having trouble coming to terms with it but my wife gave me an ultimatum its either her or Angie, she told me she could deal with my alter ego as she calls it every once in awhile but if I want to be angie full time then she can't stay with me because that is not who she married i am devastated as I know she is too, I just don't know what to do because I love her so much but I also don't think I can handle living anymore with not being myself, and just dressing up as how I feel inside every once in awhile isn't what I want I want to be me all the time this is so hard without her I have nobody! I can't keep stringing her along but I'm also not ready to lose her I don't know what to do :embarrassed: :'(
It is painful, but a majority of marriages do not hold together. Mine did not after 16 years and two children. Dysphoria though was making my life so bad that I started to become very resentful of her and my mind looked at her as a road block to happiness. I tried so many times to bury my feelings, but it always came back even stronger. I do know you do not want to hear stories like this, but it is life. One thing I did before the breakup was to be given the OK from her to be me at home, but love doesn't come with conditions. Just prepare yourself for the big decision because I fear from what you said that it will happen (decision time) and unacceptable answer to her will end things.
Hugs. Sadly there is much collateral damage to relationships when we transition. Some partners can cope, but many do not. It's an incredibly difficult position for both parties to be in. Perhaps you can suggest a joint counselling session, although I'm not sure how useful those can be if the SO has already made up their mind.
Would it be possible to change your 'alter ego' as she calls it, into your daily life you? Slowly by changing clothes, wearing different tops, etcetera? If you swap modes so to speak it might be more confronting for her so maybe you could make her get used to it?
I hope you will get trough this, take care ^^.
I don't think she will ever get used to it she has told me I could be Angie once in awhile but that's not what I want, I think if I had told her when we first got married it would be different but I don't think she would have married me then, right now she just keeps telling me she's been with me for almost half of her life and she feels like she's been robbed of half of her life, when we got together she didn't want anybody and I would not leave her alone because I was really attracted to her attracted to her I just wish that she could see that I've always been this person inside and I just can't hold it back anymore this is just so very hard I know most all of you know exactly what I'm going through that's why I'm here for any words of advice from people who understand what I am going through
Please watch placing any guilt trips on yourself as they will hinder your progress and cause even more anguish. She will go through the classic signs of grief because of the length of the relationship. Just be there if she so desires and educate her as well as you can on the subject of Dysphoria. I do wish you the best, but we will be here if your world collapses with a shoulder just made for tears. :)
Angie
As Jessica says if ultimatums are being given and you know what you need to do then the prognosis may not be great. However as Kirey and Grace say, something needs to change or the ultimatum will remain. Counselling can help. It shows the commitment that you both have, the level of desire that you both may have for your relationship to succeed or to change. This is important. At one level new understandings and possibilities may emerge which should be tried. At another level there may be the possibility of remaining friends should the marriage end.
Relationships are dynamic. Shared vision and mutual commitment are essential to their success. Compromises can sometimes be found when both parties are open to this possibility. Time helps. You have both invested a lot in your marriage and I wish you both the best possible outcome.
Safe travels
Aisla
Quote from: Jessica Merriman on October 21, 2014, 03:50:51 PM
Please watch placing any guilt trips on yourself as they will hinder your progress and cause even more anguish. She will go through the classic signs of grief because of the length of the relationship. Just be there if she so desires and educate her as well as you can on the subject of Dysphoria. I do wish you the best, but we will be here if your world collapses with a shoulder just made for tears. :)
Yep. I definitely agree. No matter how bad it hurts, sometimes we need to leave the old life behind to start anew. What is sad is that in my case a lot of what my ex fell in love with was the real me. She just didn't have a clue I was a woman instead of a man. She just thought I was the perfect man. Sensitive, caring, emotional and on and on. ::)
Jessica is right though. And I just have to add that before you can be true to anyone else, you have to be true to yourself or all you are going to be is miserable and bitter which will make those around you miserable too. They may even come to actually resent you or hate you for it. But you have to do what you feel is right.
I want to add something to it though. I am not sure when you told her, or how long it has been since you told her. But even if it is constantly on your mind I do think you are into this together with her. Although of course you want to develop and be you. You could also have done this 5 years ago, or in 3 years ahead of now. Don't rush it. Rushing it will just make people panic while when you would be giving it time, it could lead to eventually having someone beside you.
The chance will be big the two of you will part, honestly. Someone falls in love with your mind but also your appearance and your sex. But by not rushing it you do risk having to wait longer, but you also give your wife the chance to get used to it, to let it sink in and hopefully at least have someone supporting you or at least staying by your side eventually.
Hugs, Angie. I've been there. I thought it was the end of everything, but I'm actually pretty happy in my life as a single girl.
You have the strength inside you to get through this.
