I thought it a fair question, given the fact that I think she's been a little too accepting. I know I won't stop HRT , but I do need the challenge . I'm glad she finally threw the gauntlet down. now I need some deep examination . I think the stage is being set for yea or nay on grs on whether Ii need to go that far. I love therapy.
Well Stephanie. I would probably never do the GRS thing. Just me and I don't think genetalia is that important. HRT yeah. I'm pretty sure you're transgender since the HRT seems to help. But what do you think? That is something only you can answer. Now pick up that gauntlet and throw it back.
Am I trans?
I honestly don't know. Not a clue. What I do know is that hormones and transition have made me a lot happier with myself. Guess I must be. :icon_cool:
Society said i was trans*.
They are the ones who place a label on me.
I was and always been what society says is female.
I am human and wish to be not a hunter but a gatherer.
So can i ever answer that question?
I am me.
well, she said maybe I was just bisexual, but I thought there were bisexual transgenders, now I'm confused
Quote from: mrs izzy on September 04, 2014, 10:06:20 PM
Society said i was trans*.
They are the ones who place a label on me.
I was and always been what society says is female.
I am human and wish to be not a hunter but a gatherer.
So can i ever answer that question?
I am me.
I couldn't have put it better... I don't know how to vote up or down, but you'd have gotten a +1 if I knew!!!
Quote from: stephaniec on September 05, 2014, 12:20:10 AM
well, she said maybe I was just bisexual, but I thought there were bisexual transgenders, now I'm confused
Sexual orientation don't mean too much. You either like men, women or both. Then it gets kind of freaky but I won't even go there. The question is would you rather be male or female yourself? Who you prefer as a partner don't really mean crap, no offense to your therapist but what do
you want to be? God that kind of put the Twisted Sister video in my mind. "What do you want to do with your life?" Jesus Christ, now you made me feel like the idiot in the video. Thanks for ruining my night Stephanie. ;)
Quote from: Jess42 on September 05, 2014, 12:27:18 AM
Sexual orientation don't mean too much. You either like men, women or both. Then it gets kind of freaky but I won't even go there. The question is would you rather be male or female yourself? Who you prefer as a partner don't really mean crap, no offense to your therapist but what do you want to be? God that kind of put the Twisted Sister video in my mind. "What do you want to do with your life?" Jesus Christ, now you made me feel like the idiot in the video. Thanks for ruining my night Stephanie. ;)
well, your very welcome.
Quote from: Jess42 on September 05, 2014, 12:27:18 AM
Who you prefer as a partner don't really mean crap, no offense to your therapist but what do you want to be?
I think the therapist isn't that bad. I'd say she just wanted to remind you that some gay or bisexual man won't accept that fact and start transitioning out of the wrong reasons (that is: being accepted by others instead of being accepted by themself).
Quote from: stephaniec on September 05, 2014, 12:39:24 AM
well, your very welcome.
"SO, WHAT ARE YOU GONNA' DO WITH YOUR LIFE?" :P
Quote from: Jess42 on September 05, 2014, 01:10:25 AM
"SO, WHAT ARE YOU GONNA' DO WITH YOUR LIFE?" :P
I was thinking trans fashion model.
Quote from: stephaniec on September 05, 2014, 01:14:06 AM
I was thinking trans fashion model.
Well fashion models it is hard to tell since they are so androgynous now days. So just go with the fashion model only. But I Wanna' Rock. Just rock like a girl though. Maybe like Lita, Vixen or Joan Jett at least.
Quote from: Jess42 on September 05, 2014, 01:19:25 AM
Well fashion models it is hard to tell since they are so androgynous now days. So just go with the fashion model only. But I Wanna' Rock. Just rock like a girl though. Maybe like Lita, Vixen or Joan Jett at least.
I wish I knew how to play a guitar. I think Jill F has some guitars though.
My first psychologist had no clue about trans issues, bless his little heart. He made plenty of strange comparisons to mental conditions and asked me to explore my gender stereotypes, ideas, concepts, and memories related to gender, until I gave up on him and decided to go to a gender specialist (it was still helpful at this stage to explore those concepts though).
