So heres the story.
I have a really good male friend, I've known him since I first moved to Melbourne and we hit it off from day 1, he was more of a drinking buddy than anything else. Anyway, he met a girl about 10 years ago, they got married in Thailand in March of this year, we all went over for the wedding and had a ball.
The thing is over the last year I've been on the end of some real bitchiness from her.
Firstly, her hens party I wasn't invited to, but all my friends were, it was only at the last minute (the night before) I got a text message saying she'll love me to come and that its weird I didn't get the invite, I had seen her at least 10 times between the invites going out and her hens party, not once was it mentioned.
At her wedding, I was dancing with a friend and my best friend was standing near her waiting for her drink and filming some of us on her phone.
You can clearly hear he say "I f***king hate that skinny bitch" someone asks who and she said "Nicole, I didn't want her to come but Nathan cracked it".
Since we've been back I'm being left out or not asked to do thing with them and my friends as well.
Now they're having a baby and when I found out (on Facebook mind you while everyone else found out well before hand) I bought Nathan a cigar, I remember about 10 years ago he said that when he has a kid he wanted to light up a cigar. Nathan loved it while his now wife questioned on why I would ever buy someone something so "dangerous".
Even some of her comments are really getting to me, a few weeks ago one of my best friends 3 year old had her b'day, we all had a few bottles of wine, I was called a drunk because "every time she sees me I have a drink in my hand she wasn't drinking which is good.
I turned up after looking at a wedding venue with my friend Charlotte, it was also the first day over 30˚ since March, so I wore a dress that wasn't above my fingertips (you now the test) and wasn't that low cut.
I got out of the car and started to get looks from her, after a while she, in front of everyone says "You know theres no single fathers here, so you didn't have to wear such a short dress", then claims she was joking.
Later that dad, the b'day girl was sitting on my lap and playing with my earrings, which were diamond but nothing over the top and had them in from the night before, I said "do you wanna wear them babe" and she did, so I put them in and you should have heard it.
"Why the f*** would you give a child diamond earrings to wear, if she loses them I'm going to laugh so hard".
If she lost them or one (which she didn't) yes I wouldn't have been over the moon, but they can be replaced.
What made me post this though is last night I get an invite to a BBQ at their house from nathan on Facebook, within 5 minutes she sends a message to the page saying the BBQ is off now.
This morning I call Charlotte to see what she wants to do on sunday and she said "aren't we going to Nathan's for the BBQ?" I said it was off and she said, no, i got an invite this morning, she texted me.
Now as far as I know I haven't done or said anything to her, ever. I've been welcoming since they got together, I've always thought that she liked me until this year. I know that she has weight issues and that she was going to the gym 6 nights a week to get ready for her wedding, she didn't lose too much weight, but I wouldn't have thought she would be that petty. I never flash money in their face, I have never flirted with Nathan from day one. He has more female friends than male and I'm the only one copping this.
What can I do, I'm getting to the point where I'm going to let her have it.
He may have more female friends then male, but are you his best friend? She could think you are a threat to her.
Sometimes people just take a dislike to someone for no apparent reason that we can see. Be calm and not during a BBQ or any other gathering, just ask her do you hate me.
If she is being as snark and snide as you say she will soon reveal herself in front of your friends
Quote from: immortal gypsy on October 31, 2014, 05:59:58 PM
He may have more female friends then male, but are you his best friend? She could think you are a threat to her.
Sometimes people just take a dislike to someone for no apparent reason that we can see. Be calm and not during a BBQ or any other gathering, just ask her do you hate me.
If she is being as snark and snide as you say she will soon reveal herself in front of your friends
Wouldn't say we're best friends, he is my best male friend, and he has a best male friend as well but we are pretty close.
A few of my friends have picked up on it, Nathan even has. Someone said that she sees my as the queen-bee of the group, which I'm not.
Well,she clearly doesn't like you. These things happen, there's not much we can do about the significant others of friends or family (you should get a load of the seriously unfriendly bitch my brother married). If she knows you are trans then it may be discrimination. And/or she sees you as attractive and is jealous of you. Any number of reasons. You having a crack at her will probably damage your relationship with your friend. Personally I'd just ignore her.
Women. ::) ;) Welcome to the club.
Sounds like personality problem. We can't please everyone all the time. Unless you're willing to completely blow up your friendship with Nathan, hold your tongue be the adult and try to remain civil to her. If some of your friends are aware of the situation, blow off steam at them occasionally.
But don't bitch behind her back as it will only prove to her she's right about you. It's like office politics from the comfort of your living room
Doesn't know I'm trans.
In fact, unless someone has told Nathan, I doubt he even knows.
When I came out, not long after we moved to Melbourne, I was full time, very skinny, very small, on blockers and only my family knew.
Of all my friends, there's only 2 that know, the rest, as far as I know have no clue.
I'm now mid 30s (that hurts), long time post GRS and so many of my friends now have come into my life post grs
Quote from: immortal gypsy on October 31, 2014, 06:27:28 PM
Sounds like personality problem. We can't please everyone all the time. Unless you're willing to completely blow up your friendship with Nathan, hold your tongue be the adult and try to remain civil to her. If some of your friends are aware of the situation, blow off steam at them occasionally.
