Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hi y'all

Cindy recently spoke at the ANZSOM conference to dispel some gross simplifications about our place in society and the working world.  We could be lawyers, housewives, students, sex workers...  It doesn't matter really, but let's have a totally unscientific poll to see where we are working. 

Your selection is anonymous unless you wish to post a comment.

Let's year from ya!

Hugs
Julia, engineer and wannabe chef  :D

I put "Student"

Tho I hope to one day be categorized as "Entertainment Leisure" (An Author in the entertainment business.. Not some big shot singer or something, just an author. xD)

Unless an author would be categorized as media? Not sure. Correct me if I'm wrong.

iiMTF

I am retired since 2008.  I did realize a dream job.   I thought as a kid I would magically become a mom with babies so this was as close as I could get.  I was a CRNA, nurse anesthetist, for 33 years and specialized in labor and delivery.  Reducing pain and fear while empowering women was very rewarding but happened at 2-3 in the morning way too often.  Babies have no respect for our sleep ;) ;D

In retirement I am involved politically and socially as a community activist.   

Financial industry, looking to be promoted to house wife :icon_female:

Quote from: iiMTF on September 01, 2014, 04:25:32 PM
I put "Student"

Tho I hope to one day be categorized as "Entertainment Leisure" (An Author in the entertainment business.. Not some big shot singer or something, just an author. xD)

Unless an author would be categorized as media? Not sure. Correct me if I'm wrong.

iiMTF

Hello iiMTF - "entertainment and leisure" is probably closer, but I realise that this poll is quite a blunt instrument... you always end up missing a category, even after adding in the one that's missing :D

I've been a nurse for eight years. I'm a student helicopter pilot and may look for work as a pilot down the line.

I work in general manufacturing, I'm a technical salaried worker and am out fully now.

I am an engineer but I also work in the energy sector... I marked engineer because if I change jobs I would still be one. I am out at work with no issues, although I haven't gone full time yet. Also I work for a start-up.

I am officially retired now(2007) although I had a disability retirement in 1988.

When working I was a computer programmer analyist for an IBM system 36 computer in the metal working business.

I was one of the few people working that I loved my job as others just worked to survive.

I would kid my boss that I should pay him to work there(loved programming).

I was also in stealth mode as no one knew that I'm TG(worked as a man)

I put "retired/don't need to work".  My wife is an attorney and whatever I'd make would be peanuts taxed at the highest possible rate.

I used to be a top-tier guitar technician/luthier.  Now I'm a housewife.

I'm a freelance writer, the bulk of which is spent writing for news outlets (or pseudo-news... the few months I spent working for the Onion were fantastic), though I do a great deal of blogs, ghost-writing, and advertising, too. I also write as a hobby, and every once in a while I get the chance to sell some of my own stories, too.

This is supplemented by a lot of entry-level customer service type things from time to time, like the cashiering I'm doing for a grocery store right now.

Retired, previously worked in a residential lock down drug treatment facility, now full time gardening.  Dani

Unemployed since 2011... Most people in this country are in a similar situation... Honestly it's not strange to see families who used to have two cars and a middle class apartment now living in the street or squats and dumpster diving to eat... If we add how backwards Spain is socially it's rather clear that I have little to no chance of getting a job.

I have a career in telecommunications engineering and am currently studying veterinary medicine.

I wouldn't lie if I said that I'm considering 'other' jobs ... Tough times..

cna hopefully one day rn :)

Veterinarian here, so I ticked the medical box.

You are missing a big sector - Banking and Finance. I'm one of those dreaded Investment Bankers

Quote from: warlockmaker on September 01, 2014, 09:28:32 PM
You are missing a big sector - Banking and Finance. I'm one of those dreaded Investment Bankers

Category 2: Accounting and Financing

iiMTF

Government, operations.  :o sounds scary, it's not, but neither is it public.

Quote from: Missy~rmdlm on September 01, 2014, 09:43:28 PM
Government, operations.  :o sounds scary, it's not, but neither is it public.

Everything involving the government is scary. They can make you disappear in an instant.

And... Dare I say... Tacos.

iiMTF

Quote from: iiMTF on September 01, 2014, 09:50:49 PM
Everything involving the government is scary. They can make you disappear in an instant.

And... Dare I say... Tacos.

iiMTF

I'm from the government. I'm here to help.

I actually am a federal employee and being a nurse I am here to help. :D

  Retail, a terrible environment to have to come-out in because it's so damned public and you're not supposed to upset anyones' sensibilities.  On the up-side it's a large company with a drug plan that's paying for most of my HRT.  They've also been quite accommodating of the numerous appointments I have to attend related to my transition.  I'm not out yet beyond Management and they are being fair with my privacy.

  I guess overall I'm comfortable with this job at the moment, but given a choice I'd go back to doing much more sophisticated stuff like I used to.  Circumstances landed me here a while back and I'm sticking with it for the security.  I actually do get paid quite well for what I do and I get three weeks of vacation per year.

Information Technology, AKA babysitting a bunch of ->-bleeped-<-s. I hate it with every fiber of my being. It is soul crushing, and the commutes to and from work are goddamn torment. I got into it over 15 years ago and it's had ups and downs. Ultimately, I'm stuck in a career in which I hate and can't do anything about it.

Quote from: iiMTF on September 01, 2014, 09:50:49 PM
Everything involving the government is scary. They can make you disappear in an instant.

Damned Feds! ;)

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F_alpptb7H7CQ%2FSwWjr3tUmPI%2FAAAAAAAABSo%2F6Kl9dpcBOg4%2Fs1600%2Fdarkow.gif&hash=a1f3866b7c46dc45015898fdaf4ef73a5260086a)

Airline pilot - Currently a captain on the Airbus A-320.

Type rated and ATP on the Boeing 747, Boeing 777, Boeing 727, Airbus A320, DHC-7, ATR-42, ATR-72.

Commercial license - single engine and gliders.

HRT 4.5 months now. Notified the FAA of my gender dysphoria and hormone treatment July 2014, new Class I medical obtained. Not out to the airline yet, but soon!

Most important job - journalism student.  I still present as male at school, but I have been open in the classes within my major.  The faculty in my department are on board.  I am changing my name and presentation between this semester and next.