When I finally saw the gender specialist, he asked me a series of questions, had me fill out a few surveys, and answered a tonne of questions I had about transition and what other people go through and whether he thought it was right for me. In the end, he told me that he is confident that I have gender dysphoria caused by my masculinity, and that transition may help, as it has with many trans people in the past.
After a lot of soul searching, I found that identifying as female made sense to me, personally. It clicked. Am I trans? Trans, for me, is a side effect of me being assigned incorrectly at birth, and having to now make up for that. I'm not ashamed of it, but as was said earlier - I am trans because society says I am, truthfully, I have always been, and continue to be, female. I just didn't understand my true identity because I, like many other people, had never explored the gender issue myself, and assumed that what I was assigned was the hand I was dealt, and depression be damned, I had to live with it.
The few times my sexuality has been asked about, I usually dismissed it. I honestly think sexuality has almost nothing to do with gender.
Quote from: stephaniec on September 05, 2014, 01:38:53 AM
I wish I knew how to play a guitar. I think Jill F has some guitars though.
The hardest part about guitar is when you can put your feelings through the guitar that something actually comes out of it. Jill, VM, Allahna and Zoot(can't remember the rest though) and karianne and a few other play. I delved into theory a long time ago and it is actually easier than what you think. Its way more about muscle memory learning a song than anything else. Composing then it gets a little more technical and tedious, especially solos. Doing gigs, I don't have the music in front of me. It is all by memory and practicing the songs over and over again. I taught myself and picked up some stuff from other players and so on.
Quote from: stephaniec on September 04, 2014, 09:37:12 PM
I thought it a fair question, given the fact that I think she's been a little too accepting. I know I won't stop HRT.
I love therapy.
Stephanie
Looking forward to hearing your answer. If you need hrt and you present as F then, whether you have GRS or not, I suspect that the answer may be fairly clear. I 'love' therapists to, but assuming that she has already diagnosed you as trans*, why do you think that she is now asking this question?
Safe travels
Aisla
A hard question to answer. Is there a possibility that any one of us could be mistakenly transgender? Sure; it wouldn't be that hard for a non-TG person to fool a therapist, nor for a therapist to inadvertently help convince a patient that the patient is something that he or she isn't. Can we ever be certain about our choices? No, but we can make educated decisions that we're happy to live with. For most of us - you too, Stephanie - this is the one decision we've put the most thought into in our entire lives, but it's still not error-proof.
Would flipping it around help? Are you sure you wouldn't just be happy sticking around as male for the rest of your life, keeping the man body, doing man things and being treated as a guy? (Yuck...:P)
That said, even if you weren't transgender but you were happy with what you were doing and where you were going, then there's no harm, right?
Somewhere I heard an interesting set of hypothetical questions that are helpful in determining if you're trans...the magic button test:
Imagine a magic button that would cause you to wake up female tomorrow. You will be completely biologically changed. No one will have any memory of your boy self, you will have your memories, but for everyone else, it will be like you were just born a girl. The button can only be pressed once and is irrevocable.
Do you press it?
If yes, what if it works differently? What if instead of altering all reality, it just alters your body? So you wake up in a girl's body tomorrow, but everyone remembers your past.
Do you press it?
What if there were more conditions? What if for some reason the magical conversion left you infertile? What if you had to press it knowing a lot of your friends and family would reject you?
Do you press it?
For me, the answer is always yes. What it shows me is that the desired outcome is always the same...I want to be a woman. So then, really it's just the process of transition that is holding me back. But because such a button doesn't exist, I have to just suck it up and get through transition if I want to reach the desired outcome.
I really like that. Before I came to terms with wanting to transition, I denied that I was trans and decided that the first part of that was the only one I'd say yes to. Then after an hour I answered yes to the second... A few hours later yes to the third. Then there's only one left...
What if, instead of a button, it was a pill you had to take daily? And instead of overnight, it took two years or longer? What then?
Yes, yes, yes.
OMG... I asked my therapist that question.. are you sure I am trans.. lets go over it again....then I got different therapist.. asked her same question... and the answer is yes most definitely..
But I knew the answer.. all I have to do is think logically and put myself in my old male place...which is getting harder to do...and then its like I could never go back ever... not a chance..