I've always been civil, I will bitch about her to Charlotte and I know that she would take everything we say to our graves
Quote from: Nicole on October 31, 2014, 07:43:52 PM
I've always been civil, I will bitch about her to Charlotte and I know that she would take everything we say to our graves
I'm not saying you are or won't be. But as was said earlier sometimes it's like "office politics from the comfort of your living room."
Sometimes the only way to deal is to yell at someone who understands won't judge and will keep your secret. Charlotte seems like a good candidate
Sounds like a no win situation to me. She clearly doesn't like you for reasons stated above (jealous of your looks or thinks you are after her guy, or maybe shes just a disagreeable person). She sounds very passive aggressive.
I see two options:
1. Confront her nicely ("Say, I've noticed from some things you've said and some things you've done that you don't seem to like me very much, and I was wondering what I did and what I could do to fix it?"). That puts it out there front and center, and she can either address it or she can deny it, and if she denies it I'll bet she will probably keep right on with the nasty stuff.
2. Ignore her, smile a lot, play dumb, and make her really mad that she can't get to you.
I'd do #2 after attempting #1 >:-)
I'll side with Eva Marie on this Nicole, sorry this is happening to you though, but keep in mind that your friend is married to the woman and he will be obligated to put her first regardless of what happens.
Some people just take a dislike to others, there's no need for there to be a reason why. She probably does feel threatened by you because physically you have what she's been unable to get (if she can't do it for her own wedding, it's unlikely it'll ever happen). Because she's lost out to you on that score, she now wants to even it up by cutting you out of contact with Nathan, 'cos now he's hers, so there, nah nah nah nah nah!
What to do? Maybe accept you will not be doing/attending things where she is present; catch up with Nathan on other occasions; maybe, if he knows she's acting the dick but can't/won't get her to modify her behaviour, you'll have to let the friendship slide.
Picking fights with her is unlikely to improve your chances of maintaining the relationship with him.
Well, calling her the b-word isn't a good start. Be the better person. But like a poster above stated, you're a threat. Regardless of what anyone says, including women, many women aren't BFFs with a man. Now, maybe if you both weren't married. But now he's married. I used to have a best male friend, this was pre-HRT, but I have a condition, so I'm not manly or manish, except in pictures and I didn't take care of myself, but she constantly accuse him of being in love with me or something. I think the best plan of action is to try and be friend with both. Try to go out with her one-on-one. Say you've gotten off on the wrong footing and you want to make it up, and if you could go shopping together. Be the better person.
If you weren't invited to the Hen's party (which I assume is the bachellorette party) then clearly there's some issue. It may be time to let go. I don't know, do you date? It could improve things if you were attached. Probably to a man. Lesbians, where I'm from, tend to hang with just other lesbians. If you had a man, then that could really help. Plus, it never hurts to lose yourself in love...jk it always hurts.
Hope you don't take this the wrong way, but sometimes you just gotta move on...for your own sake. Most women I know, myself included, kloathe cigars, so she mighta took that as an insult. Or weird. Who knows? I think she thinks you're trying to move in on her man. I know if my man had a best female friend, and they hung out a lot, I would get bitchy. I just would.
I've never really had male friend though. The one time I did it was with a friend from childhood, and I think he only did it cause me and his girlfriend became really close. So all his and his friend would hang out and play sports and we'd be talking and playing cards and talking about fashion. His friends hated me. When she went, so did I.
I don't know how male friendships work except from observing. IN America, nowadays, women have taken womanhood to all whole new level, which I think makes it hard for some trans women who haven't had close female friend and don't know howit works. But it sounds like you transitioned really, really, really young. So IDK. I have no idea how things work in the Outback.
I think it's tougher for 30-40 transtioners who aren't into men. People don;t understand it. They just don't. I can only speak for the Mid-Atlantic region of the USA. Unless you're small, feminine, like men, look and sound like a women, getting into the inner circles of hetero women, is tough as nails. Now if you're all of the above, it's easy peasy, cause people believe you should be a woman. Just don'say you're trans, meet a man, and next thing you know, you;re in a limo putting dollars into ripped men's leather pants.
If you're a lesbian, things go much easier, but, like I said, here, lesbians basically and only hang with other dykes. I used to think I'd be one, but I just can't imagine dating a woman, especially after dating a man for a year and letting him F me all the time.
Sounds like Jealousy to me.
Quote from: Joanna Dark on November 01, 2014, 12:29:05 AM
Well, calling her the b-word isn't a good start. Be the better person. But like a poster above stated, you're a threat. Regardless of what anyone says, including women, many women aren't BFFs with a man. Now, maybe if you both weren't married. But now he's married. I used to have a best male friend, this was pre-HRT, but I have a condition, so I'm not manly or manish, except in pictures and I didn't take care of myself, but she constantly accuse him of being in love with me or something. I think the best plan of action is to try and be friend with both. Try to go out with her one-on-one. Say you've gotten off on the wrong footing and you want to make it up, and if you could go shopping together. Be the better person.
I don't see that I'm a threat, we've been friends all these years and not once has there been any sexual tension between us. Its one of the main reasons why we're still good friends.
He's more like a brother to me than a friend, the weird thing is its only been the last 12 months that she's like this.