Angie, hugs.
I know that emotions were very high and the divorce was mentioned a lot when I fist came out. We are still together although as my transition progresses I wonder if the threats are real or a lashing out to something "new". I am taking my time and giving time for people to adjust.
I hope things get better between you and your wife.
Talked with her more last night and things went well, I think she is just hoping I will change my mind. I feel bad for her but at the same time better that I'm opening up more to her! She is willing to go to counselling but in the long run I'm not sure if it's going to make a difference! Don't know if we are just prolonging the inevitable or if she might come around? Did talk about the first steps I want to take, told her I want to start with hair removal and getting my ears pierced, also that I was looking into hormone treatment, she had many questions and in the end ddidn't fight with me about it for the first time but I think until I do any of this, she will be fine. It's when the first steps come that shot will hit the fan! B bay next Tuesday and I am going to try to start electrolysis and maybe get my ears pierced, that will be the first test of how she reacts! I just hope we can figure out soon if she can go through this because I'm over fighting about it and ready to start becoming me!
Here is what you can expect.
Denial
Anger
Bargaining
Depression
Acceptance
I have already dealt with all of those in the last two days and they just keep coming today she doesn't understand any of it and she told me if I have to do this when she's ready to leave, I just told her if that's what she needs to do I understand and I will help her get back to home, told her that that might be the best thing for us right now so we can both figure out if this is going to work out in our lives are not she said she's afraid if she does that then it's just going to be over I just said I love you with all my heart and you have to make up your decision and whatever you decide I will still love you always but this is what I need to do. when does it start to get better? because right now I know this is what I want inside but at the same time I am torn apart and heartbroken because I love her so much and I just wish she could understand
I'll be painfully honest. An incredibly small percentage of us end up staying with our spouse. As you said, it's difficult on your wife, and it was much the same for my JoAnn. It took two years for us to accept becoming "Friends". And for a short time now we've even come to terms with being nothing more than roomates in the house my wife will soon fully own. However, most wives never even remain our friends, and as couples we have to realize that before healing the wounds. JoAnn and I understand our separate lives now, and we aren't afraid to talk about what we're planning.
I personally know one couple in Michigan who stayed married, but as tremendously loving friends. While I know two couples that found transition brought them closer, and allowed them to expand their life experience here here in the SF Bay Area. But those are the only three couples I know who stayed together, and that's from more than a hundred previously married (or coupled) transwomen and men that I know and occasionally talk with.
No, the odds of staying together aren't good, but that doesn't mean for you to give up on marriage and run. You could be part of that small percent of couples that finds a peaceful and loving reationship. As many of us have said before, "Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst." It's good advice, even if it's a terrible thing to hear.
Katherine
A great spouse is worth fighting to keep. Communicating is key but not too much. Also, you might also want to go together to a counselor with experience in this area. This sort of change is very hard on relationships for sure but there are things you can do that give it a chance to work. It sounds like you are already on the right path and I wish you luck.
So my wife is going home for a while in 2 weeks not sure what to think of all this, It's getting real very very fast! She needs time to think and take care of her own problems I just wish there was another way, I feel we both need this but I'm scared that it will be the end of us even though she said no matter what happens well always be best friends I am lost! I wish there was a way to have both! But she is not attracted to women and I can't be happy any more without being who I am on the inside on the outside too
Hi Angie, you are NOT alone in these worries, trust me!
I'm in a similar situation, I've come out as questioning to my wife and have explained that I've been told I have Gender Dysphoria by a Gender Therapist. My Wife is very understanding and knowledgeable about the whole thing, but has said she'd have to leave me if I went through with it as she couldn't deal with the whole scenario (the awkward situations etc).
I'm panicking so much now and when ever she asks me whether I feel the need to dress up I dodge around the question, and when ever she asks whether I feel I want to do it all the time, I just answer that I don't know. When inside I feel I'm screaming "Yes! So much!"
I keep feeling anxious when I'm in boy mode and just want that all to end, but at the same time, I do still want to have kids and don't want to lose my wife :(
I've been told the stages of grief and am really hoping she becomes more accepting before I show my real feelings about the whole situation. But I feel I'm just digging myself into a rut.
Claire
Quote from: Jess42 on October 21, 2014, 03:58:43 PM
What is sad is that in my case a lot of what my ex fell in love with was the real me. She just didn't have a clue I was a woman instead of a man. She just thought I was the perfect man. Sensitive, caring, emotional and on and on. ::)
Yep, same here. And after I came out as trans and pointed this out she denied it ::) :-X
If you do split its very hard but there is life after the split. My wife of 27 years walked out the door about a year ago and we managed to stay friendly. She has found a guy and has moved on and I wish her well. Perhaps the same will hold true for you too if the worst happens.
