Yesterday was a lovely sunny day and I was out walking in the local park which was full of people. I walked past two women pushing prams/strollers with their babies. In each case they both smiled at me and I smiled back as I walked past. When I used to be in guy mode I don't think women, let alone women pushing prams, have ever smiled at me. It's nice!! :D
I've had a few unexpected experiences, usually involving men, that haven't been as nice.
I feel like the way I am inhabiting and navigating the public space as a woman is, in some way I'm yet to fully grasp, quite different to my previous life as a male. How about you?
That's because you are here and not there anymore.
Thats awesome! When I had my mustache and beard (goatee) people looked at me bewildered or with shock. Only smiles I got were people trying to hold in laughter I think. Some people were even following me around the store trying to figure out what I was, I think. Since I shaved it all, I have been getting smiles from both sexes. I was trying hard to come off as male with the facial hair but I think it just confused people. I think the term is gender->-bleeped-<-.. is that correct term? It is so much nicer to not fake who you are and just be you! I wish now that my voice did not cause confusion.
:D
women smile and want to talk where as before nothing.
Since starting transition, and probably more so since starting hrt, I find that women are much more open with me than they were before. Yesterday I was waiting at a traffic light and there was a middle aged woman in a car going the other way, also waiting for the light to change, and she looked at me, and I looked at her and I smiled and she smiled back. The light changed, we waived at each other and on we went :)
I don't know whether this is minor changes in the way I look, or how the me on the inside finds i her way out in my facial expressions and body language, or maybe that I'm much more content in my life, but there is a definite change. As a lesbian I like this added interaction with other women and it adds a little extra fun to the day.
This probably doesn't count as public space since it happened at work, but it was still unexpected. I received a compliment about a necklace from a female colleague (not the unexpected bit) which then progressed to a discussion about necklaces and how certain styles suit certain bosom sizes which then progressed to a discussion about our boob size. It seemed so casual like talking about shoe size. Definitely would never have happened pre transition!
I've discovered that having a smile is a huge part of fitting into a woman's world. I never used to smile but now I do and it unlocks all kinds of kindness and acceptance from women. If I happen to have my old guy expression on I've noticed that people ask me if i'm unhappy or if something is wrong.
Learning the art of idle chit chat about women's issues (talk about boobs, the period, children, guys acting creepy, relationships, etc) is very important. Be a good listener, and if you have no experience in an area (ie: periods) just ask intelligent questions to mask your ignorance. Everyone likes to talk about themselves and by asking questions you let them do just that, and you learn things about them that you can use to ask about later. And you avoid having to talk about yourself.
Chatting in the ladies room is still weird to me, and the fact that on some days I don't like my voice and I hear it echoing around the walls in there just makes it worse. Some days I have a really femme voice and some days its very hoarse and I sound like a guy.
Quote from: Eva Marie on October 12, 2014, 01:26:08 AM
I've discovered that having a smile is a huge part of fitting into a woman's world. I never used to smile but now I do and it unlocks all kinds of kindness and acceptance from women. If I happen to have my old guy expression on I've noticed that people ask me if i'm unhappy or if something is wrong.
Learning the art of idle chit chat about women's issues (talk about boobs, the period, children, guys acting creepy, relationships, etc) is very important. Be a good listener, and if you have no experience in an area (ie: periods) just ask intelligent questions to mask your ignorance. Everyone likes to talk about themselves and by asking questions you let them do just that, and you learn things about them that you can use to ask about later. And you avoid having to talk about yourself.
Chatting in the ladies room is still weird to me, and the fact that on some days I don't like my voice and I hear it echoing around the walls in there just makes it worse. Some days I have a really femme voice and some days its very hoarse and I sound like a guy.