On campus I am just starting to do volunteer work at the LGBT resource center. 

To make end meet I wait tables part time at a chain restaurant.  There's been no issues with my androgynous appearance so far (4 months HRT), but I am still expecting to get fired when they find out.  Therefore, I'm trying my best to not let anyone there find out until as close to me switching to full time in Jan as possible.

Quote from: LaurenL on September 01, 2014, 10:11:37 PM
Airline pilot - Currently a captain on the Airbus A-320.

Type rated and ATP on the Boeing 747, Boeing 777, Boeing 727, Airbus A320, DHC-7, ATR-42, ATR-72.

Wow, Lauren!  That is SOOO cool.  ;)

By comparison my job in finance is really boring.  I just moved to Seattle (a very trans-friendly city), and I'm hoping to transition on the job in a year or so. 

Quote from: katiej on September 01, 2014, 10:52:19 PM
Wow, Lauren!  That is SOOO cool.  ;)

By comparison my job in finance is really boring.  I just moved to Seattle (a very trans-friendly city), and I'm hoping to transition on the job in a year or so.

Seattle is trans friendly? Since when was a trans friendly city a thing?

iiMTF

I was torn between clicking "legal" or "public sector" and went with former as it is more specific. In reality it is more "civil service/public administration (AKA trouble shooting :D)".

Quote from: iiMTF on September 01, 2014, 11:06:11 PM
Since when was a trans friendly city a thing?

Oh, it's definitely a thing.  I'm overgeneralizing here, but for the most part small towns in rural areas in the "Bible Belt" are going to be less accepting than big cities on the West Coast.  My experience is limited to the US and Mexico...each country would be different.

People who actually know you are somewhat of a wildcard no matter where you live.  But in general, cities that tend to be more educated/worldly are more accommodating of LGBT people.

I'm in food service, working in a dining hall on a college campus, I've had a few episodes of dysphoria seeing all the college girls running around in everything from tshirts and shorts to their sunday best. Having about a thousand of them traipse through each day gives me a chance to study their movements and actions.  I have been testing the waters so to speak about the feelings of the company about transgendered employees, I think they will be more open than some places due to the fact that we have about a dozen lesbian and gay workers there already and there have been no major issues, but I'm still being cautious.

On another note I knew a girl who worked for Target about 10 years ago who transitioned while employed there and they were very accommodating to her, whether it was fear of lawsuits or just plain decency I am still not sure but she did very well there.

Inside the beltway in Houston, Texas, is actually pretty good but outside in the suburbs can be bad.

As for work, I do software development for a geophysical services firm that sells geologic data to oil and gas companies. We write software to extract, transform, and load (ETL) to target data stores, since it seems every geophysical application vendor stores their data differently from the next, and to get it to the geologists and geophysicists, we have to reformat it for each application.

Had to choose other as my profession was not listed I'm in offshore oil and gas.

Kaylee

Quote from: Kayleewantsout on September 02, 2014, 02:14:09 AM
Had to choose other as my profession was not listed I'm in offshore oil and gas.

Kaylee

Energy?

Retail for me, although I am also a student again now, and at the end of the degree will be changing careers to medical...studying a psychology degree, and after I finish the degree, and the extra study that goes with it to become a fully qualified psychologist, I actually aim to be a gender specialist psychologist...one of only a very minor few who will have lived through what everyone coming to see me will be struggling with.

As for the retail job...not out to work, although I have outed myself to a workmate yesterday...went ok, he was surprised, but supportive...but unlike some people, I don't have to worry too much about the reactions of customers, since I work in a store right in the heart of the "alternative lifestyle" area of Sydney...and I am fortunate that my doctor is just up the road, so I don't have to go too far for appointments and such.

Non-government community not-for-profit organisation, doing website and publications etc. I could probably get paid a $#*& load more working in government or private or even freelance but I doubt I'd enjoy the work anywhere near as much. At least this way I feel like I'm making a positive contribution to society since we advocate to improve government policy that affects disadvantaged people.

No bodys put this one here.. I am a management consultant

Quote from: ssneha23 on September 02, 2014, 04:35:40 AM
No bodys put this one here.. I am a management consultant

I you do your MC work predominantly for a particular sector, maybe you can add yourself there?

Hi Everyone

The results so far confirm my feelings that we are indeed an incredibly diverse bunch, and your stories are grrrrrreat, so PLEASE POST THEM for all of us to read.

When we get a say 100-200 responses we'll have enough to maybe draw some interesting conclusions and ask some more questions.

Keep them dawgies rollin'.... :D

Quote from: ♡ Emily ♡ on September 02, 2014, 02:20:46 AM
Energy?

I work as a able seaman/integrated Rating on anchor handling vessels in Australia

Most jobs involve oil and gas projects

With my trade I can do anything from laying deep sea gas pipelines to working on cargo ships

Kaylee

I am a MHSW "Mental Health Social Worker", which consists of case management and biopsychosocial therapy with anxiety, depressive disorders, schizophrenia and schizoaffective disorder. I only started in a new job two days ago working predominantly with adolescents and the department of education working 18 hours a week.

Retail..

Together with my roommate we run a clothing store, which also makes dresses.

Retail, I'm the manager at a convenience store and its a pain in the ass.

I suppose I'm in the "medicine, healthcare, pharmacy" category. I'm a carer for my grandmother, basically.

Well I had to put other but almost put sex worker or industry. Does trying to be a sexy musician count as sex worker? ??? But seriously I own several trucks that make the money and the music part is just a hobby more or less right now.

My 2 cents' worth on my sector...

I've done a few IT company startups (exhilarating and stressssssful), I'm now in a multinational telecom company, working on product innovation and business development.

The same day I went full time and arrived at work as a woman, my direct manager called me and said I needed to leave product innovation and work almost fully on business development and customer engagement.   I guess that's a great vote of confidence, but aaaaaaargh, it's thrust me right into the lion's den!!

So I'm the girl with the husky voice at customer meetings...  :D

Quote from: Jess42 on September 02, 2014, 11:25:13 AM
Well I had to put other but almost put sex worker or industry. Does trying to be a sexy musician count as sex worker? ??? But seriously I own several trucks that make the money and the music part is just a hobby more or less right now.

