Was out late the other night and caught a 10.30 train home. Three young men I'd pegged as possible trouble on the platform got on my carriage (even though I'd moved down the platform earlier to prevent just that happening). So before I sat down I moved to the next carriage and sat, and guess what, they then came into my carriage and just hung around talking. That felt a bit creepy, but as there were a couple of other people around I decided I felt safe enough not to move.
They actually didn't do much except stand around looking at their phones and occasionally exchange stunted conversation with each other. They never engaged with me but from what I could hear they were talking about trans gender people and cross dressing and Pricilla Queen of the Desert (ugh) and how freaky all that was. Like I say, they didn't engage with me, they weren't directing that at me and weren't even looking at me so I don't know whether they were trying to bait me using massively passive aggressive techniques or not. I wouldn't credit them with that much intelligence to be honest and I'm pretty sure they didn't realise there was a trans person sitting three feet from them...
But it sure was uncomfortable - like I say, there were others in the carriage so I felt safe enough anyway. Fortunately they got off at an earlier stop. I felt aggravated because I wanted to say something to them when they were bagging out trans women but decided that would be very unwise. Had they been specifically targeting someone else on the train it might have been a different matter but since they were just having an ignorant conversation amongst themselves I wasn't going to get involved.
How would you have acted?
Same as you. I would have been very nervous but would not have engaged them at all. Possibly tried to get a photo of them in case something happened.
Glad you are safe.
Hugs
I would have done the same Grace. You need to pick and chose your battles carefully and 10:30 at night on a train with unknown guys that you had already pegged as trouble definitely isn't the time or the place. Better safe than sorry.
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Quote from: Cindy on November 06, 2014, 02:21:23 PM
Same as you. I would have been very nervous but would not have engaged them at all. Possibly tried to get a photo of them in case something happened.
Glad you are safe.
Hugs
I think if they saw you trying to get a photo, it would likely create a bad situation where they may well want to get it from you. So anyone that goes that way, definitely be careful doing stuff like that.
I would have taken out my phone, and made a fake call, talking to some imaginary listener about how some people can be incredibly ignorant about things, and talk about stuff they knew nothing about. This would have included lots of eye rolling and tutting.
But then I can be very gob->-bleeped-<-ey sometimes, and don't always do the best thing, lol. So yeah, don't do that.
Like you would of kept quiet. One eye on them, one eye on the rest of the carraige to make sure I didn't end up alone. Also I would keep an eye on the coming and going of the people into the train, and be prepared to leave a stop or two earlier. I've even gotten off a train walked down the platform a bit then hopped back on.
It is sad but at that time of night you have to look after yourself first and pick your battles carefully
I would handle it the same way you did Grace. There's no sense getting into an argument with people that are that ignorant. You really do need to pick your fights. I'm glad everything came out okay for you hon. Stay safe, sweetie. May the angels always look upon you and help guide you in your journey.
Hugs,
Melissa Ann
Quote from: Sephirah on November 06, 2014, 02:28:59 PM
But then I can be very gob->-bleeped-<-ey sometimes, and don't always do the best thing, lol. So yeah, don't do that.
Lol, OK! ;D
Quote from: immortal gypsy on November 06, 2014, 02:30:23 PM
I've even gotten off a train walked down the platform a bit then hopped back on.
I've done that too, usually to get away from annoying phone conversations, screaming babies or yobs.
I would do what I usually do... not bother with them but remain situationally aware and planning an escape route, or if I'm cornered, self defense options.
I definitely wouldn't have engaged them without backup, and might have moved to another car with more potential witnesses.
A couple of thoughts- 1) Methinks someone did protest too much. Fifty bucks says one of them secretly likes to wear women's clothes. 2) At least it was three guys, not four or more. That's usually what tips the dynamic into an unpredictable herd mentality. If one of the three has any sense at all, the odds of violence are greatly diminished. Had I seen four guys and one began to trash transgender people, I would have got myself out of there as fast as possible.
Yobs, gob->-bleeped-<-ey, I'm going to have to learn how to speak.......well, what the hell language are you speaking in this thread anyway? :D
Defiantly a tough situation sounds like you did the right thing especially being out numbered. Glad your ok. Not being there I can't say what I would have done.
Quote from: Jill F on November 06, 2014, 03:04:36 PM
1) Methinks someone did protest too much. Fifty bucks says one of them secretly likes to wear women's clothes.
Crossed my mind too. And I know some trans people test the waters with their friends by bringing up the subject.
