For me it is about not getting clocked at all. Like, basically ever.
Do I go days where I blend in and no one seems to notice? Sure. Do I often get gendered correctly? Yes. Do I barely get a second look often enough? Indeed.
I'm still clocked often enough though. So the way that I see it, I don't pass.
Thoughts?
That's a very good question that is bothering me right now!
How can I know if I am passing or not?
I am full time for just twelve days and I was not misgendered yet. I was at several places and no one seems to stare at me or say anything...but are they reading me as a woman or a transwoman?
It's hard to tell. There is one thing that can be done to test passability, but it can have a disastrous outcome: Going to the woman's WC! If you are not really passing people will ask you to leave and call security =P
But again...how can we know if we are stealth or not? How can we know if we are being secretly clocked?
Quote from: Natalia on October 03, 2014, 07:41:29 AM
That's a very good question that is bothering me right now!
How can I know if I am passing or not?
I am full time for just twelve days and I was not misgendered yet. I was at several places and no one seems to stare at me or say anything...but are they reading me as a woman or a transwoman?
It's hard to tell. There is one thing that can be done to test passability, but it can have a disastrous outcome: Going to the woman's WC! If you are not really passing people will ask you to leave and call security =P
But again...how can we know if we are stealth or not? How can we know if we are being secretly clocked?
you definitely need to stop beating your self up there is no male in your avatar , also given the fact that the far greater span of your life has presented male its going to take time not to question it
I know I'll never be stealth. Too many people around here knew me pre-transition. And I'm 5'11" tall, so there are bound to be people who look at me and wonder, especially in LGBT spaces.
For me, passability means that rarely does a stranger clock me unless they have a reason to look at me carefully.
For me, it's basically blending in so that a given person doesn't pick me out as trans. However, it can vary by situation and group, so in your case, for example, I'd still say you pass - most of the time, in most places.
Yes, for me being passable is never being read--a fairly high standard. But it's virtually impossible to know how well you're doing. If people are reading you, they might say nothing to you. So you're left studying their reactions to see if you can read them. You're always guessing. Many times I've wished that I could read people's minds, but I can't.
It's a state of mind where I am 100% confident in myself.
I do not care about it ;D
barbie~~
I think I pass 100% of the time with people I don't know, but the town I live in isn't that huge, and it's where I transitioned three years ago. I know that quite a few people watched my transition, some intensely at first, others, almost all men, with a muted disdain, and now, I think that even most of those who did know, kind of see me as a woman who once dressed in male clothes. When it comes right down to it, I THINK I always pass, but part of it could be because I show confidence instead of misgivings or fear. If I showed either of those, people might look closer and it would probably be easier to see my faults, some of which I consider male traits, but nobody seems to notice. Having said that, I think I pass all the time. Does that make sense?
For me, passing is when you are, for the most part, getting gendered correctly; where the majority of your interactions people treat you as your preferred gender.
What is it to me? Absolutely nothing of importance.
Quote from: Natalie on October 03, 2014, 02:54:53 PM
What is it to me? Absolutely nothing of importance.
This... Sorry if this seems tough. But what does it matter? You can't read minds, so if people don't say or do anything, what is there to worry about?
I don't know if things are more civilized out here (probably), but here there are a lot of reports of trans women being kicked off women public restrooms here because people read them as "men dressing up as women". They call security and it is a huge and shameful thing to happen to you if your documents are still to be changed (and here it takes over one year to have them changed!)
Usually people don't want to be read as trans so they can blend better and be treated as real women...we aren't treated as real women by most people and everyone knows that. That besides the risks of being beaten and killed at the streets!
But perhaps it is something more important for starters like me too, because I see that I require a lot of confirmation in order to have enough self-steem to go out as myself.
But coming back to the topic subject...passability is one thing almost impossible to tell. Even when people are gendering you correctly and treating you correctly, there is the possibility that they are aware of you being trans. They just won't tell you!
I am not sure what exactly you mean in response to my statement. It's an axiom that humans cannot read minds and people "do" tend to say things to people that others do not like. It's happens all the time. My statement is quite clear, someone elses subjective opinion about whether or not I "pass" in society is a joke and essentially meaningless because of the fact that I don't "care" about their opinions of me thus, the concept of "passing" means absolutely nothing to me. The poster posed a question and I answered that question, nothing more.
