Not sure if anyone has posted this but I figured it might be of some interest to the group :)
http://www.theguardian.com/education/2014/oct/04/penis-transplants-anthony-atala-interview?guni=Keyword:news-grid%20main-2%20(New%20Review)%20Pickable%20with%20editable%20override:Pickable%20with%20editable%20override:Position2
Hell yeah, a lot of interest. As someone who has worked with transplantation groups and in drug development, this sentence really resonated with me:
Quote"It's a rigorous testing schedule," says Atala, wearily.
:D Yep, sounds right.
In all likelihood, I know it'll probably be 10-15 years before this kind of technology becomes available to even the richest and best-connected dudes. Safety and efficacy testing is a long, LONG road (by necessity! As eager as I am, I wouldn't change it. I'm far too familiar with what can happen when corners are cut...), but damn if it isn't exciting to know that someone's doing the research right now.
It's quite exciting, but I think that it will be a VERY long time before it's a viable option for trans* men. The reason is that, while they may be able to some day create a disembodied perfect penis in a lab, the real issue lies in attaching it to a trans* man's body - the complicated microsurgical connecting of blood vessels and creating artificial structures (like a suspensory ligament) in the trans* man's body that cismales already have.
But if that hurdle is defeated, then it will be a triumphant day for trans* guys everywhere.
Also, I was confused by the references to using "salvageable" tissue from cisguys to seed the donor penis structure. I wondered if that meant they couldn't do it for transguys?
Instead of trying attatch a penis, why don't they just figure out a way to mak our junk grow more, its basically a penis just smaller, plus its already attached to you from inside the body. I feel like it would be quicker to do this then growing it naturally when you already have something natural.
Quote from: Brandon on October 05, 2014, 08:16:13 PM
Instead of trying attatch a penis, why don't they just figure out a way to mak our junk grow more, its basically a penis just smaller, plus its already attached to you from inside the body. I feel like it would be quicker to do this then growing it naturally when you already have something natural.
^ This would be the best idea.
Quote from: Brandon on October 05, 2014, 08:16:13 PM
Instead of trying attatch a penis, why don't they just figure out a way to mak our junk grow more, its basically a penis just smaller, plus its already attached to you from inside the body. I feel like it would be quicker to do this then growing it naturally when you already have something natural.
Science, get on this idea right now!
Wow, this is awesome. I read about how the animal trials were successful but every time I checked back to see if there was any progress towards human trials I couldn't find anything. Now they're expecting to do human trials in five years.
Quote from: Brandon on October 05, 2014, 08:16:13 PM
Instead of trying attatch a penis, why don't they just figure out a way to mak our junk grow more, its basically a penis just smaller, plus its already attached to you from inside the body. I feel like it would be quicker to do this then growing it naturally when you already have something natural.
The article says that Dr. Atala and his team are going to start with growing parts of the penis while they keep working on creating the full organ so I'm sure the technology can eventually be used to enhance what's already there for FtMs. Plus, since the clitoris is basically just an undeveloped penis they would probably be able to use the tissue from there to create a fully developed penis. The tissue is the same, it's just the form that's different.
Quote from: amd on October 05, 2014, 07:19:49 PM
Also, I was confused by the references to using "salvageable" tissue from cisguys to seed the donor penis structure. I wondered if that meant they couldn't do it for transguys?
According to the news post, this is exactly correct.
This related article states specifically that since the procedure requires donor cells from the recipient's body, this would not work for ftms:
http://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/oct/05/laboratory-penises-test-on-men (http://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/oct/05/laboratory-penises-test-on-men)
That being said, it's still pretty cool that they have figured out this much.
In other news women have had a womb transplanted and gave birth with it.
Quote from: kdbrrw on October 06, 2014, 09:08:39 AM
This related article states specifically that since the procedure requires donor cells from the recipient's body, this would not work for ftms:
http://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/oct/05/laboratory-penises-test-on-men (http://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/oct/05/laboratory-penises-test-on-men)
That being said, it's still pretty cool that they have figured out this much.
I'm not entirely convinced that that is true. Cellular expression is controlled by the testosterone/estrogen balance. Wouldn't bathing a donor cell in the proper hormone direct the cell as desired? Maybe no one has tried.
