Do you ever forget how to be a convincing male? I ask because over the next year, there's going to be a number of occasions where I have to be 100% male and absolutely hide my female side. Does there come a point where you've become so feminine (in posture, speaking, mannerisms etc., not just in appearance) that you just couldn't act male even if your life depended on it?
I could not act male even if my life depended on it. I also couldn't imagine having a "boy mode" even if my life depended on it. Full time is easier than you think.
why do you have to hide, if they are only occasions?
Quote from: Taka on September 07, 2014, 08:45:43 AM
why do you have to hide, if they are only occasions?
School-related functions as a parent. Don't want to make life harder than it needs to be for the kids right now.
It shouldn't be a problem Brenda, there's always a certain amount of retained hardwiring that one can draw on, I do it all the time when it's appropriate for certain times and events.
I'm on my terminal leave from the military and my commander told me if I'm caught in women's attire I'd be punished under military law. Right now I go to a group therapy for 3 hours Monday to Friday where I mainly hang out with the girls there who know I'm trans since I was originally going there dressed how I wanted to. I've been told on multiple occasions that I may be wearing guy clothes and kind of look like one with my short hair cut, but my body language and speech patterns throw everything right off whack and then I give them a huh? face. I get very surprised because I never really put active thought into any of those things but apparently my posture, walk, etc are very feminine even when I'm not thinking about it. I just hope my hair's a decent length on my official discharge/medical retirement Oct 23rd when I plan to go full time.
Unfortunately, yes, for me. At six months on HRT I was trying my level best to backpass (so I could use my still-male ID to buy a beer) and still failed. I'd only been full-time everywhere for about 2 months at that point... though I'd been FT outside of work for a bit longer than that. I think the biggest issue was that I couldn't do a convincing male voice anymore either, though.
I've been on full female HRT for over 20 years and the gonads have been gone since 2001, I can still think with both sides of my brain and act accordingly. Since I understand fully how that works I'll let this be my last post on this thread because I can already see where it's going.
Shantel : My apologies if it seemed like I was suggesting that the "hardwiring" disappears for everyone; I suspect the biggest difference for you is that you've been able to find a way to exist in this world as a non-binary person who draws on that hardwiring regularly. I admire that, and I suspect that like any "habit," periodic practice keeps the skills sharp.
To be perfectly frank, I sometimes wish now that I hadn't been so quick to eradicate every vestige of male training, as things like "remembering how to project self-confidence" would be useful now! But I was so desperate in the beginning to eliminate every reminder of maleness that triggered dysphoria... that I lost the ability to access that wiring anymore.
Thanks for the info, everyone. Most helpful.
Hopefully it'll just be these few occasions where I have to hide everything away. Sounds like resurrecting the old me won't be too much trouble when I need him. Just gotta find a way to hide the boobs and long hair, because no matter how masculine I act, those might give me away...
I could be fully dressed in boy clothes and male fail pretty hard at this point. If I were ever to dress in drag sort of speak, I think I could pull it off since I can now switch my voice back with ease but my speech pattern is very female so even with a deep voice, I would probably get odd looks if I were to try.
Perhaps they would just think you were a gay or effeminate male. Nothing wrong with being either, of course, so go for it. :)
To be honest I never thought I was a convincing male even when I was living as one 24/7. My appearance (attire, height, hair) was apparently enough for people to see me as male. My "male persona"/ presentation was always aloof and restrained, never effeminate, only because I learned at high school that was a sure fire, fast track to getting beaten up by adolescent peers insecure about their own sexuality. But yeah, I guess aloof and restrained was convincingly enough male for most. When I announced I was going to transition some were surprised but those who thought about it a bit weren't. I was also a caring, considerate, unassuming, communicative and emotional "man" - not to say cis men can't and shouldn't be those things (nor that all cis women are) just that most cis men aren't. So, convincing? Enough to get by apparently.
I was never a convincing male even before HRT. I would even get ma'am when i let my hair grow out.
Well, this one is a bit tricky one and depends on A LOT of variables. Having not seen Your picture, Brenda, I can't really speculate about appearances, but here are several general observations which are based on my life experience :).
As we all know, passing - and I mean both male and female - depends on much more than visual appearance. Those going for female presentation get eased into it and then switching for male one might require some initial "command" and mental check-ups later on in order not to slip back into female mode. For example, when going for male bathroom, I change my posture, walking and other manners completely and this does require extra effort initially and then over time. Means - we get to forget some things which were natural pre-, but now have been unlearned. But that does not mean that we cannot reach into our memory to make another use of them.
