My adams apple is my most intense source of M2F strife and it annoys the hell out of me. I am getting it scythed with extreme prejudice before the end of the year.
Anyway I would list in the order of my dysphoria:
#1 - adams apple
#2 - broader shoulders than cis female
#3 - upper body muscle mass
#4 - lower body muscle mass
#5 - decidedly male hairline
My facial features and structure are not too bad, voice is improving, my hands and feet are small and I'm short, beard shadow almost gone, so anything else would make for a more extended list ;D
Sure:
#1 - Voice
#2 - Stomach
#3 - face
#4 - facial hair that never seems to want to go away :(
#5 - muscle
1 Adam's Apple
2 Voice
3 Big , wide bones , including shoulders , skull , hands , feet , ribcage
4 Masculine facial features , or maybe it is plain ugliness
5 Masculine digit ratio
1.That thing between my legs
2.big nose
Hrt has slowly fixed everything else.
Quote from: Claudia_FF on August 01, 2014, 12:11:54 AM
1 Adam's Apple
2 Voice
3 Big , wide bones , including shoulders , skull , hands , feet , ribcage
4 Masculine facial features , or maybe it is plain ugliness
5 Masculine digit ratio
What's a masculine digit ratio? ???
1) Bone structures. From the narrow hips to the shape of my jawline.
2) Facial and body hair *shudders* I'm going to laser and electrolyse every last little evil follicle into oblivion.
3) Hairline and slight thinning of hair. Why evolution? Why?
4) Voice.
5) Height. Unfortunately, I'm 6'3" which I'm guessing is due to my mother (if that's how inheritance works) since she's a similar height whereas my father is about 5'6" and is representative of that side of the family. Why couldn't I get the one thing I actually wanted to inherit from him? :P
Most dysphoria pre-transition:
1. Hair. (Starting to go bald was the most traumatic experience of my life.)
2. Voice. (Losing my soprano singing voice was the second most traumatic experience of my life, and I hate that I can't fully express myself vocally in the same way that cis-women can.)
3. Body hair (thank God that's gone.)
4. Muscle mass (thank God that's gone too.)
5. Wide shoulders / narrow hips
Most dysphoria now:
1. Hair (Grow faster, damn it!!! And fill in on the corners of the hairline and the back of my head, damn it!!!)
2. Voice
3. Wide shoulders / narrow hips
4. Genitals
5. Facial features. (Brow bossing / square jaw / big chin / nose)
When your index finger is smaller than the ring finger , It supposedly shows that the brain is ' masculinized ' . It is common in MAAB , and it is correlated with masculine features and better math skills than creativity and language ones ( which by the way I wrote this is correct :) , sorry , English is not my native language and some terms are unknown to me ) . Apparently virtually all transsexuals have digit ratio closer to 1 the fingers are equal lengthwise , a feature common in FAAB .
So , I have a masculine digit ratio , and combined with OCD , it feels sometimes that all my femininity and transition is denied .
I wouldn't say these are massively dysphoric for me but they are things on my mind so they must be...
1 Dongle/tackle/family jewels
2 Head hair... or lack thereof
3 Voice
4 Beard & mo (slowly disappearing...yay)
5 Height
#1 kyphosis (this is unrelated to male physiology, but it is one of my major physical problems causing me that I look ugly/male-like from side view)
#2 Adams apple
#3 bone structure
#4 body and facial hair
#5 voice
This is a topic I've thought of A LOT...
1 - brown bossing (will fix with FFS)
2 - facial hair (electrolysis is 90% done)
3 - jaw (FFS)
4 - nose (FFS)
5 - trachea (FFS)
1: Voice
2: Facial hair
3: Belly
4: Feet
5: Hands
(genitals is too obvious, so I didn't list it)
1) Hair. Hair everywhere!
2) Linebacker shoulders
3) Enormous, wide feet. I doubt I'll ever be able to pull off any kind of open-toe shoes, or heels.
4) Thunder thighs
5) Huge hands
Hmm... I have yet to be significantly triggered by any of my dysphorias thankfully, but I guess my top 5 would be... From least to highest dislike:
5: Adam's apple
4: skin tone (I hate that I tan so dark. Not sure if this is a male/female thing)
3: hips (although they seem to be opening up. Yay!)