I found the same... i also hate talking in the ladies room... when i first presented and passed as a woman, i was surprised how much woman share.
the best moment i ever had when i was trying to lactate and my doctor pushed my hormone levels up, to try and trick my body i was pregnant.. anyways i attempted try a pregnancy test, i know now that would never work.. as there is a hormone only a pregnant woman gives when she conceives that us t-girls don't have.. anyways the experience..
i was looking at the tests.. and a young girl (later found out she was 19) was looking for a test, and she was scared.. i felt for her.. she then asked me.. how late are you. I quickly scrambled.. and said a week.. she was 1 and a half late.. she told me it was her time having sex and the guy was just a friend... and the condom broke.. she was scared her parents were going to kill her.. shame I saw her about 6 months later.. walking in the street.. and she was very pregnant. She was walking with an older woman, i assumed was her mother..
That experience really made me feel like one of the girls.
Do men really not get smiled at and smile back? I cannot imagine anymore. Its just natural life to look at people in the subway, eyes mee, smiles and so goes the day. Its been too long ago for me to remember if this differs from being regarded as a guy. I guess in the years before transitioning I was also a "femme guy" to the people so they did act differently. Some called me "young lady" already.
In any case it is good and very nice to be in a world where people smile at each other. If guys dont get to be part of that world, its sad.
Quote from: anjaq on October 12, 2014, 06:18:21 AM
Do men really not get smiled at and smile back? I cannot imagine anymore. Its just natural life to look at people in the subway, eyes mee, smiles and so goes the day. Its been too long ago for me to remember if this differs from being regarded as a guy. I guess in the years before transitioning I was also a "femme guy" to the people so they did act differently. Some called me "young lady" already.
In any case it is good and very nice to be in a world where people smile at each other. If guys dont get to be part of that world, its sad.
Guys kind of nod at each other, I never see them smile at each other if they are strangers. Just a slight nod. Here in the US anyway.
Nodding - that would feel me like there is a conspiracy. You know like the guy in movies who are doing some pplot and nod at each other and then hand over a bag with a bomb or something :P
I know some guys call each other seemingly hateful words for fun, too. I do not understand guys, but luckily I dont have to - at least not in total.
Quote from: anjaq on October 12, 2014, 06:44:02 AM
Nodding - that would feel me like there is a conspiracy. You know like the guy in movies who are doing some pplot and nod at each other and then hand over a bag with a bomb or something :P
I know some guys call each other seemingly hateful words for fun, too. I do not understand guys, but luckily I dont have to - at least not in total.
haha! YES, they do love to say hateful things. Just yesterday I was helping my friend fix his car. While I was doing all the work, him and my cousin pushed each other around and called each other sissy and little girl. Talking about how they know nothing about cars. Here I am, totally girly and fixing his breaks, got grease under my nails and everything. I just laughed at them while they roughhoused. I checked his oil... was empty. I scolded him and said to get some right away. I will check today to see if he did. Guys are pretty dumb sometimes. ::)
Quote from: ♡ Emily ♡ on October 12, 2014, 05:07:23 AM
Umm... Nobody has ever tried to kiss my hand.
heh, that would
freak me out!! :icon_blink: It's not really done in Australia much any more.
Actually, the other day I bumped into this guy who I had met via a work meeting two weeks ago. I was with a male work colleague at the time and when this guy had to leave he says to my colleague "See ya later mate" with a hefty hand shake (standard Aussie bloke-to-bloke farewell) and then I got a much lighter handshake, he smiled and said "Really nice to see you again, Grace"... oh dear! :icon_eyebrow:
Quote from: Ms Grace on October 12, 2014, 06:55:17 AM
heh, that would freak me out!! :icon_blink: It's not really done in Australia much any more.
Actually, the other day I bumped into this guy who I had met via a work meeting two weeks ago. I was with a male work colleague at the time and when this guy had to leave he says to my colleague "See ya later mate" with a hefty hand shake (standard Aussie bloke-to-bloke farewell) and then I got a much lighter handshake, he smiled and said "Really nice to see you again, Grace"... oh dear! :icon_eyebrow:
Our company has a couple of people that work in Australia and I work closely with them from California and we always got along fine. When i came out at work one of the Aussies said that he was still going to call me mate. I really wasn't quite sure if that was good or not (?) but I told him that would be fine.