For me passability is the ability to walk past 95-99% of the population without them even wondering about your gender, there is no such thing as 100% passability even for cis people and granted girls that start hormones in their teens might get well beyond the 99% mark.
Quote from: Natalia on October 03, 2014, 03:36:30 PM
But coming back to the topic subject...passability is one thing almost impossible to tell. Even when people are gendering you correctly and treating you correctly, there is the possibility that they are aware of you being trans. They just won't tell you!
If they are gendering and treating you correctly what does it matter if they know if you are trans? I'm treated as a woman by many cis people who know I am trans and that is because they are decent people for whom it makes no difference that I am trans. A shame that might not be said about many others but so what, seriously, screw them!
To me it's looking in the mirror and liking what I see.
Quote from: Ms Grace on October 03, 2014, 05:21:52 PM
If they are gendering and treating you correctly what does it matter if they know if you are trans? I'm treated as a woman by many cis people who know I am trans and that is because they are decent people for whom it makes no difference that I am trans. A shame that might not be said about many others but so what, seriously, screw them!
You know what? You are right! I need to turn on that little button that says "screw it" and move on.
Being able to see myself in a reflective surface and no longer feeling sick to my stomach. That is the yard stick for me, after all I am doing this for me not for anyone else!
Well to me it's being confident in myself (I'm give myself the worst critics so if I pass to myself then I guess I would pass to everyones eyes XD), and pretty much is reach my goals in transition and be done, or half way happy at least. I don't think you need 100 surgeries to pass, I mean you can still pass and be ugly. The two things are not the same. As others said, if i'll be able to not be noticed from strangers then I'll pass, but it's more important that I'm happy with myself, etc...
Ditto. I always strive just to blend in with the confidence of being able to my true self. Generally people smile or appear to notice at all and I go about my merry way.
Hi,
Im not fooling any one and never will and my name says it all,
noel to noeleena. both names are female , no-el, and every one know,s, nice and simple, and those who dont know dont care, i am who i am and not trying to be other than who i am and have allways been , Just because im different does not really come into it , and why should it ,
Those who have known me for the last 57 years are very accepting and those who knew me during that time till now still dont have any issues and do know me very well, and some were not surprised when they knew i was different and female just not your normal female did not change how they saw me or got on with me .
Whats a change of clothes or i maybe look a little different they see my face and know straight away who i am .
Put me in a crowd of people and those who know me will pick me out, and i mean a lot of people some few 1000 or so,
Too well known , and accepted , and for my self its about being accepted for who you are the way you look, and after that what matters what concerns are there left, none .
and though coming from myself dare i even think or say so and im hard on myself in how i look , im more feminine and female than some i know, and i dont like admitting to that, because i dont look in my eye,s, that feminine for a female ,
after youv been told you do, so you see being female does not allways give you your female look . so accepting that is or would be my issue. others see myself differently than i do,
i did not use...... pass..... i dont need to,......
...noeleena...
This is an interesting question to me because I recently met a MtF waiting in the lobby of my therapist. We struck up a conversation, and she was rather open about her situation. She has had facial surgery and breast implants, and was rather striking. Yet she was tall, had a rather androgynous voice, and there was something about her manner that hinted to her background. I would say that she more than passed if just a still photo was taken, but probably not for any length of time in real person. Yet she could be rated as even sexy on some level. To me, that is passing. It isn't about nobody ever guessing your background; it is rather about moving about in your new gender role, and doing it well enough to feel validated.
Quote from: Natalie on October 03, 2014, 02:54:53 PM
What is it to me? Absolutely nothing of importance.
Most likely, it's "nothing" to you, because you pass just fine and people don't clock you as a transgender. I'm sure that for trans women who have been beaten and harassed, it has a different value. Passing or not passing can really make the difference between life and death. So you shouldn't treat it lightly. It's a very important concern for most trans women.
Quote from: Auroramarianna on October 04, 2014, 11:17:56 AM
Most likely, it's "nothing" to you, because you pass just fine and people don't clock you as a transgender. I'm sure that for trans women who have been beaten and harassed, it has a different value. Passing or not passing can really make the difference between life and death. So you shouldn't treat it lightly. It's a very important concern for most trans women.