1/2: body hair / voice
Honorable mention: large hands and feet w/ big veins
By the way, I know the list is for secondary male characteristics and I put dongle at #1... but I do consider it a secondary feature ;)
Here are mine
1. Big bones
2. Facial hair
3. Facial hair
4. Stomach
5. Facial hair
I'm really curious what brow bossing is.
Quote from: Juliett on August 01, 2014, 04:08:01 AM
I'm really curious what brow bossing is.
It's a bony sort of "ridge" right above the eyes, and below the eyebrows. A distinctly male thing.
( f) all of the above
1: jaw muscles (come on hrt!)
2: facial hair
3: neck thickness (going)
4: high hairline (ffs? Or getting over it)
5: bossing (soo minor, I may get ffs)
Okay soo
Voice and chin are my most feminine features, so not very concerned with these.
1 - Body hair
2 - Adam's apple, even though it is small but I can still feel it if I touch my neck
3 - hands
4 - feet
5 - brow ridge
1. Hair face,
2. Adam Apple,
3. Face (no ffs at this time)
4. Genital
5. Shape body
Have a great day,
Hannah
1. Voice - I miss my soprano voice...
2. Height - the females in my family are midgets.
3. Shoulders
4. Hands
5. Face
Of the above... Only face is somewhat readily fixed...
1. Body shape
2. Facial hair
3. Body hair
4. Adam's apple
5. Voice
EDIT: The masculine body structure can be made feminine, but yeah, my voice bothers me
1. Height, but being just a shade under 6ft would be manageable, if it weren't for things like ...
2. Feet ... UK size 11: aaarrrggghhh!!!
3. Shoulders: not broad for a man, but broader than my hips
4. Too much hair ... on my face
5. Too little hair ... on my head
On the other hand, I have no visible Adam's apple (bizarre because I have a deep voice), slender wrists and ankles, feminine eyes and mouth and a sticking-out backside. So it could have been a lot, lot worse! :)
Quote from: Evelyn K on July 31, 2014, 11:53:29 PM
I am getting it scythed with extreme prejudice before the end of the year.
Scythed?! Oh my! (I don't blame you though) :)
Mine are
1. Radio deejay voice, sometimes I feel like I need to just learn sign language
2. Stubble! 22 hours of electrolysis so far, slowly but surely getting there but yeah it's a glacially slow process. :(
3. Being called "young man", "man", whatever... repeatedly at work (full time is coming soon but not there yet)
4. Body hair, HRT is slowly taking care of that!
5. Voice....Yeah, twice because it REALLY bugs me out. :(
1. Genitals
2. Facial hair
3. Belly
4. Broad shoulders
5. Body hair
I do have a very, very male voice, but that doesn't bother me that much since I'm starting voice therapy in just a couple of months. Other things are being corrected by hormones pretty fast. I should also be getting to face lasering pretty soon, but I predict the voice thing will be much easier a process for me.
The first three a lot more so than the latter two.
1. Facial hair/stubble
2. Stomach
3. Male (square) hairline
4. Brow. I don't know if it's bossing (supposedly mine's not too bad) or over developed scowling muscles >:(
5. Adam's apple. It's mostly hidden behind all the fat on my neck, but I still never liked it.
Before I started shaving it off, chest hair would have been way up there (somewhere between 2 and 3). I've felt a lot better with it gone. Surprisingly, arm and leg hair doesn't bother me that much.
1. Voice
2. Body hair
3. Body odour
4. Heightened sex drive
5. Voice too like AmazinglyAutumn, it bothers me too!
My adam's apple
My skinny legs
brow ridge
ugly manly nose
facial hair
1.Shoulders
2.body hair
3.muscles
4.voice
5.masculine face characteristics
1. Facial Hair
2. Nose
3. neck muscles
4. acne scars
5. Hair that rearranges itself into male style
*Penis is obvious
Type five things I like since HRT:
1. Ability to get the love of my life, which wouldn't have happened without HRT
2. Fatty legs
3. Much bigger boobs from a B to a D
4. Loss of weight from 140 to 115
5. Butt increasing in size (Or as my BF says: ur getting a fattie lol)
1] the "sausage"
2] facial and bodily hair
3] not girl skin
4]not having boobs
5]not looking like a girl in general
most of the things said by others dont pose a problem for me im not tall or have a mass and natural female-ish hips
Body Hair
Adams apple
Voice
Stomach
Ribs: I'm self conscious about how pronounced mine are :(
1. Facial/Body Hair (making good progress with professional laser on the face and Tria on the body hair, but it's such a long process...)