To answer a question above - when strange guys smile at each other it's considered gay/creepy, and most guys don't want to be seen that way.
I'm learning middle-aged drunks tend to be freaky to girls. I was cycling home the other night and passed a group of three guys. One of them shouts after me "please take me with you on your bike" (on the rack(?) above your back wheel where you carry stuff) I giggled because this was completely unexpected, and glance back briefly before the realization hits "oh" and he shouts again "take me with you please".
While it's certainly nice (yet still confusing) to be gendered correctly, I'm not sure this is the sort of attention I'd choose to have.
Yes, there's good attention and then there's bad attention. Often it's fairly obvious which is which but sometimes the good can turn bad without much warning.
I've had quite a few experiences where I fit in "as a woman". E.g., not too long ago when I got on a crowded train and sat down next to a woman about my age. Within a couple of minutes we'd got into a conversation that lasted the whole time I was on the train.
And just the other day I went into my favourite café. It was early so I was the only customer there. The kitchen lady (Brida) came running out to tell me that the waitress (Angela) had date a couple of nights later. I looked over at Angela, who'd gone all red, and said to Brida, "Is that why she's blushing? I'd like to get a look at this fella!" And we all had a good laugh. It feels really good to be included in "girl things" like that.
Quote from: ♡ Emily ♡ on October 12, 2014, 05:07:23 AM
Umm... Nobody has ever tried to kiss my hand.
Quote from: Ms Grace on October 12, 2014, 06:55:17 AM
heh, that would freak me out!! :icon_blink: It's not really done in Australia much any more.
Hehehe, this
DID happen to me, a couple of months ago in Madrid, and nobody does it here either! :o I was walking home after a night out - absolutely common in Madrid and totally safe in my neighbourhood - when I stopped to look at some shoes in a window. A guy in his 60s walked past, stopped, made some small talk, then told me I was a beautiful woman (Pre-FFS, WTF!!) and asked if he could kiss my hand. I really didn't know what to do, but I agreed, and put whatever remained of my man-strength on full alert just in case. He kissed me, and then I fled home.
To be honest, I'm having a slightly weird time trying to deal with being hit on. It's a really weird experience for me. When I was a guy, I was totally forgettable, too small to be relevant, and certainly not attractive enough to be smiled at by anyone other than little old ladies. Now I go out with cis girlfriends and I'm the one getting the attention. Not only was I never expecting this to happen, ever, but I now need to think about how to gently turn guys down.
Last night, in a taxi home:
Driver: "You've got very pretty eyes"
Me: "Ummmmmm....................... (long pause).... thank you"
Driver: "So what's your name?"
Me : "It's A-"
Driver: "That's a pretty name."
Me: "Thanks, yours?"
Driver: "Ahmed" (Friends, I'm also an immigrant here; for me everyone is a citizen)
Driver: "So, can I call you some time"
Me: "............" (Sh*t, what do I do now?!)
Driver: "Do you live alone?"
Me: "No, I am recently divorced and I live with a few girlfriends who are expecting me..." (One sort-of truth, two lies)
Driver: "Can I have your number?"
Me: "That's really kind, but right now, with the divorce so recent, I'm really not ready for anything..."
Driver: "Well, would if be OK if I call you in some months?"
And on it went. Eventually I turned him down gracefully and he was gracious not to pursue it. I can hear a joke coming on: "Did you hear the one about the Pakistani taxi driver and the Jewish atheist pre-op transgender woman...?"
I swear that I'm not complaining; but this attention takes some getting used to! :D
xxx
J
A lot of creepy guys on the move it seems ;D I have to admit I'm secretly enjoying it now that I still don't pass in proper daylight...
