Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Community Conversation => Transsexual talk => Female to male transsexual talk (FTM) => Topic started by: thereishope on October 13, 2014, 11:20:18 PM

Title: i don't know if i could ever see myself a real man
Post by: thereishope on October 13, 2014, 11:20:18 PM
feeling 'damned if i do, damned if i don't' lately and it's driving me nuts.

i just don't see how i could ever really see myself as a man when i know that i was born with xx chromosomes (well, 99% sure), that i was born with all my female parts fully intact, that i have a uterus and breasts and curves and the whole nine yards.

if i go through transition, i feel like i'd only be changing my appearance and not even to the extent that i would want because i'll always know the truth: that i was born a girl, that i have scars from removing the breasts that naturally grew on me, that i changed the hormonal balance that was naturally in my body, that my dick is really a clit, that i still have a vagina, and presumably those xx chromosomes. i'll probably always be able to see the feminine things in my face and body too, the things i knew were there.

i feel like going through transition would mean changing from female to hermaphrodite more than it would mean changing from female to male, especially because i probably won't have bottom surgery.

i don't feel happy living as a woman either though. i feel like i will never be truly satisfied if i continue living female but i don't see how i could be much happier living as a trans male. i do feel that, in my core, my mind and personality and identity is male but i also feel like i can't deny the physical truth right in front of me every day. that i would feel like some kind of bionic man, not a real one. that i'd always be inadequate to cis men.

the truth is, no matter how much i wish it would have happened, i was not born male. maybe my mind is wired male, maybe something happened like a testosterone wash before i was born (who knows? i'll never find out for sure), but so what?

even if my mind is wired male, does that mean i -am- a male? i don't know, i honestly don't think so anymore. i may be partly male, mentally male, but i don't think i could ever say "i'm a man" and believe it's true. how do we know if we have men's brains anyway? not all men are the same. who's to say we are not just women with more masculinely wired brains? there are definitely some very masculine women in this world. what separates them from us? body dysphoria alone?

i feel sick thinking about it most of the time and don't know how to get past this. how do you guys really see yourselves as men, 100%, undeniably, confidently, when you know that you were born female and can never get your body to match a cis guy's body?

not trying to offend anyone here, i just am at my wit's end thinking about this crap and would like to hear your points of view because i see people posting all the time saying "i can't pretend to be a girl when i'm not" and "i've always been male" etc and i just can't wrap my head around it.
Title: Re: i don't know if i could ever see myself a real man
Post by: AeroZeppelin92 on October 14, 2014, 12:09:46 AM
Yes, I have always felt male. And yes, there were years spent of my life trying to suppress it to fit in. I also felt this despair of not being born bio before too. But...You have to learn to love yourself. No, you're never going to be the same as a bio guy. You'll have scars. So what. I know bio guys missing limbs that were naturally there before, but now they must wear prosthetics. Doesn't make them any less of a man or "bionic". People get organ transplants that weren't naturally theirs but it necessary for their survival.  You need to be stop being so self defeating. Your confusion is stemmed from your own self doubt.  Talk to someone, a professional.  I feel as though you should seek therapy. The only way you'll be able to wrap your head around it is for you to figure it out for yourself. I don't mean any of this in a mean way. Nobody's answer is going to be the answer you are looking for that is going to straighten it out or clear things up for you. That's something everyone has to do for themselves. You may not have been born biologically male. But hey, you're alive, right? And lucky enough to be in a time that has the science allowing you to transition.
Title: Re: i don't know if i could ever see myself a real man
Post by: Liam Erik on October 14, 2014, 12:54:52 AM
What male is, in the first place, is a rather bendy concept.  You can't say that any particular thing qualifies or disqualifies another person from maleness, except that person's say so.  The whole gender thing is nuanced and individualized.  It's not like a specific token that you can carry one of, or the other, even though lots of people's traditions tell them it is. 

-- You're allowed to own your own identity. --

To be perhaps too frank, there ain't no point in giving a sh** about cis guys.  If it makes you happier to adjust your presentation or your body for yourself, that's why you do it.  How do you get on with life as somebody who's different?  Or how do you get on with life at all?  Well... you just do.  Plan B sucks, and there's no plan C.

Anyway, I find that the contents of a person's trousers have little influence on daily life.  The configuration of one's chromosomes has absolutely none.  You wouldn't even know they were there, except you read about them. 