2. Male Bone Structure (I hate these damn broad shoulders so much...)
3. Face (it's sort of semi-passable depending on the angle, lighting conditions, etc., but it's still too masculine for my taste)
4. Fat Distribution (carrying all my fat on my stomach makes me feel very uncomfortable)
5. Voice (would be higher except that I can actually manage a passable voice most of the time)
Ironically, hair loss was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back for me, but after years of using minoxidil it has actually come back to the point where it's not even in my top 5 dysphoria triggers. I'd still like to get a hairline advancement to have a more feminine hairline though. Also, I'm surprised to see so many people putting face/body hair high up on their lists. Somehow I thought I was the only one who considered body hair to be their biggest dysphoria trigger.
1. Nose
2. Voice
3. Shoulders
4. Chest
5. Hips
Since I already had a somewhat feminine body shape, long legs, short torso, small hands and feet, and since it was mentioned, a feminine digit ratio, well, let's see. In order of dysphoria #1 being the worse:
1. Between my legs lies an abomination of the highest order.
1a. Voice.
2. Remaining gray facial hair.
3. My baby bump belly.
4. Face: scars from accident, nose, brows, and cheeks, and facial mouth muscle atrophy.
5. Bad teeth from accident.
6. My age of 49, and the lost years I missed out on.
I'm only 7 months in on my hrt, so many of these issues may still correct themselves. The ones that do not, will be addressed with FFS after my SRS and VFS.
Allie :icon_flower: :icon_flower:
1. facial hair - doing electro now
2. body shape - wide shoulders, narrow hips - hoping hrt will give me a bigger booty
3. belly - exercising to lose weight
4. voice - haven't done anything about this
5. body hair - shaving arms and legs, would like to do laser on my legs, but my money is being spent on electrolysis on the face which is much more important
1. Huge forehead
2. Brow bossing
3. Broad rib cage
...that's it, actually. I *hated* my square chin, big shoulders, and big feet but HRT took care of those. The voice, facial hair (UGH #1 by far back then), and "dongle" I fixed by other methods, and I just came to terms with my height (5'8") and stopped feeling freakishly tall as the rest of my body changed.
I don't like thinking about how I still have a male skeleton/bone structure, but I can ignore that 99% of the time now.
Hmmm....
Brow
Facial hair
Voice
Adam's apple
Body hair.
Hips would be close fifth too.
:'(
Quote from: Carrie Liz on August 01, 2014, 12:34:06 AM
Most dysphoria pre-transition:
1. Hair. (Starting to go bald was the most traumatic experience of my life.)
2. Voice. (Losing my soprano singing voice was the second most traumatic experience of my life, and I hate that I can't fully express myself vocally in the same way that cis-women can.)
3. Body hair (thank God that's gone.)
4. Muscle mass (thank God that's gone too.)
5. Wide shoulders / narrow hips
Most dysphoria now:
1. Hair (Grow faster, damn it!!! And fill in on the corners of the hairline and the back of my head, damn it!!!)
2. Voice
3. Wide shoulders / narrow hips
4. Genitals
5. Facial features. (Brow bossing / square jaw / big chin / nose)
Carrie about what month in until you've noticed discernible muscle loss?
Quote from: Evelyn K on August 01, 2014, 02:31:47 PM
Carrie about what month in until you've noticed discernible muscle loss?
I felt it only a few months in, (REALLY bad muscle fatigue, and I couldn't serve a volleyball overhand anymore because it kept falling short of the net,) but I didn't really start seeing a significant visual change until about the 7-8 month mark. It's been ongoing ever since then, at a pretty consistent rate. I feel pretty close to the female norm now, just shy of 19 months in. My arms are getting really skinny, and I can feel the "lightness" every time I move.
1. Forehead. I know it could be worse, but every single time I look in the mirror I just laser in on that damn thing >_<
2. Facial stubble. When it's short, it's painful to shave, and I have no job, so no hair removal until job.
3. Belly. I don't weigh much, you can see my ribs, and my legs and arms look pretty great... but my belly is so flabby no matter what I do >_<
4. Hairline. The M is slowly squaring off, but it's taking so long, i found a shampoo that helps, but it's like... I want to take so many showers just to speed it up... but that'll only make it worse :<
5. Nose. Just... bleh.
1. Elbows
2. Ears
3. Ankles
4. Clavicles
5. Septum
1) Face (nose and brow mostly)
2) facial hair
3) male hairline and thin flat hair
4) Adam's apple
5) Body shape - no hips but big ribs and shoulders for a girl.