Quote from: Eva Marie on October 12, 2014, 07:57:51 AM
To answer a question above - when strange guys smile at each other it's considered gay/creepy, and most guys don't want to be seen that way.
Ah. Maybe so many of us get though tof as gay pretransition because of this
Hehe - yes Taxi drivers. OMG. I had one 2 weeks ago who basically wanted to date me. He was even basically saying that I dont need to pay the fare if I give him a number. I did not. I rather paid and said goodbye. I could have given him a wrong number , but it was only 5 bucks, so not worth it ;)
I think he was African, did not speak any German at all, just english. He kept on telling me that he likes "strong women" - I get this a lot - being hit on by africans, they seem to be culturally attracted more to women who are not exactly underweight :P
Freakin' EVERYTHING. It's all different. Some days it's hard to wrap my head around it all, like I can't dwell on it just gotta roll with it.
Some examples though....
-Men checking me out and trying to talk to me, opening doors for me. Etc. And me having to determine their intentions and just how to respond to them.
-Checking men out and having them look back.
-Going to the women's restroom or changing room, interacting with other women, and just totally blending in.
-Being the 'token female' in a group of guys, being the target of their sexism, and not being listened to by them 50-75% of the time.
-Being regarded as a sex object by men.
-Having to use my sexuality to influence men (and some women).
-Being complimented by both men and women. Especially being told I have cute shoes or something.
-Arguing with the sales woman about inseam.
-Being exasperated when I can't find a salesperson to bring me different sized shoes.
-Having to pretend to have been a lesbian when discussing past relationship with people.
-Having to pretend I'm on 'the pill' in front of other people.
-Having to pretend getting pregnant is a thing around other people.
-Other women loaning me their kids.
-Being short around almost every guy around me.
-Discussing footwear and pants with a woman in a nail salon, and blending in while getting my nails done.
-Also had a woman smile at me the other day when I waved as she walked by with her two cute lil daughters who were all pushing strollers.
-Having to work into a conversation that I'm not dating/screwing my roommate so the woman he's talking to didn't assume I was with him.
-Just, women's restrooms in general...
-Men not accepting money from me, and other oddly sexist things...
-Gender roles, PDA, and basically everything that comes with having a boyfriend and being out in public.
-Being wary, cautious, 'self-contained', and sometimes nervous out by myself or at night especially. And not being able to go out alone at night without worrying a lot.
-Everyone trying to help me with every little thing.
A lot of the time it's little things that are totally different and totally not issues or occurrences that used to happen. I can probably think of a whole lot more, though I'm not sure how many of those were exactly on topic. Being a woman is just, very different sometimes..
I once got ma'amed at the drive through with my voice. I also dressed up enfemme when I was out of town, drove around and bought dinner and no one seemed to notice. It was a confidence booster as I'm pre everything.
Cis women are more social, they smile more at people & are so much more open than any male. I really love it & I take the inniative quite a bit to smile & speak with women all the time. Even big box stores like Walmart with lots of people around & most women will still make eye contact, smile & say something. Often while shopping at a thrift store I will smile & ask a woman if she can read the size tag on a piece of clothing just to be nice & maybe talk some. (I use reading glasses & can read the tag) Sometimes we will talk a lot while shopping. It feels so much better to smile & be nicer to people. Most of the time the more attractive the woman is the more she smiles & speaks. So for me it feels good.
When a woman I don't know smiles at me, it's like sunshine on my heart.
Quote from: suzifrommd on October 12, 2014, 04:27:30 PM
When a woman I don't know smiles at me, it's like sunshine on my heart.
He he... when another woman, usually a well-dressed one, gives me the head-to-toe laser scan,
that's a little ray of sunshine.
If you're badly dressed they don't bother :D Superficial, I know...