I'd be willing to allow you a second vote to get you into the sex(y) category  ;D

Yup, I  had to go with "Other".  I've been working for the Catholic Church for the past 8 years, which would obviously be classified as "Religion/Church".  Specifically I work for an international order of Catholic nuns.  The sisters take amazing care of me. 

As a queer, trans woman of color in a same-sex marriage, there are times that working for nuns challenges my sense of outrage.  But for the most part, the sisters devote their energy and resources towards issues of social justice and empowerment of vulnerable women and children worldwide.  And that's something I can believe in... I appreciate being a part of the sisters' mission.

Quote from: Julia-Madrid on September 02, 2014, 11:36:08 AM
My 2 cents' worth on my sector...

I've done a few IT company startups (exhilarating and stressssssful), I'm now in a multinational telecom company, working on product innovation and business development.

The same day I went full time and arrived at work as a woman, my direct manager called me and said I needed to leave product innovation and work almost fully on business development and customer engagement.   I guess that's a great vote of confidence, but aaaaaaargh, it's thrust me right into the lion's den!!

So I'm the girl with the husky voice at customer meetings...  :D

I'm curious... If you've read my previous post you probably have an idea of my situation... I have a telecommunications engineering degree and live in Madrid, and yes I've never ever had much luck at getting interviews or in them for the matter either due to being trans... Any advice? Seeing as you aparently live here, and work in the sector I am qualified in. (Well, I'm studying to be a vet, but that'll be later on in life...)  If you know of a good ETT that won't discriminate I'd appreciate it.

I put other because I work 2 jobs, one is doing trailer repairs,welding, fabrication etc (part time self employed). I was an RV tech/trailer mechanic for 19 years. The other is a second shift forklift operator at a warehouse.

I'm a student. I have always been drawn to working with people, and for a long time, I thought that I wanted to get a MSW and work with marginalized groups. I've always had a micro-level focus. However, as my classes went on and on, I grew unhappy with the level of challenge. I was getting the best grades in all of my classes. It was boring. Deciding I needed something more academically rigorous, I reevaluated my plans and chose to go into medicine. I'm happy to be a biochemistry major. :)

Quote from: Julia-Madrid on September 02, 2014, 11:36:48 AM
I'd be willing to allow you a second vote to get you into the sex(y) category  ;D

Well there's not much difference between pimping it out with a guitar at a gig if you are trying to entertain, than dancing on a pole or whatever. Just people don't put dollars in my panties, but they do buy me drinks quite a bit. It's just a shame I don't drink too much until after the gig. If we ever get another gig with two "cubs" that are stone stiffed scared.

Research Scientist. (Medicine, healthcare, pharmacy)
I work for a small specialist company that dose both R&D, Prototyping, and Manufacturing for big pharmaceutical companies, who in reality mostly do marketing.

Worked on several projects so far.
A swab test for Cystic Fibrosis sufferers that detects potentially dangerous lung infections.
Blood Test that can preemptively detect a heart attack.
Next Generation allergy tests, Better than anything on the market thus far if our data is accurate.

When i was working to finish out my career, i finished it up pre op female full time stealth.

Project management in the construction field.

No more men dominated then the construction field.

Women are treated as objects 100%.

I've actually held a wide enough variety of income sources (food service, desk work, delivery, performing, coaching) that I can now say I've worked some job or another at every hour of the day.  :o

These days I'm a fine-arts student at a top-tier university.

Quote from: iiMTF on September 01, 2014, 09:50:49 PM
Everything involving the government is scary. They can make you disappear in an instant.

And... Dare I say... Tacos.

iiMTF

Another Fed here, but not from the IRS or NSA. I am in a very non-scary science field :angel:. For lack of specific category for my job, the "public sector" seems to fit best.

Quote from: Violet Bloom on September 01, 2014, 10:04:44 PM
Damned Feds! ;)

;D

Pretty much everytime I post in a work related thread, it's negative and bitchy.  :P  Which is easy because the IT industry for me has become a dead end. I hope to get into the medical field soon, so I can make a positive difference. Either that or jounalism or something to do with writing.

I'm pretty much one of those boring law students :P
although I'm doubling it with a journalism degree as well.

I'm going to be so popular, I mean a Lawyer and a journalist, i probably shouldn't give people another reason to hate me, let alone 2 :P

I'm a broadcast engineer.

Quote from: Julia-Madrid on September 02, 2014, 11:36:48 AM
I'd be willing to allow you a second vote to get you into the sex(y) category  ;D

Ok. When? We at least need one there and I'll bite the bullet. I ain't too proud to play Devil's advocate. ;)

Mobile Developer, Android + Apple
so... software; looks like we're well represented!

Quote from: Handy on September 02, 2014, 10:51:43 PM
Mobile Developer, Android + Apple
so... software; looks like we're well represented!

Yes Handy... I wonder why software is so well represented...?  I've got some theories about this, but I'd really be interested in your view on this.

Anyone else want to venture reasons why a couple of sectors are  skewed towards us?

xxx
J

It seems like a lot of the jobs represented here (engineering, software/web development, finance, etc) are task based and don't require us to deal with the public.

Quote from: Julia-Madrid on September 03, 2014, 02:19:19 AM
Anyone else want to venture reasons why a couple of sectors are  skewed towards us?

xxx
J

Cause we are clever, smart and intelligent? And extremely modest and humble too, of course.

Quote from: Julia-Madrid on September 03, 2014, 02:19:19 AM
Yes Handy... I wonder why software is so well represented...?  I've got some theories about this, but I'd really be interested in your view on this.

Anyone else want to venture reasons why a couple of sectors are  skewed towards us?

xxx
J

Like Emily said, software 'cause we're so clever, smart and intelligent, but also healthcare 'cause we're so compassionate. ;)

But seriously, I think we're probably a more compassionate group, because of all the hardship we've went through.

I was working in a call center for an oral surgeons office until I got fired. Not sure why I was fired in March, but I think it's because I was making a lot of mental mistakes. I worked there for 8 months. No idea if anybody knew I was trans, nobody ever made mention of it.

Now it would be impossible for me to find a job. I'm probably going to need to file for disability. They found a frontal lobe lesion that they believe is demyelinating and it's messing me up pretty bad.

