Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Well, it looks like I did it again and messed up. I apologize to everyone here who has been offended by recent comments especially in the non binary group. I have said in the past I am trying to learn how they think and feel and obviously have a long way to go. For some reason, ok I know what it is, but that is for another topic, I felt attacked and in my mind was attempting to defend myself from what I perceived as personal in nature. I have some issue's right now and it spilled over into the forum and that was not right. There was however no ill will directed, just poor judgment and bad wording.  :'( :'( :'(

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on September 23, 2014, 03:04:12 PM
Well, it looks like I did it again and messed up. I apologize to everyone here who has been offended by recent comments especially in the non binary group. I have said in the past I am trying to learn how they think and feel and obviously have a long way to go. For some reason, ok I know what it is, but that is for another topic, I felt attacked and in my mind was attempting to defend myself from what I perceived as personal in nature. I have some issue's right now and it spilled over into the forum and that was not right. There was however no ill will directed, just poor judgment and bad wording.  :'( :'( :'(

Not according to me dear... There is a difference between being direct and being offensive, and I do not hink your post was offensive at all !

Adult people sometimes have to agree to disagree, and when it comes to "emotional" topics, well then it may happen with a degree of discomfort to all involved. 

Next time Jessica, we're taking your IPod, and grounding you for a week..!  ;D

Please don't let things bother you, your tops in my book..!  :)

Already replied to your other topic hun, so all I'll say here is:

:)

Hey, no problem at all. :) *hugs*

Though I was looking forward to discussing the topic I posted last night after work today and discovered it was locked and deleted shortly after (a little disappointing), I don't take offense. :) We are all in different parts of our lives, and sometimes our emotions can distort our judgment, leading to conflict or perceived attacks. Goodness knows how many times I look back 5 years and see my poor judgement on people or situations. I am sure I will do the same for actions I do in my life now, 5 years down the road. Every experience, whether perceived as positive or negative, is an opportunity to learn. :) Some of the worst decisions I have ever made ended up leading to some of the best experiences of my life later on, and therefore I don't regret it happened. It's what we do after a mistake that really counts. It's important that we don't allow a negative conversation or conflict on this forum to divide us. These things just happen from time to time. Rather, if we use what has occurred as a way to bring this community CLOSER together, then it was worth it and therefore a learning experience. :)

**hugs again** <3

I feel others owe you more then you do.

You where on point, honest and with in TOS.

Some need to remember this forum is for support of others and if they feel they can not offer support they need to not post anything.

I really wonder who read the couple of posts that Susan posted yesterday?

It's her forum for all to use in a supportive manner. We all come here as equals.

I read them...

Not to worry, hon.

Quote from: peky on September 23, 2014, 03:16:34 PM
Not according to me dear... There is a difference between being direct and being offensive, and I do not hink your post was offensive at all !

Adult people sometimes have to agree to disagree, and when it comes to "emotional" topics, well then it may happen with a degree of discomfort to all involved.

I agree with peky on this.

Besides, this is just me and pertains to no one else, I need to hear the truth no matter how ugly it may be to me. But I'm not easily offended though and don't think I have ever been offended by anything anyone has said on this sight. I guess what I am trying to say is I'm the kind of girl you have to "slap" in order to see the "big pink elephant in the room" sometimes or I may get trampled. So if my feelings get hurt, it was probably something that I refused to face in the first place and really needed to hear. So don't worry yourself over it.

Funny, I suffer PTSD too, and it seems pretty reasonable. I know how twitchy I get when triggered. Mine isn't even all that severe anymore, but it sounds like hers is much worse.

Seriously people, if you have a hard time understanding where someone is coming from on here, ask for clarification and put some effort into trying to see their side before calling them names, smiting them and reporting them. You know, try actually discussing in a discussion.  Learn to cut people some slack too, they all can't be as perfect as you. All that does is destroy whatever value the discussion might have had and leaves more damage than anything.  And if you don't like aggressiveness, then why react so aggressively towards it?  Seems contradictory to me. Kind of like all those people that say they hate drama, but usually, they are one of the main players in any drama to be found. 