When women smile at me I avert my eyes and pretend not to notice because I know they want something I'm not prepared to deliver. Being NB androgynous has it's drawbacks, not everything is cut and dried like it is for some of you. I used to respond to smiles and smile back, then they want to chat me up and feel me out to see if I might qualify as a friend, some are looking for some kind of kinky experience with a nice looking male/female whatever it is, I just don't want to deal with it anymore, been there done that and all it does is bring unnecessary drama, anxiety and grief. I have a nice spouse and several nice lady friends and that's quite sufficient for me.
Ummm the other day I was taking the subway and had a really heavy suitcase that I was having issues carrying down the stairs and a guy offered to help me :)
Quote from: Julia-Madrid on October 12, 2014, 04:49:46 PM
He he... when another woman, usually a well-dressed one, gives me the head-to-toe laser scan, that's a little ray of sunshine.
I had that happen the other day at my apartment complex a few months ago. I was going somewhere and I took the elevator to the 1st floor, and when the door opened my older female neighbor who I have a waving-as-I-come-and-go-but-she-doesn't-know-i'm-trans relationship with was standing there. I got the head to toe scan and then she smiled. I said "Hi" and got off the elevator. I still don't know if she ever connected male me with female me or what she was thinking :laugh:
I no longer scare small children. It's weird now that they tend to smile at me instead of screaming or crying. Was I really that scary?
Ah yeah, cabbies. I now sit in the back seat, no more riding shotgun for me. Not that I expect any funny stuff (Sydney cabs are regulated to the eyeballs) but they're much less likely to start up a conversation which I'd prefer to avoid anyway. It seems the done thing with most women in Sydney so I just followed their lead (men usually sit in the front).
Quote from: Jill F on October 13, 2014, 02:26:52 AM
I no longer scare small children. It's weird now that they tend to smile at me instead of screaming or crying. Was I really that scary?
Well, I've seen your pre-transition licence and... ;)
Quote from: Ms Grace on October 13, 2014, 02:49:27 AM
Well, I've seen your pre-transition licence and... ;)
Was it more in a psycho killer or a panel van driver kind of way?
Quote from: Julia-Madrid on October 12, 2014, 04:49:46 PM
He he... when another woman, usually a well-dressed one, gives me the head-to-toe laser scan, that's a little ray of sunshine.
If you're badly dressed they don't bother :D Superficial, I know...
I got scanned by a woman a couple of days ago , totally weird
Quote from: Ms Grace on October 11, 2014, 03:28:07 PM
Yesterday was a lovely sunny day and I was out walking in the local park which was full of people. I walked past two women pushing prams/strollers with their babies. In each case they both smiled at me and I smiled back as I walked past. When I used to be in guy mode I don't think women, let alone women pushing prams, have ever smiled at me. It's nice!! :D
I've had a few unexpected experiences, usually involving men, that haven't been as nice.
I feel like the way I am inhabiting and navigating the public space as a woman is, in some way I'm yet to fully grasp, quite different to my previous life as a male. How about you?
The public space is not my major concern, as all recognize and treat me as an extremely tall woman.
My concern is usually my colleagues, friends, and those people who I meet in meetings and for business purposes. Usually men do not show any unusual responses: they just treat me as a man. Women are different. They are more friendly, commenting on my fashion items. One woman complained at me as I did not remember her well, while other men do not care whether I remember them well or not (I interact with dozens of new people every week, and it is impossible for me to remember them all, but they all remember me very well!). Most women are straightforward in praising my fashion items, while a few men do that. Of course, a few men comment negatively, or try to admonish not to wear like my way. Most women try to help me with fashion and beauty whether I ask it or not.
Yes. I prefer women as my friends....
barbie~~
I find it so natural to chat with women about clothes, hair, and jewelry before and we trade compliments. It is NICE! I never thought I had a fashion sense until I began presenting full-time and now I'm rocking chic retro looks that go over really well here in Portland.
I never thought I'd enjoy the visibility that comes with being female, but it's actually kind of nice.