Clothes. Now, there was this curious observation which I read somewhere, that for many MtFs being dressed very feminine might make them to stand out (in a negative manner) and get clocked - because wrong choice and going for standard solutions instead of wearing what looks good body/age-wise accentuates body features which would be better left concealed. At the same time, being dressed in male attire will suddenly accentuate their femininity and make them stand out again.. So careful with that. I have found very safe and comfortable andro-style which works for me, but I dunno anything about Your preferences. Last time, when I had to attend a sort of parents' event, I dressed up in straight cut male jeans and L size Hillfiger long sleeved button-up to conceal everything (all stuff in navy blue/grey scheme). I almost freaked out when taxi driver gendered me female despite all of my efforts, but I had no issues with other parents because...
People who know You or are being introduced to You will buy into Your looks + previous knowledge. Lets say, someone will introduce You to them as John - they will never ever have an idea to think that You might actually be Jane. Sure, they might be surprised about some smaller details, but if there wont be anything else to make them suspicious (wearing neutral, male-leaning attire, controlled mannerisms etc etc etc), they will never guess. Also, stuff which You cannot explain - You can always blame that metrosexuality trend :).
And good luck with that event :).
Quote from: Juliett on September 07, 2014, 03:03:30 PM
I was never a convincing male even before HRT. I would even get ma'am when i let my hair grow out.
Judging by Your avatar - it would be an impossible mission now :).
Yes, lol I've noticed this alot. At 6 mo. Now and full time, I look in the mirror, how I walk and talk and nobody thinks to question me, and I've tried boy clothes and such and constantly have a male fail. Just like 10 minutes ago I went into truck stop to use bathroom and walked straight into woman's, with plenty of girls in there, and nobody blinked twice, and a guy followed in behind me and said "hey this isn't the guys bathroom", and turned and walked out as I stayed in and went in a stall, the other girls kinda started laughing. I finished, washed hands, and walked out. So I like to think, what would have happen if I walked in the guys bathroom and said "this isn't the girls bathroom" and walked out, would the guys in there have started laughing? I don't know. But I know that, yes it is getting extremely hard to see myself as a "guy". XD
On a side note, when dressed in "guy" mode, which is rare now anyways, that I still use a girls voice and I'm still called ma'am and miss. It just makes me laugh, lol.
it might be easier if you think of it as taking on the role of "father", rather than trying to be convincingly male.
just do what fathers do, talk like they do, walk like they do, when you act in the role as a father.
fathers are different from other men, and it might not even be a role exclusive to men.
I was never all that convincing. I tried to act male and I just came off as annoying, or scary, but never confidently masculine. I was always extremely feminine under the surface and once I learned to let that out, it sort of became the norm for me.
Quote from: Taka on September 07, 2014, 03:39:46 PM
it might be easier if you think of it as taking on the role of "father", rather than trying to be convincingly male.
Taka, you might just have hit on the most amazingly simple solution possible. Thanks!
I fall into the "not the most manly man" category too, and I think in nine months I'll definitely be on the male fail end of the gender spectrum. It's such an odd situation too - these are people I don't give two hoots about, but who could probably make life difficult for my kids because it's one of those perfect storms of religion, conservative politics, and lack of education.
I can only do what I can do. Put on the suit, bind boobs, remove nail polish, brush hair like...er, a guy with a girl's haircut? I can see this going badly wrong already...
Quote from: ♡ Emily ♡ on September 07, 2014, 03:11:47 PM
Judging by Your avatar - it would be an impossible mission now :).
That is the sweetest thing anyone has ever said to me. <3
Quote from: Juliett on September 07, 2014, 05:25:13 PM
That is the sweetest thing anyone has ever said to me. <3
Well, it is true Hun, you look all woman to me. =) Kudos, with dashes of jealousy. *Sounds like a tasty dish* >.> (I see what I did there)
Quote from: Brenda E on September 07, 2014, 05:01:30 PM
I can only do what I can do. Put on the suit, bind boobs, remove nail polish, brush hair like...er, a guy with a girl's haircut? I can see this going badly wrong already...