I hope I don't sound patronizing or like I'm trying to give harsh truth ::) I don't mean to.  This is my philosophy of it.  Like AeroZeppelin says, your issue gets into some deep personal stuff not the kind of thing that other people can really figure out for you, but a professional might help get you there.
Title: Re: i don't know if i could ever see myself a real man
Post by: NathanielM on October 14, 2014, 01:08:28 AM
I've not always felt like a guy. I do now and I think wether or not us transguys feel like *Realtm* guys has to do very little with our physical appearances. Yes it probably gets easier when you start looking the part, but transition is mostly in your head.

When I started I felt like you, I would never be a proper guy because well, I wasn't. For me finding support with other guys in my group helped me out, maybe an option for you? I realized that I didn't need to be a *REALtm* guy, but I was simply a guy. Don't ask me how I got there but it's a process, therapy helped, friends and support helped, looking at my own thoughts and the way I looked at myself helped. What didn't help was turning in circles about it and obsessing over it :) Although that didn't stop me from doing it anyway :p

The thing is, I'm not transitioning to be The Male. I'm transitioning so I can be happier, so I can feel better about my body, about the words people use to describe me... When I started the process, I didn't kow for sure if I'd ever be a guy. I knew I wasn't a woman and I knew I wanted certain things to change. Along the way I started knowing more, and at a certain point I suddenly realized I felt like a guy now. Even though physically things haven't changed, the way I think about myself has. And that's what for me transition is mostly about.

I agree with the therapy suggestion, talking this over with someone who knows what their talking about really helps with getting out of your own head. And I'm sorry with the big post, I got a little carried away :p
Title: Re: i don't know if i could ever see myself a real man
Post by: Cindy on October 14, 2014, 02:16:25 AM
If a girl can put forward a comment.

I think these thoughts are common no matter what direction we are going. I have been privileged to meet many transmen and my goddess they 'pass' really well after being on T for a while. So don't despair .

Chromosomes - well I went into this and found over 300 cases of natal females who had given birth and their karyotype was XY, there is also a number of XX natal males. So chromosomes are not an end rule. We have 300 genes that determine gender, mutations in a few of these render us trans*. We are not freaks we are normal men and women who had a bad toss of the gender dice.

Getting your head around this can be really hard and a good gender therapist is a god send. Can we ever be the men and women that we identify as? Of course we can and we do. Never give in to doubt. We are normal and special human beings who demand and deserve respect - and we shall have it. Every man and woman of us.
Title: Re: i don't know if i could ever see myself a real man
Post by: stephaniec on October 14, 2014, 02:19:31 AM
well, from the other side of the tracks, I'll just say this is where I belong, I feel so real as a female its a much better social fit
Title: Re: i don't know if i could ever see myself a real man
Post by: Kreuzfidel on October 14, 2014, 04:45:44 AM
I'm a man and have always known I was a man.  By wrapping yourself up in the trap of defining sex by chromosomes alone, you're denying the genders of intersex people who were born with a variety of chromosomes.

By that reckoning, are people with Down Syndrome actually human?  They have that extra chromosome, ya know.  All this sounds a lot like Pinocchio thinking he'll never be a "real boy". 

I can't change your mind, but it's something you need to learn for yourself - being a man is about more than just the chromosomes in your blood or whether or not you have a "real dick". 
Title: Re: i don't know if i could ever see myself a real man
Post by: AdamMLP on October 14, 2014, 07:35:32 AM
I am male, because despite what my physical form happens to show that the moment, I know what I am, and what makes me feel comfortable on this earth.  I am able to function as male, and I no longer get constant, incessant irritation of being read as female.  I still have dysphoria surrounding my body, and that's something which I can only hope will lessen in the future when I finally have testosterone flowing in my body like I should always have had.  I've disassociated from my body a fair bit these days which makes it easier to deal with, and to stop thinking about the wrongness of it all.

I didn't know how much coming out and living as male would improve my life until I did.  I didn't think it would change anything to a large extent as I'd been presenting as male for over three years prior to my coming out, the only difference to my life then and now was that I had a female name, and had the female box ticked on paperwork.  Then I came out, and no longer had to hear that name or pronouns, no longer had to share a room with girls, no longer had to walk through that door with a stereotypical silhouette of a woman to go to the toilet.  I no longer had the low simmering of anger all day long, I could just live and be free.

