I've moved to uni to get away from home atmosphere and be myself, moved in with some friends and 2 guys I hadnt met till recently. One of them started ranting about things he thinks are wrong with the world and came out with this:
'And trans people are a waste of money on the NHS' part, they just need to suck it up.'
I explained how there's a lot of depression in being trans, and that usually people go private anyway, and theres numerous accounts of lack of support on the NHS, myself included.
He then said 'Well, if they were suicidally depressed, maybe we should lock them in an empty room with a mislabeled bottle of pills they think will kill them, then we can see if they need taxpayer funded help.'
I personally feel that's inhumane and cruel, I tried to reason with him and he then responded with:
'I don't know much about trans people really, but it's clear you spend time in the trans community, since you're such a little bitch.'
At this point, I let my other housemates talk to him and went to the pub. I was pretty pissed off, feeling pretty uncomfortable
He's had serious talking to, and aparently 'didn't phrase himself well and it's all blown out of proportion.' as he put it, but personally, I don't think I can accept that. The nerve.
So yeah, not sure if I'm at risk from this guy or not.
That is a person I would not want to sharing a dwelling with. :(
I think you should be seriously very concerned. Bells, whistles and lights flashing brightly here.
If you can find another place as I would hate to see what happens when he is drunk. From what you have said it would be only bad.
Otherwise see if they can get him out.
Sorry you need to put your safety first.
J
You say NHS so I assume you are in the UK. In that case there are laws about transphobia.
Tell him you will not tolerate being spoken to like that and that if he repeats this behaviour you will go to the police station and report the incident. If he gets abusive or threatening then call 999 immediately.
I would echo the recommendation to seek alternate accommodation. This individual looks to be beyond reason. As with the student culture of drinking to excess, his inherent transphobia and alcohol induced de-inhibition could land you in physical harm.
It may be worth contacting your university's LGBT student group for further advice should tensions further rise in the meantime.
It's a U-decide moment. How much do you mind living with a callous @$$hole? If you don't care, stay. If not, afford him the pleasure of looking for a new housemate.
You're right: wishing somebody else would kill themselves is inhumane and cruel, and actionable in many cases. If he'd said that on social media he'd have the cops knocking on your door. Imagine if he'd made similar comments about cancer patients... what a charmer.
Methinks he spends just a bit too much time getting his opinions from the Daily Mail. You've tried to educate him (as have your friends, I'm sure) but here's something the Mail's readers and their ilk tend to forget: trans* people pay tax and National Insurance too. We are as entitled to NHS services as anyone else. And Gender Dysphoria is not a lifestyle choice... unlike smoking, pregnancy, sports, DIY, alcohol intake etc. It's a recognised medical condition with a high mortality rate that can be improved or resolved by following a proven, cost-effective treatment pathway. Most trans* people who are successfully treated go on to live happy, productive, tax-paying lives... continuing to pay more into the NHS than we take out of it for many years to come. So our treatment more than pays for itself.
He obviously doesn't realise you're trans, or he probably wouldn't have said those things. But now that you've made your opinions known he might start to get suspicious, and I'm not sure how that would end. This could go one of two ways: either the confrontation will harden his bad opinions about trans* people, or he'll start to pull his head out of his backside when he realises he's been misinformed.
My advice to you would be to talk to your friends about how uncomfortable you feel around his bigoted opinions, and ask them to help keep an eye out. If this continues or escalates, it'd be helpful if your friends are on your side if you need to kick him out. And if you're really worried, get the heck out of there.
Quote from: Leila on August 11, 2014, 06:09:50 AM
I would echo the recommendation to seek alternate accommodation.
Quote from: suzifrommd on August 11, 2014, 06:37:50 AM
It's a U-decide moment. How much do you mind living with a callous @$$hole? If you don't care, stay. If not, afford him the pleasure of looking for a new housemate.
Why? Jay is not the one causing trouble.
If Jay reports this as anti-social behaviour to the landlord then chances are this person will get a stiff talking to or possibly ejected. If Jay is
medically transitioning and has spoken to her GP to commence the transition process then she is, in UK law, a "protected person" and any transphobic crimes against her carry an additional penalty if a prosecution results.
The first step is to make the other person aware that Jay demands better treatment and will not tolerate bigotry and transphobia - public expressions of which are offences in the UK. Next make him aware that she will contact the landlord / police / university about this.
http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/your-rights/equal-rights/transgender/transgender-what-the-law-says
Quote from: aaggat on August 11, 2014, 07:02:29 AM
Why? Jay is not the one causing trouble.