When they say this won't work for transmen, I believe it's because at this stage they're only going to be creating parts of the penis for those who need smaller areas replaced which is what all the articles say. So of course, this phase wouldn't work for transmen yet. The articles also say that they aren't going to begin the next phase of implanting fully grown penises in humans yet but they hope to in five years. There's still hope for the future.
Quote from: kdbrrw on October 06, 2014, 09:08:39 AM
This related article states specifically that since the procedure requires donor cells from the recipient's body, this would not work for ftms:
http://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/oct/05/laboratory-penises-test-on-men (http://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/oct/05/laboratory-penises-test-on-men)
That being said, it's still pretty cool that they have figured out this much.
You missed a
lot of subtext:
"For the structure, they wash a donor penis in a mild detergent to remove all donor cells. After two weeks a collagen scaffold of the penis is left, on to which they seed the patient's cultured cells – smooth muscle cells first, then endothelial cells, which line the blood vessels. Because the method uses a patient's own penis-specific cells, the technology will not be suitable for female-to-male sex reassignment surgery.
"
Our target is to get the organs into patients with injuries or congenital abnormalities," said Atala, whose work is funded by the US Armed Forces Institute of Regenerative Medicine, which hopes to use the technology to help soldiers who sustain battlefield injuries.
As a paediatric urological surgeon, Atala began his work in 1992 to help children born with genital abnormalities.
Because of a lack of available tissue for reconstructive surgery, baby boys with ambiguous genitalia are often given a sex-change at birth, leading to much psychological anguish in later life. "
Imagine being genetically male but living as a woman," he said. "It's a firmly devastating problem that we hope to help with."
The pure, naked fact is that we actually do have all of the necessary tissues. It might devastate so very many people to know this, but ALL babies have a penis during some point of gestation (typically around 12 weeks). Until of course, the gonads get involved and go one way or the other, to alter that fact. Yes, indeed, all little girls once had danglers (why do you think T can later make that same tissue, a microPENIS? Because it is the SAME tissue!). Until their gonads developed into ovaries, and it got pulled in and changed. And all little boys initially begin as girls, too (their outies were innies). For the same reasons. So quite literally, no, that is most definitely NOT the issue here.
Re-read the excerpt until it really sinks in. It's pretty obvious what the hang-up is.
Oh hell, let me flesh it out a bit. If they can employ this for infants with "ambiguous genitalia" (i.e. intersex) and no less with "lack of available tissue for reconstructive surgery"... there's no reason they can't do it for us too (after all, on T, we at LEAST then have roughly the same amount of available tissues down there as an infant male to work with). Chromosomes have nothing at all to do with what can, or cannot, be done with tissue cells. That's the only difference there is between our cells in that neighborhood, and a "genetic male", as they so eloquently stated it. And even if we didn't, guess what? That's not the only place to find those tissues. The body, in fact, recycles many cellular types elsewhere (i.e. the "smooth muscle"). No reason at all they can't use other tissues to fill in the gaps. But that wouldn't be necessary anyway, because again, we DO already have all of the necessary cellular types there for them to do this with, too. Even right down to the soft, spongy, erectile types (obviously).
To just as bluntly paraphrase... it's that they simply just won't; not that they can't.
They have no interest in this helping
us; but every interest in helping the "genetic males".
P.S. Atala is an first-class, callused arsehole.
However, I will now concede the point of fact that while that flimsy excuse isn't actually their problem... the vascular obstacles would indeed make this a more difficult (though, don't mistake "more difficult" as "impossible" because it wouldn't be) adaptation to us. In other words, we have a severe lack of arteries in that region, which would be necessary for this. Meaning, grafting would be necessary. But even that isn't their issue with us and this. Anyway. That's enough.
Quote from: Marcellow on October 05, 2014, 08:53:31 PM
Science, get on this idea right now!
I am sayin theres gotta be away for it, me personally I am just praying I get a good enough size on T, but still I am pretty sure there is a way.
On this topic of growing what we have, does anyone know just how much growth DHT cream and pumping give those who try?
DHT and pumping "work" in the sense of growing up to an inch after 3 months or so. But .5- 1" doesn't normally give you a regular size phallus. Also though it grows, there it's still held by the ligaments and so on (which is the rationale for a "release" in metadioplasty.
--Jay
Quote from: Polo on October 06, 2014, 06:05:46 PM
On this topic of growing what we have, does anyone know just how much growth DHT cream and pumping give those who try?