Quote from: Devlyn Marie on November 06, 2014, 03:12:01 PM
Yobs, gob->-bleeped-<-ey, I'm going to have to learn how to speak.......well, what the hell language are you speaking in this thread anyway? :D
I can't even think what the US version of "yob/yobbo" might be, an uncouth person who is usually very loud, very stupid and very drunk at sporting events but can be found elsewhere too. :D
You acted the right way, being sure not to be alone and not trying to draw attention. As you say maybe they weren't even talking about you so it's better not giving them a reason to.
I can't really say what I would have do at your place. I'm always in trouble because I can't shut my mouth so...
I think you should have gone up to them and punched one of them in the neck! :)
Look at it as a compliment. You passed in front of ignorant jerks
while they were making fun of trans people. That deserves to go in the "you know you pass when..." thread.
Quote from: Ms Grace on November 06, 2014, 03:16:20 PM
I can't even think what the US version of "yob/yobbo" might be, an uncouth person who is usually very loud, very stupid and very drunk at sporting events but can be found elsewhere too. :D
Definitely a douchebag.
Unless they're being openly abusive then I'd try to mind my own business, people like that usually can't be convinced to give up their ignorance and when confronted about it are often the types that wouldn't think twice about beating up a lady on a train. If they started a confrontation, then that's when I'd be glad for the 6 years of MMA I've been doing :P
You did everything right Grace. I have avoided certain stops because people that could be a problem. As much as part of me would have wanted to speak up, I still wouldn't have.
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Quote from: Ms Grace on November 06, 2014, 03:16:20 PM
Crossed my mind too. And I know some trans people test the waters with their friends by bringing up the subject.
I can't even think what the US version of "yob/yobbo" might be, an uncouth person who is usually very loud, very stupid and very drunk at sporting events but can be found elsewhere too. :D
'Murican! LOL! Some are quite proud of themselves, too.
Yes I would have done the same thing as you. I say this now cause I have time to think, but a good idea would be to make a call to a friend while you were on the train and if your phone does video chat you could have reversed the camera so the other end could see. Or just start recording video or even just audio just in case something happened. But it would have to be done in a discreet way. Like I said being put in that situation it would be hard to think of things that would have been best to do. Seeing that it worked out OK. What you did at the time was the correct thing to do.
The amount of times I've moved away from potential trouble makers on the train only for them to move right into my carriage for some reason, it's like I should just stay where I am. >.> Anyway, glad you're safe. I think it was a good choice not to say anything, some people are just too ignorant so trying to engage them wouldn't of really helped at all.
I always sit in the car with the most people and if there's a conductor or some other employee of the train as close as possible , I don't know how your trains are set up though. I was kick in the back of the head going to work once. I worked the over night shift and even having a few other passengers in the car didn't stop the person, I think his plan was to knock me out and god knows what else, but luckily I got a thick skull
You did good, Grace.
I would have been terrified and shaking. Probably would have taken out my phone and dialed all but the last number to emergency.
The weird thing was that they weren't even looking at me so I don't know if they were being incredibly passive aggressive (unlikely!) or it was a bizarre coincidence. I guess it's the first time I've come across a group of people actively discussing trans people in a derogatory way. All I could do was shake my head and hope they didn't realise I was sitting "nonchalantly" three feet from them. :-\
Sorry to say Grace, that is one situation I'd avoid entirely. And I suggest you do too.
Even with those 'protection officers' in Melbourne and Sydney, public transport after 8pm or so is just abhorrent. Maybe I would go with a group with friends, but otherwise absolutely not. I've seen too many terrible things on trains at night pre transition. Heck, it can be even be worrisome on public transport at 6am.
Sadly sometimes I have no choice - it's either that or go home at 5pm and stay indoors as trains and buses (and bummed lifts) are my only way around.
Late at night is weird because you never really know who's about - often it's pretty quiet but yeah, it's good to stay away from those you gauge are "trouble".
There's not a lot you can do on your own in that sort of situation other than keep your wits about you. Some people just like to hang around, talk loudly and see who they can offend. There's no real skills required to be a full time "piece of work" - just a strange "joy" in making others miserable. These people are best avoided at all costs.
You did well and kept your cool.
I think I would have done the same thing. Definetly need to pick your battles and ensure you have an adequate arsenal to fight them too. Before I came out I would go to a gay bar with my brother and his bf who works in politics. Let's say he has strong labor views and would speak up often about social justice matters. Outside of the gay bar it got us into all sorts of trouble and me and my brother were always left to clean up the mess. So I'm thinking that back then my muscle was a little more, how should we say, strong! Now I wouldn't like to find myself in any sort of altercation with men, I would get eaten alive.