You are in a safe place here among friends whenever you need someone to talk too. Many of us have been down this same same road.
thanks so much for all the good advice and support that everybody here is giving me it means so much to me, I feel as though even though I'm losing my life I am being reborn at the same time
Angie,
I know what you're going through. I'm going through some of the same myself. My wife has begun sleeping separately and basically mentally and verbally abuses me. She's already talking about us selling the house and going our separate ways. If it weren't for me being happy to come out as my real self I'd be completely devastated.
Sometimes it's necessary to let someone go... because you love them that much and want what is best for them. Just as we want them to be understanding of our needs, so do we need to be understanding of theirs. It is not fair to expect them to stay if they aren't interested in a relationship with a woman. She can't just flip a switch on her sexuality.
Cherish the time you had together, if she says that the time you spent together was a waste then emphatically refute that. She's just speaking from a hurt position. A loving marriage through good times and bad is never a waste. Express an understanding of her pain but make sure she knows that those years together were very real, the love and companionship was real.
You walked a path together and made many wonderful memories together. Perhaps you can stay friends through this, but it sounds as though here is where your paths diverge. You must follow the path you feel you must go on and she must follow hers.
It is a painful separation, but there is nothing wrong with it. It happens to couples all the time. When you truly love and understand each other then you accept the necessity of it because it is what each of you needs in order to be happy. Life will go on for each of you, this is just the close of a beautiful chapter and the beginning of another.
Angie I'm in the same boat...
I've been married for 20 years and finally came out to my wife back in March. She knows that I need to transition and has told me that she'll leave if I do.
So far we're taking this one step at a time, which is very hard for me. I started beard and chest hair removal, which she's ok with. She's also come with me to counseling.
She just can't accept my starting HRT yet, and I'm not sure if she ever will.
I'm hoping to work this out together, time will tell.
It is so hard what you've done Angie, but I think we all know it's one of the hardest things any person can do in life. And unfortunately there will be some lost relationships and damage along the way. I think the best we can do is just try to minimise the damage, but some things we won't have control over.
I always try to think about the other persons perspective, I place myself in their shoes. Did my partner at the time of meeting me ever think she was with a girl, no, and she made that clear when I started transition. And I understand that completely, she said she's not a Lesbian and I accept that.
I prepared myself to lose people in my life, and it's kind of allowed me to somewhat seperate myself from any attachment. It's hard, but at the same time it makes things easier. I know there'll be other people in my life, and so too will amazing people enter your life Angie.
Hugs,
Bree
After 25 years of marriage, recently coming out that I am going to begin the steps to facilitate transition and change, my wife is going to take a "let's wait and see how this all pans out" attitude.
We have a good relationship, grown kids, so it is really about her wrapping her mind around the two concepts of "I thought I knew the man I have always been with and trusted", and, "I am heterosexual and I would never think that I would want to be with another woman".
This, for us is going to be a process. Obviously in my mid-fifties, HRT and it's effects are probably going to be slower and less obvious initially, and I will continue to present as male for a while until we both mutually adjust to change (obviously probably longer than I would like for the sake of our relationship). I am hoping she will like the possible psychological changes before she will ever need to accept the physical change (given that it will be a slow change and that she will be like me in that we don't notice nearly as much with our day to day change). Then, I hope, I pray that she will one day say let's move forward in your presentation, you really are no longer the man I married, but actually still the great supporting and nurturing partner.
But, it is a very fluid work in progress, and with any relationship there will be an expectation to yield together.
I'm not in the same situation but I think he terms of your marriage have changed. She has to be true to herself and may not be able to live with another woman. It's a new reality she probably didn't sign up for, just as you being female is not something you probably expected.
You have to be true to yourself and She has to be too.
Quote from: Eva Marie on October 22, 2014, 07:14:33 PM
Yep, same here. And after I came out as trans and pointed this out she denied it ::) :-X
If you do split its very hard but there is life after the split. My wife of 27 years walked out the door about a year ago and we managed to stay friendly. She has found a guy and has moved on and I wish her well. Perhaps the same will hold true for you too if the worst happens.
You are in a safe place here among friends whenever you need someone to talk too. Many of us have been down this same same road.
I always find this extremely interesting. So many of us that have known for a long time and have hid it in some cases really good and in other not so much but still more on the female side at least psychologically and emotionally. For me it is so intertwined into my real personality that it is really useless to even try anymore. Even trying to be a guy, still even, it is so much over the top and more like a character than a real person. When I do act this way I wonder just how many people actually buy it. I wouldn't. But it is kind of ironic that a lot of cis women's ideal guys are actually transgendered. Or some of the characteristics they look for seem to point that way. Emotional anyway.