IT, and hating it.

I was originally meant to be a System Administrator, but ended in the helpdesk / support guetto. One month ago I was professionally recycled into Software testing. The company still does IT work, but nowadays is more oriented towards development and testers are scarce.

I'd like to study psychology and start college, even if it is for myself, but This line of work requires me to keep studying so I get the certifications I need. So pretty much I'm chained to IT unless I want to start again and forget about surgeries for 5-10 years.



I've considered doing sex work on weekends as an extra to speed up surgeries once I have the FFS and BA done, but if I want to be a part-time student, I can only do one job.

Heh, I've always said that I'd rather have an ->-bleeped-<- in my ->-bleeped-<- than an ->-bleeped-<- on the phone. I hate helpdesk with all my soul. I have my reservations and fears about escort work, but porn industry? I'd totally do it, no second thoughts. It would make feel of my dick, working its way to SRS instead of sitting there making my life miserable.

I am a dentistry student by day and work at a hospital by night! Almost finishing my studies! I'm like Batgirl, saving people by night! =)

I am electrical engineer and programmer. I have chosen software, because it is what I am doing more now.

I'm a student and full time employee at a behavioral residential treatment center for teens. I work as ther IT guru doing website, database, helpdesk and developer. I'm hoping that when I come out they will be lenient since I've built this department up and they are all therapists and social workers.

Quote from: katiej on September 03, 2014, 02:49:18 AM
It seems like a lot of the jobs represented here (engineering, software/web development, finance, etc) are task based and don't require us to deal with the public.

Bingo! Most of the time it's me, my machine, and my work. My interactions with other human beings are limited to meetings that are completely technically oriented. And that's a major factor, at least for me personally.

I choose "Other."
International Government, Database Administrator/Programmer
It's not "Software" and not really "Public Sector"

Quote from: katiej on September 03, 2014, 02:49:18 AM
It seems like a lot of the jobs represented here (engineering, software/web development, finance, etc) are task based and don't require us to deal with the public.

I don't think its task based, although that's an advantage. These jobs tend to need a high level of education and you can't suddenly decide you want to hide from people so you'll become a software engineer - by the time you realize that its probably too late.

But what type of kids tend to be good students? That's probably a good question...

Analytical mindsets really prevail in the IT field! :-) plus we are problem solvers so we constantly work on any problem until its solved. Thus we had a problem and now its corrected :-P

Quote from: lori_is_here on September 03, 2014, 11:55:47 AM
Analytical mindsets really prevail in the IT field! :-) plus we are problem solvers so we constantly work on any problem until its solved. Thus we had a problem and now its corrected :-P

That's one of the best I've seen so far, Lori.

I think there's another, and it's complimentary:  those of us in sofware really know how to use the Internet to find information.  So we rapidly find the right information about dysphoria, support, HRT, SRS and what-have-you.

Certainly, without the online resources we have now, I would never have transitioned. I may not even have had the language to describe who/what I am!!

Quote from: ♡ Emily ♡ on September 03, 2014, 03:46:01 AM
Cause we are clever, smart and intelligent? And extremely modest and humble too, of course.

Exactly!!!   

I work as a Federal Police Officer, so for the government. Not really the best career field or easiest place to transition.

Quote from: KaylaMadison on September 03, 2014, 12:20:57 PM
I work as a Federal Police Officer, so for the government. Not really the best career field or easiest place to transition.

Probably it is rather challening, although we have an English sister on the forum called Anna who is also transitioning on the job in the police force.

Quote from: Julia-Madrid on September 03, 2014, 12:23:46 PM
Probably it is rather challening, although we have an English sister on the forum called Anna who is also transitioning on the job in the police force.

Good news is that a lot of local departments are looking for LGBT officers to interface with the communities they police. I work for the VA and we have a very strongly supportive policy for LGBT employees. Gender identity is specifically mentioned in our policy.

Quote from: Wynternight on September 03, 2014, 12:30:18 PM
Good news is that a lot of local departments are looking for LGBT officers to interface with the communities they police. I work for the VA and we have a very strongly supportive policy for LGBT employees. Gender identity is specifically mentioned in our policy.

There are policies in place for my job as well about discrimination. OPM has a strict policy about discrimination due to gender identity, and even working under the department of the army, they have EEO policies in place that are supposed to prevent it. The mindset unfortunately is a long ways from being altered as alot of these policies are pretty new.

Quote from: Julia (Apple-Whatever) on September 03, 2014, 05:31:13 AM
I've considered doing sex work on weekends as an extra to speed up surgeries once I have the FFS and BA done, but if I want to be a part-time student, I can only do one job.

I actually remember getting fired once from a summer job early in my transition (prejudice related) and storming out of the place ranting to a friend on the phone about how this was it, my only remaining option was to go into sex work thanks to these ->-bleeped-<-s. It was a pretty big place so I can only imagine the commotion that caused among patrons :D

Then a miracle I'd been cultivating in prior months happened and I ended up having SRS that summer. But don't think it was effortless or without cost: I very much had to scrape and claw my way to it.

I really have a hard time  dealing people.  Sometimes I just wish to work on a human free environment lol but most of the time I like helping people.  I just wish it was more simple

Quote from: wanessa.delisola on September 03, 2014, 03:08:39 PM
I really have a hard time  dealing people.  Sometimes I just wish to work on a human free environment lol but most of the time I like helping people.  I just wish it was more simple

I should have been a vet. I like animals more than people!

Quote from: katiej on September 03, 2014, 02:49:18 AM
It seems like a lot of the jobs represented here (engineering, software/web development, finance, etc) are task based and don't require us to deal with the public.

I'm in retail and I actually like working with the public, both regulars and strangers and dingbatters.

Quote from: Wynternight on September 03, 2014, 03:10:34 PM
I should have been a vet. I like animals more than people!

My dad always told me I should be a vet (still does), because of my "affinity for animals." My mother told me I should write. Guess which one I listened to? :D

Quote from: Jera on September 03, 2014, 03:46:42 PM
My dad always told me I should be a vet (still does), because of my "affinity for animals." My mother told me I should write. Guess which one I listened to? :D

Your mother, I hope. Even I can tell you have a talent for expressing yourself through written word. I love reading your posts here, Jera.

