just curious if you can consider your self binary transgender if anything less then 100% female or male for FTM'S is seen I would think that any opposite gender showing through would make you other than binary, of course my understanding of binary could be wrong. If this is the case then realistically there must be a small space under the umbrella for trans binary or is binary purely a mental concept that you choose.
Not passing does not mean you are none binary. ;)
Just means not passing as your desired gender 100%.
The way I understand this question, and I'm not sure I got it right, is how would I like people to perceive myself in the case I didn't pass as my preferred gender. It's an interesting question that lets me work on my gender identity as long as I don't let it get me down :D Besides, I prefer not to see gender as black and white anyway.
The thoughts that arose related to wanting to be seen as a genderqueer person rather than falling in the male binary. A feminine male-assigned... "guy". I wouldn't see most men as my peers, rather I'd identify more with cis-girls who identify as queer. This is actually how it is in reality already, even though I relate most with other MtF's. Still, I would like to hang around with more queer people, I think they provide one of the safest spaces I know and where I feel most welcome.
Same as anyone else, depends on how you identify, not on whether you pass or not.
I mean, seriously, anyone who thinks there is or should be any sort of hierarchy within the trans community based on looks has some issues.
I wanted to say something, but then decided rather not to...
Quote from: stephaniec on October 08, 2014, 06:32:20 AM
just curious if you can consider your self binary transgender...
Of course. You can consider yourself binary if you see yourself as binary, regardless of how you present, right?
Or am I missing something?
Binary is about how *you* feel, not how other people judge your looks. I was a binary trans woman before I even started transition, because I knew I was 100% a woman.
Otherwise, there's a lot of strong-jawed cis women and delicate-featured cis men who are also non-binary. ;) I actually do use that as my standard - if a cis person gets to be their gender with a given characteristic or personality trait (like a cis girl who hates dresses), then so do we. It's unfair to demand more of trans people to live or demonstrate their gender than anyone else.
Dont laugh at my question. I see the word 'binary' used alot here. Explain pleeease. Thanks much.
Quote from: herekitten on October 08, 2014, 09:30:02 AM
Dont laugh at my question. I see the word 'binary' used alot here. Explain pleeease. Thanks much.
No need to be embarrassed. Think of gender identification as a spectrum, male on one side, female on the other - a two humped camel. By binary people are referring to identifying as being at the top of one hump or the other. Non-binary is somewhere along the valley between them.
A lot of us, myself included, don't fit at either extreme and identify as something else, gender queer, or non-binary. I am more on the feminine end of the bi-modal curve, but not all the way to girl. So I identify as Female here, but it is more nuanced than that.
I will never be confused with a movie star girl, and while I pass as a woman most of the time, it is more because that is how I think of myself as because of my physical features. Confidence passes, tentativeness doesn't - but the reality is that I am usually okay if someone sees me as male. It is to some degree also true and while I dress femininely, It is usually kind of fem-androgynous.
Binary, non-binary are just descriptors of the infinite human variation we can see if we are paying attention.
Fair Winds and Calm Seas,
Julie
JulieBlair - Thank you for the 'binary' explanation. The two-humps graphic was perfect. The graph makes me binary female. You do realize that for the remainder of this day I will be trying to graph everyone I know (won't be able to help myself).
Wanna practice on me, Kitten? Where am I on the spectrum?
Quote from: herekitten on October 08, 2014, 11:45:10 AM
JulieBlair - Thank you for the 'binary' explanation. The two-humps graphic was perfect. The graph makes me binary female. You do realize that for the remainder of this day I will be trying to graph everyone I know (won't be able to help myself).
As do we all at one time or another. ::)
My feelings on this are no different than the rest. I'm in the exact same place even when I don't pass 100%. It's all about who I am and how I feel and not about how others may perceive me.