That's what I was trying to say =) At least here in Brazil it makes a lot of difference...I see news about trans peopele being killed just because someone clocked them at the streets! I know many trans women who were kicked from bathrooms, parties, restaurants, just because they weren't passable! Sure...it doesn't matter when you pass or when you live in a cave and don't need to interact with people...
Quote from: Auroramarianna on October 04, 2014, 11:17:56 AM
Most likely, it's "nothing" to you, because you pass just fine and people don't clock you as a transgender. I'm sure that for trans women who have been beaten and harassed, it has a different value. Passing or not passing can really make the difference between life and death. So you shouldn't treat it lightly. It's a very important concern for most trans women.
I'd agree with this and with Natalia's post as well. Yes, we should all be secure enough within ourselves not to care what other people think of us, but that means very little if you're taking a beating because somebody's read you.
I myself live a small town where lots of people know me, and for that reason I've had a bit of unpleasantness here. But I am quite passable, which means that it's very relaxing for me to get on the train and go somewhere for a day out because I know that my chances of being read are small. I can relax and be myself without too many worries, and that is a blessing.
Those who pass do have a big advantage. I recognize it. I think I'd be doing a huge disservice to people, male or female, who don't pass well. It would be trivializing what they have to put up with.
Quote from: Emily29 on October 03, 2014, 11:34:17 PM
Well to me it's being confident in myself
Yes. Confidence is the most important. People say I am very confident, and a few say actually I am blatant.
When drunken, I behave like a macho.... while wearing heels and miniskirt.
barbie~~
Quote from: kaye on October 03, 2014, 07:01:50 AM
For me it is about not getting clocked at all. Like, basically ever.
Do I go days where I blend in and no one seems to notice? Sure. Do I often get gendered correctly? Yes. Do I barely get a second look often enough? Indeed.
I'm still clocked often enough though. So the way that I see it, I don't pass.
Thoughts?
I am fine until I open my mouth..... super sad face.... cannot wait for voice surgery..... Korea or bust !
Quote from: Natalia on October 04, 2014, 11:38:52 AM
That's what I was trying to say =) At least here in Brazil it makes a lot of difference...I see news about trans peopele being killed just because someone clocked them at the streets! I know many trans women who were kicked from bathrooms, parties, restaurants, just because they weren't passable! Sure...it doesn't matter when you pass or when you live in a cave and don't need to interact with people...
Yes. Culture can matter for transgender people. Here in my country, S. Korea, it is very safe whatever I wear. Regarding appearance, everything you can imagine happens everyday, but nobody has been harmed or attacked. For example, a young lady of mental illness once walked along a downtown street completely naked. Nearby people was just busy taking smartphone photos, and other people and media just criticized those people who did not try to protect and guide her to police or hospital. When I walk in a traditional old market here, I am sure nearly everybody watches me, as I am the tallest person there (184 cm, 6 feet, plus 4 inch heels). Whether I pass or not, people are very friendly and treat me like a celebrity.
Yes. I once felt unsafe when I ran for exercise in a downtown of a Russian city. A group of a few street people greeted me in Russian, and I just ran away faster. Also once in a suburban area of the U.S., I was once virtually raped by a man in my car. He just ran away after he clearly realized that I am not a biological female. In a week, I heard from local radio broadcast that a girl was raped there, and I was sure he was the attacker. I should have reported my incidence to the police, but I did not... You know why.
barbie~~
Quote from: Natalie on October 04, 2014, 02:05:11 PM
How exactly am I taking it lightly? Because it is not important to me anymore? Of course the only "reason" must be your subjective opinion of how "feminine" I look to you right? Claiming that I have no problems passing is the same thing as saying I look just like every other natal woman in society because natal women don't get "clocked, harassed or beaten." See, that is making an assumption based on relevant information to formulate a theory. If I cared more, which now I don't, I would then ask you questions to validate or refute my hypothesis in this matter. Your assumptions, however, are baseless.
Pffft, whatever, but hey, you keep making those invalid false cause assumptions though.