Ummm, lets see. Can You tie Your hair in ponytail or maybe comb it back and fix with lots and lots of gel? Personally, I hate that option but sometimes that's the only one cause the look is distinctively male and helps to take away attention from hair length and other small "discrepancies". Is wearing a suit mandatory? Cause if not, I would not... It is very distinctively male attire and it tends to accentuate features which we are now lacking - and somehow exaggerating the femininity. If absolutely necessary - there are cuts leaning towards more andro (mostly waist-tailored), if not - I would go with something slightly longer and a bit draping, like cardigan or something like that - if size is big enough it can hide bewbs perfectly, plus the way it falls down, it tends to take away attention from waistline/hips area.
To be honest it took a lot of work for me to look and act like I was a male. And besides I can't even remember the last time I had to act like a male fully? And I have no intent or desire to have to ever have to again anyways.
Fortunately for me, I was never a convincing male ;D
Huggs
Catherine
Those of you who know me prolly know how I'm going to answer this, lol! :D I never was able to be a convincing male. First there are my features, small and feminine, my proportions, also very feminine. But most important is how I carry myself, and how I walk, and talk, how I use my hands and carry them when I walk. My long straight black hair didn't help either. However when I had it cut short it still didn't matter. I just made an awful excuse for a guy.
So in short, not if my life or if all life on planet Earth depended on it, lol!
Ally :icon_flower:
Quote from: Brenda E on September 07, 2014, 05:01:30 PM
Taka, you might just have hit on the most amazingly simple solution possible. Thanks!
I fall into the "not the most manly man" category too, and I think in nine months I'll definitely be on the male fail end of the gender spectrum. It's such an odd situation too - these are people I don't give two hoots about, but who could probably make life difficult for my kids because it's one of those perfect storms of religion, conservative politics, and lack of education.
I can only do what I can do. Put on the suit, bind boobs, remove nail polish, brush hair like...er, a guy with a girl's haircut? I can see this going badly wrong already...
as soon as you say you are the kids' father... people will probably just accept that.
so you don't look manly, but if you do what fathers are supposed to do, nobody can criticize you.
how can anyone blame someone for doing their very best at looking manly for their children's sake?
have confidence in your role as father, even if you no longer fit in the role as male. they really are different roles.
and don't let anyone even think that you are wrong, you're doing the right thing aren't you?
Quote from: Taka on September 08, 2014, 03:04:22 AM
as soon as you say you are the kids' father... people will probably just accept that.
so you don't look manly, but if you do what fathers are supposed to do, nobody can criticize you.
how can anyone blame someone for doing their very best at looking manly for their children's sake?
have confidence in your role as father, even if you no longer fit in the role as male. they really are different roles.
and don't let anyone even think that you are wrong, you're doing the right thing aren't you?
And I can attest that fathers are granted much more leevay in their expression in comparison with "simply males", especially when having younger kids. You can be childish, open, emotional, whatever... sadly, not all dads are using this opportunity and still exert that stiff behaviour of emotional level of a brick...
While i still technically present at work as male. I have just been letting myself be free. As such I don't think I've forgotten necessarily how to pass as male. Instead, I now don't have the same pressures on how to be male. Those pressures which controlled my behavior in a way that made me seem male.
I feel happy and free, and just act normal, feme as that may be. Without the voice in my head telling me "that's not how men act," "do this," "don't do that."
I even feel like a better human being for it, because I can listen to my heart, instead of my dysphoria. The freedom makes me happier, and I think my colleagues notice that change (if only subconsciously) and we work together much better now.
I could probably remember how to pass as male. As much as I despise my masculine side, I'd do it to protect the children for such an event. But sooner or later, my happy and unrestricted side will catch up. Then I'd be caught smiling, laughing or giggling. Then the gig would be up. Can't stay stoic forever - not anymore.
Quote from: ♡ Emily ♡ on September 07, 2014, 10:55:01 PM
Ummm, lets see. Can You tie Your hair in ponytail or maybe comb it back and fix with lots and lots of gel?
That, plus an ill-fitting baggy suit, and I'd look like a Colombian drug lord's sidekick from an eighties crime movie.
Quote from: Brenda E on September 08, 2014, 05:17:53 PM
That, plus an ill-fitting baggy suit, and I'd look like a Colombian drug lord's sidekick from an eighties crime movie.
You wont believe but that was exactly the image I had in my mind. Well, sometimes You just have to do it :).