Hi All,
So this has been bugging me for a while now. I'm under the impression that it's much easier to get a orchiectomy than SRS. Am I right about this?
It just seems that the two procedure both make a permanent change to your body that can't be undone. Both make you sterile and stop T production. Is it because of safety concerns and the fact that it's more invasive that SRS is much harder to get past the gatekeepers.
Here's the thing, I would prefer to get SRS at the start of my transition. I guess I could get an orchi but it could affect my SRS.
It just seems like SRS at the beginning is a more logical approach to the whole transition. If I could seriously change my body at any time with an orchiectomy why shouldn't I be able to also have an SRS whenever I want?
Anyway, just curious what everyone thinks.
Thanks,
Paige :)
Could not agree with you more you would think SRS would be the same as getting your testicles removed and should be just as easy the only thing I can think of is SRS has more complications and harder if not impossible to undo
The one thing to consider is that if you get orchiectomy, most gcs surgeons will not give you gcs with depth. You will have to get the colon version. Brassard will only give you a no depth vj for example. So it is important to make your choice carefully.
It's *easier* to get an orchi, but I don't think it's so easy that it could be done pre-transition. (Unfortunately. My views, as I've stated elsewhere, are that trans people should have the same right as cis people to get "cosmetic" surgery done, even if sometimes it might be a mistake.)
Myarkstir : My understanding about Brassard from when I was there in 2012 is that he will in fact do full-depth GRS, but the orchi has to be done with that in mind, meaning the orchi surgeon tried to minimize scarring and arrange for the best scar placement. At least one woman I was there with had had an orchi about 10 years before, and had no trouble; she wasn't even the one who needed the thigh skin graft to increase depth. In general, I think that if GRS is likely to be desired later on, it's wise to contact one's preferred GRS surgeon and get their opinion/requirements before doing an orchi.
Orchiectomy does not physically alter your appearence or functional anatomy. Yes the testicles are gone but men with testicular cancer do not feel the need to transition. Erections are still possible and the normal process of orgasm remains the same.
SRS / GRS / GCS physically alters your functional anatomy. permanently. There is no going back and there are people who regret this process on this forum. There has been discussions about the need for one year RLE before surgery. For a real minority non-RLE may be their only path. But for the vast majority the gates are placed there for a reason. The first weeks are full of elation - but the mundane realization of daily dilation (upto 2-3 hours a day depending upon technique), risks of infection etc quickly eat into that. And can very quickly lead to depression.
Unless you are 150% sure of your path and have no other comorbidalities (other issues) then it can be done within a year of starting RLE. But it really is not a decision to be taken lightly as a "quick fix".
Quote from: Jenna Marie on September 07, 2014, 11:24:25 AM
It's *easier* to get an orchi, but I don't think it's so easy that it could be done pre-transition. (Unfortunately. My views, as I've stated elsewhere, are that trans people should have the same right as cis people to get "cosmetic" surgery done, even if sometimes it might be a mistake.)
Myarkstir : My understanding about Brassard from when I was there in 2012 is that he will in fact do full-depth GRS, but the orchi has to be done with that in mind, meaning the orchi surgeon tried to minimize scarring and arrange for the best scar placement. At least one woman I was there with had had an orchi about 10 years before, and had no trouble; she wasn't even the one who needed the thigh skin graft to increase depth. In general, I think that if GRS is likely to be desired later on, it's wise to contact one's preferred GRS surgeon and get their opinion/requirements before doing an orchi.
My confirmation papers clearly state orchi = no depth only
Myarkstir : That's interesting. I wonder why he changed it? My own confirmation papers didn't say that, but it *was* 2 years ago...
If you're going to Brassard, I will warn you that like 2/3 of the informational packet is not accurate. :) I got there and they already had underpants/pads/etc. and the soap instructions weren't necessary either, and so on. I think they've been using the same forms for years and years without updating them!
No worries for me Izzy lives 30 minutes from here and is helping me/mentoring me lol. Also Brassard made several changes in the last 2 years. For example I asked about there voice operation dr Belanger straight out tild me they had too many failures with it so now they require 1 year of orthophonist followup before they will do it. They could have just taken my money and say nothing but they didn't
Myarkstir : Wow! And yeah, good for them.
I wonder if they had similar poor outcomes with post-orchi patients, then. (I have no idea how my surgery companion fared either after she left the residence, to be honest.) Well, it's important to get the word out about him, you're right.
So, at the beginning of transition I was one of the people who was all gung-ho about SRS and insistent that the 1 year of RLE shouldn't be necessary. I wanted the surgery really badly, to the point that it was making me cry, and I hated that I had to wait in order to get it.
