"You'll see, you'll transition one day."
"You're unhappy? Stop whining and go on hrt."
I'm trying to figure out how to live without any possibility of immediate transition or hrt.
It bugs me how many trans women act like my not transitioning for relationship reasons is some kinda personal affront to them.
Anyone got real suggestions for coping strategies for someone like me who wants to transition, but can't see it bringing net happiness?
Yes. It is a tough question, but it is quite normal for me to present as a woman while not transitioning for relationship reasons.
Exercise instead of HRT.
Hair removal by Tria laser.
Some makeup.
A lot of heels and skirts....
barbie~~
Hi RobinGee,
If you can't see "net happiness" through transition, what can you see if you don't?
Find the answer and move on it.
Huggs
Catherine
Quote from: RobinGee on August 15, 2014, 01:21:39 PM
"You'll see, you'll transition one day."
"You're unhappy? Stop whining and go on hrt."
I'm trying to figure out how to live without any possibility of immediate transition or hrt.
It bugs me how many trans women act like my not transitioning for relationship reasons is some kinda personal affront to them.
Anyone got real suggestions for coping strategies for someone like me who wants to transition, but can't see it bringing net happiness?
Without testing your assumption that you cannot see the net benefit in transition, even MTA, presumably due to spouse, family, work, community etc I think that adopting a more androgynous presentation may help, particularly if you also have the opportunity for dressing, under dressing, hair removal, growing your hair etc. Talking with your therapist may help you develop and test other approaches, certainly support groups like Susans should produce a few ideas
Not sure if this would work or if it is realistic in your situation but you may find great relief and authenticity in coming out to selected folk re your trans* nature. Knowing that others know who you are, certainly made me more comfortable and less stressed.
Hope this helps
Safe travels
Aisla
like you, I did not transition for a long time due specifically to money, Not the paying for it, but living. I have a wife who totally accepts me and a mother who both knows and sometimes uses female pronouns. The social and financial costs can be staggering. I finally started homones when the disphoria got too bad. I dress whenever possible. Knowing what I know now, I would have studied nursing or some other area more conducive to transition. Only YOU can decide how much, when, and under what circumstances you can move yourself down the binary scale. I hope you find your path and follow it to wherever YOU decide to go. Just ignore the cheerleaders, they don't have to live your life.
Not cheerleading here. But you say "unhappy" and "in a relationship." Keep figuring.
Quote from: Missy~rmdlm on August 18, 2014, 12:46:21 PM
Not cheerleading here. But you say "unhappy" and "in a relationship." Keep figuring.
Yeah, that's the other really annoying thing people do. They trivialize relationships held by unhappy people. Leaving this relationship is not going to make me feel better.
:police:
Just a caution here folks. This is a support site and members come here to be educated, encouraged with their plans or find support. To simply categorize all who try to help with advice and personal experience as "cheerleaders" in a negative way is not appropriate or the spirit of this site. If you do not agree with the advice or support given find another topic which interest's you. Thank you! :)
:police:
Quote from: RobinGee on August 18, 2014, 02:32:48 PM
Yeah, that's the other really annoying thing people do. They trivialize relationships held by unhappy people. Leaving this relationship is not going to make me feel better.
I just don't understand how you can be with someone that doesn't understand you, and even if she does... I mean you are not a men. You are a woman, even if your body doesn't match that you are still one. That is so weird really... So,w hat does she says about transitioning? Can you wear make up and live full time without HRT? What about a super low dose of HRT? or just something like Finasteride so that you can recover your hair or not make them go away?
If she'll let you express yourself you can get a female wardrobe (If money is something you don't have, try Goodwill or Sales and stuff). There is make up and wigs, and women who don't use HRT and still pass. I've been told to pass sometimes with just make up <-
Hugs Serena <3
I suspect that therapy would be invaluable in helping you find the happiness you seek. At the very least a therapist is a safe place for you to go and vent which may be helpful as well.
Quote from: White Rabbit on August 18, 2014, 03:33:19 PM
I suspect that therapy would be invaluable in helping you find the happiness you seek. At the very least a therapist is a safe place for you to go and vent which may be helpful as well.
I second this!! That is what they are here for. :)
Quote from: RobinGee on August 18, 2014, 02:32:48 PM
Yeah, that's the other really annoying thing people do. They trivialize relationships held by unhappy people. Leaving this relationship is not going to make me feel better.
