So I met with my gender therapist today and she told me that I would never really pass due to several factors:
1 - I'm 6'2"
2 - Broad shoulders
3 - Large hands
4 - Large feet
I was pretty depressed on the drive home but did some research once I got there. It turns out my shoulders aren't actually that bad, they measured in at 17-18" and according to what I could find online genetic women average just under 17" so mine wouldn't be totally out of line. My hands aren't that huge either and I have slender fingers. My feet are a bit big, wearing about a size 12-13 men's so I'd probably have trouble finding shoes. The height I definitely can't do anything about but I don't think it would be that bad. Tall women exist, they're just rare. Plus it's not like I'd need to worry about intimidating men since I'm not interested in them anyway. Thoughts?
I would find another therapist IMMEDIATELY. Anyone who treats you like that is not on your side.
I'm in the same boat girl, but every time I feel bad about it I just remember that Maria Sharapova is 6'2 and she has gorgeous long legs because of her height. So I'm just looking forward to gorgeous long legs lol;D
21" shoulders here.
I said it to someone else and I'll say it again look at Grace Jones she is cis
Definitely look for another therapist.
Me:
1 - I'm 6'7"
2 - Shoulders 18" (small for my height)
3 - medium hands
4 - Women's Size 13W (sometimes can fit as small as women's size 11), met a cis woman who is 6'3" and has a size 15 women's. She was so frustrated with shoes that she has just started her own show business.
No problems passing whatsoever. Yes I sometimes get looks like, wow, tall woman, but it doesn't clock me be so tall.
For 10 years I put off transition because I was tall(6'1 and a half) Embrace your height and remember Amazons rock
1.5 years ago I had 20" shoulders (it meant L clothes - and not because being overweight, but anything else looked too tight). When I kept looking in the mirror, shoulders and upper arms were one of my biggest concerns (after face) - I am ~ 16.5" now, S size for andro/unisex, somewhere around M/L for female clothes. Of course, when I am standing next to petite, fragile cis-woman, I see how bigger I am and there is limit how much smaller one can get, but hey, when I am staring at my male friends, they seem so large in comparison (and they used to be same or even smaller build-wise...). So, dont worry that much about shoulders and muscle mass, in due time it will melt away and if it works for You - You can always copy the fashion style from those tall, athletic amazon-type females.
I'm 6'1", and rather big built, big hands feet etc. But I just compared my hands to my moms, and hers is just slightly longer...
Hormones seem to be making them a lil bit thinner.
I suggest finding a new therapist ASAP, before s/he causes more damage...
Mentioning your size is not a issue, but telling you you would never pas because of it is a big nono.
I don't think height is any barrier to passing. Also, it can sometimes help with the size of your hands and feet, it's more about proportion.
I know some very tall trans women who get by just fine. There's always limit to things, I've seen some ladies who's bodies were just too masculine to ever pass, but then it comes down to self confidence and how much you care about others perceptions of you. They looked happy.
Was your therapist saying you shouldn't transition because of these things or was she saying that you should be prepared that you might not pass and seeing if you could cope with that? If it's the former then definitely get a new therapist!
Oh and you're shoulders are NOT broad, I'm 5'7", with 17" shoulders, and whilst for a girl they may be a touch broad, no one has ever said I have broad shoulders.
I am 5'11" and 18 inch shoulders, so do not stress. Once we get on HRT some of that muscle will fall of and -fingers crossed- an inch or two of mass around the skeleton structure.
6'2" here, also thought I was too tall and large-built to ever make it, and yet now I'm happily post-transition and stealth to a majority of the people I work with.
Never say never. :)
6'3", 20" shoulders...seriously no one looks at me.
HRT will probably drop the muscle bulk from your shoulders in time anyway.
Your counsellor should be informed that passing is not just about looks. She needs to get with the program.
Quote from: Squircle on August 25, 2014, 03:16:02 AM
Was your therapist saying you shouldn't transition because of these things or was she saying that you should be prepared that you might not pass and seeing if you could cope with that? If it's the former then definitely get a new therapist!