Well... I'm glad that I waited. Because I honestly don't think I would have been mentally ready for it at the time. I know for me, and probably for a lot of people in that similar situation, we look at SRS as this sort of ultimate confirming thing that would validate our womanhood, and imagine that somehow we'd be more comfortable presenting as female in public if we had the proper anatomy.
Well, as it turns out, I really needed to go full-time before I could have made an informed decision. Because going full-time was what I really needed to validate my femaleness, not a surgery that's almost completely just a cosmetic procedure for the comfort of the subject that has NO effect whatsoever on your social life. It changes nothing about how you look. (Like, seriously, how many people see you naked in your entire adult lifetime? Like 5? 6 maybe?)
What I'm saying is that to me surgery was the biggest deal in the world pre-transition, but it's because I wasn't full-time, and I was looking for some sort of grand feminizing confirmation that would solidify my place in the world as a woman. And I believe that there are many others out there just like me.
It's VERY hard to tell what you really are going to be comfortable with early in transition, because it's a period of such rapid change, and so many hypotheticals floating around. Having gone to support groups for quite a while, I've noticed that just about everyone goes through a "confirmation" phase where they're basically doing everything they can to assert their femaleness and feel validated after a lifetime of being forced to suppress it. And I've met a LOT of people were completely transfixed on SRS early in transition who later decided that they didn't even want it once they'd been full-time for the required year. (I do still kind of want it, but it's no longer an "OMG I HAVE to have it!"
IMO, you really need to be full-time in your new gender role for a while, and settle in, and get past that "confirmation" phase and into the phase where being female is just a mundane part of your life that you don't even think about anymore, before you can really work out your thoughts on the matter.
I'm not saying that nobody should get it early, because some people really are that certain about it, I'm just saying that for many they really do need the RLE first.
I just wonder the same Jenna with if the skin grafts on post orchi patients has caused less then successful results and now made it a requirement for no GCS?
As for GCS before transition. Talking about setting yourself up for a very rude awaking.
It's no picnic, it is a whole year of your life dedicated to your Vajayjay.
So many with in realistic expectations.
Transition sorry to say was the hardest thing I ever did in my life, to live my life as female.
Still shaking my head. Sigh!!!
What Carrie Liz said.
I never thought I could wait the required time before I got SRS, I felt I needed it NOW!! But truth be told I was not ready, transition is the hardest part, learning to feel comfortable in any situation, dealing with friends, family, co-workers, and after a while being authentic without trying; even finding your style. Anyway I had SRS 6 years after starting hormones, and 5 years after going full time. I had the money, so that was not the issue, I started to realize I was already living as a woman and that the surgery wasn't as urgent. When I finally had it (4 months ago) it was rather anti-climatic. I'm glad I had it, hell I'm ecstatic, but other than the aftercare, it was a piece of cake. The aftercare now isn't even that bad, just bothersome at times
Quote from: Paige on September 07, 2014, 10:36:26 AM
Hi All,
Here's the thing, I would prefer to get SRS at the start of my transition. I guess I could get an orchi but it could affect my SRS.
It just seems like SRS at the beginning is a more logical approach to the whole transition. If I could seriously change my body at any time with an orchiectomy why shouldn't I be able to also have an SRS whenever I want?
Anyway, just curious what everyone thinks.
Thanks,
Paige :)
Hi Paige!
Setting aside the pros and cons of getting an orchi as of now, why do you think that getting SRS (the most totally irreversible step in the transition process) done from the outset looks like the most logical place to start your transition ?
Hugs
Donna
Quote from: Monkeymel on September 07, 2014, 11:28:54 AM
Orchiectomy does not physically alter your appearence or functional anatomy. Yes the testicles are gone but men with testicular cancer do not feel the need to transition. Erections are still possible and the normal process of orgasm remains the same.
Wait what ? I never knew this so you can still bust one and get hard with the balls gone ? That is the main reason I want mines gone and to be able to tuck better
Quote from: TinaVane on September 08, 2014, 03:21:38 AM
Wait what ? I never knew this so you can still bust one and get hard with the balls gone ? That is the main reason I want mines gone and to be able to tuck better
I've asked about it in the past as well, and another transwoman seconded M's words. Even with your testicles gone, you will still be struggling with erections and tucking. and having orchi done may obstacle the success of your srs. Keep your money and dont do it :)
The testes are the primary, but not the only, source of T production in the male body. As noted above an orchi won't stop all sexual function of the penis.
Paige, the reason SRS is harder to get than an orchi is because SRS is an incredibly more complex procedure - many fewer surgeons can do it.