When I have the WTF moments I just get logical.. I have been this way since I was little and its the most consistent thing in my life..just like breathing is an every moment thing being trans or being a woman is too...
:)Carrie
What does sexual preference have to do with self identity?
Being trans is an issue of who I am. Sexual preference is an issue of to whom I am attracted. The two things are only peripherally related. Furthermore, since the brain biology basis of being trans continues to grow over the last 20+ years of gathering evidence, and since similar mechanisms (hormonal levels in utero) are also now being implicated by the AMA in sexual preference, it explains why so many trans persons also often have atypical sexual preferences.
The following is about 70 minutes long and consists of lecture plus slides. The presentation was made at a January 2011 AMA annual meeting. This is the official position of the AMA on both sexual orientation and gender identity.
Origins of Diversity of Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity and How Discrimination Impacts Health (http://media01.commpartners.com/AMA/sexual_identity_jan_2011/index.html)
As Brenda notes, I've considered the question of do I want to live the rest of my life as male and the answer to that is a resounding "NO!"
And to KatieJ, my answer would be yes, yes, and yes! And in fact it has been yes, yes, and yes, including the familial rejection, yet I am happier today than I can ever recall being as an adult.
Finally, when I started this entire process and my therapist diagnosed me trans, my spouse absolutely refused to accept it, so she took me to her therapist, who, after an hour of probing questions and discussions turned to my spouse and simply said, "She's trans. She has to do this." In sheer anger, my spouse stormed out, called a third therapist, made an appointment and had us both go to her. Again, within an hour of probing and asking questions she got the same answer yet again. At that point, my spouse swore off ever talking to any "witchdoctor" therapist ever again, because none of the "dealt with reality". But I know who was really in denial about reality and it wasn't me or any of those three therapists.
I think its a dangerous question. I asked myself the same thing and got hung up on it for a long while, but I realized it doesn't actually matter.
It's a leading question, in that it suggests the answer, yes or no. I got stuck on it endlessly. Humans are social animals and I think there's a need to define yourself, to find a box or group to belong in, and when everything is uncertain its validating to say yes, I'm transgender (or whatever). But instead try asking, am I on the transgender spectrum? That's pretty inclusive and the answer is obvious, at least for me.
And if I'm not transgender am I'm going to give up estrogen? Over my dead body. I'll take things a step at a time and find myself, and I don't care what the label is; I know when I'm happy or not.
I used to have doubts before HRT, but those have since disappeared... besides, why would I go through this if I wasn't?
I'm sure I will never be 100% certain whether I'm trans or not, one fine night I'm convinced, the next morning I'll start doubting myself again. It's frustrating, all I know for sure is that something is wrong and I need to find a solution to my problem.
all I know for sure is that HRT is a life saver for me
There so totally bisexual trans people. In fact a large majority of trans people I associate with are bisexual. I myself am bisexual, but as I've transitioned I have preference toward men (I am a transman).
But I do have moments of doubt. I have moments that I put on the dress and heels and paint my nails, and try and go back into the box I was presented with at birth. But then I feel like a liar. I feel suffocated. I feel like an actor.
So to answer the question, I am a man. I was assigned the female gender at birth, and this mistake has caused me to be labelled trans, but I am a man.
I know mentally my whole life since 4 I've been woman and HRT confirms it.
Quote from: LizMarie on September 05, 2014, 09:09:13 AM
What does sexual preference have to do with self identity?
Being trans is an issue of who I am. Sexual preference is an issue of to whom I am attracted. The two things are only peripherally related. Furthermore, since the brain biology basis of being trans continues to grow over the last 20+ years of gathering evidence, and since similar mechanisms (hormonal levels in utero) are also now being implicated by the AMA in sexual preference, it explains why so many trans persons also often have atypical sexual preferences.
The following is about 70 minutes long and consists of lecture plus slides. The presentation was made at a January 2011 AMA annual meeting. This is the official position of the AMA on both sexual orientation and gender identity.
Origins of Diversity of Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity and How Discrimination Impacts Health (http://media01.commpartners.com/AMA/sexual_identity_jan_2011/index.html)
As Brenda notes, I've considered the question of do I want to live the rest of my life as male and the answer to that is a resounding "NO!"