Quote from: Joanna Dark on November 01, 2014, 12:29:05 AM
If you weren't invited to the Hen's party (which I assume is the bachellorette party) then clearly there's some issue. It may be time to let go. I don't know, do you date? It could improve things if you were attached. Probably to a man. Lesbians, where I'm from, tend to hang with just other lesbians. If you had a man, then that could really help. Plus, it never hurts to lose yourself in love...jk it always hurts.
I won't be giving up on my friendship with him just because of her.
If I did, I would lose a lot of friends. Since they're been together I would say at one point, she has had an issue with every one of my friends, male & female.
Quote from: Joanna Dark on November 01, 2014, 12:29:05 AM
Hope you don't take this the wrong way, but sometimes you just gotta move on...for your own sake. Most women I know, myself included, kloathe cigars, so she mighta took that as an insult. Or weird. Who knows? I think she thinks you're trying to move in on her man. I know if my man had a best female friend, and they hung out a lot, I would get bitchy. I just would.
The cigar thing was because all them years ago he told me that its what he wanted to do when he has a baby, theres nothing more to it.
As for hanging out a lot, years ago we used to go to the pub or a bar together a bit, now we see each other at BBQ's, parties and things like that, every once in a while we'll walk our dogs together at the park.
What I'm not used to is this type of bullying, I went to an all boys school, the bullying I got was being bashed, kicked, pushed around.
Quote from: Nicole on November 01, 2014, 01:39:50 AM
What I'm not used to is this type of bullying, I went to an all boys school, the bullying I got was being bashed, kicked, pushed around.
This is how girl's fight. And I'm just trying to play devil's advocate. You may not see yourself as a threat, but does she see you that way. She's preggers, yes? They just got married? Am I correct? Something like that. And this is in the last 12 months. A lot of women have a vision of marriage, and it generally doesn't include your husband hanging with another girl instead of you.
Even texting. I just think there's a definite element of her not wanting him to have female friends anymore that are close. Like one-on-one friendships. The fact is and it sucks: she is going to win. They're having a baby and he has to side with her. Plus they just got married. There may be more than is going on that you don't know about. Not being invited to that party that every other girl was smacks of female passive agressiveness. I've mainly been friends with women my whole life, except recently, when all i do is hang with my man. He got this roommate and she thought she could kick me out of his life and tried all this bitchy behind the back stabbiness. Guess who he slept with last night?
The girlfriend wins everytime, unless there on thin ice. That's why I'd implore you to try and be above it all and invite her out to shopping? Talk about how you want a man. Or woman? I'm unsure of your sexuality. Maybe you're an ACE. That's cool too. Tell how you hate sex. Defuse the situation cause what I see is her being jealous. Maybe talk to someone she's had an issue with and ask how they solved it? Have you spoke with Nathan about this? What does he say?
All I know is, no matter ho muchit sucks, you're going to have to be the one who does some comprmising because she is having his baby. That trumps all. I hated this female roomate of my BF's and we were going thru rough times. But, I'm the one giving it up and sleeping with him so I have his ear and heart and can say whatever and get away with it, no mattter how bitchy. I always knew I'd win and get this woman out of my life, and I did. She eventually met a man and then we used her apartment for a month and had sex like rabbits and broke her fave chair...by accident. I like it rough.
Like I said. I'm a bitch or ur best friend and prefer to be Besties. But this woman wouldn't budge. So, I played my cards and she played hers, and that was that.
Like I said, not trying to offend, trying to play devil's advocate to help you. Comprmise. Try to show he you have no ill will. Have a girkl's night with her. Youmight discover you to can be BFFs.
I have a similar problem with a family member. I just ignore her, it is jealousy - I just let it eat her away.
Guy's usually use their fists. Girls their minds being much more subtle. It's bulling regardles of the method and is still wrong no matter what the method used. If she has been targeting all of your friends it looks like sadly it is your turn at the moment, and your best option is to grin bear it and talk to Charlotte occasionally. Just make sure you're there when it is her turn.
They are newlyweds and she is expecting a baby. This can make some people slightly possesive. Even if you can never change her attitude of you, try not to let it spoil your relationship with your friend Nathan
I think its hard, but unfortunately there are going to be those kind of people in the world. Thankfully I have ran into very few of them and its unfortunate that your best friend has ended up with one of them.
Have you spoken directly to him to about how you are being treated by her? Or even confront her directly and just ask what her problem is and have it out with her, sometimes it helps to get all your disagreements out in the open so you can work through them.
Like Joanna mentioned, women have a certain "Vision" of what their marriage will be like. For months before my first wife and I were married she often asked "Things aren't going to change after we're married, are they?". A few months after the wedding "We're not acting like married people"
Part of that "not acting" I think were 2 of my best friends. Both female. At one time we all worked together and still got together regularly.
Also - as a former fatty I read a LOT into that "Skinny bitch" remark from the wedding. My wife can eat 3x as I do and not gain a pound. I put on weight just smelling food.
Nicole, allow me to play the devil's advocate here and suggest a few other possibilities because there's always two sides to every story.
Many genetic women are endowed with inherent abilities to sort through the dynamics in the room regardless of how many women there are present and make a personal threat assessment based on instinct.