Thanks everyone for the responses. :)
Quote from: Ms Grace on September 08, 2014, 05:43:15 AM
Paige, the reason SRS is harder to get than an orchi is because SRS is an incredibly more complex procedure - many fewer surgeons can do it.
Hi Ms Grace,
I guess it's more complicated but wouldn't the fact that it's expensive be enough to stop an increase in surgeries? I got to think my approach would be rare anyway. As someone else said bodies are being operated on all the time and pretty drastically without this sort of gatekeeper restriction. It does seem a bit like discrimination against transgenders.
Maybe I'm a little nuts to think this, but my motivation for asking this is that in my dream I would like my wife to get use to the changes before anyone else. I could be wrong but I would think you could live your whole life without the world knowing you've had SRS.
So in my dream world, ;) here's the order I would like to transition.
1) SRS
2) start HRT, maybe low dose at first
3) start body hair removal
4) hair transplant
5) voice surgery about a year after SRS
Depending on how the hormones affect me, I could stay stealth for a while where only my wife and I know.
Crazy idea?
Paige :)
Quote from: Paige on September 08, 2014, 12:22:10 PM
Crazy idea?
In my personal opinion it is illogical. You want to do everything in the reverse order you should for a stable and successful transition.
The surgeons I have been talking to require HRT before SRS. I believe you would be best off at this point to consult a Therapist preferably with gender experience. They can make sure that your transition goes as smooth as possible and you will have to have two letters anyway before you can get SRS. Most areas even require one letter for HRT. Please get some expert guidance before you plan to far ahead. :)
"Orchiectomy does not physically alter your appearence or functional anatomy. Yes the testicles are gone but men with testicular cancer do not feel the need to transition. Erections are still possible and the normal process of orgasm remains the same".
I have to respectfully disagree on this. While an orchiectomy doesn't alter your functional anatomy altogether, it can affect erections & the libido both, far more than before the procedure. And the orgasm is not the same, it's a drier release & the fluid is much clearer. I speak from my own personal experience here. One would have to take testosterone supplements to restore a healthy libido in a fair number of cases. And men with testicular cancer likely aren't on lifelong estrogen therapy as transwomen are, so it really isn't the same comparison.
As for an orchiectomy not altering one's physical appearance, that also isn't altogether true. Provided one continues on estrogen therapy after the surgery, the feminizing effects become more pronounced as estrogen can work unopposed & unhindered after the massive drop in T levels. Even if one isn't on hormones, there is still some feminizing effect, though not as much as if one were on HRT. Besides which, an orchiectomy is irreversible, so if a transwoman ever had to stop taking hormones for a financial or medical reason, there is no masculinization reversion, so the feminine effects are locked in, along with there being a greater psychological effect to the individual.
Unfortunately, many of us haven't got the funds for SRS, which I would have preferred over having an orchi, but personally speaking, I have no regrets in doing it. My self-confidence has gradually increased & I feel much better about myself. I'm still planning on SRS someday. However, if it doesn't happen due to lack of funds, I am very pleased that I'll never produce massive amounts of testosterone again. Having the T factories gone means freedom for me. I'm enjoying the bulge reduction & tucking is far easier. My quality of life is better.
Ultimately, it's a decision that varies from person to person. Some may have been able to put money aside for SRS, in which case, I might wait & have castration done then. But in my opinion, while an orchi isn't as invasive as SRS, it's certainly a viable precursor.
Quote from: Paige on September 08, 2014, 12:22:10 PM
So in my dream world, ;) here's the order I would like to transition.
1) SRS
2) start HRT, maybe low dose at first
Speaking as someone who'd also prefer to get SRS before social transition, I'd definitely recommend doing HRT before everything else. It's quite enlightening, and could change you thinking about everything. And what if you didn't like it? It's easy enough to start HRT and I think by far the safest option. I'd go so far as to say the other way is dangerously risky (assuming you're not non-binary anyway, no idea about that).
I'd also suggest that if you want to do something so far outside the norm, and do somehow work out a way of achieving it, that you make as sure as far as possible that are mentally capable of fully understanding what you are doing (I'm not suggesting you're not, but its something to be careful of).
I've had no trouble real hiding the effects of HRT for 5 years, although I guess that depends on the size of your breasts and what clothing you can wear.
I believe the reason its more difficult to get SRS than orchiectomy is cultural, rather than a shortage of doctors. We (or most of us) live in a capitalistic society and supply and demand would soon fix that. Also note that the WPATH Standards Of Care has the same requirements for both, with the additional requirement of 1 year RLE for SRS, and I don't see that as being related to the supply of doctors. I don't see much difference in the risks between orhci and SRS, but that could just be me, and also that I've not had either.
Thank you Genevieve - I stand corrected.