No, but Jay has no control over the housemate. Jay only controls Jay.
IMO the housemate did not insult or harass Jay at all. Just expressed an opinion. Yes it was a microaggression, but I cannot imagine it rises to the level of law breaking.
However it did reveal the housemate to be a class A jerk. Jay's decision is whether to continue living with one.
Quote from: FTMDiaries on August 11, 2014, 06:52:19 AMHe obviously doesn't realise you're trans, or he probably wouldn't have said those things. But now that you've made your opinions known he might start to get suspicious, and I'm not sure how that would end. This could go one of two ways: either the confrontation will harden his bad opinions about trans* people, or he'll start to pull his head out of his backside when he realises he's been misinformed.
In my experience (and hey, I used to be one!), guys that age are often say things like that because they're still trying to define themselves as alpha-type hardmen or trying to find their own place in a new, strange community. It's almost as if they feel they have to say things like that to tell everyone that they're not gay, that they've got proper, grown-up opinions, and that they are no-nonsense kind of guys who nobody should mess with.
I think that for every ten people who voice vicious anti-trans opinions, only one actually truly believes what he (or she) is saying. As such, I don't think you're in a dangerous situation right now (as he doesn't know you're trans?), but it's certainly worth monitoring. And it sounds like your friends in the house are on your side, so that's a positive.
Guys like this, as FTMDiaries points out, do go two ways. If he's stubborn, he'll just harden his beliefs (probably to save face and not look like he's backtracking or going soft), but he might also act maturely, realize he's said some stupid stuff, and either keep his opinions to himself in the future or perhaps come to understand that trans people aren't the drain on society he thinks they are.
I'd give him a chance. Chat with him one-on-one (with no alcohol involved), explain that you really find those kinds of opinions offensive, and explain why. And let him know that it's ok, you can draw a line under what's been said and move forward without ever mentioning it again. People make mistakes. It's how they correct them (when given the opportunity to do so) that really defines who they are.
Having said all that, if you really feel like you're in a dangerous situation, then have him kicked out. (Although that brings in a whole additional set of dangers, as you'll no doubt bump into him throughout the rest of your uni career and he'll have told everyone exactly what kind of person he thinks you are and how unfairly you treated him, and you'll have no control over those rumors.)
It's a miserable situation to be in. I'm in the same situation at work: nobody knows I'm trans, and conversations with the guys sometimes venture into trans territory. Some of the things that are said are truly nasty, but I know my co-workers well enough to realize that they're saying those things out of ignorance or because they think it's cool to have those kinds of opinions, and not because they actually mean it. Once I come out, I honestly believe that almost all of them will be supportive. (Or perhaps I'm delusional.)
I hope you can find a good solution. Don't let this ruin your time at uni - you're there to study, remember?
Quote from: suzifrommd on August 11, 2014, 07:10:52 AM
No, but Jay has no control over the housemate. Jay only controls Jay.
If Jay's housemate is being transphobic it is against the law here. As in court appearances, fines, jail time, that sort of thing.
I would be amazed if anyone convicted of transphobia would retain their accomodation and university place.
UK universities are VERY inclusive places. They do not tolerate any displays of bigotry, homophobia or transphobia.
Quote from: suzifrommd on August 11, 2014, 07:10:52 AM
IMO the housemate did not insult or harass Jay at all. Just expressed an opinion. Yes it was a microaggression, but I cannot imagine it rises to the level of law breaking.
You were not there. Neither was I. The law is clear enough and will be on Jay's side in the event of a blow-up.
I reading between the lines, I have to ask "Does he know about you being trans"?
Part B, was there massive amounts of adult beverage consumed before his rant?
More curiosity on my part than needed info. So far, your housemates did the right thing and "Talked to him". You have to take their word it was a good talk which may or may not have included consequences. None of which is likely to change his basic attitude about trans people. Which will now just leave a lot of micro aggressions and comments that can easily be taken two ways, only one of which you both know were the correct viewpoint. Eventually these will occur out in the open in front of your mates, who may passively or even openly support them.
Plan A - I agree with Suzi, start looking for a new situation. Even let your mates know why. Only You can take care of You. Something you are coming to realize in other areas of your life. If your mates value you as a friend and respect your feelings the ass will get asked to leave.
There is only one way this is going to be resolved, either you leave or he does. Only one you have ultimate control over.
What do the rest of your housemates think of his behaviour?
Quote from: JoanneB on August 11, 2014, 08:52:37 AM
I reading between the lines, I have to ask "Does he know about you being trans"?
Part B, was there massive amounts of adult beverage consumed before his rant?
More curiosity on my part than needed info. So far, your housemates did the right thing and "Talked to him". You have to take their word it was a good talk which may or may not have included consequences. None of which is likely to change his basic attitude about trans people. Which will now just leave a lot of micro aggressions and comments that can easily be taken two ways, only one of which you both know were the correct viewpoint. Eventually these will occur out in the open in front of your mates, who may passively or even openly support them.
Plan A - I agree with Suzi, start looking for a new situation. Even let your mates know why. Only You can take care of You. Something you are coming to realize in other areas of your life. If your mates value you as a friend and respect your feelings the ass will get asked to leave.
There is only one way this is going to be resolved, either you leave or he does. Only one you have ultimate control over.
no drinking, but he does know Im trans. He's had a massive grilling off my housemates and been trying to say 'he just didn't word himself well,' like I need to know anything else about someone from the way they speak about testing suicide and other such nonsense >_>
it depends if he gets worse. I'm going to make a note of it and see how things go, but he might watch himself a bit now the housemates ganged up on him.
Quote from: jaybutterfly on August 11, 2014, 09:15:27 AM
it depends if he gets worse. I'm going to make a note of it and see how things go, but he might watch himself a bit now the housemates ganged up on him.
Yes, make a note - and include dates, times and names of witnesses to every single event. That way, if things do escalate you have evidence that you can give to the university authorities/cops/landlord, as appropriate.
Quote from: Brenda E on August 11, 2014, 07:29:58 AM
Guys like this, as FTMDiaries points out, do go two ways.
Oh, they go two ways, alright! That's why they act so tough and hard. They don't want people to know that they swing two ways.
Quote from: Ms Grace on August 11, 2014, 04:57:53 AM
That is a person I would not want to sharing a dwelling with. :(
That is a person I don't want to share a planet with!
I have written a letter on this matter to address the uni on this matter. Upon reading up on my rights as a student, the breach of conduct extends to 'out of hours' behaviour if it is towards another student, and includes hateful comments, disrespectful behaviour, physical violence and other behaviours deemed inappropriate, among other things.
I have written it to explain what happened (with date and times) quotation of what was said and how it has effected me emotionally. I have left a note at the bottom that since I don't know his surname I can only give other details, such as term-time address and first name. I have stated while he is acting apologetically, I still want a note to be made in case this behaviour continues... and if I feel like taking this to a disciplinary comitee.
I'm also going to warn his sorry ass in case this happens again, but only AFTER i submit my letter
The letter you've written certainly sounds like a sensible idea, especially in light of the fact that he suggested that trans* people should kill ourselves rather than use the NHS to which we're entitled.
Just one thought: do you think it's worth warning his sorry ass before you submit that letter? It's possible that you'll get a better outcome if he's been warned of the severity of his actions but is given an opportunity to make amends. If you submit that letter first, it's possible that he could perceive that as an act of aggression and a threat to his education. Only you can know exactly how he's acting now that he's been called out on his behaviour, and what might be the most appropriate response.
Quote from: FTMDiaries on August 11, 2014, 04:53:17 PM
The letter you've written certainly sounds like a sensible idea, especially in light of the fact that he suggested that trans* people should kill ourselves rather than use the NHS to which we're entitled.
Just one thought: do you think it's worth warning his sorry ass before you submit that letter? It's possible that you'll get a better outcome if he's been warned of the severity of his actions but is given an opportunity to make amends. If you submit that letter first, it's possible that he could perceive that as an act of aggression and a threat to his education. Only you can know exactly how he's acting now that he's been called out on his behaviour, and what might be the most appropriate response.
Possibly, I tend to be quiet swift on dealing with threats, but say he asks again, wouldn't it be questioned by I didn't report the first incident as it happened?
I've decided to email the uni and tell them this:
I'm an MA student returning to *uni name*, and I am currently living in Preston with other students. Now, one of the students I currently live with had a moment the other night where they were verbally abusive and border-lining transphobic, which disgusts me greatly.
He has claimed it was down to a bad mood that these things were said, but as an individual who is currently in counselling related to gender issues, I find this to be quite distressing. I have decided to show some lenience for now, on the possibility of ignorance on the person's part, but should it continue and I feel harassed, who do I speak to? I have made a note of the time this took place for record's sake.