1. Hands
2. Poor complexion
3. ugly legs (complexion, scars) I Actual still have a scar from shaving my legs poorly when I was 17 yrs old
4. thin and fine hair
5. the thing between my legs!! Although its a primary one, I consider it a secondary one since no one else knows its there except for me.
Quote from: Carrie Liz on August 01, 2014, 03:42:17 PM
I felt it only a few months in, (REALLY bad muscle fatigue, and I couldn't serve a volleyball overhand anymore because it kept falling short of the net,) but I didn't really start seeing a significant visual change until about the 7-8 month mark. It's been ongoing ever since then, at a pretty consistent rate. I feel pretty close to the female norm now, just shy of 19 months in. My arms are getting really skinny, and I can feel the "lightness" every time I move.
I keep reading about this magic 7-8 month mark in HRT.
Sounds like something to really look forward to... 3 and 1/2 months to go!
Quote from: Evelyn K on August 01, 2014, 06:40:17 PM
I keep reading about this magic 7-8 month mark in HRT.
Sounds like something to really look forward to... 3 and 1/2 months to go!
dont get too excited , progress is happening steadily ,I call the "magic" 7/8th month of hrt officially bullsh*t
Dysphoric things
1) MPB (getting better, slowly)
2) Facial hair
3) Adam's apple
4) stomach (although my wife says I am cray)
5) genitals (getting smaller every day, yay, those nasty things)
6) height
7) voice ( been practicing for 1.5 years and it is getting better)
Things I love about HRT
1) Boobs a growing :)
2) body hair is like that of a female, very happy.
3) Mental and psychological
4) softness
5) loss of muscle
6) Doing something in a positive direction.
Quote from: FalseHybridPrincess on August 01, 2014, 06:47:25 PM
dont get too excited , progress is happening steadily ,I call the "magic" 7/8th month of hrt officially bullsh*t
That's what I'm thinking also. Reason being, some gals are starting off on some really low therapeutic levels of estrogen (you know, gatekeeping and testing) and for months on out. So who really knows...
Quote from: FalseHybridPrincess on August 01, 2014, 06:47:25 PM
dont get too excited , progress is happening steadily ,I call the "magic" 7/8th month of hrt officially bullsh*t
Yeah, it is mainly steady. I think the reason why everyone feels like the 7-8 month mark is some sort of magic "takeoff" point is just because that's about the time where the differences are becoming noticeable enough that you can actually see them. But yeah, I agree, it is a slow steady thing. I'm just saying that 7-8 months was the first time that I could look back at how I looked in the beginning and really start seeing a significant difference comparatively.
This one is easy: Body hair, Body hair, Body hair, Body hair, Body hair
Everything else is well known and predictable, but body hair is different. No matter how much hair removal I do, there are always seems to be a few hairs that make their appearance at the most embarrassing of moments. I don't know how they get missed, and suddenly show up way longer they should, but it happens to me on a regular basis.
Quote from: April Lee on August 01, 2014, 09:30:53 PM
This one is easy: Body hair
Everything else is well known and predictable, but body hair is different. No matter how much hair removal I do, there are always seems to be a few hairs that make their appearance at the most embarrassing of moments. I don't know how they get missed, and suddenly show up way longer they should, but it happens to me on a regular basis.
They could just be ingrown hair that got stuck beneath the surface before emerging all at once. This is a constant problem for me too, because my follicles are so deep. I used to get a ton of ingrown hair on my arm and legs even before I did any hair removal. But at the time I didn't even realize it. I thought they were just weird ugly bumps that my body decided to create for no apparent reason. Just one more thing to hate about my body, on a long, long list of things...
1. Lack of hips and butt
2. Large bones structure (esp wrists, ankles neck)
3. Voice
4. Feet aren't huge (9.5-10) but are just large enough that it is impossible to find regular shoes :(
5. Hands (sausage fingers)
Quote from: Evelyn K on July 31, 2014, 11:53:29 PM
My adams apple is my most intense source of M2F strife and it annoys the hell out of me. I am getting it scythed with extreme prejudice before the end of the year.