Most times it never does. But sometimes we just have to do what we got to do for ourselves. I had to end my marriage because she couldn't deal with being a "lesbian" or married to a MTF or sissy boy or all the other negative crap she called me. The "S" word, the "T" word and so on.
Definitely see a therapist though. It will do you wonders to find what you may seek. And sometimes it ain't always what we think.
Quote from: RobinGee on August 18, 2014, 02:32:48 PM
Yeah, that's the other really annoying thing people do. They trivialize relationships held by unhappy people. Leaving this relationship is not going to make me feel better.
I wish you the best of luck, I did have some relationship failures, but have been committed for over a year now in a new happy place that may result in marriage before too long. If that's cheer-leading, then go ahead and "hate" me.
I don't really hate anybody. I've just gotten a lot of flack. I'm talking about people dismissing me fo not jumping on the transition train.
The fact also remains that I'm not totally sure where my gender comfort zone for myself is. I'm somewhere between gender nonconforming straight male and non-op lesbian transwoman. I might be bigender, or gender fluid or whatever.
My wife has said she'll support me no matter what. But losing a lot of what makes me male makes her very sad. She has said that if I needed to completely be female including SRS she'd end our marriage but remain friends. She's not sure how far she's wiling to go less than that. We're in a non medical exploration period and I can be as open as I choose to be with the exception of three people for specific reasons. Unfortunately we live with two of them right now.
Hey Robin, hopefully you haven't copped flack on this site (although I know there can sometimes be people who aren't helpful in that regard). I guess some people may come across as cheerleaders because they believe they themselves were in a similar situation to you and "it worked out OK for them". The bottom line is that no one can know what is best for someone else, you have to do what you believe to be the right thing for yourself.
I should probably post and update or reintro or something. I've done some cool stuff since I stopped posting a lot.
I think because it's a help site, if someone asks specifically for help in non-transitioning, and explains that constantly getting flak is very exhausting, it's not helpful to further bug that person and say "transition already". I know from experience that the "cheerleading" can be really aggressive, and often turns into: if you don't transition you're not really trans etc.
I've had older trans people almost trying to force me to get surgery for more than 20 years now, or withdraw all support. I'm very headstrong so I could withstand that pressure, but someone younger or more insecure might not. And it still took a toll on me.
Transitioning is not the right solution for everyone, and not at every moment. Pushing people is a real problem, please acknowledge that.
Quote from: RobinGee on August 18, 2014, 09:47:45 PMI don't really hate anybody. I've just gotten a lot of flack. I'm talking about people dismissing me fo not jumping on the transition train.
The fact also remains that I'm not totally sure where my gender comfort zone for myself is. I'm somewhere between gender nonconforming straight male and non-op lesbian transwoman. I might be bigender, or gender fluid or whatever.
My wife has said she'll support me no matter what. But losing a lot of what makes me male makes her very sad. She has said that if I needed to completely be female including SRS she'd end our marriage but remain friends. She's not sure how far she's wiling to go less than that. We're in a non medical exploration period and I can be as open as I choose to be with the exception of three people for specific reasons. Unfortunately we live with two of them right now.
Hi Robin,
Your situation sounds familiar to my own in many ways. I also do not see myself entirely at either end of the gender spectrum. If I have a destination at all, then it would be somewhere in between. My wife has also been very supportive thus far, although she too has some caveats on what she feels capable of accepting. One big difference is that you are currently living with people to whom you cannot yet be completely yourself around.
My wife is also sad to see her husband slowly vanish, yet she has been & continues to be very supportive of me. She does have limits on what is able to accept, and I have been keeping that in mind with each decision I have had to make regarding taking steps to transition.
Shortly after I accepted that I might be trans, but before I had started HRT (or anything other than therapy), I was given some advice that has helped me tremendously in coping with the question: "How much should I do ? How far should I go ?"
I was told that, when it came to transitioning, I should be doing the least amount that I have to do in order to quell the dyphoria sufficiently so that I can enjoy my life, ie:
"The most that I should be doing is that least that I can get away with doing." For the first few months I tried not taking HRT. That did not work out too well for me. My 'least' included HRT.
My initial acceptance that I needed to address the issue came through a visit to the ER after I self-medicated on herbs. For me, it became clear that I absolutely had to go on HRT if I was to avoid another trip to the ER. My wife was very much against this initially, stating (among other things) that she would not be able to share a bed with boobs that weren't hers. That proved to be a line in the sand rather than written in stone. Quite possibly because not taking HRT had become an obvious threat to my health.
Part of what helped was that (after the my initial stupidity & visit to the ER) she could see that I was seeking & taking medical advice. We had joint sessions with both my therapist & hers. When I had a medical appointment, I always invited her to join me. She usually accepted, and she could see that I was being truthful with her about what was being discussed.
Once my wife started viewing HRT as just another medication that would (hopefully) address my OCD behaviour, my depression, etc., then she became OK with me at least trying something to see if it helped. HRT did help. A lot. So much that even though she still wants back the husband she married, she is quite unwilling to let go of the improvements in my behaviour. My OCD around being trans has gone, as has my depression. I have become more able to function in the world, and have not only been able to get a job that pays enough to pay the bills, but I am receiving & being told about emails from managers complimenting my work (this has never happened before). The improvement from HRT in my emotional & mental stability has been undeniable. It has even been obvious to my parents from 3,000 miles away via phone & Skype.
The visit to the ER that started me on this journey was in Jan 2013. I started HRT in Jun 2013. I did nothing else towards transition until Mar 2014.
After some discussion with my wife, I decided to go for laser treatment for my face in Mar 2014. This has removed most of the dark hairs, leaving me with no 5 o'clock shadow & many, many white beard hairs. I subsequently started getting electrolysis for the white hairs on my neck last month. Her reasoning for being OK with it was that she always preferred when my face was clean shaven. I am not doing anything about any of my body hair. I have not felt it necessary to do so. (It is not part of my 'least'.)
I am still presenting a male front to the world most of the time, even at home. I do not have the same restrictions at home as yourself. The other two people who live with us know about me being trans. My wife has told me that she does not mind how I dress when I am at home. I do sometimes wear female clothing, but I mostly wear clothing in which I feel comfortable leaving the house.
There is still no discussion, or even thoughts, of surgery. I do think that FFS or SRS surgery would likely be a marriage-ender. This is not my only reason for not considering surgery, I am also quite loth myself to volunteer for any surgery that is not absolutely necessary. For me, for now, my dysphoria is not compelling me to consider trans-related surgeries regardless of the consequences. I admit that I am hoping that that continues.
Both my wife & I realise that I may reach a point where the changes from HRT will induce "male-fail". At that point it is likely that I will need to consider socially transitioning my gender. I think my wife may be more prepared for that than I am. Until then, what I am doing is working, so I am not in a hurry to change it.
My journey is mine. No-one else has to live it. No-one outside my family & myself have to live with it.
When someone tells me that: "It's only a matter of time before ..." whatever ... I just leave them be and look to another person for support. I am fortunate to have many friends (cis & trans) who are willing to support me even though their journey is quite different from mine. Friends who are willing to acknowledge that what works for one may harm another.
You did request suggestions, so:
[1] Speak to a therapist who has experience with trans patients.
[2] Consider HRT. There are some here at Susan's who have found low doses of HRT sufficient to provide relief from the emotional anguish without incurring any major physical changes. Discuss that with a medical professional & with your spouse.
[3] If occasionally presenting as female alleviates your dyphoria, then find ways to accomplish this safely.
[4] Keep talking. Keep talking with your spouse. Keep talking with friends who support you. Keep talking here. Bottling things inside myself provided much fuel for the suicidal thoughts that would get at me all too often.
[5] Be honest with yourself. Really honest. Even (ie: especially) when you do not like what you find. And then talk to someone about it.
I won't go on anymore. That is more than enough.
Do keep talking to people. Get some phone numbers. There will be friends who will listen to you. They do not have to be trans, or even know anything about being trans. They just have to be willing to listen. For example: One of my greatest such "sounding boards" is a childhood friend who knows almost nothing about being trans, but he knows me very well & he is willing to listen to me for an hour or two when I need someone.
I hope you find something helpful in what i have written.
Be well,
Tessa
Just to let people know, I have a therapist, she's got plenty of understanding of trans issues, and my wife comes to a third of my sessions.
Tessa, thank you for the very helpful posr
I also started crossdressing at my age of 38.
Probably sex is still important at that age. But other things also seem to matter. Such as subsistence and education of kids.
I gave up HRT several years ago for those relationship reasons.
Nowadays I wear skirts and heels at my home and work place.
These are what I am allowed to do, given the circumstance.
My wife is very supportive of me, as long as I take care of my kids and deposit salary in our bank account every month, with occasional extra incentives. I am very masculine regarding education of my kids, which my wife wants me to be. She alone can not handle our sons.