Some of the fasion comments are trans specific though, I noticed. So women will actually comment more about nice necklaces and fashion styles with transwomen (to encourage them in their self confidence) than they would with cismen. There is a subtle difference...
Quote from: Julia-Madrid on October 12, 2014, 02:14:08 PM
A guy in his 60s walked past, stopped, made some small talk, then told me I was a beautiful woman (Pre-FFS, WTF!!) and asked if he could kiss my hand. I really didn't know what to do, but I agreed,
I experience that a lot, it's always older men wanting to kiss my hand, I'm now middle age, I sometimes go to work parties with my other half, get introduce formally to his work colleagues, if it's an older man in his 60s, most will kiss my hand, I found it a bit unnerving, this guy in his 60s kiss my hand, then ask my other half, ''would the lovely lady like a drink'' he didn't speak to me directly, which I think was out of respect for my husband, it felt strange, but nice, older men are old fashion in attitudes to women, but gentlemen in their own way, always on their best behavour in the presence of a lady, it's a very feminine experience.
Quote from: pretty pauline on October 14, 2014, 05:45:16 PM
I experience that a lot, it's always older men wanting to kiss my hand, I'm now middle age, I sometimes go to work parties with my other half, get introduce formally to his work colleagues, if it's an older man in his 60s, most will kiss my hand, I found it a bit unnerving, this guy in his 60s kiss my hand, then ask my other half, ''would the lovely lady like a drink'' he didn't speak to me directly, which I think was out of respect for my husband, it felt strange, but nice, older men are old fashion in attitudes to women, but gentlemen in their own way, always on their best behavour in the presence of a lady, it's a very feminine experience.
I agree that sometimes men with a way of behaving that harks back to some previous generation can be charming. For me it's still a case of getting used to that kind of treatment in general...
Quote from: Julia-Madrid on October 16, 2014, 09:25:30 AM
For me it's still a case of getting used to that kind of treatment in general...
It just takes time to adjust, you will get used to the attention, both positive and negative, unneving and alarming sometimes, cab drivers hitting with charm, the same night that older guy kiss my hand, a younger guy in his early 30s politely asked me to dance, when it got to the slow stage his hands where everywhere, feeling my butt etc, when I eventually escaped to the ladies room, I got into conversion with another woman who asked if I was ok, then we just had girly chit chat on husbands and nice compliments on my hair and outfit. Compliments from another woman is nice, your now getting used to being a woman Julia, enjoy it, positive and negatives, welcome to womanhood.
I was riding a bus home after doing some shopping and I was talking to this guy on the bus. While I had been talking to him towards the end before I got off the bus he had been writing on a piece of paper. Just as I was getting off and before anyone else can board the bus he handed me the piece of paper with his name and number on it. He left note mentioning to feel free to call anytime.
Mariah
Everyone is super nice and chatty with me, which I love.
Mentally disabled teenager masturbating over me in the car next to mine while I was trying to eat my pizza and garlic bread. Loved that.
Quote from: kaye on October 16, 2014, 08:55:44 PM
Mentally disabled teenager masturbating over me in the car next to mine while I was trying to eat my pizza and garlic bread. Loved that.
Uh oh.
Yes. Once a seemingly mentally disabled young guy chased me when I was walking with my friends in a Taiwanese downtown. My friends noticed that he was pissing in the street.
barbie~~
Today I tried to take some photos by my Canon EOS camera with a tripod in a huge public park. A group of men passed me, chatting each other like "She seems need help" and "Should you try to help her".
Finally one guy shouted at me, "May I take photos for you?"
I just ignored it, walking away from them.
Today me.
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5613/14951705253_4c7c80eec7_b.jpg)
barbie~~
Why did you ignore it?
Quote from: Julia-Madrid on October 12, 2014, 02:14:08 PM
I can hear a joke coming on: "Did you hear the one about the Pakistani taxi driver and the Jewish atheist pre-op transgender woman...?"
I would
really like to hear the rest of this joke! :)