What exactly is it, what do they remove, what does the finished result look like and the pros of cons. I've known I was trans for more than a year and I've never heard of it before.
I would like to know as well.
I don't see much specific info on it when I look it up on google. The topic usually shows up on phallo related blog posts, and is said to be the most painful thing ever... kind of frightening since it's so mysterious.
I don't know the full details as it's only something that's peaked my interest as of late too. But it pretty much is a full removal of those acky female bits. However, there are risks. I have heard it best to go for a part vaginectomy as a full can cause complications with loss of nerves and such. I wouldn't want anything to jeopardise possible sensation of my neophallus :)
So would you still need a hysterectomy as well?
A hysterectomy is taking out the womb, so I don't know what that has to do with this. I just asked because my local ftm meeting club is going to be talking about this plus hysterectomy and the two types of bottom surgery. I've always been too nervous to go but the mystery of vaginectomy has really peaked my interest.
Because those are the two procedures we hear about when bottom surgery is involved. But if you go I'm sure you'll get more information. Let us know what you hear if you go.
I am not a doctor nor do I play one on the internet, but yes, vaginectomies are performed as part of lower surgery with urethral hookup, either meta or phallo. A total hysterectomy has also been done prior to this or in conjunction with this (some surgeons do the total hysto at the same time as the whole lower surgery procedure. It would be medically impossible to have a vaginectomy without a hysto (period blood needs to drain somehow; and yes some guys on T still have bleeding issues), and can't have a vaginectomy without re-routing the urethra, because the pee needs to come out.
Quote from: bambam on August 16, 2014, 06:57:43 AM
So would you still need a hysterectomy as well?
It's a requirement. In the event of bleeding from thereabouts, with no hole there'd be nowhere for the blood to go. Surgeons who perform vaginectomy/colpectomy commonly offer hysterectomy performed at the same time, or have a second surgeon with them who performs the hysterectomy while they perform the vaginectomy and other bottom surgery.
Here's Dr. Toby Meltzer's page on the subject. http://www.tmeltzer.com/Surgeries_Procedures/ftm_surgeries/vag_hyst_ooph.html
Wait a tic...you need to move the urethra once you've had a vaginectomy? But urine doesn't go out there.
Quote from: Nygeel on August 16, 2014, 08:04:43 AM
Wait a tic...you need to move the urethra once you've had a vaginectomy? But urine doesn't go out there.
Yeah, that's the part that confuses me.
I only know that vaginectomy is pretty much mandatory to have in Finland if you want to get meta or phallo, and that it's preferably done at the same time as hysto since apparently the scar tissue left behind by hysto makes it a bit more difficult if they're done separately.
Quote from: Nygeel on August 16, 2014, 08:04:43 AM
Wait a tic...you need to move the urethra once you've had a vaginectomy? But urine doesn't go out there.
I guess that when the vagina is removed, they usually also tighten/close the surrounding area, which includes where the urethra opening used to be, so they move the urethra to another position.
In my country the surgeons close the vagina and lift the urethra in one operation as the 1st stage bottom surgery, before phalloplasty (which is the usually the 3rd stage).
Quote from: Nygeel on August 16, 2014, 08:04:43 AM
Wait a tic...you need to move the urethra once you've had a vaginectomy? But urine doesn't go out there.
The urethra is separate from the vaginia. Thus, you should be able to renove the vagina without moving the urethra. However, wouldn't it be possible to create a penis and extend the urethra without removing the vagina.
Quote from: mac1 on August 16, 2014, 12:02:16 PM
The urethra is separate from the vaginia. Thus, you should be able to renove the vagina without moving the urethra. However, wouldn't it be possible to create a penis and extend the urethra without removing the vagina.
Maybe to extend the urethra they cut into where the vagina was? So you would a big cut in it if you left it there?
Quote from: Alexthecat on August 17, 2014, 03:13:14 AM
Maybe to extend the urethra they cut into where the vagina was? So you would a big cut in it if you left it there?
They use the tissue from the vagina to extend the urethra. Beyond that I don't know much.
I went to a session at Philly Trans Health (actually two back to back) on lower surgery.
Jay is right in that it is done for both phallo or meta.