I wasn't personally involved, so I don't feel it's right for me to pass any kind of judgement on either side  :-X  At the end of the day, Jess has apologised for what she feels was a mistake.  Whether or not she needed to is besides the point as far as I'm concerned, because an apology is an apology is an apology, and whatever way you cut it, that's a brave thing to do (and a skill sorely lacking in todays society in general lol :P).

The internet is a strange thing.  Words on a screen don't easily convey essential information like tone of voice, body language, facial expressions etc.  As it turns out, words on their own can often be interpreted a million different ways.  Sometimes we get it right, other times we get the message wrong.  That's the internet and written language in general really.  That's why I always try to put personality into my writings to help convey the context and feelings of what I'm saying! :D  I've noticed over the years people understand me far better when I do that ;)

Anyway, can we all just *hug* and get back to fighting the real enemy instead of each other?  Bickering and in-fighting makes me a sad kitty.  You don't want to see little Kira sad now, do you?  :'(

..lol :D

Hey Jessica, you have to quit apologizing for having an opinion of your own and getting worked up every time some individual gets their panties in a wad. I'm with Jaime and the others on this one, these whiner types always taking exception need to get a life. You stand out as one of the most caring persons here my friend! (((BIG Hugs))) girlfriend! No more apologizing, it's entirely uncalled for!

Quote from: Shantel on September 24, 2014, 02:23:42 PM
Hey Jessica, you have to quit apologizing for having an opinion of your own and getting worked up every time some individual gets their panties in a wad. I'm with Jaime and the others on this one, these whiner types always taking exception need to get a life. You stand out as one of the most caring persons here my friend!

No more apologizing, it's entirely uncalled for!

DITO........!

You raised some good questions and points in that thread, including information and opinions from your personal and professional experience that could have added to the discussion. Unfortunately, the way someone else worded things hurt you (right from the get-go), and your first response was somewhat defensive, and then someone else was hurt by that... and when so much hurt gets tossed around, arguments always start. I understand that you mentioned you were triggered by the term privilege because of your experience of it being used as an insult. I applaud you for having the courage to step into a discussion on something that triggers you, and defend yourself. Even though my own thoughts and feelings on privilege generally and binary privilege specifically may differ from yours, I respect your opinion and the facts from your own experience that back up that opinion.

Always remember that if a discussion is making you feel uncomfortable or attacked, it is okay to defend yourself -- and it is also okay to step outside of that thread for some fresh air and self-care. It's okay to avoid reading a thread if you think it will be triggering (though I understand that intelligent people are often curious and can't help reading anything that is interesting).

Nobody wants to feel like they're having an argument or a fight instead of a discussion. And I believe nobody intended to start a fight, but it seems like one way or another, enough nerves were touched that a lot of us were drawn into one.

There are a lot of very different people here with a lot of different thoughts, feelings, lifestyles, opinions, political views, etc. and things can get heated, but in the end, this is a community of support. I think as long as everyone remembers that we are here to be kind to one another, we'll always bounce back from any argument.

...so that's my 2 cents. <3 ya, Jessica. I'm gonna go post something in that thread now, that you may or may not disagree with and may or may not read, but it doesn't mean I don't like & respect you.

It's very, very difficult to exist online without occasionally saying the wrong thing or having less-than-ideal behavior become (and remain) a public record. It gets thornier when dealing with trans experiences and identities. My language and awareness was pretty restricted when I first started dealing with things, and I'm still learning how to be respectful.

Props for apologizing, but you don't seem to have transgressed as deeply as you think you did.

Quote from: Mark3 on September 23, 2014, 04:38:05 PM
Next time Jessica, we're taking your IPod, and grounding you for a week..!  ;D

Oh the horror!!!  :icon_yikes:

Quote from: KiraD on September 24, 2014, 09:40:26 AM
You don't want to see little Kira sad now, do you?  :'(

Never in a bazillion years!!  :icon_hug: :icon_hug: :icon_hug: :icon_hug: :icon_hug:

Quote from: Shantel on September 24, 2014, 02:23:42 PM
No more apologizing, it's entirely uncalled for!

You would have just hated to be around me when I lost a patient on the helicopter. I knew it wasn't my fault, but I was terrible about second guessing myself.  :-\

Quote from: pianoforte on September 24, 2014, 03:18:41 PMJessica. I'm gonna go post something in that thread now, that you may or may not disagree with and may or may not read, but it doesn't mean I don't like & respect you.