When I first realised that I was trans I found it very hard to come to terms with the future of my genitals.  I hated thinking of testosterone making it into something not quite here nor there.  Since then I've seen some recent good metoidioplasty results, and feel more confident in that it will one day be like it should always have been.  And I no longer think of testosterone as making it into something inbetween, but rather wishing for testosterone sooner so it begins that growth, and I'm looking forward to being grateful for very millimeter that I get.  It was one of the hardest things for me to get my head around for me though in the beginning.  I come a long way in my thoughts about it since.

As for chromosomes, you don't even know for a fact that you are XX.  A lot of people have atypical chromosomes without ever realising unless they have chromosome screening.  Do they really make that much difference to your daily life?

All that said though, I find, like quite a few people from what I've read in discussions about it before, that the word "man" doesn't always fit as well as other near synonyms, guy, bloke, boy, etc.  My explanation for this is that I don't look in the mirror and see a man, either I see something which makes dysphoric, or something which resembles a boy.  I have not had a male puberty yet, and that's one of the first precursors to being a man in my view, and there's much more of that to being a man in my opinion.  Like Rudyard Kipling's "If—" I think there's more to being a Man than just being an adult male.  Obviously they're men, but they're not Men, if that makes sense, and I can't see myself as that capitalised version of the word, which I think of when I say "I'm a Man."

Part of my issue with considering myself a Man is also I think to do with never being referred to it as well.  It was sort of a bit of a turning moment for me when we were discussing our childhoods, schools, and work, and how they've all become a bit namby-pamby, and he said, "But that's ridiculous, you're eighteen, you're a man."  I no longer speak with my father so having a guy around the same age as him saying that to me brought up a few emotions.

Maleness is a complicated thing, but it's something you need to work out for yourself if you fit into that category, and then what you want to with that information when you work it out.  One thing to remember is that, if you're not sure if you'll feel any better in a male role is that you'll never know unless you try it.  Will it make you feel any worse than you do now to transition?
Title: Re: i don't know if i could ever see myself a real man
Post by: thereishope on October 14, 2014, 04:42:14 PM
thanks for the responses

first of all, i never said that it was just my chromosomes that made me "female". that's just one of many things but 99% chances that i was born with xx, which dictated how my body developed, so it's not like chromosomes have no importance whatsoever. they are, in almost all cases, the code that makes our bodies develop one way or another.

i don't know about all of you but most of us are not intersex. afaik, i'm not, there is no reason to think i am either. i was born with a vagina, i went through puberty and developed boobs and curves, i get my period regularly, etc. the chances of me being intersex are extremely slim.

you all say there's so much to being male besides our bodies but i'd like to hear what you think it means then

what makes you so certain that you were born with a male brain? what does being born with a male brain even mean, when there are so many different types of men in this world? that's my question here.

i could go down my own list and say well, i always had male interests, male friends growing up, never felt like i fit in with girls, always wrote stories from a male perspective, always wished i had been born male, see myself as male during sex, blah blah blah...but how can i say any of that or even the sum total -makes me male instead of a masculine female-? 

and even if i was born with a male brain, i still don't see how i could ever say "i -am- male" because my body isn't and really never will be no matter what i do.

as far as gender therapy, oh hell yeah, i need it badly lol and am going to pursue it but i am strapped for cash at the moment, haven't come out to my family, etc so i can't get into it just yet. until then i wish i could find at least some peace of mind about this though because i am obsessing over it in an unhealthy way



Title: Re: i don't know if i could ever see myself a real man
Post by: Brandon on October 14, 2014, 05:00:04 PM
I have always seen my self as male and have known regardless so do most of my peers whole school at that, Someone needs to atudy human sexuality everyone has a vagina in the womb your clitoris is actually a tiny underdeveloped penis or the inverse of that would be that a penis is an oversized clit, there are lots of things that makes a man a man. Being a provider, getting out here and working, taking care of buisness, respect, beingthe bigger man just n certain situations, as far as I am concerned and others I am jist as much of a real man as others if not more, come on know having enough balls to come out in highschool takes serious balls. You can't let your physical appearence define you, you know who you are. And actually if you wanna get technical being trans is kind of an intersexed condition you don't have to come out with mixed parts just to be trans there is a mismatch between the brain and the body there is a difference between a man and womans brain. Honestly since I work out and you couldn't tell by looking at my body that I am a trans male I just say I have a atypical male body or ambigous. Not much to it.
Title: Re: i don't know if i could ever see myself a real man
Post by: Brandon on October 14, 2014, 05:03:22 PM
Scientist have done studies on trans men and women, trust me there is a huge difference between how men and women think thats one of the big reasons why even my male friends think its difficult to look at me as female, Most girls say I am a peverted little boy in a joking manner and they like it but thats just how us guys are especially in highschool, your body is not that different from a male body. You are capable of getting erections and everything else.