Quote from: lori_is_here on September 03, 2014, 11:55:47 AM
Analytical mindsets really prevail in the IT field! :-) plus we are problem solvers so we constantly work on any problem until its solved. Thus we had a problem and now its corrected :-P

This makes sense.  By trade I'm a financial analyst, and currently work as a financial controller.  Problem solving is what I do.  I think what I like about it is that I work with systems, and I'm not tasked with changing people's behavior.  Sometimes the problem in a system is people-related, but my job is to identify the problem.  Then someone else can handle the change management.  :)

Also dealing with co-workers or clients is a lot different from dealing with the general public.

I picked Software from the poll, but the reality is a lot more complicated.
I worked for a software company the last two years in QA and as a system administrator. Before that I worked in hardware manufacturing mainly as a technician.
However, in the last 11 years I had side jobs as 2D/3D graphics artist and I also managed the software and hardware in the little movie studio I worked for as a video editor.

I don't have a job now, I'm working on my 3D graphics skills and in my free time I'm helping out the local trans organization mainly with video and graphics editing. I also helped them at events like the 5th European Transgender Council or at their tent on the Sziget Festival and it seems I am part of the organizer team for their next event too.

Quote from: Wynternight on September 03, 2014, 03:10:34 PM
I should have been a vet. I like animals more than people!

Problem is, we still have to deal with the owners  :P

I want to work in IT, but I always seem to find jobs in the transportation industry, be it moving people, industrial orders, or even food, I always seem to end up moving things around.

I happened to stumble into the IT industry many years ago, and now I do computer programming for a medium sized company in the Los Angeles area.

RN and amature cat wrangler.

Quote from: Shannon14 on September 04, 2014, 12:29:54 AM
Problem is, we still have to deal with the owners  :P

Pet owners are almost as  bad as parents...  And I say this as a patent and pet owner lol

I seem to want to make things hard for myself: I'm an introvert and I currently work in jewelry sales while studying Architecture. I have a second interview to work at the Apple store in downtown Portland, which has county and city laws in place to eliminate discrimination, as opposed to where I currently work where they are legally able to fire me with no reason at all.

I actually have an interview in an hour for a job with the state government. If I get it, it'll be my first real job!

Reflections and a further challenge

Ladies and friends, thank you for taking this poll to over 100 responses.  Now some reflections and questions:  I can understand why healthcare would be well represented, but let's dodge the reasons for this for a moment, other than to say that the caring professions might be places where we are more accepted. 

Who is missing from this poll? We cannot all be represented here.  Sex workers, and the socially marginalised girls are probably not on Susan's, nor are those who feel uncomfortable with internet and self expression.  How big a segment are they?  When I attended a group therapy program in Madrid, almost all the girls were jobless or directionless, so maybe this is a large and unrepresented segment in our survey.  But they all had smartphones, so habemos internet.

The real conundrum for me is why so many of us are in engineering and software, which are such archetypal male professions.  A bit of pseudoscience (and feel free to shoot it down):  in utero, before the expression of T, we are all female.  It's the "natural state" for future development, and is modified by T.  So, pseudo theory continuing, given that M2F strongly outnumber F2M, could we hypothesise that the expression of T has not reached all the parts it should reach?  Ok, well in that case surely more of us would start life as very "girly" boys?  And whether this is the case or not, if T has under-expressed in our brains, wouldn't we have a tendency to go for more "female" professions?  So why are so many of us in the two aforementioned professions??  I know I have merrily gone skipping over a mass of science and biology in a way that would make large parts of the medical and scientific profession wince, but let's start with it.

What are your thoughts?

Xoxo
Julia

Quote from: Julia-Madrid on September 06, 2014, 03:47:34 AM

What are your thoughts?

Xoxo
Julia

First of all, great poll and post! It's interesting to see the spread and yes, there are quite a few Software and Healthcare ladies.

Because I'm trying to approach some of the same questions in slightly different ways, I highly recommend checking out the "What is your MBTI personality type?" below. This test is widely used in matching careers/jobs to people, and we have some very interesting results within.

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,135864.120.html

TL;DR - About 55%+ of the 140 people polled have personality types that are less than 10% of the general population. Especially note INTJs and INFJs (the two rarest) are about 14-17 times more common here (!!)

We've long known transgender people are usually above average in terms of intelligence, and that explains the preference for high-intellect jobs like Software, but that's also a generalization that doesn't account for different kinds of intelligence or different cognitive functions.

Looking back to the sacred and important roles Native Americans gave two-spirit people, I think they were aware of these personality types as simply predispositions towards elusive and valuable ways of thinking that, categorically, are far more common in us than in the general population. These personality types are not 'male' or 'female', they are simply rare at all, and many of these ancient cultures found the best accommodations they could.

PS. Introverted Intuit poll that I'm running, please take if you're an IN-type:
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,172713.0.html

Quote from: Julia-Madrid on September 06, 2014, 03:47:34 AM
Reflections and a further challenge

Ladies and friends, thank you for taking this poll to over 100 responses.  Now some reflections and questions:  I can understand why healthcare would be well represented, but let's dodge the reasons for this for a moment, other than to say that the caring professions might be places where we are more accepted. 

Who is missing from this poll? We cannot all be represented here.  Sex workers, and the socially marginalised girls are probably not on Susan's, nor are those who feel uncomfortable with internet and self expression.  How big a segment are they?  When I attended a group therapy program in Madrid, almost all the girls were jobless or directionless, so maybe this is a large and unrepresented segment in our survey.  But they all had smartphones, so habemos internet.

The real conundrum for me is why so many of us are in engineering and software, which are such archetypal male professions.  A bit of pseudoscience (and feel free to shoot it down):  in utero, before the expression of T, we are all female.  It's the "natural state" for future development, and is modified by T.  So, pseudo theory continuing, given that M2F strongly outnumber F2M, could we hypothesise that the expression of T has not reached all the parts it should reach?  Ok, well in that case surely more of us would start life as very "girly" boys?  And whether this is the case or not, if T has under-expressed in our brains, wouldn't we have a tendency to go for more "female" professions?  So why are so many of us in the two aforementioned professions??  I know I have merrily gone skipping over a mass of science and biology in a way that would make large parts of the medical and scientific profession wince, but let's start with it.