And to KatieJ, my answer would be yes, yes, and yes! And in fact it has been yes, yes, and yes, including the familial rejection, yet I am happier today than I can ever recall being as an adult.
Finally, when I started this entire process and my therapist diagnosed me trans, my spouse absolutely refused to accept it, so she took me to her therapist, who, after an hour of probing questions and discussions turned to my spouse and simply said, "She's trans. She has to do this." In sheer anger, my spouse stormed out, called a third therapist, made an appointment and had us both go to her. Again, within an hour of probing and asking questions she got the same answer yet again. At that point, my spouse swore off ever talking to any "witchdoctor" therapist ever again, because none of the "dealt with reality". But I know who was really in denial about reality and it wasn't me or any of those three therapists.
thanks, very interesting
(Another bisexual trans woman here. :) )
My therapist took almost the opposite approach - I was doubting myself* so much that she'd say basically "OK, let's not get into whether you're trans. Do you want to ask people to use a different name/pierce your ears/buy women's clothing/etc.?" Then if I said yes (I always did!) she would suggest I try it out and see if it made me happier. Eventually I did accept the trans label, but she left that up to me, while making it clear that I didn't have to be "really trans" to experiment.
*I ran into so many people who said you had to know you were trans when you were a kid or it wasn't true... so I thought I was making it up.
Only you know inside, not any therapist.
Maybe you should ask her if she's sure she's cis gendere?
Quote from: Ms Grace on September 05, 2014, 07:01:40 PM
Maybe you should ask her if she's sure she's cis gendere?
Awesome.
Quote from: Ms Grace on September 05, 2014, 07:01:40 PM
Maybe you should ask her if she's sure she's cis gendere?
I think you've got something there
I'm bemused at how many of you seem to think this is a bad or dodgy question.. It's not, in fact, it's right out of Psych 101.. It's a question that's supposed to make you think..
Oh yeah, I agree. But I do find cis folk are very presumptive about themselves being the "normal" ones in the equation, especially when it comes to therapy.
Quote from: Ms Grace on September 05, 2014, 07:24:48 PM
Oh yeah, I agree. But I do find cis folk are very presumptive about themselves being the "normal" ones in the equation, especially when it comes to therapy.
A very important point, Grace.
Quote from: stephaniec on September 05, 2014, 12:20:10 AM
well, she said maybe I was just bisexual, but I thought there were bisexual transgenders, now I'm confused
My therapist just threw that one at me too, and I was also confused. I think he meant bigender, or bi-sexual as in being two sexes at once. Not as in sexual orientation. Just a guess, though.
The idea of me being a gay man is very, very foreign to me. That doesn't mean I won't accept gay people and fight alongside them for their rights. But being gay is just not how I am wired.
When I wrote about the magic button test last night, I had forgotten about the final button. It seems we'd all push the three that would change us to female, regardless of the consequences.
The fourth option is a magic button that would change you to a cis-male. You would suddenly forget about ever wanting to be a woman, and would live life happily as a man.
Would you push that button?
For me...this is the first one I'd actually have to think about. But I don't think I would. As difficult as it is to be trans and to go through transition, at least the first three options let me be myself. The fourth button would make life easier, but I wouldn't be me anymore.
I've said in the forum a few times already that I would rather be a trans woman than a cis male.
I'd say without a doubt I am. I'm doing better as a woman than I ever did trying to force myself into a male role.
As for GRS... I've been digging deep on that question myself (in fact I've spent my entire summer agonizing over it). I've come to the conclusion that yes, I would probably be better off with female anatomy, but I'm not yet willing to deal with the cost, physical pain, and risks that come with surgery and frankly, after a lot of research into it, I am not at all impressed with what today's medicine can do. I just don't think it would ever be good enough for me; it feels like it would be a cheap imitation of what I really want.
If there was some way I could painlessly change my genitalia without being butchered then I'd do it though.