My perspective was from someone having oriechtomy without feminising hrt / transition (I know someone who had it from cancer). I agree with you that if on estrogen then it is a whole different process. I've just completed my srs and still getting used to all the new plumbing, required dilating schedules and possible infections. Bed rests, inflammation, sore muscles, still inflamed clitoral hood, daily bleeding, douching. Jumping straight to srs without being 150% sure is a massive undertaking.
@Monkeymel: You're only human like the rest of us, so you're entitled. I just felt compelled to share my thoughts & experience on the matter.
Sorry to hear about your post-surgical healing, etc... I hope it all improves before long & that you settle into a routine soon. Also: congrats on your SRS. Here's to hoping you'll be up & running in no time. :-)
Question a lil off topic is it true that every doctor want a letter before they do the orchie on you in the states ? Why I plan on going to Mexico for my orchie (plus other surgeries ) because I'm not a dan of being psychoanalyzed I been living as a woman since I changed my name in 95/96. I would do it here in the states if I don't need to go see a psyche.
Not every, but most reputable Doctors require the standard two letters of clearance from licensed professionals that would attest to the fact that the patient has undergone sufficient clinical therapy for gender dysphoria & is under an endocrinologists care for hormone replacement treatment (I underwent one session in which two doctors were present & was asked a series of basic-related questions before given approval). Not really that big of a deal & it's all pretty routine. Like SRS, Orchiectomy/Castration is, as you know, an irreversible surgical procedure & physicians want the patient to be absolutely certain & clear it's a step they're ready for, as there's no reversal once it's been done. The clearance letters also protect the doctors from a legal standpoint, which is totally understandable.
My thoughts are with either GCS or an orchie you are committing to a lifetime of endogenous hormone use.... With an orchie however it would still be possible to "go back"... I mean you could just take T and Id think that would restore male function, but Im no doc..... (Not that I want to even think about doing that, just saying)... With GCS while I guess you could take T if you had regrets and wanted to live as a male again that dont sound very good to me... But the fact is you need sex hormones just to maintain good health, male or female....
So really OP you are illogical here and thats a big part of why I think the GCS surgeons require at least a year on HRT, you'll be taking E for life....
As someone who's still pretty early in transition GCS seems pretty far away for me... Id have to have my hair restored for one and unfortunately for me that could take YEARS right there and it may not even be possible... The thought of wearing a wig for the rest of my life is depressing.... Id also want more time on HRT to feminize, its only been about 6 months for me.... And last Id definitely want at least a year of RLE.... I have been "full time" for 8 months now, BUT that doesnt include working a real job as a woman, thats my next step and Ive been looking.... Thats an eye opening experience right there because while I "pass" I know Im nowhere near "stealth" YET... Fortunately for me the $$$ is not a problem so its not an urgent need just something I want to do and a little extra cash cant hurt either... Also my state of birth and residence wont change the gender marker on my BC or DL without GCS but they would with an orchie, Hmn....
SO since I THINK Im YEARS away from GCS even though I have the $$$, an orchie is looking better and better to me by the day... Even though my T is cratered well to the bottom of the female range on HRT.... Id like to reduce the AA's and hopefully feminize better... I think Id also like the psychological effect mentioned of KNOWING those little poison factories are GONE for GOOD =) That right there seems huge to me and yes it would be much easier to tuck too .)
I think I will bring his up with my psych next time I see him, I could see doing this within months actually...
There have been some good points made here, I just thought Id ad mine....
Hi all, This is my first post so be nice please :) Having had an Orchie back in 2010 after 3 years taking hormones I felt I could comment on it's effects. An Orchie isn't a substitute for SRS all it will allow is a smaller dose of Estrogen due to there being less Testosterone, The physical appearance of the male parts are altered slightly and as people have said erections and orgasm are still similar to what was possible before although what comes out isn't anything like it was. I'm not sure my libido was altered as that had already gone due to the hormones long before the surgeon did anything. I have to say psychologically the feeling I had was well now you cannot go back (not that I would want to) I took it as am impetus to keep going and get my SRS.
As for the question of starting transition with SRS? I don't think this would be a good way to go, There are many milestones along the way and passing them helps you decide that what you are doing either is or isn't the right thing, Odd as it may seem people do back out just before the op and some even have regrets after. People also start transition and realise it isn't what they really want. The RLE isn't just there for the doctors to hold you back, It also serves to allow us time to make sure what we're doing is the right thing for us.
^^^^^
This in my opinion.
I'm full time, and GCS surgery booked for next year. I still have doubts and I definitely needed RLE in order to be me.
Hi SorchaC, and welcome to Susans! We have people come to visit us from all over the world, expressing different points of view, and you are likely to find someone to help you along your way :) Here are some important links and things to ponder as you begin your journey here.
