Hi everyone,
I'm here writing about an issue I have been facing since I had my Orchiectomy at age 19 (I am now 21).
The greatest benefit, without question, I received from HRT at one point was with regards to facial feminization. It left me truly unrecognizable. I will, for the sake of this thread, enclose a before photo (when I was 15 before I had begun hormone treatment) and an "after" photo (from shortly after my orchiectomy). Between these photos, I have had no facial surgery.
Unfortunately, no matter what I seem to do hormonally (I have now tried pills, injections, and pellets with combinations of both with anti-androgens and without anti-androgens) my face continues to de-transition, seemingly one step closer every day towards my unfortunate "starting" point. It sort of feels like I was blessed with the gift of an amazing transition, and then some outside "force" decided to take it away. Needless to say, it has been very frustrating and heartbreaking and has made me feel very helpless.
As far as the pellets, which I am most recently using, I can concede that they seem to be feminizing my body at quite an accelerated rate, as well as providing consistent breast growth which I have never really had before... but the face is still not as feminine as it once was, and could perhaps be getting worse.
You can definitely see from the photos I have enclosed in this post the differences in terms of facial fat rearrangement the hormones once made in my case. I don't understand why that all suddenly went away. First my lips have become thinner after having plumped considerably through HRT, then my brows and the skin above my eyes started to "hang" again as it did before HRT, then I lost a lot of the prominence in my cheeks and the overall "roundness" of my face. My face is definitely becoming FAR less feminine, if not actually becoming more masculine.
It's as though I perhaps don't possess the testosterone (given the Orchiectomy) to masculinize, but the estrogen also doesn't appear to be "working" anymore, resulting in de-feminization and an "androgynous" rather than my prior overtly feminine appearance. I just don't understand what is happening!
I am still holding out hope that the pellets will provide the balance and results I am looking for. I have considered adding a DHT blocker back into the mix, but I can't imagine why this would be necessary given that I have had an Orchiectomy. Could my testosterone levels really be so substantial, post-op, as to result in high enough DHT levels to render my estrogen ineffective?
If anyone could shed any light, I would greatly appreciate it. I feel quite honestly devastated by all of this.
It's bringing back gender dysphoria like before I had ever transitioned, and making it close to impossible to function in my life even though when things were working I was beginning to build a great life for myself. :(
Sincere Regards,
Ashley
Stunning. Don't know what else to say! Did you have your E and T levels measured?
Thank you! That's very kind. Mind you, things aren't looking quite so pretty these days. :(
I had a hormone level test taken on the 5th and am awaiting the results. I would love if another girl who uses the pellet/implant method of HRT could respond with, generally, where the estradiol levels might ideally fall.
Additionally, it is worth noting that facial hair has also started to grow more often/faster than before my Orchiectomy, as well as the hair being darker after having gone fairly blonde at a certain point.
The same for leg hair and any other non-head-hair. Darker and thicker.
Though I have attributed all of the above as a possible culprit of a collagen-stimulating supplement I use daily (Biosil) which can cause hair growth, so, I assume that can extend beyond the scalp. But it seemed to have been becoming more of an issue even before the Biosil.
Can you show a current photo?
To be honest I currently don't take a large number of photos given how insecure I have been about my appearance since it has been, in my view, declining. I can say that I still look more like the "after" photo than the "before," however my issue is that I see myself gradually reverting back to the before. Or at least losing a lot of what made the after what it was. At the time, that photo was a very accurate representation of my appearance, and to perhaps a large extent, still is. It's just that it is slowly becoming seemingly less and less recognizable to me. I am beginning to recognize the "old me" more.
IMO many gals look softer and more feminine in early age than through early adulthood.
Maybe it's normal?
I could understand it being normal to a certain degree. But that photo was taken early into age 20, and I am now only mid-way into 21.
I don't see how that brief a period of time could result in what seems to be a progressively dramatic change.
Is there any validity to my concern that DHT could be the culprit? Thinking back, some of the issues did seem to begin 3-4 months after discontinuing Avodart, under the assumption that I would no longer need it (again, given the Orchiectomy) and feeling that it made me fatigued and perhaps exacerbated my ADD. Could DHT be a considerable issue, post-op?
DHT is a non issue for 2nd'ry sex characteristics or masculinization. There is an impact for hair loss though even in women.
If your changes are really that aggressive, get your labs done and have it interpreted. Find what your hormone baselines are. I also doubt you have much DHT circulating anyhow.
Maybe consider weight changes? Thyroid issues and the shift in body fat distribution?
While the testicles are the main producer of testosterone in the body (over 90% apparently) they aren't the only source...
Testosterone Week: A Short Primer on How T Is Made (http://www.artofmanliness.com/2013/01/15/how-testosterone-is-made/)
If you feel you are developing androgenic features then it would seem you're either not getting enough estrogen and/or maybe your body is over compensating for the loss of the testes (you are young, so maybe?? I dunno). As Evelyn points out DHT blockers will only work on hair loss since that's all DHT really has an effect on anyway.
Are you seeing an endocrinologist for a properly monitored dosage of female sex hormones?
It really sounds like you are losing some baby fat is all.
Adulthood happens to the best of us.
Hi there
Tori's comment is the one that also came to my mind - baby fat can drop off quite fast after adolescence.
If you haven't already done so, maybe a full medical might be a good idea just to check that everything is in full working order.
xxx
J
Quote from: whunder_stix on August 10, 2014, 01:45:58 AM
I had a hormone level test taken on the 5th and am awaiting the results. I would love if another girl who uses the pellet/implant method of HRT could respond with, generally, where the estradiol levels might ideally fall.