Um, I never said natal women don't get harassed or beaten. But transgender women do get harassed and beaten for being transgender, and I don't need to tell you this. As a transgender woman, we're much more likely to get beaten or harassed. I just don't see how you claim passing is of no importance to you, and that you don't care about other people's opinions of you and then go say you put yourself in the most uncomfortable situation when you first started. Why was it uncomfortable? Maybe because of other people's reaction, how aggressive, rejecting or just plain rude they could become upon clocking you. So it had to matter to you at some point, at least enough for you to fear for your own personal safety when out. It's the passing that allows you not to care about passing.
By the way, I am sorry for the assumptions I made.
Quote from: Natalia on October 04, 2014, 11:38:52 AM
That's what I was trying to say =) At least here in Brazil it makes a lot of difference...I see news about trans peopele being killed just because someone clocked them at the streets! I know many trans women who were kicked from bathrooms, parties, restaurants, just because they weren't passable! Sure...it doesn't matter when you pass or when you live in a cave and don't need to interact with people...
Did you understand what Natalia was trying to say? I saw your statistics about American transgendered women, but still, do you really get it that passing can be literally a matter of life and death?
Quote from: Natalie on October 04, 2014, 02:05:11 PM
Yeah, you did and now you are making even more erroneous assumptions...check it out, allow me to reiterate since it escapes your memory:
How exactly am I taking it lightly? Because it is not important to me anymore? Of course the only "reason" must be your subjective opinion of how "feminine" I look to you right? Claiming that I have no problems passing is the same thing as saying I look just like every other natal woman in society because natal women don't get "clocked, harassed or beaten." See, that is making an assumption based on relevant information to formulate a theory. If I cared more, which now I don't, I would then ask you questions to validate or refute my hypothesis in this matter. Your assumptions, however, are baseless.
I'd assume you don't get clocked, because you look like a girl to me. That said, you look like a girl, but I wouldn't think you're a, how did you say it, "a hot, sexy Momma." If I saw you on the street, I wouldn't look twice, because you look female, but not some drop-dead gorgeous creature that friends I know would turn their heads for, let alone turn their cars around for. And you're behaving like a mean spirited, chip on your shoulder brat, not a woman. I know other transwomen with the same attitude as you about not caring what others think, who don't pass, but they understand other girls who are tormented, physically, mentally or both, either because they don't pass either, or have that fear that sits on their shoulder constantly asking themselves, "Do I pass?". I know there is passing privilege, because I have it, in that I can and do go wherever I want, when I want, but if I didn't pass I'm not sure what I would do. I'm pretty thin skinned, and I admire your bravery in the beginning of your transition. However, as you well know, there are many, many areas in our country where you couldn't do what you did in the beginning, if for no other reason than the 'pack' or 'mob' mentality. All it takes is one guy, almost invariably the leader, to stir up the innate hatreds of others. There was even a case a few years ago in North Hollywood Ca., where a guy's girlfriend got jealous of the way her boyfriend was looking at a transgender girl, she not only made a scene till he felt he had to act, she was the first aggressor, smashing the girl in the face when she exited the bathroom in the fast food place they were in. And astonishingly, the manager of the store (who, thank God, lost her job) verbally joined in, egging them on to 'f**k that ->-bleeped-<- up.'
Quote from: Auroramarianna on October 04, 2014, 03:15:07 PM
Um, I never said natal women don't get harassed or beaten. But transgender women do get harassed and beaten for being transgender, and I don't need to tell you this. As a transgender woman, we're much more likely to get beaten or harassed. I just don't see how you claim passing is of no importance to you, and that you don't care about other people's opinions of you and then go say you put yourself in the most uncomfortable situation when you first started. Why was it uncomfortable? Maybe because of other people's reaction, how aggressive, rejecting or just plain rude they could become upon clocking you. So it had to matter to you at some point, at least enough for you to fear for your own personal safety when out. It's the passing that allows you not to care about passing.
By the way, I am sorry for the assumptions I made.
Last, Natalie, why would I want to read your book with your attitude and probably a vocabulary I feel I should have a dictionary close to me? Meretricious? Couldn't you have used garish, phony, insincere, or bogus instead? (I had to look meretricious up) I get it, you're an intelligent young lady. Your intellect will go a lot further when you also treat people with respect and understanding. Now, as Forrest, Forrest Gump says, "That's all I have to say about that." Mira
:police:
Ok I notice things are getting a bit heated here. I request people calm down and respect other people's point of view even if you can't see it yourself. No argument has ever been won on the internet. Many thanks.