- Site Terms of Service and rules to live by (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,2.0.html)
- Standard Terms and Definitions (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,54369.0.html)
- Post Ranks ( including when you can upload an avatar/post links and photos) (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,114.0.html.)
- Age and the Forum (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,62197.msg405545.html#msg405545)
- Reputation rules (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,18960.0.html)
Hi Jessica,
Sorry for the slow response, I've been a bit busy the last couple of days.
Quote from: Jessica Merriman on September 08, 2014, 12:29:44 PM
In my personal opinion it is illogical. You want to do everything in the reverse order you should for a stable and successful transition.
The surgeons I have been talking to require HRT before SRS. I believe you would be best off at this point to consult a Therapist preferably with gender experience. They can make sure that your transition goes as smooth as possible and you will have to have two letters anyway before you can get SRS. Most areas even require one letter for HRT. Please get some expert guidance before you plan to far ahead. :)
I'm not married to this idea, but I do think it's good to think outside the box sometimes. If you go back 30 or 40 years and look at all the changes that have occurred to how transgender people are treated by the medical community, you see the only constant is change. Maybe this seems different than the standard course of care, but is there really any data that says this wouldn't work? Probably the only information you could get any idea on how effective or not this idea would be is from people who've had orchis early on in their transition. But I imagine it would be a small group and very hard to make any conclusions on how successful this approach would be.
By the way, I have a very good therapist, but thanks for caring.
Paige :)
Quote from: Donna E on September 08, 2014, 01:17:25 AM
Hi Paige!
Setting aside the pros and cons of getting an orchi as of now, why do you think that getting SRS (the most totally irreversible step in the transition process) done from the outset looks like the most logical place to start your transition ?
Hugs
Donna
Hi Donna,
Perhaps "irreversible" is the crux of this whole discussion. It's impossible for me to say that I wouldn't have second thoughts after such a procedure. But I find it very hard to believe that after years of hating (that would be with a capital H) what's between my legs I would somehow miss it. Lord knows I inflicted enough abuse on this area because of that hate. Even if I decided to stop transitioning I would be quite happy with the change below and no one would really need to know except my wife and my doctors.
On a more positive note I really like the idea of having this little secret with my wife that nobody else needs to know about until I'm much farther along in transitioning.
As I said to Jessica, I'm not married to this idea, just thinking outside the box.
Take care Donna,
Paige :)
"Hi all, This is my first post so be nice please :) Having had an Orchie back in 2010 after 3 years taking hormones I felt I could comment on it's effects. An Orchie isn't a substitute for SRS all it will allow is a smaller dose of Estrogen due to there being less Testosterone, The physical appearance of the male parts are altered slightly and as people have said erections and orgasm are still similar to what was possible before although what comes out isn't anything like it was".
Hi Sorcha,
I'm new here as well, so you're in good company. :-)
Of course, each person has varying experiences along their transitional journey. In many instances an Orchiectomy is performed for girls in transition instead of SRS. After it's completed & the body gradually begins to adjust to the massive drop in T levels, a sense of liberation surfaces. I had been on a healthy dose of Spironolactone just under two decades & the whole time my T levels were just as high as my estrogen levels, conflicting with each other which was very frustrating. I had been strongly advised by my endocrinologist (that the only way to successfully counteract the testosterone was) to have an Orchiectomy. Finally had it done last year & not only have my T levels dropped to below that of a genetic female, but the estrogen effects became more apparent. More pronounced.
While it is certainly true as you say, estrogen doses can be lowered, not having to ever take T blockers again or even a reduced dosage is less taxing on the liver, kidneys & there is no further need to worry about blocking testosterone by taking said blockers. If one goes off them for medical or financial reasons, there is no worry of a resurface of T to undo an orchiectomy's effects. So, while blockers have their use, & can lower levels as long as one continues their regimen, castration is a good notch above that ensures no reversal of masculinization if one had to cease medication for whatever reason, & there's less bulk than if one were on blockers, even with the shrinkage from taking them for years.
I have found at least in my case, features have gotten softer & my shape is slightly rounder as opposed to before. Also, one is endocrinologically the same as a transwoman whose undergone complete SRS. I can also attest that my libido is alot lower than it was before & the orgasm is clear. I've heard this to be true of other girls who have had the procedure done as well. It's as I said, everyone's experience varies on this journey, but it's good to share thoughts on these issues & hopefully be an inspiration or somewhat of a reference guide to others on our experiences, thoughts & opinions. :-)
Eva,
Very well said. :-)
"This in my opinion.
I'm full time, and GCS surgery booked for next year. I still have doubts and I definitely needed RLE in order to be me".