What are your thoughts?

Xoxo
Julia

I don't think these results are particularly surprising, personally. Looking at the poll more generally, and not toward any specific fields, there's an overwhelming majority in disciplines of a more mental nature, and the more physical (i.e. "male") disciplines seem almost wholly unrepresented.

There's a great deal of social variables to consider that might explain that, more than I can say in a single post. One I find perhaps relevant, is that I do not think either of the fields you mention really are strictly roles filled by a masculine archetype, though they are certainly highly dominated by men. Rather, cis girls are actively discouraged from pursuing interests like that, so I think it's more about a lack of women pursuing these careers, rather than them being "male" careers. As trans, our social conditioning is different, and we were not so discouraged in this way. Of those men who pursue these career, I notice (unscientifically, of course) a stereotypical beta-male presence. Culturally, computer guys are not exactly regarded as the manliest of men, anyway. I wonder if more women would pick a career like this without the cultural pressure to choose a more social role/career.

Psychologically, professions like engineering or software development (and similar) are very creative careers, and creativity is generally considered to be a mildly feminine trait. Perhaps also interesting to consider, is that these kinds of activities provide some measure of control over our environments. In applying some of yourself to these systems, you can have some measure of orderly results in your environment, especially if we feel like we have so little control over our inner nature.

I've totally glossed over these points, but it's just a few things I think might be worth considering, though there's so much more to it. I don't feel like I've done them justice, and I could be totally wrong anyway.

Bravo Jera

You've hit some very strong points, as I'll certainly agree that those two professions aren't exactly strong in alpha male types.  But I am not so sure whether cis women are under-represented due to social conditioning or brain affinity, if such a thing can be proven to exist.  A small spanner in your works: if those professions have fewer alpha males, shouldn't it be a less threatening / more attractive place for all women, cis or trans?

Please feel free to go deeper if you want - sit down with a beer (sherry?  ;)) and let fly. 

Hugs
Julia

Im a in home health aid for alzheimers and dementia patients.  Used to do that full time till I started college and now im a full time student and work my 30 hrs on the weekends.  Workin on a degree to be a gender therpist/counsilor so I can work with the trans community in my area. Im also a self employed artist.

Quote from: Julia-Madrid on September 06, 2014, 05:23:35 AM
A small spanner in your works: if those professions have fewer alpha males, shouldn't it be a less threatening / more attractive place for all women, cis or trans?

I honestly don't feel like it's a question of being threatened. Rather, it's more about appearing threatening. To succeed in those careers, you have to be very intelligent. Intelligent women are generally considered rather threatening, even intimidating, and most women (typically, anyway) will tend to downplay their intelligence, rather than choose a career that emphasizes it, or even highlights it.

Quote from: Julia-Madrid on September 06, 2014, 05:23:35 AM

You've hit some very strong points, as I'll certainly agree that those two professions aren't exactly strong in alpha male types.  But I am not so sure whether cis women are under-represented due to social conditioning or brain affinity, if such a thing can be proven to exist.  A small spanner in your works: if those professions have fewer alpha males, shouldn't it be a less threatening / more attractive place for all women, cis or trans?

If you had all the data in front of you and looked at the forum post I linked above, you would see that -coincidence?- we have almost nobody here representing four personality types (all ES--) that make up about 48% of women.

For the most part we're Visionaries and Intellectuals, not Guardians or Creators. We see the world as it could be. It does not match us any other way. I don't see this as particularly hard to wrap one's head around.

I'd say that I love all the theorizing and alpha/beta type postulation, but with the breakthrough of empirical data I linked supporting WHY we are predisposed towards certain professions & ways of mindfulness, I actually don't :)

---
EDIT: Also, I find it sexist to label industries as typically male-dominated, particularly in tech or intellectual capacities. The fact that women are still breaking free from centuries of often normatively-incubated oppression does not undermine the fact that at the very highest levels we are just as cutting-edge competitive as anyone.

Quote from: Rachelicious on September 06, 2014, 06:46:23 AM
If you had all the data in front of you and looked at the forum post I linked above, you would see that -coincidence?- we have almost nobody here representing four personality types (all ES--) that make up about 48% of women.

For the most part we're Visionaries and Intellectuals, not Guardians or Creators. We see the world as it could be. It does not match us any other way. I don't see this as particularly hard to wrap one's head around.

I'd say that I love all the theorizing and alpha/beta type postulation, but with the breakthrough of empirical data I linked supporting WHY we are predisposed towards certain professions & ways of mindfulness, I actually don't :)

To be fair, I don't really think that either of these polls are in any way a breakthrough. It's hardly surprising that people who work with computers a lot find support from other people on their computer. Nor is it any way surprising that the people you find here in general are by nature introverts. I do agree that these two facts are highly related.

I personally find it interesting that there's many transwomen who have chosen a career not typically chosen by very many ciswomen at all. (Typically, that's not to say there's NONE, of course). I'd love to hear what our software and engineering girls have to say about this. :)

QuoteEDIT: Also, I find it sexist to label industries as typically male-dominated, particularly in tech or intellectual capacities. The fact that women are still breaking free from centuries of often normatively-incubated oppression does not undermine the fact that at the very highest levels we are just as cutting-edge competitive as anyone.

This I do agree with 100%. But there's still not very many women in these fields, relatively speaking, especially compared with the relatively large number of breakthroughs women have had in recent years in other fields. Do you have an opinion about why that is the case?

The turn this thread has taken reminds me a lot of a Forbes article I read a while back. http://www.forbes.com/sites/markfidelman/2012/06/05/heres-the-real-reason-there-are-not-more-women-in-technology/

This is a couple years old, but I think it's still relevant. Does anyone else agree? If so, how much does it or does it not apply to transwomen too?

Quote from: Jera on September 06, 2014, 07:26:31 AM
To be fair, I don't really think that either of these polls are in any way a breakthrough. It's hardly surprising that people who work with computers a lot find support from other people on their computer. Nor is it any way surprising that the people you find here in general are by nature introverts. I do agree that these two facts are highly related.