Title: Re: i don't know if i could ever see myself a real man
Post by: Brandon on October 14, 2014, 05:08:03 PM
Also there is a big ass difference between knowing your male and just wanting to do more masculine things which is the main reason I have never had a lesbian attracted to me because pre T or not they know I am a dude, you ask my friends what I am they will say he's a dude.
Title: Re: i don't know if i could ever see myself a real man
Post by: mrs izzy on October 14, 2014, 05:10:51 PM
Quote from: Brandon on October 14, 2014, 05:08:03 PM
Also there is a big ass difference between knowing your male and just wanting to do more masculine things which is the main reason I have never had a lesbian attracted to me because pre T or not they know I am a dude, you ask my friends what I am they will say he's a dude.

Brandon watch the nasty words/language that is filtering into your posts please. You know the drill.
Title: Re: i don't know if i could ever see myself a real man
Post by: Sephirah on October 14, 2014, 05:32:32 PM
Quote from: thereishope on October 14, 2014, 04:42:14 PM
you all say there's so much to being male besides our bodies but i'd like to hear what you think it means then

Just to chime in here. What I'm going to say will make no sense, and I'm sorry for that, but for me it means a feeling you get from people. Nothing to do with how one looks or acts. Something more. Maybe self-actualisation, self confidence, a projection of comfort with how one feels. It's something... inexplicable. Maybe subconscious methods of expression picked up on at a deeper level, maybe something else. I am sure a bunch of people will try to put a word to it, and there's probably an -ism or an -ology or an -ality for it, but what I can say with a large degree of certainly is that the feeling I get from a lot of guys here is very similar to the one I get from a lot of cis guys I meet.

It is more than your bodies. It's a part of the psyche. The fundamental essence of what makes you... you. Call it consciousness, or any other word you'd care to choose. I know there's sometimes a lot of emphasis placed on what one does, how one looks, how one dresses or acts... all symptoms. The underlying cause is what the emphasis should be on. Maybe it's just plain sentience, who knows. Self-determinism. And once you determine yourself it flows through you, and into everything you do, say, feel, think and accomplish. It's the image of yourself you see behind your eyes when you sleep, when you dream, when you wake and try to look beyond your reflection. The underlying certainty of who you are.

And, well, I see people have that here in spades. A certainty without needing constant affirmation. I meet and talk to guys here that during which conversations it wouldn't even occur to me that this was a trans related forum because they just are who they are, have found acceptance in that, and their lives reflect themselves. However they choose to live it. However far they are in their transitions, and even if they haven't started. For those guys, being a man just means being themselves.

I know that was as clear as mud, and I'm sorry, but I don't know any other way to explain it.
Title: Re: i don't know if i could ever see myself a real man
Post by: aleon515 on October 14, 2014, 10:32:51 PM
I don't like the term "real man" as I don't even know what that means. I'm real in that this is who I am in my heart but I do accept the feminine parts of myself, actually embrace them. But you'll hear from me if you misgender me. It's this confusing? You bet. :)

--Jay
Title: Re: i don't know if i could ever see myself a real man
Post by: LittleBoyBear on October 14, 2014, 11:41:37 PM
This little nugget of self-doubt keeps creeping in for me, too. I just keep trying to remember how I felt accepting the idea of being trans and being able to do something about it. For a fleeting moment, it felt like everything was going to be okay. I need to hold onto that, I think...
Title: Re: i don't know if i could ever see myself a real man
Post by: NathanielM on October 15, 2014, 01:29:19 AM
For me the difference between male and masculine female was simple: I felt unconfortable and unhappy as a masculine female and good as a male. Done.

Well I wish. I had all these doubts too, I first came out as 'not a girl' when I was sixteen after years of doubting and feeling bad. 3 years later I decided to do something, 3 years spent full of  what you are thinking. How do I know? That was my main question, how can I be sure of what I am.