Hi Cindy :-)
I absolutely agree agree with that. There's a reason why physicians require us to do the RLE. Life-changing procedures have no margin for error, which is why it's good to be certain. :-)
Hi Genevieve and Cindy and thank you for the welcome :)
I certainly agree with RLE first before any surgery, I had to go full time even before getting hormones as my Psychiatrist refused me any help until I was full time and had legally changed my name ??? It wasn't that he doubted my being TG just that back then these were the rules set for him to follow by UK NHS. He later admitted he had no doubts about me other than he wasn't sure I would leave the life I had for transition but once I had started he put me on hormones 4 months after going full time which was 6-8 months before they said he should. I don't think anybody should have surgical intervention until they have lived full time unless it's FFS owing to them having obvious male features that cannot be hidden any other way.
Sorcha :)
I would say at least start out by getting your hair removed first if it is a problem for you. The only good sign of having an orchie is that you will not have to take any anti testosterone drugs that can affect your liver. Depending on the surgeon doing it , may or may not leave enough skin left for depth.
The second thing to do is HRT.
But first before any of this, please talk to a gender therapist first to sort out your feelings.
One of the things a therapist will tell you is you have to do a RLE(real life experience).
This will help you to interact with people, you don't want to go cold turkey as you may be seriously hurt by some people. As you want to be able to pass as a woman
Please pay attention to the advice that you receive from people here. There are many years of experience here
I think besides the pros an cons that have been mentioned by others on here i think you will have a very hard time finding any reputable doctor doing srs on you if you are not already presenting as a female as a matter of fact i dont think any doctor in North America,Europe and any of the big names in Thailand would do it.You might finds some back ally clinic in Thailand or Mexico willing to perfom surgery on you but that is not something i think you should consider.
I'll grant that I'm not exactly the pin-up girl for RLE and SRS success, given that I regret it. That said, I had 26 months of RLE before I had SRS. I am certain that my difficulties would have been far greater if I had not done RLE first. I did contemplate the question of "what if I can't get to the point of being FT before SRS?" Fortunately, my employer finally gave on the particular sticking point (for about a month they were unwilling to allow me to transition until I had updated my gender marker with the SSA and state, which required SRS at that time, so I was in a Catch-22.)
As for letters, I can't speak to orchi but I know a lot of SRS surgeons who didn't require letters a decade or so ago now do. Further, I'm finding that it's a common requirement even for breast augmentation post-SRS (I've consulted with surgeons from east to west coast across the US about BA and all but one required a letter; of those that did, they're split on if I can reuse my SRS letters or if I need to provide them with a new letter. The ones who allowed reusing the letters were often apologetic about requiring one since I'd had SRS.)
That said, "presenting female" seems to be a fairly low bar to many of the surgeons. I know that the first time I saw Dr. Brassard I was already in scrubs and it was just minutes before my surgery, and the evening staff at the hospital saw me in rather ill-fitting jeans and a baggy t-shirt that was from my guy-mode days (IT conference swag from the dot-com heyday.)
Quote from: Agent_J on September 17, 2014, 02:56:44 PM
That said, "presenting female" seems to be a fairly low bar to many of the surgeons. I know that the first time I saw Dr. Brassard I was already in scrubs and it was just minutes before my surgery, and the evening staff at the hospital saw me in rather ill-fitting jeans and a baggy t-shirt that was from my guy-mode days (IT conference swag from the dot-com heyday.)
I'd have to agree with you here Agent_J, Psyches insist on presenting as the gender you identify as only to prove that you are able to live in society as that gender. When I went full time I started a Beauty Therapy course in College and that carried more weight than what clothes I wore when I saw Dr Board in the subsequent meetings.
Apart from any other reason the RLE has been enough for some, They simply are happy being seen and treated as women and some even enjoy a happy sex life still having the genitals they were born with but presenting as women. Also apart from doctors and you partner not many people get to see your genitals and so wouldn't know whether you're pre or post op unless you told them which is why SRS is not really the main definition of what your gender is.
Hugs
Sorcha ;D
Hi teeg
please don't take this the wrong way, but I'm going to rewrite your comments to make a point.
Quote from: teeg on September 18, 2014, 06:13:02 PM
I had no problem following the correct path to SRS nor did most other people. If anything this impatient attitude will only cause you more stress when you figure out that SRS isn't some magic fix.
I had no problem being male nor do most other men. If anything this impatient attitude will only cause you more stress when you figure out that changing gender isn't some magic fix.
Quote from: teeg on September 18, 2014, 06:13:02 PM
I don't understand people saying this. Your penis is another part of your incorrect male body. All these stories about self castration are so pointless. If you cut off your penis, then what? What about your male face? Voice? Body? Hair? It's really close illogical.