I am not here to censor anyone sweetie. I hope I did not give that impression and you are part of my family so I will love and support you even if we ever disagree. Families do that.  :)

Quote from: Felix on September 24, 2014, 04:34:00 PM
Props for apologizing, but you don't seem to have transgressed as deeply as you think you did.

In my mind any transgression I make against someone is a biggy for me. I really am not a judgmental *ss. I try to do the best I can all the time I am just very passionate. Sorry, girl emotion stuff.  :)

Hey-we all say things that are a little insensitive (and nothing you said was offensive at all!).  I think it's just always important to keep an open mind, and for all of us, every single person on this forum to know when to speak, when to affirm, when to argue, and when to accept that we do not understand the experiences of another person fully.  Just keep an open mind to other ideas, and a level head-no apology is needed in my book.

Thanks for just trying to maneuver these waters. I'm not very binary, and was surprised at your posts, but the fact that you're trying goes a huge long way with me. It's too easy to get offended and get defensive. We're all just imperfect humans, after all.

Jessica, I still want you to either marry me or adopt me  ;D

Quote from: Shantel on September 24, 2014, 02:23:42 PM
Hey Jessica, you have to quit apologizing for having an opinion of your own and getting worked up every time some individual gets their panties in a wad. I'm with Jaime and the others on this one, these whiner types always taking exception need to get a life. You stand out as one of the most caring persons here my friend! (((BIG Hugs))) girlfriend! No more apologizing, it's entirely uncalled for!

I have to say this replying is making me slightly uncomfortable. I'm all for supporting Jessica as she is one of my favorite people here but I don't think name calling helps. Sorry Shan, I should probably let it go, but I just think it can take a tone that doesn't help Susan's. Like if someone new read this are they going to be afraid of getting labeled as a "whiner type"?

it's always best to choose one's words carefully, read through one's post three times before posting it, make sure it is on topic or at least relevant to the discussion, not aggressive in any way, that you've gotten the point the op is trying to make and are only answering to that, and all kinds of other things.

i don't think any of us do that all the time.
and it's understandable that being triggered when already struggling with other stuff and having a rough week, can make you less cautious than you ideally should be.

it took a longer time than necessary to learn the reason why you reacted so much to the topic of binary privilege, but i understand it is not because of you trying to be difficult. it's often harder to make one's point when triggered, and i know i have made much more offensive posts when i've been triggered on other places. gets personal when the misunderstanding is with a friend...
yeah, your posts weren't even offensive, just seemed not to contribute to the topic until you managed to explain where you came from.

your apology is accepted, you are forgiven.
i love you just as much as anyone else here, and wish you happiness both now and in the future.
as well as many good, educational, and uplifting conversations here.

Understanding what I do now, I'm sorry that I triggered you, I don't go out of my way to do that to people.

I also commend you on getting involved in a discussion you found to be extremely uncomfortable, once we'd got past initial defensiveness it's actually gone somewhere useful.

Finally, we all ---k up, it's part of being human. You're doing the right thing, reflecting on what happened and moving forward with new understanding. That's good and healthy  :)

Jessica, it is understandable, I used to suffer from PTSD, still occasionally get bouts of it from time to time but having barriers in place, knowing your limits can help immensely to combat the triggers or at the very least, allow enough warning to escape the situation to recover gently in the comfort of one's own room. But sometimes, such warnings can arrive too late and as a result, triggers can appear everywhere and without warning.

If may I ask: What will happen the next time and the time after that? I hope I am not the only one who is seeing that this isn't a healthy cycle. The displays of sympathy in the thread are understandable as you have been triggered but some of the responses appear to be coddling you and shifting the blame onto others in the community - this is alarming. Pointing the finger isn't appropriate, nor should it be encouraged on a support site such as Susan's.

What will happen when apologies and begging for forgiveness lose all meaning because it has been said too many times before..?

I do not know you personally but from what I have learned, I am deeply concerned for you, Jessica. I worry about the patterns arising, I wish I could help you, shoulder all your pain and burdens myself so you won't have to suffer, but as much as I want to, I cannot.