It was the latter. I think the point of the conversation was for me to consider the possibility that I wouldn't pass although I think she was a bit too doom and gloom about it. She's always been very clear that transitioning or not is ultimately my choice. Other than this topic she's been really good for me so I'm not going to find a new therapist just yet. Thank you all for the reassurances.
You should read Carrie's thread about her struggles. She felt she was too tall and had a build that would never pass. She struggled much from her perceptions of herself, even when she looked very pretty and passable to everyone else. Look at her avatar, she is gorgeous.
Im 1.77 cm, I think thats 5'8" ,and Im often the tallest girl I see all day , one of the reasons people stare at me and doubt my gender is this.
Here is the deal though , I live in greece , people are short here, in the summer a lot of tourists come from countries like germany ,sweden etc and these girls are really tall like 1.85 cm tall , its cool,very cool.
So yeah , height in your case wont be a factor to passing and since you dont have broad shoulders if other areas are ok I think you should be fine.
you cant really know unless you try to transition
Quote from: LordKAT on August 25, 2014, 08:39:02 AM
You should read Carrie's thread about her struggles. She felt she was too tall and had a build that would never pass. She struggled much from her perceptions of herself, even when she looked very pretty and passable to everyone else. Look at her avatar, she is gorgeous.
Can someone point me to that thread? Apparently I'm not allowed to view Carrie's profile yet...
I used to be 6'3" in my younger days, but more like 6"2" now. The discs are getting thinner. Yeah, got the whole works, large hands, big feet, tall height, making it more challenging to pass.
Typo, of course, hit the wrong key, as always, lol, 6'2" of course. I think 6"2" would be a little too short. :)
The reality is that there are women and girls of all shapes and sizes. There are plenty of factors that may influence our passing ability and no lack of advice on the subject, sigh.
The height would not be an issue, I've heard HRT makes your slightly shorter.
I am 6'3". My shoulders are 19 inches.
Recently when I went into the library I saw a really tall woman at the desk. I put her at 6'2" or 6'3". I immediately began wondering what I should say to her:
(1) Are you really a cisgender woman? Sure you're not trans?
(2) Do you really feel like a valid woman, given that you're so abnormal?
(3) Hi! I just wanted you to know that you have all my sympathy for your affliction.
(4) Or perhaps nothing at all.
Some girls are tall. No big deal. Being tall won't prevent you from passing.
I guess I must be extremely "lucky" to be 5'7". Who knew that after a lifetime of my height being a disadvantage that it would now be an advantage.
Quote from: Foxglove on August 25, 2014, 01:54:04 PM
Some girls are tall. No big deal. Being tall won't prevent you from passing.
A lot of tall cis girls are attractive, at least in my opinion. They don't have to be stick thin either. It's all about proportion.
I am 6ft or there about. I just got back from holiday in the Netherlands where there are a load of tall, big boned cis women. My partner is 5ft8 and said that she felt like a dwarf. What I mean by this is that Dutch women are tall and they are a common occurrence. So much so that clothes shopping for me is easy over there. Do not sweat about the size lottery that we trans women seem so obsessed with as not all women come from the same mold. Just tell your therapist that you have Dutch lineage. Just before you drop them to find one that knows what they are talking about.
Nikki
That was a pretty brutal assessment. I won't vote for finding another therapist *only* b/c you say you're otherwise happy with her, but wow was that harsh.
I started HRT with about 18" shoulders, 16" wrists, big-looking hands, and size 11 [women's] feet. I've since gone down to 14" shoulders, lost a shoe size and a half, measure an inch shorter in height, have 13" wrists and much smaller-looking hands. Never underestimate what losing muscle mass will do, and I didn't even know it was possible to HAVE wrist and hand muscles to that degree! Not to mention that it's all about proportion; since I now also got bigger in the boobs, hips, butt, and belly, there are new feminine features to distract from the rest. You stand a good chance of ending up, as others have said, looking like a very pretty tall woman.
(My wife also has 22" shoulders, and has never even had it commented on.)