I don't understand people saying this. Your penis is another part of your male body. All these stories about transgender are so pointless. If you cut off your penis, then what? What about your male face? Voice? Body? Hair? It's really close illogical.
Quote from: teeg on September 18, 2014, 06:13:02 PM
Why would you stop though? You'd be left with a vagina and a male body? Personally I don't believe in this non-binary thing at all. Many LGBT people I talk to laugh at the idea of it. You're either a male or female. Somewhere in between (I'm talking having a penis and boobs not what you wear or how you act) isn't natural. Down vote me for this post as well. I'm just saying what everyone else out there is thinking.
Why would you stop though? You'd be left with a vagina and a male body? Personally I don't believe in this transgender thing at all. Many people I talk to laugh at the idea of it. You're either a male or female. Somewhere in between isn't natural. Down vote me for this post as well. I'm just saying what everyone else out there is thinking.
Personally I can't really relate to what a lot of other people here feel, but I can accept it (FTM, why oh why would any women want to become a man).
Quote from: AnonyMs on September 18, 2014, 06:47:34 PM
Hi teeg
please don't take this the wrong way, but I'm going to rewrite your comments to make a point.
I had no problem being male nor do most other men. If anything this impatient attitude will only cause you more stress when you figure out that changing gender isn't some magic fix.
I don't understand people saying this. Your penis is another part of your male body. All these stories about transgender are so pointless. If you cut off your penis, then what? What about your male face? Voice? Body? Hair? It's really close illogical.
Why would you stop though? You'd be left with a vagina and a male body? Personally I don't believe in this transgender thing at all. Many people I talk to laugh at the idea of it. You're either a male or female. Somewhere in between isn't natural. Down vote me for this post as well. I'm just saying what everyone else out there is thinking.
Personally I can't really relate to what a lot of other people here feel, but I can accept it (FTM, why oh why would any women want to become a man).
AnonyMs I personally I don't understand most of this above post which is why I've quoted it, I absolutely agree with your right to have any opinion you want but I don't understand the point you were trying to make :) I have to add however that FTM are not women who want to be men anymore than MTF are men wanting to be women. We are what we are and all we are doing is setting the body we have to match what we believe we are :) I certainly wouldn't thank you for calling me a man no matter what anatomical features my body has.
I am not trying to upset anybody so please don't think I'm attacking anybody I just wanted to give my opinion on this
Hugs
Sorcha ;D
Hi Sorcha, I guess I was a bit too subtle in my point. I was trying to avoid giving offence and I'm not used to writing like this.
As the original posted has been removed I'll just address the ftm bit. It was carelessly written, but thinking about it I'm not sure how to express it properly. I get tangled up in words and definitions. I am m2f, and have been on hrt for more than 5 years, but for all that I can't really relate to going the other way. Even considering that we're all just being true to our real identity, I still don't really relate to it. I don't really understand non-binary either. And I certainly don't understand why people jump out of airplanes for fun. But none of that stops me accepting people who do any of those things. The purpose of that sentence was simply to express tolerance and acceptance for those who are different (to me).
hi
i have been on just antiandrogens for 6 1/2 months.for me part of this was to see if my feelings changed once the male hormones were reduced. rather than have an irreversable operation which i may regret later. i still have my gender feelings and would love srs but that thought that its the most important thing certainly deminished. just adapting to the reality of finally being hounest with myself is taking time. time is the thing you need to use to find out what you really want. if you are unhappy now try to imagine how you will feel if it turns out to be not what you expected.
Quote from: AnonyMs on September 19, 2014, 03:36:31 AM
Even considering that we're all just being true to our real identity, I still don't really relate to it. I don't really understand non-binary either. And I certainly don't understand why people jump out of airplanes for fun. But none of that stops me accepting people who do any of those things. The purpose of that sentence was simply to express tolerance and acceptance for those who are different (to me).
Thank you AnonyMs, I get your point. :) We should all know by now that one size does not fit all. Maybe something doesn't seem natural or logical to you but in dismissing it are we not just as guilty as the people that dismiss the trangender people?
By the way SorchC, I would prefer to be a ciswoman (not going to happen), or a transwoman but I wouldn't mine at all being a man with a vagina. I have some very feminine features anyway. It might not feel right for you but I'm not you and it seems very logical and right to me. Is this going to happen? Probably not. But as I said before I don't think there's a problem with thinking outside the box. I also think RLE particularly the kind that was encouraged in the 80s and 90s by the psychiatric community was very cruel.
Take care,
Paige :)
P.S. Have been seeing my current therapists for 2+ years now. She's amazing and very respected.