I had my recently had my first and my level is now around 600 pmol/l. Before that it was in the 200's and the difference is incredible. My endo says I can safely double it with the next one, and considering how much better I feel now I find it hard to imagine what that's going to be like.
Quote from: AnonyMs on August 10, 2014, 03:43:25 AM
I had my recently had my first and my level is now around 600 pmol/l. Before that it was in the 200's and the difference is incredible. My endo says I can safely double it with the next one, and considering how much better I feel now I find it hard to imagine what that's going to be like.
That's wonderful! I will be hoping for similar results then, myself!
Would you happen to visit Dr. O'Dea for your treatment, by any chance?
Quote from: whunder_stix on August 10, 2014, 04:19:19 AM
Would you happen to visit Dr. O'Dea for your treatment, by any chance?
No, I'm in Australia. Good luck with it.
Dr. O'Dea has never asked me to get my levels checked. Quite the opposite- I even tried recommending it to him lightly a few times out of my own curiosity, but he said completely not necessary
Isn't there supposed to be a cheap blood hormone level check at walgreens or something? I am still curious
Quote from: Jennygirl on August 10, 2014, 05:47:02 AM
Dr. O'Dea has never asked me to get my levels checked. Quite the opposite- I even tried recommending it to him lightly a few times out of my own curiosity, but he said completely not necessary
Just to be clear, he's not doing blood tests at all? That hardly sounds possible.
Quote from: Jennygirl on August 10, 2014, 05:47:02 AM
Dr. O'Dea has never asked me to get my levels checked. Quite the opposite- I even tried recommending it to him lightly a few times out of my own curiosity, but he said completely not necessary
Isn't there supposed to be a cheap blood hormone level check at walgreens or something? I am still curious
I really hope I didn't at all make it sound like the issue is with Dr. O'Dea or his treatment.
Do remember that I have only been on the pellets for about a month 1/2, so I will definitely be giving it somewhere closer to 6 months to a year before I make any final judgments. It is the first time in my transition of 6 years (and at only 1 1/2 months!) that I have experienced consistent breast growth. So, his work and his professionalism are magical, no question about it. It's just that I was hoping for an eradication of the facial issue I have had.
And I don't think it's simply a matter of "baby fat" loss as some are suggesting. I never really had any great degree of facial fat to begin with. It is a very clear, very direct loss of facial feminization. It was an issue way before I went to Dr. O'Dea and was my main reason for seeking O'Dea, so I definitely want to give this a chance to work. I know he will work for me until I have a resolution, and I look forward to seeing where my test results lie.
I would love to hear though, Jenny, what your levels are, if you ever get around to getting that tested. I am post-op and have 9 estrogen pellets and 1 progesterone pellet for my first time-through. I will be heading back in October to have them restored.
Quote from: AnonyMs on August 10, 2014, 05:50:49 AM
Just to be clear, he's not doing blood tests at all? That hardly sounds possible.
Not for me is all I know. If I had diabetes or something of that sort, I'm sure he would have ordered it.
whunder- I honestly highly doubt your facial differences have much to do with the hormone levels. It is probably just that your face is maturing, because you are now in your 20s instead of your teens. We all go through it- faces change as they get older. Luckily if it really is a big concern to you, there are plastic surgeons for that sort of thing. But looking at these photos, there's not a chance at all that I would recommend you do anything to your face. You are very very pretty :)
Either way, switching to the pellets was an A+ idea. If there's any chance of your face feminizing a bit farther, it's with the pellets. Excellent choice!
Amazing beautiful second pic! if your looks have regressed recent years since this pic can we please have a sneak preview of how you look now?
Quote from: Juliett on August 10, 2014, 02:15:59 AM
Can you show a current photo?
otherwise we can't really make any comment or know how you think you are de-transitioning. You may not look as bad as you think. Your second pic shows a very high standard of femininity and so you are aiming high and you have a physical image some of us will never reach.
I have also deteriorated and my face is getting thinner and less feminine than it used to be. My profile pic is two years old and I look worse now too. Transition is harder than you think but considering how young you had an orchidectimy I'm surprised you feel your femininity has deteriorated.
Also comments about blood test hormone levels will not reflect any physical problems. I sometimes get a little tired of this arguement.
You also look a dead ringer for the picture in the post below yours.
I'm so thankful for all of you who have responded. And while not my intention in posting my photos, I genuinely appreciate the lovely compliments as well. I was always proud of how far I have come since my "humble" beginning point, a true testament to the power/effectiveness of hormones I've always believed. And I am still very grateful, even if things may be a bit "shaky" at this point.
The reason I am certain that it is not age related, is because it seems to come and go on a month-by-month basis. I could show you a photo from a month ago, and you would say "well by no means have you de-transtitioned whatsoever!" but then I could show you a photo from a week ago, and you would say "OK, I can sort of see what you're referring to" and then I could show you a photo from a month from now and everything may be right as rain.
I'm hoping that, ultimately, the pellets will provide consistency. They have so far managed to do so very nicely with regards to breast growth, which again assures me they are working very profoundly as in 6 years I have not had very much breast growth at all, and definitely not consistent.
I think the issues I've had with my facial feminization, my top priority as it is what everyone (including myself when I look in the mirror) is going to see first, will eventually find balance as well. Some of the encouraging posts in this thread have definitely made me feel more hopeful than when I initially posted. That really is the beauty of this place.
I will be having FFS with Dr. Zukowski in October. So, as Jenny mentioned, whatever issues I have, if they do remain, will be eradicated at that point. I just wanted to have the "natural" femininity to compliment the "scalpel femininity," rather than a trade-off. 6 years (and especially the first 3-4 which were extremely difficult) tell me I earned it.
I'm not going to give up hope. Again, thank you everyone!
Sincere Regards,
Ash