And this is probably not what you want to hear but no amount of hearing other people tell you you're a dude or telling you why this or this is or isn't important to being a guy will help you with it. Think on it, stop thinking on it, start over again. We'll be here and I know you'll figure it out when you're ready. (Only to have secret doubts pop up again 6 months later :p but you'll be ready to deal with them then). 
Title: Re: i don't know if i could ever see myself a real man
Post by: Taka on October 15, 2014, 04:51:27 AM
the brain is a part of the body. actually even its control center.
if the brain is male, then the body is too. genitals don't matter at all. the control center is always right.
as long as it isn't creating weird illusions due to mental illness.

hormones control emotions and pheromones.
if testosterone matches your brain and makes you smell like a man, how could female genitals make you a woman?
that's just like saying a man can become a woman with srs. (a "real" cis man, that is.)

pheromones control sexual behavior a whole lot more than our brains let us know.
it that kind of sexy scent that doesn't have a proper name. it's just really sexy. turns you on if you close your eyes to the person's appearance.
very strictly straight or gay people will have problems seeing someone (in a sexual attraction related way) as a man or woman, if their sex hormones are opposite of that. it just smells wrong, in an undefinable but still real way.


another thing, to me a "real man" is a concept. i know many women who are manlier than the average man. only thing that's between them and a "real man" is their gender identity. cis men also have a lot to live up to in order to be seen as real men. it's not an easy title to obtain, and not something you should worry too much about. just be the guy you are, that's all you need to do or be. (most men can't be rambo, so why try too hard.)
Title: Re: i don't know if i could ever see myself a real man
Post by: adrian on October 15, 2014, 05:23:27 AM
Hi there,

I just wanted to recommend Sam Killerman's book on gender. it's a free e-book available from his page itspronouncedmetrosexual.com.

I think the book does a good job at unpacking "gender", and what it means to be male or female, cis or trans*. The book doesn't have all the answers, and it sometimes oversimplifies things (consciously though), but it's a good place to start exploring.

Personally I think that there's no such thing as a "real man" - or rather that masculinity is real in all shapes and sizes. I know society wants to make us believe otherwise, but I'm not buying it!
Title: Re: i don't know if i could ever see myself a real man
Post by: Taka on October 15, 2014, 06:53:44 AM
i'm not buying it either, but mostly because it's not for sale.
even the free versions are flawed, if tested against society's standards.
Title: Re: i don't know if i could ever see myself a real man
Post by: FriendsCallMeChris on October 15, 2014, 06:56:02 AM
Quote from: adrian on October 15, 2014, 05:23:27 AM
I just wanted to recommend Sam Killerman's book on gender. it's a free e-book available from his page itspronouncedmetrosexual.com.
Thanks, Adrian for the recommendation.

Title: Re: i don't know if i could ever see myself a real man
Post by: FriendsCallMeChris on October 15, 2014, 07:24:50 AM
Great topic!
So here's me, jumping in.
I'm a product of the 70s and 80s. 
Here's an embarrassing factoid.  I didn't know what transgender was until about 6 months ago.  Yeah, really.  Apparently, I live under a rock.  By accident, (are there really accidents?),  I saw a youtube video of a guy pre-T to 2year T  and my stomach dropped.  it was like --hey! That's me!  Or could be me?  Or something?  Anyway, I got fascinated and watched hours and hours and hours of videos.  And then did a lot of thinking and talking it out with my bff who is really proving that she is an extraordinary woman. (she had to learn what transgender was, too.  Then she says, of course you are!) 

So, anyway: 
My mantra growing up is 'Gender doesn't matter.'    Remember, I've been saying this since the first time my 1st grade teacher told me girls  couldn't stand on desks, only boys could.  And my mom, feminist that she was, said girls could do anything boys could do.  So, apparently, that's how I've protected my psyche all these years. 

Yes, I think like a guy.  Explaining it makes me sound like I believe in stereoptypes (which I don't--repeating mantra, Gender doesn't' matter.)  Okay.  I'm starting to kinda believe in stereotypes.   Because I'm starting to see patterns.  I have very few friends that are girls. I am very logical.  I have to fake emotional swings to fit in with 'the girls' and be accepted by many of 'the guys' who need a feminine around to define their masculine.  I make these guys uncomfortable as they try to do masculine things for me like tell me I'm cute and open doors for me.  They make me uncomfortable, too. 