This is why we can't have nice things.
Locked.
Abusive commentary removed, Topic reopened
Passability to me is being correctly gendered by strangers. At least that's what I'm hoping for at minimum.
People I know, close friends/family etc will just have to deal. Those who choose to try to screw with my life will quickly find themselves kicked out of it. I make no bones about that at all. I have life experience and I can be a very forgiving person but you cross me once too much I can be a total b**ch. I made myself who I am.
Violence? I'm not afraid. I am aware. Learn to defend yourself, don't be a victim. Doesn't have to be with a weapon if you don't like weapons. Look around you and be situationally aware. Anti trans violence is very real. Actually violence itself is very real. We have the knock out game here and other assorted things. I try to stay away from crime ridden inner cities like Newark and Paterson at night too. Not a knock on the people who live there but they do have an established crime problem. There are lots of things I've learned in various training but it all boils down to this - you need to know what is around you and how imminent it is because the biggest weapon they have against you is the element of surprise.
I like viewing passability as having levels. Think of it like a building. The top floor is perfect passability, where you not only are gendered correctly by strangers who look at you but by people who speak with and interact with you on more personal or intimate levels, by people who look at your ID, etc, and regardless of how you look you come across with such confidence that even someone who wonders for a moment about your appearance still decides that you must be female. We enter the building on different floors, since some of us are already androgynous or feminine-looking as males, and some of us are not. The floor I imagine I'm at now is where strangers are unlikely to mis-gender me at a glance, but if they look at me for a long period of time or if I speak with them, they are far more likely to gender me male.
Quote from: Ms Grace on October 04, 2014, 05:40:21 PM
:police:
Ok I notice things are getting a bit heated here. I request people calm down and respect other people's point of view even if you can't see it yourself. No argument has ever been won on the internet. Many thanks.
This means that 'passability' is always an extremely sensitive issue among us??
barbie~~
For me personally I am aiming to be able to 'pass'. However I know that whilst I can make every effort to do so, there is still a chance I won't. In which case regardless of how I look, I really just want to 'blend in'. This is mostly about personal security for me and my children. I mean I would never put my children in an unsafe situation, nor would I put myself either. But the truth is I may just be doing that. And so I am making every effort to look like my correct gender, sound like my correct gender, and act like my correct gender. I sure feel like my correct gender so I just need to work on the other things. Again this is about looking after myself and my family. I'm not really precious about what people think about me, but. I am precious about whether they are going to give me or my family any trouble. And so I will try to avoid trouble by 'passing' or 'blending in'.
Quote from: barbie on October 04, 2014, 10:09:28 PM
This means that 'passability' is always an extremely sensitive issue among us??
barbie~~
Apparently so for some...
Quote from: BreezyB on October 04, 2014, 10:20:02 PM
I really just want to 'blend in'.
That's what it boils down to for me.
When I stopped seeing "him" when I looked in the mirror. I only need to "pass" to myself.
Passing for me is : having everyone you interact with see you as the gender you present without any doubts etc
for example a normal cis female will always pass as female no matter what ,even if she decides to wear male clothes or have short hair etc
on the other hand , I, even with make up ,female clothes etc will get wierd looks and will get misgendered occasionally, this proves that even if I pass sometimes im nowhere near cis female levels , thus im not passing as female.
for me passing is 100%, you either get misgendered or you dont, if you get misgendered ,even 1 out of 10, you do not pass cause an average cis female never, and let me repeat that, never gets misgendered.
If you get wierd looks (even if they arent frequent) people probably question your gender.
Blending in doesnt equal passing, people are too busy to judge us anyways...
Face the truth people...only a tiny percent of the mtf community passes 100% and congratz to them , the rest of us should accept the misery of getting misgendered etc and try our best to pass more.
Now if you dont care about passing etc, congratz to you too, you re probably living a happy life, one that me and others who desire to pass 100% cant have...so well done,really, im jealous.