Quote from: Jenna Marie on August 25, 2014, 06:54:25 PM
I started HRT with about 18" shoulders, 16" wrists, big-looking hands, and size 11 [women's] feet. I've since gone down to 14" shoulders, lost a shoe size and a half, measure an inch shorter in height, have 13" wrists and much smaller-looking hands. Never underestimate what losing muscle mass will do, and I didn't even know it was possible to HAVE wrist and hand muscles to that degree! Not to mention that it's all about proportion; since I now also got bigger in the boobs, hips, butt, and belly, there are new feminine features to distract from the rest. You stand a good chance of ending up, as others have said, looking like a very pretty tall woman.
(My wife also has 22" shoulders, and has never even had it commented on.)
Jenna, that was very encouraging to many of us. There will be much hope for us in the future knowing what most likely will happen down the road! Thank you for that wonderful post!!!!
Hugs,
Stephanie
I'm 6'0" with small feet (women's 10), but with the biggest hands you've ever seem. I'd rather have big feet than hands. My Shoulders are about 17.5"-18", but I've read the average females shoulder width is more like 17.5". I still feel like there huge, but apparently not really. I already fit into women's medium shirts perfectly fine, but they still bother me. I think that's natural. The right kinds of tops will make your shoulders look thinner. Being taller, taller than your average female, you would normally have broader shoulders anyway.
I've said this before to other people too, and I've been telling myself the same. It's almost an unwritten rule that to be a runway model you have to be from 5'9" - 6'1". And their usually 5'10" or taller. Have you ever seen Robyn Lawley? She's 6'2" and her measurements are actually bigger than my own and she's totally gorgeous.
Quote from: ImagineKate on August 25, 2014, 02:23:55 PM
I guess I must be extremely "lucky" to be 5'7". Who knew that after a lifetime of my height being a disadvantage that it would now be an advantage.
I'm 5'4 and had a huge height disadvantage before transition. I have come to the same realization as you lol
Five foot nine. Small hands. Crap throwing arm.
Could be worse.
Well, I was about to say I'm 6'1", as that's how tall I've reported myself as for 25 years. But just for kicks I decided to measure myself and I'm at 6'0" (I checked 3 times to be sure). Not sure when I lost that inch but I'm not complaining :)
I've never felt bothered by my height though. I've known several cis-girls that are my height or taller so why should I stress over it?
My size 11 feet bug me though. Almost always the cute shoes I want are never in that size!
Is you're therapist is a gender therapist?
5'10", thick hands, curvy, size 12-14 depending on the heel.
I embrace my height, most women are jealous of my heights and say I have the best legs they've ever seen.
Women come in all shapes and sizes. If my therapist told me I'd never pass, I'd say, "Bite me!' and find a new one.
I'm 6'2", big hands, big feet and have a build that would make half of the NFL envious. BFD.
The fact is that with an ass like mine, I couldn't really pass as male anymore.
Quote from: Jill F on September 03, 2014, 08:30:36 PM
The fact is that with an ass like mine, I couldn't really pass as male anymore.
Lol Jill, your a riot!;D
One of my favorite British comedy actresses, Miranda Hart is 6'1", large boned and very filled out. Yet she is quite successful and I doubt anyone's every told her to stop being a women because of her size. I've got a friend who thinks of her as a sex symbol. Indeed, on her sitcom she regularly gets into romantic situations with various good looking guys.
I think Miranda is one of the best examples of the fact that we all have find a way to make the best of what we get in life. She may not be TG, but I think becoming a successful TV star is probably much more difficult for a large women.
I met many women (both cis and trans) who were tall (I'm talking 6' or more) and stunning. Nobody ever second-guessed their gender, but usually people just found them stunning and feminine.
I am myself taller than most women, but I don't stand out much.
My 6'5" trans sister and I, 5'11' got challenged yesterday in a restroom. Was it our height? Nope, she hadn't even seen us. I assume it was our not so passable voices.
If we are not too tall then it might be something else we are too little or too much of. I aint going back into the closet for no one and will remain out and proud of the diversity we represent.
We're here, we're queer, get used to it!
Quote from: Tessa James on September 04, 2014, 11:37:35 AM
My 6'5" trans sister and I, 5'11' got challenged yesterday in a restroom. Was it our height? Nope, she hadn't even seen us. I assume it was our not so passable voices.
I'm 6'7" and have never had a problem in the restroom. I do have a decent voice, so that helps. I've gotten a few double takes with a comment on how tall I am, followed by a friendly chat. I've had a few tall cis-women ask me where I shop for tall clothes.