I think she sees a man whatever I wear. My kids are the same.
barbie~~
cheerleading can be a little bit problematic. i think it's mostly about how advice is given.
advice that is presented as founded on a person's or that person's acquaintance's experience, can be helpful, even if it's not the right solution for the person who reads the advice.
advice without funding, solutions presented as the right thing to do, comments about what causes what or what a person should add or remove to their life, with no basis in the person's own experience, just won't help. it can be maddening, triggering, depressing, exhausting.
i have found my own answer to what i want, what i'm willing to sacrifice, how i want things to be in my life. for me it's easy to just skip all the irrelevant things that people might say without fully knowing my situation. or i can tell them why it won't work. but for people who are still looking for their solution, the best plan towards happiness, it can be damaging when others draw too quick conclusions and give advice without also presenting how they got to that conclusion, or why they think that solution might work.
cheering people on is good, but it's best not to do it before knowing whether they are moving in the right direction.
i'd just have a good laugh if someone told me i don't need any ffs when they saw my picture. i'd laugh even harder if they said i could use some here or there. but that's because i know it's the wrong solution, and can even easily explain why. i'm not insecure about how i look, and not asking for advice about that either. in other matters, like relationship and alternative ways of transitioning or expressing gender, it can get a whole lot more complicated, and mixing up things and giving advice about the wrong points will only make things more difficult for the person asking. rather than saying "there's your problem", ask if the person didn't say so themselves.
Everyone needs to make up their OWN MIND on important decisions in life, especially this one. Don't let anyone bully you into doing something you don't want to do. And don't fall into the trap of"Gee, these people are EXPERTS,THEY MUST KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING". THAT has gotten more people into trouble. Go with your instincts.True, they are not always 100% reliable. Sometimes what you think is the right choice is not. But if you take the time to find out all that you can, turn it over in your own mind as much as possible, you are more likely to make the right decision. Transitioning is not something to do on the spur of the moment, you need to give a GREAT DEAL of thought to it. And HRT is NOT without its risks.For one thing,MtF, taking estrogen for as little as SIX MONTHS can render you PERMANENTLY STERILE. So if you then decide that you are really male, forget about starting a family.
I'd still like to see a forum where pushing HRT is off limits. There's some people that can't for one reason or another, or maybe just want to, but still need some other coping methods. People in those situations really don't want to hear about how much better you feel because you are on HRT, maybe one day they will be on HRT, but if that day is not sometime in the near future, it's really better not to think about it.
Quote from: RobinGee on August 18, 2014, 09:47:45 PM
I don't really hate anybody. I've just gotten a lot of flack. I'm talking about people dismissing me fo not jumping on the transition train.
The fact also remains that I'm not totally sure where my gender comfort zone for myself is. I'm somewhere between gender nonconforming straight male and non-op lesbian transwoman. I might be bigender, or gender fluid or whatever.
My wife has said she'll support me no matter what. But losing a lot of what makes me male makes her very sad. She has said that if I needed to completely be female including SRS she'd end our marriage but remain friends. She's not sure how far she's wiling to go less than that. We're in a non medical exploration period and I can be as open as I choose to be with the exception of three people for specific reasons. Unfortunately we live with two of them right now.
I had to drag myself kicking and screaming across the gender spectrum to find my place on it. I went from cross-dresser to bi-gender gender fluid to woman. I never even really hated my penis. Think of it more as a skin tag then anything. I also didn't want to transition because of my SO and was terrified I would lose her. I was co-dependent.
The marvelous thing is, not transitioning made me angery and made me weak against my alcoholism and I didn't know my SO nearly left me because of my anger and alcoholism. Transition was scary for her and there were many many many tears shed by her, but we get along the best now in our 10 year relationship. Part of that success is I became willing to lose her. I stopped carrying the blame for everything going wrong in our relationship which made her have to stand up and fight for our relationship too. Transition saved my relationship.
I do tend to be an advocate for embracing transition at one's own speed. I do this because I believe that denial, restraint, compromise very reliably lead to failure. Maybe your failure won't be told by anger or alcoholism. Maybe you're not codependent despite the vibe your post gives off. I don't know. Maybe you won't fail. But as someone who was very reluctant and careful with finding her own home on the gender spectrum even though anecdotes are not evidence, I do think I have an idea of the scope of what you're up against and it is huge.