Quote from: FalseHybridPrincess on October 05, 2014, 08:16:46 AM
Passing for me is : having everyone you interact with see you as the gender you present without any doubts etc
for example a normal cis female will always pass as female no matter what ,even if she decides to wear male clothes or have short hair etc
for me passing is 100%, you either get misgendered or you dont, if you get misgendered ,even 1 out of 10, you do not pass cause an average cis female never, and let me repeat that, never gets misgendered.
This is most definitely
not true. More like everyone gets misgenderd at some point in their lives, some more than others.
Quote from: LordKAT on October 05, 2014, 08:52:25 AM
This is most definitely not true. More like everyone gets misgenderd at some point in their lives, some more than others.
Well, if you are androgynous or gender non conforming etc then maybe,,,
but I was talking about the average cis female and the average cis male and they never get misgendered
I was living as a guy for 19 years, no one came even close to gendering me female, even when I had long hair...
same goes for cis girls,,,,
people see the truth ,the differences are too obvious...
Its simple , if you are cis you will have an easy time with your gender cause everyone will see you as what you are...if you are trans its goind to be difficult cause you will need to change soooo many things until you have changed enough...sometimes its even impossible, you know what I mean?
Some people are literally unable to pass no matter what and they need to find other coping mechanisms...
Come on...you cant tell me that everyone gets misgendered....you just cant...You make me feel bad ok?
I study in a university full of female students, only a madman would gender one of them male...
Cis people are made by nature and society to look either male or female (note im referring to cis people
only )
if they chose to present according to their birth gender then it is extremely obvious that they pass 100% as this gender...thats all im saying
In the past year, my wife has been misgendered once in person and twice on the phone. I have been once, and the woman was embarrassed when I turned around. I know another tall cis woman who's muscular and sturdily built (and also has waist-length hair and 38DD breasts) who gets sirred quite often. Heck, I got mistaken for a girl a couple times a year long before transition, too, though everybody corrected themselves if they got a closer look.
Yeah, it happens to cis people too. :) Not that often usually, but a couple to a few times a year from distracted strangers = about the average for anybody, even cis people.
The difference seemed to be that anybody who then said "Uh, I'm not a guy/girl" got an apology and the mistaken person also corrected themselves; so the lesson I take from that is, if someone misgenders you, act like it WAS a mistake. Cis people don't usually get all upset about it, so the real trick is to act casually annoyed.
For me passibility is centered entirely within rather than without, meaning the way I present myself, how I dress, degree of makeup is a slow progression of change due to hrt. This allows me to always feel comfortable within myself so that I do not have to 'react' to others approval or disapproval (in the very beginning I dressed to female for my appearence/not in my own region) I suppose this could almost be defined as a form of stealth because I believe for most people they are too self absorbed with their lives to notice very small changes. Will there come a time when I am more concerned? My guess is yes because I have not had that first experience of truely passing, when the other person without any hesitation treats you as female. I think for me it will be when I choose to wear lipstick as this removes all doubt. This must be a big moment, but as some have stated in this thread, I really not concerned. Dani
Am I blending in well?
BTW, everybody knows who I am, and my name tag alone clearly shows my birth sex.
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5598/15264919228_2b43e0810c_b.jpg) (https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2945/15448369211_02b737c5b5_o.jpg)
A few people commented that the skirt is too short, but most people commented positively.
And I had to use women's bathroom.
barbie~~
Quote from: LordKAT on October 05, 2014, 08:52:25 AM
This is most definitely not true. More like everyone gets misgenderd at some point in their lives, some more than others.
I have heard my cis wife get sir'd to her face more than once, and it happens over the phone to her almost as often as it does to me.
I admit that I would not consider myself to be 'passing' as female unless I felt comfortable that I was being seen as female by 100% of people, 100% of the time. Given that 'perfectionism is a sure cure for happiness', even thinking about aiming for this level of perfection is a good guarantee that I would get plenty of misery, self-doubt, self-loathing, and other emotional pain.
Quote from: lightvi on October 03, 2014, 06:46:58 PMTo me it's looking in the mirror and liking what I see.
This is something realistic that I can aim for ! In fact, this describes how I now feel on most days. Once I feel good about being me, then why care what others might think or say about how I look ?