Fair enough, but it's empirical and has the *potential* to spark formal research that leads to a breakthrough, as opposed to formless philosophical projections that lead us nowhere. And in terms of MBTI, I would not use the word "introvert" in its jargon-usage to generalize about people here - doing so lends no appreciation to how the introverted functions that are actually at play manifest themselves.

Quote from: Jera on September 06, 2014, 07:26:31 AM
I personally find it interesting that there's many transwomen who have chosen a career not typically chosen by very many ciswomen at all. (Typically, that's not to say there's NONE, of course). I'd love to hear what our software and engineering girls have to say about this. :)

My particular program is around 15% female, which is selective, but far from none. Our poll results have 55% of about 140 of those who responded on Susans in a category of personality that ordinarily makes up 7% of everyone - one which is known to be uniquely gifted, intellectual, etc. Prone to computer use? Perhaps, but who isn't these days? Yes, it's completely interesting! But the mystery as to why has been dispelled.

Quote from: Jera on September 06, 2014, 07:26:31 AM
http://www.forbes.com/sites/markfidelman/2012/06/05/heres-the-real-reason-there-are-not-more-women-in-technology/

This is a couple years old, but I think it's still relevant. Does anyone else agree? If so, how much does it or does it not apply to transwomen too?

People go into what interests them. Women generally have fewer social opportunities and peer resources in choosing tech compared to men - it can work out, but we have to be more driven by individual talent and motivation. Nobody is going to carry you. You have to want it.

One factor I cannot skip over is that many girls are raised straight to the ideals/path of mommyhood. Standards of how to properly raise a child are high in the 21st century to the point of requiring the resources & mindset of a fully mature individual, and if it is an option, there are too many women who will take it (for one reason or another) and be significantly held back from doing anything more meaningful with their lives.

I work in IT. I do the email tickets for one of the department's three clients.

Of all things, post transition I ended up working as the office administrator at a church :P

I do both construction and mechanical (car servicing and repairs) work on a self employed basis, mainly for friends and family as i get enough to keep me ticking over, some know im in transition some dont, i will probably end up working from home though when i get to the awkward stage in my transition, have wondered a few times about going back to college, but not really the right time at the moment, mum even suggested i trained in hair and beauty, mainly as im finding somewhere trans friendly to go, i think she felt i could then help others in my situation 

well last week i got accepted into a one year contract to a pharmacy in a hospital =] realy loving the work there and people are awesome and good =p

I work as a able seaman

I chose my field for the pay and conditions 180k for 6 months work isn't bad at all. Although it is a very physical job once I have accumulated the experience to train to be an officer, basically I will become a office worker with 360 degree views of the ocean at which point I will begin HRT.

Also helps as I'm in Thailand quite a bit so when I go there for SRS I will know my way around already.

Interestingly before choosing my current field I studied for 2 years to be a system administrator.

Kaylee

Quote from: Jera on September 06, 2014, 07:26:31 AM
I personally find it interesting that there's many transwomen who have chosen a career not typically chosen by very many ciswomen at all. (Typically, that's not to say there's NONE, of course). I'd love to hear what our software and engineering girls have to say about this. :)

I have studied electrical engineering and computer science. I think that in my case it was both nature and nurture. I was strongly influenced by my family because my grandfather and mother was both engineers working in electronic development/IT. And I didn't live with my father, he left when I was born. So I was raised mainly by those people. And from early age I was confronted with technology field. It was very interesting and I loved science and especially electronics. I loved the feeling that I can create something new, that I can convert my ideas into real word thing.
Now when I am working I am doing mainly embedded devices. And the reason why I like it so much is that I can build something and give it "life"(write firmware for example). And when I see that it is working well and helping people to make life easier it is the best feeling. It is fulfilling that I can leave something real in this word behind myself, I feel that my life is not useless. I don't know about any other career that would fulfill my creative mind.

I must say that another advantage is that all male BS disappeared when I entered university. During elementary and high school I was always confronted with macho men who made my school life a hell. In science field the concentration of those people(who I really hate) are much much lower. It was relief for me...

I always wonder why the majority of cis female are not interested in those sciences, because there are many intelligent and tolerant people. And also it is field where you only need an intellectual power(which is gender neutral), any physical strength or another more male oriented skills are useless. So I still wonder...

Quote from: Jera on September 06, 2014, 07:26:31 AM
I personally find it interesting that there's many transwomen who have chosen a career not typically chosen by very many ciswomen at all. (Typically, that's not to say there's NONE, of course). I'd love to hear what our software and engineering girls have to say about this. :)

We may be women, but we were socialized as male.  Elementary aged girls are just as likely as boys to report enjoying math and science.  I think it's something like 80% or so.  But by university only 30% of women still say they enjoy those subjects.

I believe there is some evolutionary biology involved, but society certainly plays a big part in it.  Society tells women to study the humanities, and the beauty culture tells them to focus on looking pretty (evolutionary biology figures into this as well...but that's another topic). 

But having said that, I work in finance and accounting, where women are actually very well represented until you reach the highest levels of management.  I found a recent study (http://www.catalyst.org/knowledge/women-accounting) that breaks it down further.

Quote from: katiej on September 07, 2014, 01:11:08 AM

I believe there is some evolutionary biology involved, but society certainly plays a big part in it.  Society tells women to study the humanities, and the beauty culture tells them to focus on looking pretty (evolutionary biology figures into this as well...but that's another topic). 

I think there is some truth in this. For example I can see it in media every day. It is pushing women towards beauty standards and men towards creative tasks. And very often women are pictured as "stupid" and not mature beings and that is really degrading. And also it is hard for a woman to become an engineer because it will make her different from majority and it needs strong mind to withstand the pressure. For men it is a standard set by society and media to be creative and leader...

For thousands of years men hunted and women gathered.  Men protected the family, and women nurtured the family.  Men had to demonstrate to prospective mates that they'd be a good provider and protector, while women had to demonstrate that they had good genes and would be able to propagate the species.

We're not fighting for our survival against woolly mammoths and approaching glaciers anymore.  So some of those instincts are obsolete.  But the evolutionary biology means that we are still wired that way to some extent.

This is one reason why we as trans people have such a hard time fitting into the normal societal role of our assigned gender.