I felt dismissed. At a group therapy session I was called miserable in my relationship. On that particular walk home I called my SO to rant about, "Oh my God those people!" I think my lack of will to listen was also influenced by me more often than not feeling like an alien in the trans community. Not hating my penis, not hating my male past made and makes me feel very odd and made me feel like most of the community doesn't get me so I wasn't in a place to listen to what they had to say. I knew better after all. I went so far as to tell my therapist that we had to proceed as if HRT did not exist. In hindsight I won't say those people in my group were right, but they were on the something.
Wish you the best of luck. And I hope you find a home on the gender spectrum of that suits you soon.
I appreciate all of the great comments for me; so many resonate and I am glad to not feel alone.
It certainly throws a wrench in our decision-making when we have a spouse we love dearly who loves us! is able to see who we are, but just isn't able to completely embrace it. For me, it adds to my shame and confusion that she is such a wonderful human being, and with all she provides I am not able to just be a normal husband.
I worried that I was wasting her time and asked her that this morning. She said no, and I believe this to be true. Every day we are together, we get to see each other, parent our kids together, put money in the bank. We are sick of moving and starting new jobs, so coming out is a decision that can't be undone.
Back to the OP's sentiment, there are multiple things that define my identity:
Gender
Spouse and Family
Career and creativity
I worry that gains in happiness from addressing the first can be offset by losses in the second and third. Unemployment would make me bonkers in less than a week.
Finally, back to my relationship. My wife cannot fully embrace me as a girl. But gender-based attraction is just a part of our relationship. A friendship that spans decades, our kids, our shared experiences, our memories of relatives that are no longer with us, our values, our common interests, our trust -- these are huge. I was never the Brawny paper towel type and that is not what she married. Until she insists on that, I have hope that things will work with time and moderation.
Quote from: KindOfBlue on September 14, 2014, 09:05:15 AM
I appreciate all of the great comments for me; so many resonate and I am glad to not feel alone.
It certainly throws a wrench in our decision-making when we have a spouse we love dearly who loves us! is able to see who we are, but just isn't able to completely embrace it. For me, it adds to my shame and confusion that she is such a wonderful human being, and with all she provides I am not able to just be a normal husband.
I worried that I was wasting her time and asked her that this morning. She said no, and I believe this to be true. Every day we are together, we get to see each other, parent our kids together, put money in the bank. We are sick of moving and starting new jobs, so coming out is a decision that can't be undone.
Back to the OP's sentiment, there are multiple things that define my identity:
Gender
Spouse and Family
Career and creativity
I worry that gains in happiness from addressing the first can be offset by losses in the second and third. Unemployment would make me bonkers in less than a week.
Finally, back to my relationship. My wife cannot fully embrace me as a girl. But gender-based attraction is just a part of our relationship. A friendship that spans decades, our kids, our shared experiences, our memories of relatives that are no longer with us, our values, our common interests, our trust -- these are huge. I was never the Brawny paper towel type and that is not what she married. Until she insists on that, I have hope that things will work with time and moderation.
In any case, appearance is not so much critical. My inside and attitude makes people understand and accept me.
barbie~~
This is a great thread and really validating and supportive of those who are looking for a solution which meets their needs and those of their SO, family, etc
There are many options and approaches available to achieve the best possible outcome. It is great to see that so many have found happiness through careful, considerate and respectful exploration of their needs and those of their partner. The journey and process is confronting, fraught and emotional but success is worth pursuing. It appears to be less problematic for those who are non binary and while it may not always work, when it does work, it appears to be well worth the effort.
Safe travels
Aisla
Hi Robin,
You are perfect exactly as you are! Bask in and expand on the comfort that you experience in the love and acceptance that your wife extends to you. You are so fortunate to be married to a woman who offers you support and acceptance to the limits of her comfort zone and beyond.
The act of living and becoming is a process. It sounds to me as though you are manifesting the full measure of the perfection that is you in that you are doing all the right things. You have a loving wife. You have a trusted therapist. You're reaching out to others and asking yourself the hard questions. And you are opening yourself up fully to accept whatever path presents itself to you, bringing you maximum net happiness even as you allow yourself to experience that happiness little by little.
Be aware that the path you follow today that leads you to genuine net happiness, may be very different from the path you follow a year from now, or 10 years from now. It's in the nature of this process of living life that change and growth are constant companions and always will be. Your future self will be perfect then, just as your present self is perfect right now.
Love you wife as she loves you. Wish for her the happiness that she wishes for you. Enjoy the process of becoming as it unfolds effortlessly. And above all else, thank you, thank you, thank you for giving me this opportunity to remind myself of all that I've just reminded you of.
Hugs!
Miharu