It may be that your slim figure is being taken as an affront because she knows that it's something that she will never achieve being naturally fuller figured, so there is some jealousy.
Perhaps she's taken note of how attentive you are to her man or he is to you.
It's quite possible that he's mentioned to her something about how attractive you seem to be and what a nice slim figure you possess. Or maybe he just talks about you to her entirely too much.
She may have seen you make eye contact with each other across the room, or a smile exchanged between you both more than once.
It may be that she sees that your style of dress draws men's attention to you more than does her own.
There is a myriad of possibilities as to the reasons that she has targeted you as a threat to her marriage, but my gut feeling is that these may be some of the factors that has set this woman off and she has picked up on the possibility that there is a lot more emotional involvement in your outwardly platonic relationship with her husband than meets the eye. Whether or not any of it is factual makes no difference at this point, it is what she believes and it is unlikely to change.
Nicole, I've seen the scenario you describe play out many times in friend's lives. I've never seen it Not cause any problems and I've never seen it have a happy ending unless something changes. Presently, I work with someone who is experiencing this very same thing, and she is post-op as well. It is not playing out well at all and causes a great deal of friction in his marriage. My friend did talk with his wife, but only to let her know they were only friends and nothing more. My friend (please forgive me for saying this) is a very butch looking girl and her personality is --well -- that of a man (talks about hunting, farming, making tools, sports, guns, absolutely nothing womanly about her at all) so I see why her and the friend get along. One would think, whats the threat or the problem.
BUT, she is still a girl and his wife sees only that. I do not know of any girls (my sisters and I included) who would be accepting of their husband having a girl for a best friend (in most cases, the wife is the best friend, lover, his everything). To be a casual friend, YES, but an opposite sex BEST friend will at times mean you are treading on someone else's marital territory. If you were a man, it might be different. Also, I can bet you are being discussed twixt the two of them -- it is a husband wife thing. By being bitchy to you (unconsciously admitting jealousy of you), she is 'marking' her territory and you keep on coming over it, forcing her to re-mark again. She may not even be aware she is doing it, but the fact of the matter is that she is. funny huh?
Lets reverse the situation and you are now married to him. She is now his best friend and he spends time with her and remarks to you what a great person she is and what a great mother she will one day be. Deep down, its going to bother you on some level. Without knowing it you begin ostracizing her in little ways.
I am not saying you should stop being his friend. Just remember he is now married to his, what I hope, is his 'everything' and that includes his wife being the best friend. Maybe just put some distance between you and him and concentrate on your other friends.
I sure wish the world was more understanding of this scenario. Just my own thoughts for all its worth (you know what they say about opinions). After weighing everyone's input on your dilemma, I hope you come to a logical conclusion you can act upon and gives you the best solution based on the nuances of your situation. Hugs :)
Ok, so an update on this.
After finding out the BBQ was back on again, this time invites went out via text (I didn't know at first), Charlotte (my best friend) told a few that we've been friends with for years that I didn't get an invite, of the 20 people invited, 5 went. We all had lunch, they all turned up at my place without warning.
One of my other male friends was asked by Nathan what happened to everyone, he told him, Nathan cracked it at his wife.
Now, I'm not pissed off that she doesn't want me to see my friend of 20 years, one that there has been no sexual tension between us, we will always be friends (his words) whether she likes it or not, he has many female friends, all that she's had an issue with at same stage over the past 10 years.
What I'm pissed off at is she's trying to turn MY friends against me, not just Nathan, the inviting them to places and leaving me out is what gets me.
I've been told that there were a few digs at me by her too during the day, which I can deal with, but if she thinks she's taking my friends away, she's in for trouble.
I really don't like her.
I'm not going to suggest anything
** bad advice edited out **
That's what I WOULD say... but I won't because it's too f-ed up.
Sorry is that too f-ed up? Good thing I didn't suggest it.
Seriously don't like her...
Screw anyone saying you should have to move on or whatever because of this. He is your friend and she should have to deal with it.
Imagine if it was the other way around and it was some controlling guy trying to bully people into not being friends with his wife and what people would be saying about him in that situation.
If she has a problem with it she should talk to her husband and deal with it in an adult way. Not act like a highschooler having private parties you are not invited to.
PS Kova yes that is messed up, and to be frank, a stupid idea.
I would never do that to anyone, messing with her head would make me look like the bad guy.
The male friend who went yesterday & I were talking this morning, one of the digs he said was about me not working, he said she asked 3 times if I had found a job already.
Now, heres the story why I'm "not working".
I own the house I live in outright, I also own outright the house that I rent out for $550 a week.
I also own my car outright, my bills are up to date, and after selling up my business earlier this year I wanted to take a break, mind you I'm in my 30's and have worked full time since leaving uni, one of the jobs I had was at a major news paper and I was on call all the time.
I now work when I want to, doing a photo shoot here or there when I want to, I also have 2 girls, both at uni who are working for me when jobs come in, this is so I don't have to work and they can gain experience.
For the first time in my life I'm enjoying taking a break, the hours I've worked in the last 10 or so years got me so stressed out, now its time to enjoy.
Quote from: Nicole on November 02, 2014, 07:54:29 PM
I would never do that to anyone, messing with her head would make me look like the bad guy.