Angie I'm going through a similar situation myself but I'm taking a bit slower approach. I told my wife who I am and she gave an ultimatum as well but we talked on finding a way to allow me to feel more feminine yet being male enough for her. Since this started she has begun to allow me to wear makeup around the house and grow my hair out. I may be deluding myself but this may be a way of still keeping things going. It all depends on if both of you are willing to compromise till your both happy
I was there too :( We tried all we could and it came down to my ex wife not being able to support me. She understood after all the years of seeing me dress and not dress what a struggle I was having and I think inside she really would have liked to stay but I just wasn't the kind of woman she could even be friends with. She told me this towards the end. All her friends were like her. They never dressed or acted in really feminine ways and there was me trying to be as girly as I could. I think it annoyed her.
Sometimes when a situation gets to a point where opinions and thoughts are so different a break is the best way. I had a job that took me away from home regularly and after a 2 week trip when she had thinking time that was it done. I hope that your wife realises that she loves you more than any concept of your gender and that she misses you so much she can come home with some idea of how to help you. I know there is an urge to get on with things but Counselling is the definite first step so she has a way to have her views considered. That will help her feel better. For your wife to stay she has to feel that her feelings are being considered while obviously you have things to do the timing of them will be vital
Good Luck
Sorcha ;D
Angie, hugs
I realized my wife did not bargain for a MTF trans-woman spouse so I said as much and asked her to pick from 6 choices:
1) I will leave this one blank,
2) Divorce,
3) Open Marriage,
4) Separate,
5) live as friends.
6) stay married
If she choses #1 I would leave on my own and start no-fault 90 day divorce in PA.
I told her all the choices were always on the table.
She does not want what is happening and to what extent she can adapt I do not know. To what extent I can hold back I do not know. I am starting to let go to trying to make the future and present something it is not and allow what is to happen, happen, and realize things never stay the same and our attempt to mold events makes me unhappy. This does not mean it does not hurt but I know it is how things are.
Quote from: Cynthia Michelle on October 24, 2014, 10:51:31 PM
I realized my wife did not bargain for a MTF trans-woman spouse so I said as much and asked her to pick from 6 choices:
1) I will leave this one blank,
2) Divorce,
3) Open Marriage,
4) Separate,
5) live as friends.
6) stay married
I like your list so far mine has chosen 6 but only time will tell and may need to bring it out again if more doesn't change for me
I don't know how any of us would really be surprised at a wife/girlfriend not being ok with this. Be who you are. If you're a lesbian, good luck. Lesbianism doesn't make sense to me as a trans woman, but it is what it is. I didn't have any problem pulling "chicks" as a guy, but most women ended up being nasty with me because I was too nice. Pfffffffffftttttt!
In my opinion women marry men because they are that. I'd say that VAST majority of women are turned off, and I don't blame them.
Angie, good luck to you. Be happy because we only live once.
After I dropped the T-Bomb on my wife 6 years ago I heard a lot of the "I did not marry a woman..." meme. I had no clear vision of what route I was planning on taking. In fact I still don't. She knew of my GD from about day 1 some 30 years ago. Like you, she tolerated and accepted, my need to occasionally dress around the house. Over the course of 30 years my wife also fell victim to the slow changes from me being turned into a lifeless, soulless machine with no hopes, wishes, and dreams.
I haven't heard it for a while now. Thanks to me finally taking on for real the trans beast I am becomming a for real person. A person she loves even more to be around. A person she has learned to trust again. A person she knows that truely loves her and is not looking for her to stay married "Just so I wouldn't be lonely", or just plain guilt. She can see a future together with me living as a woman either part or full time.
We've also had a few difficult discussions along the way. Much along the lines of Cynthia's list. One thing for sure we both feel exactly the same on is placing the other's happiness in front of our own and never wanting to stand between the other's and their happiness. The details we sort out as we feel our way through the darkness.
I feel for you, i have just lost my wife. And those who do stay are angels.
Try to explain to her more, and see if she can support you if not as a wife, but as a friend. That way she will still be in your life. She may feel left out of this chapter of your life and that is what's hurting her. Ask if she wants to start going to counselling with you. But do not push her away. Give her space and time. If she stills want a divorce, then do not get angry or do anything stupid, you will only make things worst.
She may say things to hurt your feelings, but do not get upset and argue, you are better than that.
My wife, stopped talking to me when i came out, and then got angry, and then just went off and started dating. It upset me, but i did not show it. I stand by my decision, because i know going back would be the death of me. And if you really feel the same, and need to open up and be your true self, then you should, and no matter how hard life will get on your journey, at the end it will be worth it, and life will be so much better.
Hugs to you, and hope you will be ok.
Andrea