Quote from: Rachelicious on September 06, 2014, 06:46:23 AM
EDIT: Also, I find it sexist to label industries as typically male-dominated, particularly in tech or intellectual capacities. The fact that women are still breaking free from centuries of often normatively-incubated oppression does not undermine the fact that at the very highest levels we are just as cutting-edge competitive as anyone.

I totally agree!  When I had my own software and systems company I used to actively seek out women programmers/engineers.  I was always swamped by male candidates.  During the 1999-2003 period I was able to recruit a couple, but after that they totally disappeared as candidates.  And partly that seemed to be that for a brief period of time it was trendy to go into a career in software, so a few more women chose it, but then the trend changed, although I have no idea why. 

Perhaps as transwoman our perception of women in the workplace is skewed, as we "live both worlds" and can see both sides.  For that reason, from a formerly male perspective, we see cis women as total equals, or even as role models.  Certainly I was totally in awe and lightly jealous of the highly competent female engineers with whom I was able to work.  But they had to work harder, and still do.

Quote from: Jera on September 06, 2014, 07:26:31 AM

I personally find it interesting that there's many transwomen who have chosen a career not typically chosen by very many ciswomen at all. (Typically, that's not to say there's NONE, of course). I'd love to hear what our software and engineering girls have to say about this. :)

You mean, why did I choose a career in software (knowing that I was transgender)?  Hummm, I guess fundamentally because of its creativity, both at a programming level and at a graphical level.  I used to love making "beautiful things" both logically and visually.  A secondary reason was for its problem solving component, where you are presented with a requirement and have to develop an algorithm of some sort.  A third reason was for its collaborative nature, since software these days is a highly collaborative activity.

All of these, in my opinion, are 100% within the intellectual reach of all women, and moreover should be attractive to women.  Software, too, is an activity that could (with a little difficulty) be interwoven with child care and family responsibilities.

So, distilling this into my view of why this career appears to be attractive to many transgender women and few cis women, I think I have to agree that it's a question, as the Forbes article states, of too few women choosing these careers, rather than that we, as transgender women, are over represented in these areas.   

Thank you Rachel and Jera for a very interesting side journey on this thread!

Julia

Quote from: cass on September 06, 2014, 12:16:49 PM
I do both construction and mechanical (car servicing and repairs) work on a self employed basis, mainly for friends and family as i get enough to keep me ticking over, some know im in transition some dont, i will probably end up working from home though when i get to the awkward stage in my transition, have wondered a few times about going back to college, but not really the right time at the moment, mum even suggested i trained in hair and beauty, mainly as im finding somewhere trans friendly to go, i think she felt i could then help others in my situation

Pre-transition I was a car mechanic and while the pay was good and I enjoyed it, it really is a totally male dominated field. Woman mechanics are probably less than .01%? Not talking about girls who can work on their own cars, doing it as a profession. I've honestly never met one and I live in a very large metro area. I was getting older and was tired of doing such physical work anyway, it -really- tears up your hands etc. I was always good with computers and graphic design so this church job was a perfect fit for me. The pay is close, it's a lot less physically demanding and is in some way more fun. I know some people would say I did this to fit into a stereotype, but being a woman mechanic really would be putting yourself under the microscope given how rare that is. Construction as well.

Hi ladies.  I've been working as a mechanic full time since 2000.  Been working on cars since I was 15.   I feel the same as Stephe.  But at this time I don't have much of a choice but to continue in the field.  It doesn't pay all that well at this time.  Having a hard time living pay check to pay check. It's made it hard on having the proper HRT .

I wish I would've pursued that computer industry when I was younger, but my passion for cars was greater as I look back at it. I work on VW, Audi, Porsche, BMW, MB. But, it's not glorious.  I work for a small independent shop that is in a bad neighborhood, bad building, and management that is cutting it's teeth.  We aren't as efficient as we should be.  So that means less money to go around.  #frustrated.

But it's rewarding when I get ma'mmed at work by customers :)

monica93304 I can relate to your chosen field, I bounced back and fourth between being an RV tech/trailer mechanic and driving tractor trailers for over 20 years. Now I drive for a very large company in the aero space field, I started as a forklift operator through a temp service, a few days ago the big boss came to me and said, it has come to his attention that I use to drive over the road, then he asked me if I wanted to become a company driver...I jumped at the chance to make more money. I also run a small mobile mechanic business on the weekends along with a pressure washing business and do carpentry work on the side. Sounds like a lot? I started doing side work as a necessity to keep my head above water. My side work is mostly during the spring, summer and fall, last winter I didn't do much of anything. I am not setting the world on fire, sometimes I go for 4 to 5 weeks without any side work. I had to readjust my way of life from grocery shopping to spending habits. I feel your pain.

I am a licensed Mechanical Engineer and work at a Large Healthcare Enterprise. I manage the physical plants, Operating Engineers, purchase utilities and perform all aspects of capital equipment and energy engineering project submission, management and reporting.

Currently a Paramedic and student. I hope to have the gender marker changed before Medical school but we will see.

Worked as corporate accountant before retiting.

I clicked other, only cause I didn't see media until after I had voted.

When I was in high school, I took a year of photography, it was the only reason I stayed in school for that year, towards the end if the year after coming out I quit high school and went & did my VCE (SAT's) in a tafe.
After TAFE I went on to study photography full time for 5 years, while I loved urbanscapes, landscapes and a little bit of art, I knew there was no real work there, so really focused in of photojournalism.

I won a prize and got a job for one of the major news companies here and did that for a few years, I loved it, I was on sport, so it was easy work and got to cover a heap of major sporting events. Then moved me to crime/general after a while and I hated it.
I was turning up at 4am to car crashes, murders, bashings/stabbings and so on. One day while sitting outside a court waiting for a double murdered a friend called me and said that there was a photolab for sale, I should check it out cause she knew how much I was hating my work.
Within 3 months I bought the lab with money that was left to me when my dad died, quit working for the paper and ran that until earlier this year when I was a little bit unhappy with worrying about money so often. I sold it (for more than what I bought it for).
I'm now not working, for the first time since school, enjoying life, happy as larry, own my my house (don't own the bank a cent on my house), own a rental and may never work full time again.