Do you have a support network outside of Susan's? Do you have a list of things you can do to help ground yourself when you are being triggered or feeling close to it? Do you have anyone you can trust to call if grounding yourself doesn't work? Can you trust yourself to 'x' out of the topic the next time you feel you are being triggered or at the very least, bring it to the community's attention sooner than later so they can react accordingly?

Are you seeing a therapist and have they been notified of this incident? It is vitally important to reach out - yes, I'm aware Susan's is a support website but it shouldn't be the only form of support, that can be very lonely. Brushing the problem under the rug instead of directly dealing with it isn't going to fix anything to stop the potential this cycle has from repeating itself over again.

What can we do to ensure that the pattern doesn't repeat itself again? What measures can we put into place to make sure that you and us, the community are able to be more prepared next time? Please, tell us - give any suggestions possible. I want to help and I'm sure many others do so as well.

I am relieved that you have understood what your actions have done and I hope this will be a step in the right direction - I look forward to having many more discussions with you and others. I hope one day you will join us in the forest again, to laugh and smile once again. I accept your apology and I apologize in advance if I have offended or upset you with this response. You are loved by many of us here, myself included and I hate the thought of losing you or anyone else here.

Please be well,

Jacey  :icon_bunch:

We should all be able to speak on how we feel. How can we all learn from each other if we do not state our acccurate feelings. We are all here to help each other are we not? Let's all be nice to each other & help each other with our lives.

Quote from: EchelonHunt on September 25, 2014, 07:09:17 AM
If may I ask: What will happen the next time and the time after that? I hope I am not the only one who is seeing that this isn't a healthy cycle. The displays of sympathy in the thread are understandable as you have been triggered but some of the responses appear to be coddling you and shifting the blame onto others in the community - this is alarming. Pointing the finger isn't appropriate, nor should it be encouraged on a support site such as Susan's.

What will happen when apologies and begging for forgiveness lose all meaning because it has been said too many times before..?

Looks like I can't even do the right thing when I apologize as well. I never asked to be coddled only for people to understand I am far from perfect. I see now this is not enough. Maybe Ativan was right.  :'(

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on September 25, 2014, 07:35:01 AM
Looks like I can't even do the right thing when I apologize as well. I never asked to be coddled only for people to understand I am far from perfect. I see now this is not enough. Maybe Ativan was right.  :'(

What I mean from not a healthy cycle is not that you came forward and apologized - that is a good thing! What I mean is that this is the second time you have become upset in the forum and posted an apology, last time, you were even going to leave Susan's altogether and gave the impression you had given up, that's how bad it got. Now it is happening again for a second time and I worry - what if it will happen again and what if it's worse next time when it could be prevented from happening...? That is what I mean.

Jessica, I never said you asked to be coddled. I simply said I was alarmed by those who appear to be coddling you in this thread. I know you are far from perfect and I have accepted your apology - I have specified if there are any suggestions as how we can help you more. Sympathy and support are one thing but we need to have more than that - a plan. A carefully thought out plan to ensure that you can be safe and that if you are not, that there are support networks you can contact outside of the forum.

I do not know what Ativan has said but they have been letting their emotions and anger get to them lately. Whatever they have said, I'm positively sure, they spoke in the heat of the moment. It doesn't make them right, I assure you. Do not let Ativan's words get to you.

If I was not worried beforehand, I am even more worried now.     

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on September 25, 2014, 07:35:01 AM
Looks like I can't even do the right thing when I apologize as well. I never asked to be coddled only for people to understand I am far from perfect. I see now this is not enough. Maybe Ativan was right.  :'(

Oh I'm going to have to spank you.!!!  :P

No second guessing yourself.!
No apologizing.!
No feeling bad.!

You rock.!
You're awesome.!

Bottom line.!
<3

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on September 25, 2014, 07:35:01 AM
Looks like I can't even do the right thing when I apologize as well. I never asked to be coddled only for people to understand I am far from perfect. I see now this is not enough. Maybe Ativan was right.  :'(

Aww, Jess hunni, that's not what Echelon is saying.  They're saying they're worried about you and want to help make sure you're safe.  A sentiment I'd like to echo myself, especially now that I know this isn't the first time something like this has happened :(

Please let us know if there's anything we can do to help you out here.  You don't have to face this alone. <3 *hugs* <3