Anyway I would list in the order of my dysphoria:
#1 - adams apple
#2 - broader shoulders than cis female
#3 - upper body muscle mass
#4 - lower body muscle mass
#5 - decidedly male hairline
My facial features and structure are not too bad, voice is improving, my hands and feet are small and I'm short, beard shadow almost gone, so anything else would make for a more extended list ;D
I'm seriously thinking about addressing #3 and #4 by going on a 1-month cardio marathon and protein/carb elimination in my diet. Will help to address #2 as well. I just want to burn off these f'n muscles. Just going nuts running 2 miles a day and an hour on the elliptical. You know you're burning muscle protein when you smell like ammonia at the end of the workout.
The only problem is, with this much stress hormones and cortisol created from all the cardio I don't want it to effect my hair. I'll lose a lot of body fat and my face will get sunken. Perhaps the upside is I lose the muscle and can yo-yo back up the body fat in female proportions.
This is motivation enough:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Foi60.tinypic.com%2F5lqwsy.jpg&hash=a762f58ee57f413851d0cad5632c1396cd7a37e8)
I'm just a lil' bit jellus!
Quote from: Evelyn K on August 01, 2014, 10:35:54 PM
I'm seriously thinking about addressing #3 and #4 by going on a 1-month cardio marathon and protein/carb elimination in my diet. Will help to address #2 as well. I just want to burn off these f'n muscles. Just going nuts running 2 miles a day and an hour on the elliptical. You know you're burning muscle protein when you smell like ammonia at the end of the workout.
The only problem is, with this much stress hormones and cortisol created from all the cardio I don't want it to effect my hair. I'll lose a lot of body fat and my face will get sunken. Perhaps the upside is I lose the muscle and can yo-yo back up the body fat in female proportions.
Cardio I would do myself too , yet protein/carb elimination , especially protein elimination is something I am worried about . I am already loosing hair at an alarming rate and it seems that hair needs a lot of protein and calories . A month without them would diverse whatever amount of them are in the blood , towards the vital organs .
I am focusing on regrowth , so at the moment I am even supplementing my diet with protein powder ( it is kinda triggering , a few years ago I was using it for bodybuilding purposes )
So I will just go with the cardio , and patience , waiting for the estrogen and progesterone effects . After all the body won't change in an instant . It takes time .
That's a risk I'm willing to take - possibility of some system shock hair loss. But it will eventually come back. ;D
I mentioned it before, you never see bulky marathon runners. Their limbs are lanky and thin because their physique is optimized for long distance running this way.
Quote from: Evelyn K on August 01, 2014, 10:47:03 PM
I mentioned it before, you never see bulky marathon runners. Their limbs are lanky and thin because their physique is optimized for long distance running this way.
Umm, I've run six of these.....belly is still an issue. So, yeah, gut size is a problem. There are of course plenty of marathon runners who fit the description though - they finish just a bit more quickly than I do, however.
I'd also suggest (secondary or not) that anger, aggression and frustration have been a real problem for me. Mostly they've been internalised and, now I'm honest with myself, they're much reduced.
^^ No bulky as in muscle bulk. Too much slow twitch muscle weighs the runner down.
Fair point - I've never gone for muscle bulk. Gut bulk - a little more so. Must get out and run a bit more!
1. Voice
2. Laryngeal prominence
3. Genitals
4. Body shape
5. Body hair
Bit hard to order them, it'd probably change depending on how I felt and the circumstance but yeah.
1. Upper body bulk and shape
2. Body hair
3. Voice
4. MPB and thining hair
5. Male libido
I would put voice higher on the list, but the body hair is starting to REALLY get to me. If male libido counts as a primary characteristic then I would have to put now unwanted facial hair on the list.
Erin
1. Voice
2. No curves
3. Facial/body hair
4. Big, misshapen feet
5. Height
1. Voice
2. Facial hair
3. Body hair
4. Relatively wide feet
5. Protruding rib cage
1. male genitals
2. facial & body hair
3. thinning hair on head
4. male body shape
5. voice
1. Broad shoulders
2. Wide face / square jaw / big male skull
3. Brow ridge
4. Big hands with noticeable veins
5. Voice