In the vaginectomy that's performed (sometimes-- not required, though it depends on the surgeon) is not *completely* taking out the vagina, they take out the mucous tissue. Some doctors might want to do this with a urethra lengthening because they can use the lining as the urethra, but there are other options. Some people do not want this procedure for a few reasons. (One may just be risk, it is associated with bleeding.)
A complete hysto is required for the reasons that a lot of people gave.
I just think the urethra moves a bit when they do they do this. I don't think it actually is "taken out and moved". From what I've seen of them, they look to be in the same place roughly.
--Jay
So it's a surgery they do when doing bottom surgery then. It being a separate procedure is still confusing. If I go to the ftm meet up I'll tell you what I find out, but your answers have made it clearer.
Yeah Elis, think of this like a Chinese menu of sorts. With lower surgery there are several different procedures that may or may not be done together. For instance:
a meta (or phallo)
urethra lenghtening
vaginectomy
mons resection
scrotoplasty
testicular implants
Most of these can be performed without the others. It's possible to get a any of these by themselves (pretty much), or at a separate time. SOme of these may need to be performed later (depends on the surgeon). I explain it here:
There is a LONG LONG disclaimer and trigger warning; myths and so on; and then definitions of everything. I haven't yet done the meta one. It's my goal for the next week. Jay
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayFxSsra0qU
Honestly, "are you going to cut out your vagina" was one of my daughter's first questions. I laughed at the time, but it would be nice to have one fewer self-lubricating orifice.
I really wish there was more info on this out there, and more research/development of techniques so it isn't so risky, etc. I don't particularly need to have a penis, but I really really need to have this done.
Quote from: violethaze on August 17, 2014, 10:50:49 PM
I really wish there was more info on this out there, and more research/development of techniques so it isn't so risky, etc. I don't particularly need to have a penis, but I really really need to have this done.
It's risk has to do with it being a very blood rich area. Further work in anything that has to with with dealing with blood rich areas is going to help. Also this IS a procedure done with cis females. The point of doing it is for vaginal cancer (actually it's a lessened procedure). Some folks will bank blood ahead of time for this.
--Jay
Let me just explain all I know on this.
A vaginectomy is not a procedure done on it's own for trans males as far as i know, it is done in conjunction with metoidioplasty or phalloplasty.
They cannot lengthen the urethra without a vaginectomy, and you cannot have a vaginectomy without some sort of urethral lengthening. No, pee does not come out of the vagina, but with a vaginectomy, they usually use the labia to form a scrotum, and if not they kinda sew it up to make it look like a male perineum (medical term for the gooch, if you don't know). It doesn't need to be lengthened to the tip of the penis but it does have to be moved out a tiny bit so its in the same place, but is past where it is sutured shut or behind the scrotum.
A hysterectomy must be done first. If there is fluids (blood, etc) that needs to be released from the uterus, it has no way out if you remove the vagina.
Lastly, not all "vaginectomies" are not actually full vaginectomy. A full vaginectomy is far more difficult and risky and is usually only done in cases of cancer. I'm not entirely sure what they usually do for trans men, but it is a lesser procedure.
I don't know how OFTEN it is done by itself, but that was asked specifically at the session I attended. They CAN do it without doing other things. Think that not all surgeons will do that though. (And some surgeons won't do vaginectomy-- and that's right it's a lesser procedure. There's actually another name for it.)
Well my understanding is that a UL can be done without it, but the other options for where the tissues come from are less advantageous. For instance you can take tissue from the inside of the cheek, but obviously that's an unpleasant place to take tissue from. It's not as good to use the inner labia, but I've heard of it being done (there is advantage in doing a UL from a tissue that is always moist).
Edit: this may be up to the surgeon.
The urethra would move a bit, that's correct, you can tell by the anatomy there.
--Jay
Quote from: mangoslayer on August 19, 2014, 01:15:33 AM
Let me just explain all I know on this.
A vaginectomy is not a procedure done on it's own for trans males as far as i know, it is done in conjunction with metoidioplasty or phalloplasty.