For the guys that don't need that femme to play off of, I'm definitely one of them. When I'm around the women that exude femininity, I move out of their circle (physically) and my mind drifts as they talk.  I just can't do that much emotional swing.  It makes me itch and twitch and I need to back away.  Around those women (and most women) I feel very protective.  I'm not very big, physically, but I am ready and in 'watch mode' and have often caught myself opening bottles and doors, picking up stuff, etc, without thinking about it.  Protection/herding mode.

Did I mention that I'm an engineer.  Very male dominated field, right?  I've been an engineering supervisor in the past, too.   That femme/not femme stuff gets interesting there.   

Here's the funny thing--about that scent or vibe that Taka talks about.  When the guys I work with get comfortable enough w/ me,  many of them treat me like one of the guys.  I can tell when their  protection/herding mode drops (which is a total relief!) and they don't even think of  opening a door for me or offering to carry my gear.  I live in the deep South. Those manners are ingrained from the cradle. It's some powerful stuff when the guys forget their manners because their psyche is telling them I'm one of them.

So, how did I explain all this to my repressed self all these years?  'Gender doesn't matter.'  But, you see, it does.  It matters that I'm the protector and not the protected. Otherwise, I feel like I'm not fulfilling my purpose.  It matters in a lot of other ways, too, but that's the one I'll talk about for this too-long post.

So, anyway, ever since I said the words out loud, to my empty room, 'I am transgender', I've felt this huge relief.  Like I'm not guilty of being wrong anymore.  Like all the pretending I've been doing, pretending to like girl things and act and feel girl ways, is not because I'm doing something wrong, it's because I've had to do it to survive.  And now, I am taking painfully slow, logical, calculated steps to no longer have to pretend.  Some days (more hours than days, really), when I am surrounded by the two friends who 'know the real me', when I don't have to pretend to be a girl--On those days, I feel sheer bliss.  I didn't know that kind of happy existed.

So, I am a guy.  Transgendered.  Through hormone flood in the uterus, or DNA or fairy dust or whatever.    I'm not rebelling on purpose to make my mother uncomfortable (notice how I throw this in at the end so I didn't have to say too much about it!).  This is just the way I was put together.  And soon, as soon as I can make it happen, I'm going to go after that bliss full time.

End of too long post!
Chris   

(edited for spelling)
Title: Re: i don't know if i could ever see myself a real man
Post by: adrian on October 15, 2014, 08:00:15 AM
Quote from: Taka on October 15, 2014, 06:53:44 AM
i'm not buying it either, but mostly because it's not for sale.
even the free versions are flawed, if tested against society's standards.
:icon_ihearu: Thanks, that made me smile, which is rare these days :) As the saying goes, there's no such thing as a free ... gender role.

Chris, I'm having the same internal debates - I'm still trying to figure out what makes me (want to) act and dress in a certain way, and why I have done so even before I had figured out that I'm trans (I had a similar epiphany as you did not too long ago). So how do I reconcile my desire to be perceived as an average male and my wish to subvert gender stereotypes? Argh!
Title: Re: i don't know if i could ever see myself a real man
Post by: Taka on October 15, 2014, 08:09:19 AM
really interesting post, chris!

it's an interesting feeling when guys drop their guard around you and forget you're of female build. doesn't happen to all. some are weirded out, others never manage to see past the exterior (or the genitals which they don't even see).

the smell thing is something that can make forming sexual or romantic relationships difficult. some gay men only get attracted to men who smell like men. doesn't matter if they look and act male. some women probably have it the same way. or hrt could change a spouse's level of attraction. these things are unfortunately impossible to know from person to person. it could be that very strict monosexuality is actually not as frequent as general monosexuality. i don't think any research has been done on this yet, outside confirming that smelling male pheromones will trigger a reaction in the part of the brain that seems to control sexuality, in androsexual people.
Title: Re: i don't know if i could ever see myself a real man
Post by: Athena on October 15, 2014, 09:48:49 AM
Be you.
Title: Re: i don't know if i could ever see myself a real man
Post by: FriendsCallMeChris on October 15, 2014, 10:28:13 AM
Quote from: White Rabbit on October 15, 2014, 09:48:49 AM
Be you.