Thanks in advance.
I think it's reasonable the university are made aware, regardless. I won't press for action unless he carries on.
That sounds perfect. :)
Jay, I think you're handling this really well!
It seems to me that when a person has come out with these vile, brainless comments as pretty much their opening greeting....well, it isn't likely to improve. There are would-be, tough, macho guys out there who are a bit insecure in themselves and have difficulty expressing themselves, and then there are also vicious, narrow-minded bigots who think they can threaten people on a whim. He's the latter, and whilst he needs to learn some basic human life skills, he shouldn't be doing so in your household!
All the best for your studies in sunny Preston! :)
Jay, I can't hope to contribute anything more than others already have but I hope you don't mind that I noticed your location. I appreciate you'll have far better alternative options and I sincerely hope it never comes to it but if you can't get to somewhere safe after feeling insecure then I'm relatively nearby. I understand I'm a total stranger so it isn't offering much of anything but if you ever need someone to meet you in the surrounding area or somewhere to get away to rapidly then please feel free to let me know.
As for the transphobe, it doesn't diminish the vileness but I sincerely hope it's a case of something like a transference of opinion from his parents that he evolves out of rapidly as life tests his world-view. Unfortunately, it sounds like that might be difficult if his pride warps his perception to the point he's only capable of admitting to 'misspeaking' after such a blatant and sustained attack. You are inherently entitled to better and I hope you get it from now on.
Quote from: Lonicera on August 12, 2014, 10:48:26 AM
Jay, I can't hope to contribute anything more than others already have but I hope you don't mind that I noticed your location. I appreciate you'll have far better alternative options and I sincerely hope it never comes to it but if you can't get to somewhere safe after feeling insecure then I'm relatively nearby. I understand I'm a total stranger so it isn't offering much of anything but if you ever need someone to meet you in the surrounding area or somewhere to get away to rapidly then please feel free to let me know.
As for the transphobe, it doesn't diminish the vileness but I sincerely hope it's a case of something like a transference of opinion from his parents that he evolves out of rapidly as life tests his world-view. Unfortunately, it sounds like that might be difficult if his pride warps his perception to the point he's only capable of admitting to 'misspeaking' after such a blatant and sustained attack. You are inherently entitled to better and I hope you get it from now on.
I've had a message from him today funnily. He claims he's just not educated on trans issues, and now he knows Im trans he wants peace in the house, so I'm going to have a face to face talk with him on it.
He also mentioned he was off his face on drugs that day, so his wording was off... I'm still going to remain exceptionally cautious, because I don't think vile comments like that come from drugs alone (moreover, they bring out something in people's deeper conscious or back of the mind). If he wants civility and to understand, I can give him that, but I wont have my guard completely down.
I appreciate the offer though, fancy pm'ing sometime?
Quote from: Jessika Lin on August 11, 2014, 12:12:31 PM
That is a person I don't want to share a planet with!
Or sharing my wifi or xbox or food or bathrooms...air...that sort of thing 8)
To all of you shouting condemnation i have this to say.
Maybe he is genuine about apologising. Maybe, being faced with a trans person for the first time in his life, he is learning something. Maybe he is learning that trans people are PEOPLE and that many people, most people, are tolerant and not bigotted.
Maybe he needs a second chance.
Jay has put things in place in case it all goes wrong so why not give it time and space and maybe it will all come right.
We keep saying we want understanding and compassion. Sometimes we have to show it as well
Quote from: aaggat on August 14, 2014, 05:03:25 AM
To all of you shouting condemnation i have this to say.
Maybe he is genuine about apologising. Maybe, being faced with a trans person for the first time in his life, he is learning something. Maybe he is learning that trans people are PEOPLE and that many people, most people, are tolerant and not bigotted.
Maybe he needs a second chance.
Jay has put things in place in case it all goes wrong so why not give it time and space and maybe it will all come right.
We keep saying we want understanding and compassion. Sometimes we have to show it as well
I actually agree. It sounds like he's just trying to prove to the other guys the world (and especially to himself) that he's a macho straight guy.
That's a typical reaction from my opinion when guys are confronted with 'treats' to their 'macho straightness'
Sounds like he's just being a dick.
I would try to show him the errors of his ways and not ruin his life with legal stuff for indirect comments. If you continue to be harassed the some direct action never hurts.
Wow you guys are lucky in the UK. Homophobia is as common as rednecks and ignorant f-ers here in the states. Wish those laws existed when I was in high school