Quote from: Paige on September 07, 2014, 10:36:26 AM
It just seems like SRS at the beginning is a more logical approach to the whole transition. If I could seriously change my body at any time with an orchiectomy why shouldn't I be able to also have an SRS whenever I want?
Anyway, just curious what everyone thinks.
Thanks,
Paige :)
Hi Paige,
In your OP you said you were curious what everyone thinks about your proposed approach to transition. If you do a synthesis of the answers, I think you'll have to agree that not many people are on the same page as you regarding the idea that starting with GRS " is a more logical approach to the whole transition" .
Someone also correctly pointed out that you might have difficulty finding a surgeon who would be willing to do the operation under such conditions.
End of the day though, it's your life and you are perfectly entitled to ignore the input that you asked for. Logic probably doesn't have much to do with it though... :)
Take care, really !
Donna
Quote from: Donna E on September 19, 2014, 03:07:46 PM
Hi Paige,
In your OP you said you were curious what everyone thinks about your proposed approach to transition. If you do a synthesis of the answers, I think you'll have to agree that not many people are on the same page as you regarding the idea that starting with GRS " is a more logical approach to the whole transition" .
Someone also correctly pointed out that you might have difficulty finding a surgeon who would be willing to do the operation under such conditions.
End of the day though, it's your life and you are perfectly entitled to ignore the input that you asked for. Logic probably doesn't have much to do with it though... :)
Take care, really !
Donna
Hi Donna,
Yes I asked for opinions and thank you and others for those opinions. I guess I should have explained my question was more theoretical. I didn't have any doubt that getting SRS before transitioning would be very difficult, if not impossible with the current restrictions. But if we lived in a different world, and these restrictions weren't in place, I think this approach might work with some people. I'm not suggesting this be done without lots of counseling.
Oh well, have a nice day.
Paige :)
I believe that i's better to become FT or t least PT before doing srs, because in many cases it's kinda the final step. I understand your point because it's better to get srs outta the way asap so that you don't need AAs anymore. Still, I think that srs shouldn't be something you do really early on, maybe I would reduce the time of HRT from 2-1 years to 6 months requirement with a lot of information given to the patients that decide to do that so that they can evaluate their decision and not regret. Although, I think that most regrets are not really caused by the time of FT or HR, but maybe they are not happy with the results of srs, or thought it would be a different experience. When srs it's actually a really hard process, especially the recovery, and having that done too early would cause more depression to some people.
I also suspect that taking away the gonads without supplementing hormones is likely to cause the adrenal glands to go in to a T production frenzy. Which is part of the reason hormones are generally required before SRS..
Quote from: Paige on September 19, 2014, 02:17:36 PM
By the way SorchC, I would prefer to be a ciswoman (not going to happen), or a transwoman but I wouldn't mine at all being a man with a vagina. I have some very feminine features anyway. It might not feel right for you but I'm not you and it seems very logical and right to me. Is this going to happen? Probably not. But as I said before I don't think there's a problem with thinking outside the box. I also think RLE particularly the kind that was encouraged in the 80s and 90s by the psychiatric community was very cruel.
I wish I'd been born with a female body as well but sadly I wasn't. Being a transwoman is as good as it will get for me and I've always known this. Being identified as male was the first of my big problems with how I was and then seeing the body just reminded me of it and till March still will :( For me it was always a case I wanted SRS and my question was What do I have to do to get it? In the UK where I was at the time they gave me a list starting with a Name Change and going Full Time, Hormones were not even an option apart from self medicating (which I considered too dangerous and expensive) for at least a year after going Full Time according to my Psyche. That's mostly changed now thankfully :) We are all different and I celebrate that :) I don't think we have to understand why people do things as long as we accept they have the right to do with their lives and bodies whatever they feel they must.
Most of us say they wouldn't do SRS before transition but that is our own opinion, I suspect the reason most if not all surgeons refuse to do it is because they have a reputation and the way the world is today with Social Media and online forums it only takes one unhappy patient with a bit of internet knowledge to effectively ruin their careers.
Quote from: kelly_aus on September 19, 2014, 10:17:09 PM
I also suspect that taking away the gonads without supplementing hormones is likely to cause the adrenal glands to go in to a T production frenzy. Which is part of the reason hormones are generally required before SRS..
After my Orchie I was told I need hormones for the rest of my life to prevent Androgen Deficiency Syndrome. That could be T or Estrogen I had the choice but I was told I needed to take one of them and you won't win a price for guessing which one I chose :) Many women in their 60's suffer from it already and they say that age group is getting younger. I won't go on about the effects of it here but I'm sure you can Google it :)
Hugs
Sorcha ;D