I am curious how many people have pulled into this concept, this is something I originally developed after reading an Ativan post about finding gender by silencing everything around you and looking deep within yourself.
I started looking at gender as triune, physical, social and spiritual or deep core, the core being who I am deep within, that place so far inside that it looks at all around it and recognizes layers of gender, of identification, social pressures, stuff like that.
The core is also deep values, the soul, the heart, the motives. it is the truth seeker and teller, the place that knows the truth of who I am and watches everything around me comparing it to that truth.
Lately, just before I had my full acceptance moment that I am still processing in that core, Lately I had an experience where the components of self quietly decided to melt into my core and instead of separation it became merged into the wholeness, the diamond heart of me, if that is not to presumptuous, but I believe it nonetheless.
So, how about you. Do you believe you have a core gender, a place that transends presentations, dressing and comfort zones, a deep place inside you that sees your totality as who you are, that you can rely on and pull back to when the going is tough, that is rock stable and knows your truth?
How did you find your core?
Did you find one? Do you believe you have one?
Can you describe your core here? Mine used to be non gendered, observing, somewhat distanced, now it is passionate, still observing but fully involved, and it is transgendered. Not male, not female, many faceted, a nonbinary transgendered mtf with multiple presentations and social capabilities and realities. All real, that is nonbinary.
But can you describe your core? Has it changed? Are you looking for it?
I think I found something profoundly real, that pierces deception and presentation and dysphoria and finds something far more powerful, far more reaching than lipstick and boobs and no boobs and binders and other things we use. Far more than externals, far more powerful, a driving force of trans in our lives, each totally unique and personal, each composed of our totality and life experience, each more valuable than can be calculated. A trans reality, a foundation where we can build presentation and social balance and physical joy from. A diamond.
Thoughts about core genders my dear ones?
We'll probably get some mtf and ftm involvement on this one, lets all be respectful regardless of what your core or presentations may be or if you are nb or not nb. No criticizing others here please. Don't let it scare you off thread either. The core is not a nonbinary thing only, we all have our core. It is who we are. But it is key to my nonbinary experience, a non binary born concept, arguably.
Love to all
Blessings from Satinjoy
I have to "ponder" this for a while in my brain.???
More later.
My core is feminine, totally,this was very evident since my late teens but not accepted because no other people like me existed to my knowledge.Ignorance lead me to an "adapt and survive" mentality and this was my life till meltdown at 63. Then Susans was discovered and my life took on new meaning that of total acceptance and presentation even though a very borderline feminine appearance was achieved it was mine. After swinging to the far feminine side hrt and therapy brought me back to the realization that the masculine side was an important part of me also. We bonded into one, each accepting the other and now living in true harmony like a loving husband and wife.The feminine part drives the emotions and presentation and appreciates the wisdom and knowledge gained from 63 years of masculine experience. This leaves me as NB, never really masculine never really feminine but totally a blend of the best of both sides and one very HAPPY woman who only has one step left to make the body and core match as close as possible. Patty
Life is too short. Just live like you want to without driving yourself crazy.
I am female, period. Nothing else needs to be said.
I am genderless at the core... but part of me has been thinking lately, perhaps I do not have a core. Just energies of feminine, masculine and neutral swirling together, surrounding what could have been a core.
I have a darkness where my core used to exist, a darkness so deep that if I let it consume myself, all emotions and thoughts will fade into the background...everything become white noise. It gives me peace and serenity to observe my true nature, my perception of myself without any nagging sensations of shame, guilt and fear tugging at my mind. This reminds me to let myself go tonight before I fall asleep, that quiet place inside my mind allows me to find my peace where my fears of society will not get to me. One day, I will break free... the time will come, I just need to hide in my shell for the time being and prepare until I am ready to give zero hoots about what anyone or society thinks.
I am nothing, yet the energies that surround me are the everything that give me the purpose of who I am today... I am a feminine child who is boy-like yet sexless in physical appearance, androgynous that allows me to float about in freedom in regards to gender expression, unrestrained and having endless possibilities to explore. The darkness gives me light, the silence gives me strength, the sexless identity gives my life meaning and purpose to strive forward in order to align my body with my mind.
Everyone here at Susans, just witnessing the discussion everyday, it gives me strength - it inspires me. Thank you all.
How do some of you enjoy life spending all your time thinking of this stuff? Is it that important to label yourselves? If I thought about who or what I was all day I would be in a padded room. Forget the core and go watch some birds or kittens playing. That's life! :)
It's not about labels. For me, it's about finding out who I am.
I thought I found myself once as a man and thought I was set for life. Little did I know how wrong I was.
Boy. Girl. Woman. Man.
I cannot be defined by these terms. If you can, more power to you. I, on the other hand, enjoy expressing myself in more depth.
Quote from: EchelonHunt on October 24, 2014, 12:33:11 PM
For me, it's about finding out who I am.
You are YOU quite simply! You are unique and special. My therapy bill is in the mail and I do accept Visa! ;D
Cookies anyone? :)
Quote from: Satinjoy on October 24, 2014, 09:08:08 AM
How did you find your core?
I did a thought experiment. I asked myself two questions:
1. How would I feel if I never could be male again. Never hang with males as one of them, never be seen as even a little bit male, never act like a male, etc.
Answer: It would be strange since I spent my entire 50 years as one, but I think I could get used to it.
2. How would I feel if I could never be female, never hang with females as one of them, never be seen as even a little bit female, never act like a female, etc.
Answer: It would feel like a piece of me had been cut out.
It was then that I knew I was female at the core and that the male parts of my identity are grafted on from decades of living as one.
Good luck Satinjoy. I hope this helps.
Quote from: Jessica Merriman on October 24, 2014, 12:35:39 PM
You are YOU quite simply! You are unique and special.
If you had told me this when I was eighteen, I would have tilted my head to one side and ask you, "Who am I? How do you know I am unique and special? Because I exist?" Not because I am self-deprecating but because I simply do not know myself.
I am still discovering something new about myself everyday. Unique and special? Yes, everyone is in their own way. My way? I would like to find out. I take joy in introspecting myself and building my knowledge even further than before. Having a heightened self-awareness of one's identity and self is important, I believe.
Quote from: Jessica Merriman on October 24, 2014, 12:35:39 PM
Cookies anyone? :)
Cookies? Why, yes please. *O nom nom noms on cookie*
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,150530.msg1251389.html#msg1251389
because i don't see much point in repeating myself.
jessica
some people actually find philosophy interesting.
i live to learn, i feel dead when i can't learn or help others learn.
it is great that you are able to live without questioning every single little thing. it really does make life easier.
but i never asked for an easy life, and even if i were given the choice, i'd still choose to just be me, a person who seeks truth in everything.
one of my nicest realizations was of how the grass is green because it eats light.
being able to imagine that and all kinds of other things, is what gives my life meabing outside getting food on my daughter's table.
Quote from: Taka on October 24, 2014, 01:42:49 PM
some people actually find philosophy interesting.
I do too in moderation. It is when it becomes obsession it is a problem.
Life without too many mysteries is just not that exciting to me personally. I love the discoveries that are more spontaneous like a child.
I am putting no one down, I just feel like for some it is the driving force in their lives which can actually make things worse, nothing else. :)
Our entire existences are created by a linguistic framework of labels, so yes Jessica, labels are hella important.
Quote from: Dread_Faery on October 24, 2014, 01:55:56 PM
Our entire existences are created by a linguistic framework of labels, so yes Jessica, labels are hella important.
I am not a label, I am Jessica a unique human among many! :)
I take that back. I label myself blonde!! ;D
thinking is a dangerous sport to do, that's true.
but sometimes, it also helps. depends on how you do it...
i learned to take a break when i'm not getting anywhere.
just being is enough.
but with the childhood i've had, trans really wasn't the most difficult thing i've had to deal with, and much of my thinking has been in order tolearn not only who i really am but also to just be. watching children and butterflies was never encouraged in my home, neither was listening to metal. there were so many rules that my real self, almost every aspect of it, drowned completely.
without thinking, i could not have convinced myself that it's worth living through each day simply because them there will still be a chance to see happiness one day. i would have committed suicide in grade school if not for thinking, because the person i am was never valued by anyone, and my existence truly was miserable.
i won't say more about childhood though. it's way too dark, and i have already come to terms with myself about it. only a little bit of grief is left, the bitterness and blame are gone, and my darkness is again one where i can find peace.
My point is that language is merely a system of labels that we have arbitrarily applied to the world around us in order to make sense of it.
I think therefore I am, if I could not recognise and label myself as I, would I even exist?
Quote from: Dread_Faery on October 24, 2014, 02:10:36 PM
I think therefore I am, if I could not recognise and label myself as I, would I even exist?
Do you get a lot of headaches? ;D
I've done this kind of soul searching for a long time, its probably why I was so unhappy before, and feel so liberated now. Feeling like I do at my deepest core, yet unknowingly continuing to see myself as CIS on the outside caused great conflict within myself.. Even coming here to Susans and all of you was a conflict at first.. It was like my inner core's force was dragging me kicking and screaming behind it, to where it needed to be, so the rest of me could learn and catch up. Looking back in hindsight, it makes so much sense now.
But I don't use gender terms or words to myself when I dive down that deep within myself. I don't use any words at all.? My inner core is much more a place of feelings, almost vivid enough to be thought of as deep dark colors, rather than any sort of words. My core is always full of tears of every kind, sadness, happiness, longings, loves and angers and hate all simmering together, its the place of only the most powerful essence of my being.
I don't really understand how to describe my core gender.? I don't think of it in those terms, because in my core being there are none of those socially constructed parameters to judge myself by.? I'm simply a life force, a being of powerful feelings and rich colors or deep groaning sounds churning and mixing slowly. That's about as close a description as I've ever told anyone..
My thought on this.?
Only that if I can live the outer parts of my life true to my core values, I'm happier, and life's energy flows through me much easier than when I'm trying to be someone I'm not meant to be.. The climax of that being when or if you can become perfectly aligned with your core in everything you do, life becomes almost effortless or spiritual in nature.
I admit I'm very far from that though..
Peace & love.
Quote from: Mark3 on October 24, 2014, 02:23:11 PM
I've done this kind of soul searching for a long time, its probably why I was so unhappy before, and feel so liberated now. Feeling like I do at my deepest core, yet unknowingly continuing to see myself as CIS on the outside caused great conflict within myself.. Even coming here to Susans and all of you was a conflict at first.. It was like my inner core's force was dragging me kicking and screaming behind it, to where it needed to be, so the rest of me could learn and catch up. Looking back in hindsight, it makes so much sense now.
But I don't use gender terms or words to myself when I dive down that deep within myself. I don't use any words at all.? My inner core is much more a place of feelings, almost vivid enough to be thought of as deep dark colors, rather than any sort of words. My core is always full of tears of every kind, sadness, happiness, longings, loves and angers and hate all simmering together, its the place of only the most powerful essence of my being.
I don't really understand how to describe my core gender.? I don't think of it in those terms, because in my core being there are none of those socially constructed parameters to judge myself by.? I'm simply a life force, a being of powerful feelings and rich colors or deep groaning sounds churning and mixing slowly. That's about as close a description as I've ever told anyone..
My thought on this.?
Only that if I can live the outer parts of my life true to my core values, I'm happier, and life's energy flows through me much easier than when I'm trying to be someone I'm not meant to be.. The climax of that being when or if you can become perfectly aligned with your core in everything you do, life becomes almost effortless or spiritual in nature.
I admit I'm very far from that though..
Peace & love.
Brilliant! +1 :)
Quote from: Dread_Faery on October 24, 2014, 02:10:36 PM
My point is that language is merely a system of labels that we have arbitrarily applied to the world around us in order to make sense of it.
I think therefore I am, if I could not recognise and label myself as I, would I even exist?
"i" would still exist even if i was lobotomized just not in the same state , iv been on antipsychotic for a fews month and had difficulties feeling and thinking yet "i" was still existing
Jessica, to practically repeat what Taka said - some of us are naturally inquisitive. I personally have an IQ of about 135ish, and I'm at my happiest when I'm asking questions and learning new things, whether it be about the world around me, or about myself. People who tell me to stop asking questions often find themselves getting slapped across the face with a wet trout as I laugh, dance away and continue to wilfully ignore their silly request :laugh: (and typically start asking
*MORE* questions just to spite them :P yeh, I don't respond well to people
*TELLING* me to do things lol (asking is fine, but
telling me will send me flying in exactly the opposite direction)).
To me, curiosity is exactly what's made the human race what it is today. We'd all still be living in caves if someone hadn't asked
"hay, what happens when I rub these two sticks together?" ;) I love asking questions. I love finding out new things. I love then going on to ask more questions about the new things I've just found out. Will I ever be satisfied? I bloody well hope not lmao! :laugh:
Quote from: suzifrommd on October 24, 2014, 12:41:48 PM
I did a thought experiment. I asked myself two questions:
...
I did the exact same experiment myself! :D
♥︎*Hugs*♥︎These were my answers:
Quote from: suzifrommd on October 24, 2014, 12:41:48 PM
1. How would I feel if I never could be male again. Never hang with males as one of them, never be seen as even a little bit male, never act like a male, etc.
I'd miss some of my old male friends, but I know I'd make some great female friends too. I've never had any trouble hanging out with girls even as a guy (in fact at uni I was considered practically "one of the girls" because all my friends I hung out with regularly were female lol :P ). It'd be different to not act male in any way, but I'd forget about it after a few months. I might miss one or two of my traditionally masculine traits a little, but again nothing I couldn't get over fairly easily. I've never really had any masculine past times like sports or anything, unless you count science and technology, but more and more women are getting involved in that these days anyway, so I don't know if that'd count or not. I would be kinda p***ed off if Goth, Cyberpunk, or Steampunk etc was considered "too masculine" for me to wear though lol. Even then in the grand scheme of things, it'd be a minor sacrifice.
Quote from: suzifrommd on October 24, 2014, 12:41:48 PM
2. How would I feel if I could never be female, never hang with females as one of them, never be seen as even a little bit female, never act like a female, etc.
When I first did this experiment myself, I tried for several hours to tell my brain "you can't transition. You'll never be able to transition. It's not possible for you to transition. You'll have to be a man your whole life and there's nothing you will ever be able to do to change that. You will
*NEVER* be female". It took a while to really
*believe* in my self-talk, but when I finally did - just for a split second - do you know how I felt?
It was like the entire bottom of my world just fell out. Everything was empty and void. I actually literally shivered just now simply for thinking about it as I wrote that.. yeh, that life would be just an empty shell of a human being walking around and existing, but never living. You may as well replace me with a machine for all the soul I'd have left. I may still be on this planet in body, but I certainly wouldn't be here in spirit anymore.
tl;dr version? I'm just glad the option to transition is there. 'Nuff said ;)
♥︎*Hugs*♥︎
Quote from: Taka on October 24, 2014, 02:06:01 PM
thinking is a dangerous sport to do, that's true.
but sometimes, it also helps. depends on how you do it...
i learned to take a break when i'm not getting anywhere.
just being is enough... and much of my thinking has been in order to learn not only who i really am but also to just be.... there were so many rules that my real self, almost every aspect of it, drowned completely.
without thinking. ... and my darkness is again one where i can find peace.
SJ
Thank you for this thread. Now, while noting Jessica's truth, that you can over complicate and over think things, my thoughts on finding my core, overlay your view and that of Taka.
Perhaps because I have found meditation so powerful my sense is that my core, while non gendered, exists to guide, centre and help identify truth. It is not dark and forbidding, but can be dark, safe and comforting, sometimes I end up visualising a purple lotus blossom or a moon, but it always represents truth, clarity, strength etc
At my core is the watcher. It does not invest in fear, anger etc, it just observes. When I start meditation it takes a while to quiet my mind and its frenzied thoughts. With my ego running amok it is often hard to get clarity. But as breathing slows, and I let my thoughts scud like clouds across my mind scape, I find quiet. I connect with my core, and with others. I never really come away with great flashes of insight or self realisation but I always come away refreshed and am becoming more present, authentic and less ego damaged or ego driven..
From this space how I serve and how I love is informed and empowered. This means that I find that I am more available, more present and more connected. I am less concerned with how I present, with how I think or with how I distract myself with my ego. At this point I really don't have a sense as to my gender, it doesn't exist and is therefore irrelevant. What is important is living and experiencing my truth and authenticity.
So long way round, I find my core through meditation. It can be visualised but while I don't always find a colour I do find an awareness, a spirit, the watcher, the universal conscious perhaps ... either way I find myself more present, less ego driven and more authentic. I dont attribute or find gender at my core, I just am.
Hope this makes sense. My journey is therefore perhaps more of learning, evolution and growth rather than effecting a particular transition.
Safe travels
Aisla
the watcher could be considered feminine gendered in comparison to effecting a transition
Quote from: Sosophia on October 24, 2014, 05:13:56 PM
the watcher could be considered feminine gendered in comparison to effecting a transition
Very true, but then I wonder ... I wonder whether the watcher is really concerned with ego driven physical interaction and thoughts rather than the core driven spiritual interaction ... Argh!!! Too many thoughts. Breathe. ... Look for the space between the breaths .... No gender.... My core just is ...... Or is it? F,M, NB Orr just me ?? Breathe .... Breathe. Recentre.....
Safe travels
Aisla
maybe that ego driven physical interaction is a form of spiritual interaction ? i like to see this this way at times , but its just me
Quote from: Sosophia on October 24, 2014, 05:31:03 PM
maybe that ego driven physical interaction is a form of spiritual interaction ? i like to see this this way at times , but its just me
Loving this thread :)
This is an intriguing perspective and possibly true, perhaps more spiritual when powered from the core and not by the ego. Perhaps you could argue that any action is an expression, even if unthinking, or some reflection (whether authentic or flawed), of the spirit or core.
Safe travels
Aisla
i just am.
and then sometimes i'm gender as well.
but i am gender only when interacting with people, or thinking about interacting.
when i am just me and nothing else, the sense of gender disappears.
what is left is at times a feeling of my body being wrong. but the feeling is physical, like a tumor has grown somwqjere, or i have drunk an odd potion that messes up how i feel my emotions.
a distorted way of physical being, but without a sense of gender.
until i think of how having the right parts would make sexual encounters easier.
but that is again doing more than just being, it is an interaction with people. i'd never bother about what parts a cat sees me with.
so i get a feeling that gender identity is something created in the space between my self and other people. it holds importance how my own species sees me, would be different if there were only me, with no chance of atteaction one way or the other.
Quote from: Sosophia on October 24, 2014, 05:31:03 PM
maybe that ego driven physical interaction is a form of spiritual interaction ? i like to see this this way at times , but its just me
and i m sorry i shouldt have put this here i went trough the same sort of anxiety and i tough that its because of my process for justification that i m doing the right thing with transition or claiming that i m a woman or others of the kind that theses sort of other "concept" of feminine or masculine makes go trough as if to take it in consideration but that was for me and feeling that cis peoples are lucky to not have such a process in there
Quote from: Taka on October 24, 2014, 05:36:49 PM
i just am.
and then sometimes i'm gender as well.
but i am gender only when interacting with people, or thinking about interacting.
when i am just me and nothing else, the sense of gender disappears ....?
so i get a feeling that gender identity is something created in the space between my self and other people. it holds importance how my own species sees me, would be different if there were only me, with no chance of atteaction one way or the other.
Taka
If at the core there is no gender (and this is what I experience) and gender only arises socially ie in the space between the self and others then is this the brain, the ego or the core at work? I think that this is important because if it is purely the ego then gender is more akin to a social construct Perhaps this is a legitimate view but my dysphoria demands and is only addressed by low dose hrt, so as I experience gender there is a biological element at work which may have been in turn influenced or caused during my development.
Time to stop now. I have given myself a head ache, the sun is shining and bird song is calling me to the garden.
Safe travels
Aisla
Genre is a social construct. But it's constructed out of internal and external cues, including the interaction between your physical reality and your subconscious expectation of your physical reality. Well that's my thoughts on it.
Sosophis
No need to apologise. The great thing about this is that the only truth, the only paradigm that matters is the one that appeals, works and makes sense to you. A feminine centre or core, why not? It is a beautiful thought and a very powerful thought for binary folk!
What is truth and what is meaning apart from that which we endow it?
Safe travels
Ps. I am not sure that cis folk are particularly lucky. Membership of the dominant group when you are unlikely to be a perfect fit may not that great a deal. Knowing that as trans you need to understand and accept your identity is to me preferable to being cis and blindly accepting the strictures of cis membership.
Quote from: Dread_Faery on October 24, 2014, 05:57:24 PM
Genre is a social construct. But it's constructed out of internal and external cues, including the interaction between your physical reality and your subconscious expectation of your physical reality. Well that's my thoughts on it.
DF
Certainly agree it is partly a social construct but suggest that it is in bio/psycho/social in origin... But as internal and external cues have their foundation in social interaction, biology and the psyche, your synthesis also fits.
Now where did I put those head ache pills?
Safe travels
Sisal
for me its more like they have the body producing on its own the right chemicals and having the right reproductive system and not having to struggle with the society and peoples to get some of that , i think cis peoples can understand and accept themselves ,maybe not a lot of them, do it , but it seems much more peacefull than to have to get my body parts and chemicals , and to still pass trough the bias in the unconscious or conscious of somes others cis peoles that i cant be considered a girl/woman cause i was born with a something else
Quote from: Sosophia on October 24, 2014, 06:20:23 PM
for me its more like they have the body producing on its own the right chemicals and having the right reproductive system and not having to struggle with the society and peoples to get some of that , i think cis peoples can understand and accept themselves ,maybe not a lot of them, do it , but it seems much more peacefull than to have to get my body parts and chemicals , and to still pass trough the bias in the unconscious or conscious of somes others cis peoles that i cant be considered a girl/woman cause i was born with a something else
Sosophia
I know what you are saying and understand this. Being trans does involve more work and stress. However my wiring is such that I tend to the philosophical and spiritual rather than focus on the harsher reality of day to day life. Perhaps it helps that because I am a deliberate optimist and also very comfortable, I am and delighted, if not proud, to have found myself. It took a while, but the journey was helpful and I am happy to find that I do like myself. The addition of a magic elixir, aka low dose hrt, nuance in presentation with longer hair and facial hair removed. All good....
Safe travels
Aisla
So how do we handle the merging of my gender identities into the core through ful acceptance and full ownership of all of it, making me now Nonbinary transsexual to heart, bone spirit mind and flesh, and owning it, able to celebrate it and not evade the full power and potential of being authentic through my whole essence?
No this is not over think this is raw and powerful identity unleashed.
Satinjoy
Quote from: Satinjoy on October 24, 2014, 06:38:02 PM
So how do we handle the merging of my gender identities into the core ..... through full acceptance and full ownership ..... making me .... authentic through my whole essence?
No this is not over think this is raw and powerful identity unleashed.
Satinjoy
This :)
Safe travels
Aisla
Quote from: Aisla on October 24, 2014, 06:04:31 PM
DF
Certainly agree it is partly a social construct but suggest that it is in bio/psycho/social in origin... But as internal and external cues have their foundation in social interaction, biology and the psyche, your synthesis also fits.
Now where did I put those head ache pills?
Safe travels
Sisal
Some people *cough*TERFs*cough* take the fact that we all construct our genders to mean that gender is not a valid thing at all. But just because something is socially constructed (to be honest the vast majority of ways we interact with the world are social constructs - language for instance), doesn't mean it's not valid or has a real effect on how an individual navigates the world. We literally build our gender from the ground up and then stick a shorthand label onto it in order to communicate that gender with the world. Your gender is valid because you say it is, built from the unique cues only you experience. Anyone who says otherwise is either ignorant or a wilfully trans-antagonistic, cissesexist bigot.
you mean the gender in language like the word "woman" being associated with a lot of things like behaviors , personality traits , appearances , clothes genre , set of feelings or so on ?
Cool responses, everyone is thinking.
I knew I was different from birth. Now I know why and who I really am, got here through pain and therapy and sobriety and people and truth and surrounding myself with brilliant minds, by accident.
The learned genders aramy fluid ones, the core has sucked them in through total acceptance by being broken by fighting them, now I feel whole.
I hope others can get this too. If they want.
Never would have got here without seeking truth and having the observing core that said this is feeling false, or this feels true.
It is a concept that frees me.
It is owning and respecting and celebrating who I am, after years of denial and self condemnation.
No more of those. This is my truth and my passion.
Blessings
Satinjoy
Little too much ego here from me, sorry.
The saying is....to thine own self be true...
Without distorting that, can it be said as ....to your own core be true?
The question of assimilating gender into it is my current milestone. It was one I did not expect to find.
In theater we act organically from center. Source of energy, power, authenticity. We search for it though yoga and meditation before taking the stage, even before starting the day.
With or without gender, it becomes a place of truth for us to seek our realities and our happiness.
The posts here show some of the ways we have found that.
Is that something you want too?
After all these years, I finally love my transgender core, and more than transgender, my totality, and can live truth without fear.
So of course I am excited and try to share this concept, one I do not hear anywhere else but here or in the theater, one I think can add to our lives and touch others in a wonderful way.
Blessings
Satinjoy
Sorry for barging in, but... What do people mean when they say "core gender?"
Who we are deep inside, without the pressures of conformity Or social pressure, that place deep within that watches, comments, feels, and knows what feels authentic and what does not. It may mean something different to you or others, and it may not be gendered, but is it Your truth as you experience it, without outside interference.
Jmo.
Oh like one's real self stripped of personas and masks?
My core is determined solely by my DNA and the accompanying male hardwiring. On the other hand I am intensely aware of my feminine side and lean heavily there because I prefer it. I like feminine things, colorful dress and enjoy living in the presence of women over men. In an emergency I am fully capable of drawing out the male presence to take care of business. I am who I am and don't have to color it to make it pretty, convolute it to cause confusion, and above all I don't have to ever justify it for the sake of others or for a sense of personal validation.
Quote from: Edge on October 25, 2014, 09:02:31 AM
Oh like one's real self stripped of personas and masks?
Yes
Quote from: Shantel on October 25, 2014, 09:14:13 AM
My core is determined solely by my DNA and the accompanying male hardwiring. On the other hand I am intensely aware of my feminine side and lean heavily there because I prefer it. I like feminine things, colorful dress and enjoy living in the presence of women over men. In an emergency I am fully capable of drawing out the male presence to take care of business. I am who I am and don't have to color it to make it pretty, convolute it to cause confusion, and above all I don't have to ever justify it for the sake of others or for a sense of personal validation.
Lucky sister. Yet you walked the path of self deception until one day your core said no.
And I admire you and your no bulls..t message. Straight from your gut.
Also my hardwire was.altered..des controversy
i'm at a conference right now, for parents interestingly.
there was a joyful swedish woman who talked a whole lot about experiences that had forced her to rethink all she'd learned about learning and her role as a teacher.
one story she told has a lot to do about self discovery, though she didn't tell it that way.
she had asked the kids in a class to write down what they wanted to become when they grew up. very enthusiastically, no limutations too early in life. they gave typical answers like idol or professional soccer player, but one boy answered differently. what he wanted to become was "happy".
so next up to do is write down things they need to do in order to achieve that goal. and since she never told them anything was impossible, they all wrote serious answers like do more pushups etc.
but this one boy who wanted to become hapoy started writing a list and then crossed out the different items on it.
this teacher, having realized that kids usually have some of the most intelligent answers to questions that seem way diffficult to adults, asked the boy what he was doing, why he was crossing off all that he wrote.
what he answeres was that he figured that the best way to become happy would be to stop doing all the things that made him unhappy.
not very different from what i have learned through my discussions with the folks here.
so much of what taka said about core gender fits me. I would not apply the concept of gender to my core.
I don't know that core is solely determined by my DNA. Leaving spirituality out of it for a moment, there is the nature versus nurture argument. I do not know what my DNA would look like if we could truly understand the lexicon. I do know that my brain is not wired "normally". I have long liked the term, if we are using labels, of neural atypical, as it best sums up so much. My disabilities and abilities and gender and traits are wound up in this. But I doubt it's solely DNA. Our brain is deeply influenced in the womb and as infants. I don't think you go through a childhood like I did without it affecting your core. So, to state it in a different way, I do not believe a "core" is a stable, unchangeable thing. I think I'm rambling.
I love Philosophy. "I think so therefore I am". But what am I? Male or female? Angel or demon? Sinner or saint? When it all comes down to it I am just human. No specifics, I sin and I do good. I am male and female. And as for the angel or demon part, that just depends on who I'm with if they want me to take them to heaven or put them through hell.
BTW Jessica, Philosophy in no means answers any of life's mysteries. If anything it makes life more mysterious. So actually delving into Philosophy makes life even more mysterious. If you ever find one answer, it leads to more questions. Almost like Psychology. ??? But I don't believe their are no black or white answers in life other than we are born and we die. What we are before we are born is a great mystery and what happens after we die is a great mystery. Here is one for everyone philosophically. We are non existent for way more than we exist in The Great Scheme of Things. So what are we during our times of non existence in this world? Is it truly non existence?
"I think so therefore I am". Powerful words because what makes us think? Why do we think? Why are we the only animal that I know of that recognizes ourselves as ourselves in the mirror? Because we think. Other animals use instinct and we use reason to live. Why? OK the crazy chick will shut up now. :P
BTW it could be what is at our core is possibly who we are at those times between non existence.
Quote from: Jessica Merriman on October 24, 2014, 11:36:19 AM
Life is too short. Just live like you want to without driving yourself crazy.
I am female, period. Nothing else needs to be said.
I think the difference is that things aren't so cut and dry for me. I have to think about it, because I'm going crazy already. It's like, I don't know, it's --
It's like we're in a cave, you and me. And it's dark, and it's scary, and there's no pinprick of light directing me to the surface, not from where I'm standing. It's claustrophobic in there, and my god, we want out. You have a rope in your hand, one that's anchored to a rock outside, and you know that if you just keep walking, keep following that line, you'll be out of that place for good someday. So you call out to me, "Cameron, c'mon man, just use the rope!"
But me, I'm thirty feet away, and even though I'm trying, I'm reaching out, there's no rope that I can find. I don't have anything to hold onto. So I start stepping, hands out, blindly groping. I could be walking the wrong direction for all I know, but I stay where I am, I'll die. My shuffle is slower than yours, and sometimes it takes me in circles. I feel the walls. I talk to myself and listen for echoes to direct me. But eventually, I find my way to the surface with you.
Asking questions like this is my echolocation. I have to think and think and listen to those thoughts in order to figure out where I am.
Less metaphorically, identifying my core gender (for example) helps me process my transition goals. Ideally, I'd like to see a match-up between my internal self and my external expression, just like any other trans person. So I'm going to have to think about this a bit before I answer for myself!
Well, when I look into myself, I find a lot of things (sort of like my desk at the moment, only if it had 61 years worth of junk instead of only 10), but I have never found a gender. Maybe it's because I'm a kind of concrete person (maybe that's why when I was a kid, the adults all said I had rocks in my head?) , but I don't even get what that means. Male/female/intersex anatomical features I can understand. Gender roles & expectations I sort of get, in the sense of things other people try to pressure you to do/be/not do/not be. But in your core? What you are when you turn out the lights and crawl inside your brain? I just don't get it. I'm not saying that there aren't people to whom this makes loads of sense, I'm just not one of them.
If I were to someday say that my core is "female" or that it's "male," it would have to be a conclusion, based on matching up my attributes and preferences to some checklist or other. "Okay, I took the Cosmo gender-identity test, and it's saying I'm 80% female, 44 % male, 68% genderqueer, 31.4159 % unidentifyable other. And, yeah, the article does say 'percentages may not add up to exaclty 100%.' I'll go with 'female.'"
percentages aren't supposed to add up to 100%, in most cases.
gender may be exactly what you're describing, asche.
something constructed almost according to a checklist.
which kids do i prefer playing with, what toys do i like most, what clothing, what parts do i have, how do i like my parts, do i want these things to grow bigger, how would i like my parts to be different, what kind of people do i want to attract, in which way do i want to attract people of different gender or sex, what do i want to identify as, etc?
except that for most people, they don't consciously go through the checklist, but instead just trust the intuitive gut feeling that they're "....."
or with cis people, they just never question their assigned gender because there aren't too many red items on their checklist, and none that have to do about the physical aspect.
When I look to who I am, stripped of pretense and without the patina of my culture and my experience. I don't see a boy or a girl. I see spirit and I see hope. My gender is a layer, as is my intelligence and how I relate sexually to other people. All this, at the core is artiface, at the core I am a human becoming.
Peace
Julie
Quote from: JulieBlair on October 27, 2014, 05:17:13 PM
When I look to who I am, stripped of pretense and without the patina of my culture and my experience. I don't see a boy or a girl. I see spirit and I see hope. My gender is a layer, as is my intelligence and how I relate sexually to other people. All this, at the core is artiface, at the core I am a human becoming.
Peace
Julie
You know I was going to answer something to this line earlier. I didn't though. You said everything I was thinking Julie in one paragraph. Mine was like five paragraphs and didn't think everyone wouldn't want to read that much stuff. Kudos girl. I guess I just got a big mouth or too active fingers. Most people tell me I talk too much so why would typing be that much different. ???
I totally am a girl inside, but wrapped in an outer core of a fully male body, wrapped inside whatever I happen to be wearing, which is usually an androgynous style all my own. Is my girl brain or my male body my true core? To further complicate things, my brain isn't really fully feminine, I have some guy thought patterns, for sure, and my male body has some feminine features...
I don't think I have just one core, I am both at the core, one is more mental, and one is more physical, both are just as important to me.
Quote from: VeronicaLynn on October 28, 2014, 12:28:01 AM
I totally am a girl inside, but wrapped in an outer core of a fully male body, wrapped inside whatever I happen to be wearing, which is usually an androgynous style all my own. Is my girl brain or my male body my true core? To further complicate things, my brain isn't really fully feminine, I have some guy thought patterns, for sure, and my male body has some feminine features...
I don't think I have just one core, I am both at the core, one is more mental, and one is more physical, both are just as important to me.
I don't believe anyone's brain is exclusively one or the other. I believe most people believe what they are is what they are on the outside. I do believe we are special and not in a bad way. It is a pretty big accomplishment Spiritually to be able to disconnect the material body from the Spirit. Yeah we catch a lot of crap from it, but we are naturally disconnected between body and Psyche or Spirit and a lot of people spend their whole lives trying to separate one from the other. I mean the whole Ideals of religion is to separate the Soul, Spirit or Consciousness from the material world. It comes natural for us. So, is it a good thing or a bad thing? I guess it just depends on how you look at things. It's not easy for sure, but what in life is easy?
Separation, or communion. But it starts with the heart.
Separation from the toxic world, that which corrupts, yes, from the material, I do not do this.
I find the core within the heart, it is intuitive, instinctive, deep inside. Not a matter of logic for me, not something I deduce. A communion with the God of my understanding, where He is integrated into my heart, and takes complete control if I let that happen. This is the God of my understanding and I wont force it here. But I speak from my own heart and experience. I would never have the stregth to survive without it.
But the core is heart. When I hear others talk of darkness in the core, it deeply saddens me. There should be joy in the core, and light and dancing and music. But getting there, it took me a long time...
Hopefully I dont sound egoistic or nuts, but this is where I am. Even in yoga or buddhism or the white occult we find connecting to the core, usually defined as a chakra or breathing center in the diaphram (ever wonder why you hold your breath to suppress fear? Breath is the seat of the emotions, according to the acting textbooks and best writers there).
Core is also the totality of our values, of our being. It is our integrity. It probably has got a big trans part of it, if trans is not shut down through non acceptance. That is part of the journey, to accept our fluid natures or andro or mtf or ftm or Cis, into the deapths of our beings, make it our own, own it, make it a powerful place of stregth within the core, and then in that stregth move out into a hostile world and turn it upside down.
That is core to me, the seat of the essence of me, the definitions of who I am, intuitively.
And there is Spirit living in the core, mine, and also the One which watches over me, if you can accept this. You dont have to accep that, but it is a key to what makes Satinjoy who sh'e is. Since we are in the nonbinary section I dont want to cross over to the religion part, but core is not religion, it may be powered by it, but core is core. Who we are deep inside, free of outside influences, our sense of self.
As I see it. From a spiritual point of view, from an experiential point of view, all of us are different. Or are we?
Blessings
Satinjoy.