They cannot lengthen the urethra without a vaginectomy, and you cannot have a vaginectomy without some sort of urethral lengthening. No, pee does not come out of the vagina, but with a vaginectomy, they usually use the labia to form a scrotum, and if not they kinda sew it up to make it look like a male perineum (medical term for the gooch, if you don't know). It doesn't need to be lengthened to the tip of the penis but it does have to be moved out a tiny bit so its in the same place, but is past where it is sutured shut or behind the scrotum.
A hysterectomy must be done first. If there is fluids (blood, etc) that needs to be released from the uterus, it has no way out if you remove the vagina.
Lastly, not all "vaginectomies" are not actually full vaginectomy. A full vaginectomy is far more difficult and risky and is usually only done in cases of cancer. I'm not entirely sure what they usually do for trans men, but it is a lesser procedure.
They cannot lengthen the urethra without a vaginectomy, and you cannot have a vaginectomy without some sort of urethral lengthening.This basically sums up my understanding of the vaginectomy. In most cases, I think, it is only a considered procedure if someone were to get a meto/phallo. I believe it has to do with the potential for fistulas and risk of future UTIs if you have no lengthening or repositioning whatsoever, you are at higher risk.
Regardless, yes, a vaginectomy is one of the many procedures included in either a metoidioplasty or phalloplasty.
Quote from: mangoslayer on August 19, 2014, 01:15:33 AM
Let me just explain all I know on this.
A vaginectomy is not a procedure done on it's own for trans males as far as i know, it is done in conjunction with metoidioplasty or phalloplasty.
They cannot lengthen the urethra without a vaginectomy, and you cannot have a vaginectomy without some sort of urethral lengthening. No, pee does not come out of the vagina, but with a vaginectomy, they usually use the labia to form a scrotum, and if not they kinda sew it up to make it look like a male perineum (medical term for the gooch, if you don't know). It doesn't need to be lengthened to the tip of the penis but it does have to be moved out a tiny bit so its in the same place, but is past where it is sutured shut or behind the scrotum.
A hysterectomy must be done first. If there is fluids (blood, etc) that needs to be released from the uterus, it has no way out if you remove the vagina.
Lastly, not all "vaginectomies" are not actually full vaginectomy. A full vaginectomy is far more difficult and risky and is usually only done in cases of cancer. I'm not entirely sure what they usually do for trans men, but it is a lesser procedure.
Quote from: dylantexas90 on September 17, 2014, 06:05:56 PM
They cannot lengthen the urethra without a vaginectomy, and you cannot have a vaginectomy without some sort of urethral lengthening.
This basically sums up my understanding of the vaginectomy. In most cases, I think, it is only a considered procedure if someone were to get a meto/phallo. I believe it has to do with the potential for fistulas and risk of future UTIs if you have no lengthening or repositioning whatsoever, you are at higher risk.
Regardless, yes, a vaginectomy is one of the many procedures included in either a metoidioplasty or phalloplasty.
It may be some kind of lengthening, but I think it would be better to think of it as moving it or changing position. I think of UL as the surgery putting the urethra at the end of the penis (basically threading the urethra thru the penis (whether in a meta or phallo). But a vaginectomy can be done without putting it in this position. It can just be moved enough to make the vaginectomy possible. I've heard of it done but not saying it is particularly common. Also it does depend on the surgeon.
However, it can NOT be done without the hysto. This is just a life protecting thing because it would be less easy to exam the uterus without a vagina.
--Jay
Quote from: aleon515 on September 18, 2014, 01:10:01 PM
.............................
However, it can NOT be done without the hysto. This is just a life protecting thing because it would be less easy to exam the uterus without a vagina.
--Jay
I always thought that it would be necessary to have a hysterectomy inorder to perform a vaginectomy. Otherwise, how dould menstral blood drain from the body?
Also, I have heard of vaginectomy being performed on cis women who have no intension of transitioning. In this case lengthening of the urethra would not be required.
Trigger Warning for medical terms relating to female bodies
Actually the urinary system is very close to the vagina. I personally had a fistula happen between my left ureter and my vagina (rare hysterectomy complication)...so personally I can understand why things would need rerouted down there to avoid fistulas or worse...
Our bodies really are amazing and they will try and get rid of toxins/waste any way they can....even if it means creating new paths to places it shouldn't to get the job done.