The male friend who went yesterday & I were talking this morning, one of the digs he said was about me not working, he said she asked 3 times if I had found a job already.
Now, heres the story why I'm "not working".
I own the house I live in outright, I also own outright the house that I rent out for $550 a week.
I also own my car outright, my bills are up to date, and after selling up my business earlier this year I wanted to take a break, mind you I'm in my 30's and have worked full time since leaving uni, one of the jobs I had was at a major news paper and I was on call all the time.
I now work when I want to, doing a photo shoot here or there when I want to, I also have 2 girls, both at uni who are working for me when jobs come in, this is so I don't have to work and they can gain experience.
For the first time in my life I'm enjoying taking a break, the hours I've worked in the last 10 or so years got me so stressed out, now its time to enjoy.
Sounds like you have a sharp business head on your shoulders Nicole, by all means take your time and smell the roses sweetheart, you've earned it and deserve it. Gee I hate drama, I wouldn't do well in your same situation, my hat's off to you!
Quote from: Nicole on November 02, 2014, 07:54:29 PM
I would never do that to anyone, messing with her head would make me look like the bad guy.
Yeah, sorry for the bad advice. Ive had a very bad personal day and im in three bottles of wine, seven mixed drinks and three shots. But im kind of sobering up and I just really don't like her... It really lights my fire when people pick on others for no good reason. I'm biting my tongue but cheering you on from the sidelines.
Some women do not believe in males having female friends. Try to reverse the situation. I kinda understand it, so you can be a potential threat to her. It is her ignorance that makes her seem jealous. Maybe you could say to her that you aren't after the guy, it might help.
Ok, again an update
I invited them over for dinner this friday.
I'm going to lay on the table everything, I know Nathan will see my point of view, whether she understands, we'll see.
This happened to my wife and me back in 2005. I was self identified as MtF at the time and had several MtF friends, one became quite obsessed with me though I didn't see it that way, however in time an emotional connection developed and we became besties. One evening the gal showed up for dinner and told my wife that she just couldn't live without me, she had gradually inserted herself into our lives and became a wedge that was intent on destroying our marriage, as if my own transgender stuff wasn't already problematic enough! My spouse prevailed rather gracefully and the other woman left thinking my spouse was a bitch. We ended up in marriage counseling for a few short uncomfortable sessions where I had to admit that I had been rather dull of wit concerning the dynamics of what had been unfolding all along.
As an afterthought I have to admit to preferring female relationships and was drawn in by a lot of flattery in the first place by someone who traveled the length of the continent just to be close to me, so I inadvertently put my relationship with my spouse on the back burner for awhile. So Nicole, even though I understand how you feel about your friend, I can assure you that your dinner party is destined to bring the bottom up very quickly for your friend as well as yourself if the woman even responds to your invitation. I guarantee that no matter how polite and civil you try to be that it won't be pretty or end well. You would be so much the wiser to back off like some of the other women here have suggested as you'll have a better chance of maintaining an occasional casual friendship with the fellow rather than creating WWIII in his personal relationship.
Bitches be trippin. ;D
Good luck, Nicole. I don't know what the best way to handle this would be, so I'll just hope for the best from the sidelines.
OK, this is just a suggestion but your friend that you have been friends with for 20 years, is there anyway that you can be friends with him and his wife? Generally and this is in no way a guy or a girl thing, but people that are in relationships can be pretty protective of their relationship when their mates friend is of the opposite gender of the friend in question. And yeah but it is a fact that women can be bitches and men can be asses if they feel that their relationship is threatened. I have friends that are couples and there are boundaries that I would never cross with either of them. Like going out, go out with both. Give the same amount of attention to both equally. I don't know if it is a possibility but just a thought. :-\
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What can I do, I'm getting to the point where I'm going to let her have it.
She's very unlikely to change. Hang out with just Nathan if he's up for it, and don't discuss her issues with him. All he can do is say no, if so he's now a former friend. Isn't marriage just grand? :laugh:
Just read through all this and realize there's still a day or so before the dinner you mentioned, so I wanted to give some advice based on conflict resolution I've done in the past. And based on the fact that honesty and putting the cards on the table may not have the result desired.
Basically, I agree extensively with a lot of what Joanna said earlier. But let me get to that in a bit.
Something to keep in mind is that within our own narratives, it's always extremely easy to see our own perspective in things, and ascribe honor and reason and logic to everything we do. Because with the right point of view, there is a lot of honor in what is happening from both sides. In your case, you are fighting for not only his friendship at this point, but also for the right to keep on interacting with all your other mutual friends. In her case, she may see her actions as the correct way to ensure that her husband's commitment is to his family. And that complicates things in the sense that whatever you do with whatever intention, in her narrative she's still the one who is right.
Yes, admittedly it is clear that a lot of what she has done is extremely wrong, but we don't know why she chose to behave in such a way. Passive aggressiveness sometimes is not necessarily done out of bitchiness, but maybe it could just be fear of confronting a fear or an insecurity in a situation.
Maybe she has particular insecurities from growing up. For all we know she lost someone before due to not having the right "build." Maybe one of her previous relationships or friendships ended because of a friend being preferred over her.
Like for example, I have had many situations in the past where I'm in a committed relationship, and when my partner(s) would travel and make friends, I'd encourage them to have fun and be ok with them meeting people ... then they'd come back and leave me due to having done stuff with someone else and having figured they wanted something different in life. Nothing I can blame them for, since that stuff happens, but it does lead now to the point where any time a lover tells me they'll be away in a different city or country for long and they tell me about hanging out with new people or going to parties, I pretty much go into panic attacks. Anytime someone I love tells me they can't talk to me or be around because they'll be doing something with this other cool person they met, it brings back the scar and destroys me completely. And I'm sure it'll take a lot before I'd be completely secure with a husband wanting to spend time with a female friend and share inside jokes and moments with her and not me. Because even with trust and love, those fears and traumas still exist deeply inside me.
We don't know what fears may control her in such a way. And who knows? Maybe she doesn't know either. Maybe at one point in that past year she saw something in you, or he said something about you, that triggered a fear or insecurity, and that leads her to try and find ways to justify to herself that negative perception of you. It could be why she looks for ways to take jabs at you even if they make no sense. To the point where it seems she finds justification in doing her best to push you away from their life.
Now, back to what Joanna said, I think there is wisdom in trying to change the perspective she may have of you by creating a different image of yourself to her.
Right now, you're the girl who wants to spend time with her husband, and gives him meaningful gifts that could remind her you share bonds with him she can't compete with, and who has looks she can't attain.
I'm afraid that if you bring up the issue with the idea to solve it, that she will instead internalize completely the fact that you really do see this as a competition and are clearly marking your territory. And won't give him up. In short, you could be confirming her fears and insecurities and giving her a solid reason to hate you. Not only that, but it's an issue that can be even more explosive given she is pregnant as well. I'd feel horrible if my husband and future father of my child sided with his female friend and not with me (because given her attitude she's probably going to be seeing this as a competition between two sides.) Can you imagine how that would feel?
And that's the other thing. You're putting your friend in a situation where he is forced to make a decision that will inevitably betray the expectations of one of two people he really cares about. You're putting him in a situation in which he can only lose, because if he agrees with you then he'll be making his pregnant wife into the bad one in the story and hurting her in the process, and if he sides with her after you confront the situation with the adamant desire to keep him ... well, I'm sure you would be hurt too, no?
It's a situation that handled wrong will inevitably hurt someone in some way, potentially everyone since it puts your friendship(s) at risk, puts his friendships at risk, puts her safety of mind at risk, and could potentially put a wedge in their marriage given that it's clear that there's already been moments of him getting angry at her over you. That's waaay too many relationships on the line to risk.
If I were you:
1. I would go with what joanna said: engage her in a way that will make it difficult for her to perceive you as someone to fear. Work at taking away any reason she may have for hating you.
2. I'd use the dinner as an excuse to offer or ask for a moment of just you and her. You know, like offer to go with her one afternoon to shop for baby clothes or a stroller or something to treat her and congratulate her for the baby (since the cigar is the sort of congratulation gift that was just for your friend, it could be nice to acknowledge her part in it too, the fact it's not just your friend having a baby but her too.)
It's also important you interact with her in a context that doesn't force you to compete for your friend's attention or time.
3. Ask her for help or advice with something meaningful. If two people with power clash it's just a mess, but asking for help puts you in a position where it'll be harder for her to see you as a threat or danger, and that could mollify her a bit.
And in the case she's still "bitchy" after being asked for help/a favor/advice, it's harder for her not to look like the jerk of the story. So even if her inclination is to be that way just because, all she can do is back down a bit or look like an awful person.
4. A bit more difficult, but drop a line or a hint somewhere about how you envy or admire something about her, in particular her looks since that seems to be a possible trigger. If it's jealousy about your looks, she'll feel better if she knows you find her to have something you don't have. Even if she hates you, she may take you less seriously as a threat if she has that knowledge and stop being so aggressively against the idea of you.
Of course, this is all very difficult because, by all means, the main desire here from anyone is to want to curse at her extensively, put the foot down, and expose her for the passive aggressive bully she has been. You know, also known and sweet sweet justice.
But putting a scared, insecure bully against a wall will just make them even more defensive and entitled, and no one wants that. So I would really really recommend trying to ease your position a bit and consider her point of view as much as humanly possible, since you are in the position of taking control of the situation and taking the higher road in which everyone's happiness is considered.
I hope I was able to help in some way, even if just to help put forth another perspective of the situation out there.
Best of luck at your dinner Nicole, and I wish you a lot of strength and wisdom to make the right decision in such a difficult situation. Hope everything works out well!
WOW WOW WOW what a bitch!!!!!!
So they came over for dinner last night, they live about 5km away and I said to them bring their dog (about 6 months old & mines 5).
I ordered cause it was 33˚ and they were fine, I also paid which I said is only fair.
The dogs got on well, which they do, mine if she's had enough will leave and put herself to bed, she does that with people, kids and other dogs.
When my baby had enough she left, the little comments that mines a little bitch cause hers just wanted to play and if I knew mine was going to do that, why did I say to bring the dog.
Anyway, she bitched all night about the food, which mind you I gave her the 100% choice of.
Later in the night Nathan went to the loo, so I asked her why is she being like this to me.
The reply:
She hates girls that have it so easy all their life.
I went off, I said if she had to go through half the stuff I had to go through she would have died a long time ago, I've been friends with Nathan a long time, I'm always going to be friends with him whether she likes it or not, because my friends are his friends, she needs to get used to it that he has female friends in his life, all that love him. Get used to it, get over it or move on.
At this point Nathan comes out and I thought "oh ->-bleeped-<-" but he defended me and said that he told her to stop being such a bitch to me, his friends are going to pick me over him if you start driving her away, just like last weekend.
They left about 5 minutes later, but he sent me a text saying sorry that she's being such a bitch to me, he's told her a few times to stop it and hopefully now she'll "get it".
Now that is some top tier dramatic irony.
At least it is all in the open though huh.
I don't even think thats the real issue with her as well.
She knows my dad died before I was born, she knew I got bullied at school.
Charlotte said to me at the races on Thursday that some girls are just bitches, and when she was doing it to her she came so close to slapping her at one stage, she'll move on to a next target once she knows you're not weak.
She also thinks she wants to be the queen bee in our group, but thats the best thing about our group, theres none at all.
A few of my other friends cannot stand her, male & female, one of my friends was over at their house the night of the 2008 100m mens final. There were about 10 people who went to high school with nathan there, about 20 minutes before the final she went to their bedroom, called Nathan and demanded everyone get out, leaving them with no where to watch the final. All because they were talking about their school days and she wasn't involved. Ever since then this guy has hated her, he refused to go to their wedding, but came to Thailand for the fun parts.
Only a very few of my friends know that I'm TG. I moved from Hobart to Melbourne not long after coming out and went full time from the plane landing.
I'm tiny and always have been, so that helped a lot, the friends in my life I met all after starting full time.
Last night I really wanted to say everything, but one I knew she would be the first to tell everyone, and two) she would use it against me, boy I'm just glad that he can leave if he wants to, I really feel sorry for their kid.
Quote from: Hanazono on November 07, 2014, 05:15:01 PM
I think this nasty woman will do anything. cis girls... tsktsk
It seems like to me that she'll do anything including breaking up a strong group of friends to be the alpha female in the group, even if that group doesn't have an alpha person
*hugs*
Sorry you have to put up with her, Nicole. She sounds awful. And I also feel sorry for Nathan, having to live with her.
Nicole, I owe you an apology for thinking that perhaps you were the problem. It had been that way before in my own experience so I must have been a bit jaded as I read your initial account. Even my cis spouse was following this drama and we couldn't wait to find out how the dinner party went as we speculated about what was really behind all of this as we mentally worked through various kinds of potential relationship dynamics. My hat is off to you in how you handled it, we can only wonder how long Nathan is going to put up with that kind of behavior.
Initially I had wondered how he wound up married to her when you were obviously single and the two of you had such an amicable relationship. Now in retrospect knowing what I know had I been in Nathan's shoes you would have been my first choice, but then that's just me, I like women and especially intelligent, petite women who can,knock down a few drinks in mixed company and be comfortable in that environment. Good going Lady, you have all my respect and admiration!
Quote from: Shantel on November 07, 2014, 06:38:45 PM
Nicole, I owe you an apology for thinking that perhaps you were the problem. It had been that way before in my own experience so I must have been a bit jaded as I read your initial account. Even my cis spouse was following this drama and we couldn't wait to find out how the dinner party went as we speculated about what was really behind all of this as we mentally worked through various kinds of potential relationship dynamics. My hat is off to you in how you handled it, we can only wonder how long Nathan is going to put up with that kind of behavior.
Initially I had wondered how he wound up married to her when you were obviously single and the two of you had such an amicable relationship. Now in retrospect knowing what I know had I been in Nathan's shoes you would have been my first choice, but then that's just me, I like women and especially intelligent, petite women who can,knock down a few drinks in mixed company and be comfortable in that environment. Good going Lady, you have all my respect and admiration!
I knew I had done or said nothing to or about her, I'm not that type of person and none of my friends would have said I did.
As for how he ended up with her.
Remember about 10 years back there was a movie with 4 guys having a bet on who will get married last?
One of the guys had never had regular sex and they said the first girl who gives him regular sex he'll end up marrying because he was in his late 20's.
That movie sums him up pretty well.
Up until this girl, I had only ever seen or heard of him being with very few girls, this girl is his first relationship and just like the movie, they settled down very quick.
Well thats my theory on it any way
Quote from: Nicole on November 07, 2014, 03:43:34 PM
WOW WOW WOW what a bitch!!!!!!
So they came over for dinner last night, they live about 5km away and I said to them bring their dog (about 6 months old & mines 5).
I ordered cause it was 33˚ and they were fine, I also paid which I said is only fair.
The dogs got on well, which they do, mine if she's had enough will leave and put herself to bed, she does that with people, kids and other dogs.
When my baby had enough she left, the little comments that mines a little bitch cause hers just wanted to play and if I knew mine was going to do that, why did I say to bring the dog.
Anyway, she bitched all night about the food, which mind you I gave her the 100% choice of.
Later in the night Nathan went to the loo, so I asked her why is she being like this to me.