Tall women are extremely hot! I'm just sayin'.
Quote from: Miharu Barbie on September 04, 2014, 01:23:36 PM
Tall women are extremely hot! I'm just sayin'.
Yes! Yes they are! ^^
I had to look in a conversion table to understand how tall is 6' 2", cuz in Brazil we use the metric system. So now I know i'm 5' 8" =)
But look at Famke Janssen! She is 6'! And she is gorgeous! So is Uma Thurman!
I'm just saying that Height doesnt make you less feminine! But will probably make you hot! =)
Well I am 5'9" and met one helluva a sexy woman that towered over me. She was 6'2" and wore a size 12 female. Everything about her was way bigger than me. I tried on her shoes and they were to big and she actually laughed at me. Especially with the old saying about guys and big feet. But she had no complaints how I talked though. ;) :embarrassed: Even though she smile and laughed a little when she saw it. But like I said, I can talk really good. :embarrassed:
But women come in all shapes and sizes. Men too. Self confidence is way more sexy than genatalia. Or to me it is anyway. So if I met a 5'0" guy, as long as he had a 10' tall attitude I would be hooked.
Yea, this too tall/hands and feet too big/shoulders too wide business sounds like a load of cow manure to me. Here's an article listing actresses 5'10" and above. Some of them might surprise you, because you probably don't even think twice about their height when you see them. I think most people are generally the same way--very few people are going to be sizing you up and absorbing the fine details of your proportions. Trust me, height really isn't that big a deal :)
http://www.imdb.com/list/ls005144661/
Quote from: riversong on September 04, 2014, 07:09:30 PM
Yea, this too tall/hands and feet too big/shoulders too wide business sounds like a load of cow manure to me. Here's an article listing actresses 5'10" and above. Some of them might surprise you, because you probably don't even think twice about their height when you see them. I think most people are generally the same way--very few people are going to be sizing you up and absorbing the fine details of your proportions. Trust me, height really isn't that big a deal :)
http://www.imdb.com/list/ls005144661/
Thanx riversong, now if I try to be a guy it's gonna' be harder than ever. :(
hey Jaime006! Since you're measuring at 17-18" odds are you're probably gonna lose bit in that measurement once you start hrt, even if you're skinny there is muscle mass in that area that will fade away which will reduce your "manly shoulders look" into a more slim feminine rounder shape.
I'm 5'10 and had pretty bulky wide shoulders when I was prehrt. Passing during those days was really tough cause of those shoulders but once I started hrt after about a year and a half it was mostly gone and I now measure at 17" just about but I think I was 20" something prehrt.
Don't fret the height, shoulders, or hands and feet.
My cis girlfriend is 6 foot barefoot, 19 inch shoulders, her shoes are a men's 11, and her hands dwarf mine. I call it having presence.
Grrr..get away from that beech.
What i hate about this site and in general is all the pass this and that...what choice do ant of us have? We have to change or die so why be so harsh on those of us with the toughest journey. Sure as all women we'd like to change this or that but have to play our hands...get it hands :\
Get away from the evil therapist before she kills you.
Remember you get tall woman too...
I am 6'3 and 1/2". I am also close to 60. The advice I get from people sometimes is to dress conservatively and not to wear heels if I want to "blend in". But I have utterly given up on the notion that I will ever really blend in. And frankly, I have been invisible all my life, and I just don't want do that anymore. So I am going to dress like how I feel inside, and have fun with it. At the moment, that is sort of along the lines of an aging rock groupie. We Transgender Girls only get to go through puberty twice, so I intend to make the second time a lot more fun. My goal is to be the kewlest chick on the north side of sixty, T or CIS. We will see how far I get.
Love the replies ladies! I dont know my shoulder size at the moment. Though at just 5,9 I feel like I tower over most other girls here in Kansas. But I do feel for those with a size 11 or larger shoe (like my size 11 feet). There is just nothing to choose from :embarrassed: But Thanks to HRT I can now stuff my feet into a size 10 and enjoy some cool shoes with extra foot pains. lol :D
Tall women are sexy and above the rest. Work with what you got and you'll always look good. :laugh: