just curious how did you or will learn about every day things like make up , fashion, mannerisms, conversation etc.
My friends helped me a lot with that.
There's an app for that.
Also my wife said she would help some. Push come to shove I will learn from my daughters as they grow up? Lol
I just do everything I wanted to do/always did, only now without soul crushing shame and with an added sense of personal well being/inner contentment/peace with my body.
Mannerisms I learned from a 16-year-old MTF in our support group who showed no signs of every having been male-bodied. I watched what she did.
Makeup - I don't do makeup except to cover my beard shadow. I went into a MAC shop and bought what they told me I needed.
Fashion - This sort of came naturally. I looked at women I thought were attractive and decided what I wanted to wear.
Conversation - No problem here. I've always related to women the way females do.
If I had a really vexing question (like what pads work best...) I asked my sister.
I learned makeup from friends, the Internet, and I had a makeover at a department store once. I used Andrea James' voice training program for my voice therapy. Feminine mannerisms and expressions come natural to me, and I also learn by observing other women. Learning to walk femininely was challenging, because I had to unlearn bad habits. I improved my walk by observing others, learning from the Internet and watching YouTube videos.
To be honest I just stopped acting like/pretending I was a man.
I'm not overly effeminate as a woman, but as a guy I was never overly masculine anyway. I already had the mannerisms I just never used them in public to avoid ridicule or people thinking I was "gay". Clothes and shoes... I've spent a large portion of my life eyeing the things I liked but couldn't wear, now that I can it's just a matter of finding it in my size! As for make up I'm not into it much and use it sparingly anyway.
Quote from: Handy on October 28, 2014, 12:38:26 PM
I just do everything I wanted to do/always did, only now without soul crushing shame and with an added sense of personal well being/inner contentment/peace with my body.
Yes! I didn't "learn" to be a woman as much as I unlocked my natural femininity.
Quote from: Ms Grace on October 28, 2014, 01:28:10 PM
To be honest I just stopped acting like/pretending I was a man.
I'm not overly effeminate as a woman, but as a guy I was never overly masculine anyway. I already had the mannerisms I just never used them in public to avoid ridicule or people thinking I was "gay". Clothes and shoes... I've spent a large portion of my life eyeing the things I liked but couldn't wear, now that I can it's just a matter of finding it in my size! As for make up I'm not into it much and use it sparingly anyway.
Also, ^THIS^.
I still think I need a bit of makeup to be correctly gendered, make my eyes pretty and boost my confidence level. You will pry my eyeliner from my cold, dead hand! Come to think of it, I even wore eyeliner as a "guy" toward the end of that era. Guyliner, anyone?
By realizing I wasn't a male. I became myself, and allowed myself to be who I really am. Takes a lot of guts as you probably know. Then it simply came together automatically. Didnt do voice training but everyone noticed that my voice went up. As for clothes and makeup, I had a fieldday. I finally could be creative without feeling ashamed. Not sure how this all works, it just does, it just clicks into place and everything follows from there.
As for my previous life, I acted as male . As a woman I don't need a rolemodel, as a man I did, because my identity wasn't genuine. Now I am genuine. But I don't go sweeping my hips or doing something else "on purpose" just to feel feminine. I don't walk around like a kim kardashian clone, I'm just me. Genuine, classy and authentic. And that scares people away, because 90% of all people aren't genuine. They all wear masks, or try to be like someone else that they are not. I guess they suffer from genuine-dysphoria.
Quote from: PinkCloud on October 28, 2014, 01:50:18 PM
As for my previous life, I acted as male . As a woman I don't need a rolemodel, as a man I did, because my identity wasn't genuine. Now I am genuine. But I don't go sweeping my hips or doing something else "on purpose" just to feel feminine. I don't walk around like a kim kardashian clone, I'm just me. Genuine, classy and authentic. And that scares people away, because 90% of all people aren't genuine. They all wear masks, or try to be like someone else that they are not. I guess they suffer from genuine-dysphoria.
Awesome! (Although 55.8% of stats are made up on the spot...) ;)
Quote from: Jill F on October 28, 2014, 02:01:51 PM
Awesome! (Although 55.8% of stats are made up on the spot...) ;)
I see what you did there!
To be honest I have no idea how I learned, it just happened. Girly stuff like makeup and clothes I taught myself when I was around 11 or 12.
Have never had any help with anything from gg's, nor have I ever had a role model. Never needed or wanted any of that.
I just just stopped pretending to be a guy and just let the real me out. Cause all that guy world stuff, was soooo clueless I had no idea what I was doing! :D
I was watching this thread hoping so much to learn ideas moving forward.
I know I am the "red-headed step-child" here; 50 something, just about to begin HRT (so looking forward to introducing myself to myself), worked so hard in my younger life to pull-off alpha-male that it is now second nature; that I have to begin anew to learning the entire process of combining my inner femininity with my outer shell. Allie needs some serious help here (as Tessa James can attest), and I need to get running hard.
I am genuinely thrilled for the younger ladies that never needed to work at this, or the older ones that have connected at some level to their outer feminine needs throughout their pre-HRT days, but......
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRGH, resources please.
Makeup: Revlon websites and a makeover in Sephoria
Voice: singing with the radio, a book on tape read by a woman and voice lessons for polish
Walking: I followed girls walking, imitated them, found a woman walk that was comfortable and used that one
Clothing: pictures of nice looking women who's clothing I liked.
Mannerisms: a work in progress
Hugs
Jen
When I stopped fighting against myself and finally accepted that I am transgender
my mannerisms seemed to automatically change from macho male to very feminine
as if I turned a light switch from off to on. It was truly amazing and quite an
experience. My wife tells me I am now more feminine than she and it all
happened so naturally. Apparently it happens that way for some of us and
others not so lucky have to spend a very long time trying to master feminine
mannerisms.
I really can't say I learned to be a woman yet, especially cause I'm not full time but even if I was, I don't think there's a "right" way to be a woman. Just many different ways.
Yes, but obviously there are basics that almost every woman is aware of, at least within the same culture. For voice, I have it naturally, mine never broke and IDK why. Makeup I still have to master, I know next to nothing, and when I put on it, I look like a clown, I feel soooo bad. It's a work in progress. For hair removal, I usually wax or pluck my facial hair, which is sparse thankfully.
I think my main problem is socialization. I am trying to cope with my friends leavin me, or not really wanting me in their lives, so i'm going to stop contacting them for good. But honestly I feel so alone sometimes I want to cry. I really want to have more girlfriends, but I don't. So it's socialization that's my main problem. I'm not socialized m uch as a boy either, cause I was never part or fit in with "the guys".
Quote from: Auroramarianna on October 28, 2014, 02:58:05 PM
I really can't say I learned to be a woman yet, especially cause I'm not full time but even if I was, I don't think there's a "right" way to be a woman. Just many different ways.
Yes, but obviously there are basics that almost every woman is aware of, at least within the same culture. For voice, I have it naturally, mine never broke and IDK why. Makeup I still have to master, I know next to nothing, and when I put on it, I look like a clown, I feel soooo bad. It's a work in progress. For hair removal, I usually wax or pluck my facial hair, which is sparse thankfully.
I think my main problem is socialization. I am trying to cope with my friends leavin me, or not really wanting me in their lives, so i'm going to stop contacting for good. But honestly I feel so alone sometimes I want to cry. I really want to have more girlfriends, but I don't. So it's socialization that's my main problem. I'm not socialized m uch as a boy either, cause I was never part or fit in with "the guys".
We like you.
Hugs
Jen
always learning (;
but for most part, anything fashion I look up online or just try and see what looks good. Manners and things I've always had a womanly side to, I don't curse and I am more sensitive in certain areas than a guy would be.
I haven't learnt make up or voice yet but in terms of mannerisms, apart from my walk, I just stop pretending to be a man and acted as I would if I was free to act as I want.
My little sister showed me a few things about makeup many, many years ago and for the rest, I just mostly wing it.
I think it's better to just be yourself & enjoy being feminine with everything you do. Maybe learn a little from girl friends, sisters, mothers, every woman you see & talk with, etc....
I learned makeup and hair from older sisters, as well as establishing a good fashion sense. They were rocking the 1960's and the mini-dress was in. Then came the bell-bottoms... As I got older, I met others in my situation and honed my makeup skills along with dressing to impress and other fun things. Needless to say, I was my younger sisters role model (I have three older and five younger). To this day, they thank me for the skin care advice and their edgy fashion sense.
But now I wearable classy sensible clothes, but still rock the boots!
I've kind of done it in baby steps through out my life , its work in progress. its amazing all the little things to learn just through observation like how to tie your hair up or where to put hair pins, but mostly I just try to do my own thing. except the uniform of the day seems to be leggings.
Hi Stephanie
It's an incredibly interesting question, really, because of the variety of ways we get to becoming the woman we need to be. I see many pre-HRT women thinking that HRT will make the girl suddently come into being, and it's complete nonsense of course.
What surprised me was how natutrally and easily the girl started to emerge. Yes, she needed help with voice and makeup and a push-start in the clothing department from mother, sister and friends, but overall she just kind-of came into existence.
There is no doubt that, for many of us, some behavioural issues do have to be learned - ways to hold our arms and hands, or one that I find particularly interesting - how women tend to move their bodies when jogging or running.
Hugs
Julia
Quote from: Auroramarianna on October 28, 2014, 02:58:05 PM
I really can't say I learned to be a woman yet, especially cause I'm not full time but even if I was, I don't think there's a "right" way to be a woman. Just many different ways.
Yes, but obviously there are basics that almost every woman is aware of, at least within the same culture. For voice, I have it naturally, mine never broke and IDK why. Makeup I still have to master, I know next to nothing, and when I put on it, I look like a clown, I feel soooo bad. It's a work in progress. For hair removal, I usually wax or pluck my facial hair, which is sparse thankfully.
I think my main problem is socialization. I am trying to cope with my friends leavin me, or not really wanting me in their lives, so i'm going to stop contacting them for good. But honestly I feel so alone sometimes I want to cry. I really want to have more girlfriends, but I don't. So it's socialization that's my main problem. I'm not socialized m uch as a boy either, cause I was never part or fit in with "the guys".
Hey Aurora
Your first point: absolutely right and well observed
Your second point: it may feel a bit awkward now to have the voice you do, but you already know how lucky you will be going forward with it. As for the makeup, as The Girl evolves, so will the makeup.
Your third point: you've taken the big step to move on, and the friends will come. Hell, you've got plenty of them here already.
For an 18-year old, I remain permanently impressed by your insight and maturity.
Biiiig hugs.
A/J
Here's some good news ladies, thanks to the miracle of neuro-plasticity just living and being treated as female will socialise you as female. This even works if you were a grrrr! Manly man! Kind of of man, because any socialisation will be over written.
This is why having people in your life who respect your gender identity and treat you in line with that identity.
Quote from: Dread_Faery on October 28, 2014, 06:40:40 PM
This is why having people in your life who respect your gender identity and treat you in line with that identity.
and it can be difficult still living with peoples who dont .
Regarding the body language, manners and all that, I just stopped doing it wrong :P - makeup and fashion I did the same as all teenagers do, got myself some teenage magazines and they had tons of fashion and makeup tips in them. I guess today this would mean youtube and ehow or something like that ;). I was in my early 20ies but basically went back 8 years or so and became a teen girl again. I was lucky - I sometimes did not even look >20yo but rather teen-like, was asked for my ID a lot ;)
Quote from: Handy on October 28, 2014, 12:38:26 PM
I just do everything I wanted to do/always did, only now without soul crushing shame and with an added sense of personal well being/inner contentment/peace with my body.
Ditto... as a matter of fact I had to learn the boy mannerism so as to stop the harassment and beatings... I continue the farce until recently...
Just be yourself. I lived long enough pretending... who wants to continue pretending to be something they are not?
For me a lot of things just popped up when I stopped hiding them, others I had to work on and I'm still working on some of them.
Interestingly enough my Mom actually prepared me well because she was very adamant about proper etiquette having attended a finishing school for girls, I don't think she realized that much of it was mostly targeted towards ladies so she raised me to walk, eat and socialize like a girl without realizing it :)
Fashion is a non issue, always had an eye for fashion, been helping my girlfriend with her wardrobe since we met and went shopping with my girlfriends when I was younger.
Make-up took a couple of weeks on Youtube and some practise, it's all about details and realizing which things to emphasize and hide, some technique but that's just practise and a steady hand.
Movement and walk came very naturally, just a bit of deprogramming and I started gliding.
Voice is the hardest, people used to tell me my voice had a feminine quality but getting everything in line takes a lot of practise and work, there are some tricks that can be used but I don't want to sound nasal or like I have a lisp.
I guess this is where coming out at a young age really helps.
Its all I really know. There's no way I could do many things that men pick up as they're growing up. The fact that I never even shaved my face is a example.
For make up my mum helped at first with basic stuff, my friends & cousins showed me better techniques and even to this day, all these years later I'm still learning new things from YouTube with make up.
Fashion changes so much in a month that you need to really pay attention to sadly magazines like Cosmo. See what people your age are wearing, listen & watch out for trends and enjoy fashion.
Body language I think it's key to relax, do what comes naturally and you'll be right
I'm learning it on the job! :laugh:
Seriously, most every bit of this was learned the hard way with no help whatsoever - dress, makeup, mannerisms, how to converse, and how to walk and move. The only thing I had help with is my voice (and today I wasn't paying enough attention to my voice on the phone and I got sirred :eusa_snooty: - whoops! gotta not do that.....).
My mom had very good fashion sense and I think some of that rubbed off on me; I tend toward dressing nicely and my eye is drawn to elegant clothing even if my finances say "no". Makeup was purely trial and error and lots of clown looking effects in the early days. All of the rest of it seems to come naturally to me now that pretend dude mode is gone.
If you are just launching out into these waters keep you eyes and ears open and observe, observe, observe and really listen to and learn from other women, and take notice of clothing styles on other women you see that you like. It makes it easier when you take the plunge.
On a serious note, don't learn to be a woman, learn to be you. The cissexist, hetronormative patriarchy treats women as objects and second class citizens. Do what ever the hell you want and laugh in the face of anyone who tells you it's not feminine. Behaviour is only gendered because the world tells us it is, same goes for jobs, pastimes and activities.
I was always a very prim and ladylike child - it was unsuppressable. I had a number of periods in my life where I tried to "butch it up," with my last hurrah being between ages 40-42 when I grew a beard and consciously started thinking about how I sat, my speech patterns, pitch etc. to be more like a guy. It was pretty laughable and very phony. No one was fooled in the slightest. People always assumed I was gay (I publicly identified as such). I would have people tell me that I was very feminine but not queeny or effeminATE. Usually with a very puzzled look on their faces.
When I decided to transition, all my mannerisms and postures and gestures and voice just HAPPENED. More like a kind of letting go than forcing something to occur. I do try to be conscious of my voice though. I always got gendered female on the phone, but somehow it sounds different and more androgynous in person. I have to think to modulate the pitch upward and keep the resonance in my chest. I hope that part becomes automatic. I also think sometimes I handle certain social situations in a male way because I was conditioned to. I shook a guy's hand very firmly the other day and later overheard him say, "Dang, that girl's really nice but I bet she kicks some ass."
The only things I "learnt" were cosmetic-related things, such as makeup/fashion etc - which I learned like any other cis woman, through experience and asking family/friends.
Apart from that I didn't "learn" anything else - many people say I have a very feminine persona down to the smallest mannerisms. I don't consider myself to be consciously doing anything towards that, I'm just doing what comes naturally, which I encourage anyone to do - and of course it's perfectly fine to be masculine or otherwise non-typically feminine too.
However, I transitioned quite young, so perhaps I didn't have decades of socialisation as an adult male which would have complicated matters.
You have to learn to be a woman D:? Omehgawd.. what if I fail > ____ <.
My best friend who is a cis-woman.. she taught me how to apply make-up, walk in heels, how to style outfits and how to sit like a woman..
the rest, i taught myself... by mostly observing other woman and how they interact with each other.
Quote from: Kirey on October 29, 2014, 12:04:03 PM
You have to learn to be a woman D:? Omehgawd.. what if I fail > ____ <.
Relax girlfriend.... it just kind-of happens. But yes, you do become sensitised to certain things - how women speak, how they interact with men and each other. It's not so difficult, although like anything worthwhile, it does require a bit of effort. And then it becomes natural...
Quote from: m1anderson on October 28, 2014, 02:16:02 PM
I was watching this thread hoping so much to learn ideas moving forward.
I know I am the "red-headed step-child" here; 50 something, just about to begin HRT (so looking forward to introducing myself to myself), worked so hard in my younger life to pull-off alpha-male that it is now second nature; that I have to begin anew to learning the entire process of combining my inner femininity with my outer shell. Allie needs some serious help here (as Tessa James can attest), and I need to get running hard.
I am genuinely thrilled for the younger ladies that never needed to work at this, or the older ones that have connected at some level to their outer feminine needs throughout their pre-HRT days, but......
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRGH, resources please.
Allie you are brilliant, determined and focused enough to be just the girl you want and you have the resources to get there. Goodness knows there is more advice than asked for some days but, truly the land of You Tube and threads right here are full of learning opportunities.
Quote from: Dread_Faery on October 28, 2014, 06:40:40 PM
Here's some good news ladies, thanks to the miracle of neuro-plasticity just living and being treated as female will socialise you as female. This even works if you were a grrrr! Manly man! Kind of of man, because any socialisation will be over written.
This is why having people in your life who respect your gender identity and treat you in line with that identity.
so true science and critically important social support are working for us in our transitions ;)
Quote from: Dread_Faery on October 29, 2014, 09:29:16 AM
On a serious note, don't learn to be a woman, learn to be you. The cissexist, hetronormative patriarchy treats women as objects and second class citizens. Do what ever the hell you want and laugh in the face of anyone who tells you it's not feminine. Behaviour is only gendered because the world tells us it is, same goes for jobs, pastimes and activities.
Hell yes +1. I couldn't believe the avalanche of advice that came my way. While I like being approachable and learning it eventually became over the top stereotyping. Be the girl YOU want to be.
Living with a woman and raising a daughter sure helped me to learn along the way
Great thread Stephanie. It feels to me like you often have such innocent and provocative questions :D
I could have this long typed out post with a bunch of details and experiences but for once I can actually sum this up in one sentence. I stopped pretending to be something I wasn't and simply started being myself.
Quote from: Lady_Oracle on October 31, 2014, 04:31:54 AM
I could have this long typed out post with a bunch of details and experiences but for once I can actually sum this up in one sentence. I stopped pretending to be something I wasn't and simply started being myself.
I would agree. For many many years I pretending to be something I was not. Mind you though, I'm a great actor and I pulled it of exceptionally well. Unfortunately I learnt a few bad habits along the way so now just trying to break them. There's still much to do, but it'll come in time. Oh, voice, I'm starting Speech Therapy in January, woohoo!
Quote from: Julia-Madrid on October 30, 2014, 04:30:09 PM
Relax girlfriend.... it just kind-of happens. But yes, you do become sensitised to certain things - how women speak, how they interact with men and each other. It's not so difficult, although like anything worthwhile, it does require a bit of effort. And then it becomes natural...
Perhaps my experience is different, as for me it was no effort at all to interact as a woman, it took "effort" to not appear too feminine when I used to be perceived as a male. Then again, I lived mainly with my mum and sister, and my Dad was never typically "blokey", or trying to 'toughen me up' so maybe in my case I never developed particularly masculine habits.
However, I have seen others who have developed masculine habits, perhaps out of necessity or repression, and have to "unlearn" these - although I think this could be applied to becoming yourself in any sense. We all have bad habits picked up from socialisation and experiences that mean we don't fulfil our true selves, whether it be making constantly scathing/sarcastic jokes to cover up fear and vulnerability, or being shy and repressed due to negative/embarassing experiences etc.
I think transition can be a "and while we're at it.." process - by which I mean, while we are making such a huge step towards becoming our true selves in terms of gender, we may as well also look at other aspects of ourselves and unlearn other, non-gender related bad habits while we're at it.
Quote from: Assoluta on October 31, 2014, 08:51:53 AM
Perhaps my experience is different, as for me it was no effort at all to interact as a woman, it took "effort" to not appear too feminine when I used to be perceived as a male. Then again, I lived mainly with my mum and sister, and my Dad was never typically "blokey", or trying to 'toughen me up' so maybe in my case I never developed particularly masculine habits.
However, I have seen others who have developed masculine habits, perhaps out of necessity or repression, and have to "unlearn" these - although I think this could be applied to becoming yourself in any sense. We all have bad habits picked up from socialisation and experiences that mean we don't fulfil our true selves, whether it be making constantly scathing/sarcastic jokes to cover up fear and vulnerability, or being shy and repressed due to negative/embarassing experiences etc.
I think transition can be a "and while we're at it.." process - by which I mean, while we are making such a huge step towards becoming our true selves in terms of gender, we may as well also look at other aspects of ourselves and unlearn other, non-gender related bad habits while we're at it.
Assoluta, you make some extremely valuable points. Perhaps you were lucky to not have so much accumulated socialised masculinity, although it may also be that your "not so masculine" persona caused you some trouble amongst peers or at school or wherever.
For me, although many people sort-of suspected that I was gay, as a company director and board member for too many years I had developed some nasty testosterone-driven habits. Thankfully those have all fallen away, heavens it didn't even take 6 months! But yes, it did take some effort, not enormous, but appreciable.
Hugs
Julia
This is something I've found that takes time. I remember when I was younger distinctly looking at girls foot patterns while walking & taught myself to walk like one. Much of it came very naturally because I was always very feminine. I would even get teased at school for it & was constantly asked if I was gay & such :p I actually can't say I ever really acted like a boy but if there is one thing I definitely did have to teach myself it was to eat like a girl! If you notice, guys tend to eat a lot more aggressive & a lot more than a girl does. Girls eat with smaller bites & just generally don't look as gross eating as guys do. My tip, there's too much on your spoon if you can't look cute eating it.
Quote from: Ms Grace on October 28, 2014, 01:28:10 PM
To be honest I just stopped acting like/pretending I was a man.
I'm not overly effeminate as a woman, but as a guy I was never overly masculine anyway. I already had the mannerisms I just never used them in public to avoid ridicule or people thinking I was "gay". Clothes and shoes... I've spent a large portion of my life eyeing the things I liked but couldn't wear, now that I can it's just a matter of finding it in my size! As for make up I'm not into it much and use it sparingly anyway.
Exactly what I've done!
My wonderful spouse has helped me a lot with makeup tips, shopping, fashion hints and so many other "girl tricks" Honestly dont know what I would do without her.
Quote from: stephaniec on October 28, 2014, 12:12:11 PM
just curious how did you or will learn about every day things like make up , fashion, mannerisms, conversation etc.
I have studied women all my life. behavior, mannerisms, walking, talking, socializing, behavior.
but that wasnt enough.
i took ballet as a senior in college. that really helped to feminize my walk, give me proper posture and give a bit of grace and balance to myself in front of others.
took speech therapy for a little over a year and a half.
im still learning about fashion....damn clothing trends change faster than thr weather!!!
im convinced I will never learn to style my hair as I want it.
estrogen and t-blockers did the rest.
having a good therapist to vent to and unload the baggage helps.
stay active, positive...eliminate sources of negativity and depresion.
surround yourself with quality people that support you. go to a support group if possible.
study the part, play the part, be the part.
best of all...get in where you fit in.
The way I read the question was not "How did you become a woman" but "Which new things did you have to learn living as a woman", not saying it's the right interpretation but I think there might be more than one way to interpret the question.
Quote from: Isabelle on November 02, 2014, 04:57:48 PM
I don't like this question, it reminds me of "Little Britain"... I didn't "become" anything. I just am. I look a little different than I used to.
If you think clothes,make up and mannerisms are what you need to "become" a woman, I actually feel sorry for you.
Quote from: antonia on November 02, 2014, 05:55:39 PM
The way I read the question was not "How did you become a woman" but "Which new things did you have to learn living as a woman", not saying it's the right interpretation but I think there might be more than one way to interpret the question.
I asked it because people gendered female from birth are taught by their mothers on the aspects of womanhood, dating dressing, etc. , etc. , but us trans are usually thrown in the deep end of the pool to learn to swim.
Quote from: Isabelle on November 02, 2014, 04:57:48 PM
I don't like this question, it reminds me of "Little Britain"... I didn't "become" anything. I just am. I look a little different than I used to.
If you think clothes,make up and mannerisms are what you need to "become" a woman, I actually feel sorry for you.
^This. Just be who you are. I haven't done anything, I'm 17 months in, which has been easy as I live in a trans-friendly city with a free access to HRT (I just found that out!!!), and I think what helps the most is authenticity. I'm shy, far from confident, deflect my eyes sometimes, yet guys ask for my number, call me mommy, all the typical stuff, and luckily haven't had to practice my voice, though, should, but I dread it.
I'm lucky but I also went to school, worked my a$$ off, never partied, and here I am.
But, the point is, be yourself. But I can agree with Isabelle in that I don't feel I became anything and find it a tad insulting (though I know it was not meant that way at all). Words and all. I am, was, and always will be a girl, whether I like it or not. I can't change it anymore i can change that I am highkly emotional and skinny. And people have commented on my girlishness whole life...though I have never been bullied. I was a victim of violence multiple times, but that was a wrong time, stupid decision thingy.
Come to think of it, I'd love to find out what my friend Andi, thinks of your "hypothesis". She was raised by 2 men.
I'm having trouble not seeing the implications of your question deeply misogynist.
Quote from: stephaniec on October 28, 2014, 12:12:11 PM
just curious how did you or will learn about every day things like make up , fashion, mannerisms, conversation etc.
I never "learned to be a woman." I learned how to act like a boy when I was younger to alleviate the torment and castigating behaviors from my four older brothers. I was already inherently feminine in my personality, demeanor, and mannerisms since I was little as many other transsexual women are. I was born with mild version of PAIS (but more severe than MAIS) so the lack of testosterone, I suspect, helped me along in that regard once I hit puberty and refused testosterone and dihydrotestosterone shots. Thus, I never "learned" how to be me. All the "learning" I did was trying to mimic my older brothers to avoid the social consequences of expressing who I really was. I find it perplexing how people need others to "teach" them to be the person they claim they are.
Perhaps you were born knowing how to do your makeup, how to layer your clothing, how to walk in high heels, how to do your hair and other things that women tend to learn growing up and then again perhaps you don't do any of those things but most of us have to learn regardless of having XX or XY chromosomes. I don't think anyone is implying that you can become a woman by learning those things but simply that these are things that some of us feel like we need to learn and we are discussing how and when we learned these things.
Quote from: Isabelle on November 02, 2014, 06:25:42 PM
Come to think of it, I'd love to find out what my friend Andi, thinks of your "hypothesis". She was raised by 2 men.
I'm having trouble not seeing the implications of your question deeply misogynist.
Quote from: Isabelle on November 02, 2014, 06:25:42 PM
Come to think of it, I'd love to find out what my friend Andi, thinks of your "hypothesis". She was raised by 2 men.
I'm having trouble not seeing the implications of your question deeply misogynist.
sorry it wasn't meant that way. my mother died when I was 8 I had no understanding of the female perception of things. what I know is self taught.
Makeup: experimentation and online tutorials. Being involved in the rock /alternative scene since my teens has meant that I have a lot of experience already even presenting as male :)
Fashion: Jennifer Parkin can answer this question:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi180.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx196%2FDeathwishVF%2FAyria%2FAyriaFashion.jpg&hash=0730f798e2fa1fcb6e62b32c5112731f9eaa674d)
:laugh:
Mannerisms: I just act like myself. I act naturally feminine so all I have to do is not act like a guy. I don't discount the possibility that I've picked at least some of this up by osmosis over the years though :)
Conversations: much the same as mannerisms really, except I never really managed to learn how to talk like a man, so really all I need to do is talk without the usual restraints. If we're including voice feminisation in this too, then obviously voice feminisation therapy is going to help me there. I've always enjoyed singing along to my favourite music and I do lots of silly voices and impressions, so I've probably got a decent head start there too :)
"I find it perplexing how people need others to "teach" them to be the person they claim they are."
^^^
That sums it up pretty well perfectly.
Learning to put on eyeliner isn't "learning to become a woman"
It's learning to put on bloody eyeliner.
I wondered how long it would take before someone would take this innocently posed question literally. Oh that's right some have a life line that suggests they were born a woman. I am glad to hear that some never were a baby or a child that was socialized to their detriment or in directions that made no sense to them. And some of us apparently never had a thing to learn because we aleady knew it all. Okay, i'm sorry, sarcasm isn't pretty and neither is being harsh on your family here.
I for one have a lot to learn and appreciate opportunities to share with others without fear of ridicule. Misogyny is real, stereotypes are real and people wear masks and clothing that are culturally appropriate. It's ok to learn about how others feel or how you solved some riddle isn't it?
Always more things I can learn, but many of these things I was able to do or had done before hand. I just improved my skills after starting my transition.
Makeup- I was pretty good at this coming in considering I had been playing around with it since my early teens. A makeover at Sephoria helped take it to the next level. Which helped cover my beard before laser really did a number on it.
Mannerisms- Many of these I was doing without even really paying attention. I have no doubt this was a dead give away to those who live in my area. The reason behind remarks in my direction before I started and why they quickly disappeared after I started. However, I'm always paying attention to the little things around me and to those little things that I could benefit from learning and integrating.
Voice- My ability to sing someone what in that range to start with helped lay down a great foundation to start with, but this has been my biggest shortfall. Only because I'm not pleased with it even those others have said its good. I tend to be a perfectionist and I guess I that in my mind it is a work in progress. In time I'm sure I will come to love my voice but until then I keep trying to tweak it a bit.
Fashion- I have really used what knowledge I have as to what colors and styles look good on me and family and close friends have helped focus that better. A lot of it comes down to what I like while at the same time looks good on me.
Conversation- It's a work in progress I had some skills at it coming in, but confidence from gaining experience is what is helping me here. Sure I make mistakes sometimes, but then I learn from them and improve.
All in all much of it, as others have stated too, was unlocking the femininity that was already there.
Mariah
The question is just poorly worded. OP is merely asking how one learned to express their internal femininity externally in a way society recognizes. When I present as male, everyone assumes I'm male on the inside as well. In order to tell society that I'm female on the inside, I have to express it on the outside. This is not to say anyone has to do anything to anything to express their internal femininity externally. Present in any way or fashion you feel fit. However, society recognizes certain things as being masculine and feminine. It's silly, but that's how it works.
I'm still in the process of learning things. I'm using the internet and friends to help me. I'll present in a way that society recognizes as feminine, but the manner that I do will be my choice.
Hi friends :police:
It has become apparent that some individuals do not understand the question rendered and feel the need to post rude remarks
Topic locked until further notice
Thank you
V M