The reply:
She hates girls that have it so easy all their life.
I went off, I said if she had to go through half the stuff I had to go through she would have died a long time ago, I've been friends with Nathan a long time, I'm always going to be friends with him whether she likes it or not, because my friends are his friends, she needs to get used to it that he has female friends in his life, all that love him. Get used to it, get over it or move on.
At this point Nathan comes out and I thought "oh ->-bleeped-<-" but he defended me and said that he told her to stop being such a bitch to me, his friends are going to pick me over him if you start driving her away, just like last weekend.
They left about 5 minutes later, but he sent me a text saying sorry that she's being such a bitch to me, he's told her a few times to stop it and hopefully now she'll "get it".
OK so she really seems like a real bitch. Sorry for even suggesting what I did earlier. I am a bitch and not even that much of a bitch.
Let him deal with it. Either it will be a catastrophy because no man will take that kind of crap forever especially when he is losing friends, even friends that are girls, over her bitchiness.
But on the other hand... Never mind. I won't even suggest it openly and or just let it run its course. Eventually he will grab something and remember he is a man and don;t have to deal with a woman like that, married or not to her.
Quote from: Nicole on November 07, 2014, 07:13:07 PM
I knew I had done or said nothing to or about her, I'm not that type of person and none of my friends would have said I did.
As for how he ended up with her.
Remember about 10 years back there was a movie with 4 guys having a bet on who will get married last?
One of the guys had never had regular sex and they said the first girl who gives him regular sex he'll end up marrying because he was in his late 20's.
That movie sums him up pretty well.
Up until this girl, I had only ever seen or heard of him being with very few girls, this girl is his first relationship and just like the movie, they settled down very quick.
Well thats my theory on it any way
That is a most interesting observation because once we determined that you were not in fact the culprit after all then we surmised that scenario was the root of the problem before reading your theory here. I can't tell you how many times I've seen this same story played out, the handsome young son of my neighbor was extremely shy and had no sexual experience when this cute little vamp with one baby by another tryst pulled him up between her thighs and he's stuck with a wife and two babies and he's still just a kid himself with zero life experience, this girl is a bitch toward his parents and siblings and extremely controlling. Those kinds of marriages based on sex alone don't usually last long which brings to mind BB King's song "The thrill is gone!" My money is on the probability that you and the other ladies will get your boy back and all will be well in Oz.
So Sunday.
His wife had her baby shower.
At about midday I get a text from Nathan, "what ya doing" I said recovering and at home, next thing I know he's at my door, all his friends were at the shower, working or busy doing other things.
It was like the old days, we sat around listening to music, talking rubbish, having a few drinks.
Was a good little afternoon and she even came and picked him up, said hi and she seemed to be talking to me, I even gave her a baby shower gift.
I'm just worried that she might turn on something else.
Maybe, I'm not sure though, I've sworn off dating for a while, had a really bad break up that resulted in the guy facing jail (long story, but he never hit me though).
Nathan and I had a good chat the other day, wasn't what took up all of the time, but he basically said sorry, he had told her to lay off me and that everyone will take my side if push came.
They had it out when they got home and explained a few things about my past, he as far as I know doesn't know I'm trans, but said that school was hell for me, I lost my father before I was born and I worked harder than anyone he's known to get to where I am.
So I'm pretty sure for now it's sorted, but that could be me just hoping, she was nicer when she picked him up, but I did have gift in hand.
The best.
Down to earth, respectful, level headed and fun.
Doesn't look at any of my friends or I as women, just as friends and we all know he can be counted on.
She obviously feels threatened. Eff that bitch. I'd be so rude to her honestly lol Idk why you've put up with it.
I always try, well at least with people I know.
The reasons I put up with it is I love my friend, I want to stay friends and it's sad that yes he has this wife that treats people this way, but the good of him outweighs her
I had to post an update here on this.
So this girl is still being bitchy, not just to me.
Just before xmas they had their baby, born 10 weeks early and it was a battle, we all chipped in and helped out little Rose is going well.
A few weeks ago there was a bit of a dig at me when they got baby photos done, knowing I was a photographer she posted "My wonderful friend, the best photographer I know". I let it go and just liked the photos she put on Facebook.
Last weekend she was going on and on about them, her friend was there and she was telling everyone how great a photographer she was, again I was letting it go. UNTIL!
She came out and said "I've seen Nicoles work, its not great and thats why we didn't ask her"
My reply was "well, by the looks of it you went with a weekend warrior who wouldn't know contrast if it slapped her in the face, oh, and you couldn't afford me".
I know I shouldn't have bit, but a few of my friends were saying to me that it was about time.
Then last night.
My best friend is getting married, they're doing it tough because her husband to be lost his job.
Anyway they found their venue for their wedding and I've helped them with payments.
Anyway she's been going on and on about having a wedding overseas like they did, Charlotte keeps saying that she wouldn't do that to family & friends and such. She keeps going on about how all her friends loved it and last night it she was baiting Charlotte over it when Charlotte had enough and said "TBH, other than your family, I wouldn't be saying YOUR friends loved it, bit hard to enjoy an overseas wedding from Melbourne".
It then clicked to a few of us that other than her family, she had no guests at the wedding and of the 50 people there, she had 5 people.