Quote from: Newgirl Dani on October 05, 2014, 10:16:56 AM
For me passibility is centered entirely within rather than without, meaning the way I present myself, how I dress, degree of makeup is a slow progression of change due to hrt. This allows me to always feel comfortable within myself so that I do not have to 'react' to others approval or disapproval (in the very beginning I dressed too female for my appearence/not in my own region) I suppose this could almost be defined as a form of stealth because I believe for most people they are too self absorbed with their lives to notice very small changes. Will there come a time when I am more concerned? My guess is yes because I have not had that first experience of truly passing, when the other person without any hesitation treats you as female. I think for me it will be when I choose to wear lipstick as this removes all doubt. This must be a big moment, but as some have stated in this thread, I really not concerned. Dani
This describes how I have been approaching my transition. I also tried to present in a manner more female than I felt very early on. That was very uncomfortable for me, and quickly stopped. I have been gradually altering my wardrobe & appearance since early last year. Most people do not notice any changes. Some who only see me every few months do, many don't. As Dani says, most people are way too preoccupied by their own lives to pay that much attention to me.
I seem to have managed to become passable as a person who is comfortable with who they are, which is something that was beyond me for a very long time. I do not yet seem to be quite as comfortable with who I am as Barbie is, but I am much better than I was. :)
Thank you for posting your pics Barbie. As always, I take heart from your inspiration.
Be well,
Tessa
so when did the chimpanzee start to pass as a human. society needs to evolve so this pass /fail concept can finally be put to rest .all I want is freedom without discrimination.
I agree with "there's a spectrum" and it applies to both cis and trans.
Passing is also not just about appearance. It's about mannerisms, voice and other cues.
First I should say I'm very confident in my core identity and my femininity. I'm seen as just another girl or woman when I go out. I haven't been misgendered in 6 years with the exception of over the phone until I found my voice. Truth is, I leave my home with or without makeup without "passing" on my mind. I worry more about if it's going to rain today, or do I have enough money to get what I need, or how well my vehicle is running, have I got all my bills paid, are the cats fed, if I'm headed for a job do I have enough tools with me, do I need anything not on my list, etc., etc., etc., etc -just living life day to day as any other woman does doing her daily tasks.
Believe me if I wasn't "passing" where I live here in rural northwest central Florida I'd know it, and it could even be dangerous for me. I do consider myself lucky in that I don't really do anything special, or work hard to be seen by others as the girl woman I am and who I've always been. Yes, for my first 6 months of going full time I worried about passing, but that soon faded as time went by with no problems.
So what is "passing" to me? First of all I very much dislike the term used in this context. But for the sake of argument, passing for me is being seen as the girl/woman I've always been. Being seen as just another girl/woman getting through her day, and being seen as just another girl/woman with the same wants and desires as any other. Passing to me is just being me; no one special, just another girl doing her thing. IMHO that is.
Ally :icon_flower:
To me passing is when you feel comfortable and natural with your gender and everyone else sees you the same way. (Wether they know your trans or not.) This is why I prefer the term blending than passing. Being gendered correctly or incorrectly isn't the final all or be all that determining this. I've reached the point now where it's not about wether I'm passing today or not, it's more of does this top go with this pant. Or if my hair isn't cooperating with me today. Basically just girl problems and human issues.
I've been with with cis-women that were gender incorrectly in their face and then the same person turns around to me and gender me correctly. To be fair my friend that this happened to is soft butch to tom boyish lesbian, with short hair, but looks very feminine.(Here is a picture of her (https://www.flickr.com/photos/agiriley/9596861602/), with permission.) Her voice is definitely a lot more feminine than mine too. She didn't even notice it happened to her and it's happened a few times before. She doesn't care as it happens to everyone at some point.
Means I don't think about it any more.. Honestly, I'm way too busy living and enjoying life to wonder what people are thinking - besides, it's not something I have any control over..
Quote from: barbie on October 05, 2014, 03:50:17 PM
Am I blending in well?
BTW, everybody knows who I am, and my name tag alone clearly shows my birth sex.
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5598/15264919228_2b43e0810c_b.jpg) (https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2945/15448369211_02b737c5b5_o.jpg)
A few people commented that the skirt is too short, but most people commented positively.
And I had to use women's bathroom.
barbie~~
I think your blending in Barbie, you look great I might add also. I would agree I think the skirt is a little too short but otherwise your dressed appropriately for the occasion.
And I think that's the key to blending in.