Mariah
Whether you're binary or non-binary is all about how you personally see your gender, not how others interpret it. I identify as a binary female. Does that mean I pass or that I strictly adhere to gender stereotypes? No. It just means that I know in my heart that I am a woman. I meet my own definition of femininity, and that's the only one I need to be concerned with. :)
I don't think it has anything to do with passing or not passing, it has to deal with how you identify.
Okay, I go out in what some people might call "guy mode," wearing unisex t-shirts, no makeup, my hair tied back, and I do indeed get gendered male a lot when I'm dressed like that. (It's probably about 50/50 male/female.)
The thing is, though, I'm not doing it to be a guy. I'm doing it because I'm feeling too lazy to girl it up. Girls do this too... it's called going shopping in your pajamas because you're too lazy to get dressed. Or suppose a woman wore male clothes... it would be called being butch, not being male.
And again, that's the thing. I don't WANT to be male when I do those things. Really I'm just going out in loose-fitting clothes with no effort put into it, and the fact that I'm gendered male instead of just being seen as a girl who's being lazy or butching it up has nothing to do with my female identity changing, it's just a biproduct of being a tall large-built trans woman instead of a cis woman. It doesn't make me any less of a girl just because I'm not getting gendered female, because my identity doesn't change.
If someone was going out in male clothing with the intent of being gendered male, then maybe you could say that they're a bit non-binary, (which is fine, because honestly I don't think a true binary really exists. I'm sure a lot of cis girls and guys would dress as the opposite just for the hell of it if they had the same option we do of being read as either gender depending on how they dress,) but if you're just going out in certain clothes with the intent of being read as a butch woman or a femme man, then it doesn't really make you non-binary, just maybe a bit gender-nonconforming.
Quote from: Devlyn Marie on October 08, 2014, 11:47:58 AM
Wanna practice on me, Kitten? Where am I on the spectrum?
haha! Funny girl. My ESP is a little low today Devlyn, but I've been starting by placing everyone at the top of their respective hump (in your case binary female since you are mtf) and based on what I know, the ball starts rolling down into the valley or it stays bouncing on the top of the hump :-)) Oooh I've been having fun today with co-workers. My boss is definitely female non-binary.
Definitely not binary female. Crossdresser, bigender, two-spirit, somewhere in there. I don't think I'm a woman.
We have been using the term binary to denote those individuals whose innate identity is either fully male or female...
In that case I am fully female, and always have been.... that is, as many have so eloquently put it, despite the societal perceived or ascribed gender role...
I'm read as male close to 99% of the time. I prefer to be read as male. However, I feel I am not entirely binary-- see myself as non-binary. If I felt comfortable with the term two spirit, I'd use it, but I feel a little like I"m appropriating a term. I strongly identify as transgender.
But I don't see "passing" as whether you are binary or not. I feel some people, esp trans women, may never be able to "pass" regardless. I have friends like this. I still see them as women.
--Jay
First of all, I don't give a rodent's rectum if I "pass" 100% of the time. The fact is that I don't, probably never will and worrying about that is a perfectly good waste of my time. Transitioning was clearly my best option in my pursuit of happiness, and it worked. Admittedly, most of the times I've been doubly scrutinized lately in public were by people that I had also pegged as trans (both MTF and FTM). It seems the transgen-dar of transpeople is a bit more sensitive than that of cisfolk.
That being said, I am and have always been female between my ears, regardless of what I have ever looked like.
well, thanks every one that helped ,now I can keep wearing my steel toe combat boots with my skinny jeans and print dress
Of course you can, it is a very large open umbrella.
Quote from: stephaniec on October 09, 2014, 08:57:48 AM
well, thanks every one that helped ,now I can keep wearing my steel toe combat boots with my skinny jeans and print dress
Hehe~ And I'm sure you look awesome in them, Stephanie. :)
Quote from: Pikachu on October 09, 2014, 09:07:10 AM
Hehe~ And I'm sure you look awesome in them, Stephanie. :)
thanks
Bionary camel explanation.... lol just make me think...... what day is it lol lol snicker lol love the camel.