Quote from: katiej on September 06, 2014, 02:35:02 AM
Somewhere I heard an interesting set of hypothetical questions that are helpful in determining if you're trans...the magic button test:
Imagine a magic button that would cause you to wake up female tomorrow. You will be completely biologically changed. No one will have any memory of your boy self, you will have your memories, but for everyone else, it will be like you were just born a girl. The button can only be pressed once and is irrevocable.
Do you press it?
If yes, what if it works differently? What if instead of altering all reality, it just alters your body? So you wake up in a girl's body tomorrow, but everyone remembers your past.
Do you press it?
What if there were more conditions? What if for some reason the magical conversion left you infertile? What if you had to press it knowing a lot of your friends and family would reject you?
Do you press it?
For me, the answer is always yes. What it shows me is that the desired outcome is always the same...I want to be a woman. So then, really it's just the process of transition that is holding me back. But because such a button doesn't exist, I have to just suck it up and get through transition if I want to reach the desired outcome.
The fourth option is a magic button that would change you to a cis-male. You would suddenly forget about ever wanting to be a woman, and would live life happily as a man.
Would you push that button?
That's a great test. I'm planning on becoming a registered clinical counsellor and if I ever have any trans clients I think that'd be a really concise and logical test to get us started. I copied and pasted it into a document so I won't lose it. I want to give you good rep but I don't know how!
Quote from: Ms Grace on September 05, 2014, 07:24:48 PM
Oh yeah, I agree. But I do find cis folk are very presumptive about themselves being the "normal" ones in the equation, especially when it comes to therapy.
OMG Grace, you are my hero. I don't know how long I have been saying that we are the normal ones and the cis folks just refuse to accept themselves. From fantasies to day dreams to dreams at night to trying on the opposite gender clothing at least once.
I remember watching Home Improvement one time and Tim Allen or Taylor on that show let it out of the bag he tried on his wife's shoes. J. Edgar Hoover. Rumors only? Interesting. Just this sight here shows more normalcy to me than a lot of the cis people I have to deal with.
Quote from: Gothic Dandy Luca on September 05, 2014, 08:33:17 PM
My therapist just threw that one at me too, and I was also confused. I think he meant bigender, or bi-sexual as in being two sexes at once. Not as in sexual orientation. Just a guess, though.
well, she said I could live as both genders , sometimes male, sometimes female.
Quote from: stephaniec on September 06, 2014, 03:43:34 PM
well, she said I could live as both genders , sometimes male, sometimes female.
Yeah but the thing is are you actually non binary? Or do you want to be female full on?
I would be one to ask my therapist what they were and to think about it. It really sux having a little knowledge about psychology maybe even a better understanding than a therapist. With me it was some college, then figured out parapsychology was way more interesting but no kind of courses for it and then just pretty much learning the rest on my own. I think I have analyzed my therapists just as much as they have analyzed me. One has even asked me freaking questions. ::) C'mon, really? But he was a good guy though and I taught him some guitar so... I got free therapy for a while. He even wanted to go on a paranormal investigation. We took him and I thought he was gonna, poop his pants at one time. ;D Just a cobweb in a basement.
if you're a woman, then you are a woman. trans or cis doesn't matter in the slightest.
the only true transgender people are those of us who find ourselves beyond the commonly accepted concept of either male or female gender. a man or woman are well within that, and should be considered man or woman. i am transgender, traditional genders don't apply to me.
just making even more transgressions for the gender police to investigate...
Quote from: Taka on September 06, 2014, 06:18:00 PM
if you're a woman, then you are a woman. trans or cis doesn't matter in the slightest.
the only true transgender people are those of us who find ourselves beyond the commonly accepted concept of either male or female gender. a man or woman are well within that, and should be considered man or woman. i am transgender, traditional genders don't apply to me.
just making even more transgressions for the gender police to investigate...
I don't know, but I like being trans.
Quote from: Jess42 on September 06, 2014, 05:35:52 PM
Yeah but the thing is are you actually non binary? Or do you want to be female full on?
