malice intended you should remind her, you are a human being with actual feelings not some exhibit in a social experiment.
Disappearing in today's society can be difficult enough with all the technology available today and how small our world actually is. So unless you want to advertise yourself do you really want your friends singing your song for you? No matter how innocent it may seem to them
Quote from: stephaniec on July 25, 2014, 07:52:34 PM
I'm a little confused , did she tell these others who was trans or just keep it to her self. If she kept it to her self , she might of been thinking she was giving you confidence and if the experiment went south she might not of told you she did it. I for one being of the trangender group would of had no clue.
To be honest, I'm not sure if she then said "the correct answer is 'C'"...and I do get a sense part of it was her trying to prove to me that I was passable (not that I expressed those doubts to her!). She's an odd girl!
well, the way you look in your avatar I think they call her a liar if she told them
Oh dear, I sincerely hope talking to the friend about the matter goes well and that her positive intentions can be harnessed to better ends in future. While good intentions are laudable, intent does not magically negate effect.
Personally, I'd be particularly perturbed by the lack of consent and the way the 'experiment' could have reinforced the entitled notion it's acceptable to treat the existence of trans people as a toy to play with for those participating in it. It would be unfortunate if the cis women she spoke to were given the impression it's acceptable to collectively talk about or guess the status of other trans people given the potential for compromising safety or creating other major issues for those targeted.
Hi Grace, I think the fact she told you meant she thought it was a "good" thing. Although I cannot understand how she came to that conclusion!
You've known her for 30 years and she's more "odd" than bad intentioned, so I would agree with having a quiet word with her about her strange "experiment". I think that at times even those with good intentions get a bit caught in the "OMG, I know a trans* person" headlights and do or say some weird stuff.
I've no doubt you'll put her straight!
Quirky friend.
Sounds like she meant well, probably intention to reassure you about how well you pass.
And she probably was oblivious about the possibility you might be offended.
Talk to her, and be gentle. I have a friend who's like a cocker spaniel. Very loyal, dumb as when it comes to personal tact, but always means well. I just face palm every time he does something stupid.
Yeah, I wouldn't burn bridges with an ally for anything less than a truly egregious breach.
It sounds like she's a little ditzy and just didn't know any better, since it wasn't malicious you should just have a talk with her.
my friend did something similar
she showed pics of me to her friends and asked if they see anything wierd
they said they see nothing wierd just a bunch of girls...
so i was happy
she did it to reassure me that i look female
Grace, I think it would have been appropriate if your friend J had mentioned her plan to you as to whether you would be comfortable with this & if you felt this would out you and not want J to do this, that she should abide by your decision.
Perhaps that is a gentle way to broach the subject with J. Seeing as you have been friends for 30 years you must know each other well enough that your relationship will continue. Best wishes.
Just my take on the issue. You are progressing into a pretty lady.
Hugs
Jamie
My wife (post-op and full time some 30+ years) had experienced even more 'Bizarre' experiment from lovers and other T friends. Confused and or conflicted lovers that had to get approval from a trusted confidant, or another T that wanted to use her as 'justification'.
Essentially you tell the third party I am going to introduce you to a T. Now tell me whether or not she is a perfectly normal woman and you had no idea. Talk about a destined to fail test!
Your friend ran a far better version, using a cop show photo array to try to pick out the perp.
You should know by now the conflict cis people experience when confronting gender. Add religion into the mix and you got bigger mess to deal with. Sure it hurts to know she needed validation of what was likely her feelings of how well you present. She also probably felt she could not trust her opinion since she is 'too close' to the situation, much like my wife's friends in the past. You also forced her to confront her religious beliefs on 'deviants', such as yourself. Obviously you aren't quit up to the standards of "Evil" that she expected.
Oh - just make sure you put all the "Trans Agenda" training manuals away before she visits you. :D
Grace, am sorry this happened to you.
I am glad you will be discussing it with her. She probable does not understand she treated you as a picture and not a person with feelings. Being judged whether passing or not or being trans or not is harsh. Being trans the subject can have major issues associated with it due to hyper sensitivity on the subject.