I've got to admit here, White Rabbit, that being me sometimes takes some thinking and self-discovery.  I have to question if many of my first inclinations are from societal learning/survival/approval or if they are really me.  I'm also having to make sure I don't go stereotypical macho to prove a point to myself or others.  Throwing in that I'm a gay guy who looks like a girl doesn't help with that much.  Layers upon layers of society expectation and years of conditioning have taken a heavy toll on who I am.  It's kind of amazing there's anything of me left, really.  I definitely sympathize with the OP.  I've been through some heavy months of self-questioning and enough inner turmoil to make my stomach roil twenty-four/seven for a while.   Lots of trying to compromise with myself of maybe I can keep all this in and nothing will change.  Yet I am changing in attitude and in body (even pre-T, mind over matter is working here. Disclaimer: I take female level T due  to medical  hysterectomy, but I have for a few years now and no physical changes until recently.)   And I haven't even gotten to the transition and out stages of this yet. 

So, to the OP, I've had moments of total panic with this revelation.  The hardest part is finding who I am.  My litmus test is, do I feel relaxed or anxious internally even if I'm not comfortable breaking the norm?  I'm still looking for a large part of me that I stuffed in a safe box before I even started kindergarten, but am having an easier time recognizing what makes me less anxious,  more content, and more balanced. 

So, OP, best of luck to you on figuring this out! You are not alone in your confusion and unrest!  For me, looking back, while not every day is better, every week has been an improvement in my peace of mind.

Chris
Title: Re: i don't know if i could ever see myself a real man
Post by: Athena on October 15, 2014, 10:47:10 AM
I must admit I was getting ready to write a long post trying to be supportive without coming across as insensitive and I realized most of what I was trying to say could be summed up in 2 words. To expand a little bit on what I meant. Find out what makes you happiest, in the end that is who you were meant to be. If what makes you happy changes day to day that is also who you were meant to be.
Title: Re: i don't know if i could ever see myself a real man
Post by: JourneyFromConfusion on October 15, 2014, 12:46:38 PM
I unfortunately understand how you feel. I've been struggling with this myself, even before going on T. I constantly feel like I'm damned either way. My parts won't be functioning like a cis male's, yet I feel ridiculously uncomfortable being in female spaces, even those with butch lesbians because, honestly, I don't think I've ever seen myself as female. It sucks to be a part of this straddling fence. Some people can easily say "It doesn't matter about chromosomes, defects happen and I know who I am", and I honestly wish I could too, but when you're in a world (especially in an ethnic culture) that's constantly putting you in 1 of 2 boxes and explaining why it must be so, it's hard to really understand our point of view. This is honestly something you (and I) will have to work out for ourselves. Something that's slowly been helping me is the fact that we only have 75ish years on this earth. Do we really want to be on our death beds wondering what life would've been like if we didn't have this cloud of discomfort toward our anatomy hanging over us? Will what others think truly matter when it's said and done? Science isn't all-knowing as can be shown from the changes from homosexuality being a mental disorder to a sexuality. More and more evidence is surfacing that despite physical anatomy, trans people have brains that resemble that of the sex they wish to transition to. Idk if this helps, but I truly hope you do find peace in the end.
Title: Re: i don't know if i could ever see myself a real man
Post by: captains on October 15, 2014, 07:35:33 PM
Watching this thread as someone very similar to the OP, with the same doubts and fears. I didn't know, I don't know, and I'm scared, I'm really scared. What is it that makes me think that I cross the line from boi to boy? Tomboy to man? Is it just because I want a dick? Because jesus christ, self, you ain't never gonna have one, not like you want.

I can't pretend I've always felt male. I'm glad there are some who have always known, b/c the daily grind of panic I feel over it is something I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. But at the same, shamefully, I'm sick-in-my-gut jealous. I hate this. I hate myself for this. I really believe that if I knew who I was, I'd reach out and go for it, embrace it, take charge of my life, but I don't have anything concrete. Just a lot of wasted time in front of a mirror.

I'm a girl. I know I'm a girl. I want to be a girl! Except, I'm just ... not. This is really, really weird, but I swear to god, some days (MOST DAYS) I feel closer to MTF than FTM. Like I'm a girl, or I'm trying to be, but all anyone can see is a man in a dress. It's a spooky feeling, because I'm an XX female without any masculine features ( :-\). I know that when people look at me while I'm dressed as female, they're not "seeing through my disguise," and they're not about to point and shout. But. God, I don't know. I don't know. When I bind and pack, I still feel like a transparent try-hard, just in the other direction. Too short, too babyfaced, unreal and all wrong.

I'm sorry you're struggling, thereishope. I hope the answers come soon.