I would be one to ask my therapist what they were and to think about it. It really sux having a little knowledge about psychology maybe even a better understanding than a therapist. With me it was some college, then figured out parapsychology was way more interesting but no kind of courses for it and then just pretty much learning the rest on my own. I think I have analyzed my therapists just as much as they have analyzed me. One has even asked me freaking questions. ::) C'mon, really? But he was a good guy though and I taught him some guitar so... I got free therapy for a while. He even wanted to go on a paranormal investigation. We took him and I thought he was gonna, poop his pants at one time. ;D Just a cobweb in a basement.
what I think she's getting at is that GRS is not the only solution to the gender conflict. we've been talking more about GRS lately I think she's just giving more options.
your gender and the body parts you think you should have are actually somewhat separate things. it's possible to have a strong enough feeling aome body part being wrong, that it causes severw depression and anxiety. this isn't limited to a transgender person's chest and bottom, some people will amputate a leg because they're unable to identify with it (amputation fixes their depression, therapy does not).
no matter what gender you really are, the bosy parts that you have a strong feeling need to be fixed, will have to be fixed for you to feel comfortable. if you don't really feel that need, it would be wise to think a little more though.
Quote from: kelly_aus on September 04, 2014, 09:54:35 PM
Am I trans?
I honestly don't know. Not a clue. What I do know is that hormones and transition have made me a lot happier with myself. Guess I must be. :icon_cool:
Very intriguing... I didn't know you could go though it all, and not be certain.? :)
It is an occupational hazard for me to always question and play out the mental "What if....? game. I question, even argue with myself, over "Am I a transsexual?".
No I am not a TS
1 - I like (some) guy stuff, like fixing cars, working with my hands, etc..
2 - I am attracted to women. It is not just envy but also sexually
3 - I am not attracted sexually to guys. (TBH post HRT they are more attractive)
Yes Virginia, you really are
1 - I always hated being in my skin
2 - I always felt I was faking being a guy
3 - I devolved down to the point of being a machine, not a person. Just going through the motions of life solely to survive. No hopes wishes or dream. Bar one that was given up on a long long time ago in a galaxy far far away.
4 - I now can look at all my inglorious nakedness and smile. The big hips and now baby boobies feel so right
5 - When I am out in the real world being the real me I feel happy just being me. I achieved my life long dream of being seen as and accepted as a woman.
6 - After a nearly 40 year absence I feel alive, I feel passion. I have emotions. I feel joy, I feel pain, I feel hope, I feel fear
In spite of all these facts, I still have to remind myself "I know what does not work". I spent many decades fighting with myself. I now know what does work.
I always have to be ever vigilante for my dear old friends of Shame, Guilt, and Fear. They are the rooting squad for "Oh no you are not"
Quote from: JoanneB on September 07, 2014, 07:43:21 AM
It is an occupational hazard for me to always question and play out the mental "What if....? game. I question, even argue with myself, over "Am I a transsexual?".
No I am not a TS
1 - I like (some) guy stuff, like fixing cars, working with my hands, etc..
2 - I am attracted to women. It is not just envy but also sexually
3 - I am not attracted sexually to guys. (TBH post HRT they are more attractive)
Yes Virginia, you really are
1 - I always hated being in my skin
2 - I always felt I was faking being a guy
3 - I devolved down to the point of being a machine, not a person. Just going through the motions of life solely to survive. No hopes wishes or dream. Bar one that was given up on a long long time ago in a galaxy far far away.
4 - I now can look at all my inglorious nakedness and smile. The big hips and now baby boobies feel so right
5 - When I am out in the real world being the real me I feel happy just being me. I achieved my life long dream of being seen as and accepted as a woman.
6 - After a nearly 40 year absence I feel alive, I feel passion. I have emotions. I feel joy, I feel pain, I feel hope, I feel fear
In spite of all these facts, I still have to remind myself "I know what does not work". I spent many decades fighting with myself. I now know what does work.
I always have to be ever vigilante for my dear old friends of Shame, Guilt, and Fear. They are the rooting squad for "Oh no you are not"
just about the same for me except liking guy stuff, I really can't handle guy stuff
I think I understand. Your therapist is saying are you a woman or are you bi-gender.
Quote from: Cynthia Michelle on September 07, 2014, 03:58:22 PM
I think I understand. Your therapist is saying are you a woman or are you bi-gender.
actually I'm getting quite confused I've been happy with the term transgender. All I really know is that I'm